Oar attachment ???? Thole pins again
Richard Barnes
never seen this in person I am still confused about how the oars are stopped
from moving in or outboard in use. A rope loop keeps them against the pins,
but they are free to wander along their length. Does a large "button" get
attached to the oars? Or is the rope loop supposed to get attached to the
oar somehow and then dropped over the thole pin? I am reluctant to drill a
hole through the oar at that spot to attach a rope.
I have built a neat way to move the thole pins to any location along the
gunnels, but it won't be much use if I can't figure out the other problem.
Thanks to Michael Colfer(sp?) and his oar building methods the oars came out
fine.
--
Richard Barnes
Skwaller Holler Sawmill
Jim Mewhinney
I have been lurking for sometime looking for oar building infomation.
Could you tell me how to get the info you found so useful?
FThoma
>Could you tell me how to get the info you found so useful?
Mystic Seaport Museum has a book
for about $15 called:
Oars for Pleasure Rowing, Their Design
and Use, by Andrew B. Steever. Lots
of info, with drawings and nomographs
on how to build the perfect set of oars.
Michael Porter
highlander leaves a boat with the oars in the water (or even still on
he gunwales), whether using thole pins or rowlocks.
"Richard Barnes" <oakbowe...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>OK I have the boat built and the thole pins are made , but because I have
>never seen this in person I am still confused about how the oars are stopped
>from moving in or outboard in use. A rope loop keeps them against the pins,
>but they are free to wander along their length. Does a large "button" get
>attached to the oars? Or is the rope loop supposed to get attached to the
>oar somehow and then dropped over the thole pin? I am reluctant to drill a
>hole through the oar at that spot to attach a rope.
>
>I have built a neat way to move the thole pins to any location along the
>gunnels, but it won't be much use if I can't figure out the other problem.
>
>Thanks to Michael Colfer(sp?) and his oar building methods the oars came out
>fine.
Michael Porter Naval Architect / Boatbuilder
mporter at mp-marine dot com
Antispam -- make the obvious changes
Gregg Germain
: OK I have the boat built and the thole pins are made , but because I have
: never seen this in person I am still confused about how the oars are stopped
: from moving in or outboard in use. A rope loop keeps them against the pins,
: but they are free to wander along their length. Does a large "button" get
: attached to the oars? Or is the rope loop supposed to get attached to the
: oar somehow and then dropped over the thole pin? I am reluctant to drill a
: hole through the oar at that spot to attach a rope.
The oars don't move in or out because you are holding onto
them.
The mor eimportant issue, you will find, is how to keep the oar from
rising UP as you pull back. The trick is to cant the oar forward a
trifle so that the blade drives the oar down onto th egunnel as you
pull.
--- Gregg
"Eschew surplusage."
gr...@head-cfa.harvard.edu
Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics Mark Twain
Phone: (617) 496-7237
Tom & Rita Hunter
Gregg Germain wrote:
> Richard Barnes <oakbowe...@mindspring.com> wrote:
> : OK I have the boat built and the thole pins are made , but because I have
> : never seen this in person I am still confused about how the oars are stopped
> : from moving in or outboard in use. A rope loop keeps them against the pins,
> : but they are free to wander along their length. Does a large "button" get
> : attached to the oars? Or is the rope loop supposed to get attached to the
> : oar somehow and then dropped over the thole pin? I am reluctant to drill a
> : hole through the oar at that spot to attach a rope.
>
> The oars don't move in or out because you are holding onto
> them.
>
> The mor eimportant issue, you will find, is how to keep the oar from
> rising UP as you pull back. The trick is to cant the oar forward a
> trifle so that the blade drives the oar down onto th egunnel as you
> pull.
>
> --- Gregg
>
And one more thing;
Being able to move the oars in and out is a good thing. When you are rowing on
open water you will be in many different wave and wind conditions. If you are
plowing into a headwind move the oars inboard and cross your hands slightly your
stroke will be easier and more fequent and you will make better way. When on a
following breeze push the oars out and your will get more leverage and speed.
Tom Hunter
Matt & Mary Colie
I suggest that you reconsider your options.
The matter of rowing a thole pin boat is not a trivial issue. I suspect from
your question that you have only dealt with "north river" (pinned) oarlocks. If
this is the case, either be very ready to spend a lot of time learning to handle
both oars and a boat as though you just started. Or fit the boat north river.
