Draft specifications for a boat.
Roger Dewhurst
.dxf file to illustrate the hull shape to anyone interested and
able to read a .dxf file.
12 METRE LEEBOARD JUNK RIGGED KETCH LIVEABOARD,
SPECIFICATIONS AND NOTES
PRINCIPLE
The boat is designed as a long-term liveaboard for two people.
It will be moored in shallow harbours for most of the time. It
will be required to dry out for bottom maintainance. There will
be a limited amount of coastal cruising in moving from one
harbour to another but the boat should be capable of making safe
oceanic cruises if necessary. At all times stability and comfort
take precedence over speed. The design is intended to be
economical and to use simple technology. As much as possible
should be maintainable with hand tools. Galvanizing is preferred
to stainless steel wherever possible.
DISPLACEMENT
Displacement fully loaded and fuelled is estimated to be 24
metric tons. Much of this is concrete ballast within the hull.
SCANTLINGS
The bottom is 6mm steel, the lower side panel is 5mm steel, the
upper side panel and bulwarks 4mm steel. There are eleven frames
of 6mm x75mm steel at 1200mm spacing with intermediate attachment
points for the hull lining. The deck shelf is continuous around
the hull. It is constructed of 5mm steel and 150mm wide to
provide a strong attachment for the deck, stanchions, leeboard
rails and some deck fittings. The deck is constructed from two
layers of 12mm construction ply laminated with commercial
formaldehyde glue. Epoxy may be required to bond the deck to the
hull. Deck beams are laminated wood. The sides of the keel are
8mm steel and the bottom 25mm steel. The keel is filled with
concrete.
COCKPIT AND CABIN
The small central cockpit is located above the engine. The
forward half of the cockpit is protected by a small cabin.
Details of the main entrance to the hull through this cabin are
not resolved. The floor of the cockpit can be lifted to allow
removal of the engine. There is good cockpit drainage to both
sides of the boat. Cockpit lockers drain into the cockpit. The
floor of the cockpit is 1000mm below deck level and the roof of
the cabin 950mm above deck level.
BULKHEADS
A waterproof collision bulkhead is required at frame 11.
HULL TREATMENT
The hull is to be grit blasted inside and out after all steel
frames, fittings and attachment points are in place and drilled.
The hull is to be hot zinc sprayed to a thickness of 0.15mm
outside and 0.075mm inside. Special attention is to be paid to
the deck shelf. The paint schedule is to be resolved.
UNDERWATER OPENINGS
The only underwater openings are for the propellor shaft, exhaust
water cooling supply and the depth sounder/fishfinder.
DISCHARGE OPENINGS
All discharge openings shall be not less than 250mm above the
water line defined by the lowest point of the transom.
DECK OPENINGS
Openings in the deck are limited to two emergency exit
/ventilation hatches, one forward and the other aft, to dorade
ventilators and venturi extractors.
PORTS
All ports are fixed, circular and fitted with very substantial
glass. Port diameter should be about 250mm.
VENTILATION
Ventilation is provided through dorade boxes. The emergency
hatches can be opened in harbour to provide additional
ventilation. Fan assisted venturi extractors complement the
dorade boxes and hatches.
HATCHES
Hatches should be aft hinged, openable from above and below but
lockable from inside only.
POWER
The make and model of diesel motor is not resolved. The power
requirement appears to be about 60 kilowatts.
TRANSMISSION
The propellor shaft lies very flat in this design. At a
convenient point aft of the engine the shaft is fitted with a dog
clutch or similar device which disconnects the engine from the
propellor. A notched belt drive to an alternator is fitted aft
of the dog clutch. This enables the propellor to spin and drive
the alternator under sail and perhaps even in a strong tidal
flow. Thrust bearings are required.
ENGINE COOLING
The engine is fresh water cooled and the cooling water flows
through a heat transfer tank fitted to the inside of the hull
bottom. A bypass to an internal radiator can be considered.
ELECTRICAL
The electrical system is 12 volt DC. The four main batteries can
be charged from the engine alternator, the propellor shaft driven
alternator and possibly a deck mounted solar panel. The engine
has a separate starter battery. The main batteries and starter
battery are linked through heavy diodes.
RIG
It is intended to fit a ketch rig with junk sails. The two masts
will be unstayed. The mast diameter at the deck is estimated to
be about 300mm. The masts may be solid or laminated. The sail
plan is not resolved. The design includes leeboards.
STEERING
The rudder stock is fitted with a quadrant. Cables running under
the deck head transfer rotation from the cockpit mounted wheel to
the steering quadrant. The rudder is wooden, hinged between
galvanized cheek pieces and mounted outboard on galvanized
pintles. Easily fitted replaceable polyethylene bearings
separate the pintles from the gudgeons. The pintles are bolted
to the transom.
INSULATION
Insulation is based on the space blanket principle. Between the
hull and the plywood hull lining there are three layers of
metallized plastic sheet. This is reflective on one side only.
If necessary the non-reflective side will be spray painted with
matt black paint. The two inner reflective surfaces face inboard
and the reflective surface of the outer layer faces outboard.
All layers are separated from each other and from the steel hull
and plywood hull lining by light plastic mesh. Insulation under
the deckhead is fitted similarly.
LINING
The hull is lined with 5mm plywood sanded and painted. The
panels are screwed to secondary wood framing attached to the hull
frames and supplementary attachment points. All panels are about
600mm wide and easily removeable for inspection purposes. The
insulation described above is fitted to the hull side of the
panels.
TANKAGE
Water and fuel tanks are located beneath the sole. Each tank
will have an access hatch 400mm in diameter. All tank outlets
are located in the centre of the boat in a channel in which the
propellor shaft is located. It appears feasible to carry 1000
litres each of diesel fuel and fresh water. The waste storage
tank into which the head empties should contain about 100 litres.
Provision must be made to pump the contents of this tank directly
overboard or into a dockside facility. The shower should have a
separate tank of about 100 litres. This will pumped directly
overboard.
BULWARKS
The bottom of the scuppers in the bulwarks are 15mm above the
deck level. This permits the collection of rainwater to refill
the water tanks. On each side of the deck, at the lowest point,
there is a drain with a bypass overboard. After a period of
rain, when salt and dirt has been washed from the deck, the flow
can be diverted into the water tanks. Stanchions are mounted on
the inboard edge of the bulwarks and into wood sockets on deck.
These are galvanized steel and extend for 1000mm above deck
level. Triangulation at bow and stern is probably required. Two
levels of light chain or suitable rope are fitted for safety.
Centred around the 6 metre frame a robust rail 100mm inboard of
the bulwark edge is required to support the wooden leeboards.
This rail will probably require additional support as the bulwark
is only 4mm steel. The rail will extend 1.0 metre fore and aft
of the 6 metre frame. The exact location is subject to the sail
plan.
Keith
cooling, etc.? I would suggest a sea chest for any and all seawater
needs. You only have one opening in the hull period, and if the top is
above your waterline, you can remove the cover and clear any
obstructions, bags, trash, etc. Square with a 1" or so Plexiglas cover
would be great. Easy to mount your intakes in and very easy to maintain.
You can even see under the hull.
Power: I would take a good look at the John Deere line. That's what I
would power a new boat with.
