Can I use Solid wire for rewiring sailboat if not WHY?
Ytter
boats.Could you give me some of your expertise?
Thank You,
Ytter
Tom Shilson
Use tinned, stranded wire. The stranded wire is more flexible and less
likely to break. The tinning prevents salt water/air from seeping under
the insulation and corroding the wire.
Tom
of the Sweetwater Sea
MMC
problems come from the terminals and connections on my 30 year old boat with
original wiring.
I know tinned is the latest and greatest, but not too many years back the
latest and greatest was lamp cord. I'm sure there is a new latest and
greatest just around the corner........
MMC
"Tom Shilson" <tshi...@netalliance.net> wrote in message
news:L%9tc.3626$UP5....@fe39.usenetserver.com...
Lew Hodgett
If you have to ask that question, don't even consider the job.
Boats are wired with tinned stranded wire based on some solid engineering.
--
Lew
S/A: Challenge, The Bullet Proof Boat, (Under Construction in the Southland)
Visit: <http://home.earthlink.net/~lewhodgett> for Pictures
Stanley Barthfarkle
boats, elevators, trains, etc. Solid wire is for buildings, signs, etc, that
never move. Movement will eventually break the wire (or just cause it to
weaken, creating a point of resistance that will be a fire hazard)
"Ytter" <katsk...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:lO8tc.45364$tb4.1...@news20.bellglobal.com...
MMC
This guy has a legitimate question in spirit with the newsgroup.
"Lew Hodgett" <lewho...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:ZVctc.12240$Tn6....@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
Michael Sutton
the factory for the "house" 110v circuits (like lights, plugs,
A/C, tv, etc..) what do they use?
do they use 110v 12 gauge solid core "romex" like they do
for home installations for do they acutally use stranded wire
in conduit? I just can't see all the boat manufactureres going
to this expense.
anyone?
"Stanley Barthfarkle" <sba...@yahoo.con> wrote in message news:<tEdtc.1094$n65....@newssvr33.news.prodigy.com>...
Backyard Renegade
> boats, elevators, trains, etc. Solid wire is for buildings, signs, etc, that
> never move. Movement will eventually break the wire (or just cause it to
> weaken, creating a point of resistance that will be a fire hazard)
Not to mention that stranded wire allows for more, in laymens terms,
flow of energy, less resistance in stranded wire... has to do with
surface area, but that is another story. Anyway, I almost agree with
the guy that said "if you have to ask,...", except I will say, if you
have to ask, you have a lot more reading to do :) Hopefully, your
origional question has been answered here.
Scotty
rhys
Sutton) wrote:
>
>do they use 110v 12 gauge solid core "romex" like they do
>for home installations for do they acutally use stranded wire
>in conduit? I just can't see all the boat manufactureres going
>to this expense.
Well, perhaps my experience will be instructive.
I have a 1973 racer cruiser made by Ontario Yachts, a reputable firm
known for solid boats (Ontario 28, 32, Niagara 35, etc.)
The electric wires in the boat are original except where I've changed
them. I intend to change all of them eventually, as I intend to
relocate the batteries, charger, etc. under a settee next to the mast
for better weight distribution.
The panel is little metal toggle switch with glass fuse holders with a
common positive side. Most of the DC power lines are very narrow, 20
or 22 gauge, to a terminal block in the head and aft and forward to
running lights. I replaced all mast wires with 12 gauge to spreader
lights, steaming and deck lights and 14 gauge to trilight and anchor
light. All DC wiring is tinned and stranded.
Wow, what a difference. Wait until I upgrade the cabin wiring and
replace the panel. The only exception to this is perhaps I will leave
the cabin lights with the old wiring, which is not in bad condition,
if I switch from 12 VDC auto light bulbs to LEDs...the LEDs draw so
little it is hardly worth the effort of drawing the cables through
cabinetry, etc.
I also replaced the stern light wire with 16 gauge to the panel.
Again, a gratifying jump in brightness.
All new hard-wired devices, like gas/propane alarm and solenoid, depth
sounder, etc. get 14 or 16 gauge Ancor wire to the panel depending on
draw. As I have a stock 35 amp alternator on my Atomic 4, I try to
avoid heavy draws where possible.
On the AC side, yes, there is obviously 10 gauge exterior Romex-type
wire going from the hook-up to a small 30 amp fuse box which uses the
"shotgun cartridge" style of brass-ended fuses. They haven't blown in
the five years I've owned the boat. The two pairs of AC outlets on the
boat are properly grounded, but the Romex is beginning to get
tired-looking. When I get a new panel next year I will replace it with
10 gauge marine wire because I want proper AC circuit breakers, a
hard-wired charger, a small inverter, full isolation and two extra
paired outlets, one in the V-berth so I can run power tools in the
anchor locker, and one in the nav station for a PC as we are getting
wireless networking at the YC and I like to download weather maps
before I cruise.
My other suggestion, depending on the length of your boat, is to
install a second AC hook-up. Mine is in the cockpit and the 50 foot
cord must cross about 31 feet of deck, 5 feet of Zodiac, 6 feet of
dock finger and 4 feet of rise to get to the plug. Far better, I
think, would be to have a second plug at the bow
end...somewhere...allowing a shorter cord to be used and giving one
the opinion of docking in other slips stern in or bow in without
hauling too much or too little shore power cord. Less stuff on deck
that way as well.
Hope this helps. I am learning as well and quite enjoying myself. I
won't miss those little glass fuses, I can tell you.
R.
Steve Lusardi
As a rule you should use FINE tin plated stranded wire. It should be
sheathed with either fiberglass or metal braiding. It can be ordered from an
industrial wire supply house. It cost more than other type wire, but the
overall cost difference at the job level is minimal. Just as importantly,
you should consider the mode of most common failure of wiring. That is
corrosion at the wire terminal interface. To avoid the moisture migration
cause, you should use crimp terminals without insulation and a crimping tool
that provides enough pressure that the terminal to wire connection actually
welds. Then shrink tubing is applied and after the terminal is installed the
entire connection should be painted with a rubber compound. This also can be
ordered from the industrial supplier or directly from OMC.
Steve
"Ytter" <katsk...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:lO8tc.45364$tb4.1...@news20.bellglobal.com...
MMC
Have you come up with a model/plan for your LED lighting? There was a guy
some time ago (in this newsgroup) who had used 12vdc LED trailer lighting (I
believe from JC Whitney) in his boat. It gave an amber glow and was mounted
under the decks on either side of the cabin. Looked good. That msg string
included some very high tech-high price options.
