What's the Story with Sailing Dories?
Teakdeck
Bailey. It's a great read about a guy who buys a 28' dory hull and finishes it
out, rigged, for just at $1,000.
This brings to mind the question of how suitable is a dory for sailing? David
Gerr, writing in "The Nature of Boats' states that the great advantages of the
dory are seaworthiness and ease of construction. But he goes on further to say:
"Dories are principally powerboats. With their low initial stability, they
don't sail well upwind. Although there have been many attempts to at making
sailing yachts from a dory, they haven't met with much success."
Anthony Bailey concedes that his boat does not have the windward making
ability of a modern sloop. So does the woman who wrote "Voyaging On A Small
Income," who's name escapes me at the moment. But both seem to find endearing
qualities in their boats.
So, does the fact that sailing dories do not point well equal dories are not
good sailing boats?
Loretta M Miller
I wanted to give you a little of my experience with sailing dories: I
used to row and sail 23' cape anne dories (a chapelle design from american
small sailing craft, i think) with 'at-risk' middle school students out of
olympia, washington ... Our boats were open and shorter than i belive you
are thinking of ... as were they substantially built (they weren't light. In
fact, one had an oak deck...) We used old marconi mains re-cut into
spritsails, and a tiny jib, much like the sail rig on the chappelle plan.
They had large centerboards.
Even with their weight, inefficient sails, and haphazard sheeting
arrangements (we ran all sheets around thole pins and anchoring fairleads)
they seemed to sail pretty good. We used to race them in the 'pacific
challenge' against longboats, jollyboats, and admiral's gigs (i suppose they
aren't a good judge of sailing ability, nonetheless ...)
We could and did sail upwind, though reaches and runs were obviously the
preferred points. With better sails and sheeting arrangements, I would not
hesitate to say they would be acceptable sailing vessels...
Mr. Gerr is right in saying they don't habve much initial stability, but
they do have incredible reserve stability - because the body section lines
are basically straight from chine to sheer, the boats just keep picking up
stability (?) as they heel - a favorite at anchor activity on our dories was
to walk around the boat on the rail - the boats would heel violently but
never get close to putting the rail under. Sailing, they seem to heel
quickly but stiffen up quickly as well. They like to sail on their chine.
remember that, if anything from my ramble here. They sail on their chine.
So I wouldn't say thet dories are not good pointers: it's just that
they sail over on their ear and require a centerboard, which cuts up the
interior. And rremember, the one dory you spoke of was junk-rigged, which
has a reputation for being not so close winded. And i would definitly not
let pointing ability determine overall 'sailing ability'. On a reach or a
run, these boats can move. And, face it, (i know it's been said) when you
really have to go to windward, you use the engine. or in our case, we used
the oars.
Thanks for putting up with the ramble!
Jason Miller (gyu...@hotmail.com)
Teakdeck wrote in message <19990427084001...@ng145.aol.com>...
mk pauls
resistance, ie. "bite". "Bite is a function of the underwater hull shape,
generally if more is needed the keel is made larger. "Sharpies don't go to
wind", well tell that to a STAR sailor. A STAR has a reasonably sized
fin/bulb keel. So if a dory hull isn't perfect for sailing, put more keel
on it, so it looks like a "modern sloop". In doing this realize that there
is a price, the price being that in a big gust the large keel will bite and
trip the boat, now start thinking about reducing the keel size. See, this
is the sort of design compromise stuff that naval designers have to think
about.
If you don't have a 28' garage, check out the PELICAN, which is the midships
part of a dory, yeah the ends are whacked off, and it's a great little boat.
Another thing to consider, when thinking about easy to build plywood dory
hulls is a dory/dory or two narrow dory hulls connected by cross beams, a
catamarran. 28x14, now you got a place to party. I have a preference for
catamarrans over unimarrans-long story.
Keep reading- check out the author, Thomas Firth Jones.
----------
In article <19990427084001...@ng145.aol.com>, teak...@aol.com
Stephen G. Lusardi
Steve
Gavin Atkin
>Bailey. It's a great read about a guy who buys a 28' dory hull and finishes
it
>out, rigged, for just at $1,000.
>
I can't answer your question, but I feel bound to say that I loved that
book!
Of course $1,000 isn't worth what it was...
Gavin Atkin
Mike Goodwin
Had it for 10 years now and can pretty well know how it sails .
Mine has a shallow lead keel and no centerboard , an improvement for going
to weather and still only draws 30" of water . I also have a double headsail
gaff yawl rig , I think marconi would go to windward better , but thats what
the Yanmar is for .
She heels over quickly but stops long before the rail gets to the water and
that is as far as she will go , put 4 people on the leeward rail with not
much effect .
Running backstays help going upwind as I found it more of a problem of rig
not hull form ( at least with my boat , too much headstay sag ) .
