Anyone have experience with Seagulls as pets?

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Katie

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May 26, 2005, 4:15:35 AM5/26/05
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I found a seagull with a broken wing and took him to the vet's. The
wing was badly mangled and had to be amputated (which I decided to pay
for, rather than have the bird killed). After the op (yesterday), the
vet gave the bird back to me.

I now have a pet seagull, like it or not. He's my responsibility and I
fully intend to look after him.

He's brown in color, so apparently he's still a baby. I've got him in
a cardboard box in my bedroom at the moment but I'm going to make him
a wire run in the back garden today - I have a big garden with a pond
in which he can swim and I have a very large rabbit hutch in which I
can keep him at night.

Does anyone have experience with captive seagulls? Do they ever become
tame? At the moment, he cowers down and eyes me with malice whenever I
go near him and tries to bite me (I think he's still a bit dopey from
the op - he's been very quiet and sleeping a lot). I figure that his
food needs will be pretty simple and he'll be easy to keep clean (hose
down his run every day). How long to seagulls live anyway?

I'd appreciate advice from any seagull owners who might be reading...

Thanks.

touc...@aol.com

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May 26, 2005, 8:01:44 AM5/26/05
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Hi Katie,
It sounds like you are a very dedicated pet owner. They are actually
just called gulls, not sea gulls.
They don't make the best pets, but it could be a challenge. They have
rather weak legs, so swimming in the pool, is a good thing. Also being
on natural earth, or sand is preferable. You can just rake it.
They are very messy, though, and prefer a seafood diet, and
dog food.
Good luck.

Regards

rmm7e

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May 26, 2005, 12:47:35 PM5/26/05
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The local animal shelter (www.caspca.org) here has kept a seagull for over
15 years. It too was injured and could not be released. I don't see any
mention of him on their website but you could give them a call or email them
to find out more. HTH

"Katie" <no-...@needs.to.know> wrote in message
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Jerry Avins

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May 26, 2005, 1:19:41 PM5/26/05
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Katie wrote:
> I found a seagull with a broken wing and took him to the vet's. The
> wing was badly mangled and had to be amputated (which I decided to pay
> for, rather than have the bird killed). After the op (yesterday), the
> vet gave the bird back to me.
>
> I now have a pet seagull, like it or not. He's my responsibility and I
> fully intend to look after him.

Bless your good heart. Gulls will eat almost anything, but that doesn't
mean it's good for them. I suspect that they need grit like other birds
with access to land. You deserve a gull joke. I hope it's new.

A young man inherited a beach house and a generous fortune from an aunt.
A condition of the inheritance was that he live in the house and care
for the porpoises she kept in what had been the indoor swimming pool.
She claimed (posthumously) that they would live forever if fed a regular
diet of seagulls. It became the young man's task to collect them from
the beach.

One morning, as he returned to the house with his catch, his way was
blocked by a lion apparently asleep on his doorstep. As he watched for a
while from a safe distance, the lion opened one eye and closed it again
without showing any inclination to move. Our hero decided to risk
stepping over the lion; it was important to maintain his charges'
routine. He was immediately arrested and charged with transporting gulls
across a staid lion for immortal porpoises.

Ouch!

Jerry
--
Should any political party attempt to abolish Social Security,
unemployment insurance, and eliminate labor laws and farm programs,
you would not hear of that party again in our political history.
There is a tiny splinter group, of course, that believes that you can
do these things. Among them are a few Texas oil millionaires, and an
occasional politician or businessman from other areas. Their number
is negligible, and they are stupid.
- Pres. Dwight D. Eisenhower, November 8, 1954

Anonny Moose

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May 26, 2005, 3:42:14 PM5/26/05
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> Katie wrote:
>> I found a seagull with a broken wing and took him to the vet's. The
>> wing was badly mangled and had to be amputated (which I decided to pay
>> for, rather than have the bird killed). After the op (yesterday), the
>> vet gave the bird back to me.
>>
>> I now have a pet seagull, like it or not. He's my responsibility and I
>> fully intend to look after him.

Any idea what kind of gull it is?

While gulls are opportunistic and will eat just about anything, that doesn't
mean they'll get the needed nutrients for optimal health.

Herring gulls eat fish, fish offal, crustaceans, molluscs and worms, small
birds and eggs, and small mammals. I believe gulls regurgitate pellets of
indigestible stuff. Please don't assume they need grit. Do some research,
ask some experts. If you have no one locally to call for information you
would probably have luck emailing a source you can find online.

I worked briefly with gulls in rehab and they give a nasty bite! Be careful
and good luck.


Katie

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May 26, 2005, 4:21:40 PM5/26/05
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On Thu, 26 May 2005 12:42:14 -0700, "Anonny Moose"
<nos...@leavemealone.com> wrote:


>Any idea what kind of gull it is?

He's brown and about the size of a chicken, with black eyes and a
black beak. He's only a baby, apparently, so I guess I might be able
to get him pretty tame with a bit of effort.

>While gulls are opportunistic and will eat just about anything, that doesn't
>mean they'll get the needed nutrients for optimal health.
>
>Herring gulls eat fish, fish offal, crustaceans, molluscs and worms, small
>birds and eggs, and small mammals. I believe gulls regurgitate pellets of
>indigestible stuff. Please don't assume they need grit. Do some research,
>ask some experts. If you have no one locally to call for information you
>would probably have luck emailing a source you can find online.
>
>I worked briefly with gulls in rehab and they give a nasty bite! Be careful
>and good luck.

Thanks for the advice. I'll make sure he eats well... :)

Katie

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May 26, 2005, 4:23:01 PM5/26/05
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Hahaha! I've been feeding him steak and bacon so far... :)

David G Fisher

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May 26, 2005, 4:36:25 PM5/26/05
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You should take the bird to a wildlife rehabber.

Here's a link to find one in your area.
http://www.tc.umn.edu/~devo0028/contact.htm

It needs special care, and I would be concerned that the bird will
eventually be easy prey to a number of different types of animals in your
back garden. Larger and safer facilities are available from a wildlfie
rehabber.

Dave


"Katie" <no-...@needs.to.know> wrote in message
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Joanne

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May 26, 2005, 4:44:39 PM5/26/05
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"Katie" <no-...@needs.to.know> wrote in message
news:jqbc91tdlrit2fuai...@4ax.com...

There are gulls from coast to coast. It would be important to determine
what his natural food requirements are (unlikely bacon) to do a good job.

You may want to disclose where he was found to help those who are
knowledgeable in wild bird feeding to help you plan his diet.

A local wild bird asylum may be very helpful to you with information about
diet and other habitat needs before you get too far along in the design and
building of such.

Good luck in this commitment.
--
Sincerely,
Joanne

If it's right for you, then it's right, . . . . . for you!!!

