Garmin 830 with ongoing problems

[Tom Kunich]

Well, I have been bothered by my Garmin 830 reporting "Laps" of 5 miles each. These are absolutely worthless but I have yet to discover a way of turning this off. When I flip the Laps notation "off" it still continues with this distraction.

More serious is it turning off at the strangest moments and for no reason. Yesterday, on that 38 mile ride, it turned off after 21 miles. I think that there was a small indicator that showed it was off but not very noticeable until I reached the top of the climb and started down and got to fairly easy descent from the 12% top descent. This means that I cut 10 miles off of my 38 mile recording. Luckily I did this exact route a month ago and so could get the climb and length off of it. But the new Shamal wheels which had a remarkable effect on my flats speed didn't show any true average speed.

This happened more commonly in the past but it had more or less stopped doing this with the last firmware update. Well, they updated it again and it looks like it is back.

I was also having trouble with my 830 finding the speed/cadence sensor but I figured that one out - they have a class of Cadence sensor and another Speed/Cadence sensor. They are different and apparently have different identification codes. Once discovered, easily fixed.

Now I have to watch for the unit shutting off for some reason. I think that occurs when I come to a stop for more than 10 seconds like when I stopped to take a leak along the road. The distance to that point is about correct for the stopped mileage.

[John B.]

https://www8.garmin.com/manuals/webhelp/edge830/EN-US/Edge_830_OM_EN-US.pdf
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Tom Kunich]

The garminhas carried on with its piculiar behavior. I think that it was the last firmware update that did it in. The immediately followed that by yet another firmware update. So hopefully that wil correct the problem. It shows the route when you get to the end of the ride and connect it with Garmin Express, but it shows zero mileage for these sections. The last time the Garmin switched off at 5 miles into a 30 mile ride leaving me to guess at distances.

[Lou Holtman]

That are strange problems. My brother uses an edge 830 for a couple of years now without those problems. He had issues when the unit came out but all that was solved by the first couple of updates. Garmin and software is not a great combination. Have you consulted the Garmin forum:
https://forums.garmin.com/sports-fitness/cycling/f/edge-830

Lou

[Tom Kunich]

It appears that a lot of people are having trouble with either the same or related problems. Tomorrow I'll be taking anoter ride and start early and hope the wind and weather aren't too bad or hot. If it fails yet again after I've reset it, I'll have to call Service again. The last problem I had he sent me a non-released version of firmware that fixed all of the problems. I think I'll carry the 810 in my back pocket so that I don't have to guess at distances anymore. The 830 is smaller and lighter but DAMN are a lot of people having problems with it.

[Lou Holtman]

The software engineers at Garmin are morons.

Lou

[Roger Merriman]

The apps on the phones are not terribly good granted, but personally I’ve
found the 830 and a friend has the 530 solid, Only issue is if the app bugs
out and stops passing notifications on. Granted I view the data via Strava
but to the best of my knowledge it’s fine.

I generally don’t connect it to the computer more than few times a year as
most of the updates it does via WiFi etc.

Roger Merriman.

[Tom Kunich]

Well, Lou suggested I go to the user comments site of the Garmin website and there were MANY complaints saying EXACTLY what I was. This suggests to me that there was several PCB's of variousversions which could very well be why some people have no problems at all and others a lot. I recieved a firmware update and my 830 would STOP recording speed and distance even though it would record the actual course Almost the following day there was another update that appears to have fixed this problem.

So saying that you have one and it works fine is pretty much meaningless. You can read for yourself large numbers of people with my same complaints.

This also suggests that the firmware engineers do NOT have these various versions properly documented so they cannot properly test their changes. My entire career was making absolutely certain that any and all changes were always properly documented and that major version changes used entirely different firmware that wouldn't load into the wrong version. But remember that all these working systems were invented largely by me. You cannot have any possible errors in an artificial lung machine or an artificial heart.

[Roger Merriman]

A few folks complaining on the Garmin forums is not essentially data, or
rather doesn’t show its large scale or even small scale.

It’s not hit the variable technical places who are for example covering
shimano request that Hammerhead devices (now owned by SRAM) remove the Di12
functions on the devices. And do generally cover bugs and what not.

Roger Merriman

[Lou Holtman]

Big mistake Garmin made imho is allowing third party apps on their devices causing all kind of problems that has to be fixed causing other problems etc. Etc.

Lou

[Tom Kunich]

I have no third parfy apps and don't use any of the special capabilitieds of the 830 such as route mapping. All I wanted it for was to give me time and distance and grade and total climbing. I used to use a small handlebar computer to do this but it wouldn't allow me to log it into the computer other than manually.

[Roger Merriman]

Cheapest Garmin will do that, such as the 130+ I have it’s even cheaper 130
ie somewhat older CPU for the commute which displays time of day, speed,
distance, and run time and uploads via the mobile app, it’s the device I
use for the commute as I don’t want to trash the nice one, on the commute.

I make heavy use of navigation hence liking the 830 for MTB/Gravel rides.

Roger Merriman

[Lou Holtman]

A common mistake. People buy a too complicated device with features they never use and only complicate matters. Half of the members of my club with a Garmin with navigation capabilities can't even read the map without reading glasses.

Lou

[Frank Krygowski]

The proliferation of (relatively) useless features is popping up
everywhere. Even my relatively old stereo receiver has menu items and
buttons that I've never used and never plan to.

The car we just bought has an incredible number of menus and options,
and there are websites describing even more "secret" or "hidden" choices
for this vehicle.

I think it's a massive "make work" program for electronic programmers.


--
- Frank Krygowski

[Roger Merriman]

Number of folks I see with really quite high end Garmin/Wahoo/ etc and all
they do is turn on and ride.

Even the cheap device will talk to power meters etc generally, I don’t use
such stuff as it’s not my thing!

I’m about navigation, the connected feature are handy, and the how steep is
this hill gradients profile and how long is a nice feature but for me it’s
the navigation which is the must rather than the want.

Roger Merriman

[Lou Holtman]

On Saturday, May 28, 2022 at 10:55:00 PM UTC+2, Roger Merriman wrote:

> Lou Holtman <lou.h...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > A common mistake. People buy a too complicated device with features they
> > never use and only complicate matters. Half of the members of my club
> > with a Garmin with navigation capabilities can't even read the map without reading glasses.
> >
> > Lou
> >
> Number of folks I see with really quite high end Garmin/Wahoo/ etc and all
> they do is turn on and ride.

