Q: How to avoid corrosion/rust/gunk in shifter cables?
Borrall Wonnell
housing (brake/shift) unlubricated stainless cables, and followed the
'rules' for good cable routing.
Shifting performance degraded rapidly after the first couple of months
due to corrosion/rust/gunk in the last section of housing connected to
the rear derailleur (metal ferrules). The cable stop in my derailleur
is full of rust too. No problems with the rest of the drivetrain.
Is there a sensible way to 'seal' the lowest section of housing to
prevent this from happening? 5mm plastic ferrules? Rubber gaskets?
Heatshrink? Grease? I live in a wet climate, which compounds the
problem. LBS recommends Gore Ride-On (but also says the new version
isn't as good as the originals and I'm not interested in spending $75
on a solution).
Ideas/recommendations? I'm thinking that heatshrink may work for the
section of housing connected to the derailleur, but I can't think of
anything to use for the other end (i.e. the first exposed cable
section on the seatstay). Maybe full-length housing, or a length of
housing that runs up to the cable stop nearest the seat tube?
Nate Nagel
Is it rusting at the derailleur end or the chainstay end? Used to be
you could get a little rubber bellowsy thing that would seal that cable
to the stop on the chainstay. Don't know if they're still available,
but I've seen similar boots on V-brakes.
If it's at the derailleur end... um... I don't have any really good
ideas for you
nate
--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel
jim beam
why on earth do you think you need 5mm shifter housing??? use 4mm
housing and the shimano plastic ferrules that come with it. if you look
inside, you'll see little o-ring seals. problem solved.
Peter S.
> Is there a sensible way to 'seal' the lowest section of housing to
> prevent this from happening? 5mm plastic ferrules? Rubber gaskets?
> Heatshrink? Grease? I live in a wet climate, which compounds the
> problem. LBS recommends Gore Ride-On (but also says the new version
> isn't as good as the originals and I'm not interested in spending $75
> on a solution).
You can attach nosed end caps to your existing cables like these from
Jagwire called called "Cable Raincoats" (notice diameter though) :
http://www.jagwireusa.com/img/products/lg/CHA062-BJ.jpg
http://www.jagwireusa.com/index.php/products/road/517
The long nose acts as an extra seal and protects the part of the cable
that moves in and out the the cables housing, both protecting that
cable stretch from rusting easily, and prevents that it carries
contamination inside the cable housing.There are lots of other
producers of such extra sealed end caps.
If you need new cables anyway Jagwire "Ripcord" cable kits are sealed
from shifter to derailleur by using thin cable liner on the "long"
stretches. Should be much cheaper than "Ride On".
I believe that both Shimano and Jaqwire uses Silicone based grease as
cable lubricants: it repels water and can make a physical barrier that
prevents water and dirt ingress. It can also acts as a filler to
prevent condensation water to freeze inside the cable (mostly an issue
for internal gear hubs). Lubricates but doesn't gum up even at very
low temperatures, is a corrosion-inhibitor, doesn't attract dirt like
normal grease does, or attack or swell rubber sealings etc. All in all
Silicone based grease have good properties that makes it an excellent
choice for lubricating cable housings used in rough weather riding,
which is probably why Shimano and others uses it for their cables.
Silicone spray cans are good at cleaning already contaminated cable
housings. Silicone spray cans can be had almost everywhere, but
Silicone based grease can be harder to find.
Teflon lined cable housings are good, but Teflon lined wires are
allegedly a waste of money since the Teflon quickly flakes off.
Long nosed end caps and Silicone grease in the cable house should be a
cheap upgrade to your existing cables that works very well against
rusting cables, and.water and dirt intrusion.
--
Regards
Michael Press
<fb0a88dd-1a1a-4cbc...@d4g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>,
Borrall Wonnell <dbon...@gmail.com> wrote:
If you drench equipment, water will get in so if you are
trying to seal against water your are shoveling against
the tide. Better to design in weep holes, and not have
basins in the cable housing run. House painters do not
caulk bottom seams.
I have a palm size grease gun with an 18 gauge hypodermic
needle at the business end to inject grease into cable
housing runs.
--
Michael Press
Frank Krygowski
> Last year I re-built a MTB in preparation for fall/winter. I used 5mm
> housing (brake/shift) unlubricated stainless cables, and followed the
> 'rules' for good cable routing.
