Fuck Amazon

[Tom Kunich]

I've been buying small parts from Amazon like quick chain links, seatpost binder bolts and handlebar tape.

Today A charge appeared on my account for $100 and there is NO WAY to cancel this item which is a Xbox game if I read it correctly. Furthermore there is NO WAY to call and contact Amazon directly.

Yesterday I contacted them and they said that they would remove this item from my account and then send me a notification. I never got a notification and there is no way to cancel this from my end. And it shows now that I bought it today and there is no longer a method to contact Amazon directly.

If you go to the offending item it has a list of complaints like "Where is my Item" and the like but no means to delete this item.

It doesn't seem to have been charged to my bank yet and if I go to the bank they will AGAIN cancel my card and send another by the end of the week but that leaves me without a card for a week,

I also cannot find a means to totally cancel my Amazon account.

Have any of you been running into these problems?

[AMuzi]

I can't hep with Amazon specifically as I've never shopped
there or purchased anything.

But Federal law protects you as a consumer for unauthorized
credit card charges. Call your card carrier bank and nicely
ask them to remove the charge as a disputed transaction.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[Joerg]

Yup. That's what I once did with Lowe's because they were recalcitrant
about it. Haven't shopped there again in years, and likely never will.
This is a sure-fire way to lose customers.

With Amazon it takes a bit of persistence and you have to call them.
Lately they started doing returns via their Wholefoods places, no more
free pickup. They made me drive there even though it was a defective
item _they_ sent. Then they back-charged me because they "never got the
returned item". The employee at Wholefoods didn't want to give me a
receipt when I asked so you don't have proof. I told them I want this
reversed pronto and they did. A lot of hassle but at least they did the
right thing.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

[Tom Kunich]

As I said, it hasn't shown up on my bank account yet and if I talk to them they have ONE remedy - they immediately cancel my credit card and issue a new one and they I have to wait for it to arrive, call the bank to turn it on and then update the new cards on Paypal and Amazon. I will simply stop my Amazon account.

I found a way to contact Amazon direct via a string of menus and the guy said he couldn't do anything himself but will send me a link. After I get this straightened out I will simply cancel my Amazon account.

The LINK is also a dead end. It says that if there is unauthorized activity contact customer service. But it doesn't offer any way to do that. Finally going back through all of the menus oit tells me that this item is not returnable. I am getting the idea that this was a free item. But why don't they SAY it's free? Instead it says that it is $100 charge to my credit card

[Tom Kunich]

Now I have to find a way to cancel my account.

[Tom Kunich]

Again going through a long string of menus my Amazon account is canceled and I will NEVER make another account with those bastards Fuck Amazon

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Mon, 6 Mar 2023 13:05:17 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
<cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:

>Today A charge appeared on my account for $100 and there is NO WAY to cancel this item which is a Xbox game if I read it correctly. Furthermore there is NO WAY to call and contact Amazon directly.
>
>Yesterday I contacted them and they said that they would remove this item from my account and then send me a notification. I never got a notification and there is no way to cancel this from my end.

The order might be a fake confirmation. Did you check your Amazon
order history to verify if the charge has appeared on your account? If
not, it's likely a fake order. If you clicked on the link in the
email, you probably have logged into a fake Amazon web site run by
whomever sent you the fake order confirmation. They now have your
login and password, so I would recommend contacting Amazon and have
them change your password.

>And it shows now that I bought it today...

What is "it"? Is "it" the email your received, the fake Amazon web
page your went to, or the real Amazon web site?

>and there is no longer a method to contact Amazon directly.

"Amazon Payments Unauthorized Transaction Policy"
<https://pay.amazon.com/help/201212450>
The phone number is (866)216-1075

Of course, you'll announce that it was the real Amazon, that you were
not fooled by a phishing attempt, and that you never accept advice
from anyone less than a credentialed expert. Fine. Just change your
password and fix the problem by calling Amazon on the phone. You'll
probably find some settings on your Amazon account have changed. If
you have Amazon "one click ordering" enabled, you may find some bogus
charges on your credit card(s).

