Splining Carvel Planked Hull
Vic
plank, oregon over jarrah, launched 1949.
.....considering splining the seams and sheathing the hull as a possible
alternative to re-caulking.
I've seen one example which has yet to be re-launched .....seams routed to
1/8", splines epoxied in place and the hull then sheathed in Dynel cloth.
Appearance is excellent, as the epoxied Dynel is almost clear, allowing the
wood underneath to be seen.
Upside appears to be less maintenance, totally dry boat and increased hull
strength.
Downside..... not traditional.....and ???
Cost is not a major consideration.
Would appreciate any input
Thanks
--
vic johnson
Fremantle, Western Australia
Seamanship, like any other form of skill, is an art and cannot
be pursued at odd times as a secondary occupation;
on the contrary, no other work may be subordinated to it.
THUCYDIDES, Book I: CXLIII
M.H. Sprang
glass and epoxy, or even caulked with epoxy, because the planking 'works'
too much and the epoxy will just break from the splines.
All vendors of epoxy and epoxy coatings tell you NOT to apply it onto these
kind of hulls.
Meindert
Vic <sail...@bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:p4HO6.9074$hV3....@newsfeeds.bigpond.com...
P.C.
Vic skrev i meddelelsen ...
>.....considering splining the seams and sheathing the hull as a possible
>alternative to re-caulking.
This is a very good idear ; you get a good hand held router ,---- find out why
you allway's need the support on the right side when you move such one
forwerts, ----- and then you place support guides parralell to the seames , so
the router bit route out room for splines of softer wood ,that you seal with
epoxy.
It's your chouce if you run the splines right tru ,or leave a millimeter or two
,but as I done this kind of repair on several dried out hulls that othervise was
just wrecks , ------- I know that this procedure make a boat as strong as new
build.
---------------- This is the _sideeffect_ of splining a wooden hull ; where the
hull before was slappy and would move ,the splines when expanded ,make the hull
structure very stiff and strong ; just like a new build boat where the wood have
expanded.
Still it can be a hard job ,and need to be well prepared ,but as it's a well
known method that saved a lot of old wooden boats ,you proberly get last minuts
advise here in this groupe ,-------- have some photo's somewhere that show how
to save a boat that been on land for 15 years with halve inch open seames.
Have a nice day.
Per Corell
P.C.
P.C. skrev i meddelelsen <9efu91$b0r$1...@news.inet.tele.dk>...
>Hi.
>This is a very good idear ; you get a good hand held router ,---- find out why
>you allway's need the support on the right side when you move such one
>forwerts,
Sorry my bad english "Right" side is left side when you move a router along a
support guide ,as the "drill" will allways like a propellor on a boat "push" to
one side ,depending what way around the drill/propellor run.
Anyone who know how to navigate a heavy one propellor fishing boat with turneble
blades know how to make a ship go sideverts ------ or why to keep a cirtain
angle toverds the key , ------ then reverse ,and the boat is along sidt the key.
With a router it is a _must_ to know this effect as othervise you can _not_ make
it cut exactly where you want ;))
Have anice day.
P.C.
( sorry I have to bring it again ,but if any danisk people read this groupe
then look at ;
http://w1.1396.telia.com/~u139600113/efterlysning/efterlysning.jpg
This small pearl was stolen two day's ago ,if you se it or know about is ,please
mail me ).
Ian Kentish
forever stay there .........if this ship requires these desperate measures
to remain afloat , better you leave her where she lies , dead on the
forshore .
If you persist , better you go hide when you pass her to another lest news
comes that cripples your conscience .
Ian Kentish . Bendigo . Australia .
P.C.
Ian Kentish skrev i meddelelsen <3b0b...@nap-ns1.netconnect.net.au>...
>I think you should both get into the outdoor toilet building business and
>forever stay there
Acturly the method was develobed in australia for building wooden vessels fast
and safe.
This way you can dry the planking while building the boat ,and I know that
danish ships authorities accept the method.
Anyway I don't understand your comment ; I been doing this sort of repair many
times, making a fully equipped but kiln dry hull into a hull as good as new
,saving a boat that would never go into the water without this repair covering
the intire hull. --------- but ok guess that's becaurse Im'e a boatbuilder ;))
Have a nice day.
Vic
Not trolling are we Ian?
Outdoor toilets??? Fair go mate,.... backyard dunnies is the vernacular
.....And I believe it's foreshore rather than forshore (for sure) :)
Seriously, it is a well tried method of improving the integrity of a carvel
planked hull, since the advent of modern adhesives and their
use.......notably the West System pioneered by the Geogeon Brothers.
--
vic johnson
Fremantle, Western Australia
Seamanship, like any other form of skill, is an art and cannot
be pursued at odd times as a secondary occupation;
on the contrary, no other work may be subordinated to it.
THUCYDIDES, Book I: CXLIII
Ian Kentish <iand...@netcon.net.au> wrote in message
news:3b0b...@nap-ns1.netconnect.net.au...
Scott Downey
understood this. Does the wood have the sap washed out of it by being
constantly in the water?
When a carvel planked boat is brand new, are the seams tight or do the
builders allow for expansion by leaving a gap?
"P.C." <per.c...@gentofte.mail.telia.com> wrote in message
news:9efv1q$dk4$1...@news.inet.tele.dk...
Ian Kentish
resuscitated using old thongs glued on with liquid nails , rust holes
blocked with baby carrots trimmed loveingly off at the surface then
canvassed over and sealed taut with acetate dope , exhaust pipe repaired
with beer cans and hose clamps , bonnet and boot held closed with occy
straps , petrol cap replaced with discarded tennis ball , radiator core
leaks blocked off with tile grout ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,I once knew
a lad who was fanatically determined to play the bagpipes , he practiced and
practiced for years and years and one day asked someone he knew well what
they thought , there was an awkward silence ......the unfortunate" someone"
burst out in tears ............I would never do that I would have told the
mad bugger !!
Vic
owned a boat it's kept me so poor that I couldn't afford the repair
materials you mentioned. ........though I've made a list in case I win Lotto
:)
--
vic johnson
Fremantle, Western Australia
Seamanship, like any other form of skill, is an art and cannot
be pursued at odd times as a secondary occupation;
on the contrary, no other work may be subordinated to it.
THUCYDIDES, Book I: CXLIII
Ian Kentish <iand...@netcon.net.au> wrote in message
news:3b0b...@nap-ns1.netconnect.net.au...