Same here after I disable all the unnecessary crap and set up the basics for them. Our medical half (retired general practitioners and specialists) of our group don't have a clue and don't care. How their patients survived is still a puzzle to me ;-)

Lou

[Tom Kunich]

One day I will figure out how to download route sheets of a century into the 830 for a century I've never done before. Is it better to have the capability and not use it or need the capability and not have it? The major problem is that people that are putting on the century have to know how to generate a Garmin friendly route sheet.

[Lou Holtman]

Route sheets? I think you don’t understand how it works yet. You only need one guy that rides the route and record it to generate a gpx file, hich anyone can download and put it in their Garmin. It is so easy.

Lou

[Tom Kunich]

Lou, they have claimed these files to be available for a couple of centuries now and yet did not explain to the vast majority of people how to download them into their Garmin. Most Centuries make money for clubs and no one in the club has the ability to do a hard 100 miles. Of course they could drive it to record the route but then they have to know how it is all done and they have to put that information on the century website.

[AMuzi]

>>>>>>>> granted, but personally I’ve

>>>>>>>> found the 830 and a friend has the 530 solid, Only
>>>>>>>> issue is if the app bugs
>>>>>>>> out and stops passing notifications on. Granted I
>>>>>>>> view the data via Strava

>>>>>>>> but to the best of my knowledge it’s fine.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I generally don’t connect it to the computer more

>>>>>> rather doesn’t show its large scale or even small
>>>>>> scale.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It’s not hit the variable technical places who are

>>>>>> for example covering
>>>>>> shimano request that Hammerhead devices (now owned by
>>>>>> SRAM) remove the Di12
>>>>>> functions on the devices. And do generally cover bugs
>>>>>> and what not.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>>> Big mistake Garmin made imho is allowing third party
>>>>> apps on their
>>>>> devices causing all kind of problems that has to be
>>>>> fixed causing other
>>>>> problems etc. Etc.
>>>> I have no third parfy apps and don't use any of
>>>>> the special capabilitieds of the 830 such as route
>>>>> mapping. All I wanted
>>>>> it for was to give me time and distance and grade and
>>>>> total climbing. I
>>>>> used to use a small handlebar computer to do this but
>>>>> it wouldn't allow
>>>>> me to log it into the computer other than manually.
>>>>
>>> Cheapest Garmin will do that, such as the 130+ I have

>>> it’s even cheaper 130

>>> ie somewhat older CPU for the commute which displays time
>>> of day, speed,
>>> distance, and run time and uploads via the mobile app,

>>> it’s the device I
>>> use for the commute as I don’t want to trash the nice

>>> one, on the commute.
>>>
>>> I make heavy use of navigation hence liking the 830 for
>>> MTB/Gravel rides.
>>>
>>> Roger Merriman
>>
>> A common mistake. People buy a too complicated device with
>> features they never use and only complicate matters. Half
>> of the members of my club with a Garmin with navigation
>> capabilities can't even read the map without reading glasses.
>
> The proliferation of (relatively) useless features is
> popping up everywhere. Even my relatively old stereo
> receiver has menu items and buttons that I've never used and
> never plan to.
>
> The car we just bought has an incredible number of menus and
> options, and there are websites describing even more
> "secret" or "hidden" choices for this vehicle.
>
> I think it's a massive "make work" program for electronic
> programmers.
>
>

Some people wonder why all my cars are 1965/1966.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[Roger Merriman]

If folks have Strava as a large number will have, star the route and it
will auto magic appear on the Garmin/Wahoo etc.

Or drag and drop the GPX file if one wants to do it old school!

Either way it’s fairly easy stuff, I follow others routes quite regularly
be that other club members or occasionally events.

Roger Merriman

[Tom Kunich]

Saturday after my ride I plugged my Garmin into the desktop and it updated the firmware yet again. This time is changed the base screen. Since I was doing a climbing ride today (max grade 11%, most of the climb 8% and significant distances of 10%) and the change of the base screen was to put "grade" in the main center, largest window I did bother to put everything back the way it was. It wasn't a lot of climbing - only 1500 feet in 25 miles but it was nice to get back climbing again. I could have significantly increased climbing and distance but someone was supposedly going to come look at the car I have on Craigslist. They of course canceled because they think that they can get a better car for less. Here's the sort of thing that they will end up with: https://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/cto/d/alviso-2008-honda-civic-si-coupe/7486784751.html.

[Tom Kunich]

Appaently the 830 has the Strava App built into it.

Today I went on a climbing ride. I felt that the Colnago C50 and Chorus group worked as close to perfect as possible. I probably have the rear derailleur cable tightened too much since it shifts right up but there is a slight delay shifting down. There is no noise from the front derailleur after setting it up with the plastic tool. Though the small cog does make noise. Not much and I'm not quite sure what is causing it. It occurs in both rings and it is a Centaur 11-32. The roads around here are simply too torn up to allow the bike to fly. So you are continually slowing the bike so that you can perceive a pothole far enough ahead to avoid it. These copies of the Dura Ace C50's that people complain about as counterfeit work nearly perfectly. Rather than return the same route which was all downhill with one 50 foot climb and then riding through a section of totally destroyed road, I took a steep descent onto MacArthur Blvd and back all the way on the flats. Or more accurately rollers which I don't believe the Garmin reacts fast enough to record. I grew up in that area and rode by the high school I went to. Aside from the high school the place has been so degraded that people on the street look really downtrodden. Your Democrats at work.

[Roger Merriman]

You can use the Strava app but it’s cleaner easier to link Garmin/Strava
accounts so routes/segments etc will auto magic sync across particularly
since the 830 will Sync via WiFi as well as via the phone or yes even via
the usb cable.

It also has trailforks baked in, which is MTB stuff. Plenty of other apps
though I personally don’t use them.

Roger Merriman

[ritzann...@gmail.com]

Ronald Reagan, Republican, was governor of California from 1967 to 1975.

[Tom Kunich]

I sent my Garmin back to the factory, it was a new one and had 17 numbers or letters in the serial numbers. Yesterday I received back what I assume was supposed to be a repaired older verion which has a serial number consisting of 8 letters and numbers.

I took it out today and it was far worse than the other. The other unit would run for a short time and then freeze up at zero speed. This one had speed entirely unrelated to reality. I would be riding at about 11 or 12 mph and it would show 6 and then jump to 18 mph. At one point while leaving a stop light, it showed that I was going over 30 mph. Finally at 12 miles it too froze at 0.0 mph. The cadence appeared to be operating correctly and the clock seemed to be working as well.

At one point it reported "Lost Satellite". I flipped to the black screen and it showed all green on the GPS.

At the moment I am not feeling very friendly to Garmin. I wonder if they are simply rotating the one's that don't work between people complaining?

