Anyone installed this belt driven AC generator?
Cliff Sadler
US
engine, or any car/truck alternator.
Popular Science ran an article with plans on how to do it.
Alternators produce AC and then it is rectified to DC. The project in
Popular Science was a switch with outlets so you could run it either way you
want it, AC or DC or back and forth. There used to be kits you could buy at
parts stores, but it's very easy to build. If you want you can mount a car
alternator on a small engine, like a 5hp briggs. Put the adapter and have a
portable generator.
I used my cars alternator for 8 months so I could have AC on a job site.
Worked great. I do not know the actual wattage, but I ran all the power
tools I wanted and a heater.
Do a search on Popular Science or Mother Earth News for portable AC power
articles.
"Cliff Sadler" <sad...@docexpress.com> wrote in message
news:38877005...@docexpress.com...
> http://www.fabcopower.com/generat/bgen.htm
>
>
Lloyd Sumpter
>
> All alternators are capable of 120v AC. Yes the alternator on your present
> engine, or any car/truck alternator.
> Popular Science ran an article with plans on how to do it.
> Alternators produce AC and then it is rectified to DC. The project in
> Popular Science was a switch with outlets so you could run it either way you
> want it, AC or DC or back and forth. There used to be kits you could buy at
engine RPM. So some things (heater, lights) might work, but anything
electronic (microwave, TV, computer) probably won't and might get
damaged - Caveat Emptor!
Lloyd Sumpter
"Far Cove" Catalina 36
Cliff Sadler
but it doesn't state whether it would maintin
60 hz as the engine speed varied. They do
advertise that you would use one of these
if the engine speed varied (like driving).
Maybe it just maintains 110v, but the frequency
would be all over the place.....
US
engine. Non will be 60hz as they will have a square wave. About the only
thing square wave hurts is rechargeable batteries. I have run computer,
tv/vcr, microwave, stereo, water heater and about anything else you can
think of on square wave variable speed power.
Lloyd Sumpter
Yup, that's what a VOLTAGE regulator would to - regulate voltage (not
frequency).
--
"watching broadcast nus /i see th salmon talks will / resume on monday /
well thank god at leest th / salmon ar talking" - Bill Bissett
Lloyd Sumpter
Um, the shape of the wave has nothing to do with the frequency (it's a
separate problem). OK, technically you could say it does, because it
introduces harmonics, but they just need a filter (this is what some
cheap gensets or invertors put out). But the fundamental FREQUENCY of
the signal is determined by shaft speed. And if it's more than a little
off, a switching power supply like those found it computers would go
nuts. A non-switching PS would be OK, as well as anything that uses the
AC directly (heaters, lights...).
Glenn Ashmore
US wrote:
> Very true, but the same holds for any alternator run by belt or off an
> engine. Non will be 60hz as they will have a square wave. About the only
> thing square wave hurts is rechargeable batteries. I have run computer,
> tv/vcr, microwave, stereo, water heater and about anything else you can
> think of on square wave variable speed power.
No, the raw power coming off the alternator is going to be a sine wave. It
just will lack stable frequency and voltage. A dedicated AC genset can
control its engine speed to hold the frequency within a few % of 60Hz but
you din't have this ability when driven by the propulsion engine. That's
why AC systems that are powered by a propulsion engine rectify the current
to DC and then invert it back to 60 Hz/120V AC. That is what I believe the
blue box pictured in the referenced URL does. Those inverters usually
produce a square or modified sine wave to cut the expense. A pure sine wave
inverter cost at least 50% more to build.
I think either Balmar, Power Tap or Ample Power builds a DC genset from a 2
cylinder marinized Kubata deisel direct driving a big honkin' Balmar
alternator. They leave it to the customer to choose the inverter.
--
Glenn Ashmore
I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.mindspring.com/~gashmore
Bryon Kass
at a fixed speed for 60hz. The voltage also varies unless there is a built
in VR. This system uses an antiquated slip ring brush type system. The
industry all went brushless years ago for AC generation. Brushless is much
less maintenance and will take much larger surge loads. I do not have any
data on his system but can offer a simple brushless generator end fixed
speed 5kW for $400. No breakers, plugs or meters. These were intended for a
fixed speed engine but can be adapted to variable speed engine although they
will not work unless at designed speed. My dad has a similar Winco end on
his boat set up to run 3600rpm at 1400rpm engine speed. Either he revs his
diesel up to 1400 or cruises at that speed when he uses the generator.
