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Which Glue for Velcro Repair
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Arthur Shapiro
Sep 19, 2011, 3:14:56 PM9/19/11
to
One of the couple-inch pieces of Velcro (or whatever) pulled off the one of
the two leather tightening straps on a Sidi shoe. It's a standard Sidi model
with one ratcheting strap and two Velcro straps on each shoe.
Anyone saavy enough to know the recommended adhesive for this application.
I would guess the two criteria are flexible and reasonably strong.
Art
the two leather tightening straps on a Sidi shoe. It's a standard Sidi model
with one ratcheting strap and two Velcro straps on each shoe.
Anyone saavy enough to know the recommended adhesive for this application.
I would guess the two criteria are flexible and reasonably strong.
Art
AMuzi
Sep 19, 2011, 3:30:34 PM9/19/11
to
Find a competent (white hair, Italian) shoemaker.
--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
landotter
Sep 19, 2011, 3:44:44 PM9/19/11
to
disagree with the nationality, I've had great luck with Germans as
well. Shoe Goo also works, but it will take a while to set up and off
gasses for a week r so.
Arthur Shapiro
Sep 19, 2011, 4:13:38 PM9/19/11
to
In article <d26353d6-2ae1-4359...@eb1g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>, landotter <land...@gmail.com> wrote:
>As Andrew wisely suggests, a cobbler can stitch it on right.
Thanks, folks. I'll point out that it wasn't stiched on in the first place
>As Andrew wisely suggests, a cobbler can stitch it on right.
(somewhat surprising) which is why I figured that some sort of adhesive might
be sufficient. The shoes are at least 7 years old, look a little ratty, but
are still performing well.
I'll Google for Italian or German shoemakers within 20 miles of here!
Art
DirtRoadie
Sep 19, 2011, 5:33:45 PM9/19/11
to
repair.They are both stronger than "Goop" but require some patience
and finesse (appropriate clamping) to utilize effectively. .
DR
kolldata
Sep 19, 2011, 9:12:54 PM9/19/11
to
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Jeff Liebermann
Sep 20, 2011, 2:04:30 AM9/20/11
to
even if it wasn't originally sewn. The reason is that if you screw it
up, you can just rip up the stitching and try again. Glue doesn't
offer a 2nd chance.
Don't try to sew on the Velcro after you've glued it in place. The
glue gums up the needle which makes it very difficult to penetrate the
leather. If you want to make the thread invisible, try using fishing
line.
Velcro sells various adhesives:
<http://www.velcro.com/uploads/pdf/B_Adhesive_Guide.pdf>
I suspect that Sidi used one of the major types (ultrasonic, MEK
activated, heat activated, or pressure sensitive). I can't tell from
here which one was used.
I suggest you use contact cement. Smear a thin coat on the strap and
the velcro. Wait until the glue becomes dull. Press together. Do it
carefully as you don't get a 2nd chance with contact cement.
If you decide to experiment, be sure to check the glue for flexibility
after it hardens. Anything that dries hard (cyanoacrylate, epoxy,
urethane, etc) isn't going to work on leather.
If all this is too much work, just staple the Velcro back onto the
leather strap.
You may also want to inspect and possibly do the same thing(s) to the
other shoe.
--
Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
DirtRoadie
Sep 20, 2011, 10:02:31 AM9/20/11
to
On Sep 20, 12:04 am, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com> wrote:
>... Anything that dries hard (cyanoacrylate, epoxy,
epoxies).
But having regularly used various urethanes for precisely the purpose
in question, I disagree with their inclusion in your characterization.
Aquaseal and Freesole are urethanes that are excellent for the task.
AFAIK they are non solvent based and cure to a suitably flexible
material (especially in a relatively thin film), with strong adhesion
and physical strength. They appear to be the same material.
Gorilla Glue (and it variants under other brand names) also works but
is less reliable and somewhat problematic due to its foaming
characteristic when curing which can limit its physical strength when
filling even small gaps.
DR
>... Anything that dries hard (cyanoacrylate, epoxy,
> urethane, etc) isn't going to work on leather.
I agree regarding cyanoacrylate or epoxy (at least most hardware store
epoxies).
But having regularly used various urethanes for precisely the purpose
in question, I disagree with their inclusion in your characterization.
Aquaseal and Freesole are urethanes that are excellent for the task.
AFAIK they are non solvent based and cure to a suitably flexible
material (especially in a relatively thin film), with strong adhesion
and physical strength. They appear to be the same material.
Gorilla Glue (and it variants under other brand names) also works but
is less reliable and somewhat problematic due to its foaming
characteristic when curing which can limit its physical strength when
filling even small gaps.
DR
thirty-six
Sep 20, 2011, 11:05:35 AM9/20/11
to
On Sep 19, 9:13 pm, art.shap...@unisys.com (Arthur Shapiro) wrote:
sewing awl and could do the job for a few pints or a meal.
> In article <d26353d6-2ae1-4359-880f-8a340835e...@eb1g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>, landotter <landot...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >As Andrew wisely suggests, a cobbler can stitch it on right.
>
> Thanks, folks. I'll point out that it wasn't stiched on in the first place
> (somewhat surprising) which is why I figured that some sort of adhesive might
> be sufficient. The shoes are at least 7 years old, look a little ratty, but
> are still performing well.
>
> I'll Google for Italian or German shoemakers within 20 miles of here!
>
> Art
Anybody who repairs their own tubular tyres should have their own
>
> >As Andrew wisely suggests, a cobbler can stitch it on right.
>
> Thanks, folks. I'll point out that it wasn't stiched on in the first place
> (somewhat surprising) which is why I figured that some sort of adhesive might
> be sufficient. The shoes are at least 7 years old, look a little ratty, but
> are still performing well.
>
> I'll Google for Italian or German shoemakers within 20 miles of here!