How about keel cooling and dry stack exhaust? That'll eliminate about
80% of what can go wrong with a marine engine. Have you considered raw
water cooling vs. fresh? Buehler thinks it's a workable idea, with a 140
degree thermostat. Eliminates another system.
Sprayed insulation inside the hull? The zinc idea is good. Zincs
attached outside too?
Electrical: Have you considered an isolation transformer with that steel
hull? High capacity alternators? Inverters?
Steering: Autopilot?
Tankage: I think you overestimate the needs for the fresh water tank.
Too much is a waste of space, and the water would probably go bad
anyway. Think about a watermaker, or maybe just a rain catchment system.
I'd go for more fuel and less fresh water.
Waste storage tank: Since you're going to be in harbors most of the
time, it's probably a waste of time to set the head(s) up to discharge
directly overboard, but a pretty good sized tank is a great idea. Have
you looked into Lectrasans or other type one treatment devices? If
they're legal where you're anchoring/mooring, you could use that and not
worry about using the holding tank a lot of the time. There are a lot of
recommendations on holding tanks and sanitation systems for boats at:
http://boatsafe.com/nauticalknowhow/phall.htm
http://www.boatered.com/pres/phmenu.htm
Why do you need a tank for the shower? I'm not sure where you are, but
almost everywhere it is legal to pump grey water overboard, including
sinks, showers, etc. I would either have a drain directly overboard, or
a separate sump/pump combination. Don't let it drain into the bilge...
phew!
That's all I can think of now!
--
__________________
Keith
"Bachelors know more about women than married men; if they didn't,
they'd be married too." - H. L. Mencken
Roger Dewhurst
"Keith" <klem...@airmail.net> wrote in message
news:59575A991D93DAF1.537160CE...@lp.airnew
s.net...
> Underwater openings: Nothing for AC,
No AC. No intention to use a marina often enough to justify it..
>refrigeration,
Probably but this boat is for a temperate climate.
>heads,
Yes. Forward but no details yet.
>genset
No. This is not a luxury boat.
> cooling, etc.? I would suggest a sea chest for any and all
seawater
> needs. You only have one opening in the hull period, and if the
top is
> above your waterline, you can remove the cover and clear any
> obstructions, bags, trash, etc.
Good idea. Thanks.
>Square with a 1" or so Plexiglas cover
> would be great. Easy to mount your intakes in and very easy to
maintain.
> You can even see under the hull.
>
> Power: I would take a good look at the John Deere line. That's
what I
> would power a new boat with.
Availability here? Big? Does Deere make anything as small as
60kW?
>
> How about keel cooling and dry stack exhaust?
If the cooling water circulates against the inside of the hull
the effect is the same as keel cooling. I thought about a dry
exhaust but there is more noise and there are some difficulties
with the insulation. I thought that a water feed to the exhaust
is a fair compromise.
>That'll eliminate about
> 80% of what can go wrong with a marine engine. Have you
considered raw
> water cooling vs. fresh?
Yes. That means an intake below the water line, more corrosion,
but it does simplify the cooling.
> Sprayed insulation inside the hull?
Foam or something? Precludes inspection of the inside of the
hull. Better sound deadening though.
>The zinc idea is good. Zincs
> attached outside too?
Yes.
>
> Electrical: Have you considered an isolation transformer with
that steel
> hull? High capacity alternators? Inverters?
There is no intention to connect to mains power. If there was an
isolating transformer would be essential. I would rather have it
on the shore though. Truck type alternators probably. There
would be an inverter to run the microwave and possibly some other
stuff.
>
> Steering: Autopilot?
Probably not. Most of the time the boat will be in harbour
moored some distance from shore.
>
> Tankage: I think you overestimate the needs for the fresh water
tank.
> Too much is a waste of space, and the water would probably go
bad
> anyway.
I do not want to have to collect water too often. I do not see
it going 'bad' in the right sort of tank!
>Think about a watermaker, or maybe just a rain catchment system.
Watermakers are expensive and use power. remember this is
intended for a low income lifestyle.
> I'd go for more fuel and less fresh water.
>
> Waste storage tank: Since you're going to be in harbors most of
the
> time, it's probably a waste of time to set the head(s) up to
discharge
> directly overboard, but a pretty good sized tank is a great
idea.
It will never be very far to the open sea where the effluent can
be discharged.
>Have
> you looked into Lectrasans or other type one treatment devices?
No. Economy is important.
>If
> they're legal where you're anchoring/mooring, you could use
that and not
> worry about using the holding tank a lot of the time. There are
a lot of
> recommendations on holding tanks and sanitation systems for
boats at:
> http://boatsafe.com/nauticalknowhow/phall.htm
> http://www.boatered.com/pres/phmenu.htm
>
> Why do you need a tank for the shower? I'm not sure where you
are, but
> almost everywhere it is legal to pump grey water overboard,
including
> sinks, showers, etc. I would either have a drain directly
overboard, or
> a separate sump/pump combination. Don't let it drain into the
bilge...
> phew!
The floor of the shower will be below or too close to water level
to permit direct drainage. Thus the waste flows into a temporary
holding tank before being pumped out.
>
> That's all I can think of now!
Thanks very much for the comments.
R
Steven Shelikoff
<dewh...@NOSPAM.wave.co.nz> wrote:
>
>"Keith" <klem...@airmail.net> wrote in message
>news:59575A991D93DAF1.537160CE...@lp.airnew
>s.net...
>> Underwater openings: Nothing for AC,
>
>No AC. No intention to use a marina often enough to justify it..
>
>>refrigeration,
>
>Probably but this boat is for a temperate climate.
[...]
If, as you say, your intent is for a long term moored livaboard, I think
you're making a mistake by not including at least a genset and
refrigeration, and possibly a reversable a/c. When you look at the
total cost of the boat/home you're planning, the extra cost of those
items is worth it for the significant increase in livability.
Steve
Roger Dewhurst
"Steven Shelikoff" <shel...@yawho.com> wrote in message
news:3d6c375e...@cnews.newsguy.com...
Obviously there will have to be some sort of refrigeration but
not necessarily a deep freeze. I am considering the various ways
to power it. Almost everything can work on 12 volts. What
cannot work on 12 volts can generally be run off an inverter.
Refrigeration seems to be the most difficult to deal with at the
moment. The more complex the technology the more the occupant
has to farm out repairs to contractors of one sort or another.
R
The_navigator©
sewage at sea if you have no through hull? 100L holding tank for all
water? At 5l per flush for each of two people and say they use the head
twice per day plus 5l for washing and 5l cooking (ea) etc you will fill
that tank in ??? Get a thoughhull and a Lectrasan.
I'm not sure the deck scantling is up to supporting an unstayed mast.
What about the mast collar? Concrete ballast is high volume and hides
hull deterioration. Why not just make some of the keel solid pig iron?
The insulation sounds suspect to me. Metallized foil is suitable for
only a single layer use (think about it). You need an air gap! What's
wrong with polystyrene foam? Who designed this?
Cheers MC
Roger Dewhurst
"The_navigator©" <farr...@excite.com> wrote in message
news:3D6C4587...@excite.com...
> I don't understand this lack of through hulls. How do you pump
out
> sewage at sea if you have no through hull? 100L holding tank
for all
> water? At 5l per flush for each of two people and say they use
the head
> twice per day plus 5l for washing and 5l cooking (ea) etc you
will fill
> that tank in ??? Get a thoughhull and a Lectrasan.
