Paul Pelosi

[Tom Kunich]

Someone broke into the Pelosi household in a gated and patrolled community. He was carrying a hammer which must really dampen that fool Krygowski's asinine claims of the dangers from guns on the street.

Paul headed him off and in the scuffle both were severely injured. Some assholes can't get anything right. Hey Stupid it was Nancy not Paul. Paul merely was part of the Pelosi crime family that was buying up stocks of companies that Nancy made sure the government was going to issue huge contracts.

Hopefully Paul will recover fully but I could wish otherwise were it Nancy.

By the way - a whistleblower said that that Diane Feinstein is now do deep into demenita that she doesn't even know what day it is. So of course the far left is attempting to destroy the whistleblower

But with their lies about Feinstein, have you SEEN her lately? It is plain that she is suffering a great deal from dementia. If she is looking around at her surroundings as if she has no idea where she is, something is going on that isn't good.

[AMuzi]

The weapon was a dangerous ASSAULT hammer.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[Tom Kunich]

What is an assault hammer?

[AMuzi]

It means anything you like, different from day to day, like
'assault rifle'.

[John B.]

I believe that the term originated with the German Sturmgewehr 44,
which was the first small, rapid fire, weapon developed for military
use. The words Sturmgewehr mean Assault, or Attack and weapon or
rifle.
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Catrike Rider]

Wrapped in a multiple round magazine. I heard it was an old Saturday
Evening Post.

[AMuzi]

I noted the actual meaning here on RBT for many years. To no
avail. If it 'looks scary', it's now a dread 'assault rifle'.

[Oculus Lights]

... as the political trolling here continues...

[Frank Krygowski]

If such a term existed, it would probably mean a hammer optimized in
various ways for killing people, as opposed to one optimized for
practical purposes like driving nails.

See https://tinyurl.com/3bpdfhkn

I doubt the hammer in the Pelosi incident met such criteria. But I
suppose we'll see.

--
- Frank Krygowski

[Frank Krygowski]

"The actual meaning" is not necessarily what any particular gun fan
chooses to say it is.

--
- Frank Krygowski

[AMuzi]

Cracked his skull (repair surgery was successful, reported
within this hour)and the scumbag is facing attempted murder
charges. That's a serious assault.

[AMuzi]

>>> I believe that the term originated with the GermanĀ

>>> Sturmgewehr 44,
>>> which was the first small, rapid fire, weapon developed
>>> for military

>>> use. The wordsĀ Sturmgewehr mean Assault, or Attack and

>>> weapon or
>>> rifle.
>>>
>>
>> I noted the actual meaning here on RBT for many years. To
>> no avail. If it 'looks scary', it's now a dread 'assault
>> rifle'.
>
> "The actual meaning" is not necessarily what any particular
> gun fan chooses to say it is.
>

I didn't invent 'sturgewehr'. It's an actual thing and
decidedly not an AR-15 or anything like it.

But thanks for confirming that words no longer matter.

[John B.]

Well... I suppose it is a way to describe a smaller, lighter rifle
from a conventional "hunting" rifle.. We do use the term "bench rest",
for example. to differentiate between heavy, usually single shot,
target rifles and conventional hunting rifles.

Besides, for the gun haters "Assault" sounds far more dangerious then,
oh say, "lever action" or "bolt action".

As an aside, the figures I see is a maximum of 117 deaths and 687
injuries in mass shooting in the U.S. per year (2017) while bicycle
deaths seem to be in the 800 range, and over 130,000 injuries. per
year range and have been for years.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/811504/mass-shooting-victims-in-the-united-states-by-fatalities-and-injuries/
https://www.cdc.gov/transportationsafety/bicycle/index.html
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Frank Krygowski]

On Friday, October 28, 2022 at 9:32:24 PM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
> On Fri, 28 Oct 2022 19:00:07 -0500, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>
> >On 10/28/2022 6:09 PM, John B. wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> I believe that the term originated with the German Sturmgewehr 44,
> >> which was the first small, rapid fire, weapon developed for military
> >> use. The words Sturmgewehr mean Assault, or Attack and weapon or
> >> rifle.
> >>
> >
> >I noted the actual meaning here on RBT for many years. To no
> >avail. If it 'looks scary', it's now a dread 'assault rifle'.

Please. The term is used for a family of very similar rifles whose most obvious
design features were specifically intended for rapidly killing people. The intent of
the design was to get it sold to the military. The original Armalite version didn't
do well in military sales, but the civilian copies of the design sell like hotcakes to
gun fetishists.

> Well... I suppose it is a way to describe a smaller, lighter rifle
> from a conventional "hunting" rifle..

I believe it's the type of rifle most often used in assault. Doesn't that justify the
term?

A few months ago there was apparently some gangs' territory competition or
something similar going on in the cities just north of me. There were quite a
few shootings shown on the evening news.

What I noted was the news crew photos of the cops' investigations. Shell casings
locations get marked with numbered plastic markers; and on the roadways, in several
incidents, there were well over a dozen of those markers closely spaced on the road.

Now what sort of gun would eject well over a dozen shell casings in a very short time,
before the shooter ran or drove off?

My point is that rapid fire guns are used by "scumbags." I think it's safe to say those
are the only people using them outside of a shooting range. Nobody else has need to.
Except to pretend that they're in a real life "first person shooter" game.

> As an aside, the figures I see is a maximum of 117 deaths and 687
> injuries in mass shooting in the U.S. per year (2017) while bicycle
> deaths seem to be in the 800 range, and over 130,000 injuries. per
> year range and have been for years.
> https://www.statista.com/statistics/811504/mass-shooting-victims-in-the-united-states-by-fatalities-and-injuries/
> https://www.cdc.gov/transportationsafety/bicycle/index.html

John, I think we can agree that deaths count as disadvantages, right?

Will you _ever_ list the advantages of facilitating mass shootings by selling
light weight, compact, rapid fire rifles with military origins?

We can make it a contest. I'll list the advantages of bicycling for comparison,

You know: Advantages vs. disadvantages. A principle you continually squirm
away from addressing.

- Frank Krygowski

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Fri, 28 Oct 2022 13:48:35 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:

>What is an assault hammer?