>
> Art
sewing awl and could do the job for a few pints or a meal.
Jay Beattie
Sep 20, 2011, 11:35:59 AM9/20/11
to
On Sep 19, 11:04 pm, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 19 Sep 2011 19:14:56 GMT, art.shap...@unisys.com (Arthur
Our local Sidi strap repair joint sews and glues -- and it ain't
cheap, $8 per section of hook or loop, which I understand to mean that
it would cost $16 per strap, for both shoe and strap sides.
http://www.mtnsoles.com/?page_id=14 The place has got kind of a cult
following, and does a lot of cycling shoe repair. Considering the
waiting time, I assume its good. I think I would look around for some
other joint that has less of a cult following and less of a waiting
time. I have some old Specialized shoes that I was going to refurbish
for my son, but I'm not sure if I want to spend $64 on them -- but I
guess it beats the option of buying new.
-- Jay Beattie.
> On Mon, 19 Sep 2011 19:14:56 GMT, art.shap...@unisys.com (Arthur
cheap, $8 per section of hook or loop, which I understand to mean that
it would cost $16 per strap, for both shoe and strap sides.
http://www.mtnsoles.com/?page_id=14 The place has got kind of a cult
following, and does a lot of cycling shoe repair. Considering the
waiting time, I assume its good. I think I would look around for some
other joint that has less of a cult following and less of a waiting
time. I have some old Specialized shoes that I was going to refurbish
for my son, but I'm not sure if I want to spend $64 on them -- but I
guess it beats the option of buying new.
-- Jay Beattie.
Arthur Shapiro
Sep 20, 2011, 12:18:51 PM9/20/11
to
In article <70d92ec8-4e13-412d...@a7g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>, DirtRoadie <DirtR...@aol.com> wrote:
>Aquaseal and Freesole are urethanes that are excellent for the task.
I looked on the web to find out about these products. Freesole seemed to be a
legitimate adhesive, but all the Aquaseal products seemed to be just that - a
leather sealer / conditioner. I didn't spot anything that seemed to be an
adhesive product, at least from the product list on their site.
My quite talented housekeeper said she would sew on the piece, so that may be
even easier than the European cobbler or looking for one of the above
products.
Art
DirtRoadie
Sep 20, 2011, 12:30:57 PM9/20/11
to
On Sep 20, 10:18 am, art.shap...@unisys.com (Arthur Shapiro) wrote:
You found this:
http://www.aquaseal.com/
But the "Aquaseal I was referring to is this one:
http://www.mcnett.com/Aquaseal-Urethane-Repair-Adhesive-Sealant-P61.aspx
Same stuff as "Freesole"
> My quite talented housekeeper said she would sew on the piece, so that may be
> even easier than the European cobbler or looking for one of the above
> products.
That'll certainly work.
DR
> In article <70d92ec8-4e13-412d-9e4f-43d9319de...@a7g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>, DirtRoadie <DirtRoa...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> >Aquaseal and Freesole are urethanes that are excellent for the task.
>
> I looked on the web to find out about these products. Freesole seemed to be a
> legitimate adhesive, but all the Aquaseal products seemed to be just that - a
> leather sealer / conditioner. I didn't spot anything that seemed to be an
> adhesive product, at least from the product list on their site.
Ah yes I see the basis for the confusion.
>
> >Aquaseal and Freesole are urethanes that are excellent for the task.
>
> I looked on the web to find out about these products. Freesole seemed to be a
> legitimate adhesive, but all the Aquaseal products seemed to be just that - a
> leather sealer / conditioner. I didn't spot anything that seemed to be an
> adhesive product, at least from the product list on their site.
You found this:
http://www.aquaseal.com/
But the "Aquaseal I was referring to is this one:
http://www.mcnett.com/Aquaseal-Urethane-Repair-Adhesive-Sealant-P61.aspx
Same stuff as "Freesole"
> My quite talented housekeeper said she would sew on the piece, so that may be
> even easier than the European cobbler or looking for one of the above
> products.
DR
kolldata
Sep 20, 2011, 12:51:24 PM9/20/11
to
Jeff Liebermann
Sep 20, 2011, 1:09:20 PM9/20/11
to
On Tue, 20 Sep 2011 07:02:31 -0700 (PDT), DirtRoadie
<DirtR...@aol.com> wrote:
>But having regularly used various urethanes for precisely the purpose
>in question, I disagree with their inclusion in your characterization.
>Aquaseal and Freesole are urethanes that are excellent for the task.
>AFAIK they are non solvent based and cure to a suitably flexible
>material (especially in a relatively thin film), with strong adhesion
>and physical strength. They appear to be the same material.
Leather shoes, that are waterproofed and UV proofed with an acrylic
<DirtR...@aol.com> wrote:
>But having regularly used various urethanes for precisely the purpose
>in question, I disagree with their inclusion in your characterization.
>Aquaseal and Freesole are urethanes that are excellent for the task.
>AFAIK they are non solvent based and cure to a suitably flexible
>material (especially in a relatively thin film), with strong adhesion
>and physical strength. They appear to be the same material.
coating, tend to peel. No matter what adhesive is used, pulling on
the Velcro in shear or peel might cause the joint to fall apart at the
leather coating. I've seen this happen with leather athletic shoes
and suspect it may also happen with Sidi shoes. I don't own a pair,
so I can't check. If the adhesive can bond to raw leather (or you're
willing to sandpaper the surface), then glue should be fine. If the
adhesive is sitting on top of a cosmetic surface, it might peel. This
is the reason why sewing is preferred to glue.
>Gorilla Glue (and it variants under other brand names) also works but
>is less reliable and somewhat problematic due to its foaming
>characteristic when curing which can limit its physical strength when
>filling even small gaps.
