Obituary: Bernard Rohloff

[Andre Jute]

>
Bernard Rohloff was a great engineer, the inventor of the best internal hub gearbox, the Rohloff Speed 14, which made the lives of cyclists so much more convenient.
>
Andre Jute
Now let us praise famous men. -- Ecclesiastes
>

[Tom Kunich]

All things must pass. I just watched a video of Jordan Peterson questioning the economist Peter Schiff. Schiff got everything right but he was focusing on the EFFECTS and not the CAUSE. He is a firm believer of the gold standard but gold is just as worthless as paper money. It does not thing but represent PAST labor and since it is a permanent material it is always there.

But the real cause of the worth of money is the LABOR that goes into making it. I am only six years older than the Golden Gate Bridge. One day it will wear out and need replacing but a stack of gold representing the amount of labor that it took to build it wouldn't go away. So what? That stack of gold isn't the bridge. And mining more gold that does represent labor means nothing other than the value that people are willing to pay for------------------ it just like paper currency.

Trump was the only modern President to actually understand money and where its value actually comes from. Listening to Economists like that ass Janet Yellen shows that even education has been inflated so greatly that people like Liebermann can get a degree that he can never use, Degrees are now absolutely worthless. What is the value of more and more people knowing less and less?

[pH]

I'm sorry to hear that. Right up there w/ the late Phil Wood.

God Speed Bernard Rohloff.

(I've still only seen two or three Rohloffs in the 'wild'.)

pH in Aptos

[Tom Kunich]

I have never seen a 14 speed. And the Golden Gate Bridge is only 6 years older than I am.

[Frank Krygowski]

On 5/28/2023 4:34 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> I am only six years older than the Golden Gate Bridge.

?? You're 92?


--
- Frank Krygowski

[Frank Krygowski]

On 5/28/2023 4:46 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> .. the Golden Gate Bridge is only 6 years older than I am.

:-) That took only two tries to get right! Congratulations!

--
- Frank Krygowski

[Andre Jute]

Bernard Rohloff and Phil Wood are like a hand and glove to some of us who are privileged to have the Rohloff internal gear hub with the EXT gear change coupler. It's the little black box that sits on the end of the axle with the twin cables of the gear change coming in at one side. For service, some of us pack it with Phil's green stuff. Everything works capably, the grease turns to oil at the moving parts but stays grease like on all the surfaces that require sealing and works as a sealant at the edges until it is thoroughly contaminated, which could take years.
>
As for how many Rohloffs you've seen in the flesh, I expect you just sent the RBT average up by about 100 percent, pH in Aptos. Third or fourth day after heart surgery I was walking for exercise, my wife holding my arm, and I said, "See that grubby bike against the restaurant wall there. It's got a Rohloff, the black thing at the centre of the rear wheel." I was bending over the bike, inspecting the canvas saddlebag (at the time I used two Bally leather briefcases as panniers but was thinking of fitting a bottom bracket electric motor to my bike, which would necessitate a new place to keep my camera and wallet and emergency phone and snacks), when the owner of the bike came out of the restaurant to find me with my nose inches from his bike luggage. Fortunately, at that moment I spotted, in grey against the grey of the bike, the name THORN on the downtube and was able to say, "You and I probably know each other on the Thorn forum. I'm Andre Jute." It turned out he and I had some correspondence on the forum. Only one I ever saw on the road. If you want to see many together, you have to go to the summer bash Utopia-Velo (my bike-maker of choice) throws for their customers in the forest inside the Utopia-Velo test track in Germany, where Herr Rohloff used to attend and was the soul of the party.
>
Andre Jute
Since a Rohloff Speed 14 lasts forever (nobody knows what the MTBF is, except that it is somewhere north of 400K+), no matter how exclusive it might be, eventually you will run into another owner.
>

[Andre Jute]

Do you think that just once in your life you could restrain your constant impulse to nastiness, Krygowski? That's two sickening, needling little eruptions of your viciousness -- in a thread celebrating a great engineer in bicycle space, his life and achievements. Show a little respect, eh? Or, if you can't manage the decency for respect, just shut up and stay out of the obituary thread.

[Tom Kunich]

From Memory, the hub is $1500 and you have to have a custom made frame to install it on. Can you tell the added rolling resistance of gear train?

[Tom Kunich]

Unfortunately, Krygowski cannot have a REAL engineer cited without him getting a vicious inferiority complex which accounts for his reaction.

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Sun, 28 May 2023 13:34:49 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:

Nice change of topic. That's no way to treat your one and only
supporter, Andre Jute.

>Trump was the only modern President to actually
>understand money and where its value actually comes from.

Really?

Failed Trump businesses:
1. Trump Steaks
2. GoTrump
3. Trump Airlines
4. Trump Vodka
5. Trump Mortgage
6. Trump: The Game
7. Trump Magazine
8. Trump University
9. Trump Ice
10. The New Jersey Generals
11. Tour de Trump (https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=310738639627705)
12. Trump Network
13. Trumped!

Trump companies that required bankruptcy protection:
1. Trump Taj Mahal
2. Trump’s Castle
3. Trump Plaza Casinos
4. Trump Plaza Hotel
5. Trump Hotels and Casinos Resorts
6. Trump Entertainment Resorts

>Listening to Economists like that ass Janet Yellen shows
> that even education has been inflated so greatly that
>people like Liebermann can get a degree that he can
>never use, Degrees are now absolutely worthless.

Ah, I see that you've read my comments about you losing your
eyeglasses. Are you enjoying your amazing $500 glasses?

>What is the value of more and more people knowing less and less?

I don't know. Perhaps you should explain how you value this
knowledge? Hopefully, it's mor than you value an education.

Degree in navigation and Chabot College in Hayward
02/09/2021
<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/_Y1MbXuzvNo/m/o6omSxsfAgAJ>
"general education - Degree in navigation
Tality requested I get a BA so that they could promote me to
department manager
Chabot College - Hayward, CA"

12/31/2021
<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/-Hmh6pTCz7U/m/XiKHzpeCDwAJ>
"I was rather taken aback to discover that I had a degree in ship's
navigation. And from a prestigious school in Marin County as well."

01/10/2022
<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/-Hmh6pTCz7U/m/Jn5pFuaGAQAJ>
"I do not nor ever had a sense of self importance."


--
Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

[John B.]

On Sun, 28 May 2023 13:34:49 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:

Tom, you have to be one of the, if not the, the most stupid
individuals I've ever met!

The value of any object is what someone will pay you for it. Your
example of Gold is a perfect example. On 1 Jan 2023 gold jewelry here
sold for (in U,S. dollars) $862.31 for 1 baht weight (15,244 grams).
On 26 May 2023 gold sold for $940.47/baht. A difference of $79.19.

Do you really think that the May gold took less labor the make then
January gold?

Or U.S. dollars. I read that the actual cost of making a U.S. $1.00
bill is 7.5 cents but the value of a $1.00 note is substantially
higher then 7.5 cents, isn't it?

--
Cheers,

John B.

[Andre Jute]

You're thinking of different bike gearbox, Tom, perhaps the Pinion. The Rohloff is a hub gearbox, spoked into the rim. So you can take it from bike to bike.
>
The PRICE of a Rohloff Speed 14 is irrelevant. You want instead to think about the COST of Rohloff Speed 14 compared to the cost of derailleurs and chains. A Rolloff HGB will do over 400K kilometres or a quarter-million miles and nobody knows at what distance it will wear out because in a quarter-century none have. So the ANNUAL cost of a Rohloff 0000001 is (to take your number without irrelevant argument) $1500/25YEARS = $60 p.a. standing cost plus say two services per year for 10000km/6000 miles say $25 (actually less if you buy the oil in bulk as most savvy owners do) plus say a quarter tube of Phil's over the same period, call it $5 just to make a round number, and now you're up to $90pa for 6000m or 1.5 cents per mile, forever. If there are any derailleur seats which can do that, I should like to know about them. But it gets better because when you fit a Rohloff, you get better mileage of a whole bunch of other components, and it mounts up in a hurry. When I switched to Rohloff, my chain life jumped from roundabout a thousand miles per chain to near enough 3000m per chain, a saving of $56. The derailleur cranksets and sprockets I used (Shimano Nexus -- expensive crap) wore out at about a thousand miles too, so the saving was two of those, call it $400 saving over 6000m, and now the savings from a Rohloff over 6K miles per annum when compared to derailleurs is $456, the outgoing is $90, and the net gain from replacing derailleurs with a Rohloff is $366 per annum. Over 25 years of doing 6K miles per year, the saving is $9150, which absolutely dwarfs the original $1500 outlay.
>
As for this:

>Can you tell the added rolling resistance of gear train?

