Next step in electronic gear systems

[AMuzi]

https://bikerumor.com/sram-self-charging-auto-shifting-rear-derailleur/
--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Thu, 19 Jan 2023 14:19:52 -0600, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>https://bikerumor.com/sram-self-charging-auto-shifting-rear-derailleur/

Sigh. One giant step backwards. I was rather hoping that the
industry was moving in the direction of a central battery, optional
charging system, and a wired power distribution bus. I would even
have tolerated a dynamo for charging. However, installing a dynamo
and generator in the derailleur means duplicating the battery and
charging system for every device that needs power. So much for my
hopes. Instead, SRAM patents something that resembles the Antikythera
Mechanism (See Fig 30 and 31) in complexity:
<https://www.google.com/search?q=antikythera+mechanism&tbm=isch>
It's almost like SRAM is trying to do everything that the eBike
industry is NOT doing.


--
Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

[Roger Merriman]

Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 19 Jan 2023 14:19:52 -0600, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>
>> https://bikerumor.com/sram-self-charging-auto-shifting-rear-derailleur/
>
> Sigh. One giant step backwards. I was rather hoping that the
> industry was moving in the direction of a central battery, optional
> charging system, and a wired power distribution bus. I would even
> have tolerated a dynamo for charging. However, installing a dynamo
> and generator in the derailleur means duplicating the battery and
> charging system for every device that needs power. So much for my
> hopes. Instead, SRAM patents something that resembles the Antikythera
> Mechanism (See Fig 30 and 31) in complexity:
> <https://www.google.com/search?q=antikythera+mechanism&tbm=isch>
> It's almost like SRAM is trying to do everything that the eBike
> industry is NOT doing.
>
>

Yup, not that I have any electronic groupsets! All of mine is mechanical
though I do have lights and a Garmin though only the rear lights have no
useful power indicators, the others do plus long life, so are generally
easy to live with.

I’ve noted that E bikes can power lights, and possibly other electric bits.

And I think one of the endurance bikes came out recently with central
battery for lights plus radar.

Which is interesting technology not one I need or want but certainly
interested!

Roger Merriman

[Tom Kunich]

Seems like a good idea but that still leaves the front derailleur and levers battery powered.

[Lou Holtman]

Shimano solved the issue a long time ago with one big internal central battery and internal cable routing. The refined it lately by sending the shift commands wireless and get rid of the most difficult to install cables. Sram made the choice to make it full wireless from the beginning needing multiple small batteries. With Shimano you don’t have worry about the battery, with Sram you do.

Lou

[Tom Kunich]

It is impossible to remove the generator drag so consider: ALL of the Aero additions to a bike frame other than the wheels will probably add at least or more drag than the generator and gearing to connect it.

[Tom Kunich]

I wonder if in the Tour de France we'll see people with jammers freezing the shifting at critical points?

[AMuzi]

On 1/19/2023 2:34 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Thu, 19 Jan 2023 14:19:52 -0600, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>
>> https://bikerumor.com/sram-self-charging-auto-shifting-rear-derailleur/
>
> Sigh. One giant step backwards. I was rather hoping that the
> industry was moving in the direction of a central battery, optional
> charging system, and a wired power distribution bus. I would even
> have tolerated a dynamo for charging. However, installing a dynamo
> and generator in the derailleur means duplicating the battery and
> charging system for every device that needs power. So much for my
> hopes. Instead, SRAM patents something that resembles the Antikythera
> Mechanism (See Fig 30 and 31) in complexity:
> <https://www.google.com/search?q=antikythera+mechanism&tbm=isch>
> It's almost like SRAM is trying to do everything that the eBike
> industry is NOT doing.
>
>

Here's your opportunity to design SRAM right out of the
market with your new product!
Or, to set them straight and cash out nicely as a
consultant. Either method works.

[Lou Holtman]

Lot of design choices are because of patents of the competitor. Sram unique selling point is wireless. From a customer point of view I don’t understand this. I much prefer the Shimano solution. Once installed there is not much difference for the user/customer except that he doesn’t have to recharge the small batteries every 400 km (according to a colleague of mine).

Lou

[Andre Jute]

On Friday, January 20, 2023 at 8:01:15 AM UTC, lou.h...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> Lot of design choices are because of patents of the competitor. Sram unique selling point is wireless. From a customer point of view I don’t understand this. I much prefer the Shimano solution. Once installed there is not much difference for the user/customer except that he doesn’t have to recharge the small batteries every 400 km (according to a colleague of mine).
>
> Lou
>

IIRC, my Shimano Smover system, on a bike from Trek Benelux, didn't have a battery for the gear change at all, though the literature, presumably translated from Japanese to Dutch before I in turn translated it to English, spoke of a "battery". But in fact it was a capacitor in the "computer" under the downtube. The generator hub charged it up, it discharged itself changing the gears, and there might have been a 2032 coin battery in the handlebar control unit to power its display; I do not in several years of using the system every day remember a single glitch in the gear change or in the readout, nor changing the 2032 for the display. I conclude from all this that changing bicycle gears don't require high levels of current, but that the auxiliaries may be a little more demanding. You (Lou) have no doubt seen many of these Smover Di2 systems on the Gazelle Saphir and others, so the link is for everyone else:
http://coolmainpress.com/BICYCLINGsmover.html
>
Andre Jute
I confess, I'm a technofreak.
>