More Chicom Virus Vax Craziness

[rec.bicycles.tech]

Pfizer's new vax not tested on humans at all, only on ten mice. Moderna's new tax tested on only 50 humans, one of which suffered a crisis requiring medical intervention, which Moderna won't specify...
https://townhall.com/tipsheet/guybenson/2023/09/18/insane-johns-hopkins-professor-reveals-stunning-truth-about-new-covid-vaccines-n2628550
>
My life matters more than the greed of Big Pharma, or the stupidity of the current administration in the White House.
>
Andre Jute
This is getting creepier and creepier.
>

[Tom Kunich]

The FDA was formed SPECIFICALLY to protect the American public from foods and drugs that could harm the public. Exactly WHY are they doing the exact opposite? Those of us capable of thought (this specifically excludes the Stupid 4) know that there is a revolving door where people leave the FDA and are immediately hired to high pay positions in pharmaceutical companies, but the very fact that anyone in government should make policies directly to benefit these same companies should be so outrageous that they should be immediately prosecuted. I'm sure that prison inmates would like to know who it was that OK'd a vaccine that killed their children and which cell he was in.

[AMuzi]

Typical of the Administrative State.

FDA knew phenylephrine was not effective in 1937 with
another half dozen failed test reports over the years:
https://www.bmj.com/content/382/bmj.p2124

So what else is new?

See also the Epic Systems racket and the current rush by AI
developers for 'sensible regulation = 'kill our future
competitors'.
--
Andrew Muzi
a...@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[Tom Kunich]

Since the FDA and the CDC have been such epic failures why are we paying for them to exist? Close them down if they cannot do their business correctly.

[AMuzi]

On 9/19/2023 10:15 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Tuesday, September 19, 2023 at 8:05:22 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 9/19/2023 9:11 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, September 19, 2023 at 4:16:02 AM UTC-7, rec.bicycles.tech wrote:
>>>> Pfizer's new vax not tested on humans at all, only on ten mice. Moderna's new tax tested on only 50 humans, one of which suffered a crisis requiring medical intervention, which Moderna won't specify...
>>>> https://townhall.com/tipsheet/guybenson/2023/09/18/insane-johns-hopkins-professor-reveals-stunning-truth-about-new-covid-vaccines-n2628550
>>>>>
>>>> My life matters more than the greed of Big Pharma, or the stupidity of the current administration in the White House.
>>>>>
>>>> Andre Jute
>>>> This is getting creepier and creepier.
>>>>>
>>> The FDA was formed SPECIFICALLY to protect the American public from foods and drugs that could harm the public. Exactly WHY are they doing the exact opposite? Those of us capable of thought (this specifically excludes the Stupid 4) know that there is a revolving door where people leave the FDA and are immediately hired to high pay positions in pharmaceutical companies, but the very fact that anyone in government should make policies directly to benefit these same companies should be so outrageous that they should be immediately prosecuted. I'm sure that prison inmates would like to know who it was that OK'd a vaccine that killed their children and which cell he was in.
>> Typical of the Administrative State.
>>
>> FDA knew phenylephrine was not effective in 1937 with
>> another half dozen failed test reports over the years:
>> https://www.bmj.com/content/382/bmj.p2124
>>
>> So what else is new?
>>
>> See also the Epic Systems racket and the current rush by AI
>> developers for 'sensible regulation = 'kill our future
>> competitors'.

> Since the FDA and the CDC have been such epic failures why are we paying for them to exist? Close them down if they cannot do their business correctly.

Because their performance actually looks good when compared
to the Education or Energy Departments.

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Tue, 19 Sep 2023 04:15:59 -0700 (PDT), "rec.bicycles.tech"
<fiul...@yahoo.com> wrote:

You might want to check the configuration of your newsreader software.
It seems to be misconfigured. It's showing the "Author" as the
newsgroup name:

From: "rec.bicycles.tech" <fiul...@yahoo.com>

--
Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

[Catrike Rider]

On Tue, 19 Sep 2023 10:37:59 -0500, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 9/19/2023 10:15 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:

>> On Tuesday, September 19, 2023 at 8:05:22?AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
>>> On 9/19/2023 9:11 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:

>>>> On Tuesday, September 19, 2023 at 4:16:02?AM UTC-7, rec.bicycles.tech wrote:
>>>>> Pfizer's new vax not tested on humans at all, only on ten mice. Moderna's new tax tested on only 50 humans, one of which suffered a crisis requiring medical intervention, which Moderna won't specify...
>>>>> https://townhall.com/tipsheet/guybenson/2023/09/18/insane-johns-hopkins-professor-reveals-stunning-truth-about-new-covid-vaccines-n2628550
>>>>>>
>>>>> My life matters more than the greed of Big Pharma, or the stupidity of the current administration in the White House.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Andre Jute
>>>>> This is getting creepier and creepier.
>>>>>>
>>>> The FDA was formed SPECIFICALLY to protect the American public from foods and drugs that could harm the public. Exactly WHY are they doing the exact opposite? Those of us capable of thought (this specifically excludes the Stupid 4) know that there is a revolving door where people leave the FDA and are immediately hired to high pay positions in pharmaceutical companies, but the very fact that anyone in government should make policies directly to benefit these same companies should be so outrageous that they should be immediately prosecuted. I'm sure that prison inmates would like to know who it was that OK'd a vaccine that killed their children and which cell he was in.
>>> Typical of the Administrative State.
>>>
>>> FDA knew phenylephrine was not effective in 1937 with
>>> another half dozen failed test reports over the years:
>>> https://www.bmj.com/content/382/bmj.p2124
>>>
>>> So what else is new?
>>>
>>> See also the Epic Systems racket and the current rush by AI
>>> developers for 'sensible regulation = 'kill our future
>>> competitors'.
>
>> Since the FDA and the CDC have been such epic failures why are we paying for them to exist? Close them down if they cannot do their business correctly.
>
>Because their performance actually looks good when compared
>to the Education or Energy Departments.