They take rough water like a seabird sitting with its wings folded . We went
through a storm on Chesapeake Bay in company with a 37' modern ketch , we
cooked and are dinner while they got seasick and bruised.
Mine is for sale , if anyone is interested.
Teakdeck wrote in message <19990427084001...@ng145.aol.com>...
>I am just about to finish reading "The Thousand Dollar Yacht," by Anthony
>Bailey. It's a great read about a guy who buys a 28' dory hull and finishes
it
>out, rigged, for just at $1,000.
>
Dave Carnell
26'-32' over a number of years. They were cat ketch-rigged. I sailed in a mixed
race against him in my Bolger OTTER II and he went pretty well to windward, in my
opinion.
An advantage they have over sharpies is that it is easier to get decent headroom.
Dave Carnell <http://home.att.net/~DaveCarnell>
Matthew Long & Agnès Peillet
The characteristic which he seems to emphasize is ease of building.
see http://www.macnaughtongroup.com
In article <19990427084001...@ng145.aol.com>,
teak...@aol.com (Teakdeck) wrote:
> I am just about to finish reading "The Thousand Dollar Yacht," by Anthony
> Bailey. It's a great read about a guy who buys a 28' dory hull and finishes it
> out, rigged, for just at $1,000.
>
> This brings to mind the question of how suitable is a dory for sailing? David
> Gerr, writing in "The Nature of Boats' states that the great advantages of the
> dory are seaworthiness and ease of construction. But he goes on further to say:
> "Dories are principally powerboats. With their low initial stability, they
> don't sail well upwind. Although there have been many attempts to at making
> sailing yachts from a dory, they haven't met with much success."
>
> Anthony Bailey concedes that his boat does not have the windward making
> ability of a modern sloop. So does the woman who wrote "Voyaging On A Small
> Income," who's name escapes me at the moment. But both seem to find endearing
> qualities in their boats.
>
> So, does the fact that sailing dories do not point well equal dories are not
> good sailing boats?
>
>
--
Matthew Long & Agnčs Peillet
Jamaica Plain, Massachusetts, USA
Visit our homepage & Bolger Brick pages!
http://www.gis.net/~owlnmole
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
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Migchelsen
it: Cut at least 1/4 from the sidepanels on the chine sides. The bottom becomes
wider. Build an extra tumbled-home plank ABOVE the guardrail, angle approx 10
degrees inward. Install lee boards. This design is only about 400 years old. It
is called a Dutch punter. Steady, fast sailers with all the qualities of an
(improved) Dory, without its disadvantages. The boats were often used in rough
weather to save survivors from shipwrecks on the "former" Zuiderzee in Holland
before it became IJselmeer. With its "short" uneven waves that used to be very
dangerous water in the unfamous North-Western storms coming in from the North
Sea. For those interested, I can provide you with drawings and photograps. And
for those who don't know about the advantages of lee boards, you can also
install a CB, but you loose a lot of room. Signed Barend.
Edgar Warnecke
>Hi,
Hi,
[sounds good]
> For those interested, I can provide you with drawings and photograps.
Will you be so kind ?
Thannxx
Edg@r vorm Huy
P.S.: Hmm, how many *me too's* will follow up ?
--
Keine Rechts- oder Steuerberatung. Zu Risiken und Nebenwirkungen
fragen Sie Ihren Rechtsanwalt oder Steuerberater !
http://edgarvormhuy.de
Gavin Atkin
would like to learn more.
It would be great to be able to add something on the subject to my links
page at http://home.clara.net/gmatkin/design.htm . Perhaps I could include
the points you have already made?
Thanks, Gavin
Plover48
Reed
August Depner
The Dory Book, by John GardnerMystic seaport Museaum, Inc. Mystic, Connecticut -
definitive discussion of the origins and development of the dory, including all
sailing models.
Voyaging On A Small Income, by Annie Hill - a delightful account by an English
woan and her husband who sail all over the world for 1300 pounds a year in a 34
foot junk-rigged sailing dory.
"Stephen G. Lusardi" wrote:
> If you like to sail close up, Yes. Your choice. Boats are personal.
> Steve
> Teakdeck wrote in message <19990427084001...@ng145.aol.com>...
Migchelsen
platform for a place with plenty of space, the ocean where windage is of no
importance. High sides preventing the crew, who usually could not swim, from
falling overboard when they hauled in their lines. It also could take and hold
a big load. The first Dories were built by European emigrants. who had seen
similar craft build by the English and Dutch herring fishers. They used the
same kind of boat, but often with a stern. The type is spread all over Europe.
Portuguese had similar types. In principle developed from the double-ender.
The " platform" has excellent seaholding qualities and could even be rowed..
