How much can elite cyclists squat ?
S. Moore
Question - Anybody have any idea how much elite road cyclists
(Indurain, Boardman, Olano, JaJa, etc.) can squat (3 sets - ten
reps) ?
Thanks all in advance.
Seth
Patrick McNally
In article <58fska$rv8$1...@mhade.production.compuserve.com>, S. Moore
<7332...@CompuServe.COM> wrote:
> Question - Anybody have any idea how much elite road cyclists
> (Indurain, Boardman, Olano, JaJa, etc.) can squat (3 sets - ten
> reps) ?
If you're wondering how your power compares to theirs,
a max power test on the bike would probably be more
of an accurate test.
--
Patrick McNally
p-mc...@nwu.edu
bus...@erols.com
I know it can be reassuring to see where you stand in relation to others
by comparing squat weights and reps. But don't put too much stock in the
comparison because you'll be comparing apples and oranges.
I used to go the the gym with a friend of mine (or should I say, I was
dragged to the gym), and he would regularly kick my ass when we did squats
together. (Right now I can't remember what weights we were using.) But
we always used the Smith machine and I would recommend it to any cyclists
trying to do squats. I had terrible form when trying to squats with free
weights and risked hurting myself or others around me while atempting to
put up the weight. The Smith machine allows you to control the weight in
a vertical plane and provides safety latches to save you if you overdo it.
It also helps to isolate the quads a bit more because form isn't as
critical with the assistance that the machine gives. However, when we
used the "sled" to do leg presses, I came a lot closer to pushing the same
weight that my friend could do. Weight lifting purists tended to scoff at
the machines but they worked for me. I just really sucked at doing free
weight squats. Heck, what did I care, I was a 152 lb. geek in a
weightroom full of monsters. (Lunges with relatively light free weights
and dumbells can provide a killer workout too.)
A match sprinter might give different advice.
But the point which I began with was that my lifting buddy never once beat
me out on the road.
Don't worry about the numbers on the plates and don't forget to always
wear a belt.
--John Seaman
Gene Bowen
S. Moore wrote:
>
> Question - Anybody have any idea how much elite road cyclists
> (Indurain, Boardman, Olano, JaJa, etc.) can squat (3 sets - ten
> reps) ?
>
>
> Seth
A few years ago, I read an article about a top track sprinter who could
squat 400 lbs. I was impressed with the picture of his legs.
The really good road sprinters from my area could squat about 280 lbs.,
free weights.
Gene Bowen
Eleanor MacMaster
I would question whether squats are a particularly good indicator
of a cyclist's strength: squats work the glutes and hamstrings.
A better measure of quadriceps strength is the leg press and
leg extension. And the poster who mentioned lunges holding
weights is dead right: I especially like elevated lunges (one
leg raised in back to isolate the quads in one leg). Another
good weight training exercise for cyclists is to use the pulleys
and a strap and do negatives (the resistance is in the PULL
rather than in the push forward).
Todd Jensen
S. Moore wrote:
>
> Question - Anybody have any idea how much elite road cyclists
> (Indurain, Boardman, Olano, JaJa, etc.) can squat (3 sets - ten
> reps) ?
I don't know, I never tried. 8^)
Todd Jensen
Derek Bennett
Gee, you guys are so much help. How about answering this guy's question?
I have never seen numbers for elite roadies; I imagine they don't do much
freeweights. Trackies do, though. In fact, I bet if you dig back through
this past year's VeloNews issues, you will find some numbers on Marty
Nothstein in the series of articles they did on him.
--
==========================================
Derek Bennett
h:(212) 628-3770
ftp://ftp.netcom.com/pub/db/db/index.html
mailto:d...@netcom.com
Craig Sullivan
bus...@erols.com writes:
>Stuff about weight lifting deleted<
>Don't worry about the numbers on the plates and don't forget to always
>wear a belt.
>--John Seaman
GREAT! First it was the helmet zealots, next thing you know we'll have all
the seatbelt lovers on our backs! What's next?!?!
Andrew Albright
Airbags. Only morons go to the gym without them. Unless you are under 13
yrs old, but then you shouldn't really be in the gym anyway.
Andrew
James Brister
alb...@mail.med.upenn.edu (Andrew Albright) writes:
To the gym? I just got one put on my bike. Should I take it off?
James
--
James Brister bri...@vix.com
Internet Software Consortium http://www.isc.org/isc i...@isc.org
Peter Mills
The question seems a little pointless, since for elite cyclists, maximum
strength is not important. Power, which is much more dependent upon
cardiovascular efficiency is more important than strength, unless the
cyclist in question is a sprinter. That being said, I would suggest that
the average elite cyclist can't squat all that much more than an athletic
person of similar build, especially if that person happens to lift weights.
