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Fork Crown Failure

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karpa...@yahoo.com

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Sep 13, 2000, 3:00:00 AM9/13/00
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I've come across an astonishing failure and want to see if anyone else has
seen anything similar.

Hybrid bike with front suspension fork tubes (1.23 mm wall thickness),
press-fit into a cast aluminum fork crown (2.5 mm wall thickness).

Rider rolled 1 block down fairly steep hill, to about 15-20 mph, hit the
brakes hard, but not a panic stop.

One one side, the back wall of the the fork crown split from the bottom,
about half-way up the height of the crown in two places about 1 cm apart.
The resulting tab of metal (between the two cracks) bent backward at about a
15 degree angle.

The other side of the crown, on the back wall, is split entirely through and
one of the two cracked surfaces is displaced with respect to the other in
the vertical plane. Since there are asphalt marks on the bottom of that side
of the crown, it's likely that the split is the result of shearing forces of
the crown hitting the pavement with the weight of the rider upon it.

Both fork tubes are deformed slightly: bent inward at the very top the
leading wall and dimpled on the trailing wall about 1.7 cm below the top of
the tubes. They are out of round as shown by the following measurements:
2.34 x 2.17 cm and 2.42 x 2.27 cm. (The unbent tube diameter = 2.426 cm)

The forks and wheel separated from the crown, sending the rider into the
pavement headfirst, resulting in an unusually large amount of injuries that
were nearly fatal.

The bike was about a year old. The rider says it was ridden on city streets
mabye 10 miles a week, and never off road. Not modified in any way. Tires in
excellent condition, inflated to 75 psi.

My first thought was the rider hit a solid object like a car. But the front
rim is true and the rider stayed with the bike as evidenced by blood stains
on the handlebars and cables as well as the nature of the injuries (the
trachea was crushed by the handlebars).

Anybody ever heard of anything like this?

Thanks,

karpa...@yahoo.com

"In skating over thin ice, our safety is in our speed." -- Emerson

Tho X. Bui

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Sep 13, 2000, 3:00:00 AM9/13/00
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> karpa...@yahoo.com wrote in message ...

> >I've come across an astonishing failure and want
> to see if anyone else has
> >seen anything similar.
> >
> >Hybrid bike with front suspension fork tubes...

It is very difficult to do failure analysis without looking at the
failed components--I used to do FA for a living, and found that analysis
based on descriptions will almost always lead to the wrong conclusions.
You may wish to set up some pictures in a URL somewhere for the
"experts" in this ng.

Tho

Joshua_Putnam

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Sep 14, 2000, 3:00:00 AM9/14/00
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In article <Cn_v5.158$mk4.1...@news.pacbell.net>,
<karpa...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>My first thought was the rider hit a solid object like a car. But the front
>rim is true

So? I've worked on any number of bikes that have been run into
solid objects and had the frame or fork bent while the wheel
remained true. For example, my best friend rode straight into a
bollard on a trail at ~15mph, bending his frame to the point that
the tire was deformed where it pressed against the downtube, but
the wheel was perfectly true. Wheels are very strong if you run
straight into something, they're only weak from the sides.

I would suggest examining the top tube and down tube of the frame
to see if there's any deformation consistent with running into a
solid object. (Of course, some current frames are so overbuilt,
the fork will fail before the frame bends, but most bikes will
show a front impact via bent top and down tubes.)

>and the rider stayed with the bike as evidenced by blood stains
>on the handlebars and cables as well as the nature of the injuries (the
>trachea was crushed by the handlebars).

I once hit a dog at over 30mph, stayed with the bike as it
went airborne, just barely managed to tuck and roll out
from under it as I landed, but took the handlebars in the
ribs on the way. If I'd held onto the bars all the way
instead, I can see how those injuries could result -- the
bars got me hard enough to break them.

Were there any *low* obstacles around the area of the
accident, something the rider could have hit then stayed
with the bike as it went over the obstacle? Park benches?
Tall curbs? Trash cans? Stray dogs?

--

Jo...@WolfeNet.com is Joshua Putnam / P.O. Box 13220 / Burton, WA 98013
"My other bike is a car."
http://www.wolfenet.com/~josh/

Rivermist

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Sep 14, 2000, 3:00:00 AM9/14/00
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What kind of bike was it?

<karpa...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Cn_v5.158$mk4.1...@news.pacbell.net...


