Can I mix oil based stain with Spar Urethane?
Ron Magen
Try their 'Bombay Mahogany'. Depending on how you apply it, you can get it
so dark it's almost black; very much like the color of Victorian furniture.
'Brushed out' a little more, it gives that beautiful color of a classic
wooden yacht transom.
Finish with about 6 coats of Spar Varnish . . . 400 - 600 grit 'scuffing'
between coats.
Regards,
Ron Magen
Backyard Boatshop
"Igor28302" <ignoram...@NOSPAM.28302.invalid> wrote in message
news:slrnanqu50.cml...@nospam.invalid...
> This is somewhat OT for RBB, but I am hoping that there is someone
> familiar with Spar Urethane.
>
> My goal is to buy an unfinished cabinet for the room that we just
> finished in light oak paneling, cabinet made preferably in oak, and
> finish it myself. What I want is a very dark mahogany color, covered by
> a few layers of clear glossy beautiful finish.
>
> A minwax representative suggested spar urethane for finish, which is
> oil based, as is the stain.
>
> I tried Minwax mahogany 225 stain, which did not work very well because
> it could not penetrate oak and left a much lighter stain after wiping.
>
> The idea that I got today is to take spar urethane and mix it with maybe
> 1/3 of stain for the first coat. That would give a much deeper color
> application than staining and wiping. The two subsequent coats would be
clear.
>
> I have a bunch of pieces of scrap oak lumber which I am now playing with.
>
> Is my plan (mixing stain with spar urethane) going to work well?
>
> Any ideas?
>
> igor
Lawrence Wasserman
Igor28302 <ignoram...@NOSPAM.28302.invalid> wrote:
<...snipped...>
>I tried Minwax mahogany 225 stain, which did not work very well because
>it could not penetrate oak and left a much lighter stain after wiping.
>
>The idea that I got today is to take spar urethane and mix it with maybe
>1/3 of stain for the first coat. That would give a much deeper color
>application than staining and wiping. The two subsequent coats would be clear.
>
>I have a bunch of pieces of scrap oak lumber which I am now playing with.
>
>Is my plan (mixing stain with spar urethane) going to work well?
>Any ideas?
>
>igor
I wouldn't mix the stain with the varnish in this case as it will
weaken the protective quality of the varnish at best or prevent it
from curing properly at worst.
My best idea would be to go to a good paint store and see what they
recommend. If you do want to experiment with the Minwax products,
there are UTC (Universal Tinting Colors) and other additives available.
--
Larry Wasserman Baltimore, Maryland
lwas...@charm.net
Christopher
The answer to your question is, yes, you can add oil based stain to oil
based poly (spar is oil based). I'm not usre why the minwax guy told you
to use spar, though. That's generally used for outdoor applications, and
doesn't have any advantages in your situation.
I use stain/poly mix on pine, since pine tends to accept stain blotchy (or
is that blotchily??). With a gloss poly it turns out slippery smooth and
very glossy. However, it takes quite a few coats to get a dark color.
another option, have you considered gel stain? Adheres to the surface and
soaks in well. Since you are having problems with the wood soaking up the
color, it might work for you. I used this before I trid mixing stain and
poly.
Chris
mikeg
> weaken the protective quality of the varnish at best or prevent it
> from curing properly at worst.
I'm not sure where the basis for that comment came from but I'd have to
strongly disagree with it as a whole.
Varnish - thinner, mineral spirits, carrier, a curing oil (hopefully tung),
resins.
Stain - thinner, mineral spirits, carrier, a curing oil (hopefully tung),
pigments (very little).
Thin a mixture of the two enough and you've got Danish oil, thin it a little
and you've got a tinted wiping varnish, don't thin it and you've got a
colored min-wax finish.
And just exactly what do you imagine UTC's and other additives are but
colored pigments??.
--
Mike Glennon
Heirloom Woods
Weymouth Ma.
www.heirloom-woods.net
mi...@heirloom-woods.net
John R Weiss
between, gets the darkness you want.
------------------
John Weiss
Seattle, WA
Remove NOSPAM from reply address
"Igor28302" <ignoram...@NOSPAM.28302.invalid> wrote...
Rick Tyler
(Igor28302) wrote:
>This is somewhat OT for RBB, but I am hoping that there is someone
>familiar with Spar Urethane.
What you really need is some more expertise. I *highly* recommend
"Understanding Wood Finishing" by Bob Flexner. Get it from the
library or your bookstore today. It would take screensful of
information in an email message to match one small part of this book.
Since oak is so porous (I assume you are talking about one of the red
oak species here), it needs special finishing tricks. If you don't do
it right, having the finish look the way you want is a crapshoot.
>
>A minwax representative suggested spar urethane for finish, which is
>oil based, as is the stain.
Was the Minwax rep sniffing his products? I wouldn't use a spar
varnish for an internal application. There are varnishes which are
mixed to work well inside, but don't have (or need) the UV and weather
protection you need on a boat.