Peter Mills
Ed Chait
hehehe.....
I tried once, but it almost upset the earth's orbit, so I was told to
never do it again.
Now I just loosen cranks.
Ed
Michael Higuchi
PATM...@SCIENCE2.watstar.uwaterloo.ca (Peter Mills) wrote:
I would tend to agree - I used to squat and deadlift well over 400 lbs
powerlifting in college, yet I still sprint like a grandmother ;)
- __o Michael Higuchi
- _-\<,_ mhig...@ix.netcom.com
- (*)/ (*) Key ID: 0x004DCDA9
Key FP: 24 18 AB 59 1F 91 FD 22 14 62 F0 BF 43 8B 9D F8
Tony Sawyer
Gene Bowen <gen...@exis.net> wrote:
>S. Moore wrote:
>>
>> Question - Anybody have any idea how much elite road cyclists
>> (Indurain, Boardman, Olano, JaJa, etc.) can squat (3 sets - ten
>> reps) ?
>>
>>
>> Seth
>
>A few years ago, I read an article about a top track sprinter who could
>squat 400 lbs. I was impressed with the picture of his legs.
>
>The really good road sprinters from my area could squat about 280 lbs.,
>free weights.
>
>
>Gene Bowen
Currently, I'm only going up to 405 until my back catches up. And that's doing
6-8 reps at the top of a pyramid set. My max last I recall was 485 for 4 reps.
Technique is just as important as strength; you would be suprised at how much
you can squat with technique alone.
--
Tony Sawyer
Gemini Technology Corporation
8 Pasteur, Suite 150
Irvine, California 92718
(714) 727-1980
(714) 727-3066 FAX
to...@gemtech.com
Pete Ro
For road cyclists, I think a more appropriate squat test is something
like 3 sets of 30 reps with about 30-60 sec. rest inbetween. This would
be more in line with the need for both strenth *and* stamina for
roadies, as opposed to trackies who need relatively a short burst of max
power.
Tony Sawyer
mhig...@ix.netcom.com (Michael Higuchi) wrote:
>PATM...@SCIENCE2.watstar.uwaterloo.ca (Peter Mills) wrote:
>
>>
>>Peter Mills
>>
>
>I would tend to agree - I used to squat and deadlift well over 400 lbs
>powerlifting in college, yet I still sprint like a grandmother ;)
>
>
> - __o Michael Higuchi
> - _-\<,_ mhig...@ix.netcom.com
> - (*)/ (*) Key ID: 0x004DCDA9
>
>Key FP: 24 18 AB 59 1F 91 FD 22 14 62 F0 BF 43 8B 9D F8
Try doing powerlifts which require speed as well as strength. I do
power-cleans for this. It's a little tricky, takes alot of technique, but what
you do is take the weight from the floor to your chest in one motion and then
repeat immediately; no resting at either end of the motion. What you will find
is that you are jumping 3-4" off the ground while lifting 185-225 lbs. That
will develop power for sprinting like nothing else.
John Forrest Tomlinson
In <58i9sl$b...@freenet-news.carleton.ca> bo...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA
(Eleanor MacMaster) writes:
>
>
>I would question whether squats are a particularly good indicator
>of a cyclist's strength: squats work the glutes and hamstrings.
>A better measure of quadriceps strength is the leg press and
>leg extension.
I don't agree -- do you pedal with just your quads or do you pedal with
your quads, glutes _&_ hamstrings? If you're pedalling right you're
using all three (and a little adducter and psoas and others).
Leg presses, squats and lunges use all these muscles, but leg
extentsions (more properly called knee extensions) do not. Indeed, the
movement in knee extensions is alien to the pedalling motion. I think
Andy Pruitt, a noted sportsmedecine guy who'w worked with many top
cyclists said "The only time you make a motion like a knee extension is
when you kick your bike after losing a race."
JT
John Forrest Tomlinson
In <32b0e157...@nntp.ix.netcom.com> mhig...@ix.netcom.com
(Michael Higuchi) writes:
>
>PATM...@SCIENCE2.watstar.uwaterloo.ca (Peter Mills) wrote:
>
>>The question seems a little pointless, since for elite cyclists,
maximum
>>strength is not important. Power, which is much more dependent upon
>>cardiovascular efficiency is more important than strength, unless the
>>cyclist in question is a sprinter. That being said, I would suggest
that
>>the average elite cyclist can't squat all that much more than an
athletic
>>person of similar build, especially if that person happens to lift
weights.
