walmart schwinn S30 bike
bicyclette
schwinn s30 (link below) and say giant warp ds2 shown in the other link
with respect to the huge price difference? Is it the case that now low
end stores are carrying comparable bikes that the LBSs sell, for less?
http://bikeway.com/site/itemdetails.cfm?ID=665&Catalog=39&sort=Price
Dan Brussee
We wont get into the frame here.
Shocks. RST 191 compared to RockShox Pilot XC
Definite step up in components. 7speed for Schwinn, 8 for Giant,
Bottom line is that the Schwinn might be a reasonable bike at the
price, but you WILL have to pay to have it assembled (not a good idea
to have Wally's guys do it), etc.
At this price level, dual suspension is just a joke anyway. Pick up a
decent front suspension only bike at a bike shop. You will be happy
you did.
JeffK
Walmart's tactic is pressuring suppliers to drive the cost down, regardless
of all other measures. The only goal is that the bike travels past the cash
register.
Expect the absolute crummiest bike which looks OK in the store, and nothing
more.
carl...@comcast.net
Dear Jeff,
As of yesterday, my Fury RoadMaster has delivered eighty
4-mile rides in as many days, averaging 18.84 mph and a
maximum of 27.5 mph on the flats with a fine tail wind
yesterday.
The ride includes eight speed humps that I hit at or over 20
mph, but the 15-speed Fury RoadMaster has yet to resent this
abuse, even though I weigh a bit over 190 pounds, more than
the typical member of the target market of gentlemen aged
10-17.
So far, it's hard to argue that I got anything but a bargain
for my $57.71, including tax.
Cheers,
Carl Fogel
A Muzi
I was driving through a sloppy Chicago winter with a
Japanese woman on her first visit here, She commented that
America had so many rusty dented ugly decrepit cars compared
to Japan. I pointed out that our secondary markets are quite
active and efficient such that a woman of her station (
typesetter by day, waitress in the evening) would in USA
almost certainly own a car. She was astounded that such a
thing could be possible, car ownership in Japan being far
beyond her means.
I wouldn't own one of those bikes either, nor have I ever
stepped inside a WalMart (Having read Bill Quinn's book).
But they serve some function. When people stop buying them,
WalMart will use the floor space for something else.
Our end of the market simply cannot deliver a new vehicle
for $69.95. As Mr Fogel can attest, they may be rough but
they are rideable. WalMart has proved there is a market for
them.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
Werehatrack
The Schwinn has a featureless front fork and an essentially undamped
rear shock. I'd expect a mix os low-bid components in the drivetrain
which will be functional but not optimal; note that it specifies that
the shifters are Shimano, and that the rear der is Shimano's low-level
Altus unit, but nothing is said about the chain, cranks, BB or
chainrings. Note also that the rear cluster is a freewheel, not a
cassette; the inherently more flxible rear axle of a freewheel comes
whith that economization. The Giant's characterisitics are more
exemplary of a serious bike maker's above-entry-level unit, with Deore
rear der, Alivio front der, RockShox fork, etc. Every component I
could see for which a spec is given is a better item on the Giant than
on the S30, although I might personally prefer the S30's trigger
shifters if the Giant is using gripshifts.
Bottom line: From what I can see, both are priced according to their
value. Whether any specific individual purchaser needs the added
value of the Giant or not is a matter for the purchaser to consider.
Certainly both units can be ridden. How long they will last and how
well they will perform is a matter which, once again, must be viewed
in light of the rider's real needs. For the casual user with no
performance goals, the S30 may very well be adequate, or it may not.
This is the reason why there are so many choices in the marketplace;
there are many different levels of rider, with wildly disparate needs.
There are certainly plenty of buyers for whom the S30 is a perfectly
good choice. Whether you're one of them is a matter that I can't
decide for you.
--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail.
Typoes are not a bug, they're a feature.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.