I hear it often. It's an irrelevant question. It's been tested and the derailleur boosters danced around with joy at discovering that a Rohloff was a couple of percentage points less efficient than derailleurs. Those poor dumb fuckwits should have put their their minds in gear before they declared a victory. See, you take the setups they installed out of the lab and ride them a hundred miles. The Rohloff is sealed (and on mine the chain is sealed and never opened in over 3000 miles) and delivers precisely the same efficiency over every one of those hundred miles, or a thousand if you like, or 3000 miles if you wish, until the next service, while the efficiency of the derailleur setup is degraded before it is out of the driveway before the lab, and continues to degrade with every mile. Notice how the testers never test at the end of a hundred miles, because they know the test will not return the answer they want, that derailleurs are superior.
>
The value of the time a Rohloff rider does NOT spend on cleaning irrelevant, old-fashioned, fragile, dirty derailleur transmissions is incalculable. The cleaning materials should be added on to the cost of operating derailleurs in my comparison above, but why bother when I've already demonstrated that a Rohloff pays for itself in four years (1500/366 = 4.1).
>
Andre Jute
I'm too poor to buy anything but the best.
>

[Andre Jute]

This is the problem with a lack of education enabled to great foolishness by the so-called "facts" on the net. David Ricardo, one of the most influential classical economists, wrote tomes proving that the cost of labour determines the price, starting with agricultural labour because everyone must eat or die. In his time Ricardo made sense. Karl Marx, the most influential economist who ever lived, took Ricardo's Labour Theory of Price and formulated his heresy of socialism on it.
>
Unsigned
>

[AMuzi]

On 5/28/2023 4:44 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Sunday, May 28, 2023 at 2:33:17 PM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:

Rohloff does not require a custom frame.
Anything with horizontal ends (or an eccentric) suitable to
a fixed gear or three speed can take a Rohloff.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[AMuzi]

I don't see those Trump entity listings as unusual or
derogatory.

Out of something over 500 business entities, yes Mr Trump
failed several times with large losses to the creditors.
That said, he was and is still very bankable as, when
considered with his other many successes, overall he's a
reasonable credit risk. At a significantly smaller scale I
share that with him so it makes sense to me.

And myriad branded products, some frivolous or ditzy? Sure,
and the ones which didn't sell were terminated. That's
another mark of the creative business mind. It's a feature
not a bug.

[AMuzi]

Although muddled, Mr Kunich is right that a currency is the
stored value of labor.

Gold is an unique medium only by being more universally
accepted than other commodities or currencies. Dollar value
of gold at any given moment reflects an immense range of
factors from macro policies of all the central banks
together, the jewelry market in India (largest consumer of
gold products as products) and so on. Industrial gold
consumption and world gold production vary within narrow
ranges compared to other factors.

[Tom Kunich]

I seem to remember that the Rohloff hub is wider than a standard bicycle read width and that the shift mechanism requires wire guides on the opposite side of the bike and two rather than one. I could be wrong but my T-shirt says is all - "I'm an Engineer so to save time let's just all assume I'm correct."

[Tom Kunich]

You're quite right. Slocomb is not very bright and over time is getting much worse. He sees effect and somehow conflates it to cause. There is NO particular value of gold or silver other than what man is willing to put on it. This is so far beyond the thought processes of the Stupid 4 that it is completely foreign to them. They work fair for making a tooth filling or a Chalice to claim Jesus drank out of at the Last Supper. Jesus was a carpenter or a fisherman, where would they have ever gotten a Gold Chalice unless it was an everyday item?

The ONE advantage of being on the gold standard is that it necessarily limited the growth of the monetary system to that in which gold could be discovered and mined. As we can see from the idiot Democrats ideas, there is no such limits to printing cash. The US is already in a recession and is falling rapidly towards a depression. As goes the US, so goes the free world. Let's here more ignorance from Slocomb when he cannot buy food when the Thai's decide that foreigners and particularly Americans are not welcome when their new friends become the Chinese who will be able to claim that they can still produce food.

[John B.]

You might rationalize that but it just isn't correct. Or perhaps it is
correct under certain circumstances.

Indonesia, way back when, decreased the value of their currency simply
by announcing each morning that the Indonesian government would buy
dollars for X amount of local currency.

This was done, basically to reduce the national debt as Indonesia had
a large amount of debt denoted in Rupiah and a large government income
from the oil boom. This reduce the value of local currency vis-a-vis
the income.

I'm not sure but I think Thailand may have done the same thing. At
least there was considerable talk in the news about how reducing the
value of the baht against the U.S. dollar would help increate foreign
sales and suddenly it happened.

The Greek economy fell flat on it's arse because thy didn't pay their
debts.

--
Cheers,

John B.

[AMuzi]

You are not wrong that spendthrift sovereign states
regularly disavow or discount their debts through devaluation.

Which has nothing to do with gold.

In your example, imported products in Indonesia become more
expensive to Indonesians. The local gold price goes up in
rupiyah but the value of gold worldwide does not change.

[Tom Kunich]

John knows almost as much about economics as he does about repairing carbon fiber bicycles.

[John B.]

On Mon, 29 May 2023 07:30:00 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Sunday, May 28, 2023 at 5:04:46?PM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:

I see, you are saying, "There is NO particular value of gold or silver
other than what man is willing to put on it.".

Which is exactly what I stated above, "The value of any object is what

someone will pay you for it."

So what are you arguing about?

>
>The ONE advantage of being on the gold standard is that it necessarily limited the growth of the monetary system to that in which gold could be discovered and mined. As we can see from the idiot Democrats ideas, there is no such limits to printing cash. The US is already in a recession and is falling rapidly towards a depression. As goes the US, so goes the free world. Let's here more ignorance from Slocomb when he cannot buy food when the Thai's decide that foreigners and particularly Americans are not welcome when their new friends become the Chinese who will be able to claim that they can still produce food.

That's a bit garbled. "Chinese who will be able to claim that they can
still produce food."

I'm not sure what you are talking about. But, as for tourists...
" In 2015, 6.7 million people arrived from ASEAN countries and the
number is expected to grow to 8.3 million in 2016, generating 245
billion baht.[16] The largest numbers of Western tourists came from
Russia (6.5%), the UK (3.7%), Australia (3.4%) and the US (3.1%). In
2015, Chinese tourists numbered 7.9 million or 27% of all
international tourist arrivals.

So 3% from the U.S. and 27% from China? Do you really think that
Thailand cares about 3%?
--
Cheers,

John B.

[John B.]

There is a "gimmick" here.

Developing nations normally import very little of what is required by
the bulk of the population. Food and housing.... all done with locally
production.

When Thailand devaluated their currency vis-a-vis the U.S. dollar the
cost of rice on the local market, for example, didn't change but the
value of the countries exports, in local currency, to the U.S.
increased.

Gold is a bit different in parts of Asia, as it was, and is today to
some extent, simply a means of holding money. When you harvest your
rice crop, and pay off your debts, if there is any money left over you
buy your wife a gold neck chain and later in the year, when money is
short, you sell the chain. Essentially the price of gold per unit
is/was meaningless. You bought a chain and you sold a chain.

Of course if you buy gold as an investment it is a different story
(:-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

[AMuzi]

That's not right.
A devalued baht makes rice exports cheaper in bhat but does
not affect world commodities (rice price in dollars) or
other currency values. US buyers paying in bhat get cheaper
rice in dollars.

Your gold example is a classic application of the fact that
currencies and gold are the stored value of labor.

[Tom Kunich]

The point I was trying to make is that Gold or Silver have very little intrinsic value. A gold standard DOES limit the speed with which money can be expanded and we cam off of the gold standard when we could not expand the money supply under the gold standard as rapidly as the growth of the GDP (or whatever it is presently being called to confuse the issue) . If you cannot expand the money supply as rapidly as the growth in GDP you do not have enough money for the products available which causes deflation. If this occurs rapidly enough, the economy collapses.

[Jeff Liebermann]

Most of those businesses were inherited from his father, Fred Trump.
Donald received about $400 million (2018 dollars) from his father over
Donald's lifetime. Ownership of the (500) real estate and business
entities went to "The Trump Organization".
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Trump_Organization>
I'm not going to attempt to determine what percentage of the Trump
Organization assets was involved in bankruptcies. I agree that it was
insufficient to cause the organization to collapse, probably because
the creditors and investors absorbed a large part of the losses.
<https://www.newsweek.com/kurtz-trump-backlash-66503>
""I do play with the bankruptcy laws - they're very good for me" as a
way of cutting debt, Trump says."

>That said, he was and is still very bankable as, when
>considered with his other many successes, overall he's a
>reasonable credit risk. At a significantly smaller scale I
>share that with him so it makes sense to me.

Agreed. However, that's not what we're discussing. Tom wrote:
"Trump was the only modern President to actually understand money and
where its value actually comes from."

