Crazy eBay offers

Tom Kunich

nepřečteno,

7. 4. 2021 15:34:0307.04.21

komu:

It isn't as if I am overcharging for my bikes on eBay. And boxing and sending them is a definite pain in the butt and now VERY EXPENSIVE. Especially compared to just a couple of years ago. Offers are mostly less than FRAMESETS are selling for on a Di2 equipped bike. To send a bike by ground transportation from Oakland to Washington DC is $400 with packing and shipping. This is WITHOUT insurance. Not to mention that absolute pain-in-the ass of having to move around a package that side by yourself. Yeah, it only weighs 26 lbs. but it is 56" long and 36" tall and 7" wide. I can just barely get it in the trunk of my car leaving the trunk lid open. Dumbass eBay wouldn't print the label for UPS on my last bike so I had to do everything myself. I wasted half a tank of gas doing everything this way. With a label I could have had it picked up at the dealer that packed the bike.

Frank Krygowski

nepřečteno,

7. 4. 2021 21:07:2007.04.21

komu:

On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 3:34:03 PM UTC-4, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> It isn't as if I am overcharging for my bikes on eBay. And boxing and sending them is a definite pain in the butt and now VERY EXPENSIVE. Especially compared to just a couple of years ago. Offers are mostly less than FRAMESETS are selling for on a Di2 equipped bike. To send a bike by ground transportation from Oakland to Washington DC is $400 with packing and shipping. This is WITHOUT insurance. Not to mention that absolute pain-in-the ass of having to move around a package that side by yourself. Yeah, it only weighs 26 lbs. but it is 56" long and 36" tall and 7" wide. I can just barely get it in the trunk of my car leaving the trunk lid open. Dumbass eBay wouldn't print the label for UPS on my last bike so I had to do everything myself. I wasted half a tank of gas doing everything this way. With a label I could have had it picked up at the dealer that packed the bike.

So why are you doing this??

- Frank Krygowski

Ralph Barone

nepřečteno,

7. 4. 2021 21:10:4807.04.21

komu:

He’s making it up in volume???

sms

nepřečteno,

7. 4. 2021 23:26:1807.04.21

komu:

On 4/7/2021 6:10 PM, Ralph Barone wrote:
> Frank Krygowski <frkr...@gmail.com> wrote:

<snip>

> He’s making it up in volume???

A lot of people have inflated ideas about how much their used stuff
should sell for. I've seen some absurd used bicycle prices on craigslist
and Nextdoor. The sellers get annoyed when no one is willing to pay
their prices.

Some classic or specialty bicycles do fetch high prices. Old mixte-frame
bikes and Bromptons sell really well at high prices. When Burley
discontinued the Piccolo the used prices soared, then they brought it
back and used prices fell.

ritzann...@gmail.com

nepřečteno,

8. 4. 2021 8:14:4108.04.21

komu:

On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 2:34:03 PM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> To send a bike by ground transportation from Oakland to Washington DC is $400 with packing and shipping. This is WITHOUT insurance.

My shipping experience is limited to a very few times at the local UPS office and the US Post Office. And the prices always seem high for small boxes. I'm guessing shipping costs are one reason Craig's List local sales saw growth in the past decade, at the expense of eBay. I have some specialized items I have considered selling. But maybe I am lucky in that they are a name brand item with dedicated sales forums on the internet. Shipping, local delivery may work out differently than with very large bicycle boxes sent across the USA.

ritzann...@gmail.com

nepřečteno,

8. 4. 2021 8:19:0508.04.21

komu:

On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 10:26:18 PM UTC-5, sms wrote:
> On 4/7/2021 6:10 PM, Ralph Barone wrote:
> > Frank Krygowski <frkr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> <snip>
> > He’s making it up in volume???
> A lot of people have inflated ideas about how much their used stuff
> should sell for.

Ain't that the truth!