"Identifying Whether an Email, Phone Call, Text Message, or Webpage is
from Amazon"
<https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=G4YFYCCNUSENA23B>




--
Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Mon, 06 Mar 2023 16:21:54 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>
wrote:

>"Identifying Whether an Email, Phone Call, Text Message, or Webpage is
>from Amazon"
><https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=G4YFYCCNUSENA23B>

This is what an Amazon phishing email might look like:
<https://www.rd.com/article/amazon-email-scam/>

FTC Data Spotlight on scammers impersonating Amazon:
<https://www.ftc.gov/business-guidance/blog/2021/10/ftc-data-spotlight-scammers-impersonating-amazon-how-businesses-can-reduce-injury-consumers>

[John B.]

On Mon, 06 Mar 2023 16:21:54 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>
wrote:

Years ago I got charged for a false meal at a restaurant I had never
visited. With much to and froing I got the charge cancelled but since
then I have done business in cash.

I'm guessing that this may be difficult in the U.S. but thankfully the
strange foreign country, where I reside, will still accept cash :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

[funkma...@hotmail.com]

On Monday, March 6, 2023 at 7:22:08 PM UTC-5, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Mon, 6 Mar 2023 13:05:17 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >Today A charge appeared on my account for $100 and there is NO WAY to cancel this item which is a Xbox game if I read it correctly. Furthermore there is NO WAY to call and contact Amazon directly.
> >
> >Yesterday I contacted them and they said that they would remove this item from my account and then send me a notification. I never got a notification and there is no way to cancel this from my end.
> The order might be a fake confirmation. Did you check your Amazon
> order history to verify if the charge has appeared on your account? If
> not, it's likely a fake order. If you clicked on the link in the
> email, you probably have logged into a fake Amazon web site run by
> whomever sent you the fake order confirmation. They now have your
> login and password, so I would recommend contacting Amazon and have
> them change your password.

That was my first thought too, but AFAIC tommy deserves whatever scams he falls for. Remember that he responded to a bot on this forum not too recently, and more than once. IT's no surprise he would fall for a fake confirmation and didn't notice the return link didn't even have 'amazon' in the address anywhere.

>
> >And it shows now that I bought it today...
>
> What is "it"? Is "it" the email your received, the fake Amazon web
> page your went to, or the real Amazon web site?
> >and there is no longer a method to contact Amazon directly.
> "Amazon Payments Unauthorized Transaction Policy"
> <https://pay.amazon.com/help/201212450>
> The phone number is (866)216-1075
>
> Of course, you'll announce that it was the real Amazon, that you were
> not fooled by a phishing attempt, and that you never accept advice
> from anyone less than a credentialed expert. Fine. Just change your
> password and fix the problem by calling Amazon on the phone. You'll
> probably find some settings on your Amazon account have changed. If
> you have Amazon "one click ordering" enabled, you may find some bogus
> charges on your credit card(s).
>
> "Identifying Whether an Email, Phone Call, Text Message, or Webpage is
> from Amazon"
> <https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=G4YFYCCNUSENA23B>

I've never had any problems cancelling orders or getting refunds from Amazon. On a tangent, I like to shop on amazon, find the item I'm looking for, then buy it somewhere else (either at the vendors website or another on-line retailer), because - fuck amazon...

[funkma...@hotmail.com]

I have seen food vendors (not restaurants) that don't accept cash. They are exceptionally few and far between. I haven't a restaurant yet that doesn't accept cash. Not that there aren't any, just that I have never been to one.

Cancelling bogus CC orders is a simple call to the company. I recently got charged for two Door Dash orders I didn't make. Both were in Madison Wisconsin. I have phone txt alerts for every transaction, and the first charge came in for over $200 bucks at an noodle place. While I was on the phone with the credit card company explaining that I live in Massachusetts and I was in fact calling from my office in Massachusetts so it wasn't likely that I was ordering asian food in Madison, another text message came in showing another Door Dash order, this time for over $400 at a different asian food restaurant in Madison. The agent confirmed it had just popped up on her screen as well, so she denied the charges and cancelled the card.

[Roger Meriman]

Indeed suspect E mails i open the amazon app or similar to check it’s one
of the oldest tricks in the book!

Roger Merriman

[Tom Kunich]

This was absolutely not the case. It was, I believe a free gift of some sort because I wasn't allowed to return it and no money was ever extracted from my account. But it appeared to be a purchase and they mentioned my credit card number. If this was a scam it was done by an Amazon employee,

[Roger Meriman]

Not impossible to have got your card number if you’ve been scammed before.