The question is whether he understands money. I'm not so sure.
Whether we're ready to again trust the economy to someone with a
substantial number of business failures is questionable. I would
prefer an alternative candidate who does not seem to rely on
bankruptcy laws to manage his debt. Here's a list of the top 400 US
billionaires:
<https://www.forbes.com/forbes-400/>
"Trump Rejoins The Forbes 400 A Year After Falling Off The List"
<https://www.forbes.com/sites/danalexander/2022/09/27/trump-rejoins-the-forbes-400-a-year-after-falling-off-the-list/
I couldn't find a list of billionaires that included their past
business failures and bankruptcies. If you find such as list, I'm
interested. Also, I found something on Warren Buffett's opinion of
Donald Trump from 1991:
<https://www.yahoo.com/news/warren-buffett-comments-on-trump-at-notre-dame-in-1991-134008040.html>
""The big problem with Donald Trump was he never went right. He
basically overpaid for properties, but he got people to lend him the
money. He was terrific at borrowing money. If you look at his assets,
and what he paid for them, and what he borrowed to get them, there was
never any real equity there."

>And myriad branded products, some frivolous or ditzy? Sure,
>and the ones which didn't sell were terminated. That's
>another mark of the creative business mind. It's a feature
>not a bug.

It would have been better if Donald Trump took fewer risks. Creative
finance is the result of a creative mind, which is probably a bad idea
on the national level.

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Mon, 29 May 2023 12:23:21 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>
wrote:
(...)

Speaking of creative minds and the value of money, I found this video:
"Massive FAKE Silver Scam Operation - BUYER BEWARE"
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kT8zAmPGI5I>

It appears that our permanent "most favored nation" is now being VERY
creative with money:
"Most favored nation"
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Most_favoured_nation>

[AMuzi]

Bicycle content!

Sam Zell just died (last net worth $5+ billion) recently.
He utterly ruined Schwinn before moving on to destroy my
favorite newspaper of all time, The Chicago Tribune (now a
mockery of itself) among other escapades.

https://chicago.suntimes.com/business/2023/5/18/23728642/sam-zell-dies-obituary-billionaire-chicago-equity-group

[AMuzi]

On 5/29/2023 2:31 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Mon, 29 May 2023 12:23:21 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>
> wrote:
> (...)
>
> Speaking of creative minds and the value of money, I found this video:
> "Massive FAKE Silver Scam Operation - BUYER BEWARE"
> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kT8zAmPGI5I>
>
> It appears that our permanent "most favored nation" is now being VERY
> creative with money:
> "Most favored nation"
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Most_favoured_nation>
>

I didn't know that, thanks.
Invoking the Capt Bryan Suits Rule, "Why wouldn't they?"

[Tom Kunich]

I wonder how many hours a day that Liebermann spends leafing though Wikipedia looking for something to inform us all about? Is this the way he thinks he can prove that he was awarded a degree in electronics engineering that he was never able to use?

After I observed his resume I decided that he had chosen analog electronics (which is an extremely complex subject) and so was not up to making a living in that area (Though Joerg happily make a great career out of it.) But let is remember that this was entirely Liebermann's decision and digital electronics while very difficult in its own sphere most analog engineers I met were never able to master it. While I on the other hand could design the entire front end data processing via analog and then making the proper conversions to digital and then back out on the opposite end.

So precisely why do we have Liebermann quoting someone else in order to make a point?

I was never caught in one of these scams simply because I didn't trust get rich quick schemes. In another week I get to see how much more money I made in my get rich slow schemes.

"Most Favored Nation" status is nothing more than another load of BS invented by politicians for themselves. Were there ANY sense to it Russia would be one of the top most favored nations rather than made the enemy of the world with the Slime Stream Media attacking them at every chance. Imagine if Russia were a friend rather than an enemy. Fully a third of our military budget would be unnecessary. This would also work at least that well for Russia. But the Democrats try very hard to starve Russian peasants as they are trying Americans.

[John B.]

On Mon, 29 May 2023 13:34:08 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:

Tommy... You are an idiot. U.S. trade with Russia is
Month Exports Imports
January 2023 44.6 508.6
February 2023 61.2 642.8
March 2023 66.4 561.9
All figures in millions of U.S. Dollars
https://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/balance/c4621.html
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Andre Jute]

And since Slow Johnny knows buggerall about economics, you'd better not trust your life to a carbon bike he has repaired. -- AJ
>

[Tom Kunich]

He really has lost it. There isn't one thing that he has said that makes the slightest sense. He cannot tell the difference in changes and variations due to buying habits. He certainly doesn't know the difference between millions, billions and trillions. But he can cut and paste things off of Google that he thinks are relevant even when they aren't even about the same subject.

[John B.]

Nope. 1 ton of rice, highest quality, for export, FOB Bangkok, 23 May
2023, U.S.$ 1,071. In local currency @ 34 baht/$1.00 = baht 36,414
In local currencies before the devaluation, baht at 20/$1,00 the value
in local currency would have been 21,420 baht.

But prices for local consumption remain about the same,disregarding
normal inflation increases, primarily because Thailand produces far
more rice then is exported.

>Your gold example is a classic application of the fact that
>currencies and gold are the stored value of labor.

That needs a bit of explanation I think as 1 baht (weight) of gold
retailed for 20,750 baht on 26 Mar 2016 and on 26 Mar 2023 the same 1
baht weight would cost you 32,550 baht.
This could have been the same 1 baht (weight) neck chain in both
instances, laying there in the display case..

But certainly you can store value, designated as labor if you wish, in
gold but I don't believe that the value of gold has any relationship
to the value of labor. As an example, I read that the minimum salary
(value of labor) in the U.S. is pretty much $15.00 an hour while in
Thailand it is 300 baht a day -$1.10/hour. Thus gold prices in the
U.S. should be 15 times higher then in Bangkok? But they are not (:-)


--
Cheers,

John B.

[John B.]

On Mon, 29 May 2023 09:49:11 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:

That is true that gold has a much lesser value when used in industry
then an investment. But the idea of a "gold standard" in today's world
is silly. Some 3,000 metric tons of gold are mined annually which have
a value of about 11 billion U.S. dollars. The U.S. budget is in the 5
- 6 trillion dollar range.

And yes the U.S. budget could be reduced.... get rid of Social
Security, Medicare, Medicaid, Aid to single mothers, Unemployment and
all the other "give away" schemes... But a politician would have a
"damned hard row to hoe" advocating such cost reductions. Which
amounted to more then 4.43 trillion of the Mandatory portion of the
U.S. budget which is about 5.2 trillion.

--
Cheers,

John B.

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Mon, 29 May 2023 13:34:08 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:

>I wonder how many hours a day that Liebermann spends leafing
>though Wikipedia looking for something to inform us all about?

On average, I spend about 3 hrs per day dealing with email and Usenet
news. About half that is in rec.bicycles.tech. Maybe 30 mins reading
Wikipedia articles and various web pages. I find that learning new
things to be useful, interesting and educational. For debatable
topics, I usually follow the "external links" for details and sources.
I include Wikipedia links in my rants to substantiate my claims and to
provide material for those who wish to know more.

I wonder how many hours a day that Tom spends reading
<https://townhall.com>
so that he can reinforce his misconceptions?

>Is this the way he thinks he can prove that he was awarded
>a degree in electronics engineering that he was never able to use?

<https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeff-liebermann-151823/details/experience/>
I was employed in an engineering capacity from 06/1971 through 10/1984
(13 years 43 months). Subtract a total of about 2 years for travel.
Add about 10 years of part time consulting. I'm sorry that you don't
recognize various design projects as being engineering.

Incidentally, my BSEE was in Electrical and Electronic engineering:
<http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/crud/diploma-jeffl.jpg>

>After I observed his resume I decided that he had chosen analog
>electronics (which is an extremely complex subject)

The words "analog" and "digital" do not appear anywhere in my resume.

>and so was not up to making a living in that area (Though Joerg
>happily make a great career out of it.)

I bought 2.5 houses (with mortgages) with my meager salary as an
engineer. My step mother inherited the family house in Los Angeles.
As I understand it, you inherited the title to your mother's house.
Then something happened in 02/2010 through 10/2011, which inspired you
to put the house up for sale three times, with 4 price changes and one
fall through:
<https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/3539-Monterey-Blvd-San-Leandro-CA-94578/24883743_zpid/>
See: Home Details -> Price and Tax History
Then, no more attempts to sell the house. What happened? Did you do
a reverse mortgage, grab the money, and are now living on it?

>But let is remember that
>this was entirely Liebermann's decision and digital electronics
>while very difficult in its own sphere most analog engineers
>I met were never able to master it.

My employers (and later my clients) were all fairly small companies.
They didn't have the luxury of employing specialists in analog and
digital. The specialization was by product category, such as RF, DSP,
uP, PS, SPICE simulation, antennas, communications protocols, etc.
Most, if not all, of the engineers were required to do "whatever is
necessary". I made the transition from FM 2-way radio to HF SSB in
about a week, mostly by reading every available book on SSB. It's not
difficult. I suppose going from analog to digital might have required
more effort, but I never had to do that because the colleges and
former employers provided a good education and useful experience in
many diverse fields.

>While I on the other hand could design the entire front end data
>processing via analog and then making the proper conversions to
>digital and then back out on the opposite end.

Amazing, truly amazing. Did someone pay you to do that, or were you
showing off some of the amazing but worthless things you could do?

>So precisely why do we have Liebermann quoting someone else
>in order to make a point?