Which is one reason everyone loves farm auctions. Where a lifetime of possessions of an old farmer are sold off on a Saturday out in the country no matter what the weather. Rain, snow, cold, heat, wind, doesn't matter. The auction must go on. Some times, many times, you can get great bargains. Or spend way too much for junk you don't need. Which will then be sold at your auction.

Tom Kunich

nepřečteno,

8. 4. 2021 8:27:0708.04.21

komu:

I'm doing it so that other people not as stupid as you can have a bike that they are proud of. One would think that as a supposed mechanical engineer that such things would be obvious to you. But as we can see from everyone of your postings, you are afraid of advanced technology and probably are still using downtube shifter.

Tom Kunich

nepřečteno,

8. 4. 2021 8:35:2908.04.21

komu:

The San Francisco bay area runs from Santa Rosa to Gilroy and from the Peninsula to Livermore This is about a quarter of the costal area of California. I can advertise my stuff for the exact same prices and eventually it will sell and people might drive from Sacramento or Modesto to get it. So it isn't as if I overprice my stuff. Only someone like sms could say such things. And you will notice that the types of bikes he is interested in he says are worth the prices they are asking. This is a pretty clear indication of why he lost his political office.

I listed my Emonda on eBay two days ago and I've already had two offers on it.

AMuzi

nepřečteno,

8. 4. 2021 8:39:4708.04.21

komu:

Mr Kunich's large frame size puts his cartons over 130
inches which bear an 'oversize' surcharge. Freight (and
postage) rates are climbing rapidly, but his is a special
case beyond that.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Tom Kunich

nepřečteno,

8. 4. 2021 8:50:4908.04.21

komu:

Thank you Andrew. The actual shipping would be $156 but the surcharge for the package size was an additional $174 and some change. The bike shop was sort of shocked when I told them about it since that same package costs them $70 from the factory.

Frank Krygowski

nepřečteno,

8. 4. 2021 11:28:3008.04.21

komu:

Since he seems to be buying these frames and bikes for reselling instead
of riding, perhaps he should buy smaller ones.

--
- Frank Krygowski

News 2021

nepřečteno,

8. 4. 2021 17:50:1708.04.21

komu:

On Thu, 08 Apr 2021 05:19:02 -0700, russell...@yahoo.com scribed:

> On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 10:26:18 PM UTC-5, sms wrote:
>> On 4/7/2021 6:10 PM, Ralph Barone wrote:
>> > Frank Krygowski <frkr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> <snip>
>> > He’s making it up in volume???
>> A lot of people have inflated ideas about how much their used stuff
>> should sell for.
>
> Ain't that the truth!
>
> Which is one reason everyone loves farm auctions.

Only those who have ever been to one.

> Where a lifetime of
> possessions of an old farmer are sold off on a Saturday out in the
> country no matter what the weather. Rain, snow, cold, heat, wind,
> doesn't matter. The auction must go on. Some times, many times, you
> can get great bargains. Or spend way too much for junk you don't need.
> Which will then be sold at your auction.

There are no end of 'flippers' who think they can buy something cheap and
sell it for a fortune. Then there are the 'parter outers' who buy it to
sell parts at outlandish prices. And do not even think about picking up
some tools, these also suffer from 'collectors' and 'artists'.

News 2021

nepřečteno,

8. 4. 2021 17:52:3108.04.21

komu:

On Thu, 08 Apr 2021 05:27:05 -0700, Tom Kunich scribed:

Pure bullshit silly little tommy.
the average punter would be far better to buy a down-shifter than some
complex piece of modern fashion.

Jeff Liebermann

nepřečteno,

8. 4. 2021 17:59:1308.04.21

komu:

On Thu, 8 Apr 2021 05:35:27 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:

>I listed my Emonda on eBay two days ago and I've already had two offers on it.