Ian Kentish
adhesive , it would also be" not recommended " by it's manufacturer , oregon
is unsuitable timber for any adhesive application .........if you study a
piece of this timber you will discover the clear layers of sap? gum? rosen?
which will melt when heated and sometimes is dissolved by surface finishes
...........I guess it's a bit like trying to glue the bark back onto a
greasy pole .
Sorry about the crook spelling Vic , I hope you don't mind , I will keep a
close eye on your spellitory from now on .
.................................................Regards Ian Kentish .
P.C.
Scott Downey skrev i meddelelsen ...
>Why does the wood shrink up like this and have to be repaired? I never
>understood this. Does the wood have the sap washed out of it by being
>constantly in the water?
It all depend what specie ; Oak that is seasoned and used for boat planks for a
number of years ,and then dried out will _not_ expand to it's original shape.
---------- It kind of "harden" in that sence that you could think that some
agent have been washed out , but anyway as wooden boat builder you have to know
these things and the solution about it.
Now cravel planking get vorn in several way's ,but mainly this is all about how
fastnings work ,and what shape seams are in.
With wooden boats ,you can experience that 99 pct of the construction are
perfect ,but if the gab between the planks are dameaged by for instance someone
who done the caulking wrong destroying the plank edges , you will not be able to
service the hull in a decent way ,and then you often find ,that routering in
splines and replacing fastenings woll produce a hull as good as new.
It's the plank edges that wear first and by cutting away the few bad millimeters
from the seames ,you often find that the wooden boat you thought was in to bad
condision ,would be perfect except from the last one percent that you replace
with the splining method.
-------------- Now nomatter what to do with a recondisioned hull after that
,what you get is a hull as strong as a new build ,then why bother about GRP or
Epoxy , a new wooden hull could last for a hundred years ;))
Have a nice day.
P.C.
Ian Kentish skrev i meddelelsen <3b0b...@nap-ns1.netconnect.net.au>...
>I am just reflecting on what your car might look like .............. tyres
>resuscitated using old thongs glued on with liquid nails
I think it is very important to know with yourselves ,that the impression of
other people often have to do with what we can emagine and what we _want_ to
emagine.
------------- The thing about beer cans are out of _your_ emagination ,and I
find it very strange that you enforce yourself with this kind of view according
to what I describe in this tread.
Please tell me why you ask like this , and beforehand decide that my car is
repaired with old beer cans ; ----- I don't even have a car ,so where do you get
that idear .
Are you just inventing a bad image that you think you can fit me.
Sorry to say so ,but your trolling is not very ballanced. If you realy would
make a fool out of this tread ,you need to step much more gentle , -------- you
tell more about yourself by trolling this manner .
You shuld use at most one line ,and not six or seven on the vision you try to
put on your readers, you shuld have a "goal" like I have ; showing this ,-------
http://w1.1396.telia.com/~u139600113/n-2/10m-c.jpg
or this:
http://w1.1396.telia.com/~u139600113/:))/f-117-f.jpg
Within a discussion ,then you don't get carried away in a discussion.
Please tell me where you found any of these repaired with old beer cans ,man I
even don't drink beer ;))
Have a nice day.
M.H. Sprang
> adhesive
Pardon me? Entire boats are glued with this stuff. With success!
> , it would also be" not recommended " by it's manufacturer , oregon
> is unsuitable timber for any adhesive application
According to several wood-'bibles', Oregon lends itself good for glueing
Meindert
Vic
You're absolutely right, the West System itself is not suitable for my
purpose. My (unclear) point was meant to be that the Gougeon Brothers
pioneered the use of modern adhesives with wooden boats. ......
correspondence with their technical people seems to indicate that they do
have other products that may suit my particular purpose.
On the subject of oregon, I'm unsure....... we test bonded two pieces of
what we believe was oregon, (edge joined) and attempted to break the joint
.....the fracture occurred 3/8'' from the epoxied joint in one of the
oregon(?) pieces. But then, maybe it's not oregon? I don't know...no expert
on timber....reliant on the opinions of others. - (Jarrah also has it's
problems).
The "troll" and spelling jibes were meant to be gentle humour....obviously
hamfisted.....my apologies.
--
vic johnson
Fremantle, Western Australia
Seamanship, like any other form of skill, is an art and cannot
be pursued at odd times as a secondary occupation;
on the contrary, no other work may be subordinated to it.
THUCYDIDES, Book I: CXLIII
Ian Kentish <iand...@netcon.net.au> wrote in message
news:3b0b...@nap-ns1.netconnect.net.au...
Glenn Ashmore
Gougeon does make a line of laminating resins called Proset but the West Systems
line is a general purpose adhesive epoxy.
What is this "oregon" you are referring to? There is no wood listed in any of my
references by that name. There is Oregon Ash, Oregon spruce, Oregon Fir, Oregon
White oak, Oregon walnut but no just plane Oregon.
Ian Kentish wrote:
--
Glenn Ashmore
I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack there
of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Vic
Oregon is a term used here in Oz, (if not elsewhere,) to refer to the North
American Douglas Fir, ...Pseudotsuga menzieslii, (or Pseudotsuga douglasii
according to some)
.....had to look that up......all I knew was that it was an imported timber,
presumably from the USA.
Some still available in up to 40ft lengths here in salvage yards, but VERY
expensive.
---
vic johnson
Fremantle, Western Australia
Seamanship, like any other form of skill, is an art and cannot
be pursued at odd times as a secondary occupation;
on the contrary, no other work may be subordinated to it.
THUCYDIDES, Book I: CXLIII
Glenn Ashmore <gash...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:3B0BCD6B...@mindspring.com...
> snip
> What is this "oregon" you are referring to? There is no wood listed in any
of my
> references by that name. There is Oregon Ash, Oregon spruce, Oregon Fir,
Oregon
> White oak, Oregon walnut but no just plane Oregon.
> snip
Glenn Ashmore
IMHO. Unfortunately 99 44/100% of American made marine ply is fir.
Vic wrote:
> Glenn,
>
> Oregon is a term used here in Oz, (if not elsewhere,) to refer to the North
> American Douglas Fir, ...Pseudotsuga menzieslii, (or Pseudotsuga douglasii
> according to some)
> .....had to look that up......all I knew was that it was an imported timber,
> presumably from the USA.
> Some still available in up to 40ft lengths here in salvage yards, but VERY
> expensive.
--
Craig Kossowski
> I have alway understood that carvel planked hulls cannot be sheathed with
> glass and epoxy, or even caulked with epoxy, because the planking 'works'
> too much and the epoxy will just break from the splines.