The Dept of Education has no contitutional right to exist.

[Tom Kunich]

I think that you're much more familiar with energy and education than with the FDA and the CDC the two of which I had a closer observational view of in my work. At this point the FDA is nothing more than a stepping stone to upper management in the pharmaceutical industry. Consequently FDA officials seek to satisfy the pharmaceutical companies and not the actual purpose of the FDA which is keeping people safe. This recent pandemic is proof of that. The CDC and FDA MAY NOT give emergency vaccine approval if there is a proven off-label drug that can be used in the treatment of the illness. In fact there were two of three EFFECTIVE drugs that would treat everything but the worse cases. The vaccines have no real scientific "proof" that they gave any protection at all. Instead they rely of some statistical evidence that cannot show that those considered "protected" were EVER exposed to the virus. And people that were considered "protected" DID get the virus AFTER the statistical protection time. While all of this is SUGGESTIVE of vaccine protection it is by no means proof of any sort. And which all of these fun and games it is likely that the vaccines themselves were responsible for the majority of "covid-19" deaths to those between 4 and 40 (actually 4 to 50 for anyone without prior serious respiratory and/or circulatory illnesses). There has also been a substantial increase in the various dementia's and particularly Alzheimer's. Every single death of children between 12 and 20 due to Myo or Pericarditis was 100% due to the mRNA vaccines. While this number isn't really large tell that to their parents.

Does any of this give you faith that the CDC were working for the good of the American people or that these people were giving our money to the Pharmaceutical business for something like $30 per vaccination?

[AMuzi]

Stepping stone? To what?
Where does one possibly go from there?

https://nypost.com/2023/09/19/dr-anthony-fauci-and-his-wife-reported-11m-net-worth-in-2022-report/

'giving our money to the pharmaceutical business' is a very
lucrative policy for a regulator; Kicks back almost as much
cash as public utility rate schemes!

[Tom Kunich]

All it was SUPPOSED to do was to set national standards and it has failed even this task entirely. In one more month I will be 79. When I was in Jr. High, I was building vacuum tube devices in my back yard shed. I don't believe that there was a SINGLE vacuum tube use anywhere in the B52D's I worked on and most of them were manufactured in 1955. And yet we had a Department of Education that allowed Liebermann to get a so-called degree in electronics engineering knowing nothing more than vacuum tubes. That ANY bureau of standards would allow such a thing is preposterous. I can't even begin to express what a farce that is. And even worse - EVEN though Liebermann could not get and hold employment as an engineer in the hottest electronics market in the world, he claims that he is an engineer. That is even worse than his total lack of education in electronics! It took me FIVE minutes to completely understand transistors and hardly more than that to understand digital logic which led to mass integration such as in microprocessors. By the time that Liebermann was getting his college education the ENTIRE WORLD was already 20 years ahead of his education! Do you suppose that Liebermann believes that the Russians put the first satellite in orbit or the first Dog in space using vacuum tubes?

[John B.]

On Tue, 19 Sep 2023 08:15:06 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Tuesday, September 19, 2023 at 8:05:22?AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 9/19/2023 9:11 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:

But Tommy, your statement "FDA knew phenylephrine was not effective in
1937 with another half dozen failed test reports over the years " is
either a lie or evidence that you don't know what you are talking
about.

Phenylephrine is effective when used as a nasal spray.

Your reference refers only to phenylephrine used as a oral medication.
--
Cheers,

John B.

[AMuzi]

On 9/19/2023 5:11 PM, John B. wrote:
> On Tue, 19 Sep 2023 08:15:06 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Tuesday, September 19, 2023 at 8:05:22?AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
>>> On 9/19/2023 9:11 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>> On Tuesday, September 19, 2023 at 4:16:02?AM UTC-7, rec.bicycles.tech wrote:
>>>>> Pfizer's new vax not tested on humans at all, only on ten mice. Moderna's new tax tested on only 50 humans, one of which suffered a crisis requiring medical intervention, which Moderna won't specify...
>>>>> https://townhall.com/tipsheet/guybenson/2023/09/18/insane-johns-hopkins-professor-reveals-stunning-truth-about-new-covid-vaccines-n2628550
>>>>>>
>>>>> My life matters more than the greed of Big Pharma, or the stupidity of the current administration in the White House.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Andre Jute
>>>>> This is getting creepier and creepier.
>>>>>>
>>>> The FDA was formed SPECIFICALLY to protect the American public from foods and drugs that could harm the public. Exactly WHY are they doing the exact opposite? Those of us capable of thought (this specifically excludes the Stupid 4) know that there is a revolving door where people leave the FDA and are immediately hired to high pay positions in pharmaceutical companies, but the very fact that anyone in government should make policies directly to benefit these same companies should be so outrageous that they should be immediately prosecuted. I'm sure that prison inmates would like to know who it was that OK'd a vaccine that killed their children and which cell he was in.
>>> Typical of the Administrative State.
>>>
>>> FDA knew phenylephrine was not effective in 1937 with
>>> another half dozen failed test reports over the years:
>>> https://www.bmj.com/content/382/bmj.p2124
>>>
>>> So what else is new?
>>>
>>> See also the Epic Systems racket and the current rush by AI
>>> developers for 'sensible regulation = 'kill our future
>>> competitors'.