But either way it would show in orders etc within your Amazon account if
legit if not it’s not realisticly.

Roger Merriman

[Frank Krygowski]

On 3/7/2023 5:27 AM, funkma...@hotmail.com wrote:
> On Monday, March 6, 2023 at 7:57:14 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
>> On Mon, 06 Mar 2023 16:21:54 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>
>>

>> I'm guessing that this may be difficult in the U.S. but thankfully the
>> strange foreign country, where I reside, will still accept cash :-)
>> --
>
> I have seen food vendors (not restaurants) that don't accept cash. They are exceptionally few and far between. I haven't a restaurant yet that doesn't accept cash. Not that there aren't any, just that I have never been to one.

Our favorite restaurant, a tiny family-owned place, has a new sign. If
you pay by credit card, they tack on a 3.5% surcharge.

--
- Frank Krygowski

[Jeff Liebermann]

You're welcome. May you rot in the hell of your own creation.

If it was a free gift, why are you so concerned about your credit
card? You wouldn't be paying for a free gift. If they wanted money
for shipping, taxes and handling, that's a different story. Such
phishing email is also quite common. They get your credit card number
to pay for the shipping, taxes and handling. You "sign" an online
contract which nobody reads. In the fine print, will be a clause
indicating that you are signed up for some type of service or product
at a fairly high price, recurring charges or both. When you try to
cancel payment, your credit card company will rightly claim that you
initiated a valid transaction, which is not considered fraud, and that
the bank is not responsible for your actions. Don't ask me how I
know.

>If this was a scam it was done by an Amazon employee,

Of course. There's no possible way the problem could be your fault
for misunderstanding a phishing email. Someone (else) must be blamed.

[funkma...@hotmail.com]

+1
LOL

[sms]

On 3/6/2023 4:57 PM, John B. wrote:

<snip>

> Years ago I got charged for a false meal at a restaurant I had never
> visited. With much to and froing I got the charge cancelled but since
> then I have done business in cash.
>
> I'm guessing that this may be difficult in the U.S. but thankfully the
> strange foreign country, where I reside, will still accept cash :-)

Most restaurants in the U.S. will still take cash, though often
reluctantly. Others have a machine where you can use cash to purchase a
prepaid card that you can use. Lately I've seen more restaurants with
"No Cash" signs, but it's still a small number, maybe 5%. It increased
during Covid. There are still a few restaurants that are cash only too,
because they don't want to declare all their income.

The issue for these restaurants is the labor costs and the other
associated costs involved with dealing with cash (theft, counterfeit
bills, armored car service, bank fees, etc.). More and more places want
you to order and pay using your phone because it reduces labor costs.

One restaurant near where my daughter lives in the Bay Area "WE ACCEPT:
VISA, MASTERCARD & DISCOVER NO AMEX, NO CASH."
<http://www.saulsdeli.com/>. Most of the Costco food courts no longer
accept cash though you can go to a regular cashier and order food if you
really want to pay cash.

[sms]

On 3/6/2023 4:21 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

<snip>

> The order might be a fake confirmation. Did you check your Amazon
> order history to verify if the charge has appeared on your account? If
> not, it's likely a fake order. If you clicked on the link in the
> email, you probably have logged into a fake Amazon web site run by
> whomever sent you the fake order confirmation. They now have your
> login and password, so I would recommend contacting Amazon and have
> them change your password.

I've had to call Amazon on the phone a couple of times. Once they showed
a package as delivered and sent a photo of it on my front doorstep, only
it was the front doorstep of some other house. There was no way to solve
this other than calling them, and they took care of it.

Amazon doesn't really like phone calls and they don't prominently
display their customer service phone numbers: (888) 280-4331 and (206)
922-0880.

[John B.]

On Tue, 7 Mar 2023 16:53:30 -0800, sms <scharf...@geemail.com>
wrote:

It is certainly true that the cost of running a business with cash is
much higher then running one with "charge cards" -
"Research and advisory firm, IHL Group, estimates that cash
transactions cost anywhere between 4.7-15.3 percent of the value of
the cash. Note they are costs versus third party fees."

