Inch-pitch is for sissies
carl...@comcast.net
& 1-4 inch pitch used on the Waltham company's special chain and
sprocket construction forms the most notable exception."
--Cycling Life, 1897
http://www.archive.org/stream/cyclinglife00test#page/n1307/mode/1up
Cheers,
Carl Fogel
jbr...@sonic.net
> --Cycling Life, 1897
http://www.archive.org/stream/cyclinglife00test#page/n1307/mode/1up
Good to see that "snake oil" was popular in bicycling more than 150
years ago. I wonder whether the customer base was as gullible as they
are today, be that about carbon fiber or saddles with holes and slots
in them as well as riding technique... always spinning at over 100RPM.
--
Jobst Brandt
James
> Carl Fogel wrote:
>
>> "One inch pitch is still the almost invariable rule, from which the
>> 1 & 1-4 inch pitch used on the Waltham company's special chain and
>> sprocket construction forms the most notable exception."
>
>> --Cycling Life, 1897
>
> http://www.archive.org/stream/cyclinglife00test#page/n1307/mode/1up
>
> Good to see that "snake oil" was popular in bicycling more than 150
> years ago.
People use Goanna oil here.
http://www.grabthegoanna.com/goanna-products/goanna-rubs/goanna-oil-liniment
JS.
jbr...@sonic.net
>>> --Cycling Life, 1897
>> http://www.archive.org/stream/cyclinglife00test#page/n1307/mode/1up
http://www.grabthegoanna.com/goanna-products/goanna-rubs/goanna-oil-liniment
I hope you are aware the "Snake Oil" is a mythical substance used by
quack doctors in the old west. There is no "snake oil". However, the
web site does not hint at what "Goanna" oil is or contains. It sounds
like so much "Snake oil" to me.
--
Jobst Brandt
Friar Broccoli
> James Steward wrote:
> >>> "One inch pitch is still the almost invariable rule, from which
> >>> the 1 & 1-4 inch pitch used on the Waltham company's special chain
> >>> and sprocket construction forms the most notable exception."
> >>> --Cycling Life, 1897
> >> http://www.archive.org/stream/cyclinglife00test#page/n1307/mode/1up
> >> Good to see that "snake oil" was popular in bicycling more than 150
> >> years ago.
> > People use Goanna oil here.
.
> http://www.grabthegoanna.com/goanna-products/goanna-rubs/goanna-oil-l...
>
> I hope you are aware the "Snake Oil" is a mythical substance used by
> quack doctors in the old west. There is no "snake oil". However, the
> web site does not hint at what "Goanna" oil is or contains. It sounds
> like so much "Snake oil" to me.
WRONG !!!
It's lizard oil:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goanna
Tºm Shermªn™ °_°
> Carl Fogel wrote:
>
>> "One inch pitch is still the almost invariable rule, from which the
>> sprocket construction forms the most notable exception."
>
>> --Cycling Life, 1897
>
> http://www.archive.org/stream/cyclinglife00test#page/n1307/mode/1up
>
> Good to see that "snake oil" was popular in bicycling more than 150
I get 114 years from 1897 to 2011.
--
Tºm Shermªn - 42.435731,-83.985007
I am a vehicular cyclist.
James
Yes, well aware that "Snake Oil" is mythical, like rocking horse shit
and hens teeth.
Modern day "Goanna Oil" is a product brand name and has the following
active ingredients (from the website).
* Methyl Salicylate 4.2% w/w
* Turpentine Oil 4.2% w/w
* Eucalyptus Oil 2.5% w/w
* Camphor 0.83% w/w
* Peppermint Oil 0.42%
* Pine Oil Pumilio 2.5% w/w
* Menthol 0.17% w/w
And behold, no goannas in sight!
However, I believe Australia's Aboriginals did use the fat and oil
extracted from the goanna as a bush medicine, as the wiki page Friar
Broccoli provided the link for explains.
Whether the modern incarnation of "Goanna Oil", with all it's active
ingredients, actually helps an athlete, is subjective, IMHO, and thus
your conclusion that it is like "Snake Oil" is probably correct.
JS.
James
> jbr...@sonic.net wrote:
>> James Steward wrote:
>>
>>>>> "One inch pitch is still the almost invariable rule, from which
>>>>> the 1 & 1-4 inch pitch used on the Waltham company's special chain
>>>>> and sprocket construction forms the most notable exception."
