German Study on Masks

[Tom Kunich]

One easy method for pregnant women to kill their babies and themselves.

https://www.city-journal.org/article/the-harm-caused-by-masks

[danny burstein]

In <d0cf43bc-662c-484a...@googlegroups.com> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> writes:

>One easy method for pregnant women to kill their babies and themselves.

>https://www.city-journal.org/article/the-harm-caused-by-masks

First, of course, you're posting off topic itshay here,
but that being said:

You know, we'd expect garbage posts like that from City Journal,
being a patsy for the Crow family money, but we'd have hoped that
a usenet poster would know better.

Hint: That study was such a big piece of junk it was laughed
at, and then retracted.

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpubh.2023.1221666/full



--
_____________________________________________________
Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key
dan...@panix.com
[to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]

[Tom Kunich]

On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 3:49:14 PM UTC-7, danny burstein wrote:
> In <d0cf43bc-662c-484a...@googlegroups.com> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> writes:
>
> >One easy method for pregnant women to kill their babies and themselves.
>
> >https://www.city-journal.org/article/the-harm-caused-by-masks
> First, of course, you're posting off topic itshay here,
> but that being said:
>
> You know, we'd expect garbage posts like that from City Journal,
> being a patsy for the Crow family money, but we'd have hoped that
> a usenet poster would know better.
>
> Hint: That study was such a big piece of junk it was laughed
> at, and then retracted.
>
> https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpubh.2023.1221666/full

1, Masks started being used in about 1888 I believe. They were thoroughly studied in hospital settings starting with the flu pandemic of 1918 and showed NO EFFICACY WHATSOEVER. 2. Large scale modern studies in hospital settings showed that they showed NO EFFECT in protecting either wearer or patient from viral illnesses and only a slight improvement in bacterial illnesses by keeping patients from being coughed or sneezed directly into open wounds being treated. There was no statistical difference in hospital personnel wearing and not wearing masks. 3. https://www.researchsquare.com/article/rs-124394/v2 is another large study of mask effects.

I can absolutely guarantee you that wearing an N95 mask by ANYONE for more than an hour will absolutely result in 10 or more times the normal background CO2 levels inside of the mask. Surgeons often change a mask several times in long operations because CO2 build-up due to mucus in the breath blocks the breathing holes causing shaking hands and eyesight problems. Because of this many surgeons have taken to wearing a clear plastic hood and no mask at all.

If you wish to wear a mask be my guest. The commonly used cloth or paper masks don't actually do anything but they may make you feel socially acceptable. As for "laughable" - exactly what isn't laughable about a 300 nanometer virus being expected to be blocked by an N95 mask with breathing pores 200 times the size of the virus? They blow right through them like dust through a cyclone fence.

As for the idea of electrostatic attraction - there isn't any known electrostatic charge on a corona virus and because there are literally billions of viruses in the breath of an infected person, it would overcome any counter charge on a mask in seconds and then like charges repel.

[danny burstein]

In <35782229-4447-4089...@googlegroups.com> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> writes:

[snip of more denialist, delusional, crap garbage]

Hey, TK, you're just being another sheep in the denialist CULT.

Tell you what I'll give you a chance to show your colleagues,
in the words of the late Robert "Napolean Solo" Vaughn,
that You Mean Business.

Just say the word and I'll spot you a one way (that's all you'll need)
ticket from anywhere in the lower 48 to the Koresh compound in Waco, TX.

You know, the city your False Messiah held that rally in earier
this year.

Or you know what? If you prefer I'll spot you the one way
(ditto...) ticket to Rancho Sante Fe. But the Nike sneakers
are on your dime.

Afraid that Jonestown or Kenya are too high for my budget.

So what's your decision? Will you continue to be yet
another nameless member of the rabble or will you Follow
Your Destiny?

Pathetic, delusional, sad, and probably cowardly.

[John B.]

On Sat, 20 May 2023 17:42:45 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:

But Tommy, there have been study after study made that showed the
wearing masks did reduce the occurrence of Covid -19. Just a quick
look came up with
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9017682/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8499874/
https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2021/09/surgical-masks-covid-19.html
https://egc.yale.edu/largest-study-masks-and-covid-19-demonstrates-their-effectiveness-real-world

And even closer to home,
Thailand where masks were mandated had a Covid infection rate of
67,587 infections per 1 million population (6%) while California had
an infection rate of 310,378 per 1M (31%), some 5 times higher then
Thailand. The death rate was Thailand - 485/1/M (0.04%) and in
California - 2601/ 1M (0.26%)

So the reality is that both studies and actual documented numbers of
infections, 5 times lower, and deaths 5.4 times lower, show that masks
do work.

And I do understand that these figures do not fit your preconceived
notions so just keep bellowing your BS and all the fools will be
flocking to your door.

While normal intelligent folks will simply laugh at your fantasies.
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Tom Kunich]

So now it comes out that you know absolutely nothing about science or technology and this is nothing but a stupid political comment from a Democrat who like all Democrats these days would support their party if they were rounding up Jews and sending them off to the ovens. Would even claim that they deserved it. Have fun in your private hell after the coming election where Fraud will again be so low that the real winner will be proclaimed.

[danny burstein]

In <f765feab-f644-42d0...@googlegroups.com> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> writes:

[snip]

>So now it comes out that you know absolutely nothing about science or techn=

[snip of more delusional garbage]

Hey, Tom, in addition to the groaning from generations of
your teachers, there's more and more laughter showing up.

Eyup. We used to have pity for you. Now it's just laughter.

But you could change our minds. Just take me up on that offer
of a one way ticket to Waco, or Rancho Sante Fe.

[Tom Kunich]

The world is full of silly little children who put politics before knowledge. I fired people with PhD's because they couldn't think but only repeat your delusional rantings.

[AMuzi]

On 5/21/2023 11:30 AM, danny burstein wrote:00

> In <f765feab-f644-42d0...@googlegroups.com> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> writes:
>
> [snip]
>
>> So now it comes out that you know absolutely nothing about science or techn=
>
> [snip of more delusional garbage]
>
> Hey, Tom, in addition to the groaning from generations of
> your teachers, there's more and more laughter showing up.
>
> Eyup. We used to have pity for you. Now it's just laughter.
>
> But you could change our minds. Just take me up on that offer
> of a one way ticket to Waco, or Rancho Sante Fe.
>
>
>

hmmm.
Waco is nice, especially now that Janet Reno is dead.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[danny burstein]

In <e5e1dd3b-2e59-4490...@googlegroups.com> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> writes:

[snip of more ramblings]

To which those of us in the reality based universe go

"hahahahahah"

[Tom Kunich]

On Sunday, May 21, 2023 at 11:18:16 AM UTC-7, danny burstein wrote:
> In <e5e1dd3b-2e59-4490...@googlegroups.com> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> writes:
>
> [snip of more ramblings]
>
> To which those of us in the reality based universe go
>
> "hahahahahah"

Tell us how old you are. From your stupid meanderings you're too young to even know what Waco has to do with anything. It is a city in Texas and you seem to want it to represent something else. Likewise Rancho Santa Fe is an extremely expensive community in San Diego that is famous for the number of billionaires living there. The aerospace industry used to be centered there until the Democrats took over California and turned a $100 Billion budget surplus into, now, a $31 Billion deficit and wanted businesses to pay their bills. You are demonstrating that you know nothing about what you're talking about and are nothing more than another worthless petty little communist fool. I would tell you to kiss my ass but it is plain that you would enjoy it.

Tell me again that masks saved your life. I want to put that claim on a local talk show.

[danny burstein]

In <32a5f14f-4977-48d0...@googlegroups.com> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> writes:

>Tell us how old you are.

[snip of even more umbdassy garbage]

Hahahahahah.