The holes are above the water line. Safety. many boats have
sunk simply because the through hulls have failed through
corrosion or whatever.
>
> I'm not sure the deck scantling is up to supporting an unstayed
mast.
> What about the mast collar?
I need to specify that.
>Concrete ballast is high volume and hides
> hull deterioration.
Does it? All that I read suggests that steel in contact with
concrete remains OK.
>Why not just make some of the keel solid pig iron?
Expense.
>
> The insulation sounds suspect to me. Metallized foil is
suitable for
> only a single layer use (think about it).
I have thought. Perhaps not enough. Give me your view.
Remember that the foil is reflective on one side only.
>You need an air gap!
The air gap is there. The plastic mesh!
>What's wrong with polystyrene foam? Nothing much except that it
hides the steel.
Who designed this?
Me!
R
bookieb
Rather than design from scratch, it'd probably be easier to find a
proven existing design that's close to what you want, and then get the
(or another) designer to modify them to your needs/budget , than
design from scratch
"Roger Dewhurst" <dewh...@NOSPAM.wave.co.nz> wrote in message news:<akh1b4$hjv$1...@news.wave.co.nz>...
<snip>
> PRINCIPLE
> The boat is designed as a long-term liveaboard for two people.
> It will be moored in shallow harbours for most of the time. It
> will be required to dry out for bottom maintainance. There will
> be a limited amount of coastal cruising in moving from one
> harbour to another but the boat should be capable of making safe
> oceanic cruises if necessary. At all times stability and comfort
> take precedence over speed. The design is intended to be
> economical and to use simple technology. As much as possible
> should be maintainable with hand tools. Galvanizing is preferred
> to stainless steel wherever possible.
>
If you've got a liveaboard on a swing moorning, you'll be dinghying on
and off all the time - you might consider somthing in the line of a
swim platform or shelf on the transom. This could pivot up and down.
Particularly useful when trying to transfer supplies or other heavy
items to/from the dinghy on your own.
How about bilge keels? Ideal for drying out (deliberate for
maintenance, or accidental in a shallow mooring). They might also
remove the need for leeboards.
> SCANTLINGS
> The bottom is 6mm steel, the lower side panel is 5mm steel, the
> upper side panel and bulwarks 4mm steel. There are eleven frames
> of 6mm x75mm steel at 1200mm spacing with intermediate attachment
> points for the hull lining. The deck shelf is continuous around
> the hull. It is constructed of 5mm steel and 150mm wide to
> provide a strong attachment for the deck, stanchions, leeboard
> rails and some deck fittings. The deck is constructed from two
> layers of 12mm construction ply laminated with commercial
> formaldehyde glue. Epoxy may be required to bond the deck to the
> hull. Deck beams are laminated wood. The sides of the keel are
> 8mm steel and the bottom 25mm steel. The keel is filled with
> concrete.
How do you intend to treat the ply deck? The difference in the cost
of cheap constructional ply and "best quality" will be tiny in the
context of the overall project. If the ply delaminates with water
ingress, you've gotta rip the roof of your home - it would be silly to
penny pinch on materials here.
Consider a steel deck - you'll have to do blasting etc in your
maintenance schedule for the hull anyway.
> <snip>
> TRANSMISSION
> The propellor shaft lies very flat in this design. At a
> convenient point aft of the engine the shaft is fitted with a dog
> clutch or similar device which disconnects the engine from the
> propellor. A notched belt drive to an alternator is fitted aft
> of the dog clutch. This enables the propellor to spin and drive
> the alternator under sail and perhaps even in a strong tidal
> flow. Thrust bearings are required.
Hmmm - might be easier just to run the engine for a few hours a day.
You may be able to specify or add a larger or additional alternator
within the engine package that would suit your needs.
>
> ENGINE COOLING
> The engine is fresh water cooled and the cooling water flows
> through a heat transfer tank fitted to the inside of the hull
> bottom. A bypass to an internal radiator can be considered.
>
Add domestic water heating from engine. Heat water for the day while
charging batteries?
<snip>
> RIG
> It is intended to fit a ketch rig with junk sails. The two masts
> will be unstayed. The mast diameter at the deck is estimated to
> be about 300mm. The masts may be solid or laminated. The sail
> plan is not resolved. The design includes leeboards.
>
As before, suggest bilge keels rather than leeboards.
<snip>
> BULWARKS
> The bottom of the scuppers in the bulwarks are 15mm above the
> deck level. This permits the collection of rainwater to refill
> the water tanks. On each side of the deck, at the lowest point,
> there is a drain with a bypass overboard. After a period of
> rain, when salt and dirt has been washed from the deck, the flow
> can be diverted into the water tanks. Stanchions are mounted on
> the inboard edge of the bulwarks and into wood sockets on deck.
> These are galvanized steel and extend for 1000mm above deck
> level. Triangulation at bow and stern is probably required. Two
> levels of light chain or suitable rope are fitted for safety.
> Centred around the 6 metre frame a robust rail 100mm inboard of
> the bulwark edge is required to support the wooden leeboards.
> This rail will probably require additional support as the bulwark
> is only 4mm steel. The rail will extend 1.0 metre fore and aft
> of the 6 metre frame. The exact location is subject to the sail
> plan.
For deck stanchions, suggest steel section passing through the deck,
and welded onto/through the deck shelf. Wooden sockets will wear
loose over time.
Keith
metal boatbuilding. I think it will have a lot of information that will
be of interest to you. Written for the project boat and
do-it-yourselfer. I bet other folks have some recommendations as well...
there are some other good ones, I just can't think of them right now.
--
__________________
Keith
"A clown is like aspirin, only he works twice as fast." - Groucho Marx
Douglas King
> How about some comment?
Would it be rude to suggest you go out and buy a Morgan Out Island
instead? It will cost about a third as much and fill your needs just
as well.
Fresh Breezes- Doug King
Steven Shelikoff
<dewh...@NOSPAM.wave.co.nz> wrote:
>"Steven Shelikoff" <shel...@yawho.com> wrote in message
>news:3d6c375e...@cnews.newsguy.com...
>> On Wed, 28 Aug 2002 13:44:30 +1200, "Roger Dewhurst"
>> <dewh...@NOSPAM.wave.co.nz> wrote:
>>
>>
>> If, as you say, your intent is for a long term moored
>livaboard, I think
>> you're making a mistake by not including at least a genset and
>> refrigeration, and possibly a reversable a/c. When you look at
>the
>> total cost of the boat/home you're planning, the extra cost of
>those
>> items is worth it for the significant increase in livability.
>
>Obviously there will have to be some sort of refrigeration but
>not necessarily a deep freeze. I am considering the various ways
>to power it. Almost everything can work on 12 volts. What
>cannot work on 12 volts can generally be run off an inverter.
>Refrigeration seems to be the most difficult to deal with at the
>moment. The more complex the technology the more the occupant
>has to farm out repairs to contractors of one sort or another.
Yeah, but where are you going to get all that 12v from to run the
inverter? The sun isn't always out and it's not always windy. I saw
you plan to mainly charge the batteries from the main engine alternator.