>
>DR
tend to dry somewhat hard and stiff. Others are more flexible. I've
had a few Gorilla Glue joints to flexy plastic parts crack when bent
and therefore suspected it would be inappropriate for a flexible
leather strap. Gorilla Glue is certainly more flexible than epoxy or
acrylics, and might be worth a try on some scrap leather before
attempting the actual shoe.
It might be useful to check what leather workers use for glue:
<http://www.tandyleatherfactory.com/en-usd/home/department/Leather-Cement-Glue/Leather-Cement-Glue.aspx>
Looks like rubber cement, contact cement, and barge cement.
Drivel: Nobody suggested using duct tape?
Peter Cole
Sep 20, 2011, 3:41:33 PM9/20/11
to
sew Velcro/leather, I'd guess most are. If the original is sewn (mine
are), you may be able to hand sew using the original holes, otherwise
you can make small holes with an awl, or even work a heavy needle by
hand with a block. I use a "sewing awl" to do heavy duty sewing:
http://www.sailrite.com/Speedy-Stitcher-Sewing-Awl-Kit
Check out the video. Handy thing to have for a variety of tasks.
Message has been deleted
Jeff Liebermann
Sep 20, 2011, 4:05:26 PM9/20/11
to
On Tue, 20 Sep 2011 15:41:33 -0400, Peter Cole
<peter...@verizon.net> wrote:
>I agree that sewing is the way to go. My machine is heavy duty enough to
>sew Velcro/leather, I'd guess most are. If the original is sewn (mine
>are), you may be able to hand sew using the original holes, otherwise
>you can make small holes with an awl, or even work a heavy needle by
>hand with a block. I use a "sewing awl" to do heavy duty sewing:
>
>http://www.sailrite.com/Speedy-Stitcher-Sewing-Awl-Kit
>
>Check out the video. Handy thing to have for a variety of tasks.
How to sew leather with a sewing machine:
<peter...@verizon.net> wrote:
>I agree that sewing is the way to go. My machine is heavy duty enough to
>sew Velcro/leather, I'd guess most are. If the original is sewn (mine
>are), you may be able to hand sew using the original holes, otherwise
>you can make small holes with an awl, or even work a heavy needle by
>hand with a block. I use a "sewing awl" to do heavy duty sewing:
>
>http://www.sailrite.com/Speedy-Stitcher-Sewing-Awl-Kit
>
>Check out the video. Handy thing to have for a variety of tasks.
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OchzEuXBAHg>
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjhcrHTa4V4>
Use a 110/18 or 120/19 (EU/US) chisel point needle. I use non-sterile
nylon suture thread. I forgot what size thread. Go really slow and
space the thread loops widely as it will tear if the holes are too
close together. Play with the tension adjustment.
Awls are great for really heavy threads, but not so great if you need
small holes and small diameter thread. If you make a large hole, and
use too small a thread, the thread might cut into the leather causing
it to lose tension, and become slack.
Jeff Liebermann
Sep 20, 2011, 4:16:10 PM9/20/11
to
On Mon, 19 Sep 2011 18:12:54 -0700 (PDT), kolldata
<data...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>3M IS TERRIFIC. BUTBUBTUT GLUE THEN STICH IN THE AREA NOT GLUED OR
>THRU THE GLUE YOUR CHOICE.
Bad idea. Sewing through glue will gum up the needle, add friction as
<data...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>3M IS TERRIFIC. BUTBUBTUT GLUE THEN STICH IN THE AREA NOT GLUED OR
>THRU THE GLUE YOUR CHOICE.
it goes through the leather, and probably do something disgusting to
the shoe.
>WITH SHOES USE A WOODEN SHOE UHHHH WHAT ARE
>WOODEN SHOE FORMS CALLED ????
<http://www.google.com/search?q=shoe+expander&tbm=isch>
Also see "foot-in-mouth disease".
AMuzi
Sep 20, 2011, 7:40:39 PM9/20/11
to
Art Shapiro
Sep 20, 2011, 9:50:21 PM9/20/11
to
On 9/20/2011 4:40 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> SiDis haven't been leather for 15+ years now.
Right - when I got home she had already glued it with some sort of
> SiDis haven't been leather for 15+ years now.
Gorilla product that I think was just a cyano super-glue equivalent; it
definitely wasn't the foamy stuff. I was going to tell her to hold off
while I found a source for Freesole. (Their site's dealer locator
wasn't working when I tried it earlier.)
She said it appeared to be rubber, not leather. Then she stiched it
loosely with some sort of filament. I'm not wild about superglue in
this application, but she said it was mostly to hold things together
during the sewing process.
So we'll see if this repair holds. If not, I'll start with the Freesole
before searching out the professional cobbler.
Art
Jeff Liebermann
Sep 20, 2011, 11:50:22 PM9/20/11
to
On Tue, 20 Sep 2011 18:40:39 -0500, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>SiDis haven't been leather for 15+ years now.
Sorry(tm). I don't own any Sidi shoes.
>SiDis haven't been leather for 15+ years now.
It's made from Lorica, also known as urethane and polyamide artificial
leather. The new shiny stuff is called vernice, but is also Lorica
under the surface. The material comes from Japan, but is softened,
dyed, and finished in Italy:
<http://www.loricasud.com>
I believe that the same precautions for sewing leather also apply to
the artificial leather Lorica material.
--
# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
# 831-336-2558
# http://802.11junk.com je...@cruzio.com
# http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS
Peter Cole
Sep 21, 2011, 9:23:28 AM9/21/11
to
On 9/20/2011 4:05 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Tue, 20 Sep 2011 15:41:33 -0400, Peter Cole
> <peter...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>> I agree that sewing is the way to go. My machine is heavy duty enough to
>> sew Velcro/leather, I'd guess most are. If the original is sewn (mine
>> are), you may be able to hand sew using the original holes, otherwise
>> you can make small holes with an awl, or even work a heavy needle by
>> hand with a block. I use a "sewing awl" to do heavy duty sewing:
>>
>> http://www.sailrite.com/Speedy-Stitcher-Sewing-Awl-Kit
>>
>> Check out the video. Handy thing to have for a variety of tasks.