Someone in the responses said "they don't move because you are holding them",
and that is both the truth and just the beginning. The process is as completely
different as any two similar things can actually be.
If this has not dissuaded you, then find someone at a small boat museum to go to
and get him to take you along.
Thole pins and oil lamps are no longer in common use because of the level of
care required for successfull utilization.
A lengthy treatise on rowing with thole pins will not follow.
Matthew Colie a. sloop Bonne Ide'e
Lifelong Waterman, Licensed Mariner and Perpetual Sailor
Richard Barnes wrote:
> OK I have the boat built and the thole pins are made , but because I have
> never seen this in person I am still confused about how the oars are stopped
> from moving in or outboard in use. A rope loop keeps them against the pins,
> but they are free to wander along their length. Does a large "button" get
> attached to the oars? Or is the rope loop supposed to get attached to the
> oar somehow and then dropped over the thole pin? I am reluctant to drill a
> hole through the oar at that spot to attach a rope.
>
> I have built a neat way to move the thole pins to any location along the
> gunnels, but it won't be much use if I can't figure out the other problem.
>
> Thanks to Michael Colfer(sp?) and his oar building methods the oars came out
> fine.
Michael Colfer
>
> OK I have the boat built and the thole pins are made , but because I have
> never seen this in person I am still confused about how the oars are stopped
> from moving in or outboard in use. A rope loop keeps them against the pins,
> but they are free to wander along their length. Does a large "button" get
> attached to the oars? Or is the rope loop supposed to get attached to the
> oar somehow and then dropped over the thole pin? I am reluctant to drill a
> hole through the oar at that spot to attach a rope.
>
> I have built a neat way to move the thole pins to any location along the
> gunnels, but it won't be much use if I can't figure out the other problem.
>
> Thanks to Michael Colfer(sp?) and his oar building methods the oars came out
> fine.
> --
> Richard Barnes
> Skwaller Holler Sawmill
Hi Richard. Yes, you got the spelling right. I am glad the system
worked for you. You have seen by now the posts which say you do not
want your oar locked into one position, and those are correct. There is
no lock-in position with regular oar locks, either. Try it and see.
But be sure to leather your oars where they lie across the thole pins,
or they will wear badly at that point. Then keep the oar oiled once in
a while if they start to squeak or scuff.
Michael Colfer
Whidbey Island WA
Bob Goodman
Michael Colfer wrote:
>
> >
>> But be sure to leather your oars where they lie across the thole pins,
> or they will wear badly at that point. Then keep the oar oiled once in
> a while if they start to squeak or scuff.
>
nah, youre wrong there mike. let 'em wear out. then you
get to make another pair, and if he's like me, the second
pair will be even better than the first. anyway, mine are
still working great, and are the envy of all they guys on
dog island. but they are getting chewed up a little by the
thole pins. i'll have to replace them in a year or three.
you should patent your directions or something. thanks
again
bob
Nicholas Carey
> OK I have the boat built and the thole pins are made , but because I have
> never seen this in person I am still confused about how the oars are stopped
> from moving in or outboard in use. A rope loop keeps them against the pins,
> but they are free to wander along their length. Does a large "button" get
> attached to the oars? Or is the rope loop supposed to get attached to the
> oar somehow and then dropped over the thole pin? I am reluctant to drill a
> hole through the oar at that spot to attach a rope.
Don't drill a hole in the oar -- it makes a weak spot that will fail or
rot at some point.
The rope loop that keeps the oars in place on the tholeping is called a
'grommet' is should be (essentially) a circular long splice -- see Brian
Toss' book _The Complete Rigger's Apprentice_ for a good description of
how to make one. The grommet should be a somewhat tight fit, but the oars
should be free to move along their length. It's up to the oarsman to control
the in/out movement. Some rowers like the oar handles to overlap, some don't.
Some tholepins are set up so that, instead of a grommet, a lanyard attached
at the base of the tholepin on the outboard side, which comes up and over the
oar and is belayed on the inboard side to a small cleat. This has the
advantage of allowing the oarsman to tailor how much freeplay the oar is
allowed to suit her personal preferences.
You also need to be able to 'feather' your oar on the recovery -- that is,
rotate the blade more-or-less parallel to the surface of the water with the
leading edge slightly higher so that the blade skims along the surface on the
water. Less windage that way. Also remember that at the catch and during the
power stroke you shouldn't dig too deep. Less efficient that way.
> I have built a neat way to move the thole pins to any location along the
> gunnels, but it won't be much use if I can't figure out the other problem.