I'm disappointed. You post a blow by blow account of your trials and
tribulations preparing an unknown quantity of bicycles for sale and
you fail to post a photo or eBay page? After a dozen articles
discussing the relative merits of different bottom bracket threads and
receiving expert advice on exactly how you screwed up, I would have
expected a photo and description of the final result. At a minimum,
you should be proud to display the results of your skill and efforts.
Instead, you require those who had assisted to laboriously dig through
the eBay listings to find a photo and description. Aren't you proud
of your work? Don't you want others to see your handiwork? If so,
why are you don't your best to hide the listing? Or, are we just
pawns in your game of chess interested only in maximizing your
profits? What are you hiding?

--
Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Jeff Liebermann

nepřečteno,

8. 4. 2021 18:11:0908.04.21

komu:

On Thu, 08 Apr 2021 14:59:04 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>
wrote:

>On Thu, 8 Apr 2021 05:35:27 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
><cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>I listed my Emonda on eBay two days ago and I've already had two offers on it.
>
>I'm disappointed. You post a blow by blow account of your trials and
>tribulations preparing an unknown quantity of bicycles for sale and
>you fail to post a photo or eBay page? After a dozen articles
>discussing the relative merits of different bottom bracket threads and
>receiving expert advice on exactly how you screwed up, I would have
>expected a photo and description of the final result. At a minimum,
>you should be proud to display the results of your skill and efforts.
>Instead, you require those who had assisted to laboriously dig through
>the eBay listings to find a photo and description. Aren't you proud
>of your work? Don't you want others to see your handiwork? If so,
>why are you don't your best to hide the listing? Or, are we just
>pawns in your game of chess interested only in maximizing your
>profits? What are you hiding?

It was a difficult 5 minute search, but I think I found it. Is it
this one?

"Trek Emonda 60 cm Ultegra Di2"
<https://www.ebay.com/itm/Trek-Emonda-60-cm-Ultegra-Di2/294106726321>
$3,500 + $150 shipping.

Jeff Liebermann

nepřečteno,

8. 4. 2021 18:26:1508.04.21

komu:

On Thu, 8 Apr 2021 05:27:05 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:

> But as we can see from everyone of your postings, you are
> afraid of advanced technology and probably are still using
> downtube shifter.

1. Who is this "we"? Is there more than one of you or is this the
"majestic plural"?
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_we>

2. I like my downtube shifters (1984 Miyata 610):
<http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/pics/bicycles/Miyata-610.JPG>
(Sorry about the rusted chain).
Soon, everyone will be using wireless downtube shifters:
"SRAM Introduces the eTap DT87 Wireless Downtube Shifters"
<https://biketoday.news/article/sram-introduces-the-etap-dt87-wireless-downtube-shifters>

Tom Kunich

nepřečteno,

8. 4. 2021 18:26:4308.04.21

komu:

On Thursday, April 8, 2021 at 3:11:09 PM UTC-7, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thu, 08 Apr 2021 14:59:04 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>
> wrote:
> >On Thu, 8 Apr 2021 05:35:27 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
> ><cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >>I listed my Emonda on eBay two days ago and I've already had two offers on it.
> >
> >I'm disappointed. You post a blow by blow account of your trials and
> >tribulations preparing an unknown quantity of bicycles for sale and
> >you fail to post a photo or eBay page? After a dozen articles
> >discussing the relative merits of different bottom bracket threads and
> >receiving expert advice on exactly how you screwed up, I would have
> >expected a photo and description of the final result. At a minimum,
> >you should be proud to display the results of your skill and efforts.
> >Instead, you require those who had assisted to laboriously dig through
> >the eBay listings to find a photo and description. Aren't you proud
> >of your work? Don't you want others to see your handiwork? If so,
> >why are you don't your best to hide the listing? Or, are we just
> >pawns in your game of chess interested only in maximizing your
> >profits? What are you hiding?
> It was a difficult 5 minute search, but I think I found it. Is it
> this one?
>
> "Trek Emonda 60 cm Ultegra Di2"
> <https://www.ebay.com/itm/Trek-Emonda-60-cm-Ultegra-Di2/294106726321>
> $3,500 + $150 shipping.