Play - http://www.jobird.com
Pay for Play - http://www.jobird.com/refund.htm
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Jerry Avins

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May 26, 2005, 4:55:53 PM5/26/05
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Anonny Moose wrote:
>>Katie wrote:
>>
>>>I found a seagull with a broken wing and took him to the vet's. The
>>>wing was badly mangled and had to be amputated (which I decided to pay
>>>for, rather than have the bird killed). After the op (yesterday), the
>>>vet gave the bird back to me.
>>>
>>>I now have a pet seagull, like it or not. He's my responsibility and I
>>>fully intend to look after him.
>
>
> Any idea what kind of gull it is?
>
> While gulls are opportunistic and will eat just about anything, that doesn't
> mean they'll get the needed nutrients for optimal health.
>
> Herring gulls eat fish, fish offal, crustaceans, molluscs and worms, small
> birds and eggs, and small mammals. I believe gulls regurgitate pellets of
> indigestible stuff. Please don't assume they need grit.

That's always good advice. Gulls hang out on beaches, rocky shores, and
municipal piers. (In some towns, it seems that their union assigns them
in shifts to grace the top of a piling, posing for tourists.) It seems
reasonable that they will swallow -- or not -- whatever grit they need
-- or don't -- as long as it is available.

> Do some research,
> ask some experts. If you have no one locally to call for information you
> would probably have luck emailing a source you can find online.
>
> I worked briefly with gulls in rehab and they give a nasty bite! Be careful
> and good luck.

More good advice.

John Hines

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May 26, 2005, 6:29:00 PM5/26/05
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Katie <no-...@needs.to.know> wrote:

>I'd appreciate advice from any seagull owners who might be reading...

Look it up in the encyclopedia of the net? This is what it returned for
gulls: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulls which is a _lot_ more info
than I was expecting to find.

max

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May 26, 2005, 7:03:05 PM5/26/05
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Gull advice...

1. They all have a messiah complex.

2. they'll peck your eyes out if you fall asleep around them.

3. they are thieving bastards who will drop your car keys in the ocean.

4. you can train them to say "eeeeeek!!"

.max

Katie

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May 26, 2005, 9:47:59 PM5/26/05
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On Thu, 26 May 2005 20:44:39 GMT, "Joanne" <Joa...@jobirdnest.com>
wrote:

>There are gulls from coast to coast. It would be important to determine
>what his natural food requirements are (unlikely bacon) to do a good job.
>
>You may want to disclose where he was found to help those who are
>knowledgeable in wild bird feeding to help you plan his diet.

Cornwall, England.

>A local wild bird asylum may be very helpful to you with information about
>diet and other habitat needs before you get too far along in the design and
>building of such.
>
>Good luck in this commitment.

Thanks very much! I hope I can give him a good home... :)

Gloria Carr

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May 27, 2005, 2:34:10 AM5/27/05
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"Katie" <no-...@needs.to.know> wrote in message
news:9uuc91pk29l4q0c74...@4ax.com...

> On Thu, 26 May 2005 20:44:39 GMT, "Joanne" <Joa...@jobirdnest.com>
> wrote:
>
>>There are gulls from coast to coast. It would be important to determine
>>what his natural food requirements are (unlikely bacon) to do a good job.
>>
>>You may want to disclose where he was found to help those who are
>>knowledgeable in wild bird feeding to help you plan his diet.
>
> Cornwall, England.

There ought to be some sanctuaries in your neck of the woods, then. You
could also talk to some of the local zoos, gulls have been kept fairly
successfully in zoos and aquariums for quite some time.

Also, check out your local bait or fishing shops. They should have bait fish
availible, which are usually whatever common small marine fish is local in
your area. Chances are that is what your gull is eating. Even if the bird
was found inland I bet that they spend at least a part of the year at the
shore. Note: if the fish has been frozen at any point you will need to
supplement for Vit B12 as that breaks down in frozen fish. I would also try
feeding veggitables to him, such as peas, carrots, and cooked sweet
potatoes.

Hard plastic kiddie pools are easier to clean then a pond, unless you can
drain your pond every day. Chances are he's going to poop in the water or
want to eat in it, which means that you will have to clean it out so he can
have desent drinking water, as well as preventing algae blooms. A gull
should tame easily, goodness knows the ones around here are horrible
beggers. Once he figures out that you are the Source of Food I have no doubt
that he will become more friendly, but watch out for the beak! I've been
bitten by ravens and I imagine that a gull would be worse, especially if
he's one of the larger species.

Also, if you are making an open top pen be aware that there could be
problems with predators. I don't know how many hawks you have there, but I
think a Common Buzard or Sparrowhawk might be a problem, as well as some of
the owls. There is also the issue of stray dogs and cats and foxes, as well
as rats. Something to think about when designing an enclosure. It might be a
good idea to clean his enclosure every evening to get rid of any leftover
food that might attract unwanted pests.

Gloria


@talktalk.net pammyT

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May 27, 2005, 6:18:41 AM5/27/05
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I used to have a disabled seagull named George. (George Seagull-Segal,
geddit?)
He lived in a large enclosure safe from predators and grew quite tame. You
must make sure he is able to paddle in clean water. Get one of those kids
sandpit things shaped like a shall. Put some bricks or something like a step
so he can get out. I fed mine on tinned dog food, raw eggs, safe household
scraps.

--
purebred poultry
www.geocities.com/fenlandfowl


Katie

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May 27, 2005, 9:21:22 AM5/27/05
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On Fri, 27 May 2005 11:18:41 +0100, "pammyT" <fenlandfowl
@talktalk.net> wrote:

>I used to have a disabled seagull named George. (George Seagull-Segal,
>geddit?)
> He lived in a large enclosure safe from predators and grew quite tame. You
>must make sure he is able to paddle in clean water. Get one of those kids
>sandpit things shaped like a shall. Put some bricks or something like a step
>so he can get out. I fed mine on tinned dog food, raw eggs, safe household
>scraps.

How does a seagull manage to eat a raw egg? Wouldn't that be like a
human eating soup with a fork?

Katie

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May 27, 2005, 9:22:31 AM5/27/05
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Ok, thanks for all the advice. You've been very helpful... :)

I'll have a ring around and see what's in my area too.

@talktalk.net pammyT

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May 27, 2005, 9:43:26 AM5/27/05
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you offer it in the shell whole.I think you really need to find someone who
knows what they're doing. The fact that you fed it bacon shows you have no
idea and are likely to kill it. BTW it is a wild animal and as such, your
vet was obliged to treat it for free.