It's a spelling error and should be "a salt hammer", which is a hammer
used to granulate rock salt into table salt or finer popcorn salt.

--
Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

[John B.]

On Fri, 28 Oct 2022 22:20:58 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>
wrote:

>On Fri, 28 Oct 2022 13:48:35 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
><cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>What is an assault hammer?
>
>It's a spelling error and should be "a salt hammer", which is a hammer
>used to granulate rock salt into table salt or finer popcorn salt.

But why not an "assault hammer" After all, weapons that could well fit
this description were used for quite a number of years in "assaults".
(;-)

The Middle English word "mace" comes from the French "masse" (short
for "Masse d'armes") meaning ‘large hammer’
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mace_(bludgeon)
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Catrike Rider]

So, what do *YOU* say "the actual meaning" of "assault rifle" is?

[Catrike Rider]

On Sat, 29 Oct 2022 08:32:18 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>

No, a bench rest is a device used to steady a rifle.
https://tinyurl.com/mvdv6kft

[Catrike Rider]

Many handguns, including one of mine will do that, Dummy. It's just a
matter of the capacity of the magazine. Fact is that most, perhaps all
semi-automatic handguns or rifles have the ability to match the fire
rate of an AR type gun, and there a lot of after market hi-cap
magazines available for them

>My point is that rapid fire guns are used by "scumbags."

Yes, since it's illegal for almost every private person to have one in
the USA.

>I think it's safe to say those
>are the only people using them outside of a shooting range. Nobody else has need to.
>Except to pretend that they're in a real life "first person shooter" game.

It's becoming very clear that Krygowski has no idea what an AR15 is,
knows almost nothing about firearms in general, and that his claim of
going shooting with friends is bullshit.

>> As an aside, the figures I see is a maximum of 117 deaths and 687
>> injuries in mass shooting in the U.S. per year (2017) while bicycle
>> deaths seem to be in the 800 range, and over 130,000 injuries. per
>> year range and have been for years.
>> https://www.statista.com/statistics/811504/mass-shooting-victims-in-the-united-states-by-fatalities-and-injuries/
>> https://www.cdc.gov/transportationsafety/bicycle/index.html
>
>John, I think we can agree that deaths count as disadvantages, right?
>
>Will you _ever_ list the advantages of facilitating mass shootings by selling
>light weight, compact, rapid fire rifles with military origins?

Rapid fire rifles are pretty much illegal, dummy, as are rapid fire
hand guns.

[Catrike Rider]

One of many.

[Andre Jute]

Heh-heh!
>
In that case it was a political choice to break into Nancy and Paul's house, and is surely a portent of the massacre at the voting booth to come shortly.
>
Andre Jute
Mind you, if I were a crim, I'd vote for the Democrat no-bail release, the revolving door in every copshop.
>

[Andre Jute]

On Saturday, October 29, 2022 at 4:09:22 AM UTC+1, frkr...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> We can make it a contest. I'll list the advantages of bicycling for comparison,
>
> You know: Advantages vs. disadvantages. A principle you continually squirm
> away from addressing.
>
> - Frank Krygowski
>

Gee, Franki-boy! "Advantages vs. disadvantages." That's coming pretty close to *cost-benefit analysis". The creepy-crawly Dems and the quarterwit Greenies will unperson you, cancel your slack ass as an "enemy". You're in serious danger of having Tom and me approve of you, even if only for a parsec. Soon you'll have to come out of the closet as a secret Benthamite (Slow Johnny will look it up for you).
>
Welcome to the Good People, Franki-boy!
>
Andre Jute
I keep telling you guys, with a few decades of hard work, we can turn the most useless scum into productive citizen.
>

[Catrike Rider]

https://tinyurl.com/283wu8ps

[Catrike Rider]

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/b4/e7/9b/b4e79b81d013250819b32f8cec6fd219.jpg

[Tom Kunich]

This morning they made public two things - the guy broke into the house screaming "Where's Nancy" and the police were there in a matter of seconds. Not the private security guards, the San Francisco Police. I am only 1 1/2 miles from the police station and when I called the cops it took 10 minutes for one cop to show up. And he rang the door bell and then ran and hid like a little kid playing a joke.

[Frank Krygowski]

Right. And I gave a link showing other designs of hammers intended as
weaponry.

Nobody should be able to confuse such a weapon hammer with a common
utility hammer. Just as nobody should be able to confuse an assault
rifle with an ordinary utility rifle. In both cases, the design
differences are obvious.


--
- Frank Krygowski

[Catrike Rider]

Yet, you can't say what those "obvious differences" are. It's clear
that you are the one that's confused.

[Tom Kunich]

Francis simply cannot say anything that makes sense. The man was carrying a normal carpenter's hammer. But Krygowski is overwrought with the thoughts that a special Viking hammer was used. As old as he is, he still hasn't grown up. But that is the way communists are.

[Catrike Rider]

On Sat, 29 Oct 2022 12:26:31 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich

It looks like Frank's news sources are contributing to his ignorance.
It's hard to believe that anyone today, still doesn't understand that
AR15s don't fire any faster than any other semi-automatic and that
owning rapid fire guns is illegal for anyone without a very special
licence.

[Tim R]

On Friday, October 28, 2022 at 9:32:24 PM UTC-4, John B. wrote:

> >>> It means anything you like, different from day to day, like
> >>> 'assault rifle'.
> >>
> >> I believe that the term originated with the German Sturmgewehr 44,
> >> which was the first small, rapid fire, weapon developed for military
> >> use. The words Sturmgewehr mean Assault, or Attack and weapon or
> >> rifle.
> >>
> >
> >I noted the actual meaning here on RBT for many years. To no
> >avail. If it 'looks scary', it's now a dread 'assault rifle'.
> Well... I suppose it is a way to describe a smaller, lighter rifle
> from a conventional "hunting" rifle.. We do use the term "bench rest",
> for example. to differentiate between heavy, usually single shot,
> target rifles and conventional hunting rifles.

Smaller and lighter, yes, but the definition should also include a lower powered cartridge, intermediate between pistol and rifle.

[Tom Kunich]

.223 was chosen since the ammunition is lighter and a soldier can catty more of it with him. In my opinion one of the most dangerous guns is a 22 magnum in long rifle or handgun. They have enough recoil to never jam the gun and far more power than a .22 long rifle.