>>
>>>>> --Cycling Life, 1897
>>
>>>> http://www.archive.org/stream/cyclinglife00test#page/n1307/mode/1up
>>
>>>> Good to see that "snake oil" was popular in bicycling more than 150
>>>> years ago.
>>
>>> People use Goanna oil here.
>>
>> http://www.grabthegoanna.com/goanna-products/goanna-rubs/goanna-oil-liniment
>>
>>
>> I hope you are aware the "Snake Oil" is a mythical substance used by
>> quack doctors in the old west. There is no "snake oil". However, the
>> web site does not hint at what "Goanna" oil is or contains. It sounds
>> like so much "Snake oil" to me.
>
> Yes, well aware that "Snake Oil" is mythical, like rocking horse shit
> and hens teeth.
Oops, I almost forgot about the Nargun and the "Drop Bears"!
JS.
thirty-six
> jbra...@sonic.net wrote:
> > James Steward wrote:
>
> >>>> "One inch pitch is still the almost invariable rule, from which
> >>>> the 1 & 1-4 inch pitch used on the Waltham company's special chain
> >>>> and sprocket construction forms the most notable exception."
>
> >>>> --Cycling Life, 1897
>
> >>> http://www.archive.org/stream/cyclinglife00test#page/n1307/mode/1up
>
> >>> Good to see that "snake oil" was popular in bicycling more than 150
> >>> years ago.
>
> >> People use Goanna oil here.
>
>
> > I hope you are aware the "Snake Oil" is a mythical substance used by
> > quack doctors in the old west. There is no "snake oil". However, the
> > web site does not hint at what "Goanna" oil is or contains. It sounds
> > like so much "Snake oil" to me.
>
> Yes, well aware that "Snake Oil" is mythical, like rocking horse shit
> and hens teeth.
>
> Modern day "Goanna Oil" is a product brand name and has the following
> active ingredients (from the website).
>
> * Methyl Salicylate 4.2% w/w
> * Turpentine Oil 4.2% w/w
> * Eucalyptus Oil 2.5% w/w
> * Camphor 0.83% w/w
> * Peppermint Oil 0.42%
> * Pine Oil Pumilio 2.5% w/w
> * Menthol 0.17% w/w
>
> And behold, no goannas in sight!
>
> However, I believe Australia's Aboriginals did use the fat and oil
> extracted from the goanna as a bush medicine, as the wiki page Friar
> Broccoli provided the link for explains.
>
> Whether the modern incarnation of "Goanna Oil", with all it's active
> ingredients, actually helps an athlete, is subjective, IMHO, and thus
> your conclusion that it is like "Snake Oil" is probably correct.
>
> JS.
Looks like a circulatory stimulant (local) to me, ideal for warm-up.
James
An ideal warm-up for me is riding on rollers for 10-15 minutes,
particularly if the race is a time trial, or handicap where you need to
be able to go from the gun.
Many road scratch races a warm-up might be 10 minutes of easy riding in
a low gear.
Oil doesn't get the blood moving like exercise.
JS.
Jay Beattie
Are you kidding? 150 years ago you could buy real snake oil. Now you
get fake snake oil or snake oil substitute or low cholesterol snake
oil. -- Jay Beattie.
carl...@comcast.net
Dear Jay,
Once you could enjoy my warranted product at a reasonable price:
http://www.csicop.org/sb/show/snake_oil_a_guide_for_connoisseurs/
Lately, cheap (but genuine) foreign snake oil has flooded the market:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snake_oil
Cheers,
Clark Stanley
John Dacey
Bugle oil is another product that was largely regarded in disbelief
(despite frequent mentions of the stuff by former rbt regular "Queasy
Paula..."). As it develops, a significant supply has apparently been
discovered in a North Sea oilfield -
http://www.scandoil.com/moxie-bm2/news/spot_news/oilexco-trumpets-bugle-oil-discovery.shtml
-------------------------------
John Dacey
Business Cycles, Miami, Florida
Since 1983
Extensive catalogue of track equipment: online since 1996
http://businesscycles.com
-------------------------------
jbr...@sonic.net
>>> Are you kidding? 150 years ago you could buy real snake oil. Now
>>> you get fake snake oil or snake oil substitute or low cholesterol
>>> snake oil.