> I've come across an astonishing failure and want to see if anyone else has
> seen anything similar.
>

> My first thought was the rider hit a solid object like a car. But the
front

> rim is true and the rider stayed with the bike as evidenced by blood


stains
> on the handlebars and cables as well as the nature of the injuries (the
> trachea was crushed by the handlebars).
>

A Muzi

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Sep 14, 2000, 3:00:00 AM9/14/00
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What brand of fork is it that I want to avoid in the future?

karpa...@yahoo.com wrote:

--
Yellow Jersey, Ltd
http://www.yellowjersey.org
http://www.execpc.com/yellowje
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Robert D. Halem

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Sep 14, 2000, 3:00:00 AM9/14/00
to
It doesn't even have to be a major obstacle. We had a rider go over the top
after hitting a pine cone. It acted just like a wheel chock and stopped the
front wheel cold. The leverage of the weight of the rider against a stopped
wheel can be large.

And when you went back to look, there wouldn't be anything on the road to see.

Rivermist wrote:

> What kind of bike was it?
>
> <karpa...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:Cn_v5.158$mk4.1...@news.pacbell.net...

--
**************************************************
Bob Halem - San Jose, CA
B...@WESCRAFT.COM
**************************************************

Jay Beattie

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Sep 14, 2000, 3:00:00 AM9/14/00
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IMO, it was a wall impact and not braking forces.
The stanchions would have to be loose in the
crown, or the crown violently split as you
indicated in order for the stanchions to drop out.
Otherwise, they would simply bend. There was
significant damage as the result of whatever
happened, and I doubt that the rider could have
stayed on the bike even if the forks had remained
intact, being that bikes do not have seatbelts. --
Jay Beattie.

karpa...@yahoo.com wrote in message ...

karpa...@yahoo.com

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Sep 14, 2000, 3:00:00 AM9/14/00
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Josh -

Thanks for your thoughts.

The top and down tubes showed no deformation.

As far as the rider staying with the bike: Yes I too once hit a cat and
stayed with the bike and when I was a kid, hit a curb at night and went over
the handlebars. But my understanding from an accident investigator with 30
years of experience is that in any impact over 15 mph with a SOLID IMMOVABLE
object (car, wall, bollard) it's very rare for the body to be able to stay
with the bike, even with cleated pedals.

There were no low obects at the scene of the accident. The rider had gone
around a double-parked car and was headed back toward the right side of the
street when he hit the brakes, seeing a clear path in front of him. That was
the last thing he remembers clearly for the next 48 hours. His body was
found with the bike about 10 feet behind a parked car, about 5 feet away
from the curb. So it's clear he didn't hit the curb or the parked car. The
first responder was there within 10 seconds of hearing "a squishing" sound
(ouch!) and saw no sign of collision with another vehicle.

To me it sounds like the fork crown failed purely from the braking loads,
which is why I'm trying to find out more of others' experience. This is not
an OK thing!

PS: I liked reading about your touring bike on your web page. Several of the
links were inoperable.

Watching out for bollards,
karpaydiem

> In article <Cn_v5.158$mk4.1...@news.pacbell.net>,
> <karpa...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>

> >My first thought was the rider hit a solid object like a car. But the
front
> >rim is true
>

> So? I've worked on any number of bikes that have been run into
> solid objects and had the frame or fork bent while the wheel
> remained true. For example, my best friend rode straight into a
> bollard on a trail at ~15mph, bending his frame to the point that
> the tire was deformed where it pressed against the downtube, but
> the wheel was perfectly true. Wheels are very strong if you run
> straight into something, they're only weak from the sides.
>
> I would suggest examining the top tube and down tube of the frame
> to see if there's any deformation consistent with running into a
> solid object. (Of course, some current frames are so overbuilt,
> the fork will fail before the frame bends, but most bikes will
> show a front impact via bent top and down tubes.)
>

> >and the rider stayed with the bike as evidenced by blood stains
> >on the handlebars and cables as well as the nature of the injuries (the
> >trachea was crushed by the handlebars).
>

karpa...@yahoo.com

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Sep 14, 2000, 3:00:00 AM9/14/00
to
> IMO, it was a wall impact and not braking forces.

That was my first thought too, but the body and the bike were found 5 feet
out from the curb and about 10 feet behind a parked car. The rider said he
had just passed a double-parked car and was heading back to the right side
of the roadway when he hit the brakes for a stop sign. Everything was clear
in front of him. Hittting the brakes was the last thing he remembered for
the next 48 hours.