>>
>>Peter Mills
>>
>
>I would tend to agree - I used to squat and deadlift well over 400 lbs
>powerlifting in college, yet I still sprint like a grandmother ;)
I'll bet that with that amount of weight you were moving the bar pretty
slowly. Training for sports that require real power (such as sprinting
on a bike), not just strength, means that you have to practice moving
the weight quickly. Most good strenth training programs for cycling
suggest building up to heavy lifting and then following that with a
period of liftly lighter weights much more quickly. The build up to
heavy lifting is important though -- it enable the "lighter" weight you
lift in the power phase to be that much heavier.
JT
Paul Rosenberg
In article <58nn8l$3...@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com>
jt...@ix.netcom.com(John Forrest Tomlinson) writes:
In addition, knee extensions are no so great for one's kness. The
inital arc of the motion builds up your quads, but apparently does
damage to the cartilage (??) or some other part of the knee. The safe
way to do knee extensions is to only use the latter part of the arc:
from about 30 degrees from full extension to full extension.
Peace. Berg.
be...@netoutfit.com
Ride easy, its the off-season.....
John Forrest Tomlinson
In <58hvs8$i...@boursy.news.erols.com> bus...@erols.com writes:
>we always used the Smith machine and I would recommend it to any
cyclists
>trying to do squats. I had terrible form when trying to squats with
free
>weights and risked hurting myself or others around me while atempting
to
>put up the weight. The Smith machine allows you to control the weight
in
>a vertical plane and provides safety latches to save you if you overdo
it.
Forgive me if I'm reading too much into your post, But it's a bit of an
oversimplification to suggest that smith machine squats are safer than
free squats. Sure, smith machine squats are easier on your back, but
they're harder on your knees. Most people's backs aren't that strong,
and that's one reason free squats can be scary, but smith squats (and
hack squats on a machine, which are very similar) put a lot of force
into the knees.
I'd urge people to at least do free squats with light weights sometimes
-- it's such a great exercise.
The safety latches on smith machines are nice, but doing free squats in
a power rack (or with spotters) can safen things up as well.
Just my 2 cents.
JT
Jon Miller
The amount a cyclist can squat may not be the full answer to their
sprint/climbing ability. The weight of the rider needs to be considered.
Example: I coached a female swimmer who could bench press 135-140lbs as a
high school student. Not much gross weight, In fact many people work out
with that much or more for continious reps. However, she only weighed 112
lbs. This gave her a great power to weight ratio and she had tremendous
acceration. Her distance endurance was limited. A big guy like Nothstein
probably squats more than Jalabert or Rominger. The relationship to their
body weight would be interesting.
Jon
Kristofer Larsen
Ok, I'm among the top 5 triathletes in Norway. I weigh about 77kg. You
calculate into lbs. Anyway, I do squats about once or twice a week. Since
noone else has answered your questions I'll just say that I suat about 4x12
x 60 kg or 3x 8 x 80 kg. I suppose i wouldn't be a problem for me to max it
to 120kg. But what's the use. I ain't gonna be no bodybuilder anyway....
Kristofer Larsen
****************************
...Swim the Blue Waves, Bike through the Wind, And Run to Win...
****************************
Kristofer Larsen
Skolegt 35
N-3080 Holmestrand
Norway
****************************
tel: ++47 3305 0752 (private)/ 0961 (work)
e-mail: krla...@sn.no
URL: http://home.sn.no/~krlarsen/
****************************
Peter Mills <PATM...@SCIENCE2.watstar.uwaterloo.ca> wrote in article
<PATMILLS.1...@SCIENCE2.watstar.uwaterloo.ca>...
Kristofer Larsen
Ok, I'm among the top 5 triathletes in Norway. I weigh about 77kg. You
calculate into lbs. Anyway, I do squats about once or twice a week. Since
noone else has answered your questions I'll just say that I suat about 4x12
x 60 kg or 3x 8 x 80 kg. I suppose i wouldn't be a problem for me to max it
to 120kg. But what's the use. I ain't gonna be no bodybuilder anyway....
Kristofer Larsen
****************************
...Swim the Blue Waves, Bike through the Wind, And Run to Win...
****************************
Kristofer Larsen
Skolegt 35
N-3080 Holmestrand
Norway
****************************
tel: ++47 3305 0752 (private)/ 0961 (work)
e-mail: krla...@sn.no
URL: http://home.sn.no/~krlarsen/
****************************
S. Moore <7332...@CompuServe.COM> wrote in article
<58fska$rv8$1...@mhade.production.compuserve.com>...
David Blake
John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:
>
> In <32b0e157...@nntp.ix.netcom.com> mhig...@ix.netcom.com
> (Michael Higuchi) writes:
> >I would tend to agree - I used to squat and deadlift well over 400 lbs
> >powerlifting in college, yet I still sprint like a grandmother ;)
>
> I'll bet that with that amount of weight you were moving the bar pretty
> slowly. Training for sports that require real power (such as sprinting
> on a bike), not just strength, means that you have to practice moving
> the weight quickly.