>> Once you could enjoy my warranted product at a reasonable price:
http://www.csicop.org/sb/show/snake_oil_a_guide_for_connoisseurs/
>> Lately, cheap (but genuine) foreign snake oil has flooded the market:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snake_oil
> Bugle oil is another product that was largely regarded in disbelief
> (despite frequent mentions of the stuff by former RBT regular "Queasy
> Paula..."). As it develops, a significant supply has apparently been
> discovered in a North Sea oilfield.
http://www.scandoil.com/moxie-bm2/news/spot_news/oilexco-trumpets-bugle-oil-discovery.shtml
I thought "bugle oil" was mainly for folks who didn't know a (sliding)
trombone from a bugle. A bugle has no moving parts and has no use for
lubrication.
--
Jobst Brandt
Tºm Shermªn™ °_°
> [...]
> I thought "bugle oil" was mainly for folks who didn't know a (sliding)
> trombone from a bugle. A bugle has no moving parts and has no use for
> lubrication.
Trombone, schombone. Real Men™ play the sackbut:
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43Gf-_3hmHs>.
"Never look at the trombones, it only encourages them." - Richard Strauss
AMuzi
> On 1/14/2011 12:54 PM, jbr...@sonic.net aka Jobst Brandt wrote:
> > [...]
>> I thought "bugle oil" was mainly for folks who didn't know a (sliding)
>> trombone from a bugle. A bugle has no moving parts and has no use for
>> lubrication.
>
>
> "Never look at the trombones, it only encourages them." - Richard Strauss
>
Meh.
Muddy Waters invented electricity.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hEYwk0bypY
--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
Peter Cole
> Tºm Shermªn™ °_° > wrote:
>> On 1/14/2011 12:54 PM, jbr...@sonic.net aka Jobst Brandt wrote:
>> > [...]
>>> I thought "bugle oil" was mainly for folks who didn't know a (sliding)
>>> trombone from a bugle. A bugle has no moving parts and has no use for
>>> lubrication.
>>
>> Trombone, schombone. Real Menâ„¢ play the sackbut:
>> <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43Gf-_3hmHs>.
>>
>> "Never look at the trombones, it only encourages them." - Richard Strauss
>>
>
> Meh.
>
> Muddy Waters invented electricity.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hEYwk0bypY
>
Heh. As much as I admire the spirit of your claim, I'd have to say Mud's
big contribution was bringing the amplified blues harmonica to the
front, as demonstrated in the clip you cited. Another one from what
appears to be the same performance, again featuring the great James Cotton:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0K6RMLNXio
This song is actually much more representative of his work, since it
incorporates the call and response style he was so famous for -- plus,
he actually wrote it, unlike Mojo.
Unfortunately, Muddy Waters didn't invent electricity, he did invent
Rock 'n Roll, and he says so:
Chalo
>
> I thought "bugle oil" was mainly for folks who didn't know a (sliding)
> trombone from a bugle. A bugle has no moving parts and has no use for
> lubrication.
A respectable bugle these days, and for the last century or so,
features a tuning slide. That means it needs a little viscous grease,
not oil.
http://www.ehow.com/how_7344376_tune-bugle.html
http://www.wwbw.com/Schilke-Tuning-Slide-Grease-475200-i1437318.wwbw
Drum and bugle corps competition has evolved "bugles" to the point
that they now have valves, like a normal trumpet. Thus they need
valve oil. This category of so-called bugles includes the oddly
aggressive-looking "contrabass bugle", which is a lot more like a
shoulder-fired concert tuba.
http://media.photobucket.com/image/contrabass%20bugle/jakereising/band%20stuff/contra.jpg
http://www.unitedalumni.com/images/2009/Uni...@Oshawa090829-014.JPG
Chalo
thirty-six
It keeps away the cold bite of the early spring races. The rubbing in
of a warming oil is essential to aid its absorbtion. It doesn't warm
up the muscles but prevents nervous stimulation which stiffens the
muscles which would otherwise prevent their efficient warm up.
thirty-six
> Jobst Brandt wrote:
>
> > I thought "bugle oil" was mainly for folks who didn't know a (sliding)
> > trombone from a bugle. A bugle has no moving parts and has no use for
> > lubrication.
>
> A respectable bugle these days, and for the last century or so,
> features a tuning slide. That means it needs a little viscous grease,
> not oil.
It would not need a tuning slide if it was hand made, it would be
tuned in manufacture to a reference pipe. Machine made brass is held
in poor regard.
>
> Drum and bugle corps competition has evolved "bugles" to the point
> that they now have valves, like a normal trumpet. Thus they need
> valve oil. This category of so-called bugles includes the oddly
> aggressive-looking "contrabass bugle", which is a lot more like a
> shoulder-fired concert tuba.