[Tom Kunich]

I am presently suffering the after effects of covid-19 which is rather extreme exhaustion. I won't ride until Saturday and maybe Sunday depending on how I feel. The book says that these post covid-19 symptoms usually last 4-6 weeks but can go for 10 weeks. Considering the way I feel, I hope that 4-6 weeks is the longest. I definitely won't be climbing so by the time I recover I will have to start training again so that I can climb.

I'm about to leave and go pick up the Type 2 speed and cadence sensors. I won't install these on the bike until after I test them using pure GPS tracking.

My suspicion is that the reason that I've had all of these problems that Lou hasn't is because of the failure mode of the old style Type 1 speed and cadence sensors. So Lou is correct sort of about the older style speed and cadence detectors not working with the newer head units.

[Frank Krygowski]

On 6/23/2022 1:27 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>
>
> I am presently suffering the after effects of covid-19 which is rather extreme exhaustion. I won't ride until Saturday and maybe Sunday depending on how I feel. The book says that these post covid-19 symptoms usually last 4-6 weeks but can go for 10 weeks. Considering the way I feel, I hope that 4-6 weeks is the longest.

Tom, you've told us for years Covid is fake. By you're own views, Covid
cannot be your problem. You're just getting older and more feeble.

> My suspicion is that the reason that I've had all of these problems that Lou hasn't is because of the failure mode of the old style Type 1 speed and cadence sensors.

Perhaps. But that doesn't explain all your other problems, like
handlebars slipping, bottom brackets that don't fit, shifters that don't
shift, wires that don't wire, bikes that don't sell, jobs that you
couldn't hold onto for more than a year, investments that lose money
when the stock market surges, lawn mowers that chop off toes, and on and
on.

I suspect those problems all have the same root cause.

--
- Frank Krygowski

[Tom Kunich]

Well, one of the help line guys suggested that I disconnect the 830 from the old version 1 speed/cadence sensor and I did that running purely on GPS and it operated perfectly. I will try it again today and then change it over to the version 2 speed and cadence sensors which I think are different. If this works I will let the Garmen people know that they have a big fat bug sitting in the middle of their Version 1 sensor firmware.

[Tom Kunich]

Again it operated perfectly so I will ad a version 2 Cadence and speed sensor and see it that fits the problem.

[Tom Kunich]

In an attempt to hook up the Version 2 speed and cadence sensors, I discovered that the 830 acts as it all of the screens are locked. I cannot get into adding a sensor screen because pushing the 3 lines has absolutely no effect. Fooling around with the power button gets me into a power screen at the top of which is an item that says "Lock Screens" pushing that has no effect either, as does pushing the buttons below it saying "power off" or "go to sleep".

If I turn the timer on, the timer starts running but it shows speed while sitting in my computer room. It you turn the timer off, it asks you if you want to save the recording. But the X for NO also doesn't work.

Does anyone have any idea about how to get this to work?

[John B.]

And thus speaks the chap with, by his own admission, 50 years of
software engineering!
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Mon, 27 Jun 2022 18:41:38 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:

>In an attempt to hook up the Version 2 speed and cadence sensors, I discovered that the 830 acts as it all of the screens are locked.
>I cannot get into adding a sensor screen because pushing the 3 lines has absolutely no effect. Fooling around with the power button gets me into a power screen at the top of which is an item that says "Lock Screens" pushing that has no effect either, as does pushing the buttons below it saying "power off" or "go to sleep".
>If I turn the timer on, the timer starts running but it shows speed while sitting in my computer room. It you turn the timer off, it asks you if you want to save the recording. But the X for NO also doesn't work.
>
>Does anyone have any idea about how to get this to work?

This might help:
<https://forums.garmin.com/sports-fitness/cycling/f/edge-830/172478/screen-lock>

"Also note that if screen capture is on (system, display, Screen
capture) then pressing the power button will take a screen shot
instead of locking the display"

--
Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

[Tom Kunich]

Thus speaks a moron that knows absolutely nothing about firmware or the difference between it and software. But he can run his mouth off for things other than blowing off little Thai boys.

[Tom Kunich]

On Monday, June 27, 2022 at 7:45:23 PM UTC-7, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Mon, 27 Jun 2022 18:41:38 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >In an attempt to hook up the Version 2 speed and cadence sensors, I discovered that the 830 acts as it all of the screens are locked.
> >I cannot get into adding a sensor screen because pushing the 3 lines has absolutely no effect. Fooling around with the power button gets me into a power screen at the top of which is an item that says "Lock Screens" pushing that has no effect either, as does pushing the buttons below it saying "power off" or "go to sleep".
> >If I turn the timer on, the timer starts running but it shows speed while sitting in my computer room. It you turn the timer off, it asks you if you want to save the recording. But the X for NO also doesn't work.
> >
> >Does anyone have any idea about how to get this to work?
> This might help:
> <https://forums.garmin.com/sports-fitness/cycling/f/edge-830/172478/screen-lock>
>
> "Also note that if screen capture is on (system, display, Screen
> capture) then pressing the power button will take a screen shot
> instead of locking the display"

If I hadn't tried doing all of that I wouldn't be asking for assistance. Assuming you have a Garmin 830 why would that be since you don't ride a bike. Assuming you don't have a Garmin 830 why would you be offering advice on it? Is it your belief that after 4 weeks including several hours on the phone with Garmin service that I haven't bothered to read the relevant information?

The unit is working properly as a pure GPS but none of the screens are working for set-up. And adding the Version 2 sensors requires the setup screen.

[Lou Holtman]

Did you try to hold the on/off button for 10 seconds? You garmin should turn off and turn on again.

Lou

[Tom Kunich]

Yes, I've tried that and while it appears to restart none of the buttons do anything. I have to clean up my car for a hopeful sale but after that, I will call Garmin yet again.

Every time I call I get something like "we didn't put that in the manual because everyone should know that" Everyone should know that you have to erase the previous unit from the list, total reset the new unit and wait two hours for the new firmware to load and then place the unit out in the open so that something else will download via GPS? All of this is simple enough but don't you think that should be part of the manual? Garmin have been very patient but I'm getting tired of the unit working correctly until the next update.

[Tom Kunich]

After they looked at the GPS route that showed 25.7 miles for three rides and then on the fourth trip it showed 23 miles and that didn't download to the computer.

So they wanted it back so they can send me yet another rebuilt 830.

[John B.]

On Tue, 28 Jun 2022 07:52:13 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich

Nice one Tommy, but you are the one who brags about all your
experience designing exotic medical equipment and now you need help in
turning on a simple electronic device that hundreds, probably
thousands, of others use with no problems.

Tell us Tommy, do you also have problems with light switches in your
house? "Lets see.... is it up or down?"
--
Cheers,

John B.