--
purebred poultry
www.geocities.com/fenlandfowl


Grdner

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May 27, 2005, 9:36:19 AM5/27/05
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I remember that gull :-)  The last time I saw him/her was when we adopted our youngest kitten.  The shelter had him in a huge outdoor cage at the new shelter so he could enjoy the day. 

I couldn't find anything about him on the website either and animal shelters and I make a dangerous combination -- I have 5 adoptees :-)  I may muster the courage tho to stop by and find out what has happened.  In the meantime, if you learn more, please post (or email me)

thanks,
Pat
-- 
__________
38.054752 N, 78.490869 W

David G Fisher

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May 27, 2005, 3:21:13 PM5/27/05
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"Gloria Carr" <plated...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:Cbzle.1131$MI4...@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...

>
> "Katie" <no-...@needs.to.know> wrote in message
> news:9uuc91pk29l4q0c74...@4ax.com...
>
> Also, if you are making an open top pen be aware that there could be
> problems with predators. I don't know how many hawks you have there, but I
> think a Common Buzard or Sparrowhawk might be a problem, as well as some
> of the owls. There is also the issue of stray dogs and cats and foxes, as
> well as rats. Something to think about when designing an enclosure. It
> might be a good idea to clean his enclosure every evening to get rid of
> any leftover food that might attract unwanted pests.
>
> Gloria

The issue of predators is what I mentioned in my other post. That' swhy I
recommended a wildlife rehabber/sanctuary. There are a lot of things that
could go wrong, and many might never occur to someone until it's too late.

Dave


maz

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May 28, 2005, 12:04:52 AM5/28/05
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Hi
I am new to this group and I am a wildlife rehabber. My personal
opinion would have been to have the "Silver Gull" euthanased. Try to
think of this bird who is meant to fly and if it is an adult it is
going to be very stressful for the bird for the rest of its life. Your
heart is in it but try to think about the animals welfare. I have had
them in care and they will stress a lot and refuse to eat, unless force
fed. You would need to feed it the correct diet of fish? I am sorry but
it is very cruel to have had its wing cut off. It would be kinder to
have the bird euthanased. We all love birds and animals, we should do
the right thing for the bird.....not your feelings.

Maz

Phil D.

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May 28, 2005, 2:46:36 AM5/28/05
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Katie said that the gull was a baby. Maybe it'll get used to being an
amputee because it never really knew much better.

The gull must be really stressed, upset and confused at the moment
though.

Phil D.

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May 28, 2005, 2:50:20 AM5/28/05
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On Fri, 27 May 2005 11:18:41 +0100, "pammyT" <fenlandfowl
@talktalk.net> wrote:

Are there any predators in the UK (aside from perhaps escaped large
dogs or a golden eagle) that could take a large gull, flight-capable
or not? I've seen them easily fight off cats before - they're very
ferocious when threatened...

@talktalk.net pammyT

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May 28, 2005, 6:50:38 AM5/28/05
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"Phil D." <no-...@home.here.now> wrote in message
news:o05g91d93cfk2qj6v...@4ax.com...

A fox would and could certainly. Also badger, mink etc.
Since we don't know what sort of gull it is we cannot say for sure that it
is one of the larger species. We have some small gulls over here too.


Message has been deleted

Gloria Carr

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May 28, 2005, 6:52:42 PM5/28/05
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<no_one@no_where.invalid> wrote in message
news:tkbh91tsqcso0v4mu...@4ax.com...

> "maz" <mazb...@ozemail.com.au> wrote:
>
>
>>have the bird euthanased. We all love birds and animals, we should do
>>the right thing for the bird.....not your feelings.
>>
>>Maz
> Check alt.cooking for a good recipe. :-)
>
> Bill, running for cover.

Nah, a seagull would be a bit fishy tasting.

Gloria, joining in the ducking


Akira

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May 28, 2005, 10:30:28 PM5/28/05
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On Thu, 26 May 2005 09:15:35 +0100, Katie wrote:

> I found a seagull with a broken wing and took him to the vet's. The
> wing was badly mangled and had to be amputated (which I decided to pay
> for, rather than have the bird killed). After the op (yesterday), the
> vet gave the bird back to me.
>
> I now have a pet seagull, like it or not. He's my responsibility and I
> fully intend to look after him.

> ...

> I figure that his
> food needs will be pretty simple and he'll be easy to keep clean (hose
> down his run every day). How long to seagulls live anyway?
>
> I'd appreciate advice from any seagull owners who might be reading...

The following exerpts are from Merck Veterinary Manual 9th ed. pp.1845-46
(Nutrition: Exotic and Zoo Aninam). Hope this helps. -Akira

- - -
Aquatic Birds

Recommendations for feeding other fish-eating birds (eg, cormorant, heron,
_gull_, tern, loon, grebe, petrel) are similar to those for penguins. Some
species will accept commercial bird-of-prey diets, trout pellets, and/or
mice in the diet, as well as fish.

...

Penguins, pelicans, and other fish-eating species in the wild feed
primarily on fish, crustaceans, and squid. In captivity, capelin, squid,
smelt, herring, mackerel, and whiting are commonly fed. One of the most
important aspects of feeding penguins and other fish-eating birds is fish
quality (see MARINE MAMMALS, p 1529). All fish-eating birds should receive
a mixed diet consisting of at last 2 fish species to ensure proper
nutrition. Supplements commonly given to penguins include salt,
polyunsaturated fatty acids, and vitamins. Dietary salt (NaCl) is provided
to birds in freshwater exhibits to help maintain proper functioning of the
salt glands; 0.5-1 g salt/bird/day should be adequate for most species.
Providing a supplemental source of essential fatty acids has been
recommended during reproduction and molting when monotypic diets of smelt
are fed: 2-3mL of corn oil /bird/day has been satisfactory. Thiamine and
vitamin E supplementation (25mg thiamine and 100 IU vitamin E/kg of fish,
as fed) is recommended whenever fish that have been frozen are fed. Vitamin
D3 supplementation (250-500 IU/kg of fish, as fed) may be beneficial for
birds not exposed to direct sunlight. Providing calcium carbonate or
dicalcium phosphate to females during reproductive periods is a common
practice to ensure proper eggshell formation. Penguins and pelicans should
be fed individually by hand to ensure that each bird receives the proper
amount of supplements and to better monitor intake. Generally, intake is
0.5-2 kg fish/day depending on the species of penguin, fat content of the
fish, and molt status.

p.1532 MARINE MAMMALS / NUTRITION AND NUTRITIONAL DISEASES

Generally captive animals fed a diet that is solely or primarily fish are
provided dead fish that have been frozen. The logistics and difficulty in
providing this fish can lead to some special nutritional concerns. All fish
are not of equal nutritional value; diets consisting of a single species of
fish are unlikely to provide balanced nutrition for anyanimal. Similarly,
one diet will not serve all piscivores equally. Only fish suitable for
human consumption should be fed.