>
> http://media.photobucket.com/image/contrabass%20bugle/jakereising/ban...
> http://www.unitedalumni.com/images/2009/Uni...@Oshawa090829-014.JPG
>
> Chalo
Tºm Shermªn™ °_°
I find the distortion of amplified live music to be fatiguing.
Peter Cole
> On 1/15/2011 11:45 AM, Peter Cole wrote:
>> On 1/15/2011 10:44 AM, AMuzi wrote:
In electric blues, distortion is an integral part of the art form. I
guess it's not for everybody.
Dan O
> On 1/15/2011 3:45 PM, T m Sherm n _ > wrote:
>
>
>
> > On 1/15/2011 11:45 AM, Peter Cole wrote:
> >> On 1/15/2011 10:44 AM, AMuzi wrote:
> >>>> On 1/14/2011 12:54 PM, jbra...@sonic.net aka Jobst Brandt wrote:
> >>>> > [...]
> >>>>> I thought "bugle oil" was mainly for folks who didn't know a (sliding)
> >>>>> trombone from a bugle. A bugle has no moving parts and has no use for
> >>>>> lubrication.
>
> >>>> <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43Gf-_3hmHs>.
>
> >>>> "Never look at the trombones, it only encourages them." - Richard
> >>>> Strauss
>
> >>> Meh.
>
> >>> Muddy Waters invented electricity.
> >>>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hEYwk0bypY
>
> >> Heh. As much as I admire the spirit of your claim, I'd have to say Mud's
> >> big contribution was bringing the amplified blues harmonica to the
> >> front, as demonstrated in the clip you cited. Another one from what
> >> appears to be the same performance, again featuring the great James
> >> Cotton:
>
> >>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0K6RMLNXio
>
> >> This song is actually much more representative of his work, since it
> >> incorporates the call and response style he was so famous for -- plus,
> >> he actually wrote it, unlike Mojo.
>
> >> Unfortunately, Muddy Waters didn't invent electricity, he did invent
> >> Rock 'n Roll, and he says so:
>
> >>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VyMeA8CfnGo
>
> > I find the distortion of amplified live music to be fatiguing.
>
> In electric blues, distortion is an integral part of the art form. I
> guess it's not for everybody.
They messed up the Stones Hot rocks when they remastered and tried to
clean it up.
Dan O
Hey Andre, find a copy of Fastball's "All the Pain Money Can Buy" and
rock the house with those electrostats.
-- Yours truly, Dan O
John Dacey
>John Dacey wrote:
>>> Lately, cheap (but genuine) foreign snake oil has flooded the market:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snake_oil
>
>> Bugle oil is another product that was largely regarded in disbelief
>> (despite frequent mentions of the stuff by former RBT regular "Queasy
>> Paula..."). As it develops, a significant supply has apparently been
>> discovered in a North Sea oilfield.
>
> http://www.scandoil.com/moxie-bm2/news/spot_news/oilexco-trumpets-bugle-oil-discovery.shtml
>
>I thought "bugle oil" was mainly for folks who didn't know a (sliding)
>trombone from a bugle. A bugle has no moving parts and has no use for
>lubrication.
Tootling one's own horn generally wants for lubrication, although spit
will usually suffice if purpose-specific bugle oils aren't available.
I'd think an old hand like you would know this.
Chalo
>
> Chalo wrote:
> >
> > A respectable bugle these days, and for the last century or so,
> > features a tuning slide. That means it needs a little viscous grease,
> > not oil.
>
> It would not need a tuning slide if it was hand made, it would be
> tuned in manufacture to a reference pipe. Machine made brass is held
> in poor regard.
The tuning slide is for accommodating different temperatures,
elevations, and anatomical differences among players. These things
are not addressed by using a reference pitch during manufacturing.
Chalo
thirty-six
They dont need to be. I don't know where you are coming from with
"anatomical differences". The audience dint listen to one bugle at
the top of hill in the sun with one ear while listening to another in
the shade in the valley. They all sound together, in the same place,
at the same temperature, at the same elevation. Each bugle is
affected equally. If there were other unkown differences, they can be
acomodated with the mouthpiece and extension. The complication is
there because machine rolled horns are crap.
>
> Chalo
Bill Sornson
> I thought "bugle oil" was mainly for folks who didn't know a (sliding)
> trombone from a bugle. A bugle has no moving parts and has no use for
> lubrication.