Evidence that the body stayed with the bike:
1) Blood all over the handlebars and cables.
2) Body seen with the bike by first responder 10 seconds after hearing "a
squishing sound". 3) Both hands were broken by being turned under the grips
wedged on the asphalt as evidenced by the plane of the bone fractures and
the severe abrasions on the backs of the hands.

Given the above, it seems clear that no wall or car was involved.

So it may well be that the stanchions were loose, or the crown simply failed
under the braking loads. That's what I'm trying to find out: has anyone ever
heard of such a failure?

karpaydiem

"Jay Beattie" <jbea...@lindsayhart.com> wrote in message
news:39c0f215$1...@news.nwlink.com...


> IMO, it was a wall impact and not braking forces.
> The stanchions would have to be loose in the
> crown, or the crown violently split as you
> indicated in order for the stanchions to drop out.
> Otherwise, they would simply bend. There was
> significant damage as the result of whatever
> happened, and I doubt that the rider could have
> stayed on the bike even if the forks had remained
> intact, being that bikes do not have seatbelts. --
> Jay Beattie.
>
> karpa...@yahoo.com wrote in message ...
> >I've come across an astonishing failure and want
> to see if anyone else has

> >seen anything similar...


karpa...@yahoo.com

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Sep 14, 2000, 3:00:00 AM9/14/00
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Good idea. I know there were pics taken. I'll see if I can get them to scan
post them online this weekend.

karpaydiem

"Tho X. Bui" <bl...@prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:39BF61E7...@prodigy.net...


>
> > karpa...@yahoo.com wrote in message ...
> > >I've come across an astonishing failure and want
> > to see if anyone else has

> > >seen anything similar.
> > >

Mike Jacoubowsky

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Sep 14, 2000, 3:00:00 AM9/14/00
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#1: What brand of fork is this? It's a lot easier to figure out what's
happened if I can look at an identical fork.

#2: Most hybrids have pretty hefty frames that aren't likely to show signs
of buckling in a typical head-on collision.

#3: Wheels are *incredibly* strong in a straight-on impact. Any side load
and they do all manner of unpleasant things, but hit something head on, very
hard, and the wheel might come out completely undamaged. Happened to me
when I hit a car that backed out of a driveway into me. My fork column
(high quality chrome moly) bent, but the wheel was untouched.

#4: You may be chasing a "Which came first, the chicken or the egg" king of
thing. It's quite possible that the damage to the fork was from an earlier,
unrelated impact.

#5: I assume you've taken it back to the original shop. What did *they*
say? A good shop prides themselves in detective work, and has the
experience of many hundreds, if not thousands, of bikes to go on.

#6: The extent of cross-posting here is probably excessive. You should
limit yourself to the most relevant group (probably this one) and go on from
there. Sure, it's efficient *for you* to utilize as much of the Internet as
possible in your quest, but there are reasons that we don't have one
GIGANTIC group just labeled "rec.bicycles.stuff" (which is where all the
groups would be if everybody posted everywhere).

Good luck running things down!

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
http://www.ChainReactionBicycles.com


<karpa...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Cn_v5.158$mk4.1...@news.pacbell.net...

> I've come across an astonishing failure and want to see if anyone else has
> seen anything similar.
>

> My first thought was the rider hit a solid object like a car. But the
front

> rim is true and the rider stayed with the bike as evidenced by blood


stains
> on the handlebars and cables as well as the nature of the injuries (the
> trachea was crushed by the handlebars).
>

Joshua_Putnam

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Sep 14, 2000, 3:00:00 AM9/14/00
to
In article <f67w5.88$oY4.1...@nnrp5-w.sbc.net>,
<karpa...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>Given the above, it seems clear that no wall or car was involved.

>So it may well be that the stanchions were loose, or the crown simply failed
>under the braking loads. That's what I'm trying to find out: has anyone ever
>heard of such a failure?

You might check the CPSC web page for recall notices -- there
have indeed been some models of suspension forks that were prone
to sudden, catastrophic failures.

Tom Kunich

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Sep 14, 2000, 3:00:00 AM9/14/00
to

Now, perhaps it was a fork crown failure. To tell you the truth I'm sort of
surprised that we haven't seen some pretty obvious failures in suspension
forks considering that they keep lightening them without really know what
the customers are doing with them and what real world loadings to which they
are being subjected.

However, one thing is pretty certain: it is unlikely that the fork failed
JUST from putting on the brakes since you seem to be describing a failure in
which the forks bent FORWARD I can see exactly the same sort of thing from
doing a 'big air' jump.