I'm not convinced that's the best way to go for a semi-permanently
moored livaboard.
I'd throw a genset in there, and you can even charge the 12v batteries
from the genset rather than the main motor. For long term moored
livaboard use, it's probably more economical than running the main
engine just to charge batteries. And it seems like economy is one of
the things you're after.
Steve
Gavin W. K. Peters
Roger> 12 METRE LEEBOARD JUNK RIGGED KETCH LIVEABOARD,
Why a Ketch rig, with a Junk wouldn't schooner rigging be more normal
at that size?
- Gavin
Roger Dewhurst
s.net...
> By the way, if you haven't read it, I'd suggest Bruce Roberts
book on
> metal boatbuilding. I think it will have a lot of information
that will
> be of interest to you. Written for the project boat and
> do-it-yourselfer. I bet other folks have some recommendations
as well...
> there are some other good ones, I just can't think of them
right now.
I have just read "Own a Steel Boat" by Mike Pratt. It sounds
much the same.
R
Roger Dewhurst
Certainly it would not be very difficult to put in a small
generator but it seems extravagant just to charge batteries. On
the other hand if it is used to supply 230 volts it has to run
pretty much continuously. All the reading I have done indicates
that boats of this size generally rely on 12 volt systems. The
disadvantage is the number of batteries.
R
>
> Steve
JAXAshby
personality) only occasionally draws good reviews.
you should meet the man, once.
Roger Dewhurst
"bookieb" <boo...@ireland.com> wrote in message
news:6333f6d7.02082...@posting.google.com...
> Interesting reading. Ignorant comments below...
>
> Rather than design from scratch, it'd probably be easier to
find a
> proven existing design that's close to what you want, and then
get the
> (or another) designer to modify them to your needs/budget ,
than
> design from scratch
A very large part of the satisfaction comes from doing the
design.
R
>
> "Roger Dewhurst" <dewh...@NOSPAM.wave.co.nz> wrote in message
news:<akh1b4$hjv$1...@news.wave.co.nz>...
>
> <snip>
>
> >
>
> If you've got a liveaboard on a swing moorning, you'll be
dinghying on
> and off all the time - you might consider somthing in the line
of a
> swim platform or shelf on the transom. This could pivot up and
down.
> Particularly useful when trying to transfer supplies or other
heavy
> items to/from the dinghy on your own.
Yes. I am considering some re-design in that area.
>
> How about bilge keels? Ideal for drying out (deliberate for
> maintenance, or accidental in a shallow mooring). They might
also
> remove the need for leeboards.
Yes. I have thought seriously about bilge keels. The boat dries
out level but it it difficult to get underneath to do anything.
With 15 degree deadrise and a shallow fixed keel the boat will
lie on one side providing enough access to clean the bottom
without spilling all the gear inside. I know that leeboards are
not well accepted in the USA but the Dutch have used them very
successfully. They make for a stronger boat.
>
>
>
> How do you intend to treat the ply deck? The difference in the
cost
> of cheap constructional ply and "best quality" will be tiny in
the
> context of the overall project. If the ply delaminates with
water
> ingress, you've gotta rip the roof of your home - it would be
silly to
> penny pinch on materials here.
The construction ply available here uses the same formaldehyde
glues as marine ply. It does not delaminate just because it gets
get. I build a rough firewood shed out of this stuff about 20
years ago. It is still standing and still more or less
waterproof. All that had was a bit of water based acrylic paint
slapped on it. The only problem that I see is that the ply is a
bit rough on one side. If the two rough sides go together
nothing will show.
>
> Consider a steel deck - you'll have to do blasting etc in your
> maintenance schedule for the hull anyway.
I have. I started with that. I might be persuaded to go back to
it.
>
>
>
> Hmmm - might be easier just to run the engine for a few hours a
day.
> You may be able to specify or add a larger or additional
alternator
> within the engine package that would suit your needs.
This seems to be a very simple and inexpensive solution. The
boat will be operated in places where there are strong tides.
For example tidal flows in Tauranga Harbour can reach 4 or 5
knots. Somehow it seems to me that a propellor that needs about
60 kilowatts to push the boat at somewhat less than hull speed
can be spun by a 2 knot tide and deliver less than one kilowatt
from an alternator. Perhaps it coiuld even drive two or three
alternators!
>
> >
>
> Add domestic water heating from engine. Heat water for the day
while
> charging batteries?
Yes. Why not. One more water tank!
>
>
> For deck stanchions, suggest steel section passing through the
deck,
> and welded onto/through the deck shelf. Wooden sockets will
wear
> loose over time.
Stanchions get bent. I would prefer to have ones that can be
pulled out, straightened or replaced. I thought of steel sockets
but realized that they would wear and rust. A wooden socket,
which can easily be lined with polyethylene tube, can be slotted
to allow drainage onto the deck.
R
Roger Dewhurst
"Douglas King" <dou...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:3D6CBFBD...@bellsouth.net...
> Roger Dewhurst wrote:
>
> > How about some comment?
>
> Would it be rude to suggest you go out and buy a Morgan Out
Island
> instead? It will cost about a third as much and fill your needs
just
> as well.
I have not heard of one. Are they available in New Zealand? :)
R
Roger Dewhurst
"Gavin W. K. Peters" <gwa...@hongkong.com> wrote in message
news:lyr8gjm...@ghoti.yyz.somanetworks.com...
It just seemed to balance better, look nicer, to me anyway, and
offer the possibility of using the smaller sail to keep the boat
pointing into the wind. At the end of the day I suppose
different people have different preferences, which is why there
are both schooners and ketches.
R
Roger Dewhurst
"JAXAshby" <jaxa...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020828152949...@mb-fl.aol.com...
> BR's books (and plans and designs and boats and business
practises and
> personality) only occasionally draws good reviews.
>
> you should meet the man, once.
That is unlikely. He is far away.
R.
Douglas King
> > Why a Ketch rig, with a Junk wouldn't schooner rigging be more
> > normal at that size?
>
>
> It just seemed to balance better, look nicer, to me anyway, and
> offer the possibility of using the smaller sail to keep the boat
> pointing into the wind. At the end of the day I suppose
> different people have different preferences, which is why there
> are both schooners and ketches.
There are some practical reasons for the schooner rig, it's not just
a matter of aesthetic paradigm. At about 12M overall, you're getting
up into the size where a schooner may be more practical than a
ketch, for the following reasons:
The boat will have better manners when anchored or moored
The weight of the largest mast will be closer to the center of
bouyancy
The largest sail will be aft, where it can be hoisted & doused more
easily.
The smaller sail will be usable by itself in heavier weather. A
ketch can sail under mainsail alone & be well balanced, but if it
pipes up more and the sail must be reefed, it is up forward where
the crew is at hazard. The same is true of a schooner rig but the
threshold is much higher, and the smaller foresail is easier to reef
in the first place.
Just some thoughts on ketches versus schooners, gleaned from a small
amount of experience and a large amount of reading.
Fresh Breezes- Doug King
Roger Dewhurst
But in a junk rig the battens are dropped into the lazyjacks all
from the cockpit. The sails are not reefed in the ordinary
manner.
R
Douglas King
>
>
> But in a junk rig the battens are dropped into the lazyjacks all
> from the cockpit. The sails are not reefed in the ordinary
> manner.