Exactly. I don't expect anyone to believe me unless I can
substantiate my claims. Oddly, you seem to expect everyone to accept
your rubbish at face value.

>I was never caught in one of these scams simply because I didn't
>trust get rich quick schemes. In another week I get to see how
>much more money I made in my get rich slow schemes.

Please let me know when you post your investment returns.

>"Most Favored Nation" status is nothing more than another load
>of BS invented by politicians for themselves.

>(politics deleted)

Well, you might be right. All you have to do is find and link to
something on the internet that agrees with your judgment. I'll wait.

[John B.]

On Tue, 30 May 2023 09:01:59 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>

Special addition for Tommy

Million - 1,000,000
Billion - 1,000,000,000
Trillion - 1,000,000,000,000

But wait! There are two kinds of Trillion, The short version shown
above that is used in both American and British English

And the long version 1,000,000,000,000,000,000, as defined on the long
scale, and used in many non-English-speaking countries.


--
Cheers,

John B.

[John B.]

On Mon, 29 May 2023 19:36:00 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>
wrote:

Sort of on topic (:-) I use the Wikki as a base. Look it up on the
Wikki as a start and then, if necessary, research the references
listed at the bottom of the article :-)

What Tommy doesn't realize that he can, if he wishes, post things on
the Wikki.

Of course, he will have to include a reference, i.e., proof, that he
actually knows what he is talking about and is telling the
truth....... which may be an insurmountable problem, but he could try.


--
Cheers,

John B.

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Tue, 30 May 2023 09:45:22 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>Special addition for Tommy
>
>Million - 1,000,000
>Billion - 1,000,000,000
>Trillion - 1,000,000,000,000
>
>But wait! There are two kinds of Trillion, The short version shown
>above that is used in both American and British English
>
>And the long version 1,000,000,000,000,000,000, as defined on the long
>scale, and used in many non-English-speaking countries.

Maybe it's time to add money to the Metric (SI) system? If so, 1
trillion dollars would be 1 tera dollar.
<https://www.nist.gov/pml/owm/metric-si-prefixes>

Unfortunately, that would not be the only prefix that would need
changing:
decadollar $10
hectodollar $100
kilodollar $1,000
megadollar $1,000,000
gigadollar $1,000,000,000
teradollar $1,000,000,000,000
petadollar $1,000,000,000,000,000

Never mind...

[John B.]

On Mon, 29 May 2023 20:27:06 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>
wrote:

>On Tue, 30 May 2023 09:45:22 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>>Special addition for Tommy
>>
>>Million - 1,000,000
>>Billion - 1,000,000,000
>>Trillion - 1,000,000,000,000
>>
>>But wait! There are two kinds of Trillion, The short version shown
>>above that is used in both American and British English
>>
>>And the long version 1,000,000,000,000,000,000, as defined on the long
>>scale, and used in many non-English-speaking countries.
>
>Maybe it's time to add money to the Metric (SI) system? If so, 1
>trillion dollars would be 1 tera dollar.
><https://www.nist.gov/pml/owm/metric-si-prefixes>
>
>Unfortunately, that would not be the only prefix that would need
>changing:
> decadollar $10
> hectodollar $100
> kilodollar $1,000
> megadollar $1,000,000
> gigadollar $1,000,000,000
> teradollar $1,000,000,000,000
> petadollar $1,000,000,000,000,000
>
>Never mind...

You are making a rather basic error. Remember, you are talking to Tom
and all that hicko and picko stuff will, as the saying goes, "fly
right over his head".

Better start with... This is a "One", holding your index finger...
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Tue, 30 May 2023 11:49:12 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>

I never make basic errors. My errors are always complexicated.

>Remember, you are talking to Tom
>and all that hicko and picko stuff will, as the saying goes, "fly
>right over his head".

Actually, my comments were directed at you. Had they been directed at
Tom, he would have replied by now with an insult, some
self-aggrandizement, and ending with a drastic change of topic,
preferably something familiar.

>Better start with... This is a "One", holding your index finger...

There's a reason that a single dollar is missing from the list.
There's no need for a prefix to the dollar to represent a single
dollar, when it can be represented using the other SI units. For
example, 1 dollar would be a:
deci-deka-dollar
centi-hecto-dollar
milli-kilo-dollar
micro-mega-dollar
and so on.

[John B.]

On Tue, 30 May 2023 00:05:21 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>

Wrong Guy (:-) I don't deal in dollars (:-)

>>Better start with... This is a "One", holding your index finger...
>
>There's a reason that a single dollar is missing from the list.
>There's no need for a prefix to the dollar to represent a single
>dollar, when it can be represented using the other SI units. For
>example, 1 dollar would be a:
> deci-deka-dollar
> centi-hecto-dollar
> milli-kilo-dollar
> micro-mega-dollar
>and so on.

But, but, but you just used a prefix (:-) A "single" dollar (:-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

[AMuzi]

That's backwards.
Your rice example is not evidence of devaluation (unless
across the time period USD value declined faster than baht
value).

Devaluation by definition means each baht is worth less than
previously, normally reflecting macro trends of increased
sovereign debt or reduced production or both.

[AMuzi]

All great ideas but, as you note, unlikely in the here and now.

History sadly shows that either spending reduces through
policy or eventually the debtors enforce it.

[Catrike Rider]

On Tue, 30 May 2023 09:01:59 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>

>And yes the U.S. budget could be reduced.... get rid of Social
>Security, Medicare, Medicaid, Aid to single mothers, Unemployment and
>all the other "give away" schemes... But a politician would have a
>"damned hard row to hoe" advocating such cost reductions. Which
>amounted to more then 4.43 trillion of the Mandatory portion of the
>U.S. budget which is about 5.2 trillion.

Surely you must know that Social Security is not a "give away" scheme,
it's a forced Ponzi scheme.

[Mike A Schwab]

On Monday, May 29, 2023 at 2:24:56 PM UTC-5, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
<deleted>

> Also, I found something on Warren Buffett's opinion of
> Donald Trump from 1991:
> <https://www.yahoo.com/news/warren-buffett-comments-on-trump-at-notre-dame-in-1991-134008040.html>
> ""The big problem with Donald Trump was he never went right. He
> basically overpaid for properties, but he got people to lend him the
> money. He was terrific at borrowing money. If you look at his assets,
> and what he paid for them, and what he borrowed to get them, there was
> never any real equity there."
> >And myriad branded products, some frivolous or ditzy? Sure,
> >and the ones which didn't sell were terminated. That's
> >another mark of the creative business mind. It's a feature
> >not a bug.
> It would have been better if Donald Trump took fewer risks. Creative
> finance is the result of a creative mind, which is probably a bad idea
> on the national level.
> --
> Jeff Liebermann

Don't forget Trump's favorite negotiating technique: Don't pay the bill.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2016/06/01/donald-trump-lawsuits-legal-battles/84995854/

[John B.]

Yes, I know how it was designed to work but I believe that in a year
or so it will be paying out more then it takes in.

--
Cheers,

John B.

[AMuzi]

Or a "take away" scheme.

Here's how it works (minute and a half):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7Lu3fQULMs

Just keep your eye on the 'lock box'.

[John B.]

But that is how the modern democratic system actually works. "Vote for
ME and I will...".
--
Cheers,

John B.

[John B.]

It wasn't meant to be an example of devaluation. It was intended to
show how selling rice in U.S. dollars produced more baht when the
exchange rate between U.S. dollars and Thai baht changed.

If I sell you a ton of rice for $1,000 with a dollar-baht exchange
rate of 20 baht to the dollar I received for the U.S. $1,000 some
20,000 baht. If I make the same deal at a 34/1$ exchange rate I have
34,000 baht.

The point is that the cost of local produced food and materials didn't
change. Something that cost 100 baht before devaluation of the
dollar/baht exchange rate remained 100 baht after the devaluation.
Thus, effectively, the local value of the rice sold at the higher
exchange rate was greater then that sold at the lower exchange rate.
--
Cheers,

John B.

[AMuzi]

An otherwise unknown Alexander Tytler put that pithily two
hundred years ago:


“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government.
It can only exist until the voters discover that they can
vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that
moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates
promising the most benefits from the public treasury with
the result that a democracy always collapses over loose
fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship. The
average age of the world's greatest civilizations has been
200 years. These nations have progressed through this
sequence: From bondage to spiritual faith; From spiritual
faith to great courage; From courage to liberty; From
liberty to abundance; From abundance to selfishness; From
selfishness to apathy; From apathy to dependence; From
dependence back into bondage.”
― Alexander Fraser Tytler

Polybios got the concept right but Tytler made it memorable.

[AMuzi]

I misunderstood you, thanks.

And yes that's right as I noted originally. The prime effect
of devaluation is that imports become more expensive for
Thais and exports are cheaper in local currency.