> Vic <sail...@bigpond.com> wrote in message
>> 1/8", splines epoxied in place and the hull then sheathed in Dynel cloth.
>> Appearance is excellent, as the epoxied Dynel is almost clear, allowing
Note that Dynel will allow much greater expansion... with epoxy-glass
fibre it is the glass fiber that restricts the amount of flexing, since
dynel stretches more, as does epoxy, it is far more forgiving to this kind
of use. That said, I don't know if it is actually sufficient to the task.
If memory serves, Dynel-epoxy can withstand 3% changes in length without
delamination, much more than epoxy-glass (which is in turn, better than
polyester-glass).
Craig K.
Dave
with the epoxied splines, why would there be so much 'working' or expansion?
Dave
"Craig Kossowski" <cra...@me.queensu.ca> wrote in message
news:9eh569$7pd$2...@knot.queensu.ca...
P.C.
Craig Kossowski skrev i meddelelsen <9eh569$7pd$2...@knot.queensu.ca>...
Dynel-epoxy can withstand 3% changes in length without
>delamination, much more than epoxy-glass (which is in turn, better than
>polyester-glass).
>
>Craig K.
Then what ,another but structured method can make a boat four times stronger and
halve weight, ------ to preserve an old woodenboat ,guess it's better than salt
sea ,but as an old glasfiber specialist told me ; you are a fool to place wood
as anything , there are better materials for that ,from my point of view ,it is
increadeble to be able to afford it ,have the luxure of epoxies ( ironi ).
A new measure unit based on that one car is one car long ,----- from "bounding
box" in CAD terms, ------ mean a 3 dimensional space one unit long , and if you
make a kit of a hey povered jet engine ,you just sneak around nearest
kindergarden , and next afternoon you can pick it up ;))
What do anyone care ,you will not use the measures anyway ,so why have it at all
?
Have a nice day.
Craig Kossowski
> Interested...If the wood is encapsulated in water proof epoxy / Dynel along
> with the epoxied splines, why would there be so much 'working' or expansion?
I'd guess that the working is mechanical, that is, it's flexing from the
stress on the boat, not from moisture changes, assuming the encapulation
is complete.
Craig K.
Craig Kossowski
> Hi.
Hello,
> Craig Kossowski ...
>> Dynel-epoxy can withstand 3% changes in length without
>>delamination, much more than epoxy-glass (which is in turn, better than
>>polyester-glass).
>>Craig K.
> Then what ,another but structured method can make a boat four times stronger and
> halve weight, ------ to preserve an old woodenboat ,guess it's better than salt
> sea ,but as an old glasfiber specialist told me ; you are a fool to place wood
> as anything , there are better materials for that ,from my point of view ,it is
> increadeble to be able to afford it ,have the luxure of epoxies ( ironi ).
I'm not sure what you're getting at here... If you're saying you shouldn't
encapsulate traditional wood construction, I'd tend to agree, but more
from an aesthetic perspective, I'm not expert enough to have a firm
opinion on the technical merits... If you're saying one shouldn't use
wood, well, again, that's an aesthetic choice.
Either way though, my point was that _if_ one decided to encapsulate,
Dynel-epoxy is better than epoxy-glassfiber, and that polyester-glassfiber
is in my opinion, unworkable.
> A new measure unit based on that one car is one car long ,----- from "bounding
> box" in CAD terms, ------ mean a 3 dimensional space one unit long , and if you
> make a kit of a hey povered jet engine ,you just sneak around nearest
> kindergarden , and next afternoon you can pick it up ;))
> What do anyone care ,you will not use the measures anyway ,so why have
> it at all ?
Here you've really lost me.
The routing out and using splines sounds like an interesting method. One
concern I'd have is the working of the timbers cracking the splines along
their length (along the grain?) though, presumably encapsulation would
help in this regard, another possibility perhaps would be to make the
splines of two pieces laminated togetehr at +/- 30 degrees, to give some
resistance to it splitting along it's length? Perhaps plywood strip
splines, if you are looking at low cost? How thick/high are these splines
anyhow? I presume they are always fixed in place with an adhesive?
Craig K.
Vic
It's lasted 52 years and is still in excellent condition .....can't be that
bad :) ........I guess the selection available back then might have
something to do with it ......local boatbuilders tell me that oregon of that
quality is not to be found these days.
--
vic johnson
Fremantle, Western Australia
Seamanship, like any other form of skill, is an art and cannot
be pursued at odd times as a secondary occupation;
on the contrary, no other work may be subordinated to it.
THUCYDIDES, Book I: CXLIII
Glenn Ashmore <gash...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:3B0BFC94...@mindspring.com...
Glenn Ashmore
ever heard of Brunzeel or meranti or okoume. Fir marine was all there was and
what they call fir marine plywood these days is only a shaddow of its former
self. Used to be you never saw a football on either face. The face plys were
all tight grained old growth. The core plys were better than the face plys are
now.
Dave Bostock
Vic (sail...@bigpond.com) wrote:
: I'm in the process of rebuilding a 30ft double ended wooden sloop....carvel
: plank, oregon over jarrah, launched 1949.
: .....considering splining the seams and sheathing the hull as a possible
: alternative to re-caulking.
Woodenboat Series PLANKING & FASTENING , edited by Peter H. Spectre
looks to be a collection of past magazine articles on the topic.
One Article titled Wedge-Seam Construction by Simon Watts , covers
a variety of construction technigues for the method by; Bent Jeppersen,
John Clark, and Tim Bells. Aerolite and UF 109 glues, and epoxy glues are
used. William Garden of British Columbia uses the method
"to delay an elderly boat's departure for the boneyard" . The issue
of using epoxy to glue the wedges had only to due with working time of the
glue once mixed for John Clark. Bent Jespersen uses epoxy for 3-foot
long wedges. No mention was made of shething (or why not to) the hulls
in glass & epoxy. Mention was made of a Skilsaw, 'tapered blade', 12 Deg.,
and rig guides front and back to shape or clean out seams. The big
disadvantage was the hull was suseceptable to damage if allowed to dry out.
'wedge-caulked' was another term used in the article. Plank replacement
was also an issue due to the problems of finding the seams and removing
seams to replace bad/damaged planks.