>> Since the FDA and the CDC have been such epic failures why are we paying for them to exist? Close them down if they cannot do their business correctly.
>
> But Tommy, your statement "FDA knew phenylephrine was not effective in
> 1937 with another half dozen failed test reports over the years " is
> either a lie or evidence that you don't know what you are talking
> about.
>
> Phenylephrine is effective when used as a nasal spray.
>
> Your reference refers only to phenylephrine used as a oral medication.

That was not Mr Kunich. It was I, from the lead story in
Saturday's paper. More:

https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/996369

[John B.]

On Tue, 19 Sep 2023 10:37:59 -0500, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 9/19/2023 10:15 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:

>> On Tuesday, September 19, 2023 at 8:05:22?AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
>>> On 9/19/2023 9:11 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:

>>>> On Tuesday, September 19, 2023 at 4:16:02?AM UTC-7, rec.bicycles.tech wrote:
>>>>> Pfizer's new vax not tested on humans at all, only on ten mice. Moderna's new tax tested on only 50 humans, one of which suffered a crisis requiring medical intervention, which Moderna won't specify...
>>>>> https://townhall.com/tipsheet/guybenson/2023/09/18/insane-johns-hopkins-professor-reveals-stunning-truth-about-new-covid-vaccines-n2628550
>>>>>>
>>>>> My life matters more than the greed of Big Pharma, or the stupidity of the current administration in the White House.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Andre Jute
>>>>> This is getting creepier and creepier.
>>>>>>
>>>> The FDA was formed SPECIFICALLY to protect the American public from foods and drugs that could harm the public. Exactly WHY are they doing the exact opposite? Those of us capable of thought (this specifically excludes the Stupid 4) know that there is a revolving door where people leave the FDA and are immediately hired to high pay positions in pharmaceutical companies, but the very fact that anyone in government should make policies directly to benefit these same companies should be so outrageous that they should be immediately prosecuted. I'm sure that prison inmates would like to know who it was that OK'd a vaccine that killed their children and which cell he was in.
>>> Typical of the Administrative State.
>>>
>>> FDA knew phenylephrine was not effective in 1937 with
>>> another half dozen failed test reports over the years:
>>> https://www.bmj.com/content/382/bmj.p2124
>>>
>>> So what else is new?
>>>
>>> See also the Epic Systems racket and the current rush by AI
>>> developers for 'sensible regulation = 'kill our future
>>> competitors'.
>
>> Since the FDA and the CDC have been such epic failures why are we paying for them to exist? Close them down if they cannot do their business correctly.
>
>Because their performance actually looks good when compared
>to the Education or Energy Departments.

To be honest I know nothing about the Education Department so Googled
it and it appears to be largely associated with Student Loans and
Grants.

--
Cheers,

John B.

[Tom Kunich]

Very Slow-com can't even read. So it's no surprise that he can't even get posters properly.

[John B.]

Well, I should apologize to Tom then.

I can't read the whole article as you have to be a member, or some
such, but the facts still remain that the reference is only to oral
use, not the headlined "FDA Panel Deems Phenylephrine Ineffective"
which infers that the medication is of no uses at all.
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Catrike Rider]

On Wed, 20 Sep 2023 05:47:04 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>
wrote:

The Dept of Education "gives" money to state run schools as long as
the state follows the DoE rules.

[John B.]

Way back when, "schools", grade schools at least, were managed and
financed by the town or city, and seemed to work well.

I wonder whether at least part of the reason for the current high cost
of schools in the U.S. is not partly due to the Government making
loans and grants available to students.
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Catrike Rider]

On Wed, 20 Sep 2023 06:12:32 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>

School loans have increased college costs.

[AMuzi]

Peruse some of the many news stories (or even just headlines
and sources) in the past week or so:

https://duckduckgo.com/?t=h_&q=FDA+phenylephrine+ineffective&iar=news&ia=news

[AMuzi]

More Department programs and 'guidelines' with greater
funding correlate to dropping achievement. This is not
proved to be a causal relationship but they are not helping
anything at least.

[AMuzi]

It's a predictable effect of centralization. Hayek wrote
well on that effect in the 1930s through 1970s.

[AMuzi]

To the same extent as no-money-down government mortgages to
people with bad credit inflated housing. And as government
bank bailouts funded excessive leveraged speculation. And as
government subsidized battery cars have disrupted auto
makers' production labor and capital. And as the 'Energy'
Department has crippled stymied and bankrupted energy
production.


Some might say the programs work exactly as expected if they
were designed by a Gramschi disciple bent on breaking the
nation. That would perhaps be cynical but one never knows...