I might get string of those LEDs and experiment....
"rhys" <rh...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:li2cb0da8dfsbbkiv...@4ax.com...
dbraun
part correct and reason enough to use tinned stranded wire. I am sure
that
the only reason you are disuaded from using real marine wire is cost, but
I just bought 1000' of 14/2 for 24 cents a foot here:
http://www.blackav.com/bai.php?page=11
their website was out of commission last I checked, but their phone
number
is 724-379-8628
To answer all the sceptics, YES, this is tinned, stranded, duplex UL1426
CG approved marine wire.
David
S/V Nausicaa
Rod McInnis
> boats.Could you give me some of your expertise?
The proper wire to use is stranded.
As others have said, the reason for this is that it is better for dealing
with vibration.
Another reason that YOU should use the proper wire is that it could become
very important if you ever plan on selling this boat. If a prospective
buyer has a survey done and the surveyor finds (and he should) that the boat
has been rewired with solid wire you may be looking at a rather expensive
job to restore the boat to a proper wiring configuration.
Rod McInnis
Rod McInnis
"Michael Sutton" <mike_sutt...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:4ffb8c12.04052...@posting.google.com...
> When boat manufacturers install 110v wiring in a boat at
> the factory for the "house" 110v circuits (like lights, plugs,
> A/C, tv, etc..) what do they use?
>
Stranded wire.
Note that the electrical outlets are different than the typical household
outlets as a result. An outlet that is designed for solid wire won't work
for stranded.
Rod
Glenn Ashmore
Rod McInnis wrote:
> Stranded wire.
>
> Note that the electrical outlets are different than the typical
> household outlets as a result. An outlet that is designed for solid
> wire won't work for stranded.
They are exactly the same. You just don't use the push in connector.
Use the screw terminals with crimp on ring terminals.
--
Glenn Ashmore
I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com
QLW
I've never see this done but the manufacturers so there must be some
negative reason but I've not found it.
"Steve Lusardi" <steve...@lusardi.de> wrote in message
news:c959mm$sbg$04$1...@news.t-online.com...
dazed and confuzed
> I usually solder connector on my boat and have never found this to fail.
> I've never see this done but the manufacturers so there must be some
> negative reason but I've not found it.
Cost of assembly. It gets the boat out of the door, and it works long
enough to last until the end of the warranty.
--
the most committed always win
dazed and confuzed
> On 27 May 2004 07:54:14 -0700, mike_sutt...@yahoo.com (Michael
> Sutton) wrote:
>
>
>>do they use 110v 12 gauge solid core "romex" like they do
>>for home installations for do they acutally use stranded wire
>>in conduit? I just can't see all the boat manufactureres going
>>to this expense.
>
>
> Well, perhaps my experience will be instructive.
>
>
> The panel is little metal toggle switch with glass fuse holders with a
> common positive side. Most of the DC power lines are very narrow, 20
> or 22 gauge, to a terminal block in the head and aft and forward to
> running lights. I replaced all mast wires with 12 gauge to spreader
> lights, steaming and deck lights and 14 gauge to trilight and anchor
> light. All DC wiring is tinned and stranded.
>
> Wow, what a difference. Wait until I upgrade the cabin wiring and
> replace the panel. The only exception to this is perhaps I will leave
> the cabin lights with the old wiring, which is not in bad condition,
> if I switch from 12 VDC auto light bulbs to LEDs...the LEDs draw so
> little it is hardly worth the effort of drawing the cables through
> cabinetry, etc.
>
> I also replaced the stern light wire with 16 gauge to the panel.
> Again, a gratifying jump in brightness.
This has more to do with proper wire sizing than new wire or stranded wire.
Tom Shilson
>
> Cost of assembly. It gets the boat out of the door, and it works long
> enough to last until the end of the warranty.
>
I agree. The crimp is for a solid mechanical connection. The solder
gives a good electrical connection and resists corrosion.
Lew Hodgett
"Glenn Ashmore" writes:
> They are exactly the same. You just don't use the push in connector.
> Use the screw terminals with crimp on ring terminals.
There are at least 4 grades of duplex receptacles.
1) The "strip and stuff" residential designed for solid wire.
You strip the wire then stuff it in the hole on the back of the receptacle.
Strictly a low cost residential device.
2) Light Commercial grade designed for either solid or stranded wire, a side
wired device.
3) "Spec Grade", heavy duty industrial, designed for either solid or
stranded wire. Can be back or side wired.
4) "Hospital Grade", same as spec grade except with better performance
characteristics for the most difficult of all receptacle applications, the
hospital.
Hospital grade devices have a green dot on the face.
None of these devices are designed to require terminals, but if used in a
side wired application, the terminal certainly should NOT be soldered to the
wire.
HTH
none
what an absurd response!
For the willing: solid wire is intended for Ac because the current travels
thru the average of the thicknessas it alternates polarity. Dc travels on
the outside (skin effect) due to mutual repulsion of the electrons;
therefore stranded wire is best for high current loads of Dc. If the wire
is well supported and larger than necessary for the rated current AND
cheap enough vs stranded, then go with it. Otherwise, stranded.
rick
On Thu, 27 May 2004 03:05:29 GMT, Lew Hodgett <lewho...@earthlink.net>
wrote:
> RE: Subject
>
> If you have to ask that question, don't even consider the job.
>
> Boats are wired with tinned stranded wire based on some solid
> engineering.
>
>
--
Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/
Jim Conlin
up into the stranded wire and stiffen the wire back to a hard spot which, being
concealed by the insulation, can fatigue without being seen.
JAXAshby
>I've never see this done but the manufacturers so there must be some
>negative reason but I've not found it.
solder connections fail under high load conditions
JAXAshby
>gives a good electrical connection and resists corrosion.
>
wrong. solder connections fail under high load conditions.
CRIMP for current, solder for corrosion resistence. In that order.
JAXAshby
high school sophomores.
QLW
load conditions" If a wire gets hot enough to melt solder then that circuit
is greatly overloaded and the fuse should have failed long before reaching
that point.
"JAXAshby" <jaxa...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040527231634...@mb-m19.aol.com...
Terry King
says...
> For the willing: solid wire is intended for Ac because the current travels
> thru the average of the thicknessas it alternates polarity. Dc travels on
> the outside (skin effect) due to mutual repulsion of the electrons;
--
Regards, Terry King ...In The Woods In Vermont
te...@terryking.us
"The one who dies with the most parts LOSES! What do you need??"