[Catrike Rider]

On Tue, 30 May 2023 21:27:04 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>

wrote:

>On Tue, 30 May 2023 09:46:16 -0400, Catrike Rider
><sol...@drafting.not> wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 30 May 2023 09:01:59 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>And yes the U.S. budget could be reduced.... get rid of Social
>>>Security, Medicare, Medicaid, Aid to single mothers, Unemployment and
>>>all the other "give away" schemes... But a politician would have a
>>>"damned hard row to hoe" advocating such cost reductions. Which
>>>amounted to more then 4.43 trillion of the Mandatory portion of the
>>>U.S. budget which is about 5.2 trillion.
>>
>>Surely you must know that Social Security is not a "give away" scheme,
>>it's a forced Ponzi scheme.
>
>Yes, I know how it was designed to work but I believe that in a year
>or so it will be paying out more then it takes in.

That doesn't mean it's a give away. Many people (me) have
"contributed" and only want back what they were promised. Had I
invested those contributions, I would be getting a lot more. Another
example of government incompetence.

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Tue, 30 May 2023 15:16:54 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>Wrong Guy (:-) I don't deal in dollars (:-)

Well, specie is measured in Troy ounces. 1 Troy ounce would be 480
grains, or in metric 31.1034768 grams per Troy ounce. To make things
easier, maybe you should switch to dollars?

>>>Better start with... This is a "One", holding your index finger...
>>
>>There's a reason that a single dollar is missing from the list.
>>There's no need for a prefix to the dollar to represent a single
>>dollar, when it can be represented using the other SI units. For
>>example, 1 dollar would be a:
>> deci-deka-dollar
>> centi-hecto-dollar
>> milli-kilo-dollar
>> micro-mega-dollar
>>and so on.

>But, but, but you just used a prefix (:-) A "single" dollar (:-)

Yes, it's a prefix. However ALL monetary amounts are expressed in the
same manner. One could replace the "dollar" with multiple repetitions
of the world "dollar" where 5 dollars would be
"dollar-dollar-dollar-dollar-dollar", but that rapidly becomes
cumbersome. Also, I'm not sure if "prefix" is the proper term for
innumerating the number of dollars. I skimmed the grammar rules for
money:
<https://www.grammarbook.com/numbers/numbers.asp>
"This is a complex topic, with many exceptions, and there is no
consistency we can rely on among blogs, books, newspapers, and
magazines. This chapter will confine itself to rules that all media
seem to agree on."

and immediately gave up. See what I mean by me not making basic
mistakes? I only make complexicated mistakes.

[Tom Kunich]

You're talking to a solid stone wall.

[pH]

On 2023-05-28, Andre Jute <fiul...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Sunday, May 28, 2023 at 9:38:59 PM UTC+1, pH wrote:

>> On 2023-05-27, Andre Jute <fiul...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> > Bernard Rohloff was a great engineer, the inventor of the best internal hub gearbox, the Rohloff Speed 14, which made the lives of cyclists so much more convenient.
>> >>
>> > Andre Jute
>> > Now let us praise famous men. -- Ecclesiastes
>> >>

>> I'm sorry to hear that. Right up there w/ the late Phil Wood.
>>
>> God Speed Bernard Rohloff.
>>
>> (I've still only seen two or three Rohloffs in the 'wild'.)
>>
>> pH in Aptos
>>
> Bernard Rohloff and Phil Wood are like a hand and glove to some of us who
> are privileged to have the Rohloff internal gear hub with the EXT gear
> change coupler. It's the little black box that sits on the end of the
> axle with the twin cables of the gear change coming in at one side. For
> service, some of us pack it with Phil's green stuff. Everything works
> capably, the grease turns to oil at the moving parts but stays grease like
> on all the surfaces that require sealing and works as a sealant at the
> edges until it is thoroughly contaminated, which could take years.
>>
> As for how many Rohloffs you've seen in the flesh, I expect you just sent
> the RBT average up by about 100 percent, pH in Aptos. Third or fourth day
> after heart surgery I was walking for exercise, my wife holding my arm,

Heart surgery! Yow! I hope all is well and that you've made a full
recovery and that whatever it was is fixed (well, as good as medicine can
do, anyway.) I think eventually we'll be able to find a way to convince our
bodies to "grow things back".

pH




> and I said, "See that grubby bike against the restaurant wall there. It's
> got a Rohloff, the black thing at the centre of the rear wheel." I was
> bending over the bike, inspecting the canvas saddlebag (at the time I used
> two Bally leather briefcases as panniers but was thinking of fitting a
> bottom bracket electric motor to my bike, which would necessitate a new
> place to keep my camera and wallet and emergency phone and snacks), when
> the owner of the bike came out of the restaurant to find me with my nose
> inches from his bike luggage. Fortunately, at that moment I spotted, in
> grey against the grey of the bike, the name THORN on the downtube and was
> able to say, "You and I probably know each other on the Thorn forum. I'm
> Andre Jute." It turned out he and I had some correspondence on the forum.
> Only one I ever saw on the road. If you want to see many together, you
> have to go to the summer bash Utopia-Velo (my bike-maker of choice) throws
> for their customers in the forest inside the Utopia-Velo test track in
> Germany, where Herr Rohloff used to attend and was the soul of the party.
>>
> Andre Jute Since a Rohloff Speed 14 lasts forever (nobody knows what the
> MTBF is, except that it is somewhere north of 400K+), no matter how
> exclusive it might be, eventually you will run into another owner.
>>

[Tom Kunich]

Of course Andre made a full recovery unlike the Hate Andre group here. Slocomb probably has a very hard time STANDING UP now. Krygowski is still young in years though old old old in thoughts and deeds. Liebermann is young but very sick and poor old Flunky is reduced to calling names because he can't think of anything better. He says he has a lot of bikes and at least raced at one time so he should have something more impressive stories. Wake up Flunky - what the hell have you been up to while I'm getting slower and slower?

[John B.]

On Tue, 30 May 2023 12:12:34 -0400, Catrike Rider

I really have no experience with it as working overseas I never paid
into it, but I would comment that I had no problems saving and
investing sufficient funds to retire on.
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Catrike Rider]

On Wed, 31 May 2023 05:12:02 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>

Me neither, obviously, but I had no choice but to "contribute" to SS,
and now, dammit, the government has "borrowed" (stolen) the the money,
and they're always looking for ways to reduce the payouts..

[Catrike Rider]

On Tue, 30 May 2023 18:23:55 -0400, Catrike Rider

"We're from the government and we're here to "help" (Fuck you over).

[sms]

On 5/28/2023 1:37 PM, pH wrote:
> On 2023-05-27, Andre Jute <fiul...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>> Bernard Rohloff was a great engineer, the inventor of the best internal hub gearbox, the Rohloff Speed 14, which made the lives of cyclists so much more convenient.
>>>
>> Andre Jute
>> Now let us praise famous men. -- Ecclesiastes
>>>
>
> I'm sorry to hear that. Right up there w/ the late Phil Wood.
>
> God Speed Bernard Rohloff.
>
> (I've still only seen two or three Rohloffs in the 'wild'.)

I saw one in a booth at Sea Otter last month. I've never seen one on in
the wild. It's a nice idea but the weight, the expense, and the
complexity, compared to conventional derailleur systems made it a niche
product. Now with 1x12 gearing it's even less appealing. What was nice
was the obsolete SRAM Dual Drive
<https://www.bentrideronline.com/archives/sram.html>.

--
“If you are not an expert on a subject, then your opinions about it
really do matter less than the opinions of experts. It's not
indoctrination nor elitism. It's just that you don't know as much as
they do about the subject.”—Tin Foil Awards

[John B.]

On Tue, 30 May 2023 09:45:23 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>
wrote:

>On Tue, 30 May 2023 15:16:54 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>>Wrong Guy (:-) I don't deal in dollars (:-)
>
>Well, specie is measured in Troy ounces. 1 Troy ounce would be 480
>grains, or in metric 31.1034768 grams per Troy ounce. To make things
>easier, maybe you should switch to dollars?
>

And what would I do with them? Even my housekeeper won't accept them

[Tom Kunich]

+
Social Security was a government scam from the very first. Average age of death of women then was 67 and average age of death for men 64. This paying for your retirement from 65 on (when usually only men in a household worked) really didn't work out well.

This put money in the pockets of the politicians to spend rather than invest in the country's future.

Never the less, I calculated that I have invested enough into SS for them to pay me until I'm 92 before I break even and they WILL keep that promise.

Why have we spent so much money on foreign wars started by Democrats? Why has the government expanded uncontrollably under every Democrat controlled regime? Why have we been enemies with the Russians for so long?

[AMuzi]

They spent your money (and mine) on people who didn't pay
in. Effectively the premiums were set well below the claims
payouts. When there was a cash balance it was not prudently
invested. If an insurance company had done similar, the
officers and actuaries would be in prison.

[John B.]