Jay Beattie

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Sep 14, 2000, 3:00:00 AM9/14/00
to

karpa...@yahoo.com wrote in message ...
>> IMO, it was a wall impact and not braking
forces.
>
>That was my first thought too, but the body and
the bike were found 5 feet
>out from the curb and about 10 feet behind a
parked car. The rider said he
>had just passed a double-parked car and was
heading back to the right side
>of the roadway when he hit the brakes for a stop
sign. Everything was clear
>in front of him. Hittting the brakes was the last
thing he remembered for
>the next 48 hours.
>
>Evidence that the body stayed with the bike:
>1) Blood all over the handlebars and cables.
>2) Body seen with the bike by first responder 10
seconds after hearing "a
>squishing sound". 3) Both hands were broken by
being turned under the grips
>wedged on the asphalt as evidenced by the plane
of the bone fractures and
>the severe abrasions on the backs of the hands.
>
>Given the above, it seems clear that no wall or
car was involved.
>
>So it may well be that the stanchions were loose,
or the crown simply failed
>under the braking loads. That's what I'm trying
to find out: has anyone ever
>heard of such a failure?


If you are contemplating litigation, you should
skip the Usenet speculation and retain an expert.
Anecdotal evidence of other fork failures means
nothing. If you disclose who made the fork and
it's model name, someone might be able to tell you
if it is a make or model prone to failure. A lot
of shock-forks have been recalled over the last 10
years. This might have been one of them, and then
it might not.

I have defended three fork failure cases for two
manufacturers. Physical injury typical in these
cases was face-plantitis and not broken hands.
You case sounds very peculiar. Go get an expert.
Depending on where you live, I can recommend
several. BTW, who are you? -- Jay Beattie.

Eric Salathe

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Sep 14, 2000, 3:00:00 AM9/14/00
to
In rec.bicycles.tech Joshua_Putnam <jo...@wolfenet.com> wrote:
> I would suggest examining the top tube and down tube of the frame
> to see if there's any deformation consistent with running into a
> solid object.

Another example of overstressing a fork happend to me recently, and
there was no obstacle. I was braking hard while descending fast down a
hill. I hit a section of broken pavement and my tires bounced off the
ground. I suspect as a combination of my front wheel locking up while
it was in the air and the bounce of my rear wheel, I ended up in an
incipient pitchover (I was riding a front wheelie). I was able to
bring the bike under control again, but my fork was severly bent,
shortening the bike by an inch or so.

So, I think it would be impossible to be certain from what has been
said that the failure was due to braking. However, even if there were
no impact, then the failure could not have been due to a single brake
application, since presumably the fork handled that stress a few
hundred times already (or was the bike brand new on its first
outing?). There would need to be pre-existing stress fractures or
previous crash damage, which could be seen by a knowlegeable
examination of the fractures (as opposed to usenet conjecture).

Eric Salathe

Frank Miles

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Sep 14, 2000, 3:00:00 AM9/14/00
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In article <Cn_v5.158$mk4.1...@news.pacbell.net>,
<karpa...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>I've come across an astonishing failure and want to see if anyone else has
>seen anything similar.
>
> [snip crown,fork description]

>
>The bike was about a year old. The rider says it was ridden on city streets
>mabye 10 miles a week, and never off road. Not modified in any way. Tires in
>excellent condition, inflated to 75 psi.
>
>My first thought was the rider hit a solid object like a car. But the front
>rim is true and the rider stayed with the bike as evidenced by blood stains
>on the handlebars and cables as well as the nature of the injuries (the
>trachea was crushed by the handlebars).

Partial crush, right? Or the rider would likely not live...

I hit a car straight on once at ~15mph (a long story, not my fault).
Though the bike was totalled, with the forks bent back enough to bend
the down tube considerably, the front wheel was not out-of-true. In fact
after recovery (broken leg), I put the wheel on another bike. Later on
I discovered that the axle had cracked, but it hadn't broken through
in the accident. Of course, in my accident I was thrown over the car.
This was with a 27" wheel (think it was a SuperChamp).

>Anybody ever heard of anything like this?

Are you the rider's lawyer?

-frank
--

karpa...@yahoo.com

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Sep 14, 2000, 3:00:00 AM9/14/00
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Sorry if my post gave the impression the fork stanchions were bent forward.
Actually there is a very small dimple on the back side, indicating they were
defomed to the rear, which is consistent with braking forces.

-- karpaydiem
"Tom Kunich" <tku...@cadence.com> wrote in message
news:8pr2nb$i2r$1...@news.cadence.com...