As a former 4 plate squatter in college (at 165 lbs), I can say
that I was moving the plate quickly. The squats were part of an
overall power program that included the lifts everyone hates -
the deadlift, the clean and jerk, and the power clean.
Those power lifts are a lot better way to develop power in
rapid movements than doing squats quickly with less weight.
Any amount of bobbing at the bottom of a squat will wreck
your knees and fast. Just learn to do a clean and do about
3 sets of 10 twice a week. Same for deadlifts, and do
more high rep squats than that.
--
Dave "Where did I leave that 25 kg plate ?" Blake
dbl...@phy.ucsf.edu
http://www.keck.ucsf.edu/~dblake
David Blake
Paul Rosenberg wrote:
> In article <58nn8l$3...@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com>
> jt...@ix.netcom.com(John Forrest Tomlinson) writes:
> In <58i9sl$b...@freenet-news.carleton.ca> bo...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA
> (Eleanor MacMaster) writes:
> >I would question whether squats are a particularly good indicator
> >of a cyclist's strength: squats work the glutes and hamstrings.
> >A better measure of quadriceps strength is the leg press and
> >leg extension.
>
> I don't agree -- do you pedal with just your quads or do you pedal
> with your quads, glutes _&_ hamstrings? If you're pedalling
> right you're using all three (and a little adducter and psoas
> and others).
Every biomechanical model of cycling that I have seen (and I have
seen quite a few - the latest at the Neuroscience conference)
suggests that cycling power comes from the quads and glutes,
with VERY little contribution from the other leg muscles.
This is consistent with the unusually high quad to hamstring
strength ratio in cyclists, which can lead to a pulled hamstring
if you are prone to sprinting on foot in intramural sports.
Cycling primarily develops the quads and glutes.
Sprinting, of course, is as much about technique as leg
strength, so the amount one can lift is only one part of the
picture.
--
Dave Blake
dbl...@phy.ucsf.edu
http://www.keck.ucsf.edu/~dblake
Jay Wenner
Kristofer Larsen (krla...@sn.no) wrote:
: Ok, I'm among the top 5 triathletes in Norway. I weigh about 77kg. You
: calculate into lbs. Anyway, I do squats about once or twice a week. Since
: noone else has answered your questions I'll just say that I suat about 4x12
: x 60 kg or 3x 8 x 80 kg. I suppose i wouldn't be a problem for me to max it
: to 120kg. But what's the use. I ain't gonna be no bodybuilder anyway....
: Kristofer Larsen
I saw a video tape of Norwegian speed skaters that shows a guy jumping
off one foot, doing some acrobatics with his legs in the air, and then
landing on one foot (in balance). After trying to jump off one leg
myself (no acrobatics), I soon realized how increadibly strong and
powerful these guys are.
I'm not a particular fan of hitting the wt room. Does anyone have feel
for the benefits (strength, quickness) of plyometrics vs. wt lifting.
Jay (can't jump worth beans) Wenner
Warren
In article <58prh4$c...@epx.cis.umn.edu>, wen...@biosci.cbs.umn.edu (Jay
Wenner) wrote:
>
>I'm not a particular fan of hitting the wt room. Does anyone have feel
>for the benefits (strength, quickness) of plyometrics vs. wt lifting.
<Jay (can't jump worth beans) Wenner
If you can't jump at least a foot off the ground you're probably very fat
(I'll assume not) or you don't have much fast twitch fiber. You'll
probably find it easier to do low weights/high reps (12-30), but your
sprint would be helped more by developing the few FT fibers you do have,
which means high weight/low reps(6-12). Plyometrics require careful
protection from ligament/tendon strains but they can help. Try doing deep
knee bends while balanced on ONE leg. Or use a hand on the wall to steady
yourself. Who needs weights?!
-Warren
David Garza
Peter Mills wrote:
>
> The question seems a little pointless, since for elite cyclists, maximum
> strength is not important. Power, which is much more dependent upon
> cardiovascular efficiency is more important than strength, unless the
> cyclist in question is a sprinter. That being said, I would suggest that
> the average elite cyclist can't squat all that much more than an athletic
> person of similar build, especially if that person happens to lift weights.
>
> Peter Mills
In my limited experience in RR-type training rides, I find that when the
sprinting comes up, the best guys to get behind are the muscle-bound
ones.
Their vanity requires that they contest the sprint, but they don't have
the stamina to sustain acceleration for the required distance; nice
lead-outs with big aero-wakes result ...
-- David G.