JAXAshby
>load conditions"
when the connection is soldered it lacks mechanical integrity. solder is soft
and any chance of movement -- any, even walking on a floor near the equipment
in a building -- loosens the connection until it eventualy fails. Even if
after soldering the connection is clamped TIGHTLY with a mechanical clamp it
eventually fails.
If the connection is FIRST clamped TIGHTLY mechanically and _then_ soldered for
corrosion protection all if right and holy.
Brian Whatcott
those used for power transmission. Start thinking about it at perhaps
5 MHz up. Skin effect is actually absent at DC
[in response to another well-intentioned post from someone else...]
2) an equal diameter of stranded and solid power line passing equal
currents, shows the stranded line getting hotter, with more volt drop,
because the resistance per unit length is higher for stranded.
Please don't share knowledge with us, willing or not, unless you're
sure. There's always someone to spot a misconception.
Brian W
On Thu, 27 May 2004 22:29:52 -0300, none <rick...@centralpets.com>
wrote:
Keith
wire. It's not Ancor brand, but the same spec. Also, our local Home Depot
acutally carries a decent selection of marine stuff, including wire, nylon
terminals, etc.
Oh yea, while on the subject of terminals, be sure to use a good double
crimp ratcheting crimper and good terminals. You can find both at
http://www.terminaltown.com. They have all kinds of wiring stuff, including
mil spec connectors if you're really picky!
--
Keith
__
It's only unethical if you get caught.
"dbraun" <dbr...@omnipost.com> wrote in message
news:127ea74093ecd403...@localhost.talkaboutboats.com...
Keith
to the wire and fasten it to the screw on the side.
--
Keith
__
Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool.
"Rod McInnis" <rmcinnis_...@iname.com> wrote in message
news:c95ka...@news2.newsguy.com...
QLW
assertions...so I'm going to stop right here and avoid the name calling that
usually comes next. But I can give many examples that will prove the
statement below completely unfounded. I solder all of the wires on trailers
that I build (and I build a lot of them) and they are subjected to lots of
movement and vibration and never fail. Sometimes the wires will get pulled
apart but not the soldered joint. Huge numbers of soldered electronic
equipment in high vibration service routinely last a lifetime without
failure. The mechanical connection is far more likely to loosen, that's why
we have loctite and NyLocks. Anyway, my participation in this thread is
ended. It is obvious that Jax is more interested in "winning arguments"
than in meaningful posts and in reading some of his past posts, name calling
is next.
"JAXAshby" <jaxa...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040528072854...@mb-m17.aol.com...
Dan Best
Thanks - Dan
BinaryBillTheSailor@Sea++.com wrote:
> Power wires should NEVER be soldered. It's against NEC and NFPA code
> for good reason. It's not safe.
>
> BB
--
Dan Best - (707) 431-1662, Healdsburg, CA 95448
B-2/75 1977-1979
Tayana 37 #192, "Tricia Jean"
http://rangerbest.home.comcast.net/TriciaJean.JPG
Rod McInnis
"Glenn Ashmore" <gash...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:G5vtc.3$W01.0@okepread01...
> > Note that the electrical outlets are different than the typical
> > household outlets as a result. An outlet that is designed for solid
> > wire won't work for stranded.
>
> They are exactly the same. You just don't use the push in connector.
> Use the screw terminals with crimp on ring terminals.
The marine grade electrical outlets that I have used all have a clamp system
for securing stranded wire. You insert the wire into the hole in the back,
just like the household units. But instead of it being a "one way" catch,
the screw on the side tightens down the clamp.
Rod
Rod McInnis
"none" <rick...@centralpets.com> wrote in message
news:opr8orr2...@news.eastlink.ca...
>
>
> For the willing: solid wire is intended for Ac because the current travels
> thru the average of the thicknessas it alternates polarity. Dc travels on
> the outside (skin effect) due to mutual repulsion of the electrons;
You have that backwards. Skin effect is an AC phenomenon. Here, check out
this web page from Institute for Telecommunications Sciences:
http://www.its.bldrdoc.gov/fs-1037/dir-033/_4923.htm
Note that skin effect is only significant at high frequencies. There is no
significant skin effect at 60 cycle per second.
Rod
Steve Lusardi
is subject to motion or vibration. The solder creates a stress concentration
at the end of the solder, which in time will cause the wire to break right
at the joint. That is why it should never be done. Those that have done this
and not experienced a failure are simply lucky.
Steve
"QLW" <Qwe...@ev1.net> wrote in message
news:10bcvkt...@corp.supernews.com...
Steve Lusardi
resistive connection and it can be undetectable until it overheats. Please
review my previous advice and use a crimping tool that creats a very high
pressure crimp.
Steve
"Tom Shilson" <tshi...@netalliance.net> wrote in message
news:_jwtc.1794$fw6....@fe39.usenetserver.com...
Steve Lusardi
soldering will create the stress concentration, which can fail slowly
through minute cracks creating a resistive connection, which allows more and
more circuit voltage to drop accross the joint. This heats the joint, and
creates enbrittlement of the joint and wire and so on. This is not rocket
science folks. It is common sense.
Steve
"JAXAshby" <jaxa...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040528072854...@mb-m17.aol.com...
dazed and confuzed
dazed and confuzed
> http://www.jamestowndistributors.com has pretty good prices on tinned marine
> wire. It's not Ancor brand, but the same spec. Also, our local Home Depot
> acutally carries a decent selection of marine stuff, including wire, nylon
> terminals, etc.
>
> Oh yea, while on the subject of terminals, be sure to use a good double
> crimp ratcheting crimper and good terminals. You can find both at
> http://www.terminaltown.com. They have all kinds of wiring stuff, including
> mil spec connectors if you're really picky!
>
THe ratcheting crimper is the key. Properly done, a crimp connection is
as good as a soldered joint.
dazed and confuzed
> On Fri, 28 May 2004 18:03:11 GMT, Dan Best <d...@dbhome.org> wrote:
>
>
>>I didn't know that. Why is it not safe? What problems can it cause?
>>
>
>
> In some situations the wire could heat up enough to soften or even
> melt the solder before tripping a breaker. This could result in the
> joint coming apart, and the free ends could then contact something
> else, including a human. The other problem if the solder melts is that
> molten solder could drip and bridge two things that should not be
> bridged, or land on something flammable. These things don't happen a
> lot, but they have happend enough to be included in wiring and safety
> codes. Many codes relate to things that rarely occur, but have serious
> consequences when they DO occur. How often does a smoke detector have
> to save your life to be worthwhile?
