Universal Tender Dinghy?
Lloyd Sumpter
I'm enjoying my Walker Bay 8 as a tender for Far Cove ("Near Cove"),
but there's a few things I'd like different. So...I thought why not build
a dinghy that fits my needs exactly?
My Needs:
- It has to be 9 ft long. I can't fit anything longer on the deck, and I
need it as big as possible - see below.
- It has to row reasonably well (by "reasonably" I mean about as well as
Near Cove, and MUCH better than an inflatable!)
- It would be nice if it sailed OK (by "OK" I mean better than Near Cove)
- It needs to carry 3 people, hopefully 4 in a pinch.
- It would be nice to be able to plane OK with maybe a 7.5hp outboard.
- It needs to be fairly light - say under 100lb.
I know that's a lot, and I know some of these are contrary (planing
hulls don't row or sail well..). I'm thinking of a design similar to Near
Cove, moderate V, maybe wider and flatter at the stern, with of course a
more skookum transom and better daggerboard placement.
Stitch&glue plywood is my construction method of choice.
Any ideas, or should I design it myself? Can I take an 8ft design and
stretch it, or shrink a 10ft design?
Lloyd
Sal's Dad
that big, you could plane on a box keel.
How wide can you go?
Yes, of course you design it yourself, or stretch/shrink any design. Just
consider submitting it for a "peer review" before you get too far, as it's
far easier to design an awful boat than a good one. . .
Sensei
You will find that 9' S&G boats are quite uncommon...
The reson is simple. The standard plywood sheet is 4'x8'. Making a 9' bost
will waste a lot of material without offering any real advantage (except for
certain particular situations such as yours).
I would NOT increase or decrease any design by more then about 5% for a
larger boat and about 10% for anything really small. Mainly due to changes
of scantlings. So, in your case - plans for both an 8' and a 10' could be
adapted. However, it would be better to decrease a certain model then to
increase one. In any case, consult with the original designer if possible.
At Boat Plans OnLine (http://www.bateau.com) you will find (amongst others)
the following:
8' D4 dinghy, more info at http://www.bateau.com/plans/small/D4.php3 (free
plans download at http://www.boatbuilder-online.com/free/4dink.zip)
8' PK78 Pram, more info at http://www.bateau.com/plans/small/PK78.php3
10' V10 dinghy, more info at http://www.bateau.com/plans/small/V10.php3
Have fun.
Lloyd Sumpter
On Wed, 31 Jul 2002 08:37:10 -0700, Sal's Dad wrote:
> Consider some of Bolger's designs, perhaps a scaled up "Bee". With a
> motor that big, you could plane on a box keel.
>
My concern is that most "sailing" and "rowing" designs don't plane
well. I'm looking for Bolger's designs - I see a "Micro" that looks too
big...
> How wide can you go?
>
Given 9ft as my length, I'd say more than about 4'6" beam would look
pretty fat.
> Yes, of course you design it yourself, or stretch/shrink any design.
> Just consider submitting it for a "peer review" before you get too far,
> as it's far easier to design an awful boat than a good one. . .
>
:) True! Although I'm more interested in function than form, I would
like it to look decent (defined as "better-looking than an inflatable"..)
Thinking a bit more about it, my main concern is that it would track
well when rowing - I had a sabot-clone dinghy that would NOT go in a
straight line.
I'm also looking at removing the seat that's typically right at the
transom - it's too far back to be useful for a second person, and nobody
can sit there if there's an electric or gas outboard or tiller. What
about a seat about 18" forward of the transom, and a second one just
forward of center (also eliminate the triangular bow seat)?
I'd sit in the rear seat with OB or tiller, and the front one when
rowing (if by myself, would this create a bow-heavy attitude that would
keep it from tracking well?)
Ron Magen
I would NOT use the 'BEE' for a tender. A 'hot little speeder' but not a
tender. ['salsdad' - the specs call for a 5hp of no more than 60 pounds 'dry
weight' - and she will 'fly' with that]
While the 'step keel' makes for high speed at low power, it also adds a lot
of resistance at low (rowing) speeds.
Take a look at my article in www.duckworksmagazine.com for some photo's and
how she's built. I've read about her stretched to 10 feet, but she also
increases in beam . . . not good for hauling up on deck.
A better recommendation would be either a 'Nymph' or 'Rubens Nymph' pram.
The style may not have the panache of 'pointy' types, but the load carrying,
stability, and ease under oars can't be beat. She can be fitted with a
loose-footed sail. A small o/b could be fitted (I would use an electric) but
the rocker (for good rowing) does not have the long aft run for good power
propulsion.
I think there is a photo of 'BEE' and 'Rubens NYMPH' side-by-side in my
article.
Regards,
Ron Magen
Backyard Boatshop
"Lloyd Sumpter" <lsum...@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:pan.2002.07.31.07....@shaw.ca...
William R. Watt
make lots of trips to the dock with the inlaws, yet naskapi size and
weight to come aboard. I think I'd tend to go boxy and let the outboard do
any extra work.