[ritzann...@gmail.com]

I just replaced a light switch in my house a couple hours ago. Took longer to figure out which circuit breaker turned it off than to do the work. Simple easy work. But the light was on a GFCI breaker for some odd reason. That was the very very very last one I thought to turn off after I had already turned every other one off twice.

[John B.]

When tinkering with electrical stuff my policy is to pull the main
breaker as I've had some experience with circuits that I "thought"
were "dead" and my normal procedure is to get all the bits, pieces and
tools organized pull the switch, screw the screws and then turn things
back on.
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Tom Kunich]

You're so stupid you cannot tell the difference between turning something on and it working properly. One can only wonder how you can put your own socks on. Or is that why you married a Thai woman whom you claim doesn't want to live in America with large Thai populations.

[Tom Kunich]

I am somewhat bothered by the fact that I bought a NEW Garmin 830 directly from Garmin themselves. It didn't work and they exchanged it for a rebuilt one which on the third firmware update stopped working properly and so they are sending me yet another rebuilt instead of new 830. This hardly seems honest to me.

[John B.]

On Wed, 29 Jun 2022 08:15:30 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich

Socks? Nobody wears socks with sandals.
As for my wife, I'm not claiming, she did visit the U.S, and she did
state that she would never want to live there as the people weren't
"nice".
As for the "large" Thai populations... well the U.S. Migration Policy
Institute has it that there are 239,942 Thai's living in the U.S. as
of 2011.

As for you I can only repeat my previous comment that even a very
small child, or even a puppy dog, will learn if you slap it on the
arse and shout NO! when it misbehaves. But you've been slapped on the
arse, documented for at least 16 years, and you haven't learned a
thing.

I think the light switch may be too complicated for one of your mental
caliber.
--
Cheers,

John B.

[ritzann...@gmail.com]

True. A light switch does have an ON and an OFF position. Depending on how you install it, the ON can be either up or down. Way too many decisions to be made and information to be analyzed for Tommy boy. He had better stick to toolbox carrying.


> --
> Cheers,
>
> John B.

[John B.]

I once worked as an Electrical Supervisor on a project to maintain the
USAF base at Udorn Thailand. I sent a Thai crew out to wire a one room
addition to one of the Air Force's buildings and when the Air Force
Inspector checked the work he "gigged" us because one of the light
switches was "Installed upside down". So... I told the Thai Foreman to
go out and turn the switch the other way "up". He looked at me for a
moment and replied, "but the light works." (:-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

[ritzann...@gmail.com]

True. Just like on an outlet you can attach the white/negative wire to the gold/brass screw, and the black/positive wire to the silver screw. Outlet still works just fine.

[John B.]

On Wed, 29 Jun 2022 23:20:12 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"

Yup, alternating current works both ways (:-)

By the way, in AC house wiring there is no plus and negative there is
a "hot" wire and a "Neutral" and sometimes a 3rd wire" ground".

While the Neutral is usually grounded at the "entrance" to the
building this should not be assumed to be true as the system will work
whether grounded or not.
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Tom Kunich]

So you're admitting you lied about you bringing your wife to the US and her not liking it. She of course preferred a Thai open air market with flies covering the produce rather than an air conditioned supermarket with food that people don't have to wonder if it will poison them or not.

John, every posting you make allows the world to see just how sick you are. You and Liebermann are two of a kind. But Jeff probably isn't blowing young Thai boys like you are. Jeff didn't tell us all that he had never collected his military retirement. And Jeff, as crazy as he is believing that he can test for cancer using home test kits, at least makes a slight attempt to Google things that MIGHT be true and then presents them as absolute truth.

You are showing yourself as a clown with each posting. You are a low IQ type who really would like to present yourself as smart. There was nothing at all wrong with being yourself but you want to be more than that. And so you show a level of ignorance that is shocking to normal people. You even make Russell look smart and THAT is really hard to do.

[Tom Kunich]

So now you're an electrical engineer like Jeff. Why, what's next? Are you going to tell us that you worked for years as an electrician?

[Frank Krygowski]

On 6/30/2022 2:50 AM, John B. wrote:
>
>
> By the way, in AC house wiring there is no plus and negative there is
> a "hot" wire and a "Neutral" and sometimes a 3rd wire" ground".
>
> While the Neutral is usually grounded at the "entrance" to the
> building this should not be assumed to be true as the system will work
> whether grounded or not.

But of course, there's great value in following wiring conventions.

I've already mentioned the part-owner of one small company where I did
some work for a time. He swore white wires were hot and black were neutral.

One electrician we knew gave him the nickname "Sparky."


--
- Frank Krygowski

[ritzann...@gmail.com]

Tommy, you being a city boy who has no clue about where food comes from, I will tell you something. Lots of food is grown in the DIRT!!!!!! Yes that is right, the DIRT!!!!!!!!! And the animals we raise and slaughter and eat are also usually raised on dirt. Standing on the dirt. Not eating the dirt. But the food they eat is grown in the dirt. DIRT!!!!!!!!!!! And guess what Tommy? There are flies and bugs and all kinds of other things in this dirt!!!!!!!!! Or on the crops. Now when all the food is processed, it is usually kept reasonably clean. But I think the FDA has some rules for bug parts per millions thing or another. And human beings deal with germs and bacteria pretty well. I think there is some bacteria that live inside humans!!!!!!!!!!

And Tommy, I suspect there are also open markets where organic, nature people sell their home grown vegetables in California. Usually Saturday mornings in downtown. Usually these markets are a big deal. Lots of people go there every week to buy wholesome food. Usually expensive.

One more thing Tommy boy. Must have been last fall. I helped my Mom and brother pick up apples off a tree. Some of the apples were on the ground!!!!!!! Touching the grass!!!!!!!! Mom peeled them and cooked them and made apple pie and applesauce. Yummmmm. Dirty, filthy apples touching the earth!!!!!!! Some were picked directly off the tree too. But they were probably contaminated by the air from the nearby factories. We did this with pears too. I like pears.

You are precious Tommy. Tell us, when you were supposedly in the Air Force 60 years ago, did you complain to the Seargeant that you did not have air conditioning in your bunk house? Did you complain to the base commander that the meals were not appetizing to your palate? Did you complain to your commanding officer that the latrine did not have a fresh lavender smell?

[John B.]

On Thu, 30 Jun 2022 07:15:54 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich

I don't think I said that "I brought" I think I said "She visited" but
if you show me the actual post I will apologize.