But from the consumer's point of view, "I don't care!" Well, unless
the business were to lower their prices by 4.7 - 15.3%, which they
don' seem to do :-)

Or perhaps I should say that , "here at least the cost, whether paid
by credit or cash is the same" :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Wed, 08 Mar 2023 08:07:25 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>
wrote:
(chomp)
There are also a growing number of self-checkout stores. Credit card
only, no cash, no cashier. Usually, there's an attendant available if
something doesn't go according to plan.

"Nobody likes self-checkout. Here’s why it’s everywhere"
(July 10, 2022)
<https://www.cnn.com/2022/07/09/business/self-checkout-retail/index.html>

There's also a system that doesn't require a credit card or cash. The
cart keeps track of purchases. The vendor sends you the bill,
bypassing the credit card company:
<https://www.supermarketnews.com/retail-financial/amazon-unveils-upgraded-dash-cart>
<https://www.amazon.com/b?node=21289116011>

"A New Type Of Self-Checkout Where No Scanning Is Required"
<https://www.forbes.com/sites/laurendebter/2022/06/02/coming-to-stores-a-new-type-of-self-checkout-where-no-scanning-is-required/?sh=38572e6e424c>

[AMuzi]

On 3/7/2023 7:58 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Wed, 08 Mar 2023 08:07:25 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> (chomp)
> There are also a growing number of self-checkout stores. Credit card
> only, no cash, no cashier. Usually, there's an attendant available if
> something doesn't go according to plan.
>
> "Nobody likes self-checkout. Here’s why it’s everywhere"
> (July 10, 2022)
> <https://www.cnn.com/2022/07/09/business/self-checkout-retail/index.html>
>
> There's also a system that doesn't require a credit card or cash. The
> cart keeps track of purchases. The vendor sends you the bill,
> bypassing the credit card company:
> <https://www.supermarketnews.com/retail-financial/amazon-unveils-upgraded-dash-cart>
> <https://www.amazon.com/b?node=21289116011>
>
> "A New Type Of Self-Checkout Where No Scanning Is Required"
> <https://www.forbes.com/sites/laurendebter/2022/06/02/coming-to-stores-a-new-type-of-self-checkout-where-no-scanning-is-required/?sh=38572e6e424c>
>
>

Suit yourself. Choice is good.

A National Brand grocery near me, which I passed after
morning coffee for years, changed over to robots, sacking
two sweet old ladies who ran the registers on the early
shift. I haven't been there since. There are customer
friendly groceries still in the area.

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Tue, 07 Mar 2023 20:17:12 -0600, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 3/7/2023 7:58 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>> On Wed, 08 Mar 2023 08:07:25 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> (chomp)
>> There are also a growing number of self-checkout stores. Credit card
>> only, no cash, no cashier. Usually, there's an attendant available if
>> something doesn't go according to plan.
>>
>> "Nobody likes self-checkout. Here’s why it’s everywhere"
>> (July 10, 2022)
>> <https://www.cnn.com/2022/07/09/business/self-checkout-retail/index.html>
>>
>> There's also a system that doesn't require a credit card or cash. The
>> cart keeps track of purchases. The vendor sends you the bill,
>> bypassing the credit card company:
>> <https://www.supermarketnews.com/retail-financial/amazon-unveils-upgraded-dash-cart>
>> <https://www.amazon.com/b?node=21289116011>
>>
>> "A New Type Of Self-Checkout Where No Scanning Is Required"
>> <https://www.forbes.com/sites/laurendebter/2022/06/02/coming-to-stores-a-new-type-of-self-checkout-where-no-scanning-is-required/?sh=38572e6e424c>

>Suit yourself.

I didn't suggest that I like or use self-checkout. At this time, I'm
undecided.

>Choice is good.

Indecision is the key to flexibility.

>A National Brand grocery near me, which I passed after
>morning coffee for years, changed over to robots, sacking
>two sweet old ladies who ran the registers on the early
>shift. I haven't been there since. There are customer
>friendly groceries still in the area.