>
> Shifting performance degraded rapidly after the first couple of months
> due to corrosion/rust/gunk in the last section of housing connected to
> the rear derailleur (metal ferrules). The cable stop in my derailleur
> is full of rust too. No problems with the rest of the drivetrain.
>
> Is there a sensible way to 'seal' the lowest section of housing to
> prevent this from happening?
My first mountaing bike had a low-mounted cable loop to send the cable
up to the front derailleur. It caught water and caused rust probems,
plus freezing problems in the winter.
I greased that section of cable well, and I put dabs of silicon seal
caulk on each end of the cable. As I recall, it helped a lot. (That
bikes been gone for years now.)
- Frank Krygowski
someone
> On 20 Sep., 18:33, Borrall Wonnell <dbonn...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Is there a sensible way to 'seal' the lowest section of housing to
> > prevent this from happening? 5mm plastic ferrules? Rubber gaskets?
> > Heatshrink? Grease? I live in a wet climate, which compounds the
> > problem. LBS recommends Gore Ride-On (but also says the new version
> > isn't as good as the originals and I'm not interested in spending $75
> > on a solution).
>
> You can attach nosed end caps to your existing cables like these from
>
> The long nose acts as an extra seal and protects the part of the cable
> that moves in and out the the cables housing, both protecting that
> cable stretch from rusting easily, and prevents that it carries
> contamination inside the cable housing.There are lots of other
> producers of such extra sealed end caps.
>
> If you need new cables anyway Jagwire "Ripcord" cable kits are sealed
> from shifter to derailleur by using thin cable liner on the "long"
> stretches. Should be much cheaper than "Ride On".
>
> I believe that both Shimano and Jaqwire uses Silicone based grease as
> cable lubricants: it repels water and can make a physical barrier that
> prevents water and dirt ingress. It can also acts as a filler to
> prevent condensation water to freeze inside the cable (mostly an issue
> for internal gear hubs). Lubricates but doesn't gum up even at very
> low temperatures, is a corrosion-inhibitor, doesn't attract dirt like
> normal grease does, or attack or swell rubber sealings etc. All in all
> Silicone based grease have good properties that makes it an excellent
> choice for lubricating cable housings used in rough weather riding,
> which is probably why Shimano and others uses it for their cables.
> Silicone spray cans are good at cleaning already contaminated cable
> housings. Silicone spray cans can be had almost everywhere, but
> Silicone based grease can be harder to find.
Model shops, used in gearboxes or electronics supply, used for
waterproofing, corrosion resistance, oxidation and barrier for
abrasive particles. Quite a good recommendation for gear cables,
although I've been satisfied with any liquid lubricant in unlined
cables, although graphited grease used to be the choice (messy) , and
silicon spray in lined cables.
waxing the inner wire where it enters the sleeve, just drip a candle
on it, should also provide the necessary protection.
Peter Cole
> Silicone spray cans can be had almost everywhere, but
> Silicone based grease can be harder to find.
I buy it at the auto parts store. There it's called "dielectric grease"
-- used for ignition wire boots typically. The can I bought was
pressurized like Cheese Whiz, which didn't work so well. I pulled out
the valve & use a Popsicle stick to dispense.
N8N
you could also use a tube of "Sil-Glyde" which is a silicone based
grease (commonly found at your FLAPS) and manually lube the cable
before running it into the housing.
nate
Peter Cole
I favor full length housing for that kind of environment.
The "final loop" on rear derailer cables is usually the most
troublesome. On bikes that I haven't run full housing, I just replace it
fairly frequently.
jay
>
> - Show quoted text -
I agree w/ just about everything stated above.
But I don't believe any one mentioned Stainless Steel "slick" cables.
Some "slick" cables
seem slicker than others. I should buy a non slick cable, & mark it
for comparison
sake. Certainly the use of any, slick or not slick, SS cables would
help along w/ the other suggestions.
One can special order those little end tit bellows that fit where the
rr. der. cable exits
the last sliding cable part of the der. Look in Shimano's tech web
pages under
exploded views of their better derailleurs. I have no idea how far
they trickle down
the price chain.
If you submerge your bike to above the height of the rr. der, I don’t
think anything can
Help.
Gravity, water, & Murphy’s law are one hell of a combo. to beat.