[Tim R]

On Friday, October 28, 2022 at 11:09:22 PM UTC-4, frkr...@gmail.com wrote:
> I believe it's the type of rifle most often used in assault. Doesn't that justify the
> term?
>

Most often used in assault?

I don't have any particular love for that category of tool, but I do value precision in words a little bit.

"Most often used" is pretty sloppy language, and not well supported by any data.

If you mean the weapon most often used in homicides, you'd be wrong, at least in the US. Depending on what year you pull data from, assault style rifles are a small percentage of homicides. The FBI doesn't distinguish between models of rifles, but on average there are about 340 rifle murders per year, out of 14,000 gun homicides. I've found data showing less than 0.25%, but these numbers look like 2.4% for all kinds of rifles.

But maybe you mean the rifles themselves are most often used for an assault, rather than some other purpose? Hm. There are around 20 million AR15s in the US, and we have 340 rifle murders per year. Well, that's probably more than Europe has per decade, but still. Clearly hardly any ARs are misused. Those dang thutty thutties, though, they gotta go.

Bottom line, these are more scarey, and yet cause less harm than any other type of gun in the US.

[Catrike Rider]

The only reason people think they're "scarey" is because some
politicians and media tell them that they're "scarey."

[John B.]

On Sat, 29 Oct 2022 12:07:57 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

And there you go with your fantasies again. Tell us what is wrong/bad
about assault rifles?

Oh! That's right, they are designed to kill people and that's bad...
but what about sniper rifles? Aren't they used to kill people?

and perhaps the most common sniper rifle used in the Vietnam escapade
was... wait for it....

The Remington 700 rifle, bolt action rifle that had been manufactured
since 1962 and is still made and sold today.

Shouldn't you be ranting and raving about that?
https://tinyurl.com/bd24fh8a
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M40_rifle
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remington_Model_700
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Tom Kunich]

Frank is a ass and a lying ass. Only something like 7% of murders are committed using AR-15 type rifles and they are almost entirely committed by police SWAT teams.

Frank simply cannot keep himself from lying about anything and everything. He needs his face kicked in until he gives up and ceases to lie about anything and everything.

https://www.bevfitchett.us/gun-laws/what-percentage-of-murders-are-committed-with-an-ar-15.html

This has been brought up MANY times before, the statistics were shown to Frank and he continues to make false claim after false claim.

[John B.]

Not really the Civilian version of the 5.56×45mm NATO cartridge. seems
to have ballistics of 2,950 ft/s with a 69 gr bullet for a muzzle
energy of 1,338 ft·lbf
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Table_of_handgun_and_rifle_cartridges
A fairish number of cartridges develop the same or less energy
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Catrike Rider]

Actually, I think Frank is just ignorant, although it's pretty clear
he lied about shooting with his friends.

[Frank Krygowski]

About precision in words: I chose my language carefully. You've dug into
homicides; but I was speaking of assaults. (I suppose homicides are a
subset, but the number of homicides is far different than the number of
assaults.)

And I wasn't comparing against all types of guns. I did not include
handguns, shotguns, etc. I was talking specifically about rifles.

Finally, I was stating my belief. I'm aware data is scarce. But I still
believe AR-style rifles are used in more _assaults_ than any other style
_rifle_, but I'm willing to look at data showing other _rifle_ styles
are more frequently used.

After all, the style's design features were based on effectiveness
against other human beings, as opposed to deer, squirrels, groundhogs etc.

--
- Frank Krygowski

[Frank Krygowski]

Get back to me when someone uses a Remington 700 to kill a dozen little
kids, or many dozen concertgoers, or a pile of high school kids, or...

--
- Frank Krygowski

[John B.]

Well there is some data for weapons used in assaults see
https://tinyurl.com/yp978jax
Under the heading "Criminal Use of Assault Weapons and High-Capacity
Semiautomatic Firearms"

The data shown indicates that
"Assaults Weapons as % of guns" ranged from a high of 6.4% to a low of
2.4% used, depending on the city being studied.
--
Cheers,

John B.

[John B.]

On Sat, 29 Oct 2022 21:01:14 -0400, Frank Krygowski

Well Frank, the data I find
https://www.statista.com/statistics/811504/mass-shooting-victims-in-the-united-states-by-fatalities-and-injuries/
that in the year with the most deaths and injuries there were 117
deaths and 587 injuries in mass shootings.

and again in current statistics
https://www.cdc.gov/transportationsafety/bicycle/index.html
"Yearly 1,000 bicyclists die and over 130,000 are injured in crashes
that occur on roads in the United States every year

It seems like if you are worried about deaths and injuries you ought
to be looking at bicycles before you look at guns
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Radey Shouman]

When someone is swinging a "common utility hammer" at your head, a
certain amount of confusion is almost inevitable.

[Catrike Rider]

What "design features" do you believe make them "more effective

against other human beings, as opposed to deer, squirrels, groundhogs

etc?"

Actually, Frank only believes that nonsense because some other moron
told him so.. That other moron might well have been Joe Biden.

The truth is that most semi-auto rifles are equally effective against
human beings, deer, squirrels, groundhogs etc. The pistol grip simply
mkes the AR15 easier to carry... and, of course it makes morons like
Krykowski think they're scarier looking.

[Catrike Rider]

On Sat, 29 Oct 2022 21:01:14 -0400, Frank Krygowski

Could've been a plain old hunting rifle. They're just as effective.
The loonies who do that have been told, and have bought into the
ridiculous notion that AR15s are more scary looking, so that's why
they use them.

[Andre Jute]

Popular Mechanics published a step-by-step instruction set for turning that "controversial" wooden assault rifle into a crossbow. --- AJ

[AMuzi]

Uh, revolvers are also designed for 'effectiveness against
other human beings'. As are butterfly knives and nunchucks.

pffft.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[Frank Krygowski]

You're carefully ignoring my sentence as actually written.

--
- Frank Krygowski

[Frank Krygowski]

I browsed that for a while. I didn't see where it compared assault-style
rifles against other styles of rifles. If it's there, can you point it out?