--
Dave Bostock dea...@dc.seflin.org Florida, USA
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
jean somerhausen
1960's, articles in the English magazines about new wooden boats being
built would sometimes mention that as a particularly hig-class form of
construction. Of course, if there's any doubt about its strength, one
can always do what Tabarly did with the rotten "Pen Duick" his father
gave him. Use the hull as a male mold to put a hefty fiberglass hull on
top. In his (probably false) naïve way, Tabarly then wondered why the
English meaurers gave her a less favorable handicap...
john
Ian Kentish
right . Vic did you put your test piece in water , did you test it with some
bilge water , will it stand some oil influence , will it move after a few
years , will it bear up in the tropics , can you strip it out and re caulk
the time honoured way if it fails . The world is full of experts , you meet
most when you build or re build a boat in a publically accessable place , I
remember a 32ft trawler called the "Narani" it was suffering the same ?
maliase as Vic's ship ..........open seams ........it was a carval with
tingles ..........the weight of deck equipment had caused the open seams or
in other words the hull shape had changed the keel was hogging , we first
removed the deck and equipment then we set about reforming the hull shape
using toyota pot jacks and shores ......when we were happy with shape we
then did what all these experts said could not be done .......we inserted
sister ribs full length ribs beside every rib in the ship we beefed up the
stringers , replaced the gripe , and as she only had four floors we fitted
about eight more then built a bulkhead rear of the engine compartment
.......she's 65 years old !
The job took about seven weeks I recall the timber bill was about $400 and
my bill $2500 this was a safe and proper repair. A friend of mine , he used
to work for me , is over your way somewhere , I am trying to contact him , I
need to know where you are .
A couple of guns were debating what timber the "Nerani" was planked with ,
very knowledgeable they sounded , they concluded the timber was none other
than Huon pine ! ......it was actually Coach wood !
P.C.
Ian Kentish skrev i meddelelsen
<the weight of deck equipment had caused the open seams or
>in other words the hull shape had changed the keel was hogging , we first
>removed the deck and equipment then we set about reforming the hull shape
>using toyota pot jacks and shores ......when we were happy with shape we
>then did what all these experts said could not be done .......we inserted
>sister ribs full length ribs beside every rib in the ship we beefed up the
>stringers , replaced the gripe , and as she only had four floors we fitted
>about eight more then built a bulkhead rear of the engine compartment
>.......she's 65 years old !
>The job took about seven weeks I recall the timber bill was about $400 and
>my bill $2500 this was a safe and proper repair. A friend of mine , he used
>to work for me , is over your way somewhere , I am trying to contact him , I
>need to know where you are .
Now you se this with many different boat types ,and old wooden schooners nearly
allways have bended keels ,caused by that some of the construction don't have
the same volume as others.
So the midship section can easyli float without stressing other parts of the
hull ,but the sterns that don't have the same lift ,will "hang" from the mid
ship sections ,causing the keel to slowly bend.
--------- If you emagine you cut in 3 and placed it in water as a model for
instance, you would se the ends at much lower waterline than the mid section.
Anyway , ------- I se the rib structure as it is tradisionally made ,as a
compromise you use as that's the best way in practic.
Emagine you stripped all planking _and_ stringers from a big wooden hull.
How strong do you think the keel and rib structure would be then ;))
I like doing scale models ,as these often show what can be hard to overview in
full scale. So once I decided to make a composite boat where the ribs and keel
would be metal or steel and that then shuld support wood or sheet paneling.
Everything was drawn except some small details ,and I started cutting a scale
model of the keel/rib structure. ;
You can se the whole lot here :
http://w1.1396.telia.com/~u139600113/efterlysning/rib-4.jpg
or herewhere you se a aluminium model of ribs and keel placed in a model of a
building jig:
http://w1.1396.telia.com/~u139600113/efterlysning/rib-1.jpg
Anyway it realy _looked_ nice and everything came together just as expected and
everything then shuld be ready for a test model build. ------- but then the
project stoped.
http://w1.1396.telia.com/~u139600113/efterlysning/rib-2.jpg
Now I guess that everubody that read this tread know the idear of keel/ribs and
the all important stringers ,if not quite ,you must know that the most important
part in such a construction is acturly the stringers as they transform the
structure into one that have much better strength than if the ribs are thought
to be the strong-structure, ------- but look at the picture again ,and ask
yourself how "strong" a construction like this realy are ,or rather how strong
do you think the ribs realy are without an inner stringer ontop :
http://w1.1396.telia.com/~u139600113/efterlysning/rib-3.jpg
or:
It would bend and twist ; wouldn't it ?
But if these ribs and keel is covered with paneling from the outside, ---- the
strength will be much better ,for both the rib structure as for a surface shaoed
that shape. ---- Now here you will se the effect of the stringers and their
reson ; as if you fit a number of stringers inside the ribs ,all along the
intire length of the hull ,you will more than double the strength and ability to
resist twisting with just a few stringers.
They will form what is known as a "H" iron structure ;the tree flat pieces of
strip steel forming an "H" iron would have no real strength if they was just
tree strips ontop eachother ; I know this is kindergarden knowleage ,but many
forget the fundamental things ,when talking boats.
Anyway I made the models ,and then I stopped the project ,as I found that the
good-old rib structure and construction method could be made much better ,if
instead of just pouring the known methods into a computer ,develobing nothing
new, ------- was simply not the way to follow.
A boat or a ship ,is a supporting structure covered with surfaces.
The thin steam bend ribs you often se in wooden dinghis tradisional build , have
_no_ strength in themselves , ------- you can break one just like that.
BUT ----- if you have a small boat build in this fasion ,and place stringers
inside ,you will se the intire construction gain strength much higher than what
the individual stringer could hold ,for each one you put in.
You are simply _building" what's simular to a "H" beam structure ,by using not
the "strength" of the thin ribs ,but using them as "distance bricks" between
planking and stringer.
You could build aeroplanes with this method ,as it offer a ligthweight structure
with enourmous strength , ------- but this do not mean ,that if you refine the
_idear_ behind ,that you couldn't come out with a better and even stronger ,and
in a building and projecting process also much better solution.
Anyway I must point to ;
http://w1.1396.telia.com/~u139600113/
to show how you can construct a rib structure that have these qualities.
Anyway , -------- and please exchouse if I run out topic, but splining was a
method develobed in australia so you could plank the hull ,and whan that done
,the wood was dried in place and as the planks then didn't fit (or never did as
the fit was to be applied later ) , you decided the right size and angle (2 deg)
for splines to be eiter routered in or in many situasions a circular saw did an
easyer job.