[Tom Kunich]

Adults don't write "Hahahahahah" or be so fearful that they may be identified by other that they encode their address. I hate to break your egotistical mind but no one gives a shit who you are, where you're from, or any other false knowledge that you believe is so precious.

[danny burstein]

In <57b179d8-849c-4018...@googlegroups.com> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> writes:

>Adults don't write "Hahahahahah"

[snip of more umbdassy garbage.]

Hey, when are you going to accept my offer of that one way
ticket to Waco, or optionally, Rancho Sante Fe?

Pathetic coward

>or be so fearful that they may be identifi=

>ed by other that they encode their address.

Ok, everyone else out there who's grounded
in reality. Let's have a huge and solid
belly laugh at "Tom" here...

[John B.]

On Sun, 21 May 2023 14:20:33 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:

But Tommy, according to Brandt's posts you used to post anonymously.
Why do you now condemn others for doing what you once did yourself?
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Tom Kunich]

Gee, no one is "belly laughing". Why do you suppose that is? Because some 12 year old with daddy's laptop is making an elaborate fool out of himself?

Why don't you quote all of the CDC funded studies that say that MASKS WORK WITHOUT A DOUBT! They are all over google after all. Or perhaps unlike the stupid 4 here you don't know how to use Google? Of course, these studies made three mistakes - they estimated the SARS-Cov-2 virus to be about 100th as contagious as it is and 2. They used computer models and extremely poor data to model the efficacy of masks rather than simply looking at the actual speed of the spread. And they were of the opinion that the virus spread via mucus and not simply as individual virus particles. This means modeling using masks in this manner give entirely incorrect results.

But hey, your 6th grade teacher told you they work.

[John B.]

On Mon, 22 May 2023 16:40:26 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:

But Tommy, I posted a reference to a number of studies (was it 4 or
5?) that demonstrated that masks did, in fact, reduce infection rates.
And, pointed out that Thailand - where masks were the law required the
universal wearing of masks - in spite of having about twice the
population (actually 1.77 times) of California had 4,738,988 cases of
the Covid while California had 12,263,722 (2.5 times as many) cases
and While Thailand had 34,053 deaths from the disease California had
102,769 (3 times as many) deaths.

The rate per 1 million population was
Thailand cases - 67,624/1 M, Calif - 310,378/ 1 M (4.5 times greater)
Thailand deaths - 486/1 M, Calif - 2601/ M (5.3 times greater)

--
Cheers,

John B.

[funkma...@hotmail.com]

On Sunday, May 21, 2023 at 1:55:29 PM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
> On 5/21/2023 11:30 AM, danny burstein wrote:00
> > In <f765feab-f644-42d0...@googlegroups.com> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> writes:
> >
> > [snip]
> >
> >> So now it comes out that you know absolutely nothing about science or techn=
> >
> > [snip of more delusional garbage]
> >
> > Hey, Tom, in addition to the groaning from generations of
> > your teachers, there's more and more laughter showing up.
> >
> > Eyup. We used to have pity for you. Now it's just laughter.
> >
> > But you could change our minds. Just take me up on that offer
> > of a one way ticket to Waco, or Rancho Sante Fe.
> >
> >
> >
> hmmm.
> Waco is nice, especially now that Janet Reno is dead.
>

wow...that was an asshole comment. Quite a bit beneath the level of decorum I'd expect from you, Andrew - more along the lines of a kunich response.

[funkma...@hotmail.com]

On Monday, May 22, 2023 at 7:40:28 PM UTC-4, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Sunday, May 21, 2023 at 2:25:08 PM UTC-7, danny burstein wrote:
> > In <57b179d8-849c-4018...@googlegroups.com> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> writes:
> >
> > >Adults don't write "Hahahahahah"
> > [snip of more umbdassy garbage.]
> >
> > Hey, when are you going to accept my offer of that one way
> > ticket to Waco, or optionally, Rancho Sante Fe?
> >
> > Pathetic coward
> >
> > >or be so fearful that they may be identifi=
> > >ed by other that they encode their address.
> > Ok, everyone else out there who's grounded
> > in reality. Let's have a huge and solid
> > belly laugh at "Tom" here...
> > --
> > _____________________________________________________
> > Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key
> > dan...@panix.com
> > [to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]
> Gee, no one is "belly laughing".

We are tommy, and have been for years.

[AMuzi]

On 5/31/2023 9:15 AM, funkma...@hotmail.com wrote:

I did not bring up Waco but Ms Reno taught us at Waco that
you can kill a lot more people with incendiary mortars than
with a rifle. Some feel that's an inappropriate tool for
policy but it did solve the Administration's problem.

[Tom Kunich]

The anti-mask and mass murder comments came from the little child Burstein. He is perfectly free to wear a mask if he likes but if he or his moronic government try to make me wear a mask ever again I will snap his twig-like neck of his tranny body. I am done with this country being run by Pharmaceutical companies when none of the recent drugs in widespread use work at all. Burstein can suck a dick and worship Fauci if he wishes but his comments would leave him in an emergency hospital if he said them to my face. It has reached a point where woke is knocked out.

[funkma...@hotmail.com]

Hey! It's Tommy the Tough Guy!

[Tom Kunich]

Stupid, you look for articles that prove your point no matter how flawed they are. You don't even know they are flawed because you don't know the first fucking thing about it. Here is the proof that masks don't work but you don't even know how to understand this. Why don't you tell us that there's no slavery in Thailand?

https://www.cochranelibrary.com/cdsr/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD006207.pub6/full

[funkma...@hotmail.com]

As usual, tommy doesn't bother to read the links he posts:

"Authors' conclusions
The high risk of bias in the trials, variation in outcome measurement, and relatively low adherence with the interventions during the studies hampers drawing firm conclusions."
"There is uncertainty about the effects of face masks. The low to moderate certainty of evidence means our confidence in the effect estimate is limited, and that the true effect may be different from the observed estimate of the effect."

[Frank Krygowski]

In Tom's defense, those were a lot of really big words. He wouldn't find
those easy to read.

--
- Frank Krygowski

[John B.]

On Fri, 2 Jun 2023 13:12:50 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:

Well, tell us why California had so many more cases of the Virus then
Thailand, even though Thailand is about twice the size, population
wise?

You can jump up and down, wave your arms and scream but reality is
that the U.S. had the highest level of Covid in the world... why?
--
Cheers,

John B.

[John B.]

On Fri, 2 Jun 2023 13:27:35 -0700 (PDT), "funkma...@hotmail.com"
<funkma...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>On Friday, June 2, 2023 at 4:12:52?PM UTC-4, Tom Kunich wrote:

I'm very much addicted to the "Well, did it work" evaluation of
solutions and for all Tommy's screaming and hollering the fact remains
that Covid infection and deaths in the U.S. was far higher then in
countries where masks were mandated by law. Thailand has about twice
the population of California and 1/5th the deaths, per 1M population.
One can only speculate "Why".
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Tom Kunich]

What do you know about anything? I realize that you're pretending that Californians didn't wear masks but they were mandatory even going to the grocery store. The Dentist STILL makes me fill out a form that I don't have a fever, cough, etc. and I have to wait out in my car until it is time for my appointment, I have to wear a mask into the building and am taken to the office where the Dentist then allows me to take off my mask and looks directly into my mouth while she wears a mask that is completely useless.

I wonder exactly what passes for a mind in your case. Time after time you make blatantly false statements that you have to know are false because you have google which you believe makes you a fucking genius. Yesterday my investments made me over $20,000. What about yours?

[Tom Kunich]

Since you don't believe actual medical studies if would never occur to you that the US also had one of the highest rates of vaccination outside of Israel who also had large numbers of deaths. It would never in a million years occur to you that higher rates of vaccinations were connected to higher rates of deaths., And that deaths without covid but testing positive for the spike protein (caused by vaccination) are continuing to rise while people who were not vaccinated are not getting excess deaths.