Pat
OP is trying to convince himself that the cheap bike is the same as the
better built one and the ONLY difference is Wal-Mart's genius in marketing.
Sorry. Taint so.
Pat in TX
d...@florence.edu
My concern would be how much is it going to cost to maintain? If you
are planning on putting a lot of miles on the bike and cannot do the
maintenance yourself it might end up costing you more in the long run.
Less expensive components often do not hold their adjustments as well.
What kinds of bills are you likely to have to pay for adjustments?
The technicians at your LBS have more tools and experience setting up
bikes and will catch things like loose bottom brackets or badly built
wheels before the bike goes out the door.
Callistus Valerius
regardless
> >of all other measures. The only goal is that the bike travels past the
cash
> >register.
> Dear Jeff,
>
> As of yesterday, my Fury RoadMaster has delivered eighty
> 4-mile rides in as many days, averaging 18.84 mph and a
> maximum of 27.5 mph on the flats with a fine tail wind
> yesterday.
>
> The ride includes eight speed humps that I hit at or over 20
> mph, but the 15-speed Fury RoadMaster has yet to resent this
> abuse, even though I weigh a bit over 190 pounds, more than
> the typical member of the target market of gentlemen aged
> 10-17.
>
> So far, it's hard to argue that I got anything but a bargain
> for my $57.71, including tax.
This is a cycling newsgroup, what are you talking about?
carl...@comcast.net
Dear Ballistics Precarious,
William the Conqueror, whose cause was favoured by the pope,
was soon submitted to by the English, who wanted leaders,
and had been of late much accustomed to usurpation and
conquest. Edwin and Morcar, the earls of Mercia and
Northumbria, declared for him: and even Stigand, the
patriotic archbishop of Canterbury, found it advisable to go
with Edgar Atheling to meet William and offer him the crown.
William's conduct at first was moderate. But the insolence
of his Normans--
How are you getting on now, my dear?
C.L. Dodson
bicyclette
you experienced guys would see the differences right away. Thanks for
all the feedback. Actually I have been wondering about the larger
question of the impact of China/Walmart on the LBS in the broader sense,
but that is a subject that has been probably hammered to death already.
Callistus Valerius
> > This is a cycling newsgroup, what are you talking about?
> >
>
> Dear Ballistics Precarious,
>
> William the Conqueror, whose cause was favoured by the pope,
> was soon submitted to by the English, who wanted leaders,
> and had been of late much accustomed to usurpation and
> conquest. Edwin and Morcar, the earls of Mercia and
> Northumbria, declared for him: and even Stigand, the
> patriotic archbishop of Canterbury, found it advisable to go
> with Edgar Atheling to meet William and offer him the crown.
> William's conduct at first was moderate. But the insolence
> of his Normans--
>
> How are you getting on now, my dear?
>
> C.L. Dodson
That English lit majors prefer to ride Walmart bikes?
carl...@comcast.net
Dear Logistics Gregarious,
Or perhaps that mathematics professors prefer boneshakers?
http://libserv3.princeton.edu/rbsc2/portfolio/lc3/00000014.htm
Lewis Carroll
Dan Brussee
Oh yeah?
Werehatrack
Reader's Disgust Condensed Version:
The LBS has been impacted by the Wal-Mart bikes in these ways at a
minimum:
- First-time and low-requirenments bike buyers seldom can tell the
difference in quality between Wal-Mart's bikes and those at the LBS,
and so they have an inaccurate perception that the bikes at the LBS
are more expensive without being better. This influences them to stay
away from the LBS later.
- People who buy a crummy or ill-fitting bike at Wal-Mart and find
that they don't like to ride it are unlikely to realize that they
could have had a better one at the LBS; instead, they simply don't
ride.