>
> How to sew leather with a sewing machine:
> <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OchzEuXBAHg>
> <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjhcrHTa4V4>
> Use a 110/18 or 120/19 (EU/US) chisel point needle.
Depends on type of leather (thickness, etc.). It's actually not
> On Tue, 20 Sep 2011 15:41:33 -0400, Peter Cole
> <peter...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>> I agree that sewing is the way to go. My machine is heavy duty enough to
>> sew Velcro/leather, I'd guess most are. If the original is sewn (mine
>> are), you may be able to hand sew using the original holes, otherwise
>> you can make small holes with an awl, or even work a heavy needle by
>> hand with a block. I use a "sewing awl" to do heavy duty sewing:
>>
>> http://www.sailrite.com/Speedy-Stitcher-Sewing-Awl-Kit
>>
>> Check out the video. Handy thing to have for a variety of tasks.
>
> How to sew leather with a sewing machine:
> <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OchzEuXBAHg>
> <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjhcrHTa4V4>
> Use a 110/18 or 120/19 (EU/US) chisel point needle.
recommended to use a chisel point on synthetic leather -- which is
likely what the OP has.
> I use non-sterile
> nylon suture thread.
> I forgot what size thread.
shoes, V-69 would be fine.
> Go really slow and
> space the thread loops widely as it will tear if the holes are too
> close together. Play with the tension adjustment.
Tension should always be set for smooth stitching.
Machine sewing synthetic leather can use pretty much a standard size and
point machine needle with moderately heavy (medium, e.g. V-69) thread.
I've sewn a lot of Naugahyde.
It's worth the time and trouble to use the right thread and needle for
big jobs, but for dinky ones like this it really doesn't matter. I sewed
up a 10'x10' canvas last month with a mismatched needle and thread (#16
& V-92) without much trouble, and it survived our recent hurricane.
> Awls are great for really heavy threads, but not so great if you need
> small holes and small diameter thread. If you make a large hole, and
> use too small a thread, the thread might cut into the leather causing
> it to lose tension, and become slack.
sewing is often that you can't get at the seam with a machine presser
foot, so you're left with some form of hand sewing. You can simply use a
needle and thread, but forcing the needle through stiff or thick
material may be more than you can comfortably do with a thimble. You can
buy a sailor's palm, but those are a bit expensive for only occasional
use. A stitching awl, like the one I linked to, is a reasonable
compromise. For $15 you get a tool that, while the needle may be on the
large side for fine work, still lets you do a variety of repairs. I've
used mine for attaching webbing and Velcro, good for things like
backpacks and panniers. Handy for sailors, handy for cyclists.
Peter Cole
Sep 21, 2011, 9:32:25 AM9/21/11
to
of flex, and the materials aren't glue friendly -- even if they were new
and clean. My Sidi's have both the hook and loop on one continuous
piece, which passes through a ring/eye/buckle thing and doubles back on
itself to fasten. The end of the piece is stitched to a little (syn)
leather tongue. I'd stick with the original stitching approach if yours
are made the same way. It's common to stick/glue things together before
sewing, but I wouldn't count on glue alone.
Jeff Liebermann
Sep 22, 2011, 1:03:07 PM9/22/11
to
On Wed, 21 Sep 2011 09:23:28 -0400, Peter Cole
<peter...@verizon.net> wrote:
<peter...@verizon.net> wrote:
>On 9/20/2011 4:05 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>> Use a 110/18 or 120/19 (EU/US) chisel point needle.
>
>Depends on type of leather (thickness, etc.). It's actually not
>recommended to use a chisel point on synthetic leather -- which is
>likely what the OP has.
Thanks. I didn't know that. I've never tried sewing Lorica fake
leather. What little leather work I've done on a home sewing machine
was heavy leather, which require a chisel point to penetrate.
>> I use non-sterile
>> nylon suture thread.
>
>Pretty exotic. I just use bonded poly thread.
I inherited a case of suture thread about 20 years ago, and have yet
to hit bottom. Fortunately, it's not dissolving suture, which was
somewhat entertaining when I tried washing the jeans.
Background: My father owned a lingerie factory in Smog Angeles for
about 30 years. I learned industrial machine repair, adjustment, and
attachment making. I never could sew very well. Lately, I've been
working with home computer embroidery, which is slowly turning into a
sewing machine repair/adjustment biz.
>A big needle can use V-92, for thin synthetic leather, like that on bike
>shoes, V-69 would be fine.
Yep. When I had a Hobbie Cat 14, I used a 110/18 needle and V-92 for
sail repair. V-92 might be a bit heavy for Velcro.
>Synthetic leather isn't much different than sewing normal fabric.
>Tension should always be set for smooth stitching.
Fake leather for shoes has to breathe. That means open cell foam
which isn't terribly strong in shear. I worry about a loose thread
"sawing" its way through the material, causing other threads to
loosen, which is probably what originally caused the Velcro to detach.
I aim for symmetrical tension and moderate tension.
>Machine sewing synthetic leather can use pretty much a standard size and
>point machine needle with moderately heavy (medium, e.g. V-69) thread.
>I've sewn a lot of Naugahyde.
With the fabric backing (and PVC coating), Naugahyde is more like
cloth than leather. With what little I've done with it (automobile
upholstery repair), it seems to be rather thin compared to real
leather. No chisel point required.
>The trouble with repair
>sewing is often that you can't get at the seam with a machine presser
>foot, so you're left with some form of hand sewing.