>
> BB
>
>
>
>>Thanks - Dan
>>
>>BinaryBillTheSailor@Sea++.com wrote:
>>
>>>On Thu, 27 May 2004 19:03:47 -0500, dazed and confuzed
>>><ded...@netnitco.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>QLW wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I usually solder connector on my boat and have never found this to fail.
>>>>>I've never see this done but the manufacturers so there must be some
>>>>>negative reason but I've not found it.
>>>>
>>>>Cost of assembly. It gets the boat out of the door, and it works long
>>>>enough to last until the end of the warranty.
>>>
>>>
>>>Power wires should NEVER be soldered. It's against NEC and NFPA code
>>>for good reason. It's not safe.
>>>
>>>BB
>
>
if a connection is properly engineered, I.E., the terminal and wire are
sized correctly, the breaker is sized correctly, and the post that the
terminal is connected to is the correct size, then the solder will not
melt before the breaker trips.
Matt Colie
made up of solid copper bars) inside an 800 megawatt generator (unit 2
Monroe MI) all soldered at the joints?
I watched them do this during a repair thirty years ago.
Matt Colie
BinaryBillTheSailor@Sea++.com wrote:
> On Fri, 28 May 2004 20:55:06 +0200, "Steve Lusardi" <steve...@lusardi.de>
> wrote:
>
>
>>Tom, you are incorrect. A solder joint under vibration can easily create a
>>resistive connection and it can be undetectable until it overheats. Please
>>review my previous advice and use a crimping tool that creats a very high
>>pressure crimp.
>>Steve
>>
>
>
> Vibration is not the only consideration, as it is illegal to solder power
> connections in a building - at least in the U.S. The bottom line is that solder
> is inappropriate for power wires anywhere, other than in a few very specific
> applications. Unless you are manufacturing electronic devices, you are unlikely
> to encounter those applications.
>
> BB
Mike
is the heat being generated in a defective solder joint and that heat is
passed on to the connected wires. I've had to rebuild several power
supplies where the breakers/fuses never tripped/popped until after the wire
insulation melted off of the wires and the wires came in contact with each
other or ground.
Pass the crimpers please.
Mike B
USAF Retired
30 Year Electronics Tech.
"dazed and confuzed" <ded...@netnitco.net> wrote in message
news:yeSdnQ4LI7X...@netnitco.net...
JAXAshby
JAXAshby
>
soldered connections loosen and fail
JAXAshby
>lot,
I have seen it.
JAXAshby
>sized correctly, the breaker is sized correctly, and the post that the
>terminal is connected to is the correct size, then the solder will not
>melt before the breaker trips.
it does not "melt", dude. it softens to the point that the connection fails,
THEN it melts, because the connection is barely there.
JAXAshby
maybe you don't, but the informed opinion does.
JAXAshby
>and not experienced a failure are simply lucky.
and damned few in number
JAXAshby
JAXAshby
>as good as a soldered joint.
no. a crimp connection is ALWAYS better.
Never, never, never, never is a soldered conection anywhere "as good as" a
crimped connection.
crimp first --and correctly -- for connection integrity, THEN solder if you
wish for corrosion protection.
Evan Gatehouse
> NEVER solder an electrical connection within a vehicle or any machine that
> is subject to motion or vibration. The solder creates a stress
concentration
> at the end of the solder, which in time will cause the wire to break right
> at the joint. That is why it should never be done. Those that have done
this
> and not experienced a failure are simply lucky.
> Steve
Generally I crimped and soldered all connections on my boat. IMO there is
little motion or vibration of well supported wires within a boat's
structure.
HOWEVER (and this is a big one), I would NOT solder connections to wires
that are attached to the engine, where there is significant vibration. I
had an alternator output wire fail right at the end of the solder
connection, which seemed to be an obvious fatigue failure. Could have been
nasty if it hadn't broken cleanly away.
--
Evan Gatehouse
you'll have to rewrite my email address to get to me
ceilydh AT 3web dot net
(fools the spammers)
dazed and confuzed
> On Fri, 28 May 2004 16:13:02 -0500, dazed and confuzed <ded...@netnitco.net>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>>if a connection is properly engineered, I.E., the terminal and wire are
>>sized correctly, the breaker is sized correctly, and the post that the
>>terminal is connected to is the correct size, then the solder will not
>>melt before the breaker trips.
>
>
>
> BB
In the real world nothing is perfect. You are betting your life on the
fact that a crimp is perfect as well. Most (not all) solder terminals
have some sort of minimal mechanical connection to hold the conductor in
the terminal until it is soldered.
How do you know that the crimp terminal was done properly? Yet you are
willing to "bet your life" on the fact that it is. It's harder to tell
if a crimped terminal is done improperly than a soldered one.
There is a place for soldered and a place for crimped connections. Yet
either is a good connection IF done properly. If not, either will fail.
The fools are the ones that crimp and then solder.
Terry King
> fact that a crimp is perfect as well. Most (not all) solder terminals
> have some sort of minimal mechanical connection to hold the conductor in
> the terminal until it is soldered.
In Military aircraft, (some years ago in my experience) only soldered
connections were approved. Only stranded wire was used, and a clip-on
heatsink was used on a small (say 1/8 inch on #16 wire) area just
outside the lug, so solder could not 'wick' into the rest of the
stranded wire, which would degrade the vibration resistance of the wire.
Inspectors had to see the soldered connection before sleeving was
applied over the wire end and lug.
Initially I thought this was a little over-conservative. Then I
realized it was my friends from High School who were flying those F4's
and at 500 MPH close to the ground those connections mattered.
--
Regards, Terry King ...In The Woods In Vermont
te...@terryking.us
"The one who dies with the most parts LOSES! What do you need??"
JAXAshby
>connections were approved.
Are you sure? That is totally at various with ALL practises I have seen at
anytime in the last 25 years in anything electrical.
I have seen solder then crimp connections fail again and again, even though
they were specifically forbidden. never saw a crimp then solder connection
fail. crimp then solder is industry requirement, and has been for a very long
time. there is a good reason for that.