The wood put in ,was from experience best if it was pain-dry softwood, and you
could use almost any glue ,as the glue shuld not keep the boat together but just
keep the splines in place while expanding ( I used both epoxy and Pu glue ,that
make _no_ difference ,but offcaurse epoxy is good ) , ------- beside a couple of
nails or wood plugs then is final securety.
---------- still the 1-2 deg angle shuld be enough.
Have a nice day.
P.C.
Vic
What you say makes sense and ...."the only way is to do it right,"...... is
unarguable.
Splining and sheathing was something I dismissed when it was first suggested
to me. Over the past three months, I have given it some considerable thought
and rather than reject it outright, I thought I would investigate it as far
as I could.....hence the original post asking for opinions.
My neighbor has been building boats professionally for 30 years and he is
very enthusiastic about splining, and has used that method on three boats he
has repaired. He believes it is the only way to go.
My hull is in good condition for it's age, the seams were tight and the only
water she took in was from the rain. We sailed the little ship for two years
before deciding it was time to do some major maintenance .....the deck and
cabin had been butchered over the years and leaked like a sieve. The
previous owner had spent a great deal of money replacing dry rot affected
wood and it was all about to happen again. The interior had been remodelled
by various owners and some of the carpentry was atrocious.
So ..... she's been completely gutted and I'm trying to find the best, (not
necessarily cheapest,) way of re-building her.
She's the last of T Harrison Butler's designs ....very few were built .....
and well worth preserving.
I may not end up taking your advice, however I do appreciate you and others
taking the time to offer it.
--
vic johnson
Fremantle, Western Australia
Seamanship, like any other form of skill, is an art and cannot
be pursued at odd times as a secondary occupation;
on the contrary, no other work may be subordinated to it.
THUCYDIDES, Book I: CXLIII
Ian Kentish <iand...@netcon.net.au> wrote in message
news:3b0c...@nap-ns1.netconnect.net.au...
Gregg Germain
: Why does the wood shrink up like this and have to be repaired? I never
: understood this. Does the wood have the sap washed out of it by being
: constantly in the water?
: When a carvel planked boat is brand new, are the seams tight or do the
: builders allow for expansion by leaving a gap?
When the boat is built, the seams are built as tightly as
possible. The moisture content of the wood is pretty low. Then the
boat is put in the water and the seams leak a little bit. But the wood
absorbs moisture, expands and closes off the seams - the expanding
wood compressing against the cotton caulking.
Now when you take the boat out of the water, the moisture content
goes back down and the seams open up a little.
Gregg
Replicas of 15th-19th century nautical navigational instruments:
http://people.ne.mediaone.net/saville/backstaffhome.html
Restoration of my 81 year old Herresoff S-Boat sailboat:
http://people.ne.mediaone.net/saville/SBOATrestore.htm
Steambending FAQ with photos:
Gregg Germain
: Interested...If the wood is encapsulated in water proof epoxy / Dynel along
: with the epoxied splines, why would there be so much 'working' or expansion?
: Dave
The working and expansion comes from two different things:
The working of the boat is what happens to it under the stresses of
sailing. If you could look at the planks while the boat is sailing,
youd' see that the planks move longitudinally with respect to each
other. The movement of a boat under the stress of sailing is something
akin to taking the boat ends - one in each hand - and twisting the
ends in opposite directions.
The expansion comes from the fact that when the boat is out of the
water, the planks lose moisture and shrink. Once put back into the
water, they absorb moisture and swell. It's common to see daylight
between the planks when the boat is dry.
No matter how hard you try, you cannot fully encapsulate the
wood. And I'm not sure that water doesn't penetrate the epoxy anyways,
though much more slowly of course.
Dave
Dave
"Gregg Germain" <gr...@elway.harvard.edu> wrote in message
news:3b0d3...@cfanews.harvard.edu...
Peter Wiley
FWIW, the last(?) of the wooden Australian built Americas Cup boats
was apparently a splined hull. I recall reading an article on it while
in the States recently. Hull was still good.
Problems I see are those already listed - doing a neat, accurate job
of fitting the splines, differential swelling/shrinking and the
difficulty of replacing damaged planks in the future. Speaking as a
metal butcher (and therfore this opinion is baseless) I'd give it a
try - it *is* a recognised technique.
On Thu, 24 May 2001 21:16:43 +0800, "Vic" <sail...@bigpond.com>
wrote:
P.C.
Peter Wiley skrev i meddelelsen <3b118cdb....@News.CIS.DFN.DE>...
>
>FWIW, the last(?) of the wooden Australian built Americas Cup boats
>was apparently a splined hull. I recall reading an article on it while
>in the States recently. Hull was still good.
>
>Problems I see are those already listed - doing a neat, accurate job
>of fitting the splines, differential swelling/shrinking and the
>difficulty of replacing damaged planks in the future. Speaking as a
>metal butcher (and therfore this opinion is baseless) I'd give it a
>try - it *is* a recognised technique.
Not realy ; first you _don't_ need to glue both sides ,as you can do it as an
"edge repair" ,. second it's as easy to cut thru as when preparing splining.
Have a nice day.
Gregg Germain
:>
:>FWIW, the last(?) of the wooden Australian built Americas Cup boats
:>was apparently a splined hull. I recall reading an article on it while
:>in the States recently. Hull was still good.
But were those boats built to last several lifetimes? I sort of
doubt it.
Vic
your reply's I've researched a few avenues I hadn't thought of before. At
the end of it all, I probably will go ahead with the idea. (A few months
away, yet). That might lead to me being hung drawn and quartered in some
circles, (perhaps with justification,) ...... so be it. ...... :)
Some of my conclusions ......
Epoxy resin penetrates wood and will stick to almost anything.
It provides a waterproof barrier and therefore helps preserve the timber.
It has a very long life span.
Dynel is a synthetic cloth (feels like linen) that is fire resistant and has
extremely high resistance to abrasion.
Inserting splines is a well tried and successful method. (I will epoxy mine
in)
Should a part of the hull be damaged and require repair, then heating the
epoxy to 200 degreesF will allow it to be scraped off to allow the repair.
It will increase the hull strength. - (One comment I received was that
Carvel planked hulls are designed to flex. My view is that they are designed
to accommodate flexing, for in traditional caulked seam construction, it
cannot be prevented. To my mind, that does not mean that it is necessary
that they should do so.)
It has some flexibility and resistance to cracking - as distinct to
fibre-glass.
By coating every inch of the hull inside and out, it should minimise the
risk of dry rot and also fitting rot.