[John B.]

My theory is that it is a direct result of the democratic system as
practiced in modern times.

The original Greek, i.e, Athens, system had the "Gentry", the
responsible folks who owned property, paid taxes, had completed their
military training and were prepared to defend the nation, qualified to
vote... just as the original plan was in the new United States.

But modern times has it that everyone should be allowed to vote. Those
who don't work, those getting the socialistic government payoffs, and
so on, and as someone, perhaps Winston Churchill, said, if people on
the dole are allowed to vote then they will vote for more dole.

The result is a system where the best method of getting elected is to
campaign on the promise that, "If elected I will give you ....."

--
Cheers,

John B.

[John B.]

They all say the same thing, "The efficacy of phenylephrine
administered orally to relieve nasal discomfort has been called into
question multiple times in the past". The key word is "orally".

"Phenylephrine is effective via non-tablet routes
These include topically as a nasal spray"
https://www.foxnews.com/health/stuffy-nose-common-otc-nasal-decongestants-with-phenylephrine-dont-work-in-tablet-form-experts-say

--
Cheers,

John B.

[John B.]

Y'all need to change the name. It used to be a union of individual
states who managed their own affairs. Now it is rapidly becoming
effectively a single nation administered largely from Washington.

--
Cheers,

John B.

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Tue, 19 Sep 2023 16:33:08 -0400, Catrike Rider
<sol...@drafting.not> wrote:

>The Dept of Education has no contitutional right to exist.

That's true. Also, none of the other federal regulatory agencies are
mentioned in the constitution. I presume that means you also believe
that all these other agencies don't have a right to exist?
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independent_agencies_of_the_United_States_government>

<https://www2.ed.gov/about/landing.jhtml>
"ED was created in 1980 by combining offices from several federal
agencies."

If you're wondering how the Dept of Ed got here, see the history
section on this page:
<https://www2.ed.gov/about/overview/focus/what.html>

[John B.]

On Tue, 19 Sep 2023 19:03:12 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>
wrote:

>On Tue, 19 Sep 2023 16:33:08 -0400, Catrike Rider
><sol...@drafting.not> wrote:
>
>>The Dept of Education has no contitutional right to exist.
>
>That's true. Also, none of the other federal regulatory agencies are
>mentioned in the constitution. I presume that means you also believe
>that all these other agencies don't have a right to exist?
><https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independent_agencies_of_the_United_States_government>

The Constitution is quite specific in the powers assigned to the
Congress. Article 1 Section 8.

And then the Courts began to "interpret" what was written :-)


--
Cheers,

John B.

[Catrike Rider]

On Tue, 19 Sep 2023 19:03:12 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>
wrote:

>On Tue, 19 Sep 2023 16:33:08 -0400, Catrike Rider
><sol...@drafting.not> wrote:
>
>>The Dept of Education has no contitutional right to exist.
>
>That's true. Also, none of the other federal regulatory agencies are
>mentioned in the constitution. I presume that means you also believe
>that all these other agencies don't have a right to exist?
><https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independent_agencies_of_the_United_States_government>

The Constitution specifies or, at least hints at functions that some
agencies supply, but public education is not one of them.

[Andre Jute]

Let's translate this piece of malicious crap from Slow Johnny into English. Slow Johnny says, in effect, "This morning when my nurse woke me I didn't know what phenylephrine is. But to my glee, there was a statement from someone who does know. So I googled phenylephrine and discovered he didn't cross all the tees and dot all the eyes for the morons on the group. So I called him a liar. Calling him a liar is also my admission that I am the Number One Moron on RBT."
>
Tell us then, Slow Johnny Slocomb, Number One Moron on RBT, in which year phenylephrine became available as a spray, and how many years that was after the failure of the FDA in 1937 to protect the public from taking it orally?
>
Andre Jute
Slow Johnny is truly the dumbest fuck I ever met. He tells us so out of his own mouth multiple times a day.
>

[Andre Jute]

To any businessman, it is most definitely already "proved to be a causal relationship" that the number of government and grants and other efforts is inversely proportional to the quality of results -- and on an accelerating scale.. There's just too much history to argue with, unless you're a marxist who believes in BIG Government. -- AJ
>

[AMuzi]

On 9/19/2023 9:03 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Tue, 19 Sep 2023 16:33:08 -0400, Catrike Rider
> <sol...@drafting.not> wrote:
>
>> The Dept of Education has no contitutional right to exist.
>
> That's true. Also, none of the other federal regulatory agencies are
> mentioned in the constitution. I presume that means you also believe
> that all these other agencies don't have a right to exist?
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independent_agencies_of_the_United_States_government>
>
> <https://www2.ed.gov/about/landing.jhtml>
> "ED was created in 1980 by combining offices from several federal
> agencies."
>
> If you're wondering how the Dept of Ed got here, see the history
> section on this page:
> <https://www2.ed.gov/about/overview/focus/what.html>
>
>
>

It's not categorically true.

Art II Sec 2 is vague on that point, referring only to
'executive Departments' generally not specifically.

Washington formed Departments of State, War, Treasury and an
Attorney General (which IMHO are plenty enough) but that's
custom not Constitutional authorization.