Oh, wait, you're too stupid to know what that means.

[John B.]

On Sat, 3 Jun 2023 06:49:53 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:

Tell me more about the "blatantly false"? Do you have any evidence of
that (well other then your imagination) or is it just a new word you
have discovered.

So you made $20,000 yesterday? So what?
From your own posts you lost your arse during the Obama administration
when my investments were growing. My current gold investment - actual
metal - has grown over 150% and I've got sufficient funds to literally
"do as I damned please for the rest of my life".
--
Cheers,

John B.

[John B.]

On Sat, 3 Jun 2023 06:55:15 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:

Gee Tommy,, you start out with either a lie or evidence of your
stupidity

"the US also had one of the highest rates of vaccination outside of
Israel"

Lets see...

(1) Neither the U.S. or Israel is on the list of the 15 countries with
the highest percent of population vaccinated. The "low ball" country,
last in line is, Bangladesh with 88.41% vaccinated.
(2) The U.S. is listed as 80% with at least one shot. Israel 74%.

As for your
"it would never in a million years occur to you that higher rates of

vaccinations were connected to higher rates of deaths."

I guess that I'll just have to say "prove it!" The world percent of
number vaccinated is
"As of 7 May 2023, 13.4 billion COVID-19 vaccine doses have been
administered worldwide, with 67.9 percent of the global population
having received at least one dose."

That is some 5,456,982,209 that have received the vaccine. Now tell us
how many have died of the vaccine. Or better yet, PROVE how many have
died of the vaccine.

Your problem is, Tommy, you confuse a very vivid imagination with the
truth. Unfortunately as Harry Belafonte said in a song, "It Ain't
Necessarily So"

--
Cheers,

John B.

[Bob F]

On 5/20/2023 3:08 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> One easy method for pregnant women to kill their babies and themselves.
>
> https://www.city-journal.org/article/the-harm-caused-by-masks

And then, there is reality.

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2023/apr/28/instagram-posts/study-does-not-show-that-covid-19-mask-wearing-rai/

"Experts told us the article is flawed.

Dr. Amesh Adalja, a senior scholar at the Johns Hopkins Center for
Health Security, said the review article relied partly on studies of
animals that are chronically exposed to carbon dioxide.

Those studies are not applicable to humans intermittently wearing face
masks, he said.

Jeremy Howard, a scientist at the University of San Francisco, said the
review article overestimates by 60 times the amount of carbon dioxide
people breathe when wearing masks.

When humans breathe, they inhale about 6 liters of air, but because a
mask has 0.1 liters of space, 1/60th of the air breathed while wearing a
mask comes from inside the mask, he said."

[John B.]

There is an old saying that "the proof of the pudding is in the
eating", or the outcome determines whether it was done right or wrong.

I believe that a number of countries may still mandate or encourage
the wearing of masks and at least Thailand and Singapore although
masks are no longer required by law a great many still wear them.
https://efe.com/en/health/2023-04-01/land-of-covered-smiles-thais-cling-to-masks-long-after-covid-19-mandate/
https://www.scmp.com/news/asia/southeast-asia/article/3210011/singapore-commuters-still-wear-masks-public-transport-despite-rules-dropped

And yet, for all the running about, wringing of hands and screaming
about the dangers of wearing masks, noticeable in the U.S., no
abnormal number of deaths have been recorded.

I might add that I asked my Cardiologist whether wearing masks had any
effect on the usual Rainy Season colds and flu. He replied, "there
haven't been any."
--
Cheers,

John B.

[funkma...@hotmail.com]

> mask comes from inside the mask, he said.", but because a

> mask has 0.1 liters of space, 1/60th of the air breathed while wearing a
> mask comes from inside the mask, he said."

The quote "When humans breathe, they inhale about 6 liters of air" seemed a bit strange to me.

It's true that the volume in the lungs is about 6 liters, but one will only come close to that during maximal efforts. During normal respiration the 'Tidal Volume' is closer to 500 mL (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tidal_volume).

I'll also note that an "empty" mask might have a volume of 100 mL, but when placed on a face that free volume decreases to only a few mL.

In reality it's probably less than 1/60th, but the numbers from Dr. Howard don't seem to be the correct reference points. But, I'm not a doctor, I could be wrong.

I've had asthma incidents in the past and have taken quite a few courses of antihistamine and steroid therapy with spirometer tests as reference points over the years.

That said, tom is well-known here for spouting unsupportable claims. He's been shown time and time again that his claims about the ineffectiveness of masks are wrong, he just keeps repeating in some bizarre hope that it will become true.

[John B.]

On Wed, 7 Jun 2023 03:16:14 -0700 (PDT), "funkma...@hotmail.com"
<funkma...@hotmail.com> wrote:

I read the article and his numbers don't make any sense. The purpose
of the mask is to filter the air inhaled, or exhaled. Thus the volume
of the mask itself is immaterial.

--
Cheers,

John B.

[Frank Krygowski]

On 6/6/2023 11:23 PM, Bob F wrote:
> On 5/20/2023 3:08 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> One easy method for pregnant women to kill their babies and themselves.
>>
>> https://www.city-journal.org/article/the-harm-caused-by-masks
>
> And then, there is reality.
>
> https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2023/apr/28/instagram-posts/study-does-not-show-that-covid-19-mask-wearing-rai/

"Reality has a well known liberal bias." - Stephen Colbert

--
- Frank Krygowski

[Catrike Rider]

"Liberalism is the transformation of man into cattle"
- Friedrich Nietzsche

[Tom Kunich]

Bob, don't make the mistakes of the Stupid 4. Because you don't realize that a study HAS to disclaim itself as insufficient evidence doesn't mean that the study is in any way flawed. There are shockingly few studies that don't have such phrases in them. Do you expect someone using a study for his doctoral thesis to claim all knowledge before a board of egotistical professors?

[Tom Kunich]

It is the trading of equality for equity. No matter what the Woke morons say, people are NOT equal in intelligence or abilities. In many cases, people with quite low intelligence can show substantial abilities by choosing a career in something that fits his actual intelligence. Journalists are a good example of this - it takes little knowledge to write the fiction that passes for news these days and yet these people make millions playing to the ignorance of the masses.

[AMuzi]

...as reported by major media outlets.

[funkma...@hotmail.com]

They are certainly making a fortune off of you...

[Tom Kunich]

I received the check from the phony purchaser of my Fondriest. I contacted the bank listed on the check and guess what? It was an AI that was unable to look anything up. It was completely incapable of even understanding how to find if a particular check was issued by them. This is the argument that is being made for AI.

So then I took it to my bank and in only 5 minutes determined that it was counterfeit. This is actual real people vs. AI just like I said. While I can easily see Flunky being threatened by AI since he has none of the skills that a real engineer would have (no understanding of economics and inability to understand programming) as well as a poor use of the English language, no one with any real skills would be threatened.

[Frank Krygowski]

On 6/7/2023 12:14 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> On 6/7/2023 10:30 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On 6/6/2023 11:23 PM, Bob F wrote:
>>> On 5/20/2023 3:08 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>> One easy method for pregnant women to kill their babies
>>>> and themselves.
>>>>
>>>> https://www.city-journal.org/article/the-harm-caused-by-masks
>>>>
>>>
>>> And then, there is reality.
>>>
>>> https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2023/apr/28/instagram-posts/study-does-not-show-that-covid-19-mask-wearing-rai/
>>>
>>
>> "Reality has a well known liberal bias." - Stephen Colbert
>>
> ...as reported by major media outlets.