I'm impressed you know that not all trombones are slide. Having excelled at
the euphonium for many years, I started playing /valve/ trombone in rock
bands, jazz ensembles and the like. (I had a gorgeous King Silver-Bell 2B
stolen from the storage room in high school. Plain old brass 3B replacement
was just not the same...)
BS
Chalo
>
> Chalo wrote:
> >
> > The tuning slide is for accommodating different temperatures,
> > elevations, and anatomical differences among players. These things
> > are not addressed by using a reference pitch during manufacturing.
>
> They dont need to be. I don't know where you are coming from with
> "anatomical differences".
People's lips are different. Players can "lip up" or down to one
extent or another, but the original equipment introduces a bias.
> The audience dint listen to one bugle at
> the top of hill in the sun with one ear while listening to another in
> the shade in the valley. They all sound together, in the same place,
> at the same temperature, at the same elevation. Each bugle is
> affected equally.
But the glockenspiel is not affected by the same things, and it isn't
tuneable. Bands tune to absolute pitches, not local variations. If
everybody is playing a G bugle and there are no other instruments,
then it only matters that the horns all have the same relative pitch.
But then one of the horns gets dented...
At least, these are some of the concerns we have when we play Earth
music.
Chalo
thirty-six
> thirty-six wrote:
>
> > Chalo wrote:
>
> > > The tuning slide is for accommodating different temperatures,
> > > elevations, and anatomical differences among players. These things
> > > are not addressed by using a reference pitch during manufacturing.
>
> > They dont need to be. I don't know where you are coming from with
> > "anatomical differences".
>
> People's lips are different. Players can "lip up" or down to one
> extent or another, but the original equipment introduces a bias.
You get different size mouthpieces, in diameter (and occasionally
length).
>
> > The audience dint listen to one bugle at
> > the top of hill in the sun with one ear while listening to another in
> > the shade in the valley. They all sound together, in the same place,
> > at the same temperature, at the same elevation. Each bugle is
> > affected equally.
>
> But the glockenspiel is not affected by the same things, and it isn't
> tuneable. Bands tune to absolute pitches, not local variations. If
> everybody is playing a G bugle and there are no other instruments,
> then it only matters that the horns all have the same relative pitch.
> But then one of the horns gets dented...
and it sounds better. All G's will all be g's without knowing the
frequency of oscillation. It happens when all instruments are the
same. The temperature, barometric pressure blah ,blah, are the same,
the pitch is the same, no tuning slide required (except for crappy
modern machine rolled horns).
Tºm Shermªn™ °_°
Remember that Trevor's bugle is held together with tubular glue and
tying and soldering, has tread for better grip when wet, and swings 10
feet side to side while changing notes 210 times a minute while
traveling 70 mph, and is lubricated with almond oil.
Brian Huntley
> Carl Fogel wrote:
> > "One inch pitch is still the almost invariable rule, from which the
> > 1 & 1-4 inch pitch used on the Waltham company's special chain and
> > sprocket construction forms the most notable exception."
> > --Cycling Life, 1897
>
> http://www.archive.org/stream/cyclinglife00test#page/n1307/mode/1up
>
> Good to see that "snake oil" was popular in bicycling more than 150
> are today, be that about carbon fiber or saddles with holes and slots
> in them as well as riding technique... always spinning at over 100RPM.
There must be an interesting bit of math and mechanics hidden in
there. If the chain's pitch were longer, then there would be fewer
links. So in a given distance ridden, there would be fewer links
bending. Of course, they'd be bending through a larger angle each
time, which is likely to offset that somewhat.
The question is, where would the sweet spot be? Do 8 flexes of 22.5
degrees use less energy than 4 flexes of 45 degrees? Does chain
condition matter? Speed?
Dan O
It's one of the advantages of pushing big gears.
Dan O
Anyway I guess it's got to be about a half-inch. Smaller wouldn't
seem to do that much good, and bigger might be harder to shift.
AMuzi
Note success of Shimano 10mm chain.
thirty-six
The ideal pitch for a chain within the physical constraints of a
bicycle is dependant on the availability of the ideal lubricant and
acceptable wear rate, and ultimately replacement costs. A slightly
shorter pitch may see advantages for the user if it retained the same
pin dimensions. The incompatibility and low production should keep
the price high for those willing to paddle upstream.
carl...@comcast.net
Dear Andrew,
Bah! Roller gear-teeth make it 50% easier to pedal, laugh at mud, and
can be attached to any wheel:
http://i51.tinypic.com/2rmrxoi.jpg
Widely used in the Tour de France by efficiency-obsessed riders, who
conceal their secret weapon by re-branding with flamboyant decals.