[AMuzi]

On 9/19/2023 9:03 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

> On Tue, 19 Sep 2023 16:33:08 -0400, Catrike Rider
> <sol...@drafting.not> wrote:
>
>> The Dept of Education has no contitutional right to exist.
>
> That's true. Also, none of the other federal regulatory agencies are
> mentioned in the constitution. I presume that means you also believe
> that all these other agencies don't have a right to exist?
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independent_agencies_of_the_United_States_government>
>
> <https://www2.ed.gov/about/landing.jhtml>
> "ED was created in 1980 by combining offices from several federal
> agencies."
>
> If you're wondering how the Dept of Ed got here, see the history
> section on this page:
> <https://www2.ed.gov/about/overview/focus/what.html>
>
>
>

Breaking News this morning!

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2023/09/20/fact-sheet-biden-harris-administration-launches-american-climate-corps-to-train-young-people-in-clean-energy-conservation-and-climate-resilience-skills-create-good-paying-jobs-and-tackle-the-clima/

Well, I guess our troubles are over because they will
immediately control water vapor and solar radiation.

Either that or someone will grab a dictionary and review the
definition of hubris.

[Catrike Rider]

Individualism must be stamped out.

[Tom Kunich]

He is unaware that while telling us that phenylephrine is ineffective, after 86 years they STILL haven't determined if it is harmless or not. The trouble with Slow-com is that he doesn't know what he doesn't know and talks about things as if he did.

[Tom Kunich]

i.e. Krygowski

[Tom Kunich]

There are clearly departments of government that MUST be provided for - State, War and Treasury and a Federal Justice system for crimes that cross state lines. But todays government is formed largely to give some representatives brother-in-law a fat salaried job.

[AMuzi]

I'm unclear on the start of that but in more recent decades
the socio-political argument is that the very effective
pseudoephedrine

https://www.drugs.com/pseudoephedrine.html

is restricted because your average toothless uneducated
trailer denizen can master this simple chemical reduction

https://www.acsh.org/news/2017/09/12/why-sudafed-behind-counter-meth-chemistry-lesson-11812

Or more pithily for a chemist:

https://www.acsh.org/sites/default/files/Screen%20Shot%202017-09-13%20at%208.58.37%20AM.jpeg

(note 2017 publication date)

[AMuzi]

Sorry your argument hinges on 'must' which is a subjective
not Constitutional argument.

[Tom Kunich]

Are you arguing that
1. the Federal Government doesn't have the responsibility to remain on speaking terms with our neighbors?
2. We should leave protection of our country to the individual states?
3. That as a country, we should not issue currency at least acceptable anywhere in our country?
4. That criminals should be allowed to escape justice merely by crossing state lines?

I am definitely not clear at all about your comment and what it is supposed to mean.

[Andre Jute]

I think Andrew is more on the discretionary, YMMV side of constitutional possibilities than the prescriptive. I fall somewhere in the middle, but sure, you wouldn't have raised Adam Smith's eyebrow with your list of functions that private citizens cannot or will not perform and that therefore must be done by government. All the same, the other day I was reading Kissinger's magisterial opus Diplomacy again, and now I'm sorry I stopped with Wilson guaranteeing a second world war out of our pure stubborn stupidity. It might have been instructive for today's argument to have read as far as Kissinger's take on the backchannel diplomacy carried on by private citizens as recently as the Roosevelt Administration when Colonel House shuttled between the White House and Number Ten almost on a regular schedule. -- AJ
>

[AMuzi]

> Are you arguing that
> 1. the Federal Government doesn't have the responsibility to remain on speaking terms with our neighbors?
> 2. We should leave protection of our country to the individual states?
> 3. That as a country, we should not issue currency at least acceptable anywhere in our country?
> 4. That criminals should be allowed to escape justice merely by crossing state lines?
>
> I am definitely not clear at all about your comment and what it is supposed to mean.

I only meant that there are myriad ways to structure an
Administration and Washington chose to form four
Departments. Which proved effective but was entirely his
prerogative not a Constitutional mandate.

p.s. your #3: "No State shall... Make any Thing but gold and
silver coin a Tender in payment of Debts"

Art I Sec 8, "Congress hall have power...to coin Money,
regulate the value thereof, and foreign Coin, and fix the
Standard of Weights and Measures."

[Andre Jute]

The bigger the clown tent, the more chance there's a space for a mental and moral shortass like the Krygo Klown. Frankly, I'm surprised the Biden Maladministration hasn't yet called Franki-boy forward to be Minister Plenipotentiary of Futility. -- AJ
>

[Frank Krygowski]

On 9/19/2023 10:03 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Tue, 19 Sep 2023 16:33:08 -0400, Catrike Rider
> <sol...@drafting.not> wrote:
>
>> The Dept of Education has no contitutional right to exist.
>
> That's true. Also, none of the other federal regulatory agencies are
> mentioned in the constitution. I presume that means you also believe
> that all these other agencies don't have a right to exist?
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independent_agencies_of_the_United_States_government>
>
> <https://www2.ed.gov/about/landing.jhtml>
> "ED was created in 1980 by combining offices from several federal
> agencies."
>
> If you're wondering how the Dept of Ed got here, see the history
> section on this page:
> <https://www2.ed.gov/about/overview/focus/what.html>

I'm tired of the right wing's halfway measures. They should start
lobbying to immediately stamp out all education. Let people know where
they really stand!