- The concentration of low-end bike purchasing at the Wal-Mart type
of stores has caused the mass-production manufacturers to reduce the
number of midrange models they offer due to the fact that Wal-Mart
carries no midrange or high-end units at all...and it is apparent that
many *potential* midrange purchase customers are going to the big
retailers like Oshman's, REI, and the like instead of the LBS...and
those sporting goods stores don't want an extensive line of models,
and often don't want anything with drop bars at all.
Add to that the existence of bike specialty store chains like Cycle
Spectrum, where the high-profit but factually pedestrian Motobecane
line is featured, and the true LBS is hard pressed to make a profit
these days.
Q.
news:10b23pp...@corp.supernews.com...
<snip>
> I wouldn't own one of those bikes either, nor have I ever
> stepped inside a WalMart (Having read Bill Quinn's book).
> But they serve some function. When people stop buying them,
> WalMart will use the floor space for something else.
>
> Our end of the market simply cannot deliver a new vehicle
> for $69.95. As Mr Fogel can attest, they may be rough but
> they are rideable. WalMart has proved there is a market for
> them.
There are plenty of good, decent, used bikes for free or nearly so ... we
all know that. However, you bring up a good point about Wal Mart. People
need affordable bikes, which is why I suspect Wal Mart is behind the whole
"send perfectly good used bike to needy people in Africa and get them out of
the USA" scam (c:
C.Q.C.
Werehatrack
He's talking about the current status of his long-term ride test of a
Mall-Wart el cheapo bike. His point is "It ain't broke yet."
Werehatrack
And where would they get one today, short of applying for a research
grant to allow them to build one?
Jonesy
[snip adventures with bike-shaped toys]
> So far, it's hard to argue that I got anything but a bargain
> for my $57.71, including tax.
Mr. Fogel:
During one of my regular drop-offs at Goodwill, I noticed two bicyles
- one a townie cruiser, and the other a KHS road bike. The townie was
$15.00, and looked as though it could use a rear tube and some
cleaning/lubing. Another $10.00, for the extravagant.
The KHS road bike was much more interesting. For $10.00, the wheels
were true, and free-spinning, plus they were holding air (finger and
opposed thumb squeeze test.) The drivetrain was Suntour, and looked
in need of clean/lube as well, but no rust and everything looked in
decent shape. The stem shifters looked a little worn, but I didn't
test their functionality. The brakes had plenty of pad left, and were
in good adjustment. They also worked reasonably, but a little
clean/lube would not have been out of place.
I would guess that a little bit of spray solvent and some motor oil
would be all that would need to be purchased to make this thing a
real, functional piece of transportation. In addition, the Fury would
have a tough time keeping up with a real road bike, even if you
installed road slicks on the Fury. Call it $20.00, and some time at
the local library printing Mr. Brown's helpful pages. In addition, I
would guess that this KHS road bike would stand the test of time
better than the Fury.
No, the Fury was no bargain at $60.00, even though it might transport
you 1000 miles, or even more. In fact, I'll further surmise that the
only reason the Fury is not holding down the garage floor is that you
are trying to prove a point. Here's the point: when uninformed
people buy junk at Sam Walton's joint, they might actually get some
use out of that junk, and may even continue using it for well past
it's nominal design lifetime.
But more likely, the junk will end up where all junk ends up - my
basement, errr, the landfill.
--
Robert F. Jones
Werehatrack
have said:
>During one of my regular drop-offs at Goodwill, I noticed two bicyles
>- one a townie cruiser, and the other a KHS road bike. The townie was
>$15.00, and looked as though it could use a rear tube and some
>cleaning/lubing. Another $10.00, for the extravagant.
Such relative bargains are not uncommon, though they more often than
not are afflicted with short-spacing drop frames. There was an
Autobike at the local store this morning, with no more serious
apparent shortcomings than a lack of air in the tires...but that's a
curiosity, not a real ride-it-lots bike.
>... Call it $20.00, and some time at
>the local library printing Mr. Brown's helpful pages. In addition, I
>would guess that this KHS road bike would stand the test of time
>better than the Fury.