Cheers,
Carl Fogel
AMuzi
What, no miniature ceramic cartridge bearings ?
carl...@comcast.net
Dear Brian,
See Spicer for theory (p.4) and measurement (p.6) of chain losses:
http://www.ihpva.org/HParchive/PDF/hp50-2000.pdf
The fewer the teeth, the less efficient the chain.
Spicer's theory may be parallel to chordal action, which increases
wildly as the number of teeth drop below ten:
http://chain-guide.com/basics/2-2-1-chordal-action.html
Note that Spicer measured chain efficiencies of 95.0%, 93.2%, and
91.4% for 21, 15, and 11-tooth rear sprockets.
Our great-grandfathers used such small rear sprockets with inch-pitch
that they were able to measure chain losses well enough to see that
7-tooth rear sprockets were noticeably harder to pedal at the same
speed than 8-tooth sprockets:
http://books.google.com/books?id=w8UaAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA981#v=onepage&q&f=false
Efficiency drops off so much below 10 teeth that 7 teeth was as low as
anyone tried, and they quickly moved back up to 8 teeth.
For a fixie in the 1890s, early gearing of 18x7 (2.571 to 1) changed
to 21x8 or 22x8 (2.625 or 2.750 to 1) as the 8-tooth advantage became
apparent:
http://www.archive.org/stream/cyclinglife00test#page/n1307/mode/1up
From a practical point of view, few Tour de France riders would give
up their half-inch 10-sprocket rear clusters for the much coarser
inch-pitch gearing differences allowed with reasonable front sprocket
sizes.
Consider a 27-tooth inch-pitch front sprocket, just a touch larger
than a modern 53-tooth half-inch-pitch front, using the 7-tooth
minimum:
4.818 = 53 x 11
4.417 = 53 x 12
4.077 = 53 x 13
27 x 7 = 3.857
3.786 = 53 x 14
3.533 = 53 x 15
27 x 8 = 3.375
3.313 = 53 x 16
3.118 = 53 x 17
27 x 9 = 3.000
2.944 = 53 x 18
2.789 = 53 x 19
27 x 10 = 2.700
2.650 = 53 x 20
2.524 = 53 x 21
27 x 11 = 2.455
2.409 = 53 x 22
2.304 = 53 x 23
27 x 12 = 2.250
To match a modern 53x11, inch-pitch chain needs a 34x7 (4.857 to 1), a
sprocket as large as a modern 68-tooth, and it will still have the
inefficiency of a 7-tooth versus an 11-tooth.
Going up to the 8-tooth that even the crude measurements of the 1890s
showed was an improvement would mean a 38-tooth front inch-pitch
sprocket (38x8 = 4.750 to 1). That's as large as a modern 76-tooth,
and it would still be noticeably less efficient than an 11-tooth.
***
An 11-tooth rear inch-pitch using a 53-tooth front might match the
efficiency of a modern 53x11, but it would have a front sprocket about
428 mm in diameter (a pair of 175 mm cranks are only 350 mm) and would
look something like these:
http://www.scienceandsociety.co.uk/results.asp?image=10327510&wwwflag=2&imagepos=6
http://bulgier.net/pics/bike/AntiquePhotos/tall-geared_Russian.jpg
The acme of single sprocket-pair gearing, 130x14:
http://imageevent.com/dernysportuk/stayerpictures?p=1056&n=1&m=-1&c=2&l=0&w=4&s=0&z=2
The use of the 14-tooth is partly to improve effiency and partly to
increase chain engagement--the front sprocket is so huge and so close
that it's hard to get much chain wrap on the rear.
***
Another problem with inch-pitch is the mechanical shifting of
derailleurs. It's much harder to shift coarse inch-pitch chain across
gears of roughly the same diameter. Practically all de-railing schemes
from the 1890s and onward use half-inch pitch.