JAXAshby
really? It has been industry standard and required since the early 70's.
there is a reason for that.
dazed and confuzed
soldering is adding a failure point. If the terminal is designed to be a
solder joint, it usually has a low pressure crimp designed to hold the
conductor and terminal together until the solder is applied. If you
solder a high pressure crimp terminal, you weaken the crimp, allowing
the terminal to "relax" at due to the heat of soldering.
I think we are talking about 2 different types of terminals.
JAXAshby
Rodney
> what an absurd response!
> For the willing: solid wire is intended for Ac because the current travels
> thru the average of the thicknessas it alternates polarity. Dc travels on
> the outside (skin effect) due to mutual repulsion of the electrons;
> therefore stranded wire is best for high current loads of Dc. If the wire
> is well supported and larger than necessary for the rated current AND
> cheap enough vs stranded, then go with it. Otherwise, stranded.
> rick
>
>
Skin effect is something that occurs at higher frequencies. At DC the
electron distribution is equal through the CS of the wire. Skin
effect can usually be ignored below 50 kHz.
Rodney
Evan Gatehouse
<BinaryBillTheSailor@Sea++.com> wrote in message
news:ln3ib0t53gvommhcl...@4ax.com...
>
> Sorry, Bub, but you are completely wrong. All the applicable codes say
you
> cannot solder those connections, and that's been the law for ages. As
someone
> has already pointed out, if you solder all the connections in your boat,
it is
> going to cost you big time at resale time, as it will all have to be
ripped out
> and redone properly at SOMEBODY'S expense. The boat will be uninsurable
and no
> bank will finance it either, with that hack wiring job.
> Power wires should NEVER be soldered. It's against NEC and NFPA code
> for good reason. It's not safe.
>
> BB
Don't get people stressed out. Boats are NOT covered by the NEC - it is for
buildings. I don't know about NFPA but I suspect they are also exempt there
too. If you solder the connections in your boat, it is perfectly o.k.
according to ABYC.
Some stuff from ABYC (stuff snipped)
http://www.cmsquick.com/tech_abyc_E.html :
Wiring connections shall be designed and installed to make mechanical and
electrical joints without damage to the conductors (E8&9).
Twist-on connectors (wire nuts) shall not be used (E8&9).
Solder shall not be the sole means of the mechanical connection in any
circuit. Exception: Battery lugs with a solder contact length of not less
than 1.5 times the diameter of the conductor (E9.16.K8)
Solderless crimp-on connectors shall be attached with the type of crimping
tools designed for the connector used and which will produce a connection
meeting the requirements of ABYC (E8.15.14 and E9.15.K4).
Matt
the detail to qualify the information provided.
My contribution to this discussion is the following URL to Boat US
Electrical.
There are many other good articles there as well.
http://www.boatus.com/boattech/cable.htm
"Ytter" <katsk...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:lO8tc.45364$tb4.1...@news20.bellglobal.com...
> I've heard different opinions what kind of wire is better for wiring
> boats.Could you give me some of your expertise?
> Thank You,
> Ytter
>
>
Steven Shelikoff
>Sorry, Bub, but you are completely wrong. All the applicable codes say you
>cannot solder those connections, and that's been the law for ages. As someone
>has already pointed out, if you solder all the connections in your boat, it is
>going to cost you big time at resale time, as it will all have to be ripped out
>and redone properly at SOMEBODY'S expense. The boat will be uninsurable and no
>bank will finance it either, with that hack wiring job.
Soldering connections on a boat is perfectly fine as long as the
connection is supported by a strain relief. In fact, a well done solder
joint+strain relief is considered by most to be far superior to a
crimped on connection. Solder without strain relief is a no-no.
Steve
JAXAshby
>joint+strain relief is considered by most to be far superior to a
>crimped on connection.
considered by whom? certainly not the electrical industry at any time in the
last 35 years.
but, stveie, go ahead and solder. you know more than the pros do anyway.
[geesh, what dumb clucks]
Bob La Londe
find it on automobiles. The vehicle moves and shakes, and in the case of
many boats it flexes. This would cause the wire no mater how well secured
to move and flex. It will inevitable succomb to metal fatigue over time.
In some cases it might take years, but it will fail. In some cases it could
fail fairly quickly.
--
Public Fishing Forums
Fishing Link Index
www.YumaBassMan.com
webmaster
at
YumaBsssMan
dot
com
Steven Shelikoff
>Incorrect. A boat will not pass an insurance survey if the electrical system has
>been soldered. That's all that really matters. No insurability = no resale, no
>marinas or yacht clubs, no financing.
Incorrect. Many boats with soldered electrical connections have passed
insurance surveys and are in marinas all over as well as are financed.
If your surveyor fails your boat due to soldered connections, ask him
why he's going against ABYC electrical standards since the ABYC rules
allow for soldered connections as long as the solder is not the sole
means of mechanical support for the joint, which makes sense.
ABYC E-8.15.19 Solder shall not be the sole means of mechanical
connection in any circuit. If soldered, the connection shall be so
located or supported as to minimize flexing of the conductor where the
solder changes the flexible conductor into a solid conductor.
Exception: Battery lugs with a solder contact length of not less than
1.5 times the diameter of the conductor.
Steve
JAXAshby
Charlie Johnson
ABYC E-11 is being revised to eliminate the allowance for soldered/crimped
terminations and specify crimped only.
Charlie
"Evan Gatehouse" <NO...@sasaf.bobo> wrote in message
news:40b98...@news.cybersurf.net...
Rosalie B.
>On Thu, 27 May 2004 19:03:47 -0500, dazed and confuzed
><ded...@netnitco.net> wrote:
>
>>QLW wrote:
>>> I usually solder connector on my boat and have never found this to fail.
>>> I've never see this done but the manufacturers so there must be some
>>> negative reason but I've not found it.
>>
>>Cost of assembly. It gets the boat out of the door, and it works long
>>enough to last until the end of the warranty.
>
>Power wires should NEVER be soldered. It's against NEC and NFPA code
>for good reason. It's not safe.
>
The National Electrical Code is for structures and even then is not
universally applicable. It is not the code followed in Chicago for
instance. Also different countries in the world have different codes.
You cannot just state that everything that is against a specific code
is unsafe and should not be allowed without looking at what the code
is meant to cover.
National Fire Protection Association codes are meant to protect
structures against fire damage and loss. They are consensus standards
and are not the ultimate in fire protection other than for buildings.
OSHA took the NFPA standards (consensus standards) and some of the NEC
and made them into regulatory standards for protection of workers.