Storage and thawing of frozen fish must be monitored carefully. Feed fish
should be held at -19F (-28C) to reduce deterioration of their nutritional
value through oxidation of amino acids and unsaturated lipids. Dehydration
of frozen fish can also be a problem for animals that obtain their water
from their food. Fatty fish should not be stored > 6 mo. Few fish, with the
possible exception of capelin, should be stored > 1yr. To retain optimal
vitamin content and reduce moisture loss, frozen fish should be thawed in
air under refrigeration. Thawing in water leaches away water-soluble
vitamins. Thawing at room temperature encourages bacterial growth and
spoilage.

...

maz

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May 29, 2005, 12:22:50 AM5/29/05
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Hahaha! I've been feeding him steak and bacon so far... :)

That is not really good to be feeding a sea gull. I dont really think
you are really taking this serious by thinking it is a joke feeding
steak & bacon!!
How sad, whats it going to be like in about 30yrs time if he is a baby
now what are you going to be feeding it then?? Fish - pilchards,
whitebait are a good sensible diet. You will need to have it on
Vitamins you need specialty sea tablets for all sea birds. What about
Calcium for its bones after having a wing cut off, it needs calcium. I
really think you should get this bird to an experienced carer. We
rescue wildlife that unlicensed people have had for months and then
they say they dont want it anymore(eg: Eastern Grey
Kangaroo's/possums/birds). It is just rediculous , then its our very
own hard task of having to rehab it getting it to eat the foods or
supplement foods it is supposed to be eating. People like you who
thinks it is funny to be feeding the bird bacon and steak. If you arent
serious about saving this birds life euthanasia would have been kinder.
Surely you have other groups - zoo's, animal parks,etc that would give
the gull a much better life with other sea birds and the proper care.
How would you like to live a life without legs or arms and be locked
up. It may be a joke to you whether you love birds or not....thinking
its funny to be feeding it bacon. It's just not on. Are you supposed to
be licensed to take injured birds where you are??
I am really sorry for sounding so angry, come on what type of a life
does this poor bird deserve after you got the wing cut off?? With its
own kind in a zoo or park, eating a proper diet or running around some
house with you feeding it whatever you want. What happens when you get
tired of it?
Maz

Jerry Avins

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May 29, 2005, 1:58:47 AM5/29/05
to

I don't think it's serious as all that. I used to feed gulls bread,
orange peel, wilted lettuce, and meat loaf. When I didn't throw it their
way they took it themselves from the dumpster. Gulls are scavengers.
They will eat whatever they find; they rarely spit anything out.

So it's not that the bacon hurts, but that it's a lousy steady diet.
There's time yet to set it right.

Jerry

--
Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get.
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯

Jerry Avins

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May 29, 2005, 2:00:58 AM5/29/05
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Are you sure? This one might taste like steak and bacon.

@talktalk.net pammyT

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May 29, 2005, 6:32:31 AM5/29/05
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"Jerry Avins" <j...@ieee.org> wrote in message
news:s4KdnQ-N9qu...@rcn.net...


> So it's not that the bacon hurts, but that it's a lousy steady diet.
> There's time yet to set it right.

Bacon will hurt it as it cannot take the huge amounts of salt and other
chemicals which goes into the making of it.


Phil D.

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May 29, 2005, 6:40:23 AM5/29/05
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A sea bird that cannot handle salt? I thought that gulls could drink
sea water...

Jane

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May 29, 2005, 8:48:04 AM5/29/05
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"Akira" <akir...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:mbg0ra1snb8r$.i4yet5i0gm4t.dlg@40tude.net...

In my opinion posting this information is irresponsible. Clearly this person
is not able to provide a diet that the bird needs. It is illegal to keep
this bird captive. This person is doing great harm to this bird, he doesn't
have a clue what he is doing, the bird will never be able to be returned to
the wild and will likely die if they guy doesn't kill it first. Posting
information like this is only encouraging him to continue what he thinks is
a great game. This snippet of information does not point out some other very
important points regarding nutrition, quality and variety of fish. Clearly
the person is not qualified to care for the bird.
Anyone know where this person is located?
When I read these "jokes" I get a sick feeling in my stomach reading about
this person keeping this bird captive. He posts with glee about how he is
illegally holding a gull captive and its a big joke that he is feeding it an
inappropriate diet.
Also the guy keeps calling it a seagull, which clearly shows he has no idea
about its natural history or physical needs, he doesn't even know the proper
name of the bird.


@talktalk.net pammyT

unread,
May 29, 2005, 12:04:14 PM5/29/05
to

"Phil D." <no-...@home.here.now> wrote in message
news:qu6j91l8fb6epggk7...@4ax.com...
why did you think that?


Akira

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May 29, 2005, 1:22:26 PM5/29/05
to
On Sun, 29 May 2005 07:48:04 -0500, Jane wrote:
>
> In my opinion posting this information is irresponsible. Clearly this person
> is not able to provide a diet that the bird needs. It is illegal to keep
> this bird captive. This person is doing great harm to this bird, he doesn't
> have a clue what he is doing, the bird will never be able to be returned to
> the wild and will likely die if they guy doesn't kill it first. Posting
> information like this is only encouraging him to continue what he thinks is
> a great game. This snippet of information does not point out some other very
> important points regarding nutrition, quality and variety of fish. Clearly
> the person is not qualified to care for the bird.
> Anyone know where this person is located?
> When I read these "jokes" I get a sick feeling in my stomach reading about
> this person keeping this bird captive. He posts with glee about how he is
> illegally holding a gull captive and its a big joke that he is feeding it an
> inappropriate diet.
> Also the guy keeps calling it a seagull, which clearly shows he has no idea
> about its natural history or physical needs, he doesn't even know the proper
> name of the bird.

I'm under the impression that you did not read the whole thread. Also I
think you wrongly assumed my personal view on what would be the best course
of action for her and the bird, and intent behind my post.

Katie has said she was in Cornwall, England. I don't know what the local
laws are there. She also did the right thing and took the bird to a vet.
I'd also point out that she has not said anything to rule out getting the
help of a local rehabber/zoo, etc., which I hope she does. Personally I
think she is trying to do the right thing, and deserves credit for that. I
don't think it's particularly helpful to criticize ignorance and mistakes
made by others after the fact. (Although it can be fun. ;-)

> In my opinion posting this information is irresponsible.

Irresponsible or not, Merck makes avaialble the entire contents of this
Merck Veterinary Manaul (8th ed.) at the following URL:

http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/index.jsp

MVM is a standard veterinary reference available to the public in many
bookstores in its original book form. It has been around for 50 years.