--
- Frank Krygowski

[Catrike Rider]

....only bicycle riding education...

[AMuzi]

The Education Department is doing a fine job of eliminating
actual education as it is. That would seem to be a problem.

[Catrike Rider]

Not for the teacher's unions, which seem to approve....

[Tom Kunich]

Well if it were an office, he could always hope.

[Tom Kunich]

Between that muttonheads' Liebermann who brags about an education that was already 15 years behind when he got it, and Krygowski filled with the wonder of what a GREAT job he did of doing almost nothing at all, one might suppose that they didn't understand my simple statement - the Department of Education was supposed to set standards at which they clearly failed since Krygowski was employed at a school that received Federal funding.

[Tom Kunich]

Indeed, it turned into nothing but another Federal scheme to pass out taxpayer money for nothing visibly accomplished.

[Tom Kunich]

Unions are a good idea IF they do something other than get their members higher pay.

[Frank Krygowski]

On 9/20/2023 1:54 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>
> Between that muttonheads' Liebermann who brags about an education that was already 15 years behind when he got it, and Krygowski filled with the wonder of what a GREAT job he did of doing almost nothing at all, one might suppose that they didn't understand my simple statement - the Department of Education was supposed to set standards at which they clearly failed since Krygowski was employed at a school that received Federal funding.

Tom, you obviously know nothing about education.

--
- Frank Krygowski

[Frank Krygowski]

On 9/20/2023 12:58 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>
> The Education Department is doing a fine job of eliminating actual
> education as it is. That would seem to be a problem.

To me, that comes across as one of many complaints against any and/or
all government agencies. As such, it rings hollow.

What would you specifically change?

--
- Frank Krygowski

[AMuzi]

The real money is in benefits and pensions.

[AMuzi]

Well for starts, sell the buildings and vehicles and fire
the staff.

https://www.economist.com/united-states/2021/06/12/american-schools-teach-reading-all-wrong


https://www.nationsreportcard.gov/reading/nation/scores/?grade=12

Do it for the children.

[Catrike Rider]

"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are 'I'm from
the government and I'm here to help."

-- Ronald Reagan

[John B.]

On Wed, 20 Sep 2023 08:19:28 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Wednesday, September 20, 2023 at 3:23:26?AM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:

Well, lets see. Vicks introduced Sinex Nasal Spray, a phenylephrine
nose spray, in 1959 (that's 64 years ago), and U.S. brand sprays
containing phenylephrine, currently sold, are Neo-Synephrine,
Nostril, Pretz-D, Rhinall, Tur-Bi-Cal, and Vicks Sinex.

For the benifit of the less intelligent of our posters.
https://www.fda.gov/drugs/drug-safety-and-availability/fda-clarifies-results-recent-advisory-committee-meeting-oral-phenylephrine

--
Cheers,

John B.

[John B.]

On Wed, 20 Sep 2023 10:28:50 -0500, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 9/20/2023 10:24 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:

But is a crime committed in one state punishable in another state? I
don't believe it is, as if it was there would be no "extradition"
laws... allowing a villain captured in one state to be moved across
state borders to the state in which the crime was committed.
--
Cheers,

John B.

[John B.]

On Wed, 20 Sep 2023 10:54:12 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:

And thus speaks a chap who wasn't sufficiently intelligent graduate
from high school.
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Frank Krygowski]

On Wednesday, September 20, 2023 at 3:36:18 PM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
> On 9/20/2023 2:20 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > On 9/20/2023 12:58 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> >>
> >> The Education Department is doing a fine job of
> >> eliminating actual education as it is. That would seem to
> >> be a problem.
> >
> > To me, that comes across as one of many complaints against
> > any and/or all government agencies. As such, it rings hollow.
> >
> > What would you specifically change?
> >
> Well for starts, sell the buildings and vehicles and fire
> the staff.
>
> https://www.economist.com/united-states/2021/06/12/american-schools-teach-reading-all-wrong
>
>
> https://www.nationsreportcard.gov/reading/nation/scores/?grade=12
>
> Do it for the children.

You don't like the reading scores, so we should no longer try to teach kids to read??

- Frank Krygowski

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Wed, 20 Sep 2023 10:54:12 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:

>Between that muttonheads' Liebermann who brags about an
>education that was already 15 years behind when he got it,

15 years behind what? Please try to be more specific when you're
making accusations. My guess(tm) is that I was about 7 years behind
the state of the art, and about 4 years behind consumer technology.
College students are taught the basics and not the advanced
technologies required to do state of the art research. By the time I
graduated (1971) the textbooks that I used when I entered college in
1965:
<https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeff-liebermann-151823/>
were long obsolete.

>... one might suppose that they didn't understand my simple

>statement - the Department of Education was supposed to set
>standards at which they clearly failed since Krygowski was
>employed at a school that received Federal funding.

Amazing. The federal department of education was created in 1980 or
about 9 years AFTER I graduated. I suspect it might be rather
difficult for a non-existent department to provide curriculum
oversight 9 to 15 years before it first existed. See "History"
section:
<https://www2.ed.gov/about/overview/focus/what.html>

Please note that college curriculum is influenced by the Dept of
Education because the Dept of Education manages accreditation:
<https://www2.ed.gov/admins/finaid/accred/index.html>
It is somehow related to the federal funding of student loans. I
managed to graduate a few years before the skool of engineering was
accredited. The main feature of accreditation was more general
education classes and FEWER engineering classes and labs. I
considered accreditation a giant step backwards.