My aim is to preserve the boat for the future - I can't see much wrong in
using proven modern technology to assist that aim.
(There used to be a sizable fleet of H28's here in W.A. - not any more,
even the few that are left are difficult to sell. Everybody seems to want
fibre-glass.) The wooden boats are disappearing. Hopefully, this one may
endure.
One other thought ... The process I'm using has no relationship to
fibre-glassing the hull ..... generally a disastrous result. The polyester
resin normally used in fibre glassing sticks well to itself .......and
comparatively poorly to most other surfaces, including many types of wood.
Separations are common, dry rot the consequence.
Again, Thanks
Peter Wiley
wrote:
>: Peter Wiley skrev i meddelelsen <3b118cdb....@News.CIS.DFN.DE>...
>:>
>:>FWIW, the last(?) of the wooden Australian built Americas Cup boats
>:>was apparently a splined hull. I recall reading an article on it while
>:>in the States recently. Hull was still good.
>:>
>
> But were those boats built to last several lifetimes? I sort of
>doubt it.
I doubt it, too. Racing boats have a finite life. However, the article
was written 30 years after the hull was built (it had subsequently
been converted to a pleasure yacht) and the comment was that the hull
was still sound and watertight.
The book was one I skimmed in Borders one evening so I'm sketchy on
details. It struck me as being an interesting technique.
Peter Wiley
Vic
> : Peter Wiley skrev i meddelelsen <3b118cdb....@News.CIS.DFN.DE>...
> snip
> But were those boats built to last several lifetimes? I sort of
> doubt it.
That's an interesting philosophical point .......
Were wooden boats built to last several lifetimes? In all of the reading I
have done to date on wooden boat designers, I haven't come across any who
have written, or been quoted as having that in mind. Certainly, wooden boats
can have an infinite life span, you just need to continually maintain and
repair them. The same also applies to all other forms of construction,
whether it be steel, aluminium, fibreglass and so on. You just need a reason
to want to do it. (and the means).
Maybe in the year 2100 someone will be posting news here of the restoration
of his beautiful 100 year old historic fibreglass Beneteau! :)
Ian Kentish
do a heratage deal for your country probably at a cost that will consume all
your savings but will give you and others great satisfaction into the future
and in my opinion you deserve a gong for doing so , so all I can say is , I
wish you the very best in your quest , I could'nt sway you from "The Goo"
but in my long experince with many "Vic's" I have found them to be amiable
obstinate old bastards so I'll not shed a tear ........Cheers Ian at Bendigo
.
Vic
Pat Ford
wrote:
Splining hulls was done around here, NW US, in the 60s. It is a bad
idea. It makes one big plank from keel to sheer.
It is impossible to "encapsulate" planking on a boat which has already
been built. What about the inside? What about the planking in the way
of the framing?
I saw a boat that had been done this way several years ago here in
Seattle. The planks had absorded moisture from the inside and each
plank had swollen slightly and was slightly convex. What do you do
then? More goop?
Real bad idea.
P.C.
Pat Ford skrev i meddelelsen <3b1f07db...@news.qwest.net>...
>On Tue, 29 May 2001 22:46:59 +0800, "Vic" <sail...@bigpond.com>
>wrote:
>
>Splining hulls was done around here, NW US, in the 60s. It is a bad
>idea. It makes one big plank from keel to sheer.
>
I don't agrea ; You don't need to se it as that ,as it can also be a repair of
the most common failour of a cravel build boat ,---- dameaged plank edges caused
by wrong or to many years of unproper caulking.
---------- Then you don't need to glue the intire hull together as you can leave
new plank edges that don't open inverts as the old ones maby did.
Splining is often done to repair a single plank or secure an "edgy" plank where
caulking have caused the inside plank edge to split and then there is no way
around changing two planks -------- or routering so you get one clean plankedge
and a new spline edge that can hold the caulking.
Gregg Germain
: Hi.
--
--- Gregg
"Eschew surplusage."
gr...@head-cfa.harvard.edu
Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics Mark Twain
Phone: (617) 496-7237
Gregg Germain
: Hi.
: I don't agrea ; You don't need to se it as that ,as it can also be a repair of
: the most common failour of a cravel build boat ,---- dameaged plank edges caused
: by wrong or to many years of unproper caulking.
Either replace the plank or smooth the edge and glue a spline to ONE
EDGE of the gap to close the gap. Caulk the other edge.
: ---------- Then you don't need to glue the intire hull together as you can leave
: new plank edges that don't open inverts as the old ones maby did.
: Splining is often done to repair a single plank or secure an "edgy" plank where
: caulking have caused the inside plank edge to split and then there is no way
: around changing two planks -------- or routering so you get one clean plankedge
: and a new spline edge that can hold the caulking.
Exactly. This is fine. but I think the original suggestion was to
spline the whole boat and glue both edges.
--- Gregg
Replicas of 15th-19th century nautical navigational instruments:
http://people.ne.mediaone.net/saville/backstaffhome.html
Restoration of my 81 year old Herresoff S-Boat sailboat:
http://people.ne.mediaone.net/saville/SBOATrestore.htm
Steambending FAQ with photos:
http://people.ne.mediaone.net/saville/Steambend.htm
"Eschew surplusage."
Ian Kentish
Vic
Pat Ford <cwser...@qwest.net> wrote in message
news:3b1f07db...@news.qwest.net...
>
> Splining hulls was done around here, NW US, in the 60s. It is a bad
> idea. It makes one big plank from keel to sheer.
>
> It is impossible to "encapsulate" planking on a boat which has
already
> been built. What about the inside? What about the planking in the
way
> of the framing?
>
Expensive? - very likely. Impossible? - never!
> I saw a boat that had been done this way several years ago here in
> Seattle. The planks had absorded moisture from the inside and each
> plank had swollen slightly and was slightly convex. What do you do
> then? More goop?
>
I once saw a wooden boat that had warped and twisted planks and
leaked like a sieve. Full of dry rot, too. Not one bit of "goop" on
her,
either. But one example didn't make me think that all traditional
wooden
boats are a bad idea. :)
> Real bad idea.
>
Cheers
--
vic johnson
Fremantle, Western Australia
There are not enough Indians in the
world to defeat the Seventh Cavalry.
GEORGE ARMSTRONG CUSTER
P.C.
Vic skrev i meddelelsen ...
>
>Pat Ford <cwser...@qwest.net> wrote in message
>news:3b1f07db...@news.qwest.net...