Oh right, I forgot the junk rig part.
I don't see where that really impacts the issues of the size &
placement of the sails or the spars, in fact since the junk sails are
a bit heavier, it would seem that the threshold of the schooner being
better than ketch would occur at a smaller size. Tom Colvin had the
most experience in designing & sailing junk rigs, and most of his 40+
footers were schooners IIRC.
Anyway, if you are convinced you want a junk rig, you should get some
practical experience with it first. I have never sailed on one, but I
have seen a few sailing and they all have seemed rather slow and
unhandy. A full batten sail with a solid vang is a better choice in
every way except as a conversation piece IMHO.
Fresh Breezes- Doug King
Keith
They need to be run under load most of the time, maybe 80% of max. rpm.
I know people will freak when I suggest this, but how about a little
gasoline generator on the deck?
--
__________________
Keith
For 20 dollars, I'll give you a good tagline next time ...
Peter Wiley
> By the way, if you haven't read it, I'd suggest Bruce Roberts book on
> metal boatbuilding. I think it will have a lot of information that will
> be of interest to you. Written for the project boat and
> do-it-yourselfer. I bet other folks have some recommendations as well...
> there are some other good ones, I just can't think of them right now.
Roberts' book isn't particularly good, IMHO. It's OK. Tom Colvin's
book is the best I've ever come across for steel boat building. I've
got a boilermaker welder ticket, so I know a little about steel work.
Peter Wiley
JAXAshby
I looked at a Roberts Spray 39 with an asking price of $25k (no offers, zero)
once. Didn't even consider even thinking about it, though, when I found out
one needed to start the engine to tack.
Interestingly, the builder was supposely a friend of BR and the boat had a 105
hp engine in it.
Don't believe I ever saw before or since a 39 foot sailboat with a 105 hp
engine.
Peter Wiley
site. He has shallow draft sharpie designs that are quite large. Seems
to me you're building a heavy displacement steel hull - 12m and over
50,000 lbs - why?
Given that a set of plans runs less than $1000 USD and that's gonna be
a small fraction of building costs, designing your one and only boat
when it's the first design you've done is just not sensible.
As someone else said, a bilge keel design would be more sensible. Or
as Colvin has done for some of his designs, a centreboard sharpie if
you must have shallow draft.
I costed a 'Saugeen Witch' hull in $AUD - back of the envelope
costings, I come up with some $7-8,000 in steel alone. You're not
gonna build the hull alone for yours for less than say $10K NZD. After
that the fitout costs are going to be much the same for any vessel of
the same rig type & hull size (racers excluded).
As for using timber decking - as I said, read Colvin's book. He goes
into the pluses & minuses of exactly this. It can be done and I
personally wouldn't do it.
No through hulls - sure, if they aren't there, the boat can't sink due
to one of them leaking. However, they won't leak if the hull is
maintained. If it's not maintained, something else will go. I'd put in
a sea chest for water in and a through-hull for toilet waste at least.
My advice: don't do it. Keep looking for a set of plans close to what
you want, then talk to the designer and get them changed as you need.
Take what you've done with you and get it critiqued by a naval
architect/designer.
I'm buying my plans and I'm a welder, fitter/machinist with a very
good workshop, plus I head up a team of marine science techs covering
mechanical engineering, fabrication, electronics and IT systems.
Peter Wiley
"Roger Dewhurst" <dewh...@NOSPAM.wave.co.nz> wrote in message news:<akh1b4$hjv$1...@news.wave.co.nz>...
Steven Shelikoff
It only has to run when you need the high ac voltage or to charge the
batteries. You might think it's extravagent just to charge batteries.
But it's probably cheaper in the long run to use a genset to charge
batteries (when solar isn't enough) than the main engine *if* your not
using the main engine for anything else, like moving the boat.
Steve
JAXAshby
generator "clips" maybe 80% of the power output when going through a batt
charger.
The_navigator©
Roger Dewhurst wrote:
> "The_navigator©" <farr...@excite.com> wrote in message
> news:3D6C4587...@excite.com...
> > I don't understand this lack of through hulls. How do you pump
> out
> > sewage at sea if you have no through hull? 100L holding tank
> for all
> > water? At 5l per flush for each of two people and say they use
> the head
> > twice per day plus 5l for washing and 5l cooking (ea) etc you
> will fill
> > that tank in ??? Get a thoughhull and a Lectrasan.
>
> The holes are above the water line. Safety. many boats have
> sunk simply because the through hulls have failed through
> corrosion or whatever.
Some fittings do not corrode.. Don't worry about the fitting corrodings
this is not a serious concern if you do your homework. I'd be more
worried about being dismasted and/or rolled if I were you!
> >Concrete ballast is high volume and hides
> > hull deterioration.
>
> Does it? All that I read suggests that steel in contact with
> concrete remains OK.
It is OK as long as it does not get salt water in. Have you never seen
concrete cracked by rusting ironwork or the lost armature of a
ferrocement boat?
> >Why not just make some of the keel solid pig iron?
>
> Expense.
How much is one ton of pig iron where you live?
> >
> > The insulation sounds suspect to me. Metallized foil is
> suitable for
> > only a single layer use (think about it).
> I have thought. Perhaps not enough. Give me your view.
> Remember that the foil is reflective on one side only.
A single layer of foil will reflect 90% of radiant energy. After that
reduction most of the heat loss will be by conduction. Adding another
layer will not really adress the heat loss/gain problem... ..
> >You need an air gap!
>
> The air gap is there. The plastic mesh!
The thickness of the air gap sounds small. Is it equivanent to several
inches of styrofoam?
>
> >What's wrong with polystyrene foam? Nothing much except that it
> hides the steel.
So what's the problem -you don't have to glue it in place. Just cut
squares and tile the inside. Then spray with an adhesive and lay on a
suitable backing. Voila! shaped panels that fit the spaces perfectly and
that can be removed easily when it is time to get at the hull the
hull...
>
> Who designed this?
>
> Me!
Okaaaaaaaaay
JAXAshby
>>
>> The air gap is there. The plastic mesh!
>
>The thickness of the air gap sounds small. Is it equivanent to several
>inches of styrofoam?
actually, the smaller the air gap the greater the insullation capacity.
bookieb
> > Rather than design from scratch, it'd probably be easier to
> find a
> > proven existing design that's close to what you want, and then
> get the
> > (or another) designer to modify them to your needs/budget ,
> than
> > design from scratch
>
> A very large part of the satisfaction comes from doing the
> design.
>
<snip>
I understand entirely about wanting to do it 'end-to-end'.
No reflection on you or your skills, but this is to be a *large*
financial investment, more importantly your home, and most
importantly, you'll be trusting your lives to it, both at anchor and
during passages. At very least, run the draft and final designs past
a pro. - it would be money well spent, if only for peace of mind. You
should also get it confirmed that it will be insurable before
building.
> >
> > Hmmm - might be easier just to run the engine for a few hours a
> day.
> > You may be able to specify or add a larger or additional
> alternator
> > within the engine package that would suit your needs.
>
> This seems to be a very simple and inexpensive solution. The
> boat will be operated in places where there are strong tides.