Akira (in California, USA)

Jerry Avins

unread,
May 29, 2005, 1:25:28 PM5/29/05
to

I had in mind a slice or two. I'm in a restricted salt diet, but a slice
once in a while won't hurt me. If course, I outweigh the poor gull.

I once raised a pigeon chick by hand, in total ignotance and no one to
turn to but a vet who could only guess. we stayed friends -- me and
pigeon, and me and vet -- for a number of years. (My pigeon had both
wings, and flew off when the time came. He visited occasionally.)

One must not be cavalier about birds' needs, but I don't think it's
necessary to be uptight. I neglected my pigeon's water dish once, and he
flew up onto the supper table and drank about two ounces of white wine.
He staggered almost immediately and fell off the table. I caught him
before he hit the floor and wrapped him in a towel to confine him. I
locked him in a room to keep the dog away until he sobered up. He had
worked himself out of the towel by morning, apparently none the worse
for his bout. I have to believe that a gull's constitution is at least
as robust as a city pigeon's.

Jerry Avins

unread,
May 29, 2005, 1:30:57 PM5/29/05
to
Jane wrote:

...

> Also the guy keeps calling it a seagull, which clearly shows he has no idea
> about its natural history or physical needs, he doesn't even know the proper
> name of the bird.

As I see it, you have two choices. You can teach him (or at least
encourage him to learn), or you can preach about evil and feel smug.
Which side are you on?

Phil D.

unread,
May 29, 2005, 2:23:07 PM5/29/05
to
On Sun, 29 May 2005 17:04:14 +0100, "pammyT" <fenlandfowl
@talktalk.net> wrote:

>
>"Phil D." <no-...@home.here.now> wrote in message
>news:qu6j91l8fb6epggk7...@4ax.com...
>> On Sun, 29 May 2005 11:32:31 +0100, "pammyT" <fenlandfowl
>> @talktalk.net> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >"Jerry Avins" <j...@ieee.org> wrote in message
>> >news:s4KdnQ-N9qu...@rcn.net...
>> >> So it's not that the bacon hurts, but that it's a lousy steady diet.
>> >> There's time yet to set it right.
>> >Bacon will hurt it as it cannot take the huge amounts of salt and other
>> >chemicals which goes into the making of it.
>>
>> A sea bird that cannot handle salt? I thought that gulls could drink
>> sea water...
> why did you think that?

I've seen them doing it. I love gulls and watch them a lot.

I've raised a few baby gulls for release myself. I've always fed them
salmon and tuna blended with full cream milk and they've done really
well. When they start getting old enough to run around, it's hard to
find something that they *won't* eat...

Gloria Carr

unread,
May 29, 2005, 5:46:56 PM5/29/05
to

"pammyT" <fenlandfowl @talktalk.net> wrote in message
news:yKlme.1581$CF.4...@news-1.opaltelecom.net...

Seabirds, including gulls, have special glands to rid themselves of excess
salt in their nasal discharge. They can, in fact, deal with salt just fine,
as long as they are constantly exposed to it. If they don't get exposed to
it their salt glands can shrink, and they need to be fed salt tablets before
being safely released. On the other hand the 'liquid smoke' and other
flavorings added to bacon can't be good for a gull, nor can the high levels
of fats.

Gloria


Phil D.

unread,
May 29, 2005, 5:46:08 PM5/29/05
to
On Sun, 29 May 2005 13:25:28 -0400, Jerry Avins <j...@ieee.org> wrote:

>I once raised a pigeon chick by hand, in total ignotance and no one to
>turn to but a vet who could only guess. we stayed friends -- me and
>pigeon, and me and vet -- for a number of years. (My pigeon had both
>wings, and flew off when the time came. He visited occasionally.)
>
>One must not be cavalier about birds' needs, but I don't think it's
>necessary to be uptight. I neglected my pigeon's water dish once, and he
>flew up onto the supper table and drank about two ounces of white wine.
>He staggered almost immediately and fell off the table. I caught him
>before he hit the floor and wrapped him in a towel to confine him. I
>locked him in a room to keep the dog away until he sobered up. He had
>worked himself out of the towel by morning, apparently none the worse
>for his bout. I have to believe that a gull's constitution is at least
>as robust as a city pigeon's.

I believe I have enough experience with gulls (successfully raising at
six orphaned chicks over the past few years) to comment that gulls are
not particularly specialized in their dietary needs. I'd go as far as
to say that they are one of the easiest birds to take care of...

In the beginning, I fed the babies a mixture of fish blended with full
cream milk - which they thrived on. Once the babies were big enough to
start running around and fluttering, it was a hard job to keep them
away from whatever I was eating at the time (they climb on the table,
steal food from your plate and attempt to grab it from your mouth -
which I let them do sometimes). I simply gave them a portion of
whatever I was having, fed them a bit of canned tuna/salmon every day
and made sure they had plenty of fresh water to drink. All the gulls
grew large, plump and strong and eventually flew away. They seemed
perfectly fine in the wild - some of them hung around the area for
weeks and seemed perfectly healthy and able to fend for themselves,
occasionally sitting on my fence and calling to me.

The fact that the gull in question is crippled means that the original
poster should take care WRT predators but I can't really see her
having any problems - gulls are tough cookies and very adaptable. Keep
him clean and safe, give him something to swim/bathe in, don't feed
him too much junk (a healthy diet for a human seems to be, from my
personal experience perfectly adequate for a gull) and you should be
fine with your new 'pet'. If he's only a baby he should become quite
tame, though don't be surprised if he tries to assert himself over you
at the top of the pecking order!

josephhasnobrain

unread,
May 30, 2005, 12:39:21 PM5/30/05
to

"pammyT" <fenlandfowl @talktalk.net> wrote in message
news:ETgme.1577$CF.4...@news-1.opaltelecom.net...
where the hell do you buy your bacon???


josephhasnobrain

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May 30, 2005, 12:39:54 PM5/30/05
to

"pammyT" <fenlandfowl @talktalk.net> wrote in message
news:yKlme.1581$CF.4...@news-1.opaltelecom.net...
because its true!!!!


maz

unread,
May 30, 2005, 7:01:02 PM5/30/05
to
Full cream milk is bad for all birds!!! That is reallybad. I am an
experienced wildlife carer and I think this is really horrible. Are you
prepared to get fresh sea water each day for the rest of the birds life
(30yrs or more)? You will need to buy fresh fish for the bird each day
too. I know they will eat anything, but come on....you had this poor
birds wing cut off. Do the right thing by this bird. Yes, by it being a
young bird it will tame down eventually. it has no choice........has
it??? Put yourself in the4 birds postition.........would you like to
have your arm cut off?? Where does a Sea Gull get full cream milk in
its diet????? You may have raised some baby gulls on it before, how do
you know whether those birds didnt get sick after you released them??
Where do they get cooked tin salmon/tuna out in the wild?? Raw is what
they are supposed to be eating. Wild birds need to be kept wild not
hoping around your home? For the one the girl has, feeding it whatever
you want is really very cruel........give it to an experienced
carer!!!!