> <karpa...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:Cn_v5.158$mk4.1...@news.pacbell.net...

.....

karpa...@yahoo.com

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Sep 14, 2000, 3:00:00 AM9/14/00
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"Frank Miles" <f...@u.washington.edu> wrote in message
news:8pr8m6$kjg6$1...@nntp3.u.washington.edu...

> In article <Cn_v5.158$mk4.1...@news.pacbell.net>,
> <karpa...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >I've come across an astonishing failure and want to see if anyone else
has
> >seen anything similar.
> >
> > [snip crown,fork description]
> >
> >The bike was about a year old. The rider says it was ridden on city
streets
> >mabye 10 miles a week, and never off road. Not modified in any way. Tires
in
> >excellent condition, inflated to 75 psi.
> >
> >My first thought was the rider hit a solid object like a car. But the
front
> >rim is true and the rider stayed with the bike as evidenced by blood
stains
> >on the handlebars and cables as well as the nature of the injuries (the
> >trachea was crushed by the handlebars).
>
> Partial crush, right? Or the rider would likely not live...

Crushed larynx and thyroid cartilage: required 4 hours of surgery. The
swelling in the throat cut off the airway in the ER, requiring emergency
tracheotomy.

>
> I hit a car straight on once at ~15mph (a long story, not my fault).
> Though the bike was totalled, with the forks bent back enough to bend
> the down tube considerably, the front wheel was not out-of-true. In fact
> after recovery (broken leg), I put the wheel on another bike. Later on
> I discovered that the axle had cracked, but it hadn't broken through
> in the accident. Of course, in my accident I was thrown over the car.
> This was with a 27" wheel (think it was a SuperChamp).
>
> >Anybody ever heard of anything like this?
>
> Are you the rider's lawyer?

No, just a close friend that wants to a) find out if this kind of failure is
known. b) Stop it.

>
> -frank
> --
>

karpa...@yahoo.com

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Sep 14, 2000, 3:00:00 AM9/14/00
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"Eric Salathe" <esal...@cascade.org> wrote in message
news:8pr3eo$7c0s$1...@nntp3.u.washington.edu...

> In rec.bicycles.tech Joshua_Putnam <jo...@wolfenet.com> wrote:
> > I would suggest examining the top tube and down tube of the frame
> > to see if there's any deformation consistent with running into a
> > solid object.
>
> Another example of overstressing a fork happend to me recently, and
> there was no obstacle. I was braking hard while descending fast down a
> hill. I hit a section of broken pavement and my tires bounced off the
> ground. I suspect as a combination of my front wheel locking up while
> it was in the air and the bounce of my rear wheel, I ended up in an
> incipient pitchover (I was riding a front wheelie). I was able to
> bring the bike under control again, but my fork was severly bent,
> shortening the bike by an inch or so.
>
> So, I think it would be impossible to be certain from what has been
> said that the failure was due to braking. However, even if there were
> no impact, then the failure could not have been due to a single brake
> application, since presumably the fork handled that stress a few
> hundred times already (or was the bike brand new on its first
> outing?).

Bike was about a year old, but my friend said that while he obviously used
the brakes hundreds of times previously, this was probably the quickest stop
from speed. He said the brakes were very powerful and the bikes ability to
stop quickly had always impressed him.


>There would need to be pre-existing stress fractures or
> previous crash damage, which could be seen by a knowlegeable
> examination of the fractures (as opposed to usenet conjecture).

Or the stanchions had loosened in the crown? The bike had NOT been in any
crashes previously.

>
> Eric Salathe
>

Mike Jacoubowsky

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Sep 14, 2000, 3:00:00 AM9/14/00
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For reasons unknown, it appears we'll never learn what type of bike or fork
was involved in this incident. Can't figure out why....

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
http://www.ChainReactionBicycles.com


"Rivermist" <ne...@nomail.com> wrote in message
news:Xz5w5.9632$XS1....@news2.atl...

Tom Kunich

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Sep 14, 2000, 3:00:00 AM9/14/00
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<karpa...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:4Paw5.143$oY4.2...@nnrp5-w.sbc.net...

>
> Bike was about a year old, but my friend said that while he obviously used
> the brakes hundreds of times previously, this was probably the quickest
stop
> from speed. He said the brakes were very powerful and the bikes ability to
> stop quickly had always impressed him.

No bicycle can stop at a rate exceeding 1 gee and in fact the most you can
hope for under ideal conditions is perhaps 80% of that.