We've got to get the media to stop reporting on reality! :-)

--
- Frank Krygowski

[funkma...@hotmail.com]

On Wednesday, June 7, 2023 at 2:33:14 PM UTC-4, Tom Kunich wrote:
>
> I received the check from the phony purchaser of my Fondriest. I contacted the bank listed on the check and guess what? It was an AI that was unable to look anything up. It was completely incapable of even understanding how to find if a particular check was issued by them.

Yes, I'm sure it was an AI interface. Let me guess, it was a little window that popped up and asked "how may I help you"? Sorry sparky, that ain't AI, it's a basic chatbot. It's more likely you garbled some information, then got pissed off when you didn't get the answer you wanted right away.

> This is the argument that is being made for AI.

No, it isn't. The argument being made for AI is vastly more complex
https://www.forbes.com/sites/qai/2022/12/01/the-pros-and-cons-of-artificial-intelligence/?sh=12e3dd624703

>
> So then I took it to my bank and in only 5 minutes determined that it was counterfeit. This is actual real people vs. AI just like I said.

It's a weak argument. Much like your weak intellect.

> While I can easily see Flunky being threatened by AI

That's a fantasy of your own making

> since he has none of the skills that a real engineer would have

Tell us again how VHDL is just a college exercise, and how PWM is used to test cables, and how calculating speed on a bike computer is a complicated algorithm?

> (no understanding of economics

That's funny coming from someone who still believes there was no recession before obama took office. Tell us again how you debated economics with Janet Yellen?

> and inability to understand programming)

No matter how many times you tell that lie, it will never become true

> as well as a poor use of the English language

Ah, you mean like the articulate polymath that wrote " I was always in the top 10% of English or English composition. If your attention wandered whoa be to you." ?

> no one with any real skills would be threatened.

Which explains why you could never keep a job for more than a few months. Besides that....

https://www.infoworld.com/article/3691892/ai-and-the-future-of-software-development.html
"With GitHub Copilot, more than 1.2 million developers already rely on artificial intelligence to generate code on their behalf, saving them time (and their companies money)."

[AMuzi]

On 6/7/2023 1:33 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:

> On Wednesday, June 7, 2023 at 9:14:56 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 6/7/2023 10:30 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>> On 6/6/2023 11:23 PM, Bob F wrote:
>>>> On 5/20/2023 3:08 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>> One easy method for pregnant women to kill their babies
>>>>> and themselves.
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.city-journal.org/article/the-harm-caused-by-masks
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> And then, there is reality.
>>>>
>>>> https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2023/apr/28/instagram-posts/study-does-not-show-that-covid-19-mask-wearing-rai/
>>>>
>>>
>>> "Reality has a well known liberal bias." - Stephen Colbert
>>>
>> ...as reported by major media outlets.

> I received the check from the phony purchaser of my Fondriest. I contacted the bank listed on the check and guess what? It was an AI that was unable to look anything up. It was completely incapable of even understanding how to find if a particular check was issued by them. This is the argument that is being made for AI.
>
> So then I took it to my bank and in only 5 minutes determined that it was counterfeit. This is actual real people vs. AI just like I said. While I can easily see Flunky being threatened by AI since he has none of the skills that a real engineer would have (no understanding of economics and inability to understand programming) as well as a poor use of the English language, no one with any real skills would be threatened.
>

Congratulations on not losing the bike.

We haven't generally accepted personal checks for twenty
years and when we do it's a 30-day hold before shipping product.

[AMuzi]

Or calling their reportage 'reality'.

[John B.]

On Wed, 7 Jun 2023 09:05:58 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:

Well Tommy, you certainly are proof that intelligence is not necessary
to write bull shit. You do it every day.
--
Cheers,

John B.

[John B.]

But we gotta sell newspapers and a headline "Pickup smashed 6 bicycle
riders" sells so many more then "Grandma O'Reilly's cat just gave
birth to 6 spotted kittens" (:-)

Or. "Them Spanish just sank the Maine!".
--
Cheers,

John B.

[John B.]

On Wed, 7 Jun 2023 09:00:11 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:

But Tommy, Jeff has made many studies that show that you are a liar,
or a fool.... and he has never had to disclaim any of them..
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Tom Kunich]

A couple of hours ago I received a $5,000 check from the same non-existent Louisiana site. I suppose for the Fondriest. It came supposedly from my own bank from a Texas Oil Co. I should send that check to those Texans because they don't play with guns, they use them. But it was so obviously a photoshopped check that I only took it to the bank to verify it. Just how stupid can you be when one of the features of the check is a thermal spot that fades out when touched or heated and the photoshopped printer can't even get the color correct version to do that?

[Frank Krygowski]

If only there were a way to tell what's real!

But to so many people, all is mystery. Nothing can be known.

Ommmmmmm....

--
- Frank Krygowski

[AMuzi]

On 6/7/2023 8:06 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 6/7/2023 6:25 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 6/7/2023 3:16 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>> On 6/7/2023 12:14 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>> On 6/7/2023 10:30 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>> On 6/6/2023 11:23 PM, Bob F wrote:
>>>>>> On 5/20/2023 3:08 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>>> One easy method for pregnant women to kill their babies
>>>>>>> and themselves.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.city-journal.org/article/the-harm-caused-by-masks
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And then, there is reality.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2023/apr/28/instagram-posts/study-does-not-show-that-covid-19-mask-wearing-rai/
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "Reality has a well known liberal bias." - Stephen Colbert
>>>>>
>>>> ...as reported by major media outlets.
>>>
>>> We've got to get the media to stop reporting on

>>> reality! :-)

>>>
>>
>> Or calling their reportage 'reality'.
>
> If only there were a way to tell what's real!
>
> But to so many people, all is mystery. Nothing can be known.
>
> Ommmmmmm....
>

I'm studiously avoiding current political topics for the
moment but a timeless example would be a couple hundred
million USAians dutifully sorting household scrap plus their
taxes paying for very expensive multiple bins and collection
routines, transfer centers, sorting centers, and compactors
along with expensive (capital, operations and maintenance)
vehicles, machinery and plant all slathered with big
expensive dollops of municipal union labor, benefits and
pensions.

So we have, so it would seem, citizens 'doing their part' to
Save The Earth, right? And what's tax expense compared to
Saving The Earth, right?

The honest truth of it is that almost all plastic for
recycling goes to landfill. Paper products about half. Steel
mostly gets recycled but other more valuable metals
(aluminum, brass, copper) in household recycling mostly goes
to landfill as magnetic sorting is the last chance.

This has not changed in forty years and yet people will
argue it because they "just know' that recyclables get recycled.

You could say the The Dream of Recycling is a reality in
itself, and a useful reality for union leaders and
politicians. In my reality it's a sham and a waste.

[John B.]

In Thailand people do collect empty clear plastic bottles, the sort
that drinking water comes in. There is an old guy that comes around on
a motorcycle and roots through trash cans and collects the bottles.
So there must be some sort of reclaiming for the clear plastic kind,
here.

On a bit different subject, no super market, here, now bags your
purchases. You can either bring your own bag, put the goods in your
shopping cart to push out to your car, and or buy a new shopping bag
each time you go to the store.
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Frank Krygowski]

I don't disagree with _all_ that example. Aluminum is highly recyclable,
and highly recycled. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmMP67eC2tg I
doubt enough brass and copper go into household recyclables to be worth
worrying about.

Other material? I was surprised to find that locally, recycled paper is
very marketable. In local interviews, the recycling agency has said
that's one thing that actually pays off for them.

But regarding plastics, you're saying something I've been saying, with a
little less detail, since at least 2000, and I have anecdotes that are
very relevant - although some would say I'm inventing them. (Let me know
if you want two easy ones.)

I'll also point out that there have been articles recently that pointed
out the plastics industry worked hard to create the false impression
that its products were very recyclable. But hey, you know how big
corporations are, don't you? ;-)

So let's take a big step back. You (and I) are saying that plastics are
mostly not recyclable. You're saying that because you learned it
somewhere. You're saying this is a truth that is knowable; and I'm
saying that media are making that truth known.