As someone else replied to this thread, wood finishes contain a
solvent, pigment, and protectant. They also can contain metallic
driers and other stuff. You need to consider wood surface (red oak
has huge pores), colorants (dyes and stains), and finish each as a
separate issue. For example, why varnish for an interior application
at all? Oil-based varnishes take forever to dry, and are a pain to
keep dust free.
If it isn't a heavy wear surface and you don't need a gloss surface,
consider some other finish. A wiping oil (like Deft or Watco) with a
paste wax on top is easy to repair, and fool-proof to apply. If you
want some depth, use shellac. Again, easy to fix and easier to apply
well than varnish. Or consider one of the new water-based finishes.
They dry much faster than oil-based finishes, which reduces their
exposure time to dust, and generally finish clearer than oil.
>
>I tried Minwax mahogany 225 stain, which did not work very well because
>it could not penetrate oak and left a much lighter stain after wiping.
See Flexner's book.
Rick Tyler
Rick Tyler
Wasserman) wrote:
>My best idea would be to go to a good paint store and see what they
>recommend.
I wouldn't. Most of them don't know much about wood finishing. Look
for a store that specializes in hardwoods and cabinet- and
furniture-making supplies for advice. If you have time to look
around, a lot of cities have woodworking clubs. These are a source of
woodworking expertise, but, like boatbuilders, woodworkers are an
opinionated bunch and you can find different answers from different
people, who both might all be right.
Good luck.
Rick Tyler
__________________________________________________________________
"Ignorant voracity -- a wingless vulture -- can soar only into the
depths of ignominy." Patrick O'Brian
Christopher
For mixing stain & poly I did this through trial and error...can't give
proportions. Sorry. A little stain goes a long way, I can tell you that
much. The last batch I did was somewhere around 3-1, poly to stain. Mix
and test on scraps.
2 coats gave a nice gloss. Color will vary by the mixture. Again, trial
and error. One thing I did notice is it spread much smoother, due to the
thinning, and dried faster.
Chris
Xane MegaWolf T.
I was in Home Depot again today, and went by their demo aisle for
Minwax. How they got their red mahogany on oak so dark, I can't
imagine. I've never been able to get it that dark. However, I did
notice that one of their Gel stains [can't remember the names],
waterbased stains [Burgundy] and especially the Polyshades Gloss
[Bombay Mahogany] were darker than the regular yellow can one. I would
try using the Polyshades Bombay again. You have to give it several
thin coats, rubbing down with ultra fine steel wool between each one.
While I doubt you can get it to look as good as they do in the store
[I swear, that ain't real wood but plastic/enamel casts], it's a lot
closer to the color you're looking for. Note: Wal-Mart carries the
polyshades gloss in small cans if you want to test. Home Depot only
carries the flat one in small cans. As it is, I think I'm going to buy
a can to play with. Since I do hobby work, and not fine woodworking,
staining isn't as much of a sin. Though I do like making good birch
plywood boxes, with a brass inlay and a nice high gloss dark stain.
On 10 Sep 2002 04:44:16 GMT, ignoram...@NOSPAM.28302.invalid
(Igor28302) wrote:
>This is somewhat OT for RBB, but I am hoping that there is someone
>familiar with Spar Urethane.
>
>My goal is to buy an unfinished cabinet for the room that we just
>finished in light oak paneling, cabinet made preferably in oak, and
>finish it myself. What I want is a very dark mahogany color, covered by
>a few layers of clear glossy beautiful finish.
>
>A minwax representative suggested spar urethane for finish, which is
>oil based, as is the stain.
>
>I tried Minwax mahogany 225 stain, which did not work very well because
>it could not penetrate oak and left a much lighter stain after wiping.
>
>The idea that I got today is to take spar urethane and mix it with maybe
>1/3 of stain for the first coat. That would give a much deeper color
>application than staining and wiping. The two subsequent coats would be clear.
>
>I have a bunch of pieces of scrap oak lumber which I am now playing with.
>
>Is my plan (mixing stain with spar urethane) going to work well?
>
>Any ideas?
>
>igor
Jason
stain will be captured by the pores of oak and the behaviour of this is
uncertain, primarily: would it ever dry correctly?
my 2cents,
Jason
"Igor27978" <ignoram...@NOSPAM.27978.invalid> wrote in message
news:slrnans08j.1fa...@nospam.invalid...
> Christopher <camp...@dc.umd.edu> wrote:
> *
> * The answer to your question is, yes, you can add oil based stain to oil
> * based poly (spar is oil based). I'm not usre why the minwax guy told
you
> * to use spar, though. That's generally used for outdoor applications,
and
> * doesn't have any advantages in your situation.
> *
> * I use stain/poly mix on pine, since pine tends to accept stain blotchy
(or
> * is that blotchily??). With a gloss poly it turns out slippery smooth
and
> * very glossy. However, it takes quite a few coats to get a dark color.