Did you find that Emonda the same size with Ultegra manual shifting parts on it for twice that price? No, I didn't think that you would mention it if you had.

sms

nepřečteno,

8. 4. 2021 18:51:4708.04.21

komu:

On 4/8/2021 3:11 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

<snip>

> It was a difficult 5 minute search, but I think I found it. Is it
> this one?
>
> "Trek Emonda 60 cm Ultegra Di2"
> <https://www.ebay.com/itm/Trek-Emonda-60-cm-Ultegra-Di2/294106726321>
> $3,500 + $150 shipping.

There were several different Emonda variants in 2018. At $3500 for a
used one with no warranty presumably it's the Émonda SLR ($6500 new),
but the listing doesn't say.

A rule of thumb for used bicycles in person to person sales isthat it's
worth 60% of the new MSRP at the time (if the used bike is in pristine
condition) and upgrades do not improve the value. So $6500 * 0.60 =
$3900, so $3650 is not unreasonable considering the cosmetic damage that
is noted. But if it's a lower-end model then the price is high.

Jeff Liebermann

nepřečteno,

8. 4. 2021 18:54:0608.04.21

komu:

Is that the correct listing? We want to know.

Sorting the available Emonda bicycles by price:
<https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=emonda>
We find that there are 24 out of 53 bicycles selling for less than
your $3,500 asking price. There are two machines offered for $10,000
each. One is also asking $1,000 for shipping:
<https://www.ebay.com/itm/164545474696>
We suggest you raise your asking price.

Tom Kunich

nepřečteno,

8. 4. 2021 19:06:5008.04.21

komu:

Perhaps you could present to us any sort of information that you are any sort of an expert concerning about the prices of anything new or used? Where did you get your license to identify condition and value? You must have an ego the size of the White House and a mind with similar values.

Unlike you or this dumbshit Jeff, i don't brag, what I say I did, I did. The numbers of lives that were saved because of my work, if anything is greatly understated.

sms

nepřečteno,

8. 4. 2021 19:16:1408.04.21

komu:

On 4/8/2021 3:53 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

<snip>

> Is that the correct listing? We want to know.
>
> Sorting the available Emonda bicycles by price:
> <https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=emonda>
> We find that there are 24 out of 53 bicycles selling for less than
> your $3,500 asking price. There are two machines offered for $10,000
> each. One is also asking $1,000 for shipping:
> <https://www.ebay.com/itm/164545474696>
> We suggest you raise your asking price.

The other listings are more specific as to which Emonda model that is
being offered. If I were a buyer I would expect that when the sub-model
isn't specified that it's the lowest-end model. If this is not the case
then he should modify his listing to be more specific so buyers know
what they're getting.

Tom Kunich

nepřečteno,

8. 4. 2021 19:16:3408.04.21

komu:

Jeff Liebermann

nepřečteno,

8. 4. 2021 19:30:5608.04.21

komu:

On Thu, 8 Apr 2021 15:51:37 -0700, sms <scharf...@geemail.com>
wrote:

>On 4/8/2021 3:11 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>
><snip>
>
>> It was a difficult 5 minute search, but I think I found it. Is it
>> this one?
>>
>> "Trek Emonda 60 cm Ultegra Di2"
>> <https://www.ebay.com/itm/Trek-Emonda-60-cm-Ultegra-Di2/294106726321>
>> $3,500 + $150 shipping.
>
>There were several different Emonda variants in 2018. At $3500 for a
>used one with no warranty presumably it's the Émonda SLR ($6500 new),
>but the listing doesn't say.

"New 2018 Trek Emonda SLR & SL - Ten Things to Know"
<https://www.bikeexchange.com/blog/trek-emonda-2018-ten-things-to-know>
Item #10 is a chart of various 2018 Emonda models and associated MSRP.