Oddly enough, I also see lots of Roadmaster-level bikes at the bulk
disposal sales for the two major goods-accepting charities; that's
where the stuff goes which isn't routed to their own stores. The
important datum, however, is that for those with markings that can be
used to determine age, it's not uncommon to discover that they're 15
years old or more...and have been ridden long miles in that time.
Equally common are the neglected LBS-level bikes with rotted tires,
stuck shifters, gummed freewheels and the like. Both types get
wholesaled in substantial numbers to the specialists who serve the
low-income markets; thrift stores, for the most part.
>No, the Fury was no bargain at $60.00, even though it might transport
>you 1000 miles, or even more. In fact, I'll further surmise that the
>only reason the Fury is not holding down the garage floor is that you
>are trying to prove a point. Here's the point: when uninformed
>people buy junk at Sam Walton's joint, they might actually get some
>use out of that junk, and may even continue using it for well past
>it's nominal design lifetime.
>
>But more likely, the junk will end up where all junk ends up - my
>basement, errr, the landfill.
For a variety of reasons, I'll agree with part of that...but only
part. In the backyard bikepile, there are at least a couple of
still-serviceable Roadmaster-level (read: mass-market cheap)
heavy-steel-frame bikes with low-performance components and lots of
miles of usage. One was acquired as trade goods for swapped stuff;
I'll pass them on to the Third Ward Bike Project when I get too many
of them piled up, because they ride OK and they are not falling apart;
someone can doubtless get some good usage out of them.
The point is that expectations and demands of riders vary, and it is
perfectly possible for someone who rides often but not hard or
abusively to get many thousands of miles out of a cheap Mall-Wart
bike...and for the rider whose limited goal is merely to have a bike
present which will get them to the convenience store or some other
nearby destination and little else, what need do they have for
anything more than a cheap walgoose? Carl's Roadmaster, with some
minor maintenance of a reasonably trivial nature, will very likely
outlast the casual user's need for a bike of any kind. From where I
sit, for the appropriate owner, that makes it a bargain. Sure, the
Goodwill bike for $25 total investment might be a better deal, but can
you always rely on finding such a bargain when you need it? No. I've
acquired a number of bikes at Goodwill which were absolute steals. I
have yet, however, to find one that was worth carrying home when I was
at Goodwill specifically looking for one either for myself of for
someone else. There's a big difference between bargains of
opportunity and bargains reliably available on a daily basis.
Be all that as it may, I quite agree that many of the bikes sold at
Wal-Mart, K-Mart, Target and their ilk are, for want of a more
delicate term, crap by the standards of the demanding bike enthusiast,
and that the label is deserved in that context; those bikes do not
suit the needs of such a rider. There are, however, a lot more people
in the world besides the demanding bike enthusiasts, many of whose
expectations and requirements are far less stringent, and it is wrong
to unqualifiedly disparage the product that is appropriate for *them*
merely because it does not serve the needs of every cyclist. Rider
requirements vary. Yes, it's a damn shame when someone who needed a
better bike buys a Walgoose and gets discouraged because it just
doesn't do what they wanted to do, but it's every bit as much of a
shame when someone abandons the idea of buying a bike at all because
they've been told that they should avoid the Wal-Mart bikes like the
plague...and they can't afford anything at the LBS.
TJ Poseno
horrible bike, but if you plan to do anything like jump or anything.
It wont hold up. Also, if you plan to ride street, the bobbing
suspenson will get old really fast. Otheriwise it isnt oo bad of a
bike. But I would suggest buying a new hardtail, or a used good bike.
Rick Onanian
>Oh yeah?
Yeah.
--
Rick Onanian
Rick Onanian
<rau...@earthWEEDSlink.net> wrote:
>those sporting goods stores don't want an extensive line of models,
>and often don't want anything with drop bars at all.