I have a box of feet for various styles. For the Velcro hook side,
sewing along the unhooked edge is tricky. It's very narrow and
pushing down on the hooks causes some hooks to end up under the
stitching. So, I have a very narrow foot with a step to guide the
Velcro edge on the bottom. It's also useful for zippers.
For the shoe strap Velcro fix, the stitching will never be seen in
public, so cross stitching across the Velcro pad is perfectly
acceptable. It won't look pretty, but it's much easier than trying to
stitch along the edge. It will need as much support in the middle of
the Velcro as possible to prevent detaching when pulled perpendicular
to the Velcro.
Most of what little sewing I attempt is repair work. I probably spend
more time setting up the machine than actually doing the sewing. As
you mentioned, access is a major problem. I've ripped seams to get
access, do the repair, and then sew the seams back. Not recommended
for the shoe repair.
>You can simply use a
>needle and thread, but forcing the needle through stiff or thick
>material may be more than you can comfortably do with a thimble. You can
>buy a sailor's palm, but those are a bit expensive for only occasional
>use. A stitching awl, like the one I linked to, is a reasonable
>compromise. For $15 you get a tool that, while the needle may be on the
>large side for fine work, still lets you do a variety of repairs. I've
>used mine for attaching webbing and Velcro, good for things like
>backpacks and panniers. Handy for sailors, handy for cyclists.
Agreed. I have a sailors palm and a home made thimble with a concave
end for big needles. For leather, I like to pre-punch the holes with
a needle stuffed into a non-rotating drill press (used as a punch
press). That's much easier than brute forcing a needle with a palm or
thimble. I also have a Speedy Stitcher awl (with the stock coarse
thread) but I must admit that I don't use it often. It was most handy
for patching the UV embrittled Hobbie Cat trampoline while on the
beach without having to remove the lacing.
David Scheidt
Sep 22, 2011, 5:58:56 PM9/22/11
to
Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com> wrote:
:On Wed, 21 Sep 2011 09:23:28 -0400, Peter Cole
make excessively large holes in thinner stock.
:With the fabric backing (and PVC coating), Naugahyde is more like
:Most of what little sewing I attempt is repair work. I probably spend
used the same holes, of course.
--
sig 24
:On Wed, 21 Sep 2011 09:23:28 -0400, Peter Cole
:<peter...@verizon.net> wrote:
:>On 9/20/2011 4:05 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
:>> Use a 110/18 or 120/19 (EU/US) chisel point needle.
:>
:>Depends on type of leather (thickness, etc.). It's actually not
:>recommended to use a chisel point on synthetic leather -- which is
:>likely what the OP has.
:Thanks. I didn't know that. I've never tried sewing Lorica fake
:leather. What little leather work I've done on a home sewing machine
:was heavy leather, which require a chisel point to penetrate.
:>> I use non-sterile
:>> nylon suture thread.
:>
:>Pretty exotic. I just use bonded poly thread.
:I inherited a case of suture thread about 20 years ago, and have yet
:to hit bottom. Fortunately, it's not dissolving suture, which was
:somewhat entertaining when I tried washing the jeans.
Quite a lot of leather is sewn with a plain needle. Chisel points
:>On 9/20/2011 4:05 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
:>> Use a 110/18 or 120/19 (EU/US) chisel point needle.
:>
:>Depends on type of leather (thickness, etc.). It's actually not
:>recommended to use a chisel point on synthetic leather -- which is
:>likely what the OP has.
:Thanks. I didn't know that. I've never tried sewing Lorica fake
:leather. What little leather work I've done on a home sewing machine
:was heavy leather, which require a chisel point to penetrate.
:>> I use non-sterile
:>> nylon suture thread.
:>
:>Pretty exotic. I just use bonded poly thread.
:I inherited a case of suture thread about 20 years ago, and have yet
:to hit bottom. Fortunately, it's not dissolving suture, which was
:somewhat entertaining when I tried washing the jeans.
make excessively large holes in thinner stock.
:With the fabric backing (and PVC coating), Naugahyde is more like
:cloth than leather. With what little I've done with it (automobile
:upholstery repair), it seems to be rather thin compared to real
:leather. No chisel point required.
Real leather is availabe from paper thin to about 1/2" or so.
:upholstery repair), it seems to be rather thin compared to real
:leather. No chisel point required.
:Most of what little sewing I attempt is repair work. I probably spend
:more time setting up the machine than actually doing the sewing. As
:you mentioned, access is a major problem. I've ripped seams to get
:access, do the repair, and then sew the seams back. Not recommended
:for the shoe repair.
That's what the guy who fixed the last pair of shoes for me did. He
:you mentioned, access is a major problem. I've ripped seams to get
:access, do the repair, and then sew the seams back. Not recommended
:for the shoe repair.
used the same holes, of course.
--
sig 24
Phil Brown
Sep 26, 2011, 2:47:43 PM9/26/11
to
Barge Cement.
Phil Brown
Phil Brown
kolldata
Sep 29, 2011, 3:32:46 PM9/29/11
to
On Sep 22, 10:03 am, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 21 Sep 2011 09:23:28 -0400, Peter Cole
>
> On Wed, 21 Sep 2011 09:23:28 -0400, Peter Cole
>
> Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
possible to grind an awl not a sewing awl hook but lika flat blade
screw driver with blade ground to a point-size to needle.
doping the hole with glue then reholing is possible.
sewing palm ? try a small piece plywood fitting palm for location then
rap it once with the 11 pound hammer.
epoxy formulated for the spec material then awl sewing is tight tight
tight.
using a machine for a small velcro reattachment is kinda seige gun/
gnat work.
see here Graingers with an excellent search device
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/glues-and-cements/adhesives-sealants-and-tape/ecatalog/N-84p/Ntt-cement
the Weldwood at top maybe the nylon glue mentioned
kolldata
Sep 29, 2011, 3:33:40 PM9/29/11
to
On Sep 26, 11:47 am, Phil Brown <philcyc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Barge Cement.