If the rider and bike weigh in at 225 lbs and 70% of the weight of the bike
is transferred to the front wheel during braking you see that the actual
braking forces are about 125 lbs. If this is at all correct just bouncing on
the bike would exceed this sort of force.

Therefore it cannot be from braking that the failure occurred. Something was
struck or the failure was caused before this incident.


Pete

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Sep 14, 2000, 10:46:28 PM9/14/00
to

Tom Kunich <atku...@pacbell.net> wrote

>
> Therefore it cannot be from braking that the failure occurred. Something
was
> struck or the failure was caused before this incident.

Or this particular part was bad from the factory. Weak spot in the tube,
maybe. But NOT the whole manufacturing run, or we would have seen this
before.

500 miles easy street miles in a year isn't much. Other examples of this
fork (whatever make it may be..) have undoubtedly been put through much more
abuse.

If fork failure from braking alone were common, the streets would be
littered with broken fork stumps.

Pete
trim this down to one group....


Stephe

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Sep 15, 2000, 2:20:39 AM9/15/00
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<karpa...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:DGaw5.140$oY4.2...@nnrp5-w.sbc.net...

> Sorry if my post gave the impression the fork stanchions were bent
forward.
> Actually there is a very small dimple on the back side, indicating they
were
> defomed to the rear, which is consistent with braking forces.
>


I can't imagine the front brake being applied hard enough to bend/break ANY
fork and the rider NOT going over the bars or simply the tire locking up and
spitting the rider onto the road first. Something else happened like they
got doored and the driver drove off?

--


Stephe


Jay Beattie

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Sep 15, 2000, 3:00:00 AM9/15/00
to

Pete wrote in message
<84gw5.12840$j6.29...@news1.rdc1.va.home.com>...


If Karpaydiem (whoever he/she may be) would be so
kind as to tell us who made the fork, we could go
to the CPSC and see if it has been recalled.
There have been a number of forks recalled over
the years, some for slipping stanchions. -- Jay
Beattie.

Joshua_Putnam

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Sep 15, 2000, 3:00:00 AM9/15/00
to
In article <8psekn$g6f$1...@slb3.atl.mindspring.net>,
Stephe <ste...@pipeline.com> wrote:

>I can't imagine the front brake being applied hard enough to bend/break ANY
>fork and the rider NOT going over the bars or simply the tire locking up and
>spitting the rider onto the road first. Something else happened like they
>got doored and the driver drove off?

Hitting something that wasn't there when the medics arrived still
sounds like the most likely explanation to me.

One other thought on going over the bars hard enough to break the
rider's hands: Does the bike have cantilever brakes? Did the
front brake cable break, dropping the straddle cable onto the
tire tread and locking the brakes? I've seen that happen on a
friend's bike -- poor maintenance habits, so the badly-frayed
cable let go during a hard stop. It still shouldn't be enough to
damage, let along break, a fork crown by itself, but it does turn
a panic stop into an accident instantly.

Ground Zero

unread,
Sep 21, 2000, 3:00:00 AM9/21/00
to
"Mike Jacoubowsky" <Mik...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:OI7w5.6873$oc3.4...@news.flash.net...
<snip>

> #5: I assume you've taken it back to the original shop. What did *they*
> say? A good shop prides themselves in detective work, and has the
> experience of many hundreds, if not thousands, of bikes to go on.

It's absolutely mandatory that a bike involved in a collision and evidence
in a lawsuit be inspected by a bicycle technician or forensic engineer
experienced (and licensed!) in conducting forensic investigations for legal
purposes. Such a professional will know how to conduct the investigation
while preserving evidence necessary for admittance in the hearing.

Taking a bike in this circumstance to a regular bike shop with employees not
experienced in the legal aspects of such investigations can result in
evidence being destroyed or changed in such a manner that it is not
admissible in court. This could have devastating effects for the plaintiff's
argument.

I have conducted many such investigations for attorneys - both plaintiff and
defense. In testifying, a forensic engineer or licensed technician will
destroy the testimony of the LBD bicycle mechanic.

The fact that this individual cross-posted to so many newsgroups suggests
that he/she is on a fishing expedition and not experienced in this type of
legal investigation.

Stuart Winsor
Ground Zero Cycles
gdz...@earthlink.net

Tom Kunich

unread,
Sep 22, 2000, 3:00:00 AM9/22/00
to
"Ground Zero" <gdz...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:hsty5.11667$nk3.5...@newsread03.prod.itd.earthlink.net...