Some of them do not do that and make no sense in that context. So
again - you cannot just apply standards without knowing where the
standards have come from and what their purpose is. Some standards
are absolutely minimum standards.
So maybe wires should not be soldered because it 'isn't safe', but you
can't determine whether it is safe or not just by citing the
standards. You have to know the reason and logic (if any) behind the
standards. Conflicting standards can often be cited and in this case
ABYC standards (note - these standards are FOR BOATS) say, or have
said in the past, that soldering wires is not unsafe.
grandma Rosalie
dazed and confuzed
>
>
> I mentioned NEC and NFPA as recognized standards for good reason. They are the
> result of not just engineering, but also compiled and analyzed data from actual
> events. The ABYC standards tend to flow from standards such as these. The ABYC
> standards in fact, are in the process of being updated to match these tried and
> true, universally accepted standards. Solder is sometimes okay for signal wires,
> not power wires. I have already posted some of the things that are bad about it
> earlier in this thread. This is nothing new.
NEC and NFPA are a conglomeration of standards written in the past
(sometimes as long ago as 1935) to which have been added regulations and
standards yearly until present day. Quite often, standards in one
section contradict standards in other sections. They fail to take into
account changes in materials as well as changes in technology. While
some of these codes are based on good engineering, many of them are
obsolete. Basing a boats DC power wiring standards on high current high
amperage AC wiring standards for residential or industrial applications
is foolish.
Enough arguing. Thanks for your opinion. You've heard mine.
I'm done.
--
I ain't looking for trouble,.....but you can find it here.
Steven Shelikoff
>Your mistake to make, I guess. It will be an expensive one.
No mistake at all. Anyone who knows anything about electrical
connections will tell you that a properly soldered joint is electrically
superior to a crimped joint. And if it's properly supported, that
removes the one problem with a soldered joint, stress at the
stranded/solid junction. That's why the ABYC allows for soldered wiring
on boats if the there is another mechanical support to remove stress and
vibration on the solder junction.
I guess we should ask you where you got the idea that soldered wiring
will, in and of itself, cause a boat to fail an insurance survey despite
the ABYC allowing it? Especially when many boats pass insurance surveys
even if they don't meet all of the ABYC rules. In fact, it's a rare
boat indeed that doesn't violate any of the ABYC rules. One that meets
all of them is pretty much a gauranteed pass.
Steve
rhys
>Rhys,
>Have you come up with a model/plan for your LED lighting?
No, not other than replacing the cabin "spot" lights (the ones
primarily for reading placed over berths and so on) with the bayonet
style LEDs that cost $19 but are alleged to last 100,000 hours (I may
not last that long, so it's good to go for me!)
There was a guy
>some time ago (in this newsgroup) who had used 12vdc LED trailer lighting (I
>believe from JC Whitney) in his boat. It gave an amber glow and was mounted
>under the decks on either side of the cabin. Looked good. That msg string
>included some very high tech-high price options.
>I might get string of those LEDs and experiment....
I think that's a great idea. Area lighting and spot or purpose
lighting on a boat are two different things. Generally, I have little
use for the former: if I have people over for drinks and nosh, a few
candles and maybe a kerosene lamp provide all the light and
"atmosphere" I require. Essentially, I am talking about cabin spots
for reading and maybe for the nav station.
Using LEDs for running lights is still an unknown quantity for me,
but I am considering equipping my Zodiac tender with an LED tricolour
run off the Honda OB alternator (magneto?), all of which is 12 VDC.
As I am under 10 HP, I don't legally require nav lights, but I prefer
to be seen as I use the calm late nights to plane around Toronto
Island, which is heavily trafficked with "disco boats".
R.
rhys
<ded...@netnitco.net> wrote:
>
>This has more to do with proper wire sizing than new wire or stranded wire.
yes, I agree. Older boats seem to have "cheaped out" with wire runs,
and it's a no-brainer to get thicker wire--stranded is preferred--and
to see immediate results at the amp meter and the masthead.
R.
Rusty O
every year. While it does date back to the early years of the last century,
it has kept up to date with new materials and technology. As an example,
they added a section on recharging stations for electric powered cars some
time ago. There are sections on computer networks and wiring systems to
allow for the use of switching power supplies. ( They can overload the
neutral conductor.) Some areas do not 'adopt' the NEC as their standards.
The state of Oregon reviews it each issue, adds their own 'Adendum' and
adopts the package about six months after issue.
The NEC has been re-written to make itself more universally accepted. Some
foreign countries are considering using it for their requirements. It is far
from obsolete.
Rusty O
Robert Larder
<SNIP>
wrong thing to do. This is nothing new. Try
> to find a new boat (ONE
> boat) wired from the factory using solder. You won't. HINT: It's
> called "product liability lawsuits".
>
> BB
I suspect it`s called "cheaper to crimp than to solder".
Bob Larder
Steven Shelikoff
>I guess that's why the U.S. military doesn't use solder in any of it's aircraft
>wiring.
And where did you hear that little tidbit of incorrect information? The
military and NASA both use soldered connections where appropriate.
There are MIL and NASA specs governing soldered connections. And while
engsol gave a good lesson in soldering connections in an offshoot
thread, if you want to see the NASA spec on soldered connections, it's
here:
http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/codeq/solder.htm
If you look at the part of the document in
http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/codeq/sdr1922.pdf you'll see pictures of
acceptable soldered connection of a multistranded wire into a cup pin
termination. I know from personal knowledge that this kind of
connection is found on the inside of connectors on many military
aircraft. The connector has support for the wire at it's exit so there
is no strain or vibration at the stranded to solid wire junction.
>>And if it's properly supported, that
>>removes the one problem with a soldered joint, stress at the
>>stranded/solid junction. That's why the ABYC allows for soldered wiring
>>on boats if the there is another mechanical support to remove stress and
>>vibration on the solder junction.
>>
>
>The ABYC is currently revising their standards to eliminate soldering as
>acceptable.
And where did you hear that?
>>I guess we should ask you where you got the idea that soldered wiring
>>will, in and of itself, cause a boat to fail an insurance survey despite
>>the ABYC allowing it?
>
>Because the insurance industry has it's own ideas about what it will and will
>not insure. They don't always follow ABYC or any other independant standard,
>although they certainley can if they feel like it. Insurance companies have a
>direct interest in prohibiting anything which they known to be an unnecessary
>risk.
Which is why they allow solder on a connection. Can you point to any
examples of a boat failing an insurance survey because of soldered
wiring where the connection followed the ABYC rules?
