Design question - hammocks for berths?
Matthew Carmel
Does anyone know of a sailboat design that incorporates hammocks for use
as berths? My thoughts are that stowable hammocks in additon to perhaps
v- or settee berths would increase accomodations yet provide more usable
cabin space when not sleeping. Also. hammocks are very comfortable and
don't require lee-boards to keep from rolling out of bed when underway.
Wouldn't it be nice to have a traditonal design that utilized some
functionality like this from the past?
--
===================================================
Matthew M. Carmel, CIH, CSP, President
OSHA DATA - Regulatory Compliance History Information Service
Voice: (973)378-8011 E-mail: mca...@oshadata.com
Website: http://www.oshadata.com
===================================================
Goodchild
TOAD HALL will have a hammock for those times when it is useful. He only
has one bunk and this is to starboard and while the leeboard will be a
containment in some conditions, a hammock will extend the usefulness.
While he is a singlehander, an occasional crew member might be aboard at
times and the hammock provides an easily stowable, easily deloyable,
easily moveable (to the deck) sleeping accomodation. One thing I do plan
on doing however is to provide some tag lines to minimize the swing when
in use in the cabin.
Cheers,
David N. Goodchild
--
PART TWO of building TOAD HALL: The Central Girder
http://www.anyboat.com/toadhall.htm
For shop and building tips from TOAD HALL
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macnaughton.com
Why not pipe or root berths? They are more comfortable than hammocks and a
root berths pretty well disappears when you roll it up.
Tom MacNaughton
http://www.macnaughtongroup.com
Tony Osse
David Wagner wrote:
>
> Matthew Carmel wrote:
> >
> > Does anyone know of a sailboat design that incorporates hammocks for use
> > as berths? My thoughts are that stowable hammocks in additon to perhaps
> > v- or settee berths would increase accomodations yet provide more usable
> > cabin space when not sleeping. Also. hammocks are very comfortable and
> > don't require lee-boards to keep from rolling out of bed when underway.
> > Wouldn't it be nice to have a traditonal design that utilized some
> > functionality like this from the past?
> >
> > --
> > ===================================================
> > Matthew M. Carmel, CIH, CSP, President
> > OSHA DATA - Regulatory Compliance History Information Service
> > Voice: (973)378-8011 E-mail: mca...@oshadata.com
> > Website: http://www.oshadata.com
> > ===================================================
> I also will make my hammocks for myself. It is not too much work,
> and a nice work during winter. But I will not only make hammocks
> but also net to avaid falling into the water (multihulls) and
> I will use nets in the inside instead of shelfs.
>
> 2 Fotos of my building at http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/8606
Hello, greetings from Brazil.....
Did you ever try to sleep for, let's say, 5 days in a row on a hammock?
I recomend you to try first.... I had bad experiences here in Brazil, a
"hammock land"!!
Bye
Tony Osse
H. Paul Jacobson
On Fri, 14 Nov 1997, Tony Osse wrote:
> Hello, greetings from Brazil.....
>
> Did you ever try to sleep for, let's say, 5 days in a row on a hammock?
> I recomend you to try first.... I had bad experiences here in Brazil, a
> "hammock land"!!
Don't most long term hammock sleepers sleep in them at angle (to the
hanging axis) so they can lie almost straight? I believe the net hammocks
used in the Amazon region are as wide as they are long. I don't think
this method of using a hammock would work well in the narrow quarters of a
small boat.
Paul
Paul Reagan
An alternative to the hammock is the "root bunk". I havwe one in my Crocker
motorsailer and it works out well.
It is muck like a stretcher(as used by medics in wartime). The inboard side
of the bunk rolls up against the outboard side when not in use and is out
of the way any time but sack time.
Send your postal address or fax number and I'll send a drawing, if you
like.
Paul Reagan
Matthew Carmel <mca...@oshadata.com> wrote in article
<346BD973...@oshadata.com>...
jfm...@capecod.net
In article
<Pine.OSF.3.96.971114...@saul9.u.washington.edu>, "H.