> For example tidal flows in Tauranga Harbour can reach 4 or 5
> knots. Somehow it seems to me that a propellor that needs about
> 60 kilowatts to push the boat at somewhat less than hull speed
> can be spun by a 2 knot tide and deliver less than one kilowatt
> from an alternator. Perhaps it coiuld even drive two or three
> alternators!
> >
Sure, but you'll need to do some thinking about what kind of rpm and
torque that'll produce.
The pitch/diameter of the propellor, which is chosen for primarily for
driving the boat may be completely unsitable for driving the
alternator.
I don't know if it holds that if it takes say 900 rpm to power the
boat at 5knots, you'll get 900rpm back out if the boat is moored in a
5knot current.
Theoretically, probably yes. In practice, I dunno...
If it does work...
You won't be able to use an auto-feathering (fold-away) prop, since
it'll just fold up if not driving, so extra drag under sail from a
fixed prop. If the drag is there though, you may as well generate
some power with it.
A variable pitch prop might allow you to work round some of this.
I also remember device that was chucked over the side and used to
power a watermaker being mentioned is r.b or r.b.cruising? There was
an almighty long thread about how it worked, or didn't, or couldn't
possibly. Anyone remember the name of the product?
How about a windmill?
<snip>
Keith
morning, but click on the more info. link and you can see it.
--
__________________
Keith
"If you follow your bliss, you put yourself on a kind of track,
which has been there all the while waiting for you,
and the life that you ought to be living is the one you are living." -
Joseph Campbell
Roger Dewhurst
"Peter Wiley" <peter_...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:151fcb17.02082...@posting.google.com...
> Go buy Tom Colvin's book 'Steel Boatbuilding', then check out
his Web
> site. He has shallow draft sharpie designs that are quite
large. Seems
> to me you're building a heavy displacement steel hull - 12m and
over
> 50,000 lbs - why?
Comfort, not speed. Yes it is heavy displacement, very
intentionally.
>
> Given that a set of plans runs less than $1000 USD and that's
gonna be
> a small fraction of building costs, designing your one and only
boat
> when it's the first design you've done is just not sensible.
If one looks at extreme designs, Bolger's in one direction, old
English lead mines in another, scows, etc etc, these all float
the right way up. What I am thinking of is not extreme. In many
ways it is like an established Dutch design. It is a very
average hull shape within a broad spectrum of boats. Everybody
has their own ideas of what a boat should look like and what it
should do etc etc. That is why every design is different. But
most of them float! The only designs that I have seen that come
close to what I want are the Dutch designs. Bolger's would come
next but I don't like them.
>
> As someone else said, a bilge keel design would be more
sensible. Or
> as Colvin has done for some of his designs, a centreboard
sharpie if
> you must have shallow draft.
The Dutch invented yachts and are still among the worlds best
boatbuilders. Tell them that leeboards are no good.
>
> I costed a 'Saugeen Witch' hull in $AUD - back of the envelope
> costings, I come up with some $7-8,000 in steel alone. You're
not
> gonna build the hull alone for yours for less than say $10K
NZD. After
> that the fitout costs are going to be much the same for any
vessel of
> the same rig type & hull size (racers excluded).
Steel costs around $1400 per ton here. But it is still probably
the cheapest boatbuilding material.
>
> As for using timber decking - as I said, read Colvin's book. He
goes
> into the pluses & minuses of exactly this. It can be done and I
> personally wouldn't do it.
>
> No through hulls - sure, if they aren't there, the boat can't
sink due
> to one of them leaking. However, they won't leak if the hull is
> maintained. If it's not maintained, something else will go. I'd
put in
> a sea chest for water in and a through-hull for toilet waste at
least.
They cannot be eliminated completely but keep as few as possible
>
> My advice: don't do it. Keep looking for a set of plans close
to what
> you want, then talk to the designer and get them changed as you
need.
> Take what you've done with you and get it critiqued by a naval
> architect/designer.
I have two very competent people providing advice.
>
> I'm buying my plans and I'm a welder, fitter/machinist with a
very
> good workshop, plus I head up a team of marine science techs
covering
> mechanical engineering, fabrication, electronics and IT
systems.
I am not planning to do the welding myself.
R
Roger Dewhurst
> Roger Dewhurst wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > But in a junk rig the battens are dropped into the lazyjacks
all
> > from the cockpit. The sails are not reefed in the ordinary
> > manner.
>
> Oh right, I forgot the junk rig part.
>
> I don't see where that really impacts the issues of the size &
> placement of the sails or the spars, in fact since the junk
sails are
> a bit heavier, it would seem that the threshold of the schooner
being
> better than ketch would occur at a smaller size. Tom Colvin had
the
> most experience in designing & sailing junk rigs, and most of
his 40+
> footers were schooners IIRC.
Were his boats shallow draft? Were they, perhaps, deep keel
boats with the bulk of the keel mass and deepest part well aft?
The requirement for shallow draft indicates a long flat keel. If
the keel is long and flat the centre of lateral plane is in the
middle of the boat. If you put the bigger sail aft you have to
put the drop keel, centreboards, leeboards whatever very far aft
to make things balance. If the keel is long and flat, and that
is needed for a boat that is going to rest on the bottom quite
often, the larger sail must be placed forward or it will be very
difficult to make the boat balance. Draw it, calculate moments
about some chosen point and you will see what I mean.
>
> Anyway, if you are convinced you want a junk rig, you should
get some
> practical experience with it first. I have never sailed on one,
but I
> have seen a few sailing and they all have seemed rather slow
and
> unhandy. A full batten sail with a solid vang is a better
choice in
> every way except as a conversation piece IMHO.
I suppose one's viewpoint depends on what one reads. What I have
read, and believe me I have read quite a bit, has convinced me
that the junk rig is the easiest rig to operate safely, single
handed from the cockpit. Apart from that it is low tech, simple
and easily maintained.
Roger Dewhurst
Probably one will not get the same amount back.. Just think
though. If the propellor absorbs 60 kilowatts at less than hull
speed would it be unreasonable to get one or two kilowatts back
when sailing or anchored in a fast current? That is all that is
needed.
>
>
> If it does work...
> You won't be able to use an auto-feathering (fold-away) prop,
since
> it'll just fold up if not driving, so extra drag under sail
from a
> fixed prop. If the drag is there though, you may as well
generate
> some power with it.
That was my thinking.
>
>
> How about a windmill?
Noise, space and danger.
R
Douglas King
> >......Tom Colvin had the
> > most experience in designing & sailing junk rigs, and most of
> > his 40+ footers were schooners IIRC.
>
>
> Were his boats shallow draft?
Many were, yes.
> Were they, perhaps, deep keel
> boats with the bulk of the keel mass and deepest part well aft?
Some were, yes.
Apparently you have not read Tom Colvin's books. You are wasting your
time until you have. I suggest dropping your plans until after you
have read all his books and studied his published designs. You will
then be able to start over from a much higher level.
>
>
> I suppose one's viewpoint depends on what one reads. What I have
> read, and believe me I have read quite a bit,
You can't have read all that much if you never heard of Tom Colvin.
> has convinced me
> that the junk rig is the easiest rig to operate safely, single
> handed from the cockpit. Apart from that it is low tech, simple
> and easily maintained.
Yes, and it is also heavy and slow.