>> Especially when many boats pass insurance surveys
>>even if they don't meet all of the ABYC rules.
>
>So, all surveyors are competent, honest and have advanced knowledge in all areas
>of boat construction? I have news for you. Surveyors, for the most part, are
>yard bums who pass a 20 question multiple choice quiz and pay a fee to join a
>"Surveyors Association". It's not easy to find a truly competent one.
And you expect these incompetent surveyors to notice soldered
connections and fail the boat because of it?
>Meanwhile, for those not completely glazed over - soldering boat wiring is the
>absolutely wrong thing to do. This is nothing new. Try to find a new boat (ONE
>boat) wired from the factory using solder. You won't. HINT: It's called "product
>liability lawsuits".
Wrong. It's called "skilled labor intensive", which costs a whole lot
of money. If you're claiming it's because of product liability
lawsuits, you should be able to find an example of a boatmaker being
successfully sued because of soldered wiring that followed the ABYC
rules. I'd love to see that.
Steve
Stephen Baker
If the electrical system is down, and you have no power to solder things, then
you are screwed if you have an all-soldered vessel. If it is all crimped or
screw terminals, then you can fix it and be on your way.
Nuff said (I hope!)
Steve "if it ain't fixable, it doesn't belong on board"
Stephen C. Baker - Yacht Designer
http://members.aol.com/SailDesign/private/scbweb/home.htm
Scott Vernon
SV
<BinaryBillTheSailor@Sea++.com> wrote
>
> Please provide me with an email contact at ONE boat manufacturer that will
> confirm that they use solder for wiring boats. This can be ANY
manufacturer,
> including those who build multi-million dollar custom yachts where cost
for
> something like this is not a consideration at all, and if it was better in
some
> way, would be used as a sales tool and touted as a feature, and advantage
over
> the competition. Just one will do...
>
> BB
>
Steven Shelikoff
>On Mon, 31 May 2004 14:05:11 GMT, shel...@yawho.com (Steven Shelikoff) wrote:
>
>
>>>Meanwhile, for those not completely glazed over - soldering boat wiring is the
>>>absolutely wrong thing to do. This is nothing new. Try to find a new boat (ONE
>>>boat) wired from the factory using solder. You won't. HINT: It's called "product
>>>liability lawsuits".
>>
>>Wrong. It's called "skilled labor intensive", which costs a whole lot
>>of money. If you're claiming it's because of product liability
>>lawsuits, you should be able to find an example of a boatmaker being
>>successfully sued because of soldered wiring that followed the ABYC
>>rules.
>
>You aren't very bright, are you? Companies do things to avoid product liability
>suits. If they know something will potentially cost them more that they save by
>doing it, they don't do it.
Talk about not being very bright, that statement makes no sense because
either way they go, soldered according to ABYC rules or crimped, there
is no danger of product liability lawsuits. The only danger of lawsuits
to them is if the wiring was not done properly, either soldered or just
crimped.
Even if product liability was an issue, that statement would only make
sense if they were doing something more expensive in order to avoid the
expense of a product liability lawsuit. That's not the case here, where
they're doing something less expensive and product liability lawsuits
are not a factor.
Did you find any lawsuits due to soldered connections that meet ABYC
rules? Didn't think so. They don't solder because it costs them more
money to solder.
>> I'd love to see that.
>
>Please provide me with an email contact at ONE boat manufacturer that will
>confirm that they use solder for wiring boats. This can be ANY manufacturer,
>including those who build multi-million dollar custom yachts where cost for
>something like this is not a consideration at all, and if it was better in some
>way, would be used as a sales tool and touted as a feature, and advantage over
>the competition. Just one will do...
Specious, since I'm not claiming that boat manufactures use solder in
their general wiring connections. In fact, I would be very surprised if
any do so since it so much greater in skilled labor cost. I'm saying
that it's perfectly ok to do so if the joint is properly done and
supported, and will not cause your boat to fail an insurance survey as
you have claimed.
Let's see here, on one side we have the unsupported ramblings of an
anonymous poster saying that soldering wiring joints is a no-no in all
circumstances. On the other side we have the ABYC rules, NASA specs,
noted authors such as Nigel Calder, and every marine surveyor I've ever
dealt with who have no problem with properly soldered wiring.
Until you can find just ONE cite supporting your claim that properly
soldered wiring (meeting ABYC rules, NASA specs, etc.) will cause your
boat to fail an insurance survey and cause you to have to rip out all
the wiring and replace it before being allowed into a marina or yacht
club, I think the informed reader can make their own decision as to
who's just blowing smoke.
Again, anonymous poster vs. ABYC, NASA, Calder, etc.
Steve
JAXAshby
>Bob Larder
>
>
you suspect wrong
JAXAshby
connections fail. you crimp connection, then solder if you are looking for
corrosion protection
JAXAshby
being a moron would be an improvement for schlackoff.
Sam
Hate to barge in but there is some potentially dangerous advice in a
post here. Apologies to the original poster but this is a bad idea:
>
> My other suggestion, depending on the length of your boat, is to
> install a second AC hook-up. Mine is in the cockpit and the 50 foot
> cord must cross about 31 feet of deck, 5 feet of Zodiac, 6 feet of
> dock finger and 4 feet of rise to get to the plug. Far better, I
> think, would be to have a second plug at the bow
> end...somewhere...allowing a shorter cord to be used and giving one
> the opinion of docking in other slips stern in or bow in without
> hauling too much or too little shore power cord. Less stuff on deck
> that way as well.
>
In order to add a second shore power inlet, you would need to have both
the new and old inlets connected in parallel to each other via the shore
power system. This is potentially very dangerous.
The shore power inlets on boats feature male connections (in other words
metal prongs under the water tight lids). If you put two in parallel and
apply shore power to one inlet the prongs on the other are LIVE. Someone
opening the cover and touching a prong is going to get a surprise.
If you really DO intend to have two shore power inlets, they must be
switched so that only one can ever be "in circuit" at a time.
And, since I have already barged in here:
Use tinned stranded wire for AC as well. No less than 14awg, bigger is
better. There are published guidelines for current capacity/distance
that should be followed, but bigger is better.
Finally, install a GFCI for every AC outlet on the vessel. I got a
dramatic demonstration 2 years ago, when I stepped in a puddle from
showering (barefotot naturally) as I turned on an electrical device in
the head. The GFCI blew instantly. Now what do you suppose would have
happened to me if it hadn't popped?