On Tue, 30 May 2023 18:23:55 -0400, Catrike Rider

No, No, No! The Government has "Borrowed" the money and as soon as the
budget allows it they will return it! See, you just don't understand
that it is really, really, important to give 3.9 billion "green back
dollars" to Afghanistan. (and 1 million to the People's Republic of
China :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Andre Jute]

Thanks for the good wishes, PH in Aptos. The surgeries were years ago. There's this very impressive theatre, a word I choose carefully because the whole thing looks like a bare TV production studio, with the operating table in the middle with the manipulators around you, and the controller, the chief surgeon and more of his minions, in a glass booth with screens. The whole affair made the surgeries, one exploratory, one to insert a spring (called a stent) in an artery to keep my blood flowing, appear pretty routine -- or maybe it's just because over the years I was in advertising I spent a good deal of time in film and television and sound studios (I actually owned one the latter for a time; Frank Sinatra recorded there at least once), ditto for when I was in the theatre and the movies. It's called keyhole surgery and they enter through your wrist or your hip. The first time I was out of hospital and riding my bike on the third day, but the second time something went wrong because it turned out that I was allergic to iodine, which when I was a young motor racer was splashed across my wounds by the gallon with no reaction.* Apparently it is a known effect, that people stand up to the iodine they pump in as a colorant when they've removed your blood so that they can see what's going on, and the second time there's a violently life-threatening reaction. Anyway, there were no lasting aftereffects except that forcing my mouth open, to check I wasn't choking on my tongue, they damaged the mandibular nerve which has been a bit touchy ever since, but a lot less serious than being dead. According to my dentist, this is a common aftereffect of surgery under anaesthetic. That time it took me a fair while to recover but I did recover. All of this happened probably ten years ago.
>
Andre Jute
*"reaction": There was this girl who was at school and college with me, a longtime chum. I dropped a dime on her with the motor racing authorities and she was appointed the trackside triage surgeon. One day a Portuguese greengrocer out of his league, trying to unlap himself, T-boned my car as I came out of the pits and I had to be cut out of the wreck, pretty uncomfortable. As with one hand she pulled the sheet over my face while raising the other hand to check her watch and saying, "He's gone. I'm calling it at....", she knocked a glass with liquid off the trolley table, and my hand reached out from under the sheet to catch the glass without spilling a drop, and my voice said from under the sheet, "Take the rest of the afternoon off to dye your hair blonde. I'd've expected at least a few tears, Mandy." And no, I didn't have any out-of-body experience, nor see the flames of hell, I only heard the angelic choir singing Handel which is a bit too temporal to ascribe to supernatural cause for a down-to-earth guy like me.
>

[Andre Jute]

The biggest criminals everywhere are the government. -- AJ
>

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Tue, 30 May 2023 14:55:45 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:

>Liebermann is young but very sick

75 years old is young? I'm honored and thank you for the compliment.
As for being very sick, that might be true at various times. It's
been 2 weeks since hiatal hernia surgery (05/15/2023). I was doing
just fine until I did something stupid, which set my recovery back a
few days. If I don't make any more stupid mistakes, I should be back
to normal in about 10 days.

A short 2 mile walk in the park last Friday:
<https://www.strava.com/activities/9145442368>
No records were broken, but I didn't collapse from exhaustion.

[Tom Kunich]

Only one out of 6 people are old enough for social security. Many of these people have private retirements and government workers have retirement funds that make SS piddling. So, on the whole SS is probably supported by 10 working people for every SS retiree. BUT and this is a big one - the Democrats have worked HARD to put workers out of work. Here in California this is the most anti-business state in the union. Let's see San Francisco pay blacks $10 million each for slavery reparations. San Francisco is already on the point of financial collapse.

[Tom Kunich]

The Stupid 4 LOVE the government until they are personally involved in an injustice.

[AMuzi]

On 5/31/2023 9:29 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:

> Only one out of 6 people are old enough for social security. Many of these people have private retirements and government workers have retirement funds that make SS piddling. So, on the whole SS is probably supported by 10 working people for every SS retiree. BUT and this is a big one - the Democrats have worked HARD to put workers out of work. Here in California this is the most anti-business state in the union. Let's see San Francisco pay blacks $10 million each for slavery reparations. San Francisco is already on the point of financial collapse.
>

About 130 million paying the tax out of about 350 million
USAians:
https://www.bls.gov/web/empsit/ceseeb1a.htm

Note there are many exemptions from payroll tax; Farm,
military, many government employees and there's a cap so the
(few) very wealthy earners stop paying after $147K in earnings.

The 'Private Non Farm Employment' number is as close as you
get to 'Who pays the payroll tax?'

[Tom Kunich]

$147,000 doesn't sound like a lot today, but it was a hell of a lot of money for anyone before Obama. This is when they started playing games with what inflation was. Now we are deep in a recession with Yellen printing money like it is paper towels and the Democrats proclaim that there isn't any inflation where the most stupid non-English speaking illegal can see it.

[pH]

On 2023-05-31, Andre Jute <fiul...@yahoo.com> wrote:
<snip>

Wow. I've had such a boring life. I like this story and especially the
blonde joke.

pH

[pH]

On 2023-05-31, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 30 May 2023 14:55:45 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
><cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Liebermann is young but very sick
>
> 75 years old is young? I'm honored and thank you for the compliment.
> As for being very sick, that might be true at various times. It's
> been 2 weeks since hiatal hernia surgery (05/15/2023). I was doing
> just fine until I did something stupid, which set my recovery back a
> few days. If I don't make any more stupid mistakes, I should be back
> to normal in about 10 days.
>
> A short 2 mile walk in the park last Friday:
><https://www.strava.com/activities/9145442368>
> No records were broken, but I didn't collapse from exhaustion.
>

Be patient and mindful, Jeff. We don't seem to bounce as we used to.

pH DWP

[funkma...@hotmail.com]

On Sunday, May 28, 2023 at 5:40:48 PM UTC-4, the shit stained troll defected:
> On Sunday, May 28, 2023 at 10:17:43 PM UTC+1, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > On 5/28/2023 4:46 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > .. the Golden Gate Bridge is only 6 years older than I am.
> >
> > :-) That took only two tries to get right! Congratulations!
> >
> > --
> > - Frank Krygowski
> >
> Do you think that just once in your life you could restrain your constant impulse to nastiness, Krygowski? That's two sickening, needling little eruptions of your viciousness -- in a thread celebrating a great engineer in bicycle space, his life and achievements. Show a little respect, eh? Or, if you can't manage the decency for respect, just shut up and stay out of the obituary thread.

Pity you don't show the same sensibility to kunich, who polluted one of the exceptionally few relevant discussions you've ever started with a political rants involving janet yellen, trump, the gold standard, and an unsolicited ad hom against jeff. Fuck-off, you useless hypocrite.

[funkma...@hotmail.com]

On Sunday, May 28, 2023 at 5:46:25 PM UTC-4, Tom Kunich wrote:

> On Sunday, May 28, 2023 at 2:40:48 PM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
> > On Sunday, May 28, 2023 at 10:17:43 PM UTC+1, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > > On 5/28/2023 4:46 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > > .. the Golden Gate Bridge is only 6 years older than I am.
> > >
> > > :-) That took only two tries to get right! Congratulations!
> > >
> > > --
> > > - Frank Krygowski
> > >
> > Do you think that just once in your life you could restrain your constant impulse to nastiness, Krygowski? That's two sickening, needling little eruptions of your viciousness -- in a thread celebrating a great engineer in bicycle space, his life and achievements. Show a little respect, eh? Or, if you can't manage the decency for respect, just shut up and stay out of the obituary thread.
> > >

> > Andre Jute
> > Now let us praise famous men. -- Ecclesiastes
> > >

> Unfortunately, Krygowski cannot have a REAL engineer cited without him getting a vicious inferiority complex which accounts for his reaction.

Unfortunately, tommy can't let any one in this forum post a strictly cycling-focused topis without going on one of his inane political rants and an ad hom attack against another member. Gee tommy, you forgot to mention covid and global warming. I'm sure the fucking hypocritical troll that started this discussion won't mind you polluting his thread with a global warming rant.

[funkma...@hotmail.com]

Once again, the spectacular success of thrice-read libraries on full display.

> He says he has a lot of bikes and at least raced at one time so he should have something more impressive stories.

I'm not one to provide unsolicited personal details. I _do_ have plenty of great cycling experiences to share, and do so when it's relevant.

> Wake up Flunky - what the hell have you been up to while I'm getting slower and slower?

Getting faster and faster. 2 KOMs on Todays ride (not bragging, you asked):

https://www.strava.com/activities/9175047826

[Frank Krygowski]

On 5/31/2023 3:24 PM, funkma...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
>
> I'm not one to provide unsolicited personal details. I _do_ have plenty of great cycling experiences to share, and do so when it's relevant.

+1.

I don't bother to correct the many inaccuracies Tom posts about my life,
my profession and my cycling. Anyone believing much of Tom's posting is
probably beyond help.

--
- Frank Krygowski

[Tom Kunich]

I doubt that your life was all that boring. My friend worked all of his life as a Safeway Checker and he has more stories than I do. Sometimes the most mundane jobs are the most fulfilling. Liebermann probably has hundreds which he could cite if he wasn't more interested in being an expert. Which he isn't.