Jerry Avins

unread,
May 30, 2005, 8:36:53 PM5/30/05
to
maz wrote:
> Full cream milk is bad for all birds!!! That is reallybad. I am an
> experienced wildlife carer and I think this is really horrible.

The gulls who hang around the dumpster behind the Stop&Shop 35 miles
from the ocean don't know that. They eat overripe vegetables, yogurt,
offal, and more we don't want to know about.

> Are you
> prepared to get fresh sea water each day for the rest of the birds life
> (30yrs or more)?

Didn't someone say they mustn't have salt?

> You will need to buy fresh fish for the bird each day
> too. I know they will eat anything, but come on....you had this poor
> birds wing cut off. Do the right thing by this bird. Yes, by it being a
> young bird it will tame down eventually. it has no choice........has
> it??? Put yourself in the4 birds postition.........would you like to
> have your arm cut off?? Where does a Sea Gull get full cream milk in
> its diet????? You may have raised some baby gulls on it before, how do
> you know whether those birds didnt get sick after you released them??
> Where do they get cooked tin salmon/tuna out in the wild?? Raw is what
> they are supposed to be eating. Wild birds need to be kept wild not
> hoping around your home? For the one the girl has, feeding it whatever
> you want is really very cruel........give it to an experienced
> carer!!!!

That last is good advice, but short of that, my advice to you -- for the
bird's sake -- is tone down the shrillness and rank the "imperatives" in
their order of importance. Advise about second-rate substitutes in case
the best options are temporarily unavailable and in short, pass on some
of your acquired wisdom in a way that makes it acceptable. Preaching and
scolding won't work.

Al Johnston

unread,
May 30, 2005, 9:00:17 PM5/30/05
to
Good advice, Jerry.
Al

"Jerry Avins" <j...@ieee.org> wrote in message
news:qd2dnVrtG4k...@rcn.net...

Akira

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May 30, 2005, 9:43:54 PM5/30/05
to
On Thu, 26 May 2005 09:15:35 +0100, Katie wrote:
> I found a seagull with a broken wing and took him to the vet's. The
> wing was badly mangled and had to be amputated (which I decided to pay
> for, rather than have the bird killed). After the op (yesterday), the
> vet gave the bird back to me.
>
> I now have a pet seagull, like it or not. He's my responsibility and I
> fully intend to look after him.
> ...

Katie, you may already know about this, but you may want to check out this
web page I found on Google:

http://britishwildlifehelpline.com/Centres%20_%20England.html

It has a list of wildlife rehabilitation facilities and contacts in your
area. It probably wouldn't hurt for you to ring them up to see if they
could offer you any useful information or practical advices.

In Cornwall area, what looks promising to me are:

- Cornwall, Perranporth, RSPCA Welfare Center 01872 572953 Blowing House
Road "All wildlife, especially birds. Oiled bird cleaning station"
- Cornwall, Bude, Hilltop Haven 01288 321268 "All wildlife, advice, rescue,
sanctuary"
- Cornwall, Camelford, Widewalls Sanctuary 01840 212300 "All wildlife,
rescues"
- Cornwall, Mousehole, Mousehole Wild Birds Hospital" 01736 731386 "All
wild birds, injured, oiled etc."
- Cornwall, Newquay, Newquay Zoo 01637 873342 Trevance Park "New Animal
hospital. Most species."

(I assume those numbers are the phone numbers.)

Other than that, the only thing I could find for you was a book:
http://www.vin.com/MainPub/Misc/M05000/PUBCE_M03641.htm

Although it is not specifically for birds, I'd imagine it contains
practical information on caring for gulls in captivity. You can order it
from www.amazon.co.uk (£74, free shipping.) You might as well have it for
future reference, since it looks like you are becoming a wildlife
rehabber...

Good luck!
Akira (in California, USA)

Akira

unread,
May 30, 2005, 9:57:30 PM5/30/05
to
On Tue, 31 May 2005 01:43:54 GMT, Akira wrote:
> ...

> Other than that, the only thing I could find for you was a book:
> http://www.vin.com/MainPub/Misc/M05000/PUBCE_M03641.htm
>
> Although it is not specifically for birds, I'd imagine it contains
> practical information on caring for gulls in captivity.
> ...

Actually scratch that. The review says "birds [passerines, columbiforms,
raptors, and waterfowl]" so maybe it doesn't have stuff on gulls. Oh well.
:-(

Akira

Phil D.

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May 30, 2005, 11:47:58 PM5/30/05
to
On 30 May 2005 16:01:02 -0700, "maz" <mazb...@ozemail.com.au> wrote:

>Full cream milk is bad for all birds!!! That is reallybad. I am an
>experienced wildlife carer and I think this is really horrible.

My gulls seemed to do fine on it - they grew from chicks to large,
well-muscled, strong-boned gull-sized gulls without any problem or
sickness whatsoever. Okay, I'll admit I started off with the first one
thinking 'baby = needs milk' without considering the fact that gulls
do not suckle their young, but the system works - the gulls thrive on
the stuff! I saw no need to change it.

> Are you
>prepared to get fresh sea water each day for the rest of the birds life
>(30yrs or more)?

Not my gull, I'm afraid.

> You will need to buy fresh fish for the bird each day
>too. I know they will eat anything, but come on....you had this poor
>birds wing cut off. Do the right thing by this bird. Yes, by it being a
>young bird it will tame down eventually. it has no choice........has
>it??? Put yourself in the4 birds postition.........would you like to
>have your arm cut off??

If it was mangled beyond repair and it was a choice between that and
being given a lethal injection 'for my own good', then certainly.

> Where does a Sea Gull get full cream milk in
>its diet????? You may have raised some baby gulls on it before, how do
>you know whether those birds didnt get sick after you released them??

They hung around for weeks and looked absolutely fine. A couple of
them let me stroke them when sat on my fence - their keelbones were
well-muscled, they were bright-eyed, alert and there was no other
obvious sign of physical ailment.

>Where do they get cooked tin salmon/tuna out in the wild?? Raw is what
>they are supposed to be eating. Wild birds need to be kept wild not
>hoping around your home?

If it's a crippled gull, surely it's a moot point now anyway? The
other gulls would probably kill it for not conforming anyway.

> For the one the girl has, feeding it whatever
>you want is really very cruel........give it to an experienced
>carer!!!!