I do see things like "LCM [Large Capacity Magazine] firearms, which
include AWs [Assault Weapons] as well as other
high-capacity semiautomatics, appear to account for 22
to 36% of crime guns in most places, with some estimates upwards of 40%
for cases involving serious violence." Those are high percentages.

Again, I think the _only_ people shooting these things in public are
scumbags, other than the police in America who are forced to respond to
the scumbags.

--
- Frank Krygowski

[Frank Krygowski]

I'll start listing the benefits of bicycling right after you list the
benefits of mass murders, John. Then can we _finally_ compare benefits
vs. detriments?

Perhaps it would be quicker if you just admitted that bicycling's
benefits far outweigh its detrimenets; and that the opposite is true for
rapid fire guns.

--
- Frank Krygowski

[AMuzi]

On 10/29/2022 8:01 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 10/29/2022 6:53 PM, John B. wrote:
>> On Sat, 29 Oct 2022 12:07:57 -0400, Frank Krygowski
>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On 10/29/2022 1:25 AM, John B. wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 28 Oct 2022 22:20:58 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
>>>> <je...@cruzio.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, 28 Oct 2022 13:48:35 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
>>>>> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> What is an assault hammer?
>>>>>
>>>>> It's a spelling error and should be "a salt hammer",
>>>>> which is a hammer
>>>>> used to granulate rock salt into table salt or finer
>>>>> popcorn salt.
>>>>
>>>> But why not an "assault hammer" After all, weapons that
>>>> could well fit
>>>> this description were used for quite a number of years
>>>> in "assaults".
>>>> (;-)
>>>>
>>>> The Middle English word "mace" comes from the French
>>>> "masse" (short

>>>> for "Masse d'armes") meaning ‘large hammer’

Or 8 cyclists dead, mostly tourists, and more with
significant injuries including a 14 year old girl:

https://abc7ny.com/ny-truck-attack-manhattan-new-york-nyc-shooting/2589773/

And missed my very good customer by inches (he's a witness
at the Federal terrorism trial)

[Catrike Rider]

You're carefully avoiding describing the "style's design features" you
wrote about.

[AMuzi]

On 10/29/2022 10:02 PM, Radey Shouman wrote:
> Frank Krygowski <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> writes:
>
>> On 10/29/2022 1:25 AM, John B. wrote:
>>> On Fri, 28 Oct 2022 22:20:58 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Fri, 28 Oct 2022 13:48:35 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
>>>> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> What is an assault hammer?
>>>>
>>>> It's a spelling error and should be "a salt hammer", which is a hammer
>>>> used to granulate rock salt into table salt or finer popcorn salt.
>>> But why not an "assault hammer" After all, weapons that could well
>>> fit
>>> this description were used for quite a number of years in "assaults".
>>> (;-)
>>> The Middle English word "mace" comes from the French "masse" (short

>>> for "Masse d'armes") meaning ‘large hammer’

>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mace_(bludgeon)
>>
>> Right. And I gave a link showing other designs of hammers intended as
>> weaponry.
>>
>> Nobody should be able to confuse such a weapon hammer with a common
>> utility hammer. Just as nobody should be able to confuse an assault
>> rifle with an ordinary utility rifle. In both cases, the design
>> differences are obvious.
>
> When someone is swinging a "common utility hammer" at your head, a
> certain amount of confusion is almost inevitable.
>

+1

[Catrike Rider]

On Sun, 30 Oct 2022 10:55:16 -0400, Frank Krygowski

...the vast majority of which are hanguns, not rifles, Dummy.

Of the homicides by firearm, 65 percent — or 7,105 — were committed
with handguns, 3.4 percent with rifles
https://www.dailypress.com/news/crime/dp-nws-assault-rifles-handgun-violence-20180312-story.html

>Again, I think the _only_ people shooting these things in public are
>scumbags, other than the police in America who are forced to respond to
>the scumbags.

Yeah, but you also thought they were "rapid fire" until I corrected
you. IOW, you're thinking is not so good.

[AMuzi]

On 10/29/2022 8:01 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:

> On 10/29/2022 6:53 PM, John B. wrote:
>> On Sat, 29 Oct 2022 12:07:57 -0400, Frank Krygowski
>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On 10/29/2022 1:25 AM, John B. wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 28 Oct 2022 22:20:58 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
>>>> <je...@cruzio.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, 28 Oct 2022 13:48:35 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
>>>>> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> What is an assault hammer?
>>>>>
>>>>> It's a spelling error and should be "a salt hammer",
>>>>> which is a hammer
>>>>> used to granulate rock salt into table salt or finer
>>>>> popcorn salt.
>>>>
>>>> But why not an "assault hammer" After all, weapons that
>>>> could well fit
>>>> this description were used for quite a number of years
>>>> in "assaults".
>>>> (;-)
>>>>
>>>> The Middle English word "mace" comes from the French
>>>> "masse" (short

>>>> for "Masse d'armes") meaning ‘large hammer’

You forgot the most notorious Remington 700 from our youth:

https://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/texas/article/Rifle-reported-to-be-used-in-Charles-Whitman-5777479.php

16 dead, many injured.

Oh by the way, "It bears mentioning that the police gained
entry to the tower thanks to cover fire from citizens who
had rifles in their vehicles. This was way before SWAT
teams. So armed citizens were key with taking Whitman out."

https://www.city-data.com/forum/politics-other-controversies/3073563-what-weapons-did-charles-whitman-use.html

[Catrike Rider]

On Sun, 30 Oct 2022 10:23:23 -0500, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 10/29/2022 8:01 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On 10/29/2022 6:53 PM, John B. wrote:
>>> On Sat, 29 Oct 2022 12:07:57 -0400, Frank Krygowski
>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 10/29/2022 1:25 AM, John B. wrote:
>>>>> On Fri, 28 Oct 2022 22:20:58 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
>>>>> <je...@cruzio.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, 28 Oct 2022 13:48:35 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
>>>>>> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What is an assault hammer?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's a spelling error and should be "a salt hammer",
>>>>>> which is a hammer
>>>>>> used to granulate rock salt into table salt or finer
>>>>>> popcorn salt.
>>>>>
>>>>> But why not an "assault hammer" After all, weapons that
>>>>> could well fit
>>>>> this description were used for quite a number of years
>>>>> in "assaults".
>>>>> (;-)
>>>>>
>>>>> The Middle English word "mace" comes from the French
>>>>> "masse" (short

>>>>> for "Masse d'armes") meaning ‘large hammer’

Martin Luther KIng, Jr. John F Kennedy were killed with hunting type
rifles.