Cheers,
Carl Fogel
AMuzi
Sure, I could toss my beloved 44x20 (1/2") fixed setup for
an equivalent 'classic' 22x10 (1"). But then I wouldn't be
able to blithely replace my $10 chain once a year.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Chain-Diamond-block-inch-pitch-1-pitch-x-3-16-width-/150389310430?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2303e6c3de
http://preview.tinyurl.com/4dfl2ub
carl...@comcast.net
Dear Andrew,
Bah! A simple bump in between the sprocket teeth and increasing the
chain to 1 & 1/4 inch pitch will beat any ceramics!
http://i52.tinypic.com/2gy0n7n.jpg
***
The bump actually seemed to work, reducing chordal action and chain
speed variation by preventing the chain roller from dropping so far
down between teeth.
Lots of turn-of-the-century inch-pitch hubs adopted the bump:
http://www.nostalgic.net/index.php?s=arc%2Fpre1920%2F1901+Wyoma+hub+2.jpg
http://www.nostalgic.net/index.php?s=arc%2Fpre1920%2F1902+Eadie+hub+1.jpg
http://www.nostalgic.net/index.php?s=arc%2Fpre1920%2F1903+Morrow+hub+1.jpg
http://www.nostalgic.net/index.php?s=arc%2Fpre1920%2F1901+EZ+hub+1.jpg
http://www.nostalgic.net/index.php?s=arc%2Fpre1920%2F1906+Durkop+hub+1.jpg
http://www.nostalgic.net/index.php?s=arc%2Fpre1920%2F1906_Cinch2.jpg
http://www.nostalgic.net/index.php?s=arc%2Fpre1920%2F1909_Eclipse1.jpg
http://www.nostalgic.net/index.php?s=arc%2Fpre1920%2F1914_Eclipse_1.jpg
http://www.nostalgic.net/index.php?s=arc%2Fpre1920%2F1904_Perfection+1.jpg
http://www.nostalgic.net/index.php?s=arc%2Fpre1920%2F1902+Eadie+1.jpg
But not all:
http://www.nostalgic.net/index.php?s=arc%2Fpre1920%2F1904+Eadie+hub+1.jpg
http://www.nostalgic.net/index.php?s=arc%2Fpre1920%2F1908+Corbin+Duplex+1.jpg
http://www.nostalgic.net/index.php?s=arc%2Fpre1920%2F1913+Corbin+Duplex+hub+1.jpg
http://www.nostalgic.net/index.php?s=arc%2Fpre1920%2F1904+New+Departure+Duplex+hub.jpg
Cheers,
Carl Fogel
Michael Press
Tºm Shermªn™ °_° <""twshermanREMOVE\"@THI$southslope.net"> wrote:
> On 1/14/2011 12:54 PM, jbr...@sonic.net aka Jobst Brandt wrote:
> > [...]
> > I thought "bugle oil" was mainly for folks who didn't know a (sliding)
> > trombone from a bugle. A bugle has no moving parts and has no use for
> > lubrication.
>
> Trombone, schombone. Real Men™ play the sackbut:
> <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43Gf-_3hmHs>.
>
> "Never look at the trombones, it only encourages them." - Richard Strauss
Richard Strauss is a boring old fart. Not a trace of
soul in his entire oeuvre. Academic, sterile, and sere.
Richard Strauss makes elevator music shine in contrast.
He obviously never heard a klezmer band.
--
Michael Press
AMuzi
> In article <igrcgv$t9d$1...@news.eternal-september.org>,
> Tºm Shermªn™ °_° <""twshermanREMOVE\"@THI$southslope.net"> wrote:
>
>> On 1/14/2011 12:54 PM, jbr...@sonic.net aka Jobst Brandt wrote:
>> > [...]
>>> I thought "bugle oil" was mainly for folks who didn't know a (sliding)
>>> trombone from a bugle. A bugle has no moving parts and has no use for
>>> lubrication.
>>
>> "Never look at the trombones, it only encourages them." - Richard Strauss
>
> Richard Strauss is a boring old fart. Not a trace of
> soul in his entire oeuvre. Academic, sterile, and sere.
> Richard Strauss makes elevator music shine in contrast.
> He obviously never heard a klezmer band.
>
To quote on of my employees on being subjected to Verdi,
"Nice, but it ain't got a beat".
Dan O
> > Tºm Shermªn™ °_° <""twshermanREMOVE\"@THI$southslope.net"> wrote:
>
> >> On 1/14/2011 12:54 PM, jbra...@sonic.net aka Jobst Brandt wrote:
> >> > [...]
> >>> I thought "bugle oil" was mainly for folks who didn't know a (sliding)
> >>> trombone from a bugle. A bugle has no moving parts and has no use for
> >>> lubrication.