And in In article <39C6A143...@provide.net>, Matt & Mary Colie
<mco...@provide.net> wrote, somewhat snippily, I thought:
>The matter of rowing a thole pin boat is not a trivial issue. I suspect from
>your question that you have only dealt with "north river" (pinned) oarlocks.
>If this is the case, either be very ready to spend a lot of time learning to
>handle both oars and a boat as though you just started. Or fit the boat north
>river.
Really? I find tholepins *much* more intuitive than using metal locks, either
pinned or unpinned.
>Thole pins and oil lamps are no longer in common use because of the level of
>care required for successfull utilization.
You're wrong there. Oil lamps are no longer in use because electricity is
simultaneously cheaper, safer, cleaner and brighter. Tholepins are no longer
in common use because they break, grommets wear out and stretch, etc. It may
be instructive to note that, in Scandanavia and the Orkneys, tholepins are
*preferred* over metal locks.
N.
--
Greg Blanchette
having just completed a 1600-km row across the prairies in a punt so
equipped. I started with just the 'grommet,' or loop of line around pin
and oar, as I had seen in photos. This very quickly became tiresome
because the oars would migrate slowly in or out, requiring a lot of
attention from the rower to keep them at their assigned places.
I added a outboard lanyard by drilling a hole in the thole pin (not the
oar). Through this I led a piece of small line, which I knotted around
the oar down near its throat. Another knot at the thole pin kept the
line from slipping through the hole. This kept the oar from slipping
outward, without interfering with feathering or shipping the oar.
This was a great improvement, but eventually I added another, similar
line leading inboard to keep the oar from shifting thataway. It started
to depart a little from the elegance I'd been hoping for, but it lasted
fine and I could tinker with it in the field easily. This was more
important to me than peak efficiency using a hard-to-fix metal or
plastic oarlocks.
---Greg
Jacques Mertens
years and specify them as an alternative to oarlocks in some of my dinghy
designs.
Besides the single thole pin with a lashing, there is also a set up with two
thole pins and the oar in between. This is much easier to use and to
maintain. I always used "sacrificial" thole pins, you can make a whole bunch
from a broom stick, and wrapped my oars in leather.
The whole thing is not only cheap but much quieter than hardware, something
important if you go hunting in your boat or simply like to watch birds
without disturbing them.
--
Jacques Mertens
Boat Plans OnLine
http://www.bateau.com
"Greg Blanchette" <ab...@island.net> wrote in message
news:39DBB811...@island.net...
Matt & Mary Colie
Somewhat snippy it may have been, but after many attempts to teach the people what
I do and how I do it, it may just be. If someone (as Richard expressed to me in
private post) is willing to put out the significant effort to actually learn to do
this properly, I have always been happy to instruct. I am, however, not willing to
start unless the individual understands that this may not happen in a day. There
have been more than a few "I know how to row, just teach me to do what you just
did." They do not know how to handle a boat under oars, and are frustrated that it
may take several days to get close.
We have had two guests that watched me, asked some questions asked if they could
try and I let them (with some small rules set so they would not be difficult to
recover). Those were two of of many of the family guests, one went on to be a
serious soloshell competitor the other builds beautiful small boats (he builds them
for both pin and lock). If handling a thole pin is intuitive to you, you are in
the minority.
I have run into boats set up as you suggest with grommets and lanyards and could
never understand what that stuff was for. The oar will stay behind the pin if
handled right, and the oar should not be out of your hand while the blade is in the
water.
Yes - I grew up among at the knee of coastal waterman. They knew what it was
about. They did their best to help the "kid" (me for many seasons) understand not
only how but why they did what they did. Several had hunted whale from open boats
in their youth, others were doryman. Their world is gone. Thole pins in wooden
gunnels are one of those few things that seem to persist.
Thank You
Matthew Colie
Lifelong Waterman, Licensed Mariner and Congenital Sailor
Nicholas Carey wrote:
> Richard Barnes wrote:
>
> > OK I have the boat built and the thole pins are made , but because I have
> > never seen this in person I am still confused about how the oars are stopped
> > from moving in or outboard in use. A rope loop keeps them against the pins,
> > but they are free to wander along their length. Does a large "button" get
> > attached to the oars? Or is the rope loop supposed to get attached to the
> > oar somehow and then dropped over the thole pin? I am reluctant to drill a
> > hole through the oar at that spot to attach a rope.
>