[Tom Kunich]

Moreover, they are carefully not telling you if this guy waws on the drugs they have essentially legalized by not prosecuting

[Tom Kunich]

Frank lies and then when proven wrong he simply lies again. Any posting he makes is purely BS. When even Slocum is contradicting him complete with references you would think that Frank would desist. Instead, he doubles down.

[AMuzi]

On 10/30/2022 9:50 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 10/30/2022 10:44 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 10/29/2022 7:37 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>> On 10/29/2022 5:18 PM, Tim R wrote:
>>>> On Friday, October 28, 2022 at 11:09:22 PM UTC-4,
>>>> frkr...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>> I believe it's the type of rifle most often used in
>>>>> assault. Doesn't that justify the
>>>>> term?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Most often used in assault?
>>>>
>>>> I don't have any particular love for that category of
>>>> tool, but I do value precision in words a little bit.
>>>>
>>>> "Most often used" is pretty sloppy language, and not well
>>>> supported by any data.
>>>>
>>>> If you mean the weapon most often used in homicides, you'd

>>>> be wrong, at least in the US. Depending on what year you

>>>> pull data from, assault style rifles are a small

>>>> percentage of homicides. The FBI doesn't distinguish

>>>> between models of rifles, but on average there are about
>>>> 340 rifle murders per year, out of 14,000 gun homicides.

>>>> I've found data showing less than 0.25%, but these

>>>> numbers look like 2.4% for all kinds of rifles.
>>>>
>>>> But maybe you mean the rifles themselves are most often

>>>> used for an assault, rather than some other purpose? Hm.

>>>> There are around 20 million AR15s in the US, and we have

>>>> 340 rifle murders per year. Well, that's probably more
>>>> than Europe has per decade, but still. Clearly hardly any
>>>> ARs are misused. Those dang thutty thutties, though, they

>>>> gotta go.
>>>>
>>>> Bottom line, these are more scarey, and yet cause less
>>>> harm than any other type of gun in the US.
>>>
>>> About precision in words: I chose my language carefully.
>>> You've dug into homicides; but I was speaking of assaults.
>>> (I suppose homicides are a subset, but the number of
>>> homicides is far different than the number of assaults.)
>>>
>>> And I wasn't comparing against all types of guns. I did not
>>> include handguns, shotguns, etc. I was talking specifically
>>> about rifles.
>>>
>>> Finally, I was stating my belief. I'm aware data is scarce.
>>> But I still believe AR-style rifles are used in more
>>> _assaults_ than any other style _rifle_, but I'm willing to
>>> look at data showing other _rifle_ styles are more
>>> frequently used.
>>>
>>> After all, the style's design features were based on
>>> effectiveness against other human beings, as opposed to
>>> deer, squirrels, groundhogs etc.
>>>
>>
>> Uh, revolvers are also designed for 'effectiveness against
>> other human beings'. As are butterfly knives and nunchucks.
>
> You're carefully ignoring my sentence as actually written.
>

There's nothing about a .38 Special revolver that pertains
to "deer, squirrels, groundhogs etc". It fires at exactly
the same rate as my AR-15, but has never once in 45 years
had a jam or FTF or FTE. Ever.

[AMuzi]

'Semi auto with extended mag' is some high number of US pistols:
https://pictures.gunauction.com/8448193918/11318462/xm5910bkt%2009.jpg_thumbnail0.jpg

It's a popular inexpensive upgrade:

https://www.keltecweapons.com/product/pf9-1-magazine-extension/

p.s. that KelTec 9mm fires at the same rate as any AR-15.

[AMuzi]

>>>>>> for "Masse d'armes") meaning ‘large hammer’

Yes, benefit ought to be considered.

There is no benefit more valuable than having saved the
lives of his wife and daughter, secondarily his own life and
various neighbors:

https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/surprise-breaking/2022/07/11/shooter-surprise-fatal-shooting-killed-self-defense-police-say/10034340002/

First person account (2-1/2 minutes):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mA5M3BmtJZM

[Catrike Rider]

It's difficult for people with low self esteem to admit when they're
wrong.

[Catrike Rider]

Glock 17 9mm comes with 2 17rd mags. 33rd mags available.

[Tom Kunich]

My revolver has 6 shots. If you can't hit what you're aiming at with six shots you're not going to hit it with 13.

[Tom Kunich]

Frank is a communist and knows that communism cannot succeed against an armed and free society. This is what brings him to hate guns as if they were a danger to people rather than protection.

[Catrike Rider]

On Sun, 30 Oct 2022 11:01:23 -0400, Frank Krygowski

"Rapid fire" guns are illegal.

[Tom Kunich]

Large magazines have little use and cops actually fire unaimed and randomly to make an armed criminal keep his head down. If you can't hit a target with a revolver you don't know how to shoot.

[Catrike Rider]

I don't have a reason to have a hi cap magazine, although a bought a
20rd for my old boat gun, a stainless Ruger P944d just to thumb my
nose at Biden and the Democrats. The thing was already too heavy and
awkward to carry, but still the most accurate handgun for me.

I would also have an AR type gun if I owned a business open to the
public. Probably a short barreled AR9.

[Frank Krygowski]

Fine, let's compare your .38 Special revolver with an AR-15.

Same firing rate? I'll be charitable and allow that, although I really
don't believe it. (Some can get off five rounds per second with an AR. I
really doubt you can do that with your revolver.) But can your revolver
do that with 30 rounds? Can you mount a 100 round magazine? Or to put it
more practically as I have before, how many rounds can your .38 fire off
in one minute?

Then let's talk about hitting a target. There are "good guys" in TV
crime shows that can use a .38 to precisely hit the "bad guy" 100 feet
away. You and I both know that's fantasy. in real life, someone with
even 30 rounds in an AR has a far, far greater chance at wounding or
killing someone at anything beyond ten feet than someone with a "belly
gun" like the .38.