> Phil Brown
does Barge own their refinery or where does Barge buy its cement ?
> Barge Cement.
> Phil Brown
does Barge own their refinery or where does Barge buy its cement ?
kolldata
Sep 29, 2011, 3:34:36 PM9/29/11
to
> > Looks like rubber cement, contact cement, and barge cement.
>
> > Drivel: Nobody suggested using duct tape?
>
> SiDis haven't been leather for 15+ years now.
>
> --
> Andrew Muzi
> <www.yellowjersey.org/>
> Open every day since 1 April, 1971- Hide quoted text -
>
> > Drivel: Nobody suggested using duct tape?
>
> SiDis haven't been leather for 15+ years now.
>
> --
> Andrew Muzi
> <www.yellowjersey.org/>
>
> - Show quoted text -
leather's whale oil.
kolldata
Sep 29, 2011, 4:12:08 PM9/29/11
to
>
> the Weldwood at top maybe the nylon glue mentioned- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
CHECK THE SUBSTANTIAL DIFFERECES
> - Show quoted text -
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/glues-and-cements/adhesives-sealants-and-tape/ecatalog/N-84pZ1z0r597/Ntt-cement
Jeff Liebermann
Sep 30, 2011, 2:15:10 AM9/30/11
to
On Thu, 29 Sep 2011 12:32:46 -0700 (PDT), kolldata
<data...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>possible to grind an awl not a sewing awl hook but lika flat blade
>screw driver with blade ground to a point-size to needle.
>
>doping the hole with glue then reholing is possible.
Grinding will probably break through the thread hole. Plugging the
<data...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>possible to grind an awl not a sewing awl hook but lika flat blade
>screw driver with blade ground to a point-size to needle.
>
>doping the hole with glue then reholing is possible.
hole with whatever makes it useless for pushing through the thread,
which is the whole idea behind the awl. Were it not for the thread, I
would be punching holes in the leather with a drill press.
>sewing palm ? try a small piece plywood fitting palm for location then
>rap it once with the 11 pound hammer.
quarter size piece of leather inserted on top of the cork seal. The
flange or ridge around the edge is important. If the needle slips,
you want it to hit the ridge, not your palm. That's also the purpose
of the multiple detents in the leather... to keep the needle from
slipping sideways.
<http://www.antiques.com/vendor_item_images/ori_34237_710564252_Sailors%20Palm%20Top.jpg>
>epoxy formulated for the spec material then awl sewing is tight tight
>tight.
the epoxy and the rubber will eventually fracture.
>using a machine for a small velcro reattachment is kinda seige gun/
>gnat work.
>see here Graingers with an excellent search device
>http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/glues-and-cements/adhesives-sealants-and-tape/ecatalog/N-84p/Ntt-cement
>the Weldwood at top maybe the nylon glue mentioned
will work, but you have to get it right the first time. Misalign
slightly, and it's permanent. Also, as mentioned previously, the
problem with using just glue is that if the Lorica fake leather
decides to fall apart, the glue will peel off the surface layer. With
sewing, you have the benefit of support from the entire piece of
leather, not just the surface layer. Unfortunately, with both, you
have the potential problem of having the sewing machine needle get
gummed up by the glue.
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
Message has been deleted
Jeff Liebermann
Sep 30, 2011, 12:54:25 PM9/30/11
to
On Fri, 30 Sep 2011 17:16:43 +0100, Phil W Lee <ph...@lee-family.me.uk>
wrote:
>I got around that by waxing both the needle and the thread (so the
>needle was getting re-waxed as it was used).
Good idea. Thanks.
>The Singer needles I used to get for leatherwork were triangular
>point.
>That was for my very old hand driven sewing machine, which could sew
>almost anything if you did the friction up tight enough.
These needles?
<http://www.singerco.com/accessories/detail/1219/leather-needles-sizes-14-16>
Those are wedge point, not triangular. I can easily find Glovers
(sail makers) triangular hand needles, but nothing for sewing
machines. Do you have a source as I want to try it?
wrote:
>I got around that by waxing both the needle and the thread (so the
>needle was getting re-waxed as it was used).
Good idea. Thanks.
>The Singer needles I used to get for leatherwork were triangular
>point.
>That was for my very old hand driven sewing machine, which could sew
>almost anything if you did the friction up tight enough.
These needles?
<http://www.singerco.com/accessories/detail/1219/leather-needles-sizes-14-16>
Those are wedge point, not triangular. I can easily find Glovers
(sail makers) triangular hand needles, but nothing for sewing
machines. Do you have a source as I want to try it?
Message has been deleted
kolldata
Oct 1, 2011, 12:10:59 AM10/1/11
to
YEAH. A GOOD HAND SEWING NEEDLE. where ?
Use a ground pointed rubber capped screwdriver as an awl. Rubber-ply
no slip.
on all 'this won't work'...."that's" why the 3M cost 3 X more than the
Weldwood which on nylon tent repairs ect is a killer glue. No sewing
necessary like its forever.
standard Wal Duco ? two part epoxy for the corect use age as on the
label isn;t brittle. Superglue is brittle.
and off course if your in deep, heat the needle with a propane torch.
Use a ground pointed rubber capped screwdriver as an awl. Rubber-ply
no slip.
on all 'this won't work'...."that's" why the 3M cost 3 X more than the
Weldwood which on nylon tent repairs ect is a killer glue. No sewing
necessary like its forever.
standard Wal Duco ? two part epoxy for the corect use age as on the
label isn;t brittle. Superglue is brittle.
and off course if your in deep, heat the needle with a propane torch.
Jeff Liebermann
Oct 1, 2011, 3:15:02 AM10/1/11
to
On Fri, 30 Sep 2011 21:10:59 -0700 (PDT), kolldata
<data...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>YEAH. A GOOD HAND SEWING NEEDLE. where ?