>>
>> Splining hulls was done around here, NW US, in the 60s. It is a bad
>> idea. It makes one big plank from keel to sheer.
I still never seen how this shuld be a problem , often btw, a few strakes are
left in the freeboard _with_ the tradisional caulking seam and the seam between
keel and keel-plank is useally not splined as the grove often are shaped
different. Anyway a bad Wooden boat are most often not bad caused by rot ,but
by rusty nails or bolts , or to short planks in repairs ,------ or what the
splining cure ,caused by that the wood have changed shape so the intire
construction can move ,getting "vorn out " ,when it move in heavy sea.
---------- The splining "tighten up" the hull so nothing will move ,and in that
way no leaks will occour, and no nail hole will be worked bigger and bigger.
Still The wood will not just blow the deck off if a dry hull is splined ,as wood
can be kind of compressed ---- just like Oak used for long under water will
never expand to the original shape if dried for a long period and then soaked ;
there still is "room" enough for the wood to expand and gain that shape while
putting the same tension into a hull ,as if it was a newbuild dry hull ,that
need to go into the water to gain the last important tension by wood expantion.
Acturly it is the best sighn to show if a wooden boat is fit ,that tension
within the hull structure is intact. -------- as soon as it's gone ,you have a
boat that can be dry in dock but leaking as hell as soon as the sea make the
hull move.
--------- Btw, a lot of repair to _new_ materials like planking and timbers are
often done on even newbuild ships and boats , ------ in this sense boatbuilding
allways have been repairs from the right start ,just to find planks long enough
often mean that you have to drill out knots and do other laminating "repairs" to
fabricate perfect materials even for a newbuild boat ; then if a plank get
_better_ by being repaired for minor foults before placed ,you just get a better
plank.
Btw. ---- the old atlantic racers , ------wooden ones----, was build to last
just a single trip ; after that all nails and bolts was known to be worked lose
,with the enourmous powers from a single mast ,that's how it is ,that even a
boat was newbuild ,it could be vorn out in a single race, bolts and nails are
much more important in a wooden construction than the wood ,when you look for
failours.
Pat Ford
>
>Pat Ford <cwser...@qwest.net> wrote in message
>news:3b1f07db...@news.qwest.net...
>>
>> Splining hulls was done around here, NW US, in the 60s. It is a bad
>> idea. It makes one big plank from keel to sheer.
>>
>> It is impossible to "encapsulate" planking on a boat which has
>already
>> been built. What about the inside? What about the planking in the
>way
>> of the framing?
>>
>I'm an Aussie, Pat, so nothing is impossible for me. Difficult? - yes.
>Expensive? - very likely. Impossible? - never!
Oh, I understand completely.
Unfortunately the laws of physics apply even in the land "down under."
Aussies also have a reputation for forthrightness. I presume you will
thus write us when your solution fails, as it certainly will.
But good luck to you.
Vic
>
> Aussies also have a reputation for forthrightness. I presume you
will
> thus write us when your solution fails, as it certainly will.
>
> But good luck to you.
>
should the process meet in failure, I will indeed let you know. You
may have to live for quite a long time for that to occur, ....... I
recently inspected a 28' yacht that had been treated in the same
manner as that which I propose to do. To date there have been no
problems with the hull and no evidence of rot. There seems no reason
to assume that problems will occur, although it has only been 9 years
since it was done. Time will tell.
--
vic johnson
Fremantle, Western Australia
Seamanship, like any other form of skill, is an art and cannot
Pat Ford
wrote:
>
>Pat Ford <cwser...@qwest.net> wrote in message
>news:3b2430d7...@news.qwest.net...
>>
>> Aussies also have a reputation for forthrightness. I presume you
>will
>> thus write us when your solution fails, as it certainly will.
>>
>> But good luck to you.
>>
>Thanks Pat, although luck, unfortunately, won't do it. ..... and yes,
>should the process meet in failure, I will indeed let you know. You
>may have to live for quite a long time for that to occur, ....... I
>recently inspected a 28' yacht that had been treated in the same
>manner as that which I propose to do. To date there have been no
>problems with the hull and no evidence of rot. There seems no reason
>to assume that problems will occur, although it has only been 9 years
>since it was done. Time will tell.
How were you informed that there are "no problems" with covering the
hull with plastic? Is this your opinion? The seller's opinion? Or the
opinion of an independent surveyor who is working on your behalf?
Around here a boat that has been mistreated in the manner you describe
would have its value knocked down considerably. My guess is that it
would likely be uninsurable. I can't believe that things would be
different where you live.
I mention all of this not to dissuade you. I long ago learned that
coming between a man and a boat that has caught his eye is like trying
to reason with an elk in rutting season.
However, to the rest of you with an open mind:
Modern techniques have their place, cold molding is a great method,
epoxy is a wonderful adhesive, But these techniques and materials have
to be used appropriately.
Vic
> On Fri, 15 Jun 2001 21:15:18 +0800, "Vic" <sail...@bigpond.com>
> wrote:
> How were you informed that there are "no problems" with covering
the
> hull with plastic? Is this your opinion? The seller's opinion? Or
the
> opinion of an independent surveyor who is working on your behalf?
>
who is undertaking a cabin refit for the owner.
Pat, you have a very firm opinion on the unsuitability of this method.
I assume that it comes from a lengthy personal involvement in it's
application and it's subsequent failure. I, and I am sure others,
would be glad to hear of these experiences, should you care to relate
them.
Regards
--
vic johnson
Fremantle, Western Australia
Computer programmers have been working
non stop to produce the perfect idiot proof
computer. Meanwhile, the universe has been
working non stop to produce the perfect idiot.
Currently, the universe is winning.
Pat Ford
wrote:
>
>Pat Ford <cwser...@qwest.net> wrote in message
>news:3b2a2cc4...@news.qwest.net...
>> On Fri, 15 Jun 2001 21:15:18 +0800, "Vic" <sail...@bigpond.com>
>> wrote:
>> How were you informed that there are "no problems" with covering
>the
>> hull with plastic? Is this your opinion? The seller's opinion? Or
>the
>> opinion of an independent surveyor who is working on your behalf?
>>
>The opinion of the professional boatbuilder, (of 30 years experience,)
>who is undertaking a cabin refit for the owner.
>
>Pat, you have a very firm opinion on the unsuitability of this method.
>I assume that it comes from a lengthy personal involvement in it's
>application and it's subsequent failure. I, and I am sure others,
>would be glad to hear of these experiences, should you care to relate
>them.
Oh. You've got me there.