Perhaps all is not mystery at all!

And hey, maybe the earth really is pretty spherical!

https://news.yahoo.com/georgia-gop-chair-doubles-down-142740480.html

--
- Frank Krygowski

[Catrike Rider]

On Wed, 7 Jun 2023 21:06:05 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>On 6/7/2023 6:25 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 6/7/2023 3:16 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>> On 6/7/2023 12:14 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>> On 6/7/2023 10:30 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>> On 6/6/2023 11:23 PM, Bob F wrote:
>>>>>> On 5/20/2023 3:08 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>>> One easy method for pregnant women to kill their babies
>>>>>>> and themselves.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.city-journal.org/article/the-harm-caused-by-masks
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And then, there is reality.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2023/apr/28/instagram-posts/study-does-not-show-that-covid-19-mask-wearing-rai/
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "Reality has a well known liberal bias." - Stephen Colbert
>>>>>
>>>> ...as reported by major media outlets.
>>>
>>> We've got to get the media to stop reporting on reality!  :-)
>>>
>>
>> Or calling their reportage 'reality'.
>
>If only there were a way to tell what's real!

Reality is a subjective evaluation. One would think that it woukd
become less so as time progresses and information becomes easier to
pass along. Unfortunately, the human species seems to have slipped
into a backward trend in that regard.

>But to so many people, all is mystery. Nothing can be known.

There's a vast diffrence between believing that you know something
and actually knowing it. Unfortunately, many people believe they know
something simply because someone told it to them.

>Ommmmmmm....

Believe nothing you hear, and only one half that you see.
-Edgar Allan Poe

[AMuzi]

Glass can be efficiently recycled and that industry has a
long history. But glass containers add significant shipping
weight to the product and have been mostly displaced by
plastics so the overall volume is very low now.

Those of a certain age can recall when most household liquid
products were sold in glass - vinegar, bleach etc.

[AMuzi]

On 6/7/2023 9:52 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 6/7/2023 10:00 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 6/7/2023 8:06 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>> On 6/7/2023 6:25 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>> On 6/7/2023 3:16 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>> On 6/7/2023 12:14 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>> On 6/7/2023 10:30 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>>> On 6/6/2023 11:23 PM, Bob F wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 5/20/2023 3:08 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>>>>> One easy method for pregnant women to kill their
>>>>>>>>> babies
>>>>>>>>> and themselves.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://www.city-journal.org/article/the-harm-caused-by-masks
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And then, there is reality.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2023/apr/28/instagram-posts/study-does-not-show-that-covid-19-mask-wearing-rai/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Reality has a well known liberal bias." - Stephen
>>>>>>> Colbert
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> ...as reported by major media outlets.
>>>>>
>>>>> We've got to get the media to stop reporting on

>>>>> reality! :-)

>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Or calling their reportage 'reality'.
>>>
>>> If only there were a way to tell what's real!
>>>
>>> But to so many people, all is mystery. Nothing can be known.
>>>
>>> Ommmmmmm....
>>>
>>
>> I'm studiously avoiding current political topics for the
>> moment but a timeless example would be a couple hundred
>> million USAians dutifully sorting household scrap plus
>> their taxes paying for very expensive multiple bins and
>> collection routines, transfer centers, sorting centers,
>> and compactors along with expensive (capital, operations
>> and maintenance) vehicles, machinery and plant all
>> slathered with big expensive dollops of municipal union
>> labor, benefits and pensions.
>>
>> So we have, so it would seem, citizens 'doing their part'

>> to Save The Earth, right? And what's tax expense

Industrial aluminum (punch and turning scrap, sprue etc)
gets recycled. Household metals except steel mostly go to
landfill.

[John B.]

And Beer... As a little kid I used to take my little red wagon and
tour the neighborhood, Sunday, after Church, collecting all the beer
bottles out of garbage cans. Then down to the store to get the rebate.
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Lou Holtman]

Not here. Copper is valuable. To landfill? What a waste. You still have landfills?

Lou

[Tom Kunich]

But our mindless twit Krygowski tells us that anything and everything that can be known is known by a beneficial government that closed down businesses and schools, gave long lasting psychological problems to children by forcing them to wear useless masks against a disease that did not effect children and ruined the economic standing of the US in the world
.
Wait, this is the time for Flunky to chip in that I don't know what I'm talking about and John to cut and paste something out of Google that has no bearing on the case and Liebermann responds with "Oh john , you are so right".

[Tom Kunich]

Virtually everything outside of steel ends up in landfills - what else do you do with food scraps or plastic containers contaminated with food residue that cost a FREAT deal more to clean in order to recycle them than they are worth? China and southern Asia simply dump all plastic into the ocean where eventually bacteria and sunlight destroys it. Of course there is now an entire industry of Woke making the false claim that we are being poisoned by plastic and that there are vast islands of plastic floating in the middle oceans Yet it is strange that they have no actual Google Earth photos of these What they have is pictures taken of the barges of plastic being dumped and then they depict that as those non-existent islands of plastic. It turns out that those "islands" of plastic are a 1 mm piece of plastic for every square meter of ocean. That is certainly a LOT of plastic but they are concentrated in the mid-ocean current vortex.

[Frank Krygowski]

On 6/8/2023 9:00 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>
> Industrial aluminum (punch and turning scrap, sprue etc) gets recycled.
> Household metals except steel mostly go to landfill.

https://www.cohenusa.com/recyclable-items/cans/
"In 2019 alone, more than 42.7 billion aluminum cans were recycled
worldwide, or nearly 60% of all aluminum cans produced."

https://www.theverge.com/2019/9/12/20862775/aluminum-recycling-water-tech-plastic-manufacturing-cocacola-pepsi-apple
"The Aluminum Association, an industry group, says that almost 75
percent of all the aluminum ever produced to date is still in use today."

https://www.lehighcounty.org/Departments/Solid-waste-management/recycling-facts/Aluminum
"About 65 % of America's aluminum is currently recycled. Every minute an
average of 123,097 aluminum cans are recycled. On average, Americans
recycle 2 out of every 3 aluminum cans they use."


... and so on. Where are you getting your information?

--
- Frank Krygowski

[Frank Krygowski]

On 6/8/2023 3:08 AM, Catrike Rider wrote:
>
> Reality is a subjective evaluation.

Wow.

--
- Frank Krygowski

[Frank Krygowski]

In the 1980s I bought beer by the case in bottles, specifically because
of the deposit and returnable bottles. I wanted to do my part to keep
that system going and reduce glass on the roads. Still, deposits went away.

On yesterday's bike ride to the grocery, I bought beer in cans. In my
case, it was because of the "shipping weight" (and volume). Our panniers
have only so much room.


--
- Frank Krygowski

[Catrike Rider]

On Thu, 8 Jun 2023 11:30:03 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>On 6/8/2023 3:08 AM, Catrike Rider wrote:
>>
>> Reality is a subjective evaluation.
>
>Wow.

<LOL> If it's an evaluation, it's subjective. Even a logic-impaired
fool like you should be able to see that, Krygowski.

For instance, your reality is that you're qualified to instruct other
people on how, where, and for what reasons to ride a bicycle. My
reality is that you totally lack those qualifications.

[AMuzi]

Yes, aluminum cans are very efficiently recycled.

Everything else is called 'mixed metal' and has zero
recycling value, typical examples being a broken
aluminum/steel/nylon derailleur or small appliance.

[Lou Holtman]

Typical. Just carry on it will last my lifetime. Putting everything together and throw it from a cliff and cover it with some dirt is the stupidest thing to do just because it is the easiest and the cheapest.