Where to get a hand needle? Any sewing center, market, drug store,
<data...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>YEAH. A GOOD HAND SEWING NEEDLE. where ?
eBay, etc.
Where to use a hand needle? Ummm... on the Sidi shoe in question?
Maybe sew your own panniers?
>Use a ground pointed rubber capped screwdriver as an awl. Rubber-ply
>no slip.
hole pattern.
<http://www.flickr.com/photos/theworkroom/3794378546/>
Push hard and you can probably punch through the thinner materials.
The problem with your sharpened screwdriver is that there's no hole
for the thread, as in an awl. However, for hand sewing, anything that
will pre-punch a hole in the leather will work.
>on all 'this won't work'...."that's" why the 3M cost 3 X more than the
>Weldwood which on nylon tent repairs ect is a killer glue. No sewing
>necessary like its forever.
However, as I previously mentioned, you have to get it right the first
time. You can't just rip the seam and start over if you make a
mistake.
>standard Wal Duco ? two part epoxy for the corect use age as on the
>label isn;t brittle. Superglue is brittle.
>and off course if your in deep, heat the needle with a propane torch.
While an issue with the typical slow home sewing machine, industrial
sewing machines have problems keeping the needles cool. Keeping the
needle cool is the reason that machine leather sewing is done with a
needle tip that cuts its way through the material (wedge or triangular
point), not pushes its way through.
<http://www.amefird.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/Minimizing-Needle-Heat-1-2-10.pdf>
In my father's lingerie factory, needle heating was a chronic problem.
Same with a local wet suit manufacture and an embroidery company. If
the needle became hot, the thread would melt and break. The higher
speed machines have forced air cooled needles. Some of the better
machines add a water mist to the air flow.
kolldata
Oct 1, 2011, 12:08:22 PM10/1/11
to
On Oct 1, 12:15 am, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 30 Sep 2011 21:10:59 -0700 (PDT), kolldata
>
> On Fri, 30 Sep 2011 21:10:59 -0700 (PDT), kolldata
>
> In my father's lingerie factory, needle heating was a chronic problem.
> Same with a local wet suit manufacture and an embroidery company. If
> the needle became hot, the thread would melt and break. The higher
> speed machines have forced air cooled needles. Some of the better
> machines add a water mist to the air flow.
>
> --
> Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
> 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
> Santa Cruz CA 95060http://802.11junk.com
> Same with a local wet suit manufacture and an embroidery company. If
> the needle became hot, the thread would melt and break. The higher
> speed machines have forced air cooled needles. Some of the better
> machines add a water mist to the air flow.
>
> --
> Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
> 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
> Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
hand sewing. heat the awl, glue hole if necessary, rehole with awl
then insert needle.
Sidi's are leather ? Yawl live in the desert ?
does quality contact cement or two part epoxy work with leather if
first sanded to ruffness, taking all finish off ?
Peter Cole
Oct 1, 2011, 6:18:12 PM10/1/11
to
On 9/30/2011 12:54 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Fri, 30 Sep 2011 17:16:43 +0100, Phil W Lee<ph...@lee-family.me.uk>
> wrote:
>
>> I got around that by waxing both the needle and the thread (so the
>> needle was getting re-waxed as it was used).
>
> Good idea. Thanks.
>
>> The Singer needles I used to get for leatherwork were triangular
>> point.
>> That was for my very old hand driven sewing machine, which could sew
>> almost anything if you did the friction up tight enough.
>
> These needles?
> <http://www.singerco.com/accessories/detail/1219/leather-needles-sizes-14-16>
> Those are wedge point, not triangular. I can easily find Glovers
> (sail makers) triangular hand needles, but nothing for sewing
> machines. Do you have a source as I want to try it?
>
These are #19, they also have #16. Good company.
> On Fri, 30 Sep 2011 17:16:43 +0100, Phil W Lee<ph...@lee-family.me.uk>
> wrote:
>
>> I got around that by waxing both the needle and the thread (so the
>> needle was getting re-waxed as it was used).
>
> Good idea. Thanks.
>
>> The Singer needles I used to get for leatherwork were triangular
>> point.
>> That was for my very old hand driven sewing machine, which could sew
>> almost anything if you did the friction up tight enough.
>
> These needles?
> <http://www.singerco.com/accessories/detail/1219/leather-needles-sizes-14-16>
> Those are wedge point, not triangular. I can easily find Glovers
> (sail makers) triangular hand needles, but nothing for sewing
> machines. Do you have a source as I want to try it?
>
http://www.sailrite.com/Sewing-Machine-Leather-Needles-System-130-19-Pack-5
Joy Beeson
Oct 1, 2011, 11:40:03 PM10/1/11
to
> That was for my very old hand driven sewing machine, which could sew
> almost anything if you did the friction up tight enough.
Any machine can be hand driven. I've gotten over many a thick place
> almost anything if you did the friction up tight enough.
(crossing a flat-fell seam, for example) by turning the handwheel. If
it doesn't pierce just by turning, move the needle up and down and
gradually drill through. Another trick is to back off an inch or two,
then twirl the handwheel so that the needle has momentum when it hits
the hole, but there is no force along the drivetrain to stress the
machine. (kinda like rising with bent knees when you can't miss a
pothole)
If you need to put more than one thread through a hole, "leather"
needles are a no-no -- they cut the thread already in the hole. Round
needles nearly always work, and don't create snips for starting a
tear. (I think "stress raiser" is the general term for things that
concentrate forces to make breaking stuff easier.)
Hand sewing is easier if you poke holes with an awl first. You can
use a thin pricker that's too short to bend, then enlarge the hole
with something coarser.