> "Mike Jacoubowsky" <Mik...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
> news:OI7w5.6873$oc3.4...@news.flash.net...
> <snip>
> > #5: I assume you've taken it back to the original shop. What did
*they*
> > say? A good shop prides themselves in detective work, and has the
> > experience of many hundreds, if not thousands, of bikes to go on.
>
> It's absolutely mandatory that a bike involved in a collision and evidence
> in a lawsuit be inspected by a bicycle technician or forensic engineer
> experienced (and licensed!) in conducting forensic investigations for
legal
> purposes. Such a professional will know how to conduct the investigation
> while preserving evidence necessary for admittance in the hearing.
>
> The fact that this individual cross-posted to so many newsgroups suggests
> that he/she is on a fishing expedition and not experienced in this type of
> legal investigation.

It suggested to me that he was trying to find out what might have happened.


Joshua_Putnam

unread,
Sep 27, 2000, 3:00:00 AM9/27/00
to
In article <TX7w5.578$iF.1...@den-news1.rmi.net>,

Joshua_Putnam <jo...@WOLFENET.COM> wrote:
>In article <f67w5.88$oY4.1...@nnrp5-w.sbc.net>,
> <karpa...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>>That's what I'm trying to find out: has anyone ever
>>heard of such a failure?

>You might check the CPSC web page for recall notices -- there


>have indeed been some models of suspension forks that were prone
>to sudden, catastrophic failures.

By United Press International

SAN RAFAEL, Calif. -- Dynacraft Industries Inc. is
recalling 24,800 mountain bikes because the front
suspension forks were improperly welded. The company has
gotten 23 reports of injuries -- including concussion,
fractures, cuts, bruises, back strain and chipped or lost
teeth -- suffered by riders when the forks broke apart.

The recall involves 26-inch Vertical XL2 and 24-inch and
26-inch Magna Electroshock bikes. The Vertical XL2s are
model No. 8526-26 and were manufactured in July 1999. The
Magna Electroshocks bear model Nos. 8504-90, 8504-96,
8548-78 or 8548-94 and were manufactured between July 1999
and October 1999.

Earlier this year, Dynacraft recalled 19,200 26-inch
Vertical XLSs manufactured the week of Oct. 11, 1999.

Target Stores sold the Vertical XL2s between August 1999
and last February, and the Magna Electroshocks from August
1999 to August 2000. Both model bikes sold for between
$100 and $140. Consumers should stop riding these bikes
immediately and bring them back to Target for a free
replacement fork or free replacement bicycle of equal
value. For more information, they can call Dynacraft at
800-551-0032 during normal business hours.

_______________________________________________
Subscribe/unsubscribe on the web at:
http://www.phred.org/mailman/listinfo/framebuilders

Tho X. Bui

unread,
Sep 27, 2000, 8:18:08 PM9/27/00
to

Any idea on mode of failure for these forks? Crown? Drop-outs?

Tho

Joshua_Putnam

unread,
Sep 28, 2000, 3:00:00 AM9/28/00
to
In article <NunA5.1882$hV.7...@den-news1.rmi.net>,
Joshua_Putnam <jo...@WOLFENET.COM> wrote:

>SAN RAFAEL, Calif. -- Dynacraft Industries Inc. is
>recalling 24,800 mountain bikes because the front
>suspension forks were improperly welded. The company has
>gotten 23 reports of injuries -- including concussion,
>fractures, cuts, bruises, back strain and chipped or lost
>teeth -- suffered by riders when the forks broke apart.

I got enough email off of this one that I figured I should follow
up with more info.

CPSC recall notices for sporting goods are available on line at
http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/category/sports.html

Other, similar, notices in the last several months include:

====

In cooperation with the U.S. Consumer Product Safety
Commission (CPSC), By Us International Co. Ltd., of Taiwan,
is recalling about 13,500 Ballistic front suspension forks
installed on certain Brunswick mountain bicycles. The forks
on these bicycles can break apart, causing riders to lose
control and fall.

By Us and Brunswick have received 18 reports of forks on
these bicycles breaking resulting in nine riders, including
teenagers, suffering serious head and bodily injuries,
abrasions, bruises and chipped teeth.

The recalled forks were installed on Mongoose S-20 and MGX
S-20 bicycles, which are orange, and the Roadmaster Ridge
Rider bicycles, which is red. The forks on these bikes are
black with decals that read "BALLISTIC" and "105" on the
sides of the suspension fork legs. A serial number is
located on the inside of the suspension fork legs.