Tom Sherman °_°
How does Cheeze Whiz work as a cable lubricant? ;)
--
Tom Sherman - 42.435731,-83.985007
Brian Huntley
<twshermanREM...@THISsouthslope.net> wrote:
>
> How does Cheeze Whiz work as a cable lubricant? ;)
Pretty good in areas with a low squirrel count. But get the good
stuff, that's 99% cheese and only 1% whiz.
Chalo
>
> Last year I re-built a MTB in preparation for fall/winter. I used 5mm
> housing (brake/shift) unlubricated stainless cables, and followed the
> 'rules' for good cable routing.
>
> Shifting performance degraded rapidly after the first couple of months
> due to corrosion/rust/gunk in the last section of housing connected to
> the rear derailleur (metal ferrules). The cable stop in my derailleur
> is full of rust too. No problems with the rest of the drivetrain.
Do you ride in salt?
If so, move somewhere better. Presto, no shifting problems. And the
girls are better looking too.
Chalo
Tom Sherman °_°
fall is here.
Borrall Wonnell
> Borrall Wonnell wrote:
>
> Do you ride in salt?
>
> If so, move somewhere better. Presto, no shifting problems. And the
> girls are better looking too.
>
Chalo, you must be psychic. I'm serious. How could you possibly know
about the girls in my area??
Borrall Wonnell
> > > Last year I re-built a MTB in preparation for fall/winter. I used 5mm
> > > housing (brake/shift) unlubricated stainless cables, and followed the
> > > 'rules' for good cable routing.
>
As usual, thanks for all the helpful responses. Here are a few
comments:
1) I use 5mm housing because that's what my LBS carries. Probably
because 5mm is 'supposed' to shift better in cruddy conditions. Odd
that there are no 5mm plastic ferrules. I may switch back to 4mm for
kicks.
2) There is some rust at the derailleur end (inside the cable stop).
Probably due to water running down the housing into the cable stop. A
bit of grease (on the outside of the ferrule) would do the job here.
The derailleur does have a rubber boot/bellows on the lower side of
the cable stop.
3) Jagwire raincoats...exactly what I'm looking for, but apparently
difficult to find. The alternative is to run full cable housing
(which I may try instead).
4) I was under the impression that lubing/greasing cables was a bad
thing, resulting in similar shifting degradation over time.
5) I don't have any Cheeze Whiz. Even if I did, the squirrels here
are too polite to steal it.
Cam in Toronto
The girls are better looking in Canada, but you can't tell by looking.
jim beam
do you ride outside of a nice big dry tent? circus clowns don't -
that's why they don't have shifter cable problems.
people outside of circus tents otoh, wet or dry, get shifter problems if
they don't use a system to keep the gunk out of the cable liner like
shimano ferrules with the o-ring seals. but you're a professional bike
mechanic aren't you chalo, so you know /all/ about this stuff.
Chalo
>
> Chalo wrote:
> >
> > Borrall Wonnell wrote:
> >>
> >> Last year I re-built a MTB in preparation for fall/winter. I used 5mm
> >> housing (brake/shift) unlubricated stainless cables, and followed the
> >> 'rules' for good cable routing.
> >>
> >> Shifting performance degraded rapidly after the first couple of months
> >> due to corrosion/rust/gunk in the last section of housing connected to
> >> the rear derailleur (metal ferrules). The cable stop in my derailleur
> >> is full of rust too. No problems with the rest of the drivetrain.
> >
> > Do you ride in salt?
> >
> > If so, move somewhere better. Presto, no shifting problems. And the
> > girls are better looking too.
>
> that's why they don't have shifter cable problems.
>
> people outside of circus tents otoh, wet or dry, get shifter problems if
> they don't use a system to keep the gunk out of the cable liner like
> shimano ferrules with the o-ring seals. but you're a professional bike
> mechanic aren't you chalo, so you know /all/ about this stuff.
We got 2-1/2" of rain this morning in Austin. I rode to work in it.
It's clean water, though-- cleaner than out of the tap-- and it has
never managed to fossilize my cables in their housings.
My cables become old and begin to break strands at their anchor points
without ever having been stuck or draggy in their housings. That's
what happens when they are routed appropriately through lined housings
and used regularly. They don't fail from anything else, so they
eventually fail at the stress concentration at the cable clamp, or at
a bend inside a poorly-designed lever such as Shimano STI or Rapid
Fire.