--
Joy Beeson
joy beeson at comcast dot net
Jeff Liebermann
Oct 2, 2011, 12:17:18 AM10/2/11
to
On Sat, 1 Oct 2011 09:08:22 -0700 (PDT), kolldata <data...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
>hand sewing. heat the awl, glue hole if necessary, rehole with awl
>then insert needle.
Sounds like too much work. Saving labor is why the sewing machine was
invented.
>Sidi's are leather ? Yawl live in the desert ?
Fake leather. It's made from Lorica, also known as urethane and
polyamide artificial leather. The new shiny stuff is called Vernice,
epoxy will crack. Forget about using epoxy.
I'm not sure about contact cement. The problem is not getting
sufficient adhesion. It's that the contact cement is stronger than
the base material, which is essentially open cell foam. Whether the
Velcro is glued to the shiny surface (Vernice) or to the base foam
under the surface, doesn't matter. It will be the base material that
will tear (lack of peel strength). My guess(tm) is that the glue
joint will be slightly stronger attached to the surface finish because
of the larger surface area than the foam. The good news is that
either way is probably sufficiently strong to support the Velcro,
especially since the two parts of the Velcro fastener will detach long
before the base material will tear.
However, the real problem with contact cement is that you have to get
it right the first time. If you run the glue right up to the edge of
the Velcro, it might ooze out and make a mess on the (fake) leather.
If you leave a margin, the Velcro edge will not be secure, and might
peel when opening the shoe strap. Eventually, the peeling action
might rip the base (fake) leather material. The good news is that the
urethane foam is quite strong and it will require considerable effort
to make it peel below the glue line.
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
wrote:
>hand sewing. heat the awl, glue hole if necessary, rehole with awl
>then insert needle.
invented.
>Sidi's are leather ? Yawl live in the desert ?
polyamide artificial leather. The new shiny stuff is called Vernice,
but is also Lorica under the surface. The material comes from Japan,
but is softened, dyed, and finished in Italy:
<http://www.loricasud.com>
but is softened, dyed, and finished in Italy:
<http://www.loricasud.com>
>does quality contact cement or two part epoxy work with leather if
>first sanded to ruffness, taking all finish off ?
Epoxy is too brittle. As soon as you bend the (fake) leather, the
>first sanded to ruffness, taking all finish off ?
epoxy will crack. Forget about using epoxy.
I'm not sure about contact cement. The problem is not getting
sufficient adhesion. It's that the contact cement is stronger than
the base material, which is essentially open cell foam. Whether the
Velcro is glued to the shiny surface (Vernice) or to the base foam
under the surface, doesn't matter. It will be the base material that
will tear (lack of peel strength). My guess(tm) is that the glue
joint will be slightly stronger attached to the surface finish because
of the larger surface area than the foam. The good news is that
either way is probably sufficiently strong to support the Velcro,
especially since the two parts of the Velcro fastener will detach long
before the base material will tear.
However, the real problem with contact cement is that you have to get
it right the first time. If you run the glue right up to the edge of
the Velcro, it might ooze out and make a mess on the (fake) leather.
If you leave a margin, the Velcro edge will not be secure, and might
peel when opening the shoe strap. Eventually, the peeling action
might rip the base (fake) leather material. The good news is that the
urethane foam is quite strong and it will require considerable effort
to make it peel below the glue line.
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
kolldata
Oct 2, 2011, 11:46:05 AM10/2/11
to
On Oct 1, 9:17 pm, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 1 Oct 2011 09:08:22 -0700 (PDT), kolldata <datak...@yahoo.com>
> Santa Cruz CA 95060http://802.11junk.com
> Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
maybe you're approaching the job from the sewing side not the glue
side. But correct, some but maybe not all "IMITATION" leathers, are
fragile in peel strength. I have 3 pairs mid grade hiking boots where
the upper material doesn't seem fragile but I'm not sanding today
either.
the SPECIFIC application 2 part epoxy will state use for leather, then
the next package will state-porcelien, glass, uh metal....
epoxy for softer materials eg rubber, corefam, uses a penetrating
carrier for a softer base.
I'm sewing over a wooden form soas the objects original get the patch
sewn into original curvatures of the accepting surface and as a glued
patch also. Getting the curves to original spec takes out the stress
riser.
how long does it take to thread 24 holes ?
getting a large sheet of formica - $$$ - onto a large piece of 1"
particle board is care, jig if possible, and Zen. a small patch is
merely surgery.
> On Sat, 1 Oct 2011 09:08:22 -0700 (PDT), kolldata <datak...@yahoo.com>
> Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
maybe you're approaching the job from the sewing side not the glue
side. But correct, some but maybe not all "IMITATION" leathers, are
fragile in peel strength. I have 3 pairs mid grade hiking boots where
the upper material doesn't seem fragile but I'm not sanding today
either.
the SPECIFIC application 2 part epoxy will state use for leather, then
the next package will state-porcelien, glass, uh metal....
epoxy for softer materials eg rubber, corefam, uses a penetrating
carrier for a softer base.
I'm sewing over a wooden form soas the objects original get the patch
sewn into original curvatures of the accepting surface and as a glued
patch also. Getting the curves to original spec takes out the stress
riser.
how long does it take to thread 24 holes ?
getting a large sheet of formica - $$$ - onto a large piece of 1"
particle board is care, jig if possible, and Zen. a small patch is
merely surgery.
kolldata
Oct 2, 2011, 12:16:29 PM10/2/11
to
uh what your writing is the non leather upper material exists as a
shoe upper material as a laminate, like plywood and if the top ply is
removed then the structural characteristics for use as an upper is
removed and its no longer a useable upper. ?
then I guess your left with ruffing the upper surfacing...
shoe upper material as a laminate, like plywood and if the top ply is
removed then the structural characteristics for use as an upper is
removed and its no longer a useable upper. ?
then I guess your left with ruffing the upper surfacing...
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