[sms]

On 5/31/2023 8:02 AM, AMuzi wrote:
> On 5/31/2023 9:29 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:

<snip>

>>   Only one out of 6 people are old enough for social security. Many of
>> these people have private retirements and government workers have
>> retirement funds that make SS piddling. So, on the whole SS is
>> probably supported by 10 working people for every SS retiree. BUT and
>> this is a big one - the Democrats have worked HARD to put workers out
>> of work. Here in California this is the most anti-business state in
>> the union. Let's see San Francisco pay blacks $10 million each for
>> slavery reparations. San Francisco is already on the point of
>> financial collapse.
>>
>
> About 130 million paying the tax out of about 350 million USAians:
> https://www.bls.gov/web/empsit/ceseeb1a.htm
>
> Note there are many exemptions from payroll tax; Farm, military, many
> government employees and there's a cap so the (few) very wealthy earners
> stop paying after $147K in earnings.
>
> The 'Private Non Farm Employment' number is as close as you get to 'Who
> pays the payroll tax?'

Unemployment Rate When President Left Office (for Biden current rate)
Nixon (R): 5.5%
Ford (R): 7.5%
Carter (D): 7.5%
Reagan (R): 5.4%
Bush Sr (R): 7.3%
Clinton (D): 4.2%
Bush GW (R): 7.8%
Obama (D): 4.7%
Trump (R): 6.3%
Biden (D): 3.4%

In short:
Unemployment went down, often dramatically, under every Democratic
president except Carter (for which it stayed the same).
Unemployment went up, often dramatically, under every Republican
president except Reagan (dropped significantly) and Ford (stayed the same).

By every metric, the U.S. economy fares better under Democratic
presidents, be it unemployment, wages, home ownership, and stock market
performance.

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Wed, 31 May 2023 15:55:06 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>On 5/31/2023 3:24 PM, funkma...@hotmail.com wrote:
>> I'm not one to provide unsolicited personal details.

I provide such details on Tom's life and finances as needed. When Tom
stops writing lies and insinuations, I'll stop writing about his
personal details. I don't know why he wants readers of RBT to think
I'm young and dying. I've become tired of reading Tom's contrived
stories and lies. Maybe some "unsolicited personal details" will
inspire some honesty and accuracy.

>I don't bother to correct the many inaccuracies Tom posts about my life,
>my profession and my cycling. Anyone believing much of Tom's posting is
>probably beyond help.

I think Tom has successfully sabotaged whatever was left of his
reputation. Time permitting, I correct what I find amusing.

Here's Tom's original "library" statement:
06/07/2022
<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/QNPNSofg064/m/Xaamy15iBQAJ>
"I would warrant that I've read more than 20 times more books than you
have. I read out three public libraries, the military library and all
of the books I used to gain the knowledge to become an engineer."

Tom was in the USAF in about 1965. Even back then, books were good
for learning fundamentals, but were also a mediocre way of staying up
to date on current technology. If he claimed to have read
periodicals, trade journals or research reports, instead of books, I
might believe that he really was a glutton for useful knowledge. If
his amazing knowledge only came from books, he would likely be a
historian.

[Frank Krygowski]

On 5/31/2023 10:27 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>
> Here's Tom's original "library" statement:
> 06/07/2022
> <https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/QNPNSofg064/m/Xaamy15iBQAJ>
> "I would warrant that I've read more than 20 times more books than you
> have. I read out three public libraries, the military library and all
> of the books I used to gain the knowledge to become an engineer."
>
> Tom was in the USAF in about 1965. Even back then, books were good
> for learning fundamentals, but were also a mediocre way of staying up
> to date on current technology.

I'd say that merely reading books on engineering, as Tom claimed, is not
even a mediocre way of gaining knowledge to be an engineer - let alone
to stay up to date as technology changed.

Tom probably has no conception of this, but when attending an actual
school to actually learn engineering, reading is just a tiny part of the
education. Students are given thousands of tasks to accomplish,
everything from homework problems requiring a page or two of
calculations, to class projects and lab exercises requiring over ten
times as much work, to research projects taking weeks. Classes have
exams that must be passed. And most classes beyond the freshman level
require competence in the lower level subject matter; IOW, the
requirements become greater.

When I began my engineering major, one professor said "Take a look at
the students around you. Nine out of ten of them won't graduate with
this degree." It turned out he was right.

--
- Frank Krygowski

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Wed, 31 May 2023 22:56:20 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>On 5/31/2023 10:27 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>>
>> Here's Tom's original "library" statement:
>> 06/07/2022
>> <https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/QNPNSofg064/m/Xaamy15iBQAJ>
>> "I would warrant that I've read more than 20 times more books than you
>> have. I read out three public libraries, the military library and all
>> of the books I used to gain the knowledge to become an engineer."
>>
>> Tom was in the USAF in about 1965. Even back then, books were good
>> for learning fundamentals, but were also a mediocre way of staying up
>> to date on current technology.

>I'd say that merely reading books on engineering, as Tom claimed, is not
>even a mediocre way of gaining knowledge to be an engineer - let alone
>to stay up to date as technology changed.
>
>Tom probably has no conception of this, but when attending an actual
>school to actually learn engineering, reading is just a tiny part of the
>education.

I beg to differ somewhat. Prior to about 1960, the common term was
"reading for a degree in xxxxx" where xxxxx is something like
mechanical engineering, electrical engineering, aviation engineering,
etc. This was because many colleges taught general education and
basics in the first 3 years of a 4 year degree, and only specialized
in the desired engineering discipline in the last year of college.
There were minimal labs during the first 3 years and everything came
from a book or study guide. Teaching consisted of the instructor
providing a list of books that the student was expected to read. If
it was a library book, the queue for checking out the few copies in
the library could easily be several months. There was only one exam
at the end of the semester. If there were any questions during the
semester, the student was encouraged to as the teachers assistant. If
that was insufficient, they could make an appointment to meet with the
instructor (or professor). In addition to readings, students were
required to attend demonstrations, where the instructor, lab
assistant, and some "volunteers" demonstrated various experiments.
Student would sit in the lecture hall and take notes. I almost
attended such a college (UCLA) but rapidly transferred to a different
college (Cal Poly Pomona) when I discovered that everything was theory
and I would only get a few classes in electronics. Cal Poly Pomona
was the exact opposite (Learn by Doing) where there were electronics
classes and labs during all 4 years.

>Students are given thousands of tasks to accomplish,
>everything from homework problems requiring a page or two of
>calculations, to class projects and lab exercises requiring over ten
>times as much work, to research projects taking weeks. Classes have
>exams that must be passed. And most classes beyond the freshman level
>require competence in the lower level subject matter; IOW, the
>requirements become greater.

The assigned reading, homework and projects tended to take far more
time that was available. Instructors had the irritating habit of
assuming that the only thing the student should be doing while awake
was working on the instructors assignment. This was obvious from the
start resulting students determining what was important and what could
be ignored. Only the very best students and fastest readers were able
to complete all the reading assignments. Also, end of semester or
quarter short-term cramming was epidemic. Out of 6 years in college,
I worked at part time jobs for 5 of those years, in order to pay my
tuition and expenses. I applied what I learned in school to those
jobs which helps explain why I was fired by only one employer. If I
had to rely totally on book learning, I would not have done well at
any job.

I had a good example of learning by the book versus learn by doing.
Our physics teacher hired some students to help lay floor tiles in his
kitchen. I wasn't doing well in his class, so I volunteered in the
hope that it would improve my grade. It didn't. When we arrived, we
soon discovered that he had purchased several extra boxes of floor
tiles thanks to faulty calculations. This was someone who lived in a
world of complex equations, yet he couldn't do the comparatively
simple arithmetic needed to calculate the number of 1ft x 1ft floor
tiles required.

>When I began my engineering major, one professor said "Take a look at
>the students around you. Nine out of ten of them won't graduate with
>this degree." It turned out he was right.

I went to college during the Vietnam War era. The colleges were at
full capacity with student who wanted to get a student deferment (2S).
Many of these undergrad students weren't really qualified and would
eventually drop out. To hasten the process, the college
administration would do almost anything within its authority to make
room for other students who might have a better chance at obtaining a
diploma. The result was a temporary tendency for students to take
getting an education rather seriously.

I heard "Look to your left and look to your right. One of them won't
be here next semester (or quarter)". Repeated at once per calendar
year for 4 or 6 years, that's a chance of 1 in 16 to 1 in 64 of
graduating with a diploma. If repeated every semester or quarter, the
odds are much lower. Most students took 5 or 6 years to graduate
because they wanted to extend their student deferments.

During my rather checkered career, I met many technicians who were
very competent with hardware. However, most were held back because
they lacked an understanding of the fundamentals and concepts that
could best be learned from a book. Many went back to school or took
correspondence courses (usually under the GI Bill) to learn these and
eventually obtained a degree. I only know one person who spent
endless hours reading library books and eventually became an engineer.
I soon discovered there were large gaps and holes in his self
education, where something was lacking because some author chose to
omit the topic from his book. Some of these omissions were rather
important.