Exception: Here in the northeast US, Dick's Sporting Goods sells
Diamondback drop bar road bikes. They generally only have one or two
of these bikes in stock, and for some reason, they usually are
missing the price tag, but they are there, and they're cheap too.
They appear to be reasonable bikes, and I'm not entirely sure that
Dick's employees are as inept mechanics as Walmart's. They have
proper equipment, and even sell good tools too; and they seem to
have employees whose sole job is bike mechanic, although I've never
seen one actually busy on a bike.
--
Rick Onanian
Rick Onanian
>As of yesterday, my Fury RoadMaster has delivered eighty
>4-mile rides in as many days, averaging 18.84 mph and a
>maximum of 27.5 mph on the flats with a fine tail wind
>yesterday.
You rat bastard!
I had an average speed like that on Saturday. For a 1.5 mile ride.
On a flat bike path. Riding a bike I built for time trials...not
that I expect to win. I should probably ride a Fury just so I have
an excuse. Then again, if anybody knows your results...I better ride
a garbage-rescued Murray.
I did have an even faster ride for some reasonable mileage in an
impromptu paceline with a tailwind...on a bike that cost twenty
times as much as your Plymouth^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^HRoadmaster Fury.
Sheesh.
--
Rick "Name it Christine!" Onanian
Werehatrack
Recently, at least three of the local Mall-Warts have hired a
full-time bike assembler whose job is to make sure the rack stays full
of ready-to-ride bikes without the need to have a huge back-stock of
assembled units, and those stores' stock seems to be in pretty decent
shape. At least one of the guys seems to know what he's doing; he was
cussing the makers of one of the bikes in two languages when I walked
by, and was digging in his box of miscellaneous hardware looking for
(I believe) a replacement for the stripped seat clamp stud he had in
his hand. I had a chance to talk to him a little later, and he did,
indeed, know which end of a screwdriver to beat on, and which hammer
to use. OTOH, in my travels I often run across units of that chain
where the ceiling in the sporting goods and toy section of the store
is insulated with fully assembled bikes, and I doubt that they're
anything but speedily thrown together, if the ones on the accessible
rack are any indication. I stopped and counted them in one of the
stores; there were 226 bikes hanging from hooks on the roof support
beams. That wasn't an especially heavily-stocked example. I've seen
places where the store's roof looked like the area in front of The
Hague inverted, except with less pigeon shit and better paint.
carl...@comcast.net
Dear Rick,
Cheer up--I suspect that I didn't make myself clear and
misled you into crediting the Fury RoadMaster with
outlandish powers.
Its27.5 mph maxium-speed was just its highest speed recorded
on one ride with a tailwind, not an average of 27.5 mph for
the whole 4 miles.
At one point on that ride, I was toiling into the wind at
about 14 mph and glumly thumbing down a gear.
The average speed for 80 four-mile rides is only 18.84 mph.
The record for a single ride so far is just a hair over 20
mph, repeated on several extremely calm days.
The Fury RoadMaster's average maxium-speed for all those
rides is only 20.21 mph, well below that exceptionally windy
27.5 mph day.
Hope this makes your bicycle feel better.
Carl Fogel
Rick Onanian
>On Mon, 24 May 2004 21:26:10 -0400, Rick Onanian
><spam...@cox.net> wrote:
>>On Sun, 23 May 2004 13:47:10 -0600, carl...@comcast.net wrote:
>>>As of yesterday, my Fury RoadMaster has delivered eighty
>>>4-mile rides in as many days, averaging 18.84 mph and a
>>
>>
>>I had an average speed like that on Saturday. For a 1.5 mile ride.
>
>misled you into crediting the Fury RoadMaster with
>outlandish powers.
And I suspect that I didn't make my quoting sufficiently clear.
>At one point on that ride, I was toiling into the wind at
>about 14 mph and glumly thumbing down a gear.
I don't know if I've ever gone 14 mph into a headwind.