That's why I prefer aluminum 4mm cable ferrules to the stock Shimano
plastic junk, seals or no. Thick-walled aluminum ferrules are strong
and do not become flared, pinched, bent, split, or ruptured in normal
use. Plastic ferrules can be acceptable when new, but eventually they
crack or allow longitudinal housing strands to poke through. Thick
aluminum 4mm ferrules don't do that (unless you ride in a salty Hell
perhaps).
Cables become stuck or eroded inside housings through severe neglect
(being left disused in the weather for a long time), electrolyte-laden
filth (e.g. riding on salted roads in Hell, WI), poor routing that
holds water, and/or unlined housing. I have worked on thousands of
bikes, and all the stuck cables I've seen have been attributable to
one or more of the above-- but _not_ attributable to simple exposure
to rainy conditions.
Chalo
jim beam
you're a bullshitter in denial chalo - how you can gloss over o-ring
sealed ferrule realities so glibly and uncomprehendingly is ridiculous..
bullshitter in denial = circus clown.
(PeteCresswell)
>We got 2-1/2" of rain this morning in Austin. I rode to work in it.
>It's clean water, though-- cleaner than out of the tap-- and it has
>never managed to fossilize my cables in their housings.
Having said this, I'll probably break a cable tomorrow but....
My commuter bike lives on a rack on the back of my car.
I drive part way to work, ride the rest.
It sees the inside of a garage maybe one night every two
months... like if it looks like it's really gonna pour when I get
home from work, I'll put it in the garage - otherwise it stays on
the rack.
Lots of rust on non-stainless/non-galvanized screws... but no
problems so far with cables. I go the no-gaps route: all cables
are continuous from lever to whatever they control, held to the
frame with Home Depot's finest duct tape.
Viz: http://tinyurl.com/mytckb
--
PeteCresswell
jay
> > > Borrall Wonnell wrote:
> > > > Last year I re-built a MTB in preparation for fall/winter. I used 5mm
> > > > housing (brake/shift) unlubricated stainless cables, and followed the
> > > > 'rules' for good cable routing.
>
> As usual, thanks for all the helpful responses. Here are a few
> comments:
>
> 1) I use 5mm housing because that's what my LBS carries. Probably
> because 5mm is 'supposed' to shift better in cruddy conditions. Odd
> that there are no 5mm plastic ferrules. I may switch back to 4mm for
> kicks.
>
> 2) There is some rust at the derailleur end (inside the cable stop).
> Probably due to water running down the housing into the cable stop. A
> bit of grease (on the outside of the ferrule) would do the job here.
> The derailleur does have a rubber boot/bellows on the lower side of
> the cable stop.
>
> 3) Jagwire raincoats...exactly what I'm looking for, but apparently
> difficult to find. The alternative is to run full cable housing
> (which I may try instead).
www.biketoolsetc.com CABLE RAINCOAT 5mm SET, 10/Bag $6.95 plus
shipping
jim beam
> On Sep 22, 6:26�am, Borrall Wonnell<dbonn...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Borrall Wonnell wrote:
>>>>> Last year I re-built a MTB in preparation for fall/winter. �I used 5mm
>>>>> housing (brake/shift) unlubricated stainless cables, and followed the
>>>>> 'rules' for good cable routing.
>>
>> As usual, thanks for all the helpful responses. �Here are a few
>> comments:
>>
>> 1) I use 5mm housing because that's what my LBS carries. �Probably
>> because 5mm is 'supposed' to shift better in cruddy conditions. �Odd
>> that there are no 5mm plastic ferrules. �I may switch back to 4mm for
>> kicks.
>>
>> 2) There is some rust at the derailleur end (inside the cable stop).
>> Probably due to water running down the housing into the cable stop. �A
>> bit of grease (on the outside of the ferrule) would do the job here.
>> The derailleur does have a rubber boot/bellows on the lower side of
>> the cable stop.
>>
>> 3) Jagwire raincoats...exactly what I'm looking for, but apparently
>> difficult to find. �The alternative is to run full cable housing
>> (which I may try instead).
>
> www.biketoolsetc.com CABLE RAINCOAT 5mm SET, 10/Bag $6.95 plus
> shipping
>
those are better than nothing, but the ultimate are these:
http://www.paul-lange.de/produkte/shimano/support/explosionszeichungen_archiv/SM/SMALLPARTS.pdf
#5 or #6.