As for open markets. Yup, we have them here as well as modern "Super
Markets". But the part that you are missing is that the stuff in the
open market is fresh, not that old stuff that you are buying in the
super market. And as for poisoning someone, I can only say that I've
lived here for 50 years with no food poisoning yet (:-)

See Tommy, you are just yapping like a dog, not knowing what you are
talking about. "Yapping Dog Kunich"
--
Cheers,

John B.

[John B.]

On Thu, 30 Jun 2022 07:17:58 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich

Nope, I'm telling you that I worked for a while as an Electrical
Supervisor, in the "Low Voltage" shop.

You have problems in comprehending what you read? Or, perhaps as a
high school failure you don't read well?
--
Cheers,

John B.

[John B.]

And even worse! Apple trees and the fruit are sprayed with noxious
chemicals to protect them from bugs and such.
--
Cheers,

John B.

[ritzann...@gmail.com]

I forgot to add this. I currently live in Iowa. Iowa is known for agriculture. Among other things. But agriculture is one of the big ones. Iowa grows LOTS of corn. Corn is used as animal feed. AND to make fructose. That sugar used in almost everything. Everything processed anyway. Food. So when Tommy boy drank his Coke today, it contained fructose likely from Iowa corn. Now back to that animal feed part about corn. Iowa grows lots of corn that is fed to livestock. Iowa is also a HUGE pig state. I believe Iowa raises more pigs than any other state in the USA. Hog confinements are everywhere. Every few miles you see and smell a hog confinement out in the country. Do you know what the hogs eat? Corn grown in Iowa. Know what else the hogs make, besides pork when they are slaughtered? Manure. Hog confinements make lots and lots of manure. Do you know what is done with that manure? It is spread on fields. Actually its injected, tilled into the dirt. So Tommy boy, when you drink your Coke with fructose, you are drinking hog sh-t. Or fructose from corn grown on fields fertilized with hog sh-t. Gosh, that Thailand open air market with flies doesn't sound too bad now.

John, the apple and pear trees I am referring to, that we picked the fruit from. They were not sprayed with any chemicals. They are local trees in yards. Not commercial fruit tree farms. They were organic apple and pear trees.

[John B.]

On Thu, 30 Jun 2022 22:46:03 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"

Errr... an organic tree (:-)

I grew up in a non chemical, well pretty much non chemical, society, I
think I remember tomatoes being sprayed to kill tomato worms, but you
could eat apples right off the tree, or off the ground for that
matter. Sort of wipe them off on your shirt and gobble them.

As for manure... I wonder what Tommy thinks is done with the tons and
tons of manure from chicken cattle, pigs, or even humans - in some
countries - that is produced annually. In 1894 there were some 11,000
Hanson cabs and several thousand horse drawn "busses" in London ove5
50,000 horses used for transportation and on the average a horse
produces 15 - 35 pounds of manure a day - depending on size. 50,000 x
(say) 25 lbs = 625 tons. A day! One newspaper estimated that in 50
years every street in London would be 9 feet deep in horse manure.
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Tom Kunich]

I grew up when things were still delivered by horse and cart and John with all of that vast knowledge he has of London is going to tell us about manure when he is a pile of horseshit. It must certainly be wonderful to know about everything when you've never been anywhere or done anything and the peak of your life was being a crew chief on an obsolete propeller drive aircraft.

[ritzann...@gmail.com]

One more inexplicable statement from Tommy boy. John grew up in the Northeast. Vermont or New Hampshire. And he has been living in Thailand for the past 3-4 decades. Yet you say he has never been anywhere? As for you Tommy, you were born and raised in Oakland. Supposedly traveled to Asia during your claimed Air Force service. And have worked and lived in the Oakland area ever since. Compared to John, you have never been anywhere times two. You are still right where you started. Tommy, you need to leave home. Go, explore, live.

[John B.]

On Fri, 1 Jul 2022 07:18:52 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich

Gee Tommy, can you imagine? A horse and cart opposed to 50,000 horses
and carts. Numbers do make a difference you know.

As for obsolete aircraft... well all I can say that we were flying
actual "hot gun" missions until about 1961 and in 1953 had an airplane
shot down, by Russian Migs during a mission off N. Japan.
--
Cheers,

John B.

[John B.]

On Fri, 1 Jul 2022 15:20:20 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"

Actually it is very arguable whether Tommy ever reached "Asia" as from
his tales he was on Guam for a few months.... some 2,524 Km from Tokyo
and 3,932 km from Vietnam.

As for me (:-) Well, U.S., Japan, Vietnam, Singapore, Indonesia,
Thailand,

[ritzann...@gmail.com]

My mistake. I was assuming incorrectly that any and all islands in the Pacific west of Hawaii is Asia. Probably not. But John are you forgetting Tommy boy's latest claims to have been on a bombing flight to North Vietnam. Guessing he was one of the gunners or bomb dropper, or maybe the co-pilot. Tommy's talents and abilities are endless.

[John B.]

On Fri, 1 Jul 2022 21:01:28 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"

I don't know whether it is a mistake or not. I can't remember the
subject ever being discussed. It was just "Guam". Sort of like Hawaii
was just Hawaii (:-)

And, yes Tommy claims a large number of things that just aren't true.
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Tom Kunich]

Six months is half a year and not "a couple of months". The Air Force called it a war zone and issued me a VFW metal for it no matter how much you lie about it. The bombs and the ammunition was all live and I did fly four missions over Vietnam directly whether you want to admit it or not. You're such a nobody that you're using kilometers instead of miles to make the distances sound further than they are. I was in Japan since Okinawa is part of Japan and my Japanese friend lives there. I also flew at least one Chrome Dome mission which covered the Arctic Circle. A couple of years ago I took a cruise ship to Mexico. I've been to 13 states. You want to pretend that you have been something other than a nitwit like Frank but your pretense isn't real.

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Sat, 2 Jul 2022 14:10:05 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:

>The Air Force called it a war zone and issued me a VFW metal for it no matter how much you lie about it.

Umm... it's medal, not metal.

Did the USAF issue you a VFW medal? That's odd as the VFW (Veterans
of Foreign Wars) is an organization of former combat veterans and does
not issue either metals or medals. You have it backwards. To apply
for membership in the VFW, you need to demonstrate that you've served
on foreign soil. Proof that you received one of the medals listed is
one of the three possible proofs:
<https://vfworg-cdn.azureedge.net/-/media/VFWSite/Files/Join/One-PageEligibilitySheet.pdf?la=en&v=1&d=20210901T134522Z>
<https://www.vfw.org/join/eligibility>

Before you complain that I don't know anything about the USAF, VFW and
medals, you are correct. I don't know anything about these. However,
it seems that you don't either.


--
Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

[John B.]