Hamish Ferguson
Hello there
> In article <58fska$rv8$1...@mhade.production.compuserve.com>, S. Moore
> <7332...@CompuServe.COM> wrote:
>
> > Question - Anybody have any idea how much elite road cyclists
> > (Indurain, Boardman, Olano, JaJa, etc.) can squat (3 sets - ten
> > reps) ?
>
> If you're wondering how your power compares to theirs,
> a max power test on the bike would probably be more
> of an accurate test.
The wingate test is a far better measure. The NZ track cycling team
averages about 1100 watts for the pursuiters, 1400 watts for the kilo
riders and around 1800 watts for the sprinters. The road riders where
around the 1000 watts mark.
Some pros may use weights but I imagine that they are not concerned about
the weight lifted because of the huge endurance demands of pro road
racing which requires the most work in training.
Hamish Ferguson
Patrick McNally
Hamish Ferguson <h.fer...@student.canterbury.ac.nz> wrote:
> The wingate test is a far better measure. The NZ track cycling team
> averages about 1100 watts for the pursuiters, 1400 watts for the kilo
> riders and around 1800 watts for the sprinters. The road riders where
> around the 1000 watts mark.
For how long did they average these watts?
--
Patrick McNally
p-mc...@nwu.edu
John Forrest Tomlinson
In <32B1B5...@student.canterbury.ac.nz> Hamish Ferguson
<h.fer...@student.canterbury.ac.nz> writes:
>
>The wingate test is a far better measure. The NZ track cycling team
>averages about 1100 watts for the pursuiters, 1400 watts for the kilo
>riders and around 1800 watts for the sprinters. The road riders where
>around the 1000 watts mark.
What is the wingate test? Over what period of time are they putting
out this amount of power?
JT
Warren
>In my limited experience in RR-type training rides, I find that when the
>sprinting comes up, the best guys to get behind are the muscle-bound
>ones.
>
>Their vanity requires that they contest the sprint, but they don't have
>the stamina to sustain acceleration for the required distance; nice
>lead-outs with big aero-wakes result ...
The best sprinters try not to put their nose in the wind until it's too
late for anyone but a good sprinter (or no one) to come around. Roadies
who *think* they can sprint with the best make the best leadouts for a
pure sprinter.
Good US road sprinters that come to mind... Davis Phinney, Scott McKinley
(in his prime), Roberto Gaggioli, Malcom Elliot. Who else?
-Warren
John Forrest Tomlinson
In <32B0FF...@loop.com> David Garza <hami...@loop.com> writes:
>
>Peter Mills wrote:
>>
>> The question seems a little pointless, since for elite cyclists,
maximum
>> strength is not important. Power, which is much more dependent upon
>> cardiovascular efficiency is more important than strength, unless
the
>> cyclist in question is a sprinter. That being said, I would suggest
that
>> the average elite cyclist can't squat all that much more than an
athletic
>> person of similar build, especially if that person happens to lift
weights.
>>
>> Peter Mills
>
the
>sprinting comes up, the best guys to get behind are the muscle-bound
>ones.
>
>Their vanity requires that they contest the sprint, but they don't
have
>the stamina to sustain acceleration for the required distance; nice
>lead-outs with big aero-wakes result ...
>
Yeah, I knew a pretty buff guy who was a great sprinter and a nice body
-- not that I was looking at him or nothing.
JT
John Forrest Tomlinson
In <32B03C...@phy.ucsf.edu> David Blake <dbl...@phy.ucsf.edu>
writes:
>As a former 4 plate squatter in college (at 165 lbs), I can say
>that I was moving the plate quickly. The squats were part of an
>overall power program that included the lifts everyone hates -
>the deadlift, the clean and jerk, and the power clean.
>
>Those power lifts are a lot better way to develop power in
>rapid movements than doing squats quickly with less weight.
>Any amount of bobbing at the bottom of a squat will wreck
>your knees and fast. Just learn to do a clean and do about
>3 sets of 10 twice a week. Same for deadlifts, and do
>more high rep squats than that.
>Dave "Where did I leave that 25 kg plate ?" Blake
>dbl...@phy.ucsf.edu
>http://www.keck.ucsf.edu/~dblake
Dave -- was that four plates total (good) or four a side (awesome!)?
;-0.
Seriously, the suggestion about the cleans is great but it seems like
so few people in the gyms I go to know how to do these lifts (I sure
don't). Maybe I'm in the wrong gym>
JT
Derek Bennett
I am still waiting for an answer to this guy's question. So far, we have
had ONE bona fide answer (the one from the Norwegian triathelete). I
would like to know how much ELITE cyclists squat.