Since full batten sail technology is quite mature, you can probably
get most of your rig 2nd hand for next to free, including a nice
solid vang. This will be cheaper than building a junk rig from
scratch, will be easier to handle, and sail rings around the fastest
junk that ever sailed.
There are a few (very few) voyagers who prefer the junk rig, and they
have some right to their opinions. Most of the junk-rig enthusiasts
are armchair sailors who are somehow convinced that they have found a
great truth that has been hidden from the rest of us. The more honest
among them admit that they don't have any real sailing experience.
You can learn more in one year of poking around boatyards and crewing
on other peoples boats, in other words, really sailing and working
around boats, than you will in ten years of reading.
If you want to learn from others, then here is a good place to start.
If you want to sneer that I can't possibly know what you're talking
about, then you win. Go build your boat and waste your money.
Fresh Breezes- Doug King
Peter Wiley
or read the book by probably the best exponent of steel hull
construction. You're not going to build it yourself, and you're going
to build the design that you've come up with. It's gonna be expensive.
Go ahead. Only question I have left is, why did you bother asking for
advice here, if you had no intention of listening to it?
You also don't read real well. I never said leeboards were bad, I said
to look at other ways the same problem has been tackled. You want
leeboards, in a heavy displacement boat? Go right ahead. You'll be the
first, as far as I know, in Australia/NZ to do it. Small tip, though -
you'd better *really* like the boat once it's finished, because its
resale is going to closely approximate the price of scrap metal.
BTW, the Dutch designs reflect their sailing conditions. I live in
Australia and I've been to NZ. We *don't* have waters like the Dutch.
If you only want a liveaboard scow, build a houseboat, for God's sake.
I didn't see any plans for hydraulics in your notes - how are you
going to raise/lower leeboards big enough for a 12m heavy displacement
vessel?
Tom Colvin built a heavy displacement junk-rigged schooner out of
aluminium and sailed it for 16 years before coming ashore again. He's
spent his career designing and *building* his designs. He's not the
only one. You're not going to be able to do better, or even come
close. You're dreaming.
Go ahead, though. Keep us posted on progress. I wouldn't do it, but
what do I know? I'm only a qualified welder, fitter/machinist and have
a couple useless university degrees to boot, plus am currently head of
a deep ocean marine science logistics group. My father was a
fitter/welder and I've been building things all my life.
Peter Wiley
"Roger Dewhurst" <dewh...@NOSPAM.wave.co.nz> wrote in message news:<akkugb$i7q$1...@news.wave.co.nz>...
Peter Wiley
> "Douglas King" <dou...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> news:3D6D4350...@bellsouth.net...
> > Roger Dewhurst wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > But in a junk rig the battens are dropped into the lazyjacks
> all
> > > from the cockpit. The sails are not reefed in the ordinary
> > > manner.
> >
> > Oh right, I forgot the junk rig part.
> >
> > I don't see where that really impacts the issues of the size &
> > placement of the sails or the spars, in fact since the junk
> sails are
> > a bit heavier, it would seem that the threshold of the schooner
> being
> > better than ketch would occur at a smaller size. Tom Colvin had
> the
> > most experience in designing & sailing junk rigs, and most of
> his 40+
> > footers were schooners IIRC.
>
> Were his boats shallow draft?
Most were, yes.
Were they, perhaps, deep keel
> boats with the bulk of the keel mass and deepest part well aft?
Some were, yes.
You *really* haven't done your homework, have you?
> The requirement for shallow draft indicates a long flat keel. If
> the keel is long and flat the centre of lateral plane is in the
> middle of the boat. If you put the bigger sail aft you have to
> put the drop keel, centreboards, leeboards whatever very far aft
> to make things balance. If the keel is long and flat, and that
> is needed for a boat that is going to rest on the bottom quite
> often, the larger sail must be placed forward or it will be very
> difficult to make the boat balance. Draw it, calculate moments
> about some chosen point and you will see what I mean.
Have you done any sailing? Theory is wonderful. You know, I sail on a
boat with a hull shape like you describe. It's an 8500 tonne
icebreaker. No sails, but it sure has a long flat keel......
Again: you don't need a long flat keel if you use a bilge keel design.
As for your comment WRT the Dutch still using leeboards - not in any
production *yacht* I'm aware of, they don't. Where I live, there are
still some late 1800's timber ketches about - they were designed for
shallow rivers, more as sailing barges. Fine for their intended use,
in the place needed.
> >
> > Anyway, if you are convinced you want a junk rig, you should
> get some
> > practical experience with it first. I have never sailed on one,
> but I
> > have seen a few sailing and they all have seemed rather slow
> and
> > unhandy. A full batten sail with a solid vang is a better
> choice in
> > every way except as a conversation piece IMHO.
>
> I suppose one's viewpoint depends on what one reads. What I have
> read, and believe me I have read quite a bit, has convinced me
> that the junk rig is the easiest rig to operate safely, single
> handed from the cockpit. Apart from that it is low tech, simple
> and easily maintained.
Yeah. Maybe. I like them too, but....
I know just about all the local boats and there are THREE junk rigs
that I know of. 2 of those are schooners.
Anyway, you've read nowhere near enough. Try:
Steel Boatbuilding by Tom Colvin - it's in print. Available from the
author or Tiller Books.
Boatbuilding With Steel by Gilbert Klingel - also has a section on
aluminium boatbuilding by Colvin. Out of print but available from
booksellers on the net.
Cruising as a Way of Life by Colvin. Out of print.
Coastal and Offshore Cruising Wrinkles by Colvin. Available from the
author.
When it comes to steel boats, there *isn't* anyone better than Colvin.
Some 700 of his shallow draft 42' junk-rigged schooner have been built
by amateurs, in junk schooner, junk ketch, marconi rigs, gaff rigs,
bahama bugeye rigs. That's one design. Over 100 of the 'Saugeen Witch'
have been built - and that's just 2 of his designs, and you've never
even heard of him?
Have fun spending money.
Peter Wiley
Peter Wiley
Yeah. That's pretty funny. Colvin reckons 10 shaft HP is all that's
needed for a Witch hull. Of course with modern high revving motors and
extra bits, that's probably 40 peak HP nowadays (derate 20% then
derate for gearbox losses - it all compounds). Still a long way from
105HP, tho.
I wouldn't buy a Roberts hull, either. Well, not for more than the
salvage value of the bits on it.
Peter Wiley.
Bruce Fountain
> "bookieb" <boo...@ireland.com> wrote in message
> news:6333f6d7.02082...@posting.google.com...
> > Interesting reading. Ignorant comments below...
> >
> > Rather than design from scratch, it'd probably be easier to
> find a
> > proven existing design that's close to what you want, and then
> get the
> > (or another) designer to modify them to your needs/budget ,
> than
> > design from scratch
>
> A very large part of the satisfaction comes from doing the
> design.
Put it this way: if you *were* going to buy plans, would
you buy them from someone with a good reputation, with many
years experience, and a large fleet of existing boats
amateur built to his specifications? Or would you go
to someone who has never designed a boat before? Even
some experienced designers have the occasional cockup, what
do you think your chances are of getting it right first
time? And plans for proven designs are so cheap...
If you want to try your hand at designing boats then go
for it! But start with something that won't consume several
years of labour and several years of income to build.
Just my humble opinion...