On Sat, 2 Jul 2022 14:10:05 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich

As I mentioned Tommy - so much noise and so little knowledge.

To start off, there is no such "award" as an Air Force VFW metal 0r
Medal.
https://www.studyguides.af.mil/Portals/15/documents/rank_ribbons/Awards
and Decorations.pd
So, lie #1

As for your 4 missions over Vietnam.... tell us why SAC would want a
unskilled A2C to fly on a combat mission? Ballast? Vivid Imagination?
Lie #2

You flew a Chrome Dome mission? In what capacity? An Unskilled nobody
tool box carrier?
Lie #3

You've been in 13 states? So What? I've lived and worked in, lets see,
Gee, you've got me I've only lived and worked in 9 states... and lets
see... 8 foreign countries.... note the "lived and worked" as opposed
to "been to"

See Tommy (yapping dog) Kunich, the difference is I've done it while
you have only dreamed it.
--
Cheers,

John B.

[John B.]

On Sat, 02 Jul 2022 15:20:16 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>
wrote:

>On Sat, 2 Jul 2022 14:10:05 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
><cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>The Air Force called it a war zone and issued me a VFW metal for it no matter how much you lie about it.
>
>Umm... it's medal, not metal.
>
>Did the USAF issue you a VFW medal? That's odd as the VFW (Veterans
>of Foreign Wars) is an organization of former combat veterans and does
>not issue either metals or medals. You have it backwards. To apply
>for membership in the VFW, you need to demonstrate that you've served
>on foreign soil. Proof that you received one of the medals listed is
>one of the three possible proofs:
><https://vfworg-cdn.azureedge.net/-/media/VFWSite/Files/Join/One-PageEligibilitySheet.pdf?la=en&v=1&d=20210901T134522Z>
><https://www.vfw.org/join/eligibility>
>
>Before you complain that I don't know anything about the USAF, VFW and
>medals, you are correct. I don't know anything about these. However,
>it seems that you don't either.

(:-) As I pointed out in another post there is no such thing as an
Air Force VFW award, ribbon, metal, medal, whatever.

Which demonstrates, I'd say, just how much Tommy knows about what he
is talking about.
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Tom Kunich]

On Saturday, July 2, 2022 at 3:20:23 PM UTC-7, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Sat, 2 Jul 2022 14:10:05 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >The Air Force called it a war zone and issued me a VFW metal for it no matter how much you lie about it.
> Umm... it's medal, not metal.
>
> Did the USAF issue you a VFW medal? That's odd as the VFW (Veterans
> of Foreign Wars) is an organization of former combat veterans and does
> not issue either metals or medals. You have it backwards. To apply
> for membership in the VFW, you need to demonstrate that you've served
> on foreign soil. Proof that you received one of the medals listed is
> one of the three possible proofs:
> <https://vfworg-cdn.azureedge.net/-/media/VFWSite/Files/Join/One-PageEligibilitySheet.pdf?la=en&v=1&d=20210901T134522Z>
> <https://www.vfw.org/join/eligibility>
>
> Before you complain that I don't know anything about the USAF, VFW and
> medals, you are correct. I don't know anything about these. However,
> it seems that you don't either.

By the way Jeff, what did you do for your country except attempt to steal from other members of the society you live among?

[Tom Kunich]

OK, It's a VSM. I have one and you don't. Tell us again how you moved between SAC and TAC

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Sun, 3 Jul 2022 08:36:58 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:

>By the way Jeff, what did you do for your country except attempt to steal from other members of the society you live among?

It's really thoughtful of you to ask me a question, and then provide
me with the answer you wanted to hear. If you already posses your
answer, why did you bother to ask me?

Do you really think that anything I did or didn't do 50 years ago
would somehow enhance what is left of your reputation? Whether I am
evil incarnate or a modern day Mahatma Gandhi, I would have no effect
on your employment history, minimal education, and military service.
Even if you could demonstrate that I am an authorized representative
of the devil himself, that would still be insufficient to prove that
you received a "metal" from the VFW, have a life membership in the
Aeolian Yacht Club, or substantiate the massive dung heap of amazing
facts that spring forth from your fertile imagination. As you make
your bed, so must you lie on it.

If your definition of serving my country includes serving in the
military, I did nothing. To avoid getting drafted, I stayed in
college and obtained a deferment. I eventually received a BSEE.
<http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/crud/diploma-jeffl.jpg>
The closest approximation of something military was when I helped
design the AN/SRD-21 homer and AN/SRD-22 direction finder:
<http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/AN-SRD-21/>
<http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/AN-SRD-22/>
These were used by the USCG (US Coast Guard) for search and rescue.
That was in 1974 and 1975, after the draft had ended. At various
times, I attempted to obtain employment with companies that had
military contracts. That failed because I could not obtain the
required security clearance.

[Tom Kunich]

https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipNsgM9kFNr1dhnAP_mDjAJblaKuX3glKx4Wg52d

Tell me Mr. Intelligent, what does that say?

[Tom Kunich]

On Sunday, July 3, 2022 at 10:12:38 AM UTC-7, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:

Why didn't you want to bet with me? Because you know just how stupid you are?

[Jeff Liebermann]

404. That’s an error.
The requested URL was not found on this server. That’s all we know.

Keep trying. You'll get it right eventually.

[AMuzi]

First it says 'Possible security risk. Are you sure?'
OK, I'll go for it.

And then it says '404'.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[Tom Kunich]

So that means that there's nothing there. What about that $1,000 bet? You have an absolutely sure thing there so why don't you bet?

[Tom Kunich]

On Sunday, July 3, 2022 at 10:22:20 AM UTC-7, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:

Where's the bet?. You have been so successful with your being an electrical engineer and all, you shouldn't have any problem at all with an insignificant $1,000. After all, you caught me in a lie saying that I worked in Mt. View. You've caught me in so many lies you have an absolutely sure thing. So what about it?

[Tom Kunich]

So it appears that the ass that's been writing long messages about how I never did what I said I did is fri8ghtened witless that he might be discovered to be a moronic ass. He is nearly broke from the actions of his pal Biden and his lies that he is a Republican are being shown to his good buddy Scharf. Well at least Liebermann will end up with one far left friend out of this.

[Tom Kunich]

https://photos.app.goo.gl/Wf2THtDmjYaGW68g9

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Sun, 3 Jul 2022 10:16:35 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich

>Why didn't you want to bet with me?

I don't recall you asking for a wager. What were we betting on?