> >> <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43Gf-_3hmHs>.
>
> >> "Never look at the trombones, it only encourages them." - Richard Strauss
>
> > Richard Strauss is a boring old fart. Not a trace of
> > soul in his entire oeuvre. Academic, sterile, and sere.
> > Richard Strauss makes elevator music shine in contrast.
> > He obviously never heard a klezmer band.
>
> To quote on of my employees on being subjected to Verdi,
> "Nice, but it ain't got a beat".
>
Ooh my little pretty one, my pretty one
When you gonna give me some time, Sharona
When you make my motor run, my motor run
Gun it comin' off of the line, Sharona
jay
> James wrote:
> > jbra...@sonic.net wrote:
> >> James Steward wrote:
>
> >>>>> "One inch pitch is still the almost invariable rule, from which
> >>>>> the 1 & 1-4 inch pitch used on the Waltham company's special chain
> >>>>> and sprocket construction forms the most notable exception."
>
> >>>>> --Cycling Life, 1897
>
> >>>> http://www.archive.org/stream/cyclinglife00test#page/n1307/mode/1up
>
> >>>> Good to see that "snake oil" was popular in bicycling more than 150
> >>>> years ago.
>
>
> >> http://www.grabthegoanna.com/goanna-products/goanna-rubs/goanna-oil-l...
>
> >> I hope you are aware the "Snake Oil" is a mythical substance used by
> >> quack doctors in the old west. There is no "snake oil". However, the
> >> web site does not hint at what "Goanna" oil is or contains. It sounds
> >> like so much "Snake oil" to me.
>
> > Yes, well aware that "Snake Oil" is mythical, like rocking horse shit
> > and hens teeth.
>
> Oops, I almost forgot about the Nargun and the "Drop Bears"!
>
> JS.
Is that anything like "The right to arm bears"?
James
Nop. "Drop Bears" are attack koalas. Sometimes touted as being the
size of a billiard table, and with six legs, they drop out of trees on
to unsuspecting passers by.
A bit like the killer rabbit, with a mean streak and huge pointed teeth!!
JS.
Duane Hebert
You must ride carrying the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch.
Friar Broccoli
> jay wrote:
> > On Jan 13, 6:57 pm, James <james.e.stew...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> James wrote:
> >>> jbra...@sonic.net wrote:
> >>>> James Steward wrote:
> >>>>>>> "One inch pitch is still the almost invariable rule, from which
> >>>>>>> the 1 & 1-4 inch pitch used on the Waltham company's special chain
> >>>>>>> and sprocket construction forms the most notable exception."
> >>>>>>> --Cycling Life, 1897
> >>>>>> http://www.archive.org/stream/cyclinglife00test#page/n1307/mode/1up
> >>>>>> Good to see that "snake oil" was popular in bicycling more than 150
> >>>>>> years ago.
> >>>>> People use Goanna oil here.
> >>>> http://www.grabthegoanna.com/goanna-products/goanna-rubs/goanna-oil-l...
> >>>> I hope you are aware the "Snake Oil" is a mythical substance used by
> >>>> quack doctors in the old west. There is no "snake oil". However, the
> >>>> web site does not hint at what "Goanna" oil is or contains. It sounds
> >>>> like so much "Snake oil" to me.
> >>> Yes, well aware that "Snake Oil" is mythical, like rocking horse shit
> >>> and hens teeth.
> >> Oops, I almost forgot about the Nargun and the "Drop Bears"!
>
> >> JS.
>
> > Is that anything like "The right to arm bears"?
.
> Nop. "Drop Bears" are attack koalas. Sometimes touted as being the
> size of a billiard table, and with six legs, they drop out of trees on
> to unsuspecting passers by.
>
> A bit like the killer rabbit, with a mean streak and huge pointed teeth!!
This is obviously wrong. Rabbits are placentals, while koalas are
marsupials, and both are mammals, all of which have four legs/
appendages. There are **NO** six legged mammals!!! Since all the
DNA samples from Drop Bears have been eaten (along with the
researchers who collected them), it is a difficult to be certain, but
the Tree Octopus which is endemic to the American Pacific northwest,
appears to be its closest extant relative.
James
I just can't get the counting correct. "1, 2, 5"??
Duane Hebert
I think that as long as you can say what your favorite color is, you
should be ok.
Michael Press
AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
How would he know it is nice?
No sense of extended melody has Mr. X.
--
Michael Press