BTW: I really like the concept, and I think that this
is certainly a useful exercise. Unfortunately you cross
posted to r.b.c, and now it has been jaxed.
Bruce Fountain
Bill Round
book on steel boatbuilding strikes me as pure folly.
As for the Chinese Lug rig question, most if not all his designs are
"westernized" by the use of stayed masts and the addition of a foretriangle.
As everything about or on a boat is a compromise I am quite up in the air
about these modifications. While the addition of a foretriangle may somewhat
improve the windward performance of the rig the addition of stays and
shrouds kills the ability of the boom to set at a right angle to the
centerline of the boat which is one of the advantages of the "classic" lug
rig.
That being said, my boat, one of his Pinky schooners, is much more
comfortable (and somewhat faster) tacking downwind rather than running right
off before the wind. I love her motion and have no complaints about the
speed her generous sail plan offers. She won't pinch as high as the marconi
rigs here about but allow her a point or so she does well enough and allow a
second point on the wind and she rocks. Given enough wind speed she will
make her mark as quickly as the pinched marconi of equal size despite the
extra ground covered. I have left more than one skipper of a late 20th
century hundred thousand dollar yacht scratching his head wondering why he
can't catch that early 19th century style work boat. Got to admit that when
the wind diminishes to zephyrs the marconi takes the day.
Regards
Bill Round
Schooner CAPER DREAMS
HAKL
regards, klaus
Rosalie B.
>"Douglas King" <dou...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
>> Roger Dewhurst wrote:
>>
>> > How about some comment?
>>
>> Would it be rude to suggest you go out and buy a Morgan Out Island
>> instead? It will cost about a third as much and fill your needs just
>> as well.
>
>I have not heard of one. Are they available in New Zealand? :)
I don't know what the original specs were (I initially thought the
thread was about what the draft should be for a boat so I wasn't
paying much attention), but if a Morgan OI would do ,there's a CSY
available there which might suit as well
I have no personal knowledge of this boat, but I follow the CSY
market. My comments in [ ] on the specs on YachtWorld website
Builder/Designer
Builder: Caribbean Sailing Yachts Designer: Peter Schmit
Dimensions
LOA: 44' LWL: 36'4 Beam: 13'4
Draft: 4'11
[shoal draft]
Engines
Engine(s): Perkins Engine(s) HP: 62 Engine Model: 4-154
Hours: 4000 Cruising Speed: 6 knots Max Speed: 7 knots
[may be underpowered with this engine - we cruise at 5 knots]
Tankage
Fuel: 300 gal Water: 200 gals Holding: Yes
[normally have 400 gals of water and 100 gals of fuel so probably has
had one water tank converted to fuel]
Accommodations
Spacious forward cabin with large V-berth. To starboard there is a
storage shelf with drawers beneath followed by a large hanging locker
just aft. The forward head is located to port aft of the V-berth with
separate stand up shower. The main salon has a L-shaped settee to
port, recessed storage with sliding enclosures. Additional storage
beneath port and starboard settees. Centreline mount table. The
starboard settee is large and comfortable by day yet can easily be
converted to sleep two in bunk style. There are ample grab rails for
safety in a seaway.
The L-shaped galley is to port and features black granite Formica
counter tops. To starboard opposite the galley is a three-compartment
engine driven refrigeration/freezer system. The private access
"owners" cabin is aft of the cockpit. Private head with shower and
ventilation in this owners cabin. The heads have manual toilets,
w/holding tanks, washbasins, vanity and linen lockers. All cabins have
electric fans for optimum air circulation in hot climates. In addition
to 16 opening ports, there are 5 large hatches besides the two
companionways to further enhance air circulation and light. The large
engine room can be accessed from either cockpit or the main saloon
Sleeps 7 in 3 cabins.
2 in vee berth.
1 next to dinette.
2 on convertible settee.
2 in aft cabin.
Room for 4 in Aft cabin on 6 x 7 foot cabin.
All cabins have 6' 5" headroom.
Teak and holly sole throughout boat.
Galley
The galley contains a SS propane, 3 burner Galley maid stove w/oven
(currently needs replacing). SS double sink. Over 40 cu.feet of galley
storage space. Large built-in trash bin & a large pass-through between
galley & cockpit. Under sink storage. Microwave oven works on shore
power. There is hot and cold pressure water throughout the boat and a
substantial water filtration system. Manual freshwater and saltwater
pumps are available at the sink.
Electronics
Navigation station in aft cabin has built-in GPS, Furuno 4kw, 24 mile
range 821 Radar, state of the art Twin Scope Forward Looking Sonar (up
to 500 feet), Knot log interface readout at nav station. Cockpit
navigation equipment includes 5" Ritchie compass, knot meter,
Datamarine Interphase Fathometer and depth alarm, and wind speed and
direction indicator. In addition to bow and stern lights masthead
includes; tricolour navigation lights and anchor light w/ low & high
power output. Radios In addition to the above gear at the navigation
station, there is a Icom IC-M120 VHF Radio with hailer, and a
year-2000 ICOM 702 MII Single Side Band Ham and Marine radio with
automatic tuner feeding isolated backstay antenna. A Sailmail Pactor
email modem is available to link high Frequency SSB radio to a
computer (computer not provided). Entertainment A TV set is available
in each cabin. The set in the main cabin includes a video player. A
boat stereo system includes tape player and provisions for playing
CDs.
Electrical
Batteries consist of; Two banks of 6-volt house batteries. 12 volt
Engine starter battery. All battery banks have separate voltage
monitoring system. House batteries can be switched to start engine.
Double panel 150-watt Siemens solar panel charges all battery banks,
and includes ampere monitor. All new heavy gauge wiring in engine
room, with new 80-amp alternator. Foredeck electric winch fed by O
size heavy-duty cable to minimize line lose. 120 volt and 12-volt
system with shore power cables
Sails & Rigging
Aluminium mast stepped on keel, with internal halyards. Mast pulled &
painted in 1999. Lightning diffuser brush on top of mast. 10 oz main
plus spare main Harkin roller furling headsail Self tacking, boomed
staysail plus spare staysail Yankee, Genoa, Drifter
Hull & Deck
Electric anchor windlass. Three Lewmar self-tailing winches (# 30 & #
55). Four regular #8 and # 16 Lewmar winches. Dodger designed for
heavy weather with removable covers. Large assortment of boat covers
and bimini panels. Most components for cockpit bimini on board. Main
rigged with leach reefing lines to mast. Separate storm sail track
mounted on mast. Stainless steel boarding ladder. Three anchors.
(Danforth, 1 #45 CQR and smaller CQR with 250' of 3.8 bbb chain.
Separate LPG tank compartments. Boat hook.
Construction
Boat is layed up solid fibreglass up to 1-1/2 inches thick. There is
no coring. Deck is 1/2 inch solid fibreglass layup. Mast is aluminum.
Keel is encapsulated lead. Solid bronze Wilcox-Crittendon through hull
valves (removed, inspected and serviced in 1999).
Last Revised: Jul 15, 2002
Contact Busfield Marine Brokers, LTD.
Busfield Marine Brokers, LTD
P.O. Box 91.140 Auckland Mail Centre
Auckland, New Zealand
Tel +64-9-302-1220
Fax +64-9-377-8600
Email bus....@xtra.co.nz
grandma Rosalie