That's easy. I don't gamble. Besides the usual ethical reasons, my
relatives had a tendency towards compulsive and addictive behavior,
which included one compulsive gambler. Fortunately, there were no
compulsive liars in my family. I watched their actions as I was
growing up and deduced that it was a family trait. So, I did my best
to avoid temptation. I don't drink booze, I don't gamble, I don't
smoke, I currently don't do recreational drugs, and I mostly resist
the temptation to be pressured by others to drink and gamble. Since
you are apparently lacking in the ability to calculate the odds, I
suggest you avoid gambling and making bets.

> Because you know just how stupid you are?

I know exactly how smart or stupid I am. I've taken a few IQ tests in
the past and have done reasonably well. My IQ ran between 125 and
115 on the WAIS-R test. Over the years, it has decreased to the low
end of this scale due to various medical problems and the side effects
of several prescription drugs. I would guess about 110 today. I've
also run a few informal memory retention tests, which also show some
deterioration. I hate getting old.

Again, I'll remind you that any intelligence or personality faults on
my part do nothing to compensate for your problems. We're all a
checkerboard of good and bad traits and abilities. I try to look at
people for the what good they possess. You look only for the bad. You
can probably make that work, until you look in a mirror and see only
the bad in yourself.

[Tom Kunich]

Why aren't you saying anything Jeff? Your silence is deafening. Why don't you quote the club rules again. After all, I'm probably the only life member left alive. You could always email the club secretary and ask her.

Where's my bet? Then we can bet whether I worked in Mt. View. And then we can bet that I worked at Physics International. After all there ARE IRS records available. Just think of all the money you could drain from my bank account? You could be the groups most successful pin head

[Tom Kunich]

Suddenly the things you declared to be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth are now a gamble? All of your fake claims which are being exposed and the word of a donkey and not those of an elephant are beginning to catch up with you? Now it is a gamble and not a sure thing?

You are a joke. Like John, if he so easily moved between major commands there was a reason. That of course was shown with the fact that he retired as a master sergeant and not a Chief or Senior

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Sun, 3 Jul 2022 10:47:05 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:

>https://photos.app.goo.gl/Wf2THtDmjYaGW68g9

Nice, but I'm suspicious. Looks like you've had it for quite some
time. The card seems to be missing some items, like the issue date,
signature of a club officer, member number, and years of service.
These are what I would expect a membership card to look like:
<https://www.google.com/search?q=yacht+club+membership+card&tbm=isch>

Would you mind if I email a copy to the membership committee and ask
them to authenticate your membership and card?

[Tom Kunich]

On Sunday, July 3, 2022 at 11:24:36 AM UTC-7, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Sun, 3 Jul 2022 10:47:05 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >https://photos.app.goo.gl/Wf2THtDmjYaGW68g9
>
> Nice, but I'm suspicious. Looks like you've had it for quite some
> time. The card seems to be missing some items, like the issue date,
> signature of a club officer, member number, and years of service.
> These are what I would expect a membership card to look like:
> <https://www.google.com/search?q=yacht+club+membership+card&tbm=isch>
>
> Would you mind if I email a copy to the membership committee and ask
> them to authenticate your membership and card?

Then by all means since you have iron clad proof that I'm lying make me that $1,000 bet. You couldn't possibly lose could you?

[Tom Kunich]

On Sunday, July 3, 2022 at 11:24:36 AM UTC-7, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:

> On Sun, 3 Jul 2022 10:47:05 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >https://photos.app.goo.gl/Wf2THtDmjYaGW68g9
>
> Nice, but I'm suspicious. Looks like you've had it for quite some
> time. The card seems to be missing some items, like the issue date,
> signature of a club officer, member number, and years of service.
> These are what I would expect a membership card to look like:
> <https://www.google.com/search?q=yacht+club+membership+card&tbm=isch>
>
> Would you mind if I email a copy to the membership committee and ask
> them to authenticate your membership and card?

Jeff, you can do anything you like. But that is a yacht club and not your idiot ideas you're playing with. But berfore you do, why don't you make me that bet because you're absolutely certain that I am lying about it. The membership card isn't signed by a club officer so it has to be false, right? This would not be gambling - you have an absolutely sure thing.

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Sun, 3 Jul 2022 10:56:26 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> https://photos.app.goo.gl/Wf2THtDmjYaGW68g9

>Why aren't you saying anything Jeff? Your silence is deafening.

I was busy reading your insults and looking carefully at your photo.
It took you 24 hrs and I don't know how many attempts, to get the
photo posted. I'm retired and not in a hurry.

>Why don't you quote the club rules again. After all, I'm probably
>the only life member left alive. You could always email the club
>secretary and ask her.

Will do. I'm suspicious, especially since the last time the issue of
life membership appeared in RBT, you didn't mention a membership card.
I have the club email address or I can use the web form. I'll let you
know what happens. Might a be a delay due to the holiday.

>Where's my bet? Then we can bet whether I worked in Mt. View.

You didn't read what I wrote. I don't gamble or bet. Incidentally,
you haven't disclosed when and for what company you worked in Mountain
View. Be sure to add it to your LinkedIn resume.

>And then we can bet that I worked at Physics International.

If you can prove you worked at any of the companies that are NOT
listed on your resume, I'll be glad to entertain the possibility that
you might have told the truth.

>After all there ARE IRS records available.

I can see you've never done business with the IRS. The statutory
limit on IRS keeping your tax returns is 10 years. You can request
copies of returns from the IRS, but only back 10 years. You last
employment (Forward Innovations) listed on your resume was a few
months in 2014, which would be the last tax return you could request
from the IRS. I could obtain your income history from SSA (social
security admin) but it would only include your annual income, not the
names of your employers. You can send me your copies of your tax
records any time you find convenient.

Incidentally, the IRS now uses ID.me to authenticate queries for
information. It was quite an ordeal to convince to pass the obstacle
course of information desired by ID.me in order to obtain copies of my
own records. Give yourself a day or two to get it done and be
prepared for a video chat interview with someone from ID.me.

>Just think of all
>the money you could drain from my bank account? You could be the groups most successful pin head

Is that a question?

I don't think about draining money from your bank account because
there probably isn't enough left to justify the effort.

[Tom Kunich]

Among other things you seem to have trouble keeping up NASA Ames is in Mt. View. Or perhaps that is another thing you missed like believing a plastic membership card would have a signature on it or that a 23 page resume reduced to 3 pages could show every job I worked at. There is a serious problem in your head but at least you have enough sense not to lose all of your money betting on the stupid ideas you have. Tell me again about how I didn't work on a 6 million electron volt machine at Physics International because you can't find a patent for something like that. I enjoy you making an absolute ass out of yourself.