Model US MSRP
Émonda SLR 9 $11,000
Émonda SLR 8 Disc $7,000
Émonda SLR 8 $6,500
Émonda SLR 6 Disc $5,500
Émonda SLR 6 $5,000
Émonda SL 7 $4,500
Émonda SL 6 Disc $2,999
Émonda SL 6 Pro TBD
Émonda SL 6 $2,500
Émonda SL 5 $2,000
Émonda SL 5 Women's $2,000

I can't tell if it's a 5, 6, 7, 8, or 9 model.

>A rule of thumb for used bicycles in person to person sales isthat it's
>worth 60% of the new MSRP at the time (if the used bike is in pristine
>condition) and upgrades do not improve the value. So $6500 * 0.60 =
>$3900, so $3650 is not unreasonable considering the cosmetic damage that
>is noted. But if it's a lower-end model then the price is high.

I would think that the Di2 shifters would add quite a bit to the
value.

Tom Kunich

nepřečteno,

8. 4. 2021 19:44:5508.04.21

komu:

I will ask you again, why didn't you cite those 11 others that I cited that were asking as much or a whole lot more than me and ONE OF THEM WAS NOTHING BUT A FRAMESET. So tell us that you are so much of an authority that you know that the "bike exchange" is the slightest authority? That sounds an awful lot like Frank saying that I didn't get hit in the head with a tree branch because he could find a dateless picture of the area on Google Earth.

One of the real problems with you is that whatever your medical problems are they have stopped your entire mind from having the ability to work.

ALWAYS REMEMBER, IF IT IS ON THE INTERNET IT IS NOTHNG BUT THE TRUTH!!!.

What a mindless fool.

Jeff Liebermann

nepřečteno,

8. 4. 2021 20:34:3508.04.21

komu:

On Thu, 8 Apr 2021 16:16:33 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:

>Why didn't you show this?

>There are pages and pages more.
>Why didn't you mention them?

Because I can't compare them with your listing without knowing the
exact model number of your Trek.

>Everyone of these is asking my price of more. Some, a LOT more.
>But when you can hide that you will won't you?

Hide what from whom? Every buyer does comparison shopping with
similarly priced bicycles, but lower and higher. I only provide YOUR
asking price. How would including 11 other listings and prices made
any difference? Were you expecting 11 other higher prices to make
your bicycle look like a bargain? No prospective buyer with that kind
of money to spend is going to be that stupid.

jbeattie

nepřečteno,

8. 4. 2021 21:01:1108.04.21

komu:

On Thursday, April 8, 2021 at 3:51:47 PM UTC-7, sms wrote:

> On 4/8/2021 3:11 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>
> <snip>
> > It was a difficult 5 minute search, but I think I found it. Is it
> > this one?
> >
> > "Trek Emonda 60 cm Ultegra Di2"
> > <https://www.ebay.com/itm/Trek-Emonda-60-cm-Ultegra-Di2/294106726321>
> > $3,500 + $150 shipping.
> There were several different Emonda variants in 2018. At $3500 for a
> used one with no warranty presumably it's the Émonda SLR ($6500 new),
> but the listing doesn't say.

Nope, Tom's bike is just an SL6 with UDi2 instead of the OE Ultegra cable. It was not built for Di2. It does have nice Ultegra brakes rather than the OE Bontrager brakes. It has a bunch of sketchy Chi-carbon stuff. The closest current bike would be an SL7, but that bike is made for electronic and has discs and other things going for it. The carbon has also changed, IIRC. Tom's bike is $600 -1,000 overpriced -- plus I thought he had sold it. No?

-- Jay Beattie.

News 2021

nepřečteno,

8. 4. 2021 21:18:5208.04.21

komu:

On Thu, 08 Apr 2021 15:51:37 -0700, sms scribed:

> On 4/8/2021 3:11 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>> It was a difficult 5 minute search, but I think I found it. Is it this
>> one?
>>
>> "Trek Emonda 60 cm Ultegra Di2"
>> <https://www.ebay.com/itm/Trek-Emonda-60-cm-Ultegra-Di2/294106726321>
>> $3,500 + $150 shipping.
>
> There were several different Emonda variants in 2018. At $3500 for a
> used one with no warranty presumably it's the Émonda SLR ($6500 new),
> but the listing doesn't say.
>
> A rule of thumb for used bicycles in person to person sales isthat it's
> worth 60% of the new MSRP at the time (if the used bike is in pristine
> condition) and upgrades do not improve the value.