Otherwise it just spins. Gas engines do not take well to being generators
without some kind of added governor.
--
Bryon Kass
THE ENGINE ROOM http://getit.at/engineroom
Lew Hodgett
>
> http://www.fabcopower.com/generat/bgen.htm
As long as you are willing to operate the driving engine at a fixed
RPM which will allow this unit to output 60 Hz, you will be able to
operate 120/60Hz appliances.
You may be, I'm not.
Lew
S/A: Challenge (Under Construction, still fairing in the Southland)
Visit:<http://home.earthlink.net/~lewhodgett> For Pictures
Jim Donohue
The information on the site is insufficient for an opinion. All message
respondents to date do not indicate that they have installed one.
Fabco obviously understands the field and knows about generating correct
frequencies and voltages. Without specifications and principle of
operations it is not possible to form an opinion. You might want to request
their literature and post the relevant parts.
Jim
Marty Gras
Cliff Sadler wrote in message <38877005...@docexpress.com>...
>http://www.fabcopower.com/generat/bgen.htm
>
>
I dont see Coast Guard approved anywhere.
Can you say BOOM?
Gary
Another member of the Loyal Order Of Bayliner Owners
Russ Barron
Army, it puts out 60 Hz AC at any rpm.
The company has big financial problems but interesting technology.
Lloyd Sumpter
60Hz from an alternator driven at variable speeds, rectify (and
regulate) the output to DC, then invert back to AC. That would work fine
(but expensive, if you want a decent 60Hz sine wave out of your
invertor).
Lloyd Sumpter
"Far Cove" Catalina 36
M.Holden
there is a good SAE article reprint on their web page, this thing I would
consider to instal [that is, if there was a 50 Hz version].
I didn't find prices there, though.
also, although great claims are made for reliability, from the description
of the system, I'm sure it would be [nearly] impossible for anyone to
repair without training from the company. in other words, unbolt it and
ship it back if it breaks, I guess.
it apparently rectifies to high voltage D.C., then inverts to sine wave
A.C.
5 KW is a lot of power to invert from low voltage [24 V.] D.C., and
inverters in that range are expensive. on the other hand, repair would be
more readily available, and the user could diagnose whether a problem was
from the alternator or inverter by himself.
the Fabco power one looks pretty poor to me. apparently there is some kind
of speed regulator [they call a 'venturi regulator'] for the engine, and
it will not put out a stable frequency while running at other speeds. they
also sell a voltage regulator for it to keep the voltage steady while
varying the engine speeds, for uses where frequency is not critical
[resistance heating and lighting].
they fail to state whether the 5 K.W. is a continuos rating.
for a boat engine, if you were willing to cruise along at 'generator
speed' you could rig any A.C. alternator to your engine, if it has a
governor [most diesels]. it could simply be rigged with a switch that
disconnects it from the load at unsuitable speeds.
I've been considering it myself to power my wife's 10.5 K.W. ceramic oven
when we're away from our mooring.
Mark Holden
Rod McInnis
Lloyd Sumpter wrote:
> But the fundamental FREQUENCY of
> the signal is determined by shaft speed. And if it's more than a little
> off, a switching power supply like those found it computers would go
> nuts. A non-switching PS would be OK, as well as anything that uses the
> AC directly (heaters, lights...).
I think you have that backwards!
A typical switching supply takes the incoming AC line and rectifies it
into ~150 VDC, and then uses that to run the switcher. There may be an
RF choke on the input, which is used to block high frequency noise from
going back out the line cord, but otherwise there won't be any
components that are sensitive to the shape or frequency of the input
voltage.
A typical linear supply, on the other hand, uses a transformer to
reduce the voltage and provide isolation. The design of the transformer
is based on the frequency. They can often work between 50 and 60 Hz,
but going much higher in frequency can dramatically change their
characteristics.
Devices with brush type motors, such as drill motors and saws, don't
care about the frequency either. They can run on just about anything,
including DC, as long as the voltage is proper. Things with induction
motors, such as refrigerators, are very sensitive to frequency and could
be damaged by such a device.