The main benefit of self-checking is suppose to be reduced costs and
labor. I know a local small grocery store that tried self-checkout.
They were expecting all the horror stories found on the internet:
<https://duckduckgo.com/?q=disadvantages+of+self+checkout>
Most didn't happen. Instead, they discovered that the machines were
not very reliable, maintenance costs on the equipment was much more
than originally estimated, downtime was catastrophic to sales, dealing
with spills was tricky, badly self-packed bags resulted in damage
complaints, and scanning errors were very common. Also, keeping the
machinery clean was difficult.

I think self-checkout systems have been around for at least 10 years.
They seem to show signs of improvement but have a long way to go. To
be successful, they need to take the customer out of the process,
which by the definition of self-checkout, isn't going to happen.

[AMuzi]

In my old neighborhood it was untenable at the first grocery
to try it as some significant amount of merchandise rolled
out without scans. There were enough scumbags to kill that
program in a few months.

[Jeff Liebermann]

Locally, both Costco and Safeway have someone assisting shoppers at
the self-checkout stations while trying to identify theft. Costco has
people at the exits to verify that everything in the cart appears on
the receipt. There's nothing similar at Safeway.

The small local grocery store I mentioned also may have had a problem
with sabotage by employees worried about losing their jobs to
automation. It's possible, but I doubt it. The reason the store
tried self-checkout was that they couldn't find enough checkers that
were willing to work during the pandemic. The two self-checkout
stations are still there, both with signs indicating that they're out
of order.

[Lou Holtman]

On Wednesday, March 8, 2023 at 3:45:44 AM UTC+1, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Tue, 07 Mar 2023 20:17:12 -0600, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote: .

> The main benefit of self-checking is suppose to be reduced costs and
> labor.

From the customer point of view it is faster. Doing groceries is not my hobby so faster is better. At the entrance I scan my customer card, take out the designated handscanner, scan every item and put it directly in my shopping bag/crate, at the exit I put back the handscanner, at the checkout terminal I scan my customer card again and can pay directly with my phone. Super fast because you don’t have to wait in line , put all your items from the shopping cart onto the conveyer belt, let it scan by the cashier, pay and put the items from the conveyer belt in your shopping bag (here we have to do that ourselves). This is for me a too time consuming system. People can choose because we also a cashiers were you still can pay cash.

Lou

[Tom Kunich]

I will forever after do all of my shopping for bicycle related items from my local bike shops. These small items perhaps are more expensive and bothersome for the shops to stock so they will have to order them for me from the manufacturers but Amazon has shown their worth to me one time too many. I just looked in my bank account and sure enough they had fraudulently charged me for an X-box gift card. I just got off of the phone after reporting that as Fraud and canceling my credit card and ordering a new one.

To show you the idiocy of Amazon, the purchase was dated the 6th, and they said that it had been more than 24 hours since I purchased it so they could not refund it.

At this point Amazon has shown that not only is their account security total crap, but that they are willing to commit fraud on their customers.

[Tom Kunich]

I can't see them automating grocery stores since produce has too many tags fall off. And improving the glue then tears the produce upon removal. Also, you have to be 21q to purchase alcohol which requires a person to verify ID. Drugs most absolutely cannot be dispensed automatically.

[Frank Krygowski]

The U.S. system I've seen is far different and far less efficient. I use
the self check only under duress - as if, I'm in a hurry and management
has only two conventional checkouts, both with long lines.

I've never used the system at the few places I have a customer card.
There is no scanner to use while shopping. Instead, I choose items to
buy and, if necessary, pile them in a cart, then go to check out.

I scan each item and put it into a bag. I believe the bag holder may
have a scale to check for blatant theft, but I'm not sure.

If I have a vegetable, I have to dive into a menu system to locate the
icon for that vegetable. That's a delay. If I buy any alcohol, the
system will call for someone to verify my age. A person will eventually
arrive after a longer delay. If there is a glitch of any kind, which has
been common, there's more delay until someone comes to fix it.

I then navigate through a series of unfamiliar menu choices to pay using
my credit card. I spend time searching for the credit card insertion
slot and figuring out the proper orientation (the machines are very
inconsistent), I pay and leave.

The process is faster if I'm buying only one or two simple items. If I
have more, it's faster only because the normal checkout lines are so few
and so long. And I feel disgruntled because I have done a bunch of work
that used to provide a person with a job.

--
- Frank Krygowski