--
Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

[John B.]

And as Mark Twain "Get a bicycle. You will not regret it, if you
live"
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Jeff Liebermann]

Sure he does. Tom has read three entire libraries.

06/07/2022
<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/QNPNSofg064/m/Xaamy15iBQAJ>
"I would warrant that I've read more than 20 times more books than you
have. I read out three public libraries, the military library and all
of the books I used to gain the knowledge to become an engineer."

[John B.]

On Wed, 20 Sep 2023 17:50:06 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>
wrote:

>On Wed, 20 Sep 2023 15:17:27 -0400, Frank Krygowski
><frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>>On 9/20/2023 1:54 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>
>>> Between that muttonheads' Liebermann who brags about an education that was already 15 years behind when he got it, and Krygowski filled with the wonder of what a GREAT job he did of doing almost nothing at all, one might suppose that they didn't understand my simple statement - the Department of Education was supposed to set standards at which they clearly failed since Krygowski was employed at a school that received Federal funding.
>>
>>Tom, you obviously know nothing about education.
>
>Sure he does. Tom has read three entire libraries.
>
>06/07/2022
><https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/QNPNSofg064/m/Xaamy15iBQAJ>
>"I would warrant that I've read more than 20 times more books than you
>have. I read out three public libraries, the military library and all
>of the books I used to gain the knowledge to become an engineer."

Well (:-) Books aside is there any evidence that Tommy Boy was ever
accredited as a real live "Engineer", as opposed to a "imaginatively
engineer"?
--
Cheers,

John B.

[AMuzi]

Achievement is superb at Success Academy and a few hundred
other non union private entities with 'severely
disadvantaged' students but with order and practical
pedagogy (notably not in accord with Education Department
guidelines such as phonics vs 'see and say' and classics
rather than textbooks among other differences.)

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Thu, 21 Sep 2023 08:06:39 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>

No evidence. I posted a photo of my diploma. I haven't seen anything
from Tom besides claims of having a "degree in navigation" from Chabot
College, CSU Maritime Accademy, and College of Marin.

Interesting article by Steve Wozniak on why he went back to college to
finish his studies and obtain a degree in electrical engineering and
computer sciences from UC Berkeley:
(May 14, 1986)
"A UC Berkeley Degree Is Now the Apple of Steve Wozniak’s Eye"
<https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1986-05-14-vw-5389-story.html>

[Catrike Rider]

On Wed, 20 Sep 2023 17:18:43 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski
<frkr...@gmail.com> wrote:

Krygowski isn't even good at creating strawmen....

[Catrike Rider]

On Wed, 20 Sep 2023 17:46:49 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>
wrote:

+1

But isn't increasing the college's income is the more important thing?

[Andre Jute]

So, Slow Joni, by your own reference, chosen by yourself, for 22 years between 1937 and 1955 the FDA allowed phenylephrine to be sold solely in an ineffective form, but you call Mr Kunich a liar for pointing it out because 22 years later a phenylephrine spray became available.
>
Your problem, Slow Joni, is that you're such a cocky little man, you don't even know how stupid you look daily, more often than not several time a day. And pointlessly vicious besides.
>
By the standards you claim to adhere to, evidenced in this thread, Slow Joni Slocomb, you're a liar for not mentioning that for 22 years the FDA let Vicks sell phenylephrine only in the ineffective oral form.
>
Furthermore, Slow Joni, since no one in his right mind will believe that an ignorant lout like you knew anything about phenylephrine before Mr Kunich mentioned it, you're a thief for trading on his knowledge to abuse him.
>
You're lying, thieving scum, John Slocumb.
>
Andre Jute
I want to wash my hands every time I see that worthless mental and moral shortass Slow Joni in my thread.
>

[Andre Jute]

Calculate what it costs per pupil, close down the Federal DoE in Washington and fire its entire staff, give each child's parent half the money it costs per pupil (administered through the Internal Revenue with existing staff, just another tick box on the annual return), let qualified teachers bid for classroom space and then try to attract parents to their teaching skills. The bad teachers will soon be out of the profession and the remaining ones will teach the children what the parents want them taught, not what minority pressure groups of perverts want them groomed for. If it was good enough for the great Adam Smith to be paid according to the number of students he attracted, it is good enough for American teachers. And if parents can be called up for jury duty, they are already presumed smart enough to hire and fire teachers.
>
Andre Jute
The market will sort out the educators from the careerists.
>

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Thu, 21 Sep 2023 03:42:08 -0400, Catrike Rider
<sol...@drafting.not> wrote:

>But isn't increasing the college's income is the more important thing?

It depends on the type of college. Income, donations, bequests, out
of country tuition, funding scholarships, etc are all very important
for private colleges, but less so for state funded colleges, such as
those I attended. I never understood the motivation of the
accreditation committees to emphasize liberal arts and general
education over technical topics. I attended college during the Viet
Nam era, where there were far more prospective college students
seeking a college for obtaining a draft deferment than for an
education. I was one of the former. At the time, the colleges made
themselves very unpopular with the general public as a result of
widespread protests eventually culminating in May 1970 with the Kent
State massacre.
<https://www.kent.edu/may-4-historical-accuracy>
It was fairly obvious in California that the general public did not
want to continue funding schools for protesters funded by taxes. As I
vaguely recall, during the 1970 election, almost all school funding
measures on the ballot failed. Then governor Ronald Reagan acted
accordingly.