>The average speed for 80 four-mile rides is only 18.84 mph.
"Only 18.84 mph". Are you sure your computer is reading mph, not
kph, and it's set accurately?
Okay, I'll consider the short length of your rides, anyway. I
suppose I could average 18.84mph often on four-mile rides over level
(except for speed humps) land, but I don't know if I could average
that speed over 80 such rides, consecutive.
>The record for a single ride so far is just a hair over 20
>mph, repeated on several extremely calm days.
That's my record too, but as I said, on a much lighter, more
aerodynamic bike, and only once, in a demi-paceline with a tailwind.
I did, at least, make that average over a longer ride including some
light hill climbing.
I hope that I'm proving that you're a much stronger rider than me,
not that we should all ride heavy, badly manufactured, misassembled
bikes.
>Hope this makes your bicycle feel better.
Considering the length of the rides helps, but then the consistency
(and consecutive, at that!) makes it worse again.
--
Rick Onanian
carl...@comcast.net
<spam...@cox.net> wrote:
Dear Rick,
Well, yes, the computer is set accurately to the measured
circumference of the front tire and cross-checked off a
different one on my touring bike and a couple of cars.
Every odometer that I've tried insists that it's 1.00 miles
from the fourth speed hump in the park to my garage door,
plus or minus about 53 feet.
My touring bike's various odometers have always agreed that
it's 6.00 miles from the second expansion joint in my
driveway to the curb at the ticket hut at the dam, plus or
minus up to about 106 feet.
And so on, for all sorts of truly boring distance marks. An
electronic bike odometer calibrated to the front wheel is a
ridiculously accurate device. Slightly lower readings on the
same route are usually a sign that you're cutting inside
corners (shorter distance) or going faster (and lengthening
and thereby reducing your wobbling track).
The stop-watch on my wrist-watch keeps agreeing with the
elapsed time on the computer. Right now, an average of 12:56
for 4.06 miles is 4.06 miles divided by 776 seconds, times
3600 seconds per minutes is . . . carry the one . . . 18.8
mph or so.
But . . .
A) It' s only a four mile ride. Longer would be slower.
B) It's not quite as flat as a pancake, but there's no place
where pancake batter would run downhill. Battle Mountain
might be flatter, but not by much. Even a gentle rise slows
you down.
C) Apart from the four speed humps that the Fury RoadMaster
goes over twice at full speed, the pavement has maybe a
dozen spots uneven enough to be noticed if you were pushing.
a shopping cart. I avoid them, since I hear that irregular
surfaces increase rolling resistance and slow you down.
D) There are . . . uh, twenty-seven turns, but only four
that might involve coasting for a second or two--braking is
only for traffic and to stop at the end. I gather that
braking slows you down.
E) Damned little traffic. The geese in the park and idiots
wandering on foot down the middle of quiet two-way streets
are about the size of it. That idiots stroll down the center
of the streets where I ride should tell you something about
the neighborhood.
F) Thinner air, less drag--the 4,750 feet above sea level
contour line might be a foot below my house. Topozone shows
a six-foot rise to the next contour line half a mile down
the road:
http://www.topozone.com/map.asp?z=13&n=4235414.00010789&e=531198.000000002&datum=nad83
I'm about dead center and the park is the green area to the
west. If you plug in 1500 meters for the altitude on the
Analytic Cycling site (replace 1.226 with 1.056), the
default speed rises from 7.46 meters per second to 7.64
meters per second, or 16.68 to 17.09 miles per hour, almost
half a mile per hour faster:
http://www.analyticcycling.com/ForcesSpeed_Page.html
So . . . I suspect that most posters on rec.bicycles.tech
would do as well or better if they were silly enough to try
pedalling a Fury RoadMaster and lucky enough to have such a
fabulously flat, smooth, fast route.