You know, I've never tried it. But then again, I've never tried to
drink a fifth of bourbon and drive to Montana. But somehow, I believe
is a bad idea.
My opinion is based on years of restoration experience. When you saw
a 'glas covered traditional hull you were in for some serious
problems. It is true the epoxy is not as bad as polyester resin as it
works with the wood to a greater extent. 'glas covered hulls were
promoted as a miracle solution back in the 60's and early 70's. Often,
it was a gambit to get a few years of use out of a hull in need of a
major refit. However, the process accelerates rot.
There are rare instances where a 'glas covering might be appropriate.
The antique speedboats of Lake Tahoe often have 'glas bottoms. This
is, however, in response to a particularly severe conditions. The
summers are very hot and the winters cold. It is very dry the year
round on this high attitude lake. Tough conditions indeed. The
response has been to 'glas the bottoms. However, it is done by highly
skilled workers and the bottom is put in tiptop condition before the
'glas is applied.
You say that you have a professional woodworker who is interested in
work on the boat has said that it is a good method. Rather than
depending on a person's judgment that has a vested interest in doing
the job, you should get the opinion of a marine surveyor who is
experienced in traditional boat construction.
A marine surveyor is always a good idea!!
I realize that there is little to be gained for advising caution in a
man's choice of girlfriend or boat, but sometimes Suzy is not so hot.
As usual, don't necessarily believe me. Ask, ask and ask some more.
You are about to make a big commitment.
Ian Kentish
like I said earlier .........once they get on the goop !
Really the problem begins with the membrane , it's irrelevant whether it's
urethane or epoxy , polyester or simply a plastic bag , if it doesn't
breathe the interface of timber and membrane will provide moisture for
fungus to grow , not just fungus but other reactions happen particularly to
fastenings . Dry wood contains air and air expands when heated and shrinks
when cooled , the area immediately under the membrane is superheated
compared to the adjacent wood , this must somehow cause the moisture to
remain in that interface area and not dispersing back from whence it came .
I was involved in a Pub that was painted with a membrane , looked real nice
, had a deckled surface about forty thou thick .......I think it was made by
"Rhino" the building was fired clay brick construction and 150 years old ,
the first catastrophe was with the lights on the balcony ( the balcony
ceiling was painted with membrane too) they wouldn't work , I first checked
the power fuse which was open circuit so I installed a 20 amp fuse it fried
up too .....so I went to check the light fittings ....when I climbed up the
steps I noticed that the ceiling had Mt. Fugi's hanging upside down all over
about 30 mm high and two foot diameter ? .....I poked one with my screw
driver and out poured a cordial of water and pidgins poo which had fused the
light fittings !!!!
The second and very expensive catastrophe was with the hot water plumbing
which was fastened to the bricks and completely coated and covered by the
membrane , the pipe was cast copper one inch diameter x 1/8 thick threaded
into tee's which serviced the rooms ......all the threads and tees were
soldered and all were leaking , 40 of them !!!!!!! the wonderful "Goo" had
done a number on the solder and had reduced it to white paste , it nearly
made me cry to rip out 18 th century handmade tubing and fittings that
should have lasted 1000 years ......we got 800 $Au as scrap .
Another story of wonder "Goo" is about a man fully qualified as a industrial
chemist who hired a sand blasting outfit from me to "DO" his steel yacht , I
checked him out as he proceeded , and warned him about bloom and that he
should have potted water at hand containing phosphoric acid to spray on
immediately after sand blasting a section , he immediately informed me that
this would damage the fillers used on the hull (?) I also warned him that he
would need to slow down a bit and get "all" the rust off as he was leaving
little spots quite visible to the eye , again he assured me his "Goo" was up
to the task and getting all the rust was actually not recommended !!!!!!
some "GOO" eh !!
About 2 years later I saw the yacht again , I remember reflecting that a
good name for it would be "The Ochre Zebra" .........there is no " Goop "
like a good "Goo" and there is a never ending stream of suckers !!!!!!!!
Vic
> On Sun, 17 Jun 2001 15:41:19 +0800, "Vic" <sail...@bigpond.com>
> wrote:
> My opinion is based on years of restoration experience. When you
saw
> a 'glas covered traditional hull you were in for some serious
> problems. It is true the epoxy is not as bad as polyester resin as
it
> works with the wood to a greater extent. 'glas covered hulls were
> promoted as a miracle solution back in the 60's and early 70's.
Often,
> it was a gambit to get a few years of use out of a hull in need of a
> major refit. However, the process accelerates rot.
>
> There are rare instances where a 'glas covering might be
appropriate.
> The antique speedboats of Lake Tahoe often have 'glas bottoms. This
> is, however, in response to a particularly severe conditions. The
> summers are very hot and the winters cold. It is very dry the year
> round on this high attitude lake. Tough conditions indeed. The
> response has been to 'glas the bottoms. However, it is done by
highly
> skilled workers and the bottom is put in tiptop condition before the
> 'glas is applied.
>
touch it with a forty foot pole.
My intention is to use Dynel and epoxy.
> You say that you have a professional woodworker who is interested in
> work on the boat has said that it is a good method. Rather than
> depending on a person's judgment that has a vested interest in doing
> the job, you should get the opinion of a marine surveyor who is
> experienced in traditional boat construction.
>
Professional Boatbuilder Pat, not woodworker. And as my friend and
neighbor of some years, I value his opinion. Besides which, I am a
little over 6' 2", weigh about 210 lbs and ride a motorcycle.
Somehow, people just don't seem to want to give me bad advice. :)
--
vic johnson
Fremantle, Western Australia
Seamanship, like any other form of skill, is an art and cannot
Cheryle Thompson
Vic <sail...@bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:XwFX6.76216$hV3.1...@newsfeeds.bigpond.com...
<snip>
> > You say that you have a professional woodworker who is interested in
> > work on the boat has said that it is a good method. Rather than
> > depending on a person's judgment that has a vested interest in doing
> > the job, you should get the opinion of a marine surveyor who is
> > experienced in traditional boat construction.
> >
> Professional Boatbuilder Pat, not woodworker. And as my friend and
> neighbor of some years, I value his opinion. Besides which, I am a
> little over 6' 2", weigh about 210 lbs and ride a motorcycle.
> Somehow, people just don't seem to want to give me bad advice. :)
>
> --
> vic johnson
> Fremantle, Western Australia
And I thought they only built ali boats down your way...
(I am 5'9" 150, ride a bike and only give bad advice, go figure!)