Lou

[Lou Holtman]

Shred it and you can separate the materials. Throwing it in someones yard is easier and cheaper though.

Lou

[Tom Kunich]

I will agree with you that it is stupid. Containers for things like food should always be designed specifically for recyclability but they aren't. Instead they ae designed as a cost commodity. But the problem isn't Europe, UK, or USA but Asia which actually needs the lowest cost containers possible. Then they don't have a robust enough economy to do anything with these containers than to dump them in the ocean.

[Tom Kunich]

I used to use a lot of plastic water bottles which have a 10 cent deposit on them. I used to come out in the morning on garbage day to add something to the recycling bin and you could see that someone had rooted through the bin to find and remove the bottles with deposits on them. So I decided to make it easy for them and I would put all of the bottles in a separate bag so that they could just remove the bag and have all of the bottles conveniently. Much to my surprise they would no touch a plastic bag full of plastic bottles with deposits on them. I don't understand the psychology behind this.

[John B.]

Come now! My neighbor's 7 year old daughter has the training wheel off
her bicycle now. Can riding a bike be 'that' complex a task?
--
Cheers,

John B.

[John B.]

On Thu, 8 Jun 2023 13:27:17 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Thursday, June 8, 2023 at 10:02:45?AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
>> On Thursday, June 8, 2023 at 4:12:40?PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> > On Thursday, June 8, 2023 at 6:45:50?AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:

But Tommy "Asia" or at least the parts I've lived in, say Japan,
Vietnam, Thailand, Malaysia, Singapore, Indonesia, use very few
"containers". In fact folks here eat very little "preserved"food. The
wife is down to the market every morning for the day's food and cook
and serve it fresh every day.
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Frank Krygowski]

Of course, the Florida troll rides only a tricycle. That's evidence that yes,
riding a bike is too complex a task for him. But what he's still chafing about is
that I mentioned the value of sometimes riding near lane center in
a narrow lane.

Yes, I know that some here are very fearful of ever slightly inconveniencing
any motorist; and that some are fearful of ever riding on roads at all. But
state laws in many, perhaps most states permit that tactic, often very specifically.
And the value and use of the technique is taught in the national Cycling Savvy education
courses, and in the courses taught by the League of American Bicyclists, the
similar courses in Canada and Great Britain, and probably elsewhere.

It's not the only technique taught, of course. Those courses also cover things like
destination positioning, communicating and negotiating with motorists,
hazard avoidance, dealing with unusual intersections and much more.

Is it complex? For some! There are many cyclists who don't know those things.
You can often spot them by their behavior on the road (skulking in gutters, weaving in
and out of spaces between parked cars, riding in door zones, etc.) or by their
postings ("I would _never_ ride there!" of "Anyone who delays a motorist
has a death wish" or "I ride only on bike trails" etc.)

Am I qualified to talk about such things? Yes, by virtue of attending multiple
classes at various levels for each of the programs described above. I've also acted
as an editorial consultant on two well known books dealing with those matters.
I've written many articles on those and related topics, and had some of them
reprinted by publications in other states and one other country. I no longer maintain
the teaching certification, but I've taught many cycling classes, I've written scripts for
and appeared in televised instructional spots, I've been interviewed for newspapers and
TV on such matters, and I've spoken (by request) at city, regional and statewide gatherings.

Some would apparently say that's just _my_ reality; that nobody needs to know
those skills (which may be true, if one is timid enough to never ride anywhere
practical or interesting); or that none of that is true in _their_ reality (which may be
true if one lives in a place with different laws and different traffic principles).

But then, in the reality of our four-year-old neighbor boy, he's Batman.

- Frank Krygowski

[Radey Shouman]

Or aluminum foil, food packaging &c. No idea what fraction cans are of
total aluminum consumption.

[John B.]

Well, there are something like 180 billion aluminum cans used annually
of which, I read, some 40 - 60% are recycled - number seems to vary
depending on where you read it (:-)

--
Cheers,

John B.

[AMuzi]

'Asia', from Turkey to Japan and Archangel or Norilsk to Sri
Lanka or Singapore eludes simple generalizations.

[John B.]

rOn Thu, 08 Jun 2023 20:50:16 -0500, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org>
wrote:

Yes, thus the "at least the parts I've lived in" (:-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Catrike Rider]

On Thu, 8 Jun 2023 17:19:15 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski
<frkr...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Thursday, June 8, 2023 at 6:39:25?PM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
>> On Thu, 08 Jun 2023 12:36:17 -0400, Catrike Rider
>> <sol...@drafting.not> wrote:
>>
>> >On Thu, 8 Jun 2023 11:30:03 -0400, Frank Krygowski
>> ><frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>> >
>> >>On 6/8/2023 3:08 AM, Catrike Rider wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> Reality is a subjective evaluation.
>> >>
>> >>Wow.
>> >
>> ><LOL> If it's an evaluation, it's subjective. Even a logic-impaired
>> >fool like you should be able to see that, Krygowski.
>> >
>> >For instance, your reality is that you're qualified to instruct other
>> >people on how, where, and for what reasons to ride a bicycle. My
>> >reality is that you totally lack those qualifications.
>> Come now! My neighbor's 7 year old daughter has the training wheel off
>> her bicycle now. Can riding a bike be 'that' complex a task?
>
>Of course, the Florida troll rides only a tricycle. That's evidence that yes,
>riding a bike is too complex a task for him. But what he's still chafing about is
>that I mentioned the value of sometimes riding near lane center in
>a narrow lane.

Actually, no, you can't make me chafe. I do, however, have a guilty
pleasure of making you chafe by rubbing your nose in your pathetic
attempts to garner respect and admiration. (see below)

>Yes, I know that some here are very fearful of ever slightly inconveniencing
>any motorist; and that some are fearful of ever riding on roads at all. But
>state laws in many, perhaps most states permit that tactic, often very specifically.

<chuckle> If the fact that something is legal means that everyone must
do it, you'd have to carry a gun, and you're afraid of guns.

>And the value and use of the technique is taught in the national Cycling Savvy education
>courses, and in the courses taught by the League of American Bicyclists, the
>similar courses in Canada and Great Britain, and probably elsewhere.

A bunch of do-gooders who get an ego boost by telling other people
what to do. Not the kind of people I'd want to be around.

>It's not the only technique taught, of course. Those courses also cover things like
>destination positioning, communicating and negotiating with motorists,
>hazard avoidance, dealing with unusual intersections and much more.

Some folks don't know anything unless someone else tells them... What
the f**K is "destination positioning?"

>Is it complex? For some! There are many cyclists who don't know those things.
>You can often spot them by their behavior on the road (skulking in gutters, weaving in
>and out of spaces between parked cars, riding in door zones, etc.) or by their
>postings ("I would _never_ ride there!" of "Anyone who delays a motorist
>has a death wish"

"death wish" = straw man alert...

>or "I ride only on bike trails" etc.)

Nobody I know has said that, either.

As for me, I ride on roads and streets when I need to, but I don't
when I don't need to. I did just a few days ago to check out my new
Garmin Bike computer. I did about 2 and a half miles. Sat in the left
turn lane at three different stop light intersections.

Totally banal ride. I don't know why anyone would choose to ride like
that.

>Am I qualified to talk about such things?

Nope... You're a blowhard who strokes your ego by telling others what
to do, and who, by the way, is afraid to hook your feet onto your
pedals.

>Yes, by virtue of attending multiple
>classes at various levels for each of the programs described above.

Sorry, I can't muster up any respect for anyone who'd attend a class
on how to ride a bicycle. But like I said, "some folks don't know
anything unless someone else tells them."