Paul Jacobson" <hp...@u.washington.edu> wrote:
Having slept in both types, South American(crosswise) and U.S. Navy
surplus (lengthwise), neither is all that comfortable as a long-term
berth. Even the Navy hammock, with the genuine Navy mattress that went
with it. It took the form of a caternary curve, which for me leads to
quite a backache. Also, as they swing in a seaway, well, you have a
rather heavy pendulum looking for things to bump into.
Pipe berths, however, are not bad at all. With a little ingenuity it can
be rigged to lie horizontal even when the boat is heeled over.
Hope that helps
J.F. Milliken, Boatbuilder
Cape Cod
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Matthew Carmel
>
>
> Hammocks are indeed very confortable but where are you going to find
> the room for them to swing freely in a small boat? Also, the movements
> of a small boat are very different from those of the sailing vessels
> on which hammocks were used. I real bad weather, I can't imagine
> sleeping in a hammock on a small boat while it is possible to get some
> rest in a very narrow deep bunk.
> You need at least 10' by 8' plus standing headroom for a one person
> hammock . . . Did any of you find a solution to these problems?
How do you figure 10' x 8' is needed per hammoc? Let's say the hammock might be
7' long with an additional 6" each end for attachment points. OK, that is 8'.
But do you really think 10' is needed for swinging room with reasonable degree
of heel?. Maybe if the boat is knocked down, but then I expect I would not be
in the mood for sleep.
ne...@bateau.com
On Fri, 14 Nov 1997 10:03:27 +0000, David Wagner
<david....@banyan.siemens.at> wrote:
>Matthew Carmel wrote:
>>
>> Does anyone know of a sailboat design that incorporates hammocks for use
>> as berths? My thoughts are that stowable hammocks in additon to perhaps
>> v- or settee berths would increase accomodations yet provide more usable
>> cabin space when not sleeping. Also. hammocks are very comfortable and
>> don't require lee-boards to keep from rolling out of bed when underway.
>> Wouldn't it be nice to have a traditonal design that utilized some
>> functionality like this from the past?
>>
>I think you are absolutely right. As I'm builing my Boat myself,
>I also will make my hammocks for myself. It is not too much work,
>and a nice work during winter. But I will not only make hammocks
>but also net to avaid falling into the water (multihulls) and
>I will use nets in the inside instead of shelfs.
>
Hammocks are indeed very confortable but where are you going to find
the room for them to swing freely in a small boat? Also, the movements
of a small boat are very different from those of the sailing vessels
on which hammocks were used. I real bad weather, I can't imagine
sleeping in a hammock on a small boat while it is possible to get some
rest in a very narrow deep bunk.
You need at least 10' by 8' plus standing headroom for a one person
hammock . . . Did any of you find a solution to these problems?
Boat Plans Online
http://www.bateau.com
Matthew Carmel
> Having slept in both types, South American(crosswise) and U.S. Navy
> surplus (lengthwise), neither is all that comfortable as a long-term
> berth. Even the Navy hammock, with the genuine Navy mattress that went
> with it. It took the form of a caternary curve, which for me leads to
> quite a backache. Also, as they swing in a seaway, well, you have a
> rather heavy pendulum looking for things to bump into.
>
> Pipe berths, however, are not bad at all. With a little ingenuity it can
> be rigged to lie horizontal even when the boat is heeled over.
>
> Hope that helps
>
> J.F. Milliken, Boatbuilder
>
> Cape Cod
>
Out of curiosity, in what type of vessel did the US Navy use hammocks? Submarines?
Where did you find the surplus hammock? I assume they were used on 18th century
vessels but looking in some reference books, I have not come across a good
discussion of sleeping accomodations.
ne...@bateau.com
>> You need at least 10' by 8' plus standing headroom for a one person
>> hammock . . . Did any of you find a solution to these problems?