[Catrike Rider]

Books are where the information is. Some people need a teacher to
exemplify the information. For others, the teacher is an impairment to
the learning process by slowing it down.

[John B.]

On Wed, 31 May 2023 19:27:44 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>
wrote:

The "military library" that he mentions would include all the
"Technical Manuals" on every airplane in the current Air force
inventory, with instruction on how to disassemble or assemble it, the
torque value for every fastener, how to operate or use the device,
Even photos and drawings of what it looks like. Right down to what
button to push the start the thing, to a part number for every nut,
bolt and washer on the thing.

Millions, of separate manuals.... and our boy read them all?
--
Cheers,

John B.

[funkma...@hotmail.com]

On Wednesday, May 31, 2023 at 10:27:59 PM UTC-4, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Wed, 31 May 2023 15:55:06 -0400, Frank Krygowski
> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
> >On 5/31/2023 3:24 PM, funkma...@hotmail.com wrote:
> >> I'm not one to provide unsolicited personal details.
> I provide such details on Tom's life and finances as needed. When Tom
> stops writing lies and insinuations, I'll stop writing about his
> personal details. I don't know why he wants readers of RBT to think
> I'm young and dying. I've become tired of reading Tom's contrived
> stories and lies. Maybe some "unsolicited personal details" will
> inspire some honesty and accuracy.

What would give you that impression? You've been doing it for years, has it had any effect whatsoever? If anything, it only triggers him to make the lies more elaborate and grandiose. Now all of a sudden he's become a "senior software developer for Sun Microsystems", he just forgot about it. Of course, there's no mention of that on his resume, he instead chose to list his work installing telephones.

[Tom Kunich]

I think that you have described Krygowski perfectly which is why he is such a vile creature. While he was interfering with real education, I was performing it. He knows that and quite well understands it so he has no other answer than to deny that a large part of the advancement in medical electronics was in my hands.

[Frank Krygowski]

On 6/1/2023 4:11 AM, John B. wrote:
> On Wed, 31 May 2023 19:27:44 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Tom was in the USAF in about 1965. Even back then, books were good
>> for learning fundamentals, but were also a mediocre way of staying up

>> to date on current technology. ...

>
> The "military library" that he mentions would include all the
> "Technical Manuals" on every airplane in the current Air force
> inventory, with instruction on how to disassemble or assemble it, the
> torque value for every fastener, how to operate or use the device,
> Even photos and drawings of what it looks like. Right down to what
> button to push the start the thing, to a part number for every nut,
> bolt and washer on the thing.

I managed to avoid the military. But that description reminds me of the
1970s book "How to Keep Your Volkswagen Alive" which I owned and used.
It really did have enough detail that a mechanical novice could repair
almost anything on a VW, down to an engine rebuild.

But that's technician work, not engineering. Designing even a fairly
simple mechanical linkage requires a lot more than just reading a
chapter in a book. Designing something like a power transmission shaft
with multiple lateral loads requires some depth of knowledge.

> Millions, of separate manuals.... and our boy read them all?

That was before he lectured Janet Yellen on economics, proved thousands
of climate scientists wrong, discovered cures for AIDS, taught theology
to Pope Francis, etc.

--
- Frank Krygowski

[funkma...@hotmail.com]

On Thursday, June 1, 2023 at 10:37:37 AM UTC-4, Tom Kunich wrote:

> a large part of the advancement in medical electronics was in my hands.

Dear gawd....<eyeroll, headshake, sigh>

[John B.]

On Thu, 1 Jun 2023 07:37:34 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:

But, but, but! Even Fearless Frankie hasn't told lies about slavery in
Thailand.

As for advances in medicine? Who gives a damn. My Housekeeper wants to
know about the slaves as she has now expanded her demands to three.
One inside the house, one outside the house and one as a replacement
on those "bad days" that the girls seem to have from month to month.


--
Cheers,

John B.

[Radey Shouman]

Frank Krygowski <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> writes:

> On 5/31/2023 10:27 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>> Here's Tom's original "library" statement:
>> 06/07/2022
>> <https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/QNPNSofg064/m/Xaamy15iBQAJ>
>> "I would warrant that I've read more than 20 times more books than you
>> have. I read out three public libraries, the military library and all
>> of the books I used to gain the knowledge to become an engineer."
>> Tom was in the USAF in about 1965. Even back then, books were good
>> for learning fundamentals, but were also a mediocre way of staying up
>> to date on current technology.
>
> I'd say that merely reading books on engineering, as Tom claimed, is
> not even a mediocre way of gaining knowledge to be an engineer - let
> alone to stay up to date as technology changed.
>
> Tom probably has no conception of this, but when attending an actual
> school to actually learn engineering, reading is just a tiny part of
> the education. Students are given thousands of tasks to accomplish,
> everything from homework problems requiring a page or two of
> calculations, to class projects and lab exercises requiring over ten
> times as much work, to research projects taking weeks. Classes have
> exams that must be passed. And most classes beyond the freshman level
> require competence in the lower level subject matter; IOW, the
> requirements become greater.

I fear you give your profession a bit more credit than it deserves. No
one sane trusts a fresh engineering graduate to do anything right unless
they have significant non-school experience. School projects are over
when the grades are passed out, real world projects haunt you until you
quit. Work vs school is a completely different mindset.

[John B.]

It must have been a pretty poor school as MIT, for example, states
that 95.07 the male and 97.49 of the female engineering students
graduate. In fact the worst listed, The University of Texas at Austin,
graduates 85.15 and 89.9 percent.
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Frank Krygowski]

It's certainly true that engineers learn a lot on the job, often from
more experienced engineers. But a person without the background
education would not be likely to benefit from those engineers' guidance.
And I've had graduates who brought in knowledge (for example, in finite
element analysis) that none of the older engineers had.

One anecdote: I had a man and woman in my program who married during
their time in school. In the major workcell project in my senior level
Robotics class, they were on the same four person project team. This
project took half the term and lots of overtime to, starting from
scratch, design, build and program a tabletop workcell to do a sort of
material handling and processing operation. It involved doing the entire
design, machining certain parts, controlling pneumatic valves and
actuators, choosing and interfacing sensors, programming a PLC,
interfacing it and the sensors with the robot controller, etc. It also
included documenting the entire process and the final outcome.

A couple years after this man and woman graduated, the woman returned to
visit me down in the Robotics lab, and to introduce her new little son.
I asked how her husband was doing, and she said he was doing great! The
company he worked for had been trying to implement a robot for a certain
project, but after months of effort, the engineer in charge couldn't
handle it and gave up. As she related, he told the management "This is
impossible!" and quit.

The head engineer had noticed the Robotics course on her husband's
transcript and asked if he could take a look at the project. That day he
returned home and told his wife "It's exactly what we did in Krygowski's
lab!"

She said he completed the project with little trouble. Of course, that
wasn't the only project at which he'd succeeded. She said he was in line
for a significant promotion.

--
- Frank Krygowski

[Catrike Rider]

Why does Krygowski believe that fabricating an anecdote proves his
point?

[John B.]

A very pleasant story.

But I would comment that the company I worked for in Indonesia was
probably the first company, post WW II, to do pioneering oil
exploration in the jungles of the Indonesian portion of West Irian (I
think is the current name for it) and I can't even begin to count the
times that an oil company would call us in and ask us if we thought we
could do a job, "because our engineers can't figure out how to do it".
And, yes, we could do it.
I might add that our most successful "Project Manager" was a chap
named "Herb Anderson"(dead now) who to my knowledge didn't have a 8th
grade education, as he had told me that he was working as a bulldozer
operator when he was 14 years old. I might add that he was worth
several million dollars when he died.
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Catrike Rider]

On Fri, 02 Jun 2023 16:52:00 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>
wrote:

Acquiring an education is not, itself, an accomplishment. Anybody can
get one via books, trial and error, observation, schooling, etc.

It's the productive things that people do with their education that
makes the worlds go round, either their own personal "world," or "The
World."

[John B.]

On Fri, 02 Jun 2023 06:29:12 -0400, Catrike Rider

Well, "education" can be termed, "activities that impart knowledge or
skill". I read somewhere, for example, that a combat soldier's chances
of surviving in combat increase by a very large factor with his first
day in combat.

--
Cheers,

John B.

[Catrike Rider]

On Fri, 02 Jun 2023 18:07:34 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>

...and a two-wheel bicycist might want to wear special protection
while learning how to ride with "clipless" shoes and pedals. Of
course, some people never do learn how to do that.

[John B.]

On Fri, 02 Jun 2023 07:22:55 -0400, Catrike Rider

Well, the daughter of my neighbor... I think is in the first grade
this year... has had the training wheels off her bike for a couple of
months now :-)

And my neighbor on the other side, a German bloke, rides almost daily
for exercise... in sandals... what you might call "flip-flops" :-)

But on another subject, and not to be judgmental, what got you started
on a three wheeler? Rather then a 2 wheeler?
--
Cheers,

John B.