For the puposes of this thread, I think we should leave out discussion
about squat technique, whether you should be squatting in the first
place, or what some cyclists have done in their college powerlifting
days. It doesn't matter that squats are a poor metric for elite road
cyclists. I want to find out what a Lance or a Miguel or a Horner or a
Kelly can squat when they do attempt squats. How about HUbner or
Nothstein or Harnett? What about women cyclists? Does anyone have any
ANSWERS?
--
==========================================
Derek Bennett
h:(212) 628-3770
ftp://ftp.netcom.com/pub/db/db/index.html
mailto:d...@netcom.com
John Everett
In article <dbE2Ev...@netcom.com>, d...@netcom.com says...
>For the puposes of this thread, I think we should leave out discussion
>about squat technique, whether you should be squatting in the first
>place, or what some cyclists have done in their college powerlifting
>days.
As someone who has never weight trained before but is starting a three month
program on Monday, anything I can learn by lurking here is welcomed.
--
jeve...@wwa.com (John V. Everett) http://www.wwa.com/~jeverett
Mike Whitman
I work out with a member of last year's national sprint team and she says
that the big boys on the team (Nothstein, Clay, Harnett, etc) do reps with
between 310 and 400 pounds. They don't go for max lifts. I am a lowly cat 3
but I do regular supersets at 500 last year. I haven't gotten into the max
phase of this years program, but doing the heavy lifts mad a big difference
in my sprint/kilo last year (any thing more than 3 laps though....). This
year it is time to cut back on max weight and work on leg speed more. Hello
rollers. Hope this answers your question.
-- mike --
Derek Bennett (d...@netcom.com) wrote:
: I am still waiting for an answer to this guy's question. So far, we have
: had ONE bona fide answer (the one from the Norwegian triathelete). I
: would like to know how much ELITE cyclists squat.
: For the puposes of this thread, I think we should leave out discussion
: about squat technique, whether you should be squatting in the first
: place, or what some cyclists have done in their college powerlifting
: days. It doesn't matter that squats are a poor metric for elite road
: cyclists. I want to find out what a Lance or a Miguel or a Horner or a
: Kelly can squat when they do attempt squats. How about HUbner or
: Nothstein or Harnett? What about women cyclists? Does anyone have any
: ANSWERS?
: --
: ==========================================
: Derek Bennett
: h:(212) 628-3770
: ftp://ftp.netcom.com/pub/db/db/index.html
: mailto:d...@netcom.com
--
__________________________________________________________________________
Mike Whitman
Sprint telephone: 703-904-2430
Manager, Network Security internet: mi...@sprint.net
Reston, Virginia USA http://whitman.sprintlink.net/~mike
finger mike...@whitman.sprintlink.net for PGP key
_(*)
__o __o `\-o _\/ \/ x
_`\<,_ _`\<,_ (*)/ <, (*)` _\ _ *&%
(*)/ (*) (*)/ (*) (*)n ' @ ` #@!&%
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
187
Derek Bennett wrote:
>
> I am still waiting for an answer to this guy's question. So far, we have
> had ONE bona fide answer (the one from the Norwegian triathelete). I
> would like to know how much ELITE cyclists squat.
>
> For the puposes of this thread, I think we should leave out discussion
> about squat technique, whether you should be squatting in the first
> place, or what some cyclists have done in their college powerlifting
> days. It doesn't matter that squats are a poor metric for elite road
> cyclists. I want to find out what a Lance or a Miguel or a Horner or a
> Kelly can squat when they do attempt squats. How about HUbner or
> Nothstein or Harnett? What about women cyclists? Does anyone have any
> ANSWERS?
> --
> ==========================================
> Derek Bennett
> h:(212) 628-3770
> ftp://ftp.netcom.com/pub/db/db/index.html
> mailto:d...@netcom.com
I came across an article in a sports magazine in Singapore featuring the
training of Miguel Indurian 3 years back. For the leg squats, he did
something like 8 X 150 half squats. He even does one legged squat at 5
X 50 per leg. There was a paragraph that has Miguel quoting he
concentrate more on reptition and not how much he can lift.
John Forrest Tomlinson
In <58v965$j...@newsreader.sprintlink.net> mi...@sprintlink.net (Mike
Whitman) writes:
>
>I work out with a member of last year's national sprint team and she
says
>that the big boys on the team (Nothstein, Clay, Harnett, etc) do reps
with
>between 310 and 400 pounds. They don't go for max lifts. I am a lowly
cat 3
>but I do regular supersets at 500 last year.
What are you supersetting the squats with?