Think of a velodrome track wandering through elm trees,
forget all those things like brakes and turns and rough
pavement and traffic, and limit yourself to a twelve-minute
spin--you'd be surprised how much faster it is than real
life, with a few more hours to go, hills, traffic, rough
pavement, and so forth.
(Or it could be the Fury RoadMaster.)
Carl Fogel
bicyclette
> Recently, at least three of the local Mall-Warts have hired a
> full-time bike assembler whose job is to make sure the rack stays full
> of ready-to-ride bikes without the need to have a huge back-stock of
> assembled units, and those stores' stock seems to be in pretty decent
> shape. At least one of the guys seems to know what he's doing;
Can one assume that at both Walmart and even Dick's Sporting Goods (I'm
in NE too) the mechanics will not stress relieve wheels when preping the
bike or are the wheels preped in the box?
Werehatrack
I think the safest approach is that this step should not be assumed to
have been taken. It's not hard to do it, and it doesn't take long,
and best of all, as far as i can see, there's no hazard in
accidentally doing it twice.
Rick Onanian
>F) Thinner air, less drag--the 4,750 feet above sea level
>contour line might be a foot below my house.
Thinner air, less oxygen in lungs.
Other than that, thank you for that message. My pride has stopped
bleeding.
--
Rick Onanian
S o r n i
> Can one assume that at both Walmart and even Dick's Sporting Goods
> (I'm in NE too) the mechanics will not stress relieve wheels when
> preping the bike or are the wheels preped in the box?
Hell, I asked the head mechanic at the Trek Superstore where I bought my
Klein Q-Carbon Team if its Bontrager Race Lite wheels had been stress
relieved.
He gave me a blank look and said, "Are you having problems with the wheels?"
So I did it myself (amateurish as it was), and they've been trouble-free so
far.
Bill "it's all about the attitude, dude" S.
Jonesy
> On 24 May 2004 09:52:15 -0700, beelz...@hotmail.com (Jonesy) may
> have said:
> >... Call it $20.00, and some time at
> >the local library printing Mr. Brown's helpful pages. In addition, I
> >would guess that this KHS road bike would stand the test of time
> >better than the Fury.
>
> wholesaled in substantial numbers to the specialists who serve the
> low-income markets; thrift stores, for the most part.
I'm sure they do. I wonder what sort of percent of life is "ride" as
opposed to "hold down the garage floor."
[snip]
> >But more likely, the junk will end up where all junk ends up - my
> >basement, errr, the landfill.
>
> For a variety of reasons, I'll agree with part of that...but only
> part. In the backyard bikepile, there are at least a couple of
> still-serviceable Roadmaster-level (read: mass-market cheap)
> heavy-steel-frame bikes with low-performance components and lots of
> miles of usage.
I *would* agree that "free" is an acceptable price for those bikes. I
consider $60.00 to be too much. But then again, I have seen plenty of
those bikes that were NOT serviceable within a month of purchase,
dangerously suspended in my workstand while I tried to make them into
something workable.
> The point is that expectations and demands of riders vary, and it is
> perfectly possible for someone who rides often but not hard or
> abusively to get many thousands of miles out of a cheap Mall-Wart
> bike
From what I have seen of these bikes, I would say that the
*probability* of this is low. Possible? Sure.
> and for the rider whose limited goal is merely to have a bike
> present which will get them to the convenience store or some other
> nearby destination and little else, what need do they have for
> anything more than a cheap walgoose?
I think that's probably a fine niche for a Walgoose. I would not
expand it to "everyday commuter." Because of what I have seen and
heard about Walgeese in general.
> Carl's Roadmaster, with some
> minor maintenance of a reasonably trivial nature, will very likely
> outlast the casual user's need for a bike of any kind.
Casual maintenance to you or I might be arcane rituals to the casual
bike owner. And from what I have seen, lack of maintenance is what
causes these bike to become virtually unrideable.
> From where I
> sit, for the appropriate owner, that makes it a bargain.
I think that we have different values for "appropriate owner."