====

WASHINGTON, D.C. - In cooperation with the U.S. Consumer
Product Safety Commission (CPSC), Answer Products Inc., of
Valencia, Calif., is voluntarily recalling about 17,500 BMX
and mountain bicycle forks, which were sold separately and
installed on bicycles. The tube that attaches the fork to
the bicycle can fail, causing riders to lose control and
fall.

Answer Products has received six reports of these forks
failing resulting in two consumers suffering minor
injuries, including cuts, bruises and chipped teeth.

These 2000 model bicycle forks have been installed on more
than 30 models of bicycles and sold under Answer and
Manitou brand names. Either "ANSWER" or "MANITOU" is
written on the side of the fork and the model name is
written on the front of the fork. The Answer BMX forks are
the Carbo Pro and Mag Pro models. The Manitou mountain bike
forks are Mars and X-Vert Super models. Bicycle brands that
were made with these forks include Specialized, Klein,
Jamis and Marin.

====

Dynacraft Industries Inc., of San Rafael, Calif., is
voluntarily recalling about 19,000 mountain bikes. These
are "Vertical XL2" mountain bikes with chrome-colored
frames. The model name is written on the bike frame in
yellow and black lettering. A label affixed to the frame
near the crank reads "Model No. 8526-26" and "99.10.11,"
which shows they were manufactured the week of October 11,
1999. Only bikes with this date code are part of this
recall. Another nearby label reads "Dynacraft Industries,"
and "Made in China." Target stores nationwide sold these
mountain bikes from November 1999 through February 2000 for
about $140.

PROBLEM: The front suspension forks on these bikes might
not have been welded properly, and can break apart during
use, resulting in serious injury to the rider.

INCIDENTS: Dynacraft has received eight reports of injury
to riders when the front forks on these bikes broke apart.
Injuries included cuts, bruises, back strain and chipped
and lost teeth.

====

In cooperation with the U.S. Consumer Product Safety
Commission (CPSC), Royce Union Bicycles Co. Inc., of
Hauppauge, N.Y., is recalling about 3,700 men's mountain
bicycles. The frames of these bikes can break apart,
causing falls and serious injuries to riders.

Royce Union has received four reports of the bicycle frames
breaking resulting in serious head and back injuries, as
well as abrasions and contusions to riders.

The recall involves ABT 2000 bikes with model number 16368.
The model number is located on the bottom of the frame near
the crank and pedals. The 26- inch bicycles are silver and
red and have "Aluminum 2000" written on the top tube.

Sears stores sold these bikes nationwide from April 1998
through September 1999 for about $300.

====

In cooperation with the U.S. Consumer Product Safety
Commission (CPSC), Huffy Bicycle Co., of Miamisburg, Ohio,
is recalling about 18,600 men's mountain bicycles. The
frames of these bicycles can break apart, causing falls and
serious injuries to riders.

Huffy has received two reports of the bicycle frames
breaking resulting in serious head and back injuries, as
well as abrasions and contusions to riders.

The recall involves ALX 1000 bicycles with model number
26809, which are silver and blue; ALX 1500 bicycles with
model number 26849, which are silver and green; and
Aluminum 300 bicycles with model number K6809, which are
silver and black. The model number is located on the bottom
of the frame near the crank and pedals. The bicycles have
"HUFFY" written on the down tube.

Discount department stores and sporting good stores,
including Kmart, Ames, The Sports Authority, Service
Merchandise and TRU*SERV, sold these bicycles nationwide
from June 1998 through September 1999 for about $160.

====

Huffy "Verdict" Bicycles Suspension Forks - Hsin Lung
Accessory, of Taiwan, is recalling about 1,400 bicycle
suspension forks with model number HSF-350. The fork's
model number is on the right tube of the fork. The forks
are black, and have "Zoom" written on them. These forks
were installed exclusively on Huffy Bicycle Company
"Verdict" full-suspension mountain bikes with serial
numbers B98J, B98K, B98L and B99A. The bicycle serial
number is on the area where the crank is attached to the
frame. Mass merchandise stores, such as Shopko, Service
Merchandise, Pamida and TRU*SERV, sold these bicycles
nationwide from January 1999 to June 1999 for about $200.

PROBLEM: These suspension forks can break apart during use
when the upper crown weld fails, causing serious injuries
to the bicycle rider.

INCIDENTS/INJURIES: Hsin Lung Accessory has received three
reports of serious injuries to riders, including
contusions, bruises and lacerations to the mouth, caused by
the front suspension forks breaking.

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