Gulls are not made out of glass. As long as you don't do anything
stupid like feed them on a bread-only diet, I can't really see you
doing it much harm with 'human' food (provided you eat a fairly
healthy diet yourself). There are plenty of urban gulls who have
probably never even seen a fish in their lives (unless it was a piece
of fried fish dropped in the street or a rotting fish-head at the
dump) and exist solely - and thrive on 'human' food.

Phil D.

unread,
May 30, 2005, 11:53:02 PM5/30/05
to
On Mon, 30 May 2005 20:36:53 -0400, Jerry Avins <j...@ieee.org> wrote:

>maz wrote:
>> Full cream milk is bad for all birds!!! That is reallybad. I am an
>> experienced wildlife carer and I think this is really horrible.
>
>The gulls who hang around the dumpster behind the Stop&Shop 35 miles
>from the ocean don't know that. They eat overripe vegetables, yogurt,
>offal, and more we don't want to know about.

I once saw a gull eat half a pound of rancid margarine out of
someone's rubbish bag without turning a hair (or a feather in this
case). There was also an occasion where, down at the local docks,
there was a large pallet of sheep hides that'd been left outside in
the hot sun for a few days and positively stank of death. The gulls
were swarming all over it like it was their new god... :)

Bob Blaylock

unread,
May 31, 2005, 12:05:50 AM5/31/05
to
In article <1117494062....@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
"maz" <mazb...@ozemail.com.au> wrote:

> I am an experienced wildlife carer...

If that were true, then I think you'd be able to spell it.

--
I hate spam, but that isn't really part of my email
address. Remove the string "HatesSpam" from this email
address before you use it: BobHat...@Blaylock.to

Ever wonder what it'd be like to be a blood-sucking parasite?
http://tinyurl.com/7wxk

Gloria Carr

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May 31, 2005, 1:40:39 AM5/31/05
to

"Phil D." <no-...@home.here.now> wrote in message
news:q9mn91t1r63k2vjrd...@4ax.com...

> On 30 May 2005 16:01:02 -0700, "maz" <mazb...@ozemail.com.au> wrote:
>
>>Full cream milk is bad for all birds!!! That is reallybad. I am an
>>experienced wildlife carer and I think this is really horrible.
>
> My gulls seemed to do fine on it - they grew from chicks to large,
> well-muscled, strong-boned gull-sized gulls without any problem or
> sickness whatsoever. Okay, I'll admit I started off with the first one
> thinking 'baby = needs milk' without considering the fact that gulls
> do not suckle their young, but the system works - the gulls thrive on
> the stuff! I saw no need to change it.

Milk isn't toxic to birds. While they can't digest lactose it doesn't hurt
them either, lactose just passes through their digestive system undigested.
At worse it might give them gas. And gulls are scavengers, fully capable of
eating rotten carrion and not coming to harm.

There is a big difference between the types of food that a captive bird
should be fed, and the foods that we can feed a wild one. For example
feeding a diet of lard and sunflower seeds to a pet finch would be very
wrong,the finch would likely become sick and die within months on such a
diet. For a wild finch suet and sunflower seeds are an excelent way to see
them up close, and do no harm. This is because a wild bird needs more energy
then a captive one and won't get fat (unless that's what they need to do),
and wild birds are able to eat other foods and thus balance their diet.

I guess my point is that in a way you both are correct. Gulls can and do eat
everything in the wild and come to no harm, but captive birds should not be
fed anything and everything. They should be fed only healthy foods. What
that is for a gull I can't really say, since I have no experience with them,
but I imagin that it would be a diet of mostly small marine fish (most
likely whatever local baitfish, as well as fresh herrings and sardines), as
well as some veggies and fruits, and possibly soaked monkey biscuit.

Gloria


Akira

unread,
May 31, 2005, 3:16:57 AM5/31/05
to
On Thu, 26 May 2005 09:15:35 +0100, Katie wrote:

> I found a seagull with a broken wing and took him to the vet's. The
> wing was badly mangled and had to be amputated (which I decided to pay
> for, rather than have the bird killed). After the op (yesterday), the
> vet gave the bird back to me.
>
> I now have a pet seagull, like it or not. He's my responsibility and I
> fully intend to look after him.

Katie,

FYI, I found this very informative web site:

http://britishwildlifehelpline.com/index.html

(The earlier listing of British rehab centers was actually part of this
website.)

It has some specific instructions as to what to feed gulls on an emergency
basis when they aren't eating. (Fishy canned cat food, if necessary diluted
with water and tube-fed, is what they suggest.) Also it has a list of some
rehab-related reference books that you might want to look into.

Although the site doesn't have any other gull-specific info, it does say:

"If you want any other information please contact:
ma...@britishwildlifehelpline.com "

So I wonder if this could be another potential source of info for you,
along with the previously mentioned list of rehab facilities.

Also, aside from all of the above, one thing I would consider doing, if I
were you, is weighing the bird periodically. Keeping a record of this and
monitoring weight trend should help you judge its current health status.

For example if it is maintaining or gaining weight and looks alert and
responsive, probably things are going okay. On the other hand if it starts
to lose weight, it may be time to consult a vet to see what might be going
on, etc. Just a suggestion.

Hope this helps.

-Akira (in California, USA)
"Still learning gull ID after all these years"

Grygon's

unread,
Jun 1, 2005, 3:28:08 AM6/1/05
to
taking in a wild animal, no matter your good attentions is never a good idea
unless you are experienced with animal rescue or are prepared to do a good
amount of research, and i don't mean by just asking newsgroups. contact
your local animal wild life rescue center or zoo and they can set you up
either with some one who already knows what they are doing, or with someone
who can teach you what to do. it seems to me you have no experience in this
sort of thing, and the animal will suffer for it. :(

another thing to consider: it might be illegal in your state to have this
bird! i've hand-rescued many baby birds before, one time i found a baby
starling (biggest damn "beak targets" i've ever seen) and the wildlife
rescue center told me despite my experience in wildlife rescue it was a good
thing i brought it in cause it was illegal in my state to keep, no matter
the reason, migratory birds such as the starling.

please get help for this bird, it's nothing to take lightly! even if you
keep it, DO YOUR RESEARCH!


@talktalk.net pammyT

unread,
Jun 1, 2005, 1:58:02 PM6/1/05
to

"Grygon's" <REMOVESP...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:d7joms$cnb$1...@reader2.nmix.net...


> taking in a wild animal, no matter your good attentions is never a good
idea
> unless you are experienced with animal rescue or are prepared to do a good
> amount of research, and i don't mean by just asking newsgroups. contact
> your local animal wild life rescue center or zoo and they can set you up
> either with some one who already knows what they are doing, or with
someone
> who can teach you what to do. it seems to me you have no experience in
this
> sort of thing, and the animal will suffer for it. :(
>
> another thing to consider: it might be illegal in your state to have this
> bird!