Let's move into the situations for which the AR platform was actually
designed. If you really were in a firefight, ducking and running for
cover then shooting, could you control your .38 as well as someone could
control an AR? Probably not. You don't have two handed control, you
don't have a shoulder stock.

How about accessories? Is your .38 capable of accepting a silencer
and/or flash suppressor? What sort of sights can you use to help kill
someone at a distance?

I could go on, but my point is obvious: An AR-style rifle is far more
deadly than a .38 belly gun. If that were not so, Mr. Stoner would not
have bothered with most of the design features of the AR. He would have
tried to sell the military a short barreled revolver.

And the design features of the AR are obvious to the scum that were
shooting up neighborhoods not far from me. Nobody said so, but I
guarantee the dozens of shell casings littering the streets after these
incidents were not from .38s.


--
- Frank Krygowski

[Catrike Rider]

Some are...

>What sort of sights can you use to help kill
>someone at a distance?

https://www.crimsontrace.com/products/laser-sights/

>I could go on, but my point is obvious: An AR-style rifle is far more
>deadly than a .38 belly gun.

How so?

>If that were not so, Mr. Stoner would not
>have bothered with most of the design features of the AR. He would have
>tried to sell the military a short barreled revolver.

Many other factors to consider, although many US soldiers do carry a
handgun.

>And the design features of the AR are obvious to the scum that were
>shooting up neighborhoods not far from me. Nobody said so, but I
>guarantee the dozens of shell casings littering the streets after these
>incidents were not from .38s.

What design features?

[Frank Krygowski]

Wait - you mean the perp didn't attack them with a hammer or a knife?
Instead he used a gun?

So the solution is to make sure every potential perp has easy access to
a gun??

More seriously: Yes, Andrew, you're the top specialist in finding
unusual anecdotes. I'm the guy who looks instead for data.

Houses with guns are far more likely to experience gun violence than
houses without guns. Those incidents are very likely to be family
members shooting one another or shooting themselves.

Yes, an occasional gun defense is successful. But it's rare. See
https://www.latimes.com/opinion/opinion-la/la-ol-guns-self-defense-charleston-20150619-story.html

--
- Frank Krygowski

[Frank Krygowski]

So you're having to go back almost 60 years to get an anecdote you can use.

Shall I give some more modern counterexamples, using AR style guns? How
many would you like?


--
- Frank Krygowski

[AMuzi]

Yes I agree they are different platforms with different
features. Firing rate is not one of them. Capacity is.

Notably, a revolver doesn't litter the area with evidence
(brass)!

[Catrike Rider]

On Sun, 30 Oct 2022 14:17:53 -0400, Frank Krygowski

>>>>>>>> for "Masse d'armes") meaning ‘large hammer’

Sorry, but that's the way it is. 2nd Amendment....

>More seriously: Yes, Andrew, you're the top specialist in finding
>unusual anecdotes. I'm the guy who looks instead for data.
>
>Houses with guns are far more likely to experience gun violence than
>houses without guns. Those incidents are very likely to be family
>members shooting one another or shooting themselves.

Says the guy who also says so called "assault weapons" are "rapid
fire."

>Yes, an occasional gun defense is successful. But it's rare. See
>https://www.latimes.com/opinion/opinion-la/la-ol-guns-self-defense-charleston-20150619-story.html

<LOL> at LA times opinion piece...

[AMuzi]

Today, there are over twenty million AR-15 in USA and a
relatively scant number of Remington 700, neither of which
are used in any significant number of crimes.

But to your question, yes, a Remington 700 is an effective
sniper rifle, as shown.

[Catrike Rider]

Biden told him that AR15s are very very bad.. Biden says a shotgun is
what we all ought to have, and to just fire it through the door.

"Well, you know, my shotgun will do better for you than your AR-15,
because you want to keep someone away from your house, just fire the
shotgun through the door.”

https://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2013/02/28/biden-advises-shooting-shotgun-through-door

[AMuzi]

>>>>>>>>> for "Masse d'armes") meaning ‘large hammer’

How about an actual data set?

https://datavisualizations.heritage.org/firearms/defensive-gun-uses-in-the-us/

"These cases are not based on hearsay, but on verifiable
reports found through public sources. "

"Americans use their firearms defensively between 500,000
and 3 million times each year. "

[John B.]

On Sun, 30 Oct 2022 09:44:14 -0500, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>> About precision in words: I chose my language carefully.
>> You've dug into homicides; but I was speaking of assaults.
>> (I suppose homicides are a subset, but the number of
>> homicides is far different than the number of assaults.)
>>
>> And I wasn't comparing against all types of guns. I did not
>> include handguns, shotguns, etc. I was talking specifically
>> about rifles.
>>
>> Finally, I was stating my belief. I'm aware data is scarce.
>> But I still believe AR-style rifles are used in more
>> _assaults_ than any other style _rifle_, but I'm willing to
>> look at data showing other _rifle_ styles are more
>> frequently used.
>>
>> After all, the style's design features were based on
>> effectiveness against other human beings, as opposed to
>> deer, squirrels, groundhogs etc.
>>
>
>Uh, revolvers are also designed for 'effectiveness against
>other human beings'. As are butterfly knives and nunchucks.
>

>pffft.

Frank seems to ignore the fact that, from the very first Chinese "fire
lances" or "fire arrows", firearms were developed and designed as
weapons of war.

His argument that the AR alone was designed to kill people is fatuous
at best as even the lowly .22 caliber was used as the preferred
killing weapon in the Israeli Wrath of God "program".
--
Cheers,

John B.

[AMuzi]

heh heh it's a BIG world out there. No need to choose
between AR-15 platform and .22lr!

https://thegunzone.com/best-ar-15-in-22lr/

[John B.]