JT
Warren
In article <590uum$k...@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>,
jt...@ix.netcom.com(John Forrest Tomlinson) wrote:
Cattle Prod. How else could a Cat 3 do 500 lbs for parallel squats when
Marty and Co. are at 400lbs?
eugenio capodacqua
On Mon, 09 Dec 1996 19:30:53 -0500, Gene Bowen <gen...@exis.net>
wrote:
>S. Moore wrote:
>>
>> Question - Anybody have any idea how much elite road cyclists
>> (Indurain, Boardman, Olano, JaJa, etc.) can squat (3 sets - ten
>> reps) ?
>>
>> Thanks all in advance.
>>
>> Seth
>
>A few years ago, I read an article about a top track sprinter who could
>squat 400 lbs. I was impressed with the picture of his legs.
>
>The really good road sprinters from my area could squat about 280 lbs.,
>free weights.
>
>
>Gene Bowen
I heard italian champion track's Roberto Chiappa made squats whit 550
pounds
Excuse me, are you the singing bush?
In article <58sn2e$e...@dfw-ixnews4.ix.netcom.com>, jt...@ix.netcom.com(John Forrest Tomlinson) writes:
>
> Seriously, the suggestion about the cleans is great but it seems like
> so few people in the gyms I go to know how to do these lifts (I sure
> don't). Maybe I'm in the wrong gym>
>
> JT
>
>
to do squats he replied, "Uh, well, you don't really need to do those.
Besides, they're boring."
Carol "I'm going to lose every race that ends in a sprint because I
haven't figured out the squat machine" Pearson
Warren
In article <1996Dec15...@bsuvc.bsu.edu>, 00clp...@bsuvc.bsu.edu
(Excuse me, are you the singing bush?) wrote:
>In article <58sn2e$e...@dfw-ixnews4.ix.netcom.com>,
jt...@ix.netcom.com(John Forrest Tomlinson) writes:
>
>>
>> Seriously, the suggestion about the cleans is great but it seems like
>> so few people in the gyms I go to know how to do these lifts (I sure
>> don't). Maybe I'm in the wrong gym>
>>
>> JT
>>
>>
>When I asked someone, a personal trainer no less, at the gym here how
>to do squats he replied, "Uh, well, you don't really need to do those.
>Besides, they're boring."
Now there's somebody who's gone beyond his level of expertise. What a
dopey thing to say, to anyone. I'll bet he's got a big upper body and
chicken legs. Pretty common among the gym crowd. Squats can be very hard,
but never boring, unless you also think all-out sprints are boring too.
supe...@earthlink.net
That personal trainer is incompetent. Squats are the king of exercises.
--
Sled
"Have you ever stopped to think...
and forgot to start again ?"
Excuse me, are you the singing bush? <00clp...@bsuvc.bsu.edu> wrote in
article <1996Dec15...@bsuvc.bsu.edu>...
> In article <58sn2e$e...@dfw-ixnews4.ix.netcom.com>,
jt...@ix.netcom.com(John Forrest Tomlinson) writes:
>
> >
> > Seriously, the suggestion about the cleans is great but it seems like
> > so few people in the gyms I go to know how to do these lifts (I sure
> > don't). Maybe I'm in the wrong gym>
> >
> > JT
> >
> >
> When I asked someone, a personal trainer no less, at the gym here how
> to do squats he replied, "Uh, well, you don't really need to do those.
> Besides, they're boring."
Joe Cipale
Currently in my heavy-weight phase, I am squatting 300 lbs ans I am but
a Cat 4.
What does this mean??? ABSOLUTLEY NOTHING! ALl it says is that I can
squat 310 lbs.
I have also had weight training experience in previous years when I
played baseball
and football.
Joe Cipale
Jim Sallee
> >sprinting comes up, the best guys to get behind are the muscle-bound
> >ones.
> >
> >Their vanity requires that they contest the sprint, but they don't have
> >the stamina to sustain acceleration for the required distance; nice
> >lead-outs with big aero-wakes result ...
>
> late for anyone but a good sprinter (or no one) to come around. Roadies
> who *think* they can sprint with the best make the best leadouts for a
> pure sprinter.
>
> Good US road sprinters that come to mind... Davis Phinney, Scott McKinley
> (in his prime), Roberto Gaggioli, Malcom Elliot. Who else?
>
> -Warren
john peters
--
David Blake
John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:
>
> In <32B03C...@phy.ucsf.edu> David Blake <dbl...@phy.ucsf.edu>
> writes:
> Dave -- was that four plates total (good) or four a side (awesome!)?
> ;-0.
4 a side. Ask Chris Port, lineman for the Saints (last time I
checked).
> Seriously, the suggestion about the cleans is great but it seems like
> so few people in the gyms I go to know how to do these lifts (I sure
> don't). Maybe I'm in the wrong gym>
Naw. The only gyms that tend to have power weights are athletic
gyms. Gold's et al are about looks, not about athleticism. You
absolutely need either a rubber floor or rubber plates. The
standard plates are big rubber 15, 20, and 25 kg plates that
exceed standard plates in circumference (so that the rubber
hits the floor first). If your gym does not have them I would
strongly suggest to the managers that they invest in 2 15 kg
rubber plates. You can get by with that.