Ahem. The U.K. is not a state. We are not a democracy we have a monarchy :0)
I know many Americans seem to think we are another American state but we are
not, nor will we ever be.
It is not illegal to keep an injured gull in the U.K.

>i've hand-rescued many baby birds before, one time i found a baby
> starling (biggest damn "beak targets" i've ever seen) and the wildlife
> rescue center told me despite my experience in wildlife rescue it was a
good
> thing i brought it in cause it was illegal in my state to keep, no matter
> the reason, migratory birds such as the starling.

Crikey, for 'the land of the free' there are an awful lot of laws which tell
you you cannot keep this or that animal.Luckily over here on this damp
overcrowded island, we can keep gulls, crows, starlings, quakers, ferrets
etc if we jolly well choose to :0)


>
> please get help for this bird, it's nothing to take lightly! even if you
> keep it, DO YOUR RESEARCH!
>
>

The last bit I agree with.


Gloria Carr

unread,
Jun 1, 2005, 2:13:39 PM6/1/05
to

"pammyT" <fenlandfowl @talktalk.net> wrote in message
news:7Hmne.5882$CF.4...@news-1.opaltelecom.net...

>
>
> "Grygon's" <REMOVESP...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:d7joms$cnb$1...@reader2.nmix.net...
> >i've hand-rescued many baby birds before, one time i found a baby
>> starling (biggest damn "beak targets" i've ever seen) and the wildlife
>> rescue center told me despite my experience in wildlife rescue it was a
> good
>> thing i brought it in cause it was illegal in my state to keep, no matter
>> the reason, migratory birds such as the starling.

> Crikey, for 'the land of the free' there are an awful lot of laws which
> tell
> you you cannot keep this or that animal.Luckily over here on this damp
> overcrowded island, we can keep gulls, crows, starlings, quakers, ferrets
> etc if we jolly well choose to :0)

I'm still trying to figure out which state it is that is illegal to keep
starlings 'because they are a migratory species'. Starlings are non-native,
are not classified as a migratory species because they are non-native, and
are legal to keep in every single state I've looked up the law on. Mind you,
I haven't checked out all fifty states. As far as I am aware starlings are
actually illegal to RELEASE for any reason.

Gloria


dlg

unread,
Jun 1, 2005, 8:49:35 PM6/1/05
to

Check with Rush Limbaugh, he loves them.
>
>

maz

unread,
Jun 2, 2005, 4:25:21 AM6/2/05
to
I actually rescued a Silver Gull today. It had a fish hook peirced
through its tongue. Poor thing. After both my daughters help we managed
to get this hook out after having to peirce the hook through even more
to get the point out before cutting the hook with wire cutters and
pulling the rest of it out. After a dose of Metacam for the pain, the
Silver Gull is resting comfortably. I am hoping to release it in a
couple of days after a feed of white bait. Tonight though it is minced
beef(uncooked) with some insectivore mixed in and some glucose and
water. It was so badly dehydrated poor thing. He is standing up
tonight............so i am hoping for a full recovery.

Maz

Graham Townsend

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Jun 2, 2005, 6:40:55 AM6/2/05
to
On Thu, 02 Jun 2005 01:25:21 -0700, maz wrote:

> I actually rescued a Silver Gull today. It had a fish hook peirced
> through its tongue. Poor thing. After both my daughters help we managed

<snip>

> water. It was so badly dehydrated poor thing. He is standing up
> tonight............so i am hoping for a full recovery.
>
> Maz

Good for you! It always cheers me to hear of someone who is doing their
bit to try and put right the mess we collectively seem to make of our
home. Please let us know how your patient gets on. Where are you housing the
gull until you release it?

Regards

Graham

Grygon's

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Jun 2, 2005, 4:46:17 PM6/2/05
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"pammyT" <fenlandfowl @talktalk.net> wrote in message
news:7Hmne.5882$CF.4...@news-1.opaltelecom.net...
> Ahem. The U.K. is not a state. We are not a democracy we have a monarchy
:0)
> I know many Americans seem to think we are another American state but we
are
> not, nor will we ever be.
> It is not illegal to keep an injured gull in the U.K.
>

i hadn't seen the mention of where the bird was found until after sending
this post. :)

> Crikey, for 'the land of the free' there are an awful lot of laws which
tell
> you you cannot keep this or that animal.Luckily over here on this damp
> overcrowded island, we can keep gulls, crows, starlings, quakers, ferrets
> etc if we jolly well choose to :0)

it is for the best interest of the bird: if i had kept it and not had it
ready to be released by the time it needed to migrate, or released it after
that time it would have died. does the UK have migratory animals? then
there's no reason for that law i s'pose. ;)

> The last bit I agree with.
>

yeah, aside from that i'm just an ugly american to you, neh? ;)


Grygon's

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Jun 2, 2005, 4:49:37 PM6/2/05
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"Gloria Carr" <plated...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:nVmne.698$W77...@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...

>> I'm still trying to figure out which state it is that is illegal to keep
> starlings 'because they are a migratory species'. Starlings are
non-native,
> are not classified as a migratory species because they are non-native, and
> are legal to keep in every single state I've looked up the law on. Mind
you,
> I haven't checked out all fifty states. As far as I am aware starlings are
> actually illegal to RELEASE for any reason.


huh... perhaps i should question that gal next time i take in a sparrow (2
so far this spring, plus a pigeon). after she made me sign some paperwork
during the starling (standard for any rescues brought in) she left me for 20
minutes in that front room, not even responding to my dinging the bell again
and again (she told me she'd be right back). i was tempted to ignore that
damn "employees only" sign and go find her but i just left instead.


rmm7e

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Jun 3, 2005, 4:44:32 PM6/3/05
to

"Gloria Carr" <plated...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:nVmne.698$W77...@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> I'm still trying to figure out which state it is that is illegal to keep
> starlings 'because they are a migratory species'. Starlings are
non-native,
> are not classified as a migratory species because they are non-native, and
> are legal to keep in every single state I've looked up the law on. Mind
you,
> I haven't checked out all fifty states.

No need to look them up individually; the Fish & Wildlife Service (federal)
states:

"All wild birds (except pigeons, English sparrows and starlings) are
protected by federal and state laws. You may not trap, kill or possess
protected species without federal and state permits."

on the website http://library.fws.gov/Bird_Publications/prob.html

However, they *have* been known to exhibit migratory behavior according to
http://www.birds.cornell.edu/BOW/EURSTA/

Perhaps this is where the confusion came in.

Regina


Gloria Carr

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Jun 3, 2005, 6:32:39 PM6/3/05
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"rmm7e" <rm...@nospamvirginia.edu> wrote in message
news:d7qffi$f5i$1...@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU...

Ah, thanks.

Gloria