GFCI's are cheap insurance. Beats waking up dead any day! They don't
stand up to salt water very well though. So if you cruise in salty air,
expect to replace once in a while. But GFCI's are cheap insurance as I said.
Steven Shelikoff
>On Mon, 31 May 2004 23:05:13 GMT, shel...@yawho.com (Steven
>Shelikoff) wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 31 May 2004 20:19:50 GMT, BinaryBillTheSailor@Sea++.com wrote:
>>
>>>On Mon, 31 May 2004 14:05:11 GMT, shel...@yawho.com (Steven Shelikoff) wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>>Meanwhile, for those not completely glazed over - soldering boat wiring is the
>>>>>absolutely wrong thing to do. This is nothing new. Try to find a new boat (ONE
>>>>>boat) wired from the factory using solder. You won't. HINT: It's called "product
>>>>>liability lawsuits".
>>>>
>>>>Wrong. It's called "skilled labor intensive", which costs a whole lot
>>>>of money. If you're claiming it's because of product liability
>>>>lawsuits, you should be able to find an example of a boatmaker being
>>>>successfully sued because of soldered wiring that followed the ABYC
>>>>rules.
>>>
>>>You aren't very bright, are you? Companies do things to avoid product liability
>>>suits. If they know something will potentially cost them more that they save by
>>>doing it, they don't do it.
>>
>>Talk about not being very bright, that statement makes no sense because
>>either way they go, soldered according to ABYC rules or crimped, there
>>is no danger of product liability lawsuits. The only danger of lawsuits
>>to them is if the wiring was not done properly, either soldered or just
>>crimped.
>
>Wow! You've just dropped all the way to MORON with that statement!
You can't defend your position with anything better than that? You're
finished.
>>Even if product liability was an issue, that statement would only make
>>sense if they were doing something more expensive in order to avoid the
>>expense of a product liability lawsuit. That's not the case here, where
>>they're doing something less expensive and product liability lawsuits
>>are not a factor.
>>
>>Did you find any lawsuits due to soldered connections that meet ABYC
>>rules? Didn't think so. They don't solder because it costs them more
>>money to solder.
>>
>>>> I'd love to see that.
>>>
>>>Please provide me with an email contact at ONE boat manufacturer that will
>>>confirm that they use solder for wiring boats. This can be ANY manufacturer,
>>>including those who build multi-million dollar custom yachts where cost for
>>>something like this is not a consideration at all, and if it was better in some
>>>way, would be used as a sales tool and touted as a feature, and advantage over
>>>the competition. Just one will do...
>>
>>Specious, since I'm not claiming that boat manufactures use solder in
>>their general wiring connections. In fact, I would be very surprised if
>>any do so since it so much greater in skilled labor cost. I'm saying
>>that it's perfectly ok to do so if the joint is properly done and
>>supported, and will not cause your boat to fail an insurance survey as
>>you have claimed.
>
>Like I said - provide ONE manufacturer who uses solder. If it was
>superior, then some comapanies would solder, and use it as a sales
>tool to demonstrate higher quality than their competitors. Hinkley
>uses solder? Oyster uses solder? Swan? These companies would solder in
>a heartbeat if it was better.
And like I said, specious argument since I'm not claiming any
manufactureres use solder. You can't seem to get that through your head
since you keep asking me to provide one. Ok, even though there is
probably some that do use solder, I'll agree with you and say that none
do. How about that?
Now, you provide at least ONE successful product liability lawsuit on a
boat manufacturer that was due to properly soldered and supported
connections. If you're claiming that's why they don't solder, you
should be able to back that claim up. Of couse, you can't. Because
it's wrong.
>>Let's see here, on one side we have the unsupported ramblings of an
>>anonymous poster saying that soldering wiring joints is a no-no in all
>>circumstances. On the other side we have the ABYC rules, NASA specs,
>>noted authors such as Nigel Calder, and every marine surveyor I've ever
>>dealt with who have no problem with properly soldered wiring.
>>
>>Until you can find just ONE cite supporting your claim that properly
>>soldered wiring (meeting ABYC rules, NASA specs, etc.) will cause your
>>boat to fail an insurance survey and cause you to have to rip out all
>>the wiring and replace it before being allowed into a marina or yacht
>>club, I think the informed reader can make their own decision as to
>>who's just blowing smoke.
>>
>>Again, anonymous poster vs. ABYC, NASA, Calder, etc.
>
>You are as anonymous as I am, or maybe even more so, and you have yet
You don't even know the meaning of the word anonymous? Sheesh!
>to provide a contact at even ONE manufacturer who will support your
>wild theories. If the whole world agrees with you, then surely you can
>come up with ONE manufacturer? Nope, you can't!
Even though there probably are manufactures that solder their wiring,
I've already agreed several times (above and in previous post) that
manufactureres don't use solder on their wiring because I just don't
care to find any that do since it doesn't matter a single bit to my
argument that it's ok for *you* to solder your wiring as long as it's
done properly. How much more do you want then me agreeing that
manufacturers don't solder their wiring? Are you going to show your
lack of comprehension again and ask me yet another time to find ONE
manufacturer that solders?
Oh, and I wouldn't say that the whole world agrees with me. But the
ones who do are:
1) ABYC allows soldered wiring on boats if it conformes to ABYC
E-8.15.19.
2) NASA allows soldered wiring on all vehicles (including the Space
Shuttle) and critical support system if it conforms to NSTS
5300.4(1D-2), NASA-STD-8739.3, or NHB 5300.4(3A-1).
3) US Navy allows soldered wiring on aircraft and ships if the joint is
properly made and supported. I've had cables made and installed on Navy
aircraft that used soldered connections between stranded wire and cup
pins which passed inspection since they were supported by a strain
relief built into the plug.
4) Calder
5) All of the marine surveyors I've personally dealt with who have
passed boats for insurance surveys that have at least some wiring
connections soldered.
Now it's your turn to provide a single lawsuit due to properly soldered
wiring. You've claimed that's why they don't solder so you should be
able to support that claim. Or show where a boat failed an insurance
survey due to properly soldered wiring. You've claimed a boat with
properly soldered wiring will fail an insurance survey so you should be
able to support that claim as well. Those are both specific allegations
you've made, both of which are unsubstantiated and just plain wrong.
I've shown you who agrees with me. Who agrees with you? Can you
provide a single shred of evidence to support your wild allegations?
Steve