>
> How many coats do you need?
>
> Also, what is the proportion of stain to poly do you use?
>
> * another option, have you considered gel stain? Adheres to the surface
and
> * soaks in well. Since you are having problems with the wood soaking up
the
> * color, it might work for you. I used this before I trid mixing stain
and
> * poly.
>
> I am not sure how gel stain works and what advantages it has, but I am
> ready to consider anything.
>
> igor
Ron Magen
If you've read "Megawolf" 's answer you now know Bombay Mahogany IS a
'combination of stain & poly . . . one of their Polyshades products. After
you apply a coat, if it is then dark enough for you, simply over-coat with
the 'clear' product of your choice.
If you need UV protection, a Marine varnish (SPAR is a 'long oil' or soft
finish}or a 'clearcoat' {like Minwax Polycrylic}. The Poly will give a
water-clear, hard, scratch resistant finish . . . non-UV protective . . .
for indoor use.
'Brushing out' simply means to put on a thin coat, or brush the paint/stain
out to a thin, even layer. If you 'flow on 'Bombay Mahogany' like varnish,
you will get a VERY DARK and heavy coat. If you brush on a thin coat, or
thin the product with a little solvent, you'll have a lighter coat & color .
. . just make sure it's even. If you apply when it's cool, or just a little
warm, it will 'self-level' before it dries and the brush marks will
disappear. Typically I use a foam brush which all but eliminates this
problem.
'Wolfie', if you are reading this . . . I don't know about the 'samples' but
I GET that type of final finish. Be glad to send you a photo of a rudder
blade I did.
Regards,
Ron Magen
Backyard Boatshop
"Igor27978" <ignoram...@NOSPAM.27978.invalid> wrote in message
news:slrnanrtp0.vog...@nospam.invalid...
> Ron Magen <quo...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> * Igor,
> * Try their 'Bombay Mahogany'. Depending on how you apply it, you can get
it
> * so dark it's almost black; very much like the color of Victorian
furniture.
>
> Even on oak? With the other minwax stain (MAHOGANY 225), I had what
> seemed to be a basic penetration problem, it looked very rich until I
> wiped excess stain, at which point most of the color went away.
>
> * 'Brushed out' a little more, it gives that beautiful color of a classic
> * wooden yacht transom.
>
> Could you explain this a little more? What do you mean by "brushed out"?
>
> * Finish with about 6 coats of Spar Varnish . . . 400 - 600 grit
'scuffing'
> * between coats.
>
> Sure. What do you think about my original question that started this
thread?
>
> Can I add stain to Helmsman Spar Urethane?
>
> igor
>
> * Regards,
> * Ron Magen
> * Backyard Boatshop
> *
> * "Igor28302" <ignoram...@NOSPAM.28302.invalid> wrote in message
> * news:slrnanqu50.cml...@nospam.invalid...
> * > This is somewhat OT for RBB, but I am hoping that there is someone
> * > familiar with Spar Urethane.
> * >
> * > My goal is to buy an unfinished cabinet for the room that we just
> * > finished in light oak paneling, cabinet made preferably in oak, and
> * > finish it myself. What I want is a very dark mahogany color, covered
by
> * > a few layers of clear glossy beautiful finish.
> * >
> * > A minwax representative suggested spar urethane for finish, which is
> * > oil based, as is the stain.
> * >
> * > I tried Minwax mahogany 225 stain, which did not work very well
because
> * > it could not penetrate oak and left a much lighter stain after wiping.
> * >
> * > The idea that I got today is to take spar urethane and mix it with
maybe
> * > 1/3 of stain for the first coat. That would give a much deeper color
> * > application than staining and wiping. The two subsequent coats would
be
> * clear.
> * >
> * > I have a bunch of pieces of scrap oak lumber which I am now playing
with.
> * >
> * > Is my plan (mixing stain with spar urethane) going to work well?
> * >
> * > Any ideas?
> * >
> * > igor
> *
> *
Christopher
Igor27978 <ignoram...@NOSPAM.27978.invalid> wrote:
>
>Did you do all coats with stain, or just the first one?
All coats
>
>How many coats did you apply?
>
To get the color I want generally takes 3-4 coats.
Chris
Xane MegaWolf T.
<quo...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
I think it really depends on what kind of wood you're using. I do get
those kinds of results on maple, birch, or even poplar, but oak will
simply not take the stain that deeply, nor will it ever look as 'flat'
as the store demo because of the grain. I figure a sanding sealer
would fix that, but the items I use oak for, the look of the deep
grain is actually desired.
I really need to shorten my posting ident to just Xane ;)
jimmya...@gmail.com
Don't forget, you should also consider any sort of mammal semen for thinning, (preferably from the ungulate family) for thinning oil based stains. However please keep in mind that this will impart a salty flavor to your finished product. Thanks for your time and have a great day.
Jimmy