Pfillel, I'll go with the 60%, but 'upgrades' are worth zilch, unless the
buyer really, rally wants that upgrade. Remember an 'upgrade' takes
something away before t put something back and it may not be 'extra'.

News 2021

nepřečteno,

8. 4. 2021 21:20:5008.04.21

komu:

On Thu, 08 Apr 2021 16:30:48 -0700, Jeff Liebermann scribed:

> I would think that the Di2 shifters would add quite a bit to the value.

Only to a clueless buyer. Mixed Di2 parts should be a clanging bell to
look elsewhere.

sms

nepřečteno,

8. 4. 2021 21:25:4908.04.21

komu:

Well the SL6 without Di2 had an MSRP of $2500. Trying to get $3650, even
with the Di2 added, would be a real stretch, he'd have to luck out and
find an extremely clueless buyer.

Figure 60% of ($2500 + $1200). If he can get $2400, including shipping,
he should take it and run, but I suspect that $2000-2200 would be about
the best he could do.

Jeff Liebermann

nepřečteno,

8. 4. 2021 21:26:0908.04.21

komu:

On Thu, 8 Apr 2021 18:01:08 -0700 (PDT), jbeattie <jbeat...@msn.com>
wrote:

> Tom's bike is $600 -1,000 overpriced -- plus I thought he had sold it. No?
>-- Jay Beattie.

No. It was previously listed on Craigslist, but didn't sell.
<https://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/bik/d/san-leandro-2018-trek-emonda-sl6-with/7284847343.html>
"This posting has been deleted by its author."

Tom Kunich

nepřečteno,

8. 4. 2021 22:22:3508.04.21

komu:

If this bike wasn't made for Di2, why does it have all of the ports for Di2 and none of the cable mounts for manual shifting?

Tom Kunich

nepřečteno,

8. 4. 2021 22:25:4308.04.21

komu:

On Thursday, April 8, 2021 at 6:01:11 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:

I sold the 2004 Madone with manual shifting for what these people think the 2018 Emonda is worth. Someone certainly is clueless and it isn't the people with money. It is the jackasses that couldn't afford a decent burial.

Tom Kunich

nepřečteno,

8. 4. 2021 22:31:0408.04.21

komu:

On Thursday, April 8, 2021 at 6:25:49 PM UTC-7, sms wrote:
>
> Well the SL6 without Di2 had an MSRP of $2500. Trying to get $3650, even
> with the Di2 added, would be a real stretch, he'd have to luck out and
> find an extremely clueless buyer.
>
> Figure 60% of ($2500 + $1200). If he can get $2400, including shipping,
> he should take it and run, but I suspect that $2000-2200 would be about
> the best he could do.

Looks to me like you're trying to talk me down on my price. Too bad that I've already had two offers and turned them down. That was in the first day. Maybe you can explain why you think that my stuff is worthless, but 11 other cited bikes that are like mine or less, are priced as high or higher than mine? One of them is even a frameset. I've always wondered. What's it like to be a politician who can't get elected and have people make gagging sounds when they see you?

Tom Kunich

nepřečteno,

8. 4. 2021 22:35:3808.04.21

komu:

On Thursday, April 8, 2021 at 6:26:09 PM UTC-7, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thu, 8 Apr 2021 18:01:08 -0700 (PDT), jbeattie <jbeat...@msn.com>
> wrote:
> > Tom's bike is $600 -1,000 overpriced -- plus I thought he had sold it. No?
> >-- Jay Beattie.
> No. It was previously listed on Craigslist, but didn't sell.
> <https://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/bik/d/san-leandro-2018-trek-emonda-sl6-with/7284847343.html>
> "This posting has been deleted by its author."