Rod McInnis
stee...@kickass.com
> For one thing all belt drive generator with this type drive need to be run
> at a fixed speed for 60hz. The voltage also varies unless there is a built
> in VR. This system uses an antiquated slip ring brush type system. The
> industry all went brushless years ago for AC generation. Brushless is much
> less maintenance and will take much larger surge loads. I do not have any
> data on his system but can
Please end the suspense- what rpm is this baby designed for? ?
>offer a simple brushless generator end fixed
> speed 5kW for $400. No breakers, plugs or meters. These were intended for a
> fixed speed engine
Like maybe 1800 rpm (would be very nice)? ?
> but can be adapted to variable speed engine although they
> will not work unless at designed speed. My dad has a similar Winco end on
> his boat set up to run 3600rpm at 1400rpm engine speed. Either he revs his
> diesel up to 1400 or cruises at that speed when he uses the generator.
> Otherwise it just spins. Gas engines do not take well to being generators
> without some kind of added governor.
>
> --
> Bryon Kass
> THE ENGINE ROOM http://getit.at/engineroom
Paul Kruse
wrote:
> Yup, that's what a VOLTAGE regulator would to - regulate voltage (not
>frequency).
The high dollar ones today put out very clean 60 Hz power at 110, 220,
or 440 VAC. Three phase or single phase is available, or so I'm told.
The largest one I've seen installed onto a gasoline engine was 10 kW,
but we have considered putting larger units onto some diesel engines.
I was talking with one of our design engineers today on the subject,
since he has installed them in a number of our applications. They are
also available in 400 Hz. The modern solid state equipment even gives
you cleaner AC power than a motor-generator UPS unit.
A cheap and dirty way of doing it is to use a simple rectifier and an
inverter. Basically, you make good clean 12 VDC and put it into a
battery, and then you use an inverter for whatever sort of AC power
you like. This is extremely common in both boats and RV's.
I also know several people with what they call a "cruising generator"
on their boats. In this case, the pullies are sized so that they get
clean 60 Hz at their prefered cruising speed. When they run at other
speeds, then the frequency changes. This is actually a very good idea
for cheap power on a long range powered cruiser or a passage maker.
You actually have quite a few choices for getting 110 VAC power onto
your boat. Aside from installing a separate generator with its own
engine, or a cruising generator that ties up your main engine at a
specific speed, or using a high capacity alternator with an inverter
and a storage battery, or a high dollar belt driven generator with the
electronics to give you a constant 60 Hz regardless of engine speed,
you also can install a hydraulic generator.
The hydraulic generator will come in at about the same cost as
installing the high dollar alternator, unless you already need a
hydraulic system for something else, like bow thrusters or anchor
winches. If you already have the hydraulic system, then the hydraulic
generator can be less expensive. Both will have the same result,
which will be constant electrical frequency, regardless of engine
speed. The place where the hydraulic generators are becoming common
are on electrically insulated bucket trucks, fire trucks, and
ambulances; but there is certainly no reason why one cannot be
installed onto a boat.
Boatless, but building M/V Doulos I and Doulos II
http://www.trawlerworld.com/abuilding/doulos001.html
Paul Kruse
plk...@iu.net
Port Canaveral, FL, USA
Anh Bao
> All alternators are capable of 120v AC. Yes the alternator on your present
> engine, or any car/truck alternator.
> Popular Science ran an article with plans on how to do it.
> Alternators produce AC and then it is rectified to DC. The project in
> Popular Science was a switch with outlets so you could run it either way you
> want it, AC or DC or back and forth. There used to be kits you could buy at
> alternator on a small engine, like a 5hp briggs. Put the adapter and have a
> portable generator.
> I used my cars alternator for 8 months so I could have AC on a job site.
> Worked great. I do not know the actual wattage, but I ran all the power
> tools I wanted and a heater.
> Do a search on Popular Science or Mother Earth News for portable AC power
> articles.
> news:38877005...@docexpress.com...
> > http://www.fabcopower.com/generat/bgen.htm
> >
> >
Belt Drive AC generator by The Chas Campbell System: https://kinetic-power-system.blogspot.com/p/belt-drive-ac-generator.html