[ritzann...@gmail.com]

So that is why those weaklings in the Tour de France use kilometers. The 2022 race is 3328 kilometers over 21 stages. That is much more impressive sounding than a pitiful 2067 miles. Losers. The average stage is only 98.4 miles!!!!! They can't even average 100 miles per stage!!!!! Losers times two.

> I was in Japan since Okinawa is part of Japan and my Japanese friend lives there. I also flew at least one Chrome Dome mission which covered the Arctic Circle. A couple of years ago I took a cruise ship to Mexico. I've been to 13 states. You want to pretend that you have been something other than a nitwit like Frank but your pretense isn't real.

Just 13 states? You're not well traveled at all. Your comment caused me to look at the map and count up all of the states I've been in. 30 is my total.

[ritzann...@gmail.com]

On Sunday, July 3, 2022 at 12:12:38 PM UTC-5, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Sun, 3 Jul 2022 08:36:58 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >By the way Jeff, what did you do for your country except attempt to steal from other members of the society you live among?
> It's really thoughtful of you to ask me a question, and then provide
> me with the answer you wanted to hear. If you already posses your
> answer, why did you bother to ask me?
>
> Do you really think that anything I did or didn't do 50 years ago
> would somehow enhance what is left of your reputation? Whether I am
> evil incarnate or a modern day Mahatma Gandhi, I would have no effect
> on your employment history, minimal education, and military service.
> Even if you could demonstrate that I am an authorized representative
> of the devil himself,

Jeff, would the "devil", who I assume is corrupt, bother to get an "authorized" representative? Seems to me an "unauthorized" representative would be more in keeping with the devil and his reputation.

[John B.]

On Sun, 3 Jul 2022 13:28:30 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich

But Tommy, is sweeping the floor and emptying waste paper bins "work
on a 6 million electron volt machine"?
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Tom Kunich]

Tell me what you know about Physics International and what they did in the 60's

[John B.]

On Sun, 3 Jul 2022 11:03:33 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich

You keep talking about this moving between major commands, were you
really in the Air Force? I ask as I knew, probably hundreds, if not
thousands, that moved from one major command to another, particularly
when being transferred overseas.

Or is it simply yet another indication of your ignorance?
--
Cheers,

John B.

[John B.]

On Sun, 3 Jul 2022 15:58:56 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich

Physics International publishes a magazine
https://thescipub.com/pi

And you swept the floor.
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Sun, 3 Jul 2022 15:09:40 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"
<ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Sunday, July 3, 2022 at 12:12:38 PM UTC-5, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
>> Do you really think that anything I did or didn't do 50 years ago
>> would somehow enhance what is left of your reputation? Whether I am
>> evil incarnate or a modern day Mahatma Gandhi, I would have no effect
>> on your employment history, minimal education, and military service.
>> Even if you could demonstrate that I am an authorized representative
>> of the devil himself,

>Jeff, would the "devil", who I assume is corrupt, bother to get an "authorized" representative? Seems to me an "unauthorized" representative would be more in keeping with the devil and his reputation.

The Christian god has angels while the devil has the Hell's Angels. I
believe both consider themselves to be authorized representatives of
their respective lords. With very little imagination, they could be
equivalent rank. Interesting how heaven was organized in the same
manner as a feudal hierarchy. Hell was probably structured in the
manner of "Don Juan in Hell" by George Bernard Shaw, where the devil
was a study in suppressed fire and brimstone and considered God to be
a competing collector of human souls. Under the circumstance,
unauthorized representatives would quickly be found by the omniscient
and omnipresent God and summarily dealt with in a manner intended to
discourage duplication and repetition. The devil would probably do
the same. I'm not sure what they might do with the undecided and
unrepentant. Probably a vacation in limbo for a few eternities.

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Sun, 3 Jul 2022 13:28:30 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:

>Tell me again about how I didn't work on a 6 million electron volt machine at Physics International...

Electron volts? MeV is a measure of energy in joules.
6 MeV is equal to 9.6*10-13 joules. That's tiny, really tiny. 6 MeV
about the energy needed for a house fly to walk one step or the energy
acquired by a single electron falling through a potential of 636
volts. Try using these charts to get a feel for the energy
magnitudes:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orders_of_magnitude_(energy)>
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronvolt>

I seem to recall you mentioned that you did "science". If so, you
seem to be lacking in the basics.

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Sun, 3 Jul 2022 15:58:56 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:

>Tell me what you know about Physics International and what they did in the 60's

In 1960, you were 16 years old.

[John B.]

On Sun, 03 Jul 2022 18:18:13 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>
wrote:

>On Sun, 3 Jul 2022 15:58:56 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
><cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Tell me what you know about Physics International and what they did in the 60's
>
>In 1960, you were 16 years old.

Perhaps he was a "child prodigy". Defined as a child who produces
meaningful output in some domain to the level of an adult expert.

Probably why he never bothered to finish high school.
--
Cheers,

John B.

[John B.]

On Sun, 03 Jul 2022 18:15:02 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>
wrote:

>On Sun, 3 Jul 2022 13:28:30 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
><cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Tell me again about how I didn't work on a 6 million electron volt machine at Physics International...
>
>Electron volts? MeV is a measure of energy in joules.
>6 MeV is equal to 9.6*10-13 joules. That's tiny, really tiny. 6 MeV
>about the energy needed for a house fly to walk one step or the energy
>acquired by a single electron falling through a potential of 636
>volts. Try using these charts to get a feel for the energy
>magnitudes:
><https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orders_of_magnitude_(energy)>
><https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronvolt>
>
>I seem to recall you mentioned that you did "science". If so, you
>seem to be lacking in the basics.

But "science" can be interpreted as "ability to produce solutions in
some problem domain". Perhaps, even at a tender age, he was a genius
at mopping floors and emptying waste paper baskets.
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Frank Krygowski]

My count: I've traveled to 48 states so far, and bicycled in 47 of those. I tend to lose count of the other countries I've visited and cycled in,
but it's about ten or twelve. There's only one country that I've visited but not bicycled - if you can call riding a train through a country
"visiting."

- Frank Krygowski

[Frank Krygowski]

On Sunday, July 3, 2022 at 6:53:48 PM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
>
> But Tommy, is sweeping the floor and emptying waste paper bins "work
> on a 6 million electron volt machine"?

Millions of volts are not necessarily difficult. Anyone can buy one of these.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_de_Graaff_generator

- Frank Krygowski

[ritzann...@gmail.com]

On Sunday, July 3, 2022 at 8:18:21 PM UTC-5, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Sun, 3 Jul 2022 15:58:56 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >Tell me what you know about Physics International and what they did in the 60's
> In 1960, you were 16 years old.

One year shy of dropping out of high school.