It is really not too difficult to get going. Keep you back straight.
Keep your head tilted back. For dead lifts reverse the grip on
one of your hands. Then lift. Start light and keep your back
straight (and head up) and good technique will come to you. And
always wear a weight belt.
I couldn't believe the increase in my jump when I was heavily
doing the power lifts. I could dunk fairly easily (at 6'0").
About a year later I was still hanging with the squats but
had stopped the power lifts. I could still squat a lot,
but I could no longer jump.
Another thing to be aware of is that the power lifts hurt.
A lot. The linemen used to avoid them for this reason.
Benching seems free of energy when compared to power
cleans.
Sam Callan
On Wed, 18 Dec 1996, Brad Anders wrote:
> The Wingate test is (as Hamish says) the best test for sprint capability
> outside of really going out and putting in a 200 m TT. The basic protocol
> is 30 seconds of maximum effort on an ergometer. Practically, it is
> administered by having the athlete spin up the flywheel of the ergometer
> (Monark's are preferred) and then dropping the pendulum at the start of
> the test. There is a good formula for calculating the appropriate weight,
> it is most physiological texts. It also can be established by experiment,
> or from estimates of max cadence and target peak power.
Note that that resistance added to the flywheel of the ergometer
is 7.5% of the athlete's weight. That does not sound like much but it is.
>
> Unless you have done one of these tests, you have no idea of how painful
> they can be. Your body is capable of producing its highest power in the
> first 8-12 seconds of the test, but the remaining 18-22 seconds are pure
> hell.
I agree. I have done this several times and the worse thing is
that halfway through some idiot will say "Halfway there" and you think
you have only 5 seconds left!!!
It also useful for measuring how quickly one loses power over the
30 seconds which can be important in selecting a time to sprint as well.
> *******************************************************************************
> * Brad Anders / Sunnyvale CA * ftp://ftp.netcom.com/pub/ba/banders/index.html *
> * ban...@netcom.com * ---------------------------------------------- *
> *******************************************************************************
>
>
=========================================================================
Sam Callan
I will be graduated soon and looking for a job. Please hire me!!!
Question plaguing me as I was grocery shopping:
What was the greatest thing before sliced bread?
John Forrest Tomlinson
In <Pine.GSO.3.95.961219...@panther.Gsu.EDU> Sam
Callan <gs0...@panther.Gsu.EDU> writes:
There seems to be similar test that can be done on a computrainer --
called a power test in which the subject sprints all out over a short
distance against a resistance. It can take about 25-30 seconds and
gives a max power and average power reading.
Can anyone who is familiar with both say if they are comparable?
And are there figures available on what are "good" levels of
performance on these tests?
Sorry, I've removed the attributions, but they were getting confusing.
JT
Patrick McNally
In article <59gv3o$2...@dfw-ixnews5.ix.netcom.com>,
jt...@ix.netcom.com(John Forrest Tomlinson) wrote:
>There seems to be similar test that can be done on a computrainer --
>called a power test in which the subject sprints all out over a short
>distance against a resistance. It can take about 25-30 seconds and
>gives a max power and average power reading.
>
>Can anyone who is familiar with both say if they are comparable?
>
>And are there figures available on what are "good" levels of
>performance on these tests?
Joe Friel's book has guidelines for this test. You should pick
up the book, but I could write the numbers down for those
without the book.
--------------------------
Patrick McNally
p-mc...@nwu.edu
Dan Reimer
Webspinner wrote:
>
> >> The question seems a little pointless, since for elite cyclists, maximum
> >> strength is not important. Power, which is much more dependent upon
> >> cardiovascular efficiency is more important than strength, unless the
> >> cyclist in question is a sprinter. That being said, I would suggest that
> >
> >> the average elite cyclist can't squat all that much more than an athletic
> >
> >> person of similar build, especially if that person happens to lift
> >weights.
> >>
> >> Peter Mills
> >>
> >>
> ability. Has anyone stopped to think that maybe he was just curious? I
> know I was. Unfortunately only 2-3 people have answered the original
> question. I've done 450 at a weight of 210 or so. I'm built like a
> bodybuilder but unfortunately I ride like one too. I would imagine an
> Olympic level sprinter would max 550-600 lbs. I suspect most roadies
> would average in the same range as a non cyclist.
I have had the opportunity to lift 550lbs on a squat rack for 5 reps.
FYI: I'm 5'8 135lbs, and ride exclusively on the road.
My 2 cents.