Dont' overlook folding plywood tenders. TF Jones made one and described it
in "New Plywood Boats". Custom design tailored to fit self and wife (no
inlaws). His 2 books are pretty useful for an amateur (like myself) who
wants to custom design a small plywood boat. Ottawa library has copies.
Say, I'd look at the small garveys in his books, like little plywood Boston
Whalers.
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Lloyd Sumpter
You've pretty much hit the nail on the head: A "fast" planing dinghy
like Sam recommended does not sail or row well. A good sailing/rowing
dinghy does not plane well.
As for the electric, of course! Near Cove has a Minn Kota 30 that has
replaced the oars as its Primary Propulsion. I plan to get perhaps a
bigger one (36/40T/44?) for the new dinghy, and expect I'll be using it
the majority of the time.
But once in a while, I'd like to strap on the 7.5 and GO!
Lloyd
"Near Cove" Walker Bay 8
Jim Conlin
What's the reserve bouyancy of a swamped dinghy with a 75 lb. battery in its
bilge?
Lloyd Sumpter
altogether - about the same as a 2-3hp outboard with a tank of gas?
Lloyd
Lloyd Sumpter
Yes, I realized why I wasn't finding too many 9ft plywood boats.
I was wondering if I could simply "chop off" a foot off the bow of a
"pointy-end" 10-ft dinghy to make a 9ft pram. Far Cove's previous dinghy,
a "Lil Admiral" was designed this way.
I looked at the V10 - nice, but I'm concerned about the 6hp max
rating, and it doesn't say what its carrying capacity is. Anybody built
one?
Lloyd
Paul Hamilton
are 9 foot long, including the "Skylark" and the "Highlander". I have almost
finished the hull of one of their kayaks and very happy with the plans. They
also seem to be happy to "adjust" there designs to suit a customers needs.
"Lloyd Sumpter" <lsum...@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:pan.2002.07.31.07....@shaw.ca...
Glen Evans
lbs. that seem like what you are interested in. I just spoke with him on
the phone and he said they could be cut aft and that several people have
added length to them with success. www.tracyobrien.com
Good luck,
Glen
Lloyd Sumpter <lsum...@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:pan.2002.07.31.07....@shaw.ca...
RJ COOK
lines of a northwestern coastal boat by the name of "Bartender". I am
sorry, but the name of the designer of this boat slips my mind (you might
check with the staff of Woodenboat Magazine). This modified double ender
bottom design may just give you ideas for a hull concept that is a good
compromise between a powered panning hull and a rowing/sailing hull. Expand
the hulls volume above the waterline to suit your needs and truncate the
boats lines at the rear waterline to hang an outboard or a rudder. This
hull/bottom design is also used in planning racing canoe hulls (obviously
greater fineness ratio). It should lend itself to S & G type construction.
As an added advantage, the double ender is the most seaworthy of all hull
types, IMHO. :)
RJ
"Lloyd Sumpter" <lsum...@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:pan.2002.07.31.07....@shaw.ca...
Dave W
DonB
makes a good tender with the sides raised a few inches". Also he said
she would need a weight in the stern when towed. I believe she rows ok
but you would not bother rigging for sailing. And she is the only
tender I know of which would take the motor he has.
DonB
Ron Magen
That IS interesting.
For me, the 'BEE' was rather small especially compared to 'Ruben's Nymph'.
However, since I'm thinking of joining a boat club with moorings {as opposed
to slips} I just may build another one.
Also, as a point of interest, I was told by Bernie Wolford that the reason
for making the sheer about 4 inches higher was so you wouldn't be 'pooped'
by your own stern-wave if you 'chopped' the throttle. The same footwell that
acts like a 'waterski' when on plane, becomes a sea anchor when you rapidly
drop off plane.
Regards,
Ron Magen
Backyard Boatshop
"DonB" <oi...@paradise.net.nz> wrote in message
news:3d4b50ce...@news.paradise.net.nz...
DonB
letter. I have reluctantly decided that there are better designs for a
dedicated tender than Bee. I will build a Bee someday just for the fun
factor!
Rubens Nymph looks a strong possibility I agree. I think the original
poster has a wish list that is not practical.
DonB
On Sat, 03 Aug 2002 13:21:58 GMT, "Ron Magen"
Ron Magen
Originally, I had gotten the plans for 'Nymph' from Dynamite. After a bit of
studying both the plans and my self {in a mirror}, I decided that 'my' beam
needed more beam. Dynamite was kind enough to exchange 'Nymph' for 'Rubens
Nymph'.
She was never in the water, and I sold her to a gentleman who's wife had one
of those muscle degeneration diseases. That extra foot of beam was
serendipity all around.
Within the same over-all length {and approximately the same dry weight}the
basic design allows two 'choices' . . . either the 3ft 6in or the 4ft 6in
beam. A nice thought when space on deck is a consideration.
Regards,
Ron Magen
Backyard Boatshop
"DonB" <oi...@paradise.net.nz> wrote in message
news:3d4c8c5...@news.paradise.net.nz...