The relationship between private, foreign, public donations to
colleges and politics is fairly complicated and I don't have the time
right now to offer what little I know about the topic.

[Catrike Rider]

On Thu, 21 Sep 2023 09:34:15 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>
wrote:

I hope you noticed my tongue in my cheek when I replied to your post.
College tuition has gotten completely out of hand.

[sms]

On 9/21/2023 11:34 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Thu, 21 Sep 2023 03:42:08 -0400, Catrike Rider
> <sol...@drafting.not> wrote:
>
>> But isn't increasing the college's income is the more important thing?
>
> It depends on the type of college. Income, donations, bequests, out
> of country tuition, funding scholarships, etc are all very important
> for private colleges, but less so for state funded colleges, such as
> those I attended.

It depends on the state. My state university gets hundreds of millions
of dollars in private donations. They also get a lot of money from
out-of-state tuition, especially at the post-graduate level, and for the
medical school and other specialty schools.

--
“If you are not an expert on a subject, then your opinions about it
really do matter less than the opinions of experts. It's not
indoctrination nor elitism. It's just that you don't know as much as
they do about the subject.”—Tin Foil Awards

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Thu, 21 Sep 2023 12:38:18 -0400, Catrike Rider

I didn't notice. I tend to take most questions seriously. I'll try
not to make that mistake again.

"College Tuition Inflation Rate"
<https://educationdata.org/college-tuition-inflation-rate>

I just found one of my old checkbook registers. In 1969, I paid about
$200 per quarter for tuition and fees. At 3 quarters per year for
education and one quarter off for recovering my finances, that would
be $600 per year or $5,174 today using the BLS inflation calculator:
<https://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl?cost1=600&year1=196901&year2=202308>
That's a long way from the typical $30,000/year today. Hmmmm... Could
it be that the BLS inflation calculator is that far off?

From my college:
"Tuition and fees increased by 716% in 50 years"
<https://mustangnews.net/cal-poly-tuition-50-years/>

I'm taking an early lunch break from yard work and firewood. Another
few days and I should be either dead or done:
<https://photos.app.goo.gl/ihpdczg9oDqku8Ru8>

[Tom Kunich]

I suppose but remember that this was a large group of teachers that would otherwise have simply been dumped penniless or nearly so on the public upon forced retirement.

[Tom Kunich]

My wife is a couple of years younger than me and taught mostly at private schools. When tested the three grandchildren were TWO years behind in reading. After she took over during the lockdown, in six months they were two years ahead. How is it that my mother who was not a teacher got me to read by the 2nd grade. I want to stress that this was not because of Unions but because of a total lack of standards. How can a teacher be expected to teach when they were never trained in the means to do so?

[Tom Kunich]

Very Slow-come knows nothing that he cannot find on Google and the first negative thing he can find is where he stops looking. It is a carnival watching him trying to make sense of anything. Maybe he should try to tell us about riding into Bangkok when he couldn't even put a leg over a bicycle. There's a good reason I put him in the kill file.

[Tom Kunich]

Liebermann was simply demonstrating his engineering skills. Or rather - his entire lack of them.

[John B.]

On Fri, 22 Sep 2023 08:09:05 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Thursday, September 21, 2023 at 3:28:30?AM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:

Ah Tommy, you and your Afro Irish cohort simply confirm my statement

"the less intelligent of our posters".

I provide a statement by the FDA confirming that phenylephrine was
ineffective as a decongestant when used as an oral medicine and was
effective as a nasal spray, and you go on about riding a bicycle in
Bangkok.

Tell us Tommy, have you ridden a bicycle in Bangkok? Have you ever
been in Bangkok?

Or more to the point do you realize that the phenylephrine you screech
about is used, successfully, in a number of medicines?

As for kill files (:-) Yes, I would guess that you do have my posts
killed. After all you wouldn't want to read, day after day, proof that
you are a liar... or perhaps you aren't a liar but simply an
individual with the intelligence of a pet rock.
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Andre Jute]

On Friday, September 22, 2023 at 11:43:15 PM UTC+1, John B. wrote:
>
The Thai Turd starts back-pedalling

>... or perhaps you aren't a liar but simply an
> individual with the intelligence of a pet rock.
>

Pedal faster, Slow Johnny, or you could die before you purge your besetting sin of bearing false witness.
>
Unsigned out of contempt for a born kulak.
>

[Tom Kunich]

On a good day Slow-come would just barely qualify as a Thai Turd. Maybe he should tell us more about his riding bicycles everywhere when he is now so old that he couldn't even lift a leg over a woman's bike.

[Andre Jute]

Must be awfully lonely for the poor little man if he has so much time on his hands to abuse'n'me. Maybe he should get a hobby, perhaps collecting bottle caps. -- AJ
>

[Tom Kunich]

I'm sure that he could find a Golden 90's Dating site where he could impress older women with his massive amounts of information obtained via Google advertisements.