The nice looking lines were unintentional. Because of her good looks people
are charmed.. Then they start to try to convert it into a horse with five
legs. That does not say that you cannot develop the basic princinple of the
double-ender, which is two "natural" curved side panels on a bottom into a good
sailboat, but it requires some drastic changes.
Gavin Atkin
some people may find interesting.
I was visiting Brighton on England's South Coast, and came across a fishing
museum. Among the traditional craft still used for fishing off Brighton's
shingle beach, I found what appeared to be a Grand Banks dory, rigged for
sailing.
I asked the museum staff how it had arrived in Brighton. Apparently, it had
been built in Dieppe, in France. It seems that in years gone by, Dieppe
fishermen would often go to America to fish on the Grand Banks, and return
with a dory that had been thrown away.
Once safely at Dieppe, the boats were rigged for sailing and used for
coastal fishing. Eventually, Dieppe's boat builders began to build dories,
and the dory became popular as a beach boat.
Of course this doesn't necessarily mean that dories make good sailing boats.
It may just be that some people may not have had the money to buy anything
else...
Does anyone know any more about this interesting migration?
Thanks,
Gavin Atkin
Peter Ring
J.R. Benford designs dories in different sizes. One of these designs was
used
by Pete and Annie Hill to build Badger known from "Voyaging on a small
income".
These boats are perhaps not the fastest boats ever build, but they
carry a lot of weight and are very seaworthy. J.R. Benford dories are
therefore very well suited for voyaging.
Dories handle downwind much better than round chined boats. The single chine
cross section dampens out much of the rolling found in round bilged boats.
And voyagers tend to their fair share of downwind.
My wife and I have test sailed Badger, and found it so good, that we are
currently building one for our selves.
Kind regards
Peter Ring
Peter Ring
J.R. Benford designs dorys in different sizes. One of these designs was used
by Pete and Annie Hill to build Badger known from "Voyaging on a small
income".
These boats are perhaps not the fastest boats ever build, but they
carry a lot of weight and are very seaworthey. J.R. Benford dorys are
therefore very well suited for voyaging.
Doryes handle downwind much better than round chined boats. The single chine
Philip Turgoose
I wonder if you or anyone else knows if the said J.R. Benford has
a Web site featuring his dory plans .If so I would be very interested
in viewing them! Or maybe someone else has information about them on their
web pages?
Thanks
phil.
Peter Ring wrote in message <7hs6li$8be$1...@news.cybercity.dk>...
>
>J.R. Benford designs dories in different sizes. One of these designs was
>used
>by Pete and Annie Hill to build Badger known from "Voyaging on a small
>income".
>
>These boats are perhaps not the fastest boats ever build, but they
>carry a lot of weight and are very seaworthy. J.R. Benford dories are
>therefore very well suited for voyaging.
>
>Dories handle downwind much better than round chined boats. The single
Paul VandenBosch
to you.
http://www.macnaughtongroup.com/silver28.htm
If you can get a copy of "Voyaging on a Small Income", by Anne Hill,
that is probably the best source of information on the Benford
Designs. There are about5 or 6 different sailing dories shown.
Paul VandenBosch
The Guide to Sailing and Cruising Stories
http://cruisenews.net
Delete the anti-spam dodger to reply to admin at cruisenews.net
gre...@concentric.net
>Here's a smaller sailing dory by MacNaughton that might be interesting
>to you.
>
>http://www.macnaughtongroup.com/silver28.htm
>
>If you can get a copy of "Voyaging on a Small Income", by Anne Hill,
>that is probably the best source of information on the Benford
>Designs. There are about5 or 6 different sailing dories shown.
>
Try amazon.com. THat's where I found it.
--
Just my $0.02 worth.
Hope this helps,
Gordon
PS:
For e-mail: replace 'X.bleeb' with 'greeder'.
I do not tollerate spam. Any unsolicited bulk
e-mail will result in a complaint to your ISP.
Philip Turgoose
for the replies I have obtained a copy of Annie hill's book from the
local library before and seen the plans.
I just would have liked to have seen more up to date information
on the web and my searches have not turned up anything using Benford, boat
plans,designers etc.
I have looked at the silver28 by Macnaughton! thanks but it is not the boat
for me although I liked
the look of the Sovereign30 but unfortunately there were no photographs of
that boat ......Anyone
built one of these?
Phil.
gre...@concentric.net wrote in message
<7i7tic$a...@journal.concentric.net>...
Peter Vanderwaart
You will notice that the dory ocean cruising designs from Benford and
MacNaughton have deep heavy keels.
PHV
In article <19990427084001...@ng145.aol.com>,
teak...@aol.com says...
Jerry Limber
"Badger" for over 15 years and continue to sail her all over the world. The
design can't be all that bad for cruising. That's why I'm building one
myself.
G. K. Limber