>I've also acted
>as an editorial consultant on two well known books dealing with those matters.
>I've written many articles on those and related topics, and had some of them
>reprinted by publications in other states and one other country. I no longer maintain
>the teaching certification, but I've taught many cycling classes, I've written scripts for
>and appeared in televised instructional spots, I've been interviewed for newspapers and
>TV on such matters, and I've spoken (by request) at city, regional and statewide gatherings.

<EYEROLL> "look at me, look at me."

>Some would apparently say that's just _my_ reality;

Indeed...

>that nobody needs to know
>those skills (which may be true, if one is timid enough to never ride anywhere
>practical or interesting);

Practical and interesting are subjective evaluations.

>or that none of that is true in _their_ reality (which may be
>true if one lives in a place with different laws and different traffic principles).
>
>But then, in the reality of our four-year-old neighbor boy, he's Batman.

<LOL> You're such a blowhard, Krygowski, but I do get a kick out of
seeing your bluster.

>- Frank Krygowski

[John B.]

On Fri, 09 Jun 2023 03:47:47 -0400, Catrike Rider

A self appointed bunch of "experts" who make many claims to fame.
Rather reminiscent of the claims made by the Afro-Irishman or even
Tommy.

But how can it be? In foreign countries, many of which likely have a
higher percent of people actually using a bicycle for transportation,
they somehow get along without the group's vast knowledge.
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Catrike Rider]

On Fri, 09 Jun 2023 15:42:04 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>
wrote:

I have no respect for anyone who touts their education as an
accomplishment, and worse, uses their education to get noticed.
Education is a tool, much like a set of Allen Wrenches. Having a nice
set of Allen Wrenches is not an accomplishment. It's what you do with
the tool that might be worthy of a brag.

[funkma...@hotmail.com]

On Friday, June 9, 2023 at 3:47:51 AM UTC-4, Catrike Rider wrote:
> On Thu, 8 Jun 2023 17:19:15 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski
> <frkr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On Thursday, June 8, 2023 at 6:39:25?PM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
> >> On Thu, 08 Jun 2023 12:36:17 -0400, Catrike Rider
> >> <sol...@drafting.not> wrote:
> >>
> >> >On Thu, 8 Jun 2023 11:30:03 -0400, Frank Krygowski
> >> ><frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >>On 6/8/2023 3:08 AM, Catrike Rider wrote:
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Reality is a subjective evaluation.
> >> >>
> >> >>Wow.
> >> >
> >> ><LOL> If it's an evaluation, it's subjective. Even a logic-impaired
> >> >fool like you should be able to see that, Krygowski.
> >> >
> >> >For instance, your reality is that you're qualified to instruct other
> >> >people on how, where, and for what reasons to ride a bicycle. My
> >> >reality is that you totally lack those qualifications.
> >> Come now! My neighbor's 7 year old daughter has the training wheel off
> >> her bicycle now. Can riding a bike be 'that' complex a task?
> >
> >Of course, the Florida troll rides only a tricycle. That's evidence that yes,
> >riding a bike is too complex a task for him. But what he's still chafing about is
> >that I mentioned the value of sometimes riding near lane center in
> >a narrow lane.
> Actually, no, you can't make me chafe.

oh sure, you chase frank around like a yappy little chihuahua at nearly every post he makes, lobbing nothing but insults and absolutely no substantial argument....that's not being chaffed at all....dumbass. This entire post of yours is nothing but a jealous desperate attempt at attention, because you were so thoroughly embarrassed by the lack of a basic cycling technique of 'taking the the lane'. You're a sad jealous lonely old man.

[Tim R]

On Thursday, June 8, 2023 at 12:04:41 PM UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>
> On yesterday's bike ride to the grocery, I bought beer in cans. In my
> case, it was because of the "shipping weight" (and volume). Our panniers
> have only so much room.
>
>
> --
> - Frank Krygowski

Beer is highly sensitive to sunlight. Even brief exposure gives it that skunky flavor. I would never buy beer in glass (although the really dark bottles are somewhat protective.)

[Catrike Rider]

On Fri, 9 Jun 2023 02:15:19 -0700 (PDT), "funkma...@hotmail.com"
<funkma...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>On Friday, June 9, 2023 at 3:47:51?AM UTC-4, Catrike Rider wrote:
>> On Thu, 8 Jun 2023 17:19:15 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski
>> <frkr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >On Thursday, June 8, 2023 at 6:39:25?PM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
>> >> On Thu, 08 Jun 2023 12:36:17 -0400, Catrike Rider
>> >> <sol...@drafting.not> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >On Thu, 8 Jun 2023 11:30:03 -0400, Frank Krygowski
>> >> ><frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >>On 6/8/2023 3:08 AM, Catrike Rider wrote:
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Reality is a subjective evaluation.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>Wow.
>> >> >
>> >> ><LOL> If it's an evaluation, it's subjective. Even a logic-impaired
>> >> >fool like you should be able to see that, Krygowski.
>> >> >
>> >> >For instance, your reality is that you're qualified to instruct other
>> >> >people on how, where, and for what reasons to ride a bicycle. My
>> >> >reality is that you totally lack those qualifications.
>> >> Come now! My neighbor's 7 year old daughter has the training wheel off
>> >> her bicycle now. Can riding a bike be 'that' complex a task?
>> >
>> >Of course, the Florida troll rides only a tricycle. That's evidence that yes,
>> >riding a bike is too complex a task for him. But what he's still chafing about is
>> >that I mentioned the value of sometimes riding near lane center in
>> >a narrow lane.
>> Actually, no, you can't make me chafe.
>
>oh sure, you chase frank around like a yappy little chihuahua at nearly every post he makes, lobbing nothing but insults and absolutely no substantial argument....that's not being chaffed at all....dumbass. This entire post of yours is nothing but a jealous desperate attempt at attention, because you were so thoroughly embarrassed by the lack of a basic cycling technique of 'taking the the lane'. You're a sad jealous lonely old man.

<GRIN>

[Catrike Rider]

On Fri, 9 Jun 2023 02:20:19 -0700 (PDT), Tim R
<timoth...@gmail.com> wrote:

I hate drinking anything out a can, but alas, many places where I
enjoy having a beer ban glass.

[funkma...@hotmail.com]

Until somewhat recently It was next to impossible to find any good beer in cans.
- bottling small batches is vastly easier for a small brewer. Bottles can be re-used and a capping press is relatively cheap.
- There was a stigma in the craft beer industry surrounding cans, It was a sign of cheap mass-produced shit.

That's largely changed since the craft beer explosion. The cost of shipping in cans is significantly cheaper (due to lighter weight), and cans are more robust to shipping, and As you note cans are more protective of the contents,. Canning machines have been scaled down such that smaller craft producers can easily and cheaply get their beer canned.

We are extremely fortunate to have easily two dozen craft brewers with tasting rooms within 30 minutes, and probably over a hundred within an hour.

[John B.]

On Fri, 9 Jun 2023 02:20:19 -0700 (PDT), Tim R
<timoth...@gmail.com> wrote:

But in years gone by beer was sold in glass bottles. In fact other
then draft beer in a Bar that was all there was.
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Catrike Rider]

On Fri, 09 Jun 2023 17:35:59 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>
wrote:

Dodn't people used to go to the bar to get a bucket of beer.

https://www.glass-jug.com/growlers/

[John B.]

On Fri, 09 Jun 2023 05:02:01 -0400, Catrike Rider

Way back when Indonesia was involved in the so called "trans
migration" program - moving people out of Java, the most densely
populated island in the world we were told - we had a chap working for
us that was deemed an expert in this program, I believe that at the
time he had written at least one book on the subject and certainly was
accepted by the Indonesian government as an expert.

Somebody mentioned that he was a "Doctor" and thinking I might have
stepped on some toes in calling him "Mister" I asked him on day,
"Someone said that you had a doctorate? "He replied, "Well yes, but
then anyone can have one... all you need to do is stay in school a few
more years."