> Sure, the
> Goodwill bike for $25 total investment might be a better deal, but can
> you always rely on finding such a bargain when you need it? No.
I absolutely agree. BUT, one could get a $50 - $100 bike at an LBS
under almost any circumstance. Not a steal, but a better bargain than
a Walgoose. I was using these bikes as a counter-example, but my
major focus in this has been to steer folks to an LBS, such that they
could get a functional, durable bike at a reasonable price. It might
even keep a Walgoose out of the landfill. A worthy goal in and of
itself. :)
> Be all that as it may, I quite agree that many of the bikes sold at
> Wal-Mart, K-Mart, Target and their ilk are, for want of a more
> delicate term, crap by the standards of the demanding bike enthusiast
We disagree again. I think they are crap by most every standard,
except maybe the "very occasional convenience
store/round-the-block-with-the-kids" user. I do not think those bikes
meet the demand of even a lukewarm bike owner-wannabe. And I really
do not think they are the stuff commuter bikes are made of, even on a
four-mile round trip basis. They might suffice for that purpose, but
I'd hardly call them bargain commuter bikes.
> There are, however, a lot more people
> in the world besides the demanding bike enthusiasts, many of whose
> expectations and requirements are far less stringent, and it is wrong
> to unqualifiedly disparage the product that is appropriate for *them*
> merely because it does not serve the needs of every cyclist.
We agree again. I think our values for "appropriate" differ.
> Rider
> requirements vary. Yes, it's a damn shame when someone who needed a
> better bike buys a Walgoose and gets discouraged because it just
> doesn't do what they wanted to do, but it's every bit as much of a
> shame when someone abandons the idea of buying a bike at all because
> they've been told that they should avoid the Wal-Mart bikes like the
> plague...and they can't afford anything at the LBS.
That's just the thing - 'round these parts, used bikes at the LBS go
for $50-$100 for decent road or mountain bikes. They aren't the
greatest thing ever, but they will be durable and reliable, and
probably made of better materials. In addition, they have been
inspected and adjusted by someone who actually does bike stuff for a
living, rather than stacking boxes for a living, but turning a Cresent
wrench in his uncompensated required overtime. Bottom line: If you
can afford a Walgoose, you can afford an LBS bike.
Wins: Better bike, built by professionals, fit as well as one can by
someone with knowledge, priced like a Walgoose, helps keep LBS open.
Losses: Not new, might not appear as flashy.
These were my points prior to Carl's Fury-ous purchase, and I don't
see how they have become less valid over the passage of time. I fear
that you and I have different parameters for what constitutes an
"appropriate user for a Walgoose."
--
Jonesy
SMMB
news:73da2590.0405...@posting.google.com...
> These were my points prior to Carl's Fury-ous purchase, and I don't
> see how they have become less valid over the passage of time. I fear
> that you and I have different parameters for what constitutes an
> "appropriate user for a Walgoose."
> --
> Jonesy
These are the comments of a self-serving snob.
--
Bonne route,
Sandy
Paris FR
Pat
> > These were my points prior to Carl's Fury-ous purchase, and I don't
> > see how they have become less valid over the passage of time. I fear
> > that you and I have different parameters for what constitutes an
> > "appropriate user for a Walgoose."
> > --
> > Jonesy
> These are the comments of a self-serving snob.
> --
> Bonne route,
>
> Sandy
I don't understand. Are you saying that what you wrote is from a
self-serving snob?
Pat in TX
bicyclette
>
> I think the safest approach is that this step should not be assumed to
> have been taken. It's not hard to do it, and it doesn't take long,
> and best of all, as far as i can see, there's no hazard in
> accidentally doing it twice.
>
Is there a reference on how to massage the spokes and tension them
afterwards?
Jonesy
LOL. THose were the comments of someone with noting useful to add.
Hey, isn't it time for you to surrender to somebody?
--
Jonesy