>
>How do you figure 10' x 8' is needed per hammoc? Let's say the hammock might be
>7' long with an additional 6" each end for attachment points. OK, that is 8'.
>But do you really think 10' is needed for swinging room with reasonable degree
>of heel?. Maybe if the boat is knocked down, but then I expect I would not be
>in the mood for sleep.
>
I tried . . . 6" is not enough, I would say at least one foot and the
hammock you need to stretch 6' in is usually 8' long. I have one in my
backyard, measured and it is 10' long.
As for swinging, you may be able to do with less than 8' but it is
only 2' clearance each side of a standard hammock. Small boats roll
sometimes hard for example downwind in the trades and just imagine
what would happen with some resonance between the hammock and the boat
period: a 360 degrees turn? OK, I'm just teasing, the 10x8 was my very
subjective opinion, feel free to try it in a noarrower space.
Andrew Mason
> Did you ever try to sleep for, let's say, 5 days in a row on a
> hammock?
> I recomend you to try first.... I had bad experiences here in Brazil,
> a
> "hammock land"!!
>
I have slept for two weeks in a hammock on a ship, the replica of the
HMS Bark Endeavour (http://www.greenwichuk.com/endeavour) and found it
extremely comfortable. The key is having the right hammock (preferably
heavy cotton canvas) and stringing it TIGHT. If it sags it will be
uncomfortable. You do not want a wide stretchy hammock. Note that this
means that the mounting points for the hammock need to be extremely
srong as loading goes up exponentially as the sag in the hammock
reduces.
You do not need much space other than length, my favourite spot on the
ship for a hammock had only three feet of headroom, and the tighter the
hammock is strung the less room it takes up when you swing. When the
seas are rough a hammock is the most comfortable place on the ship as
all of the roll motion of the vessel disappears. If ever I felt seasick,
the first place I would go is into a hammock.
The hammocks on the Endeavour do not have spreader bars at their ends
and this is preferable as it means the sides of the hammock can be
tensioned to wrap around your shoulders and hold you in.
As an indication of the relative comfort of a hammock at sea, I can
recall, after several days at sea in very rough weather, a member of the
Endeavour's permanent crew (who had a cabin with a rigid bunk) offering
a member of the voyage crew (who had a hammock) $50 to trade sleeping
accomodation.
Andrew Mason
Klaus Sussenbach
Andrew Mason wrote:
> >
>
> I have slept for two weeks in a hammock on a ship, the replica of the
> HMS Bark Endeavour
Thank you for sharing your experiences, I have inspected the
Endeavour while she was being built and after launching and have
always wondered how the crew would cope with the low
headroom below decks. It seems hammocks are the answer to
sleeping in comfort there.
Klaus
Gregg Germain
Tony Osse (aco...@nvc.com.br) wrote:
: Hello, greetings from Brazil.....
: Did you ever try to sleep for, let's say, 5 days in a row on a hammock?
: I recomend you to try first.... I had bad experiences here in Brazil, a
: "hammock land"!!
: Bye
: Tony Osse
Tony,
I had trouble with hammocks as well:
my butt was supported (of course) and so were my feet. But my knees
weren't. So the weight of my legs pushed down on my knees and I woke
up every night in pain.
Sleeping on the deck was better.
--- Gregg
"I don't want to die, baby.
gr...@head-cfa.harvard.edu but if I gotta die......
Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics I'm gonna die last."
Phone: (617) 496-7237 Robert Mitchum
Stbdtac
I believe there are two factors to be considered, are these bunks for
occasional weekend use, or live-aboard, and how old are the users? After
spending 4 years aboard tincans back in the '60s I can tell you that pipeframe
bunks w/ canvas lashed between will sag something fierce. At my present age
(53) a hammock or pipeframe would kill my back. If you have youth on your
side you can go w/ anything, including just sleeping on deck.
Good Luck w/ your project
Terry Cooney