Sort of the difference between someone who has confidence in his own
abilities.... and others.
--
Cheers,

John B.

[John B.]

Not in New Hampshire (:-) You couldn't even carry a glass of beer from
the bar to a table. You had to call a waitress to do that. But a
bucket of beer was, if I'm not mistakes "draft beer" out of the spigot
into your bucket (:-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Catrike Rider]

On Fri, 09 Jun 2023 18:24:32 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>

+1

I've come across people I describe as professional students. They
can't do diddly-squat, but they're a "whiz" at remembering what
they've read and what others have told them.

[AMuzi]

One of my exes has two Masters and five years wasted into a
(ABD) PhD in a specialty area of literature. She sells
potted plants at a garden center. Not the only example. I
knew two cab drivers with advanced degrees in English.

[Tom Kunich]

You have to remember that Slocomb says things like "the wife is down now at the market" meaning he doesn't even have a passing clue what the world outside of his doorstep is like.

https://multifiles.pressherald.com/uploads/sites/4/2015/02/587640_RTXSPW0.jpg
https://blogs-images.forbes.com/hannahleung/files/2018/04/Plastic-2-1200x800.jpeg

Five Asian country's dump MOST of the plastic into the oceans and people that that piece of shit Krygowski claim it is America.

[Tom Kunich]

It was not uncommon for me to be given jobs to correct the theories and conclusions of MS degrees. PhD is usually so specialized that pretending that they are knowledgeable in an entire area of science is a joke. NOT that there aren't PhD's with broad knowledge. But take my step son - with his PhD he is barely qualified to manage people that know what they're doing. The second step delighter is just finishing with her PhD in physical therapy which is so0 spectacularly specialized that it demands that sort of knowledge. But she would never think of practicing general medicine. She is a Dr. in a medical field that isn't an MD. The youngest step-daughter is running the legal department below the lawyers with an AA. It is for the Kaiser Hospital System and makes six figures. The oldest step daughter manages a Ross with no degree and makes such a good living that her husband doesn't work (this in California mind you). They want to move her into general management.

Seems like the whole world is doing better than Flunky and company. No wonder he is so angry at the world. If you believe that Liebermann isn't on welfare and MediCal, you don't have a clue.

[Frank Krygowski]

On 6/9/2023 4:42 AM, John B. wrote:
>
> A self appointed bunch of "experts" who make many claims to fame.
> Rather reminiscent of the claims made by the Afro-Irishman or even
> Tommy.
>
> But how can it be? In foreign countries, many of which likely have a
> higher percent of people actually using a bicycle for transportation,
> they somehow get along without the group's vast knowledge.

How can it be? First, traffic conditions vary around the globe. In some
foreign countries, "traffic" consists more of pedestrians and bicycles
than cars, and streets are crowded enough to keep car speeds down. When
cyclists dominate the roads, cycling is simpler. Learning by simple
imitation works.

Second, in many European countries, there is a long history of sharing
roads with cyclists. That affects culture. Motorists generally know how
to behave and how to cooperate with cyclists. And that same history
allows cyclists to learn from previous generations of cyclists, either
formally (there are classes) or informally.

The U.S., Canada and Australia (at minimum) are different. These are
automobile dominated countries, places where adult cycling essentially
vanished between roughly 1930 and 1970, and car culture took over the
roads. When adult cycling picked back up in the 1970s there was a vacuum
of information. It took a while to recover from that, and the recovery
is far from complete.

John, I suspect that if you and your bike were dropped into (say)
Columbus, Ohio and told to ride between two destinations separated by
five miles, you'd refuse. So would the tricycle rider in Florida. And
for both of you, the refusal would be wise. As the saying goes, you
don't know what you don't know.

("What the f**k is destination positioning?" indeed!)

--
- Frank Krygowski

[Frank Krygowski]

On 6/9/2023 10:03 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>
> One of my exes has two Masters and five years wasted into a (ABD) PhD in
> a specialty area of literature. She sells potted plants at a garden
> center. Not the only example. I knew two cab drivers with advanced
> degrees in English.

I know a guy who got an advanced degree in "Peace Studies," whatever
that is. I saw him sorting stock in an office supply store.

I know two people who got advanced degrees in English. Their trendy
little bakery is doing fairly well, but not because of their degrees.

And guess what? I used to know one guy who traveled to Oregon or
somewhere to take a course in Bike Mechanics. He intended to work in a
bike shop. Last I heard, he was an airline steward or travel agent, I
forget which.

Not all degrees, and not all knowledge, are equally valuable.

Here we have at least two guys who are saying nobody needs to learn
anything about riding a bike competently on the roads. Ironically, they
never ride on American roads. Well, except for the big adventure of
riding a mile or two on empty streets to see if their latest bike toy
works.

--
- Frank Krygowski

[AMuzi]

I think we all agree that education has value.

(sometimes in application not so lucrative)

Many people separate the value of education form various
certifications.

Even here on RBT, 'cycling instruction' content would be
extremely varied from one RBTer to another.

[Tom Kunich]

Here is another case of Frank flying so far off of the handle that he doesn't even connect reality with his fantasies. Some guy that "traveled to Oregon to take a course in bicycle mechanics" should have an advantage over 100 other people in his chosen area of residence who learned strictly by practice exactly why?

This is Frank's extreme biases showing yet again - this guy takes a course so he is automatically more qualified than someone else. It is a mental problem of Krygowski's that is accelerating just link dementia and hence I believe that is what is occurring. It is underscored by the very fact that Frank does even SEE what he just did.

[Frank Krygowski]

I'm not so sure all agree. There are those here who skip no opportunity
to mock education and those who deliver it.

>> (sometimes in application not so lucrative)
>>
>> Many people separate the value of education form various
>> certifications.
>>
>> Even here on RBT, 'cycling instruction' content would be
>> extremely varied from one RBTer to another.

:-) Wait! Are you implying that one person may know more than another?
For some, that's heresy!

> Here is another case of Frank flying so far off of the handle that he doesn't even connect reality with his fantasies. Some guy that "traveled to Oregon to take a course in bicycle mechanics" should have an advantage over 100 other people in his chosen area of residence who learned strictly by practice exactly why?

Tom, I didn't speak positively or negatively about any particular bike
mechanics course. I simply stated what this guy did. I do think the fact
that he traveled ~3000 miles to get to the course indicates some
commitment. Not that it helped him much.

(It helped me a little. He gave me a couple tools he bought, once he
decided he'd never use them.)

> This is Frank's extreme biases showing yet again - this guy takes a course so he is automatically more qualified than someone else.

I wouldn't say he's _automatically_ more qualified. But I do think it's
likely a person who's taken a course in some subject will know more
than, say, a random guy who thinks he's already an expert on everything
under the sun.

AFAIK, you learned bike mechanics "strictly by practice." And I note
you're still having frequent bike mechanical problems. You easily hold
the record for mechanical problems in this discussion group. Ever think
of taking a class? ;-)

--
- Frank Krygowski

[Catrike Rider]

..and how many fools with degrees in "Gender Studies" are waiting
tables and flipping burgers?

[Catrike Rider]

Riding a bicycle does not require any schooling for most people, but
then, there are those who can't function without being told what to do
by people who aren't qualified to do it.

>John, I suspect that if you and your bike were dropped into (say)
>Columbus, Ohio and told to ride between two destinations separated by
>five miles, you'd refuse. So would the tricycle rider in Florida. And
>for both of you, the refusal would be wise. As the saying goes, you
>don't know what you don't know.
>
>("What the f**k is destination positioning?" indeed!)

Not on the Catrike, but I'd certainly do it on a two wheeler. Wasn't
that long ago I was riding in downtown St Pete and Tampa with no
problems.