On Sun, 30 Oct 2022 10:23:23 -0500, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 10/29/2022 8:01 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On 10/29/2022 6:53 PM, John B. wrote:
>>> On Sat, 29 Oct 2022 12:07:57 -0400, Frank Krygowski
>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 10/29/2022 1:25 AM, John B. wrote:
>>>>> On Fri, 28 Oct 2022 22:20:58 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
>>>>> <je...@cruzio.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, 28 Oct 2022 13:48:35 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
>>>>>> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What is an assault hammer?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's a spelling error and should be "a salt hammer",
>>>>>> which is a hammer
>>>>>> used to granulate rock salt into table salt or finer
>>>>>> popcorn salt.
>>>>>
>>>>> But why not an "assault hammer" After all, weapons that
>>>>> could well fit
>>>>> this description were used for quite a number of years
>>>>> in "assaults".
>>>>> (;-)
>>>>>
>>>>> The Middle English word "mace" comes from the French
>>>>> "masse" (short

>>>>> for "Masse d'armes") meaning ‘large hammer’

And Charles Benjamin "Chuck" Mawhinney (born 1949) is a United States
Marine who holds the Corps' record for the most confirmed sniper
kills, having recorded 103 confirmed kills and 216 probable kills in
16 months during the Vietnam War.[

As he was a Marine Corps sniper he undoubtedly used a Remington 700
rifle as that was the official sniper's weapon in the Marine Corps, in
that error.

--
Cheers,

John B.

[Catrike Rider]

On Mon, 31 Oct 2022 05:54:27 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>
wrote:

Most AR15s fire 223 Remington or 5.56 NATO which are essentially .22
caliber

[Catrike Rider]

Looks like you could pack a couple hundred rounds in those mags.. if
you could figure how to make them feed. My exprience with .22 long
rifle semis says it's jam bait. You can have my share of them.

[Frank Krygowski]

On 10/29/2022 11:02 PM, Radey Shouman wrote:

> Frank Krygowski <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> writes:
>
>> I gave a link showing other designs of hammers intended as
>> weaponry.
>>
>> Nobody should be able to confuse such a weapon hammer with a common
>> utility hammer. Just as nobody should be able to confuse an assault
>> rifle with an ordinary utility rifle. In both cases, the design
>> differences are obvious.
>

> When someone is swinging a "common utility hammer" at your head, a
> certain amount of confusion is almost inevitable.

But before that moment, anyone should be able to be able to
differentiate the types.

I suppose their may be those with a fetish for hammer weapons. And I
suppose there may be National Hammer Association promoting the idea that
hammers designed as weapons are exactly the same as carpenters' hammers.
Stranger stuff has happened.

--
- Frank Krygowski

[John B.]

Actually, I'm not so sure about firing rate either. Read up in Ed
McGivern.
Five rounds from a double-action revolver at 15 feet in 2/5 of a
second, and covering the group with his hand. Or, five shots, from 15
feet, which could be covered by a silver half-dollar piece in 45/100
of a second. and did it twice to prove it wasn't an anomaly.
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Frank Krygowski]

Yes, but: What does that have to do with the posts just above?

I said I believe AR-style rifles are used in more assaults than
any other style _rifle_.

--
- Frank Krygowski

[John B.]

>>>>>>>>>> for "Masse d'armes") meaning ‘large hammer’

Now, now, Andrew, Calm, calm. Frank isn't interested in real life
facts, like Tommy he has his preconceived notions which he presents as
"facts" and with which you are not supposed to argue.
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Catrike Rider]

On Mon, 31 Oct 2022 06:36:36 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>
wrote:

Still, only as fast as he can pull the trigger.

[Catrike Rider]

On Sun, 30 Oct 2022 19:37:56 -0400, Frank Krygowski

...and you cannot back that opinion up...

[John B.]

On Sun, 30 Oct 2022 10:55:16 -0400, Frank Krygowski

>> The data shown indicates that
>> "Assaults Weapons as % of guns" ranged from a high of 6.4% to a low of
>> 2.4% used, depending on the city being studied.
>
>I browsed that for a while. I didn't see where it compared assault-style
>rifles against other styles of rifles. If it's there, can you point it out?
>
>I do see things like "LCM [Large Capacity Magazine] firearms, which
>include AWs [Assault Weapons] as well as other
>high-capacity semiautomatics, appear to account for 22
>to 36% of crime guns in most places, with some estimates upwards of 40%
>for cases involving serious violence." Those are high percentages.
>
>Again, I think the _only_ people shooting these things in public are
>scumbags, other than the police in America who are forced to respond to
>the scumbags.

Gee, your reading capability must be flawed as if you look at Table 1
which is titled "Prevalence of assault weapons, semiautomatic rifles,
and semiautomatics with large-capacity magazines among guns recovered
by police: estimates for selected cities and years"

And look at the first column, it is labeled "Assault weapons
as % of guns"

But, I guess that you must have missed that.... after all it does
rather tend to illustrate that in spite of your fevered ranting about
"AR (Assault Rifle) shootings that they are actually very rarely used
in actual fact.

But then, like Tommy, you do seem rather reluctant to face reality
when it contradicts your fanciful notions.

Rather like your stories about the terrifying black pickups.

The Ford F series pickup is the most sold motor vehicle in the U.S., I
believe,
https://www.forbes.com/wheels/news/best-selling-cars-suvs-pickups-2021/
and apparently black is the most popular color
https://www.autoevolution.com/news/study-most-popular-car-color-is-black-black-ford-f-150-is-leading-the-ranking-100171.html
so there must be literally thousands of black pickups on U.S. roads,
It is amazing that you dare to even be on the roads with all those
dangerious vehicles.

And now, I expect, you will argue that "I didn't say that", or "you
forgot the comma in that sentence", or "post a reference", or perhaps,
in extreme even fall back on insults and threats, as Tommy does.

--
Cheers,

John B.

[AMuzi]

In the same way that some obsess over caliber or laser
sights or scary looking firearm 'furniture', in practice
it's all just blather. Any hammer will do.

https://nypost.com/2022/02/25/woman-bludgeoned-with-hammer-robbed-in-nyc-train-station/

[Frank Krygowski]

On 10/30/2022 4:54 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 30 Oct 2022 14:17:53 -0400, Frank Krygowski
>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Houses with guns are far more likely to experience gun violence than
>>> houses without guns. Those incidents are very likely to be family
>>> members shooting one another or shooting themselves.
>>

>>> Yes, an occasional gun defense is successful. But it's rare. See
>>>
https://www.latimes.com/opinion/opinion-la/la-ol-guns-self-defense-charleston-20150619-story.html
>

> How about an actual data set?
>
>
https://datavisualizations.heritage.org/firearms/defensive-gun-uses-in-the-us/
>
> "These cases are not based on hearsay, but on verifiable reports found
> through public sources. "

At the site you linked, I clicked on one year (2020) and found 675
incidents. That's quite a bit different from this claim:

> "Americans use their firearms defensively between 500,000 and 3
million times each year. "

Did the "public sources" somehow miss 99.99% of the incidents? Really?

And I also note the huge uncertainty in those numbers.

Elsewhere, I read "In 2015 there were 259 "justifiable gun-related
homicides" in the United States. These are the best possible outcomes
for people protecting themselves. However, there were 20,666 suicides
and 548 fatal unintentional shootings the same year. These are weapons
whose purposes were not to harm the innocent. Most owners purchased
these weapons for protection."

https://www.tbotech.com/disadvantages-home-defense-gun.htm

And there have been quite a few studies showing that people who live in
homes with guns have a much higher risk of dying by gunfire. See
https://time.com/6183881/gun-ownership-risks-at-home/

From that: " Most notably, people living with handgun owners were seven
times more likely to be shot by their spouse or intimate partner. In
many of these cases, instead of being protective, the household gun
probably operated as the instrument of death."

and: "Study findings in one other area were noteworthy: homicides
perpetrated by strangers. Homicides of this kind were relatively
uncommon in our study population—much less common than deaths
perpetrated by the victim’s partner, family members, or friends. But
when they happened, people living with gun owners did not experience
them less often than people in gun-free homes."

There are others, for example
https://www.thetrace.org/2020/04/gun-safety-research-coronavirus-gun-sales/

--
- Frank Krygowski

[AMuzi]

Not an anomaly for him, but I can't do that.

IME (sample of 1) my AR-15 shoots at the same maximum rate
as my .38 revolver. (Both of which were faster before my
2021 hand injuries.)

I commonly finish a target session with a rapid series which
is a slightly different training than careful aim and a
skill of its own.

[AMuzi]

On 10/30/2022 6:37 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 10/30/2022 1:05 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 10/30/2022 9:55 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>> On 10/29/2022 9:47 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 29 Oct 2022 20:37:22 -0400, Frank Krygowski
>>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 10/29/2022 5:18 PM, Tim R wrote:
>>>>>> On Friday, October 28, 2022 at 11:09:22 PM UTC-4,
>>>>>> frkr...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>> I believe it's the type of rifle most often used in
>>>>>>> assault. Doesn't that justify the
>>>>>>> term?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Most often used in assault?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't have any particular love for that category of
>>>>>> tool, but I do value precision in words a little bit.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Most often used" is pretty sloppy language, and not
>>>>>> well supported by any data.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you mean the weapon most often used in homicides,

>>>>>> you'd be wrong, at least in the US. Depending on what

>>>>>> year you pull data from, assault style rifles are a

>>>>>> small percentage of homicides. The FBI doesn't

>>>>>> distinguish between models of rifles, but on average
>>>>>> there are about 340 rifle murders per year, out of

>>>>>> 14,000 gun homicides. I've found data showing less than
>>>>>> 0.25%, but these numbers look like 2.4% for all kinds

>>>>>> of rifles.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But maybe you mean the rifles themselves are most often
>>>>>> used for an assault, rather than some other purpose?

>>>>>> Hm. There are around 20 million AR15s in the US, and we
>>>>>> have 340 rifle murders per year. Well, that's probably
>>>>>> more than Europe has per decade, but still. Clearly
>>>>>> hardly any ARs are misused. Those dang thutty thutties,

Entirely probable as there are more AR-15 in USA than any
other rifle. By a lot.

(in some countries, I'd bet that same phenomenon presents as
AK-47 and AK-74 type rifles.)

[Frank Krygowski]

It would be better to read up on Andrew Muzi. Re-read above, please. I
said I doubt that _he_ could do five rounds in one second with his .38
Special. I wasn't talking about just anyone in the world.

--
- Frank Krygowski

[Frank Krygowski]

On 10/30/2022 6:54 PM, John B. wrote:
>
>
> Frank seems to ignore the fact that, from the very first Chinese "fire
> lances" or "fire arrows", firearms were developed and designed as
> weapons of war.
>
> His argument that the AR alone was designed to kill people is fatuous

> at best...

Come on, John, you're descending to the level of Tom Kunich.

I never once said or implied that the AR _alone_ was designed to kill
people. In fact, I'd bet nobody has ever said that.

But as I tell Tom from time to time, you're free to prove me wrong. Give
a direct quote and a link to my post where I said that.

When you've got to resort to outrageous lies as Straw Man arguments,
it's time to rethink your position. It shows your position is extremely
weak.

--
- Frank Krygowski

[Frank Krygowski]

I don't doubt that it's an effective sniper tool. It's also a really
useful hunting rifle. Unlike ARs, it's almost never been used in mass
shootings.

But ARs or their rapid fire kin seem to be used in significant numbers
of crimes just in my area, let alone across the U.S.. Remington 700s are
not.

--
- Frank Krygowski

[Frank Krygowski]

I forget the number of annual mass murders by hammer. Apparently hammers
have been addressed, but not in mass murders.

Relevant:
https://www.newsweek.com/good-liars-nra-hammers-gun-violence-death-viral-video-1711952

--
- Frank Krygowski

[John B.]

I believe that even baseball bats have been used (:-)

And perhaps hockey sticks and certainly walking sticks, in past years,
not to mention butcher's knives, wood saws (St. Tarbula), axes,
hatchets, tire irons and even hands and feet.

It really is a dangerious world out there (:-)

--
Cheers,

John B.

[Frank Krygowski]

John, would you PLEASE read the sentence of mine that you're trying to
rebut?

Again, here is what I said: "I still believe AR-style rifles are used in
more assaults than any other style rifle."

That is NOT a claim that AR-style rifles are used in a majority of crimes.

Really, how do you not understand the difference in those statements??

If you want to show that other types of rifles are used in more assaults
than ARs, here's what you have to do:

1) Find the number of times non-AR _rifles_ are used in assaults.

2) Find the number of times AR rifles are used in assaults.

3) Compare the two.

4) Don't change the subject or switch the goalposts.

I can't make it any clearer than that.


--
- Frank Krygowski