More words of wisdom from someone who has a Schwinn Corvette to ride.

sms

nepřečteno,

9. 4. 2021 10:35:4409.04.21

komu:

On 4/8/2021 6:26 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Thu, 8 Apr 2021 18:01:08 -0700 (PDT), jbeattie <jbeat...@msn.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Tom's bike is $600 -1,000 overpriced -- plus I thought he had sold it. No?
>> -- Jay Beattie.
>
> No. It was previously listed on Craigslist, but didn't sell.
> <https://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/bik/d/san-leandro-2018-trek-emonda-sl6-with/7284847343.html>
> "This posting has been deleted by its author."

Tom might find someone clueless enough to be willing to significantly
overpay for a used bicycle with no warranty, it only takes one person,
looking for that particular bicycle in that particular size, and that
isn't aware of the Di2 kludge.

However given the relatively large number of listings for similar bikes,
listings that actually include _which_ Emonda model is being offered for
sale, it's likely that he'll have to settle for at least $1000 less than
what he's asking. I wonder why the craigslist listing included the
Emonda model but not the eBay listing. Maybe he was hoping that with the
high asking price that someone would just automatically believe that it
was a higher-end model.

Remember the W.C. Fields' quote: "It's morally wrong to allow a sucker
to keep his money."

This reminds me of car shopping at a Toyota dealer with my daughter. The
2 year old car, of the same model, would be priced higher than the new
price of the same model that you could get through a car-buying service
such as from Costco, without any haggling at all.

I asked the salesperson why anyone would buy the used car for more money
and he said "enough people aren't aware of how much the new cars sell
for so they think that they're getting a good deal on a used car." At
least he was honest! Also, with the new car you get the full warranty as
well as scheduled maintenance for two years. I still have the
spreadsheet I did in 2017, the MSRP was $20,044, the invoice was
$18,557, the price, without any haggling, was $14,426, and there was
another $750 cash back (new college graduate rebate) for a total of
$13,676. The 2015 and 2016 used cars of the same model were priced
between $16,500 and $17,500 (at least those were the asking prices). I
think there's a good reason why many car dealers now operate separate
lots for their new car and used car businesses!

jbeattie

nepřečteno,

9. 4. 2021 10:49:5509.04.21

komu:

The 2018 SL6 was not spec'd with Di2. You have a covers over a cable port. This was the Di2 bike of 2018: https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/bikes/road-bikes/performance-road-bikes/%C3%A9monda/%C3%A9monda-sl/%C3%A9monda-sl-7/p/22092/ You can fit Di2 on the SL6, but it was not sold as a Di2 bike.

-- Jay Beattie.

sms

nepřečteno,

9. 4. 2021 10:50:1009.04.21

komu:

Well of course the listing doesn't mention the Di2 kludge, it just says
Di2. Whatever. Maybe he'll find a clueless buyer. But buyers of
multi-thousand dollar bicycles may be smarter than he believes, plus
there are a lot of other listings on eBay that are more transparent. I
wonder how much a Trek dealer charges for a used Emonda of the same model.

sms

nepřečteno,

9. 4. 2021 10:56:5609.04.21

komu:

Uh, isn't that what I said "upgrades do not improve the value." Well
unless you find a buyer that really wanted that particular upgrade and
would have done it themselves anyway.

When the 105 brakeset failed on my road bike I "upgraded" it to Ultegra,
but only because the LBS had a better price on an Ultegra set that they
had taken off of a new bike where the owner wanted the higher level
(Dura-Ace?). But I'm sure that this "upgrade" didn't increase the value
of the bike should I ever decide to sell it.

Tom Kunich

nepřečteno,

9. 4. 2021 11:27:3009.04.21

komu:

Jay, I have no idea what you believe. There are exactly the same Di2 covers on both sides of the SL6. Only the right side is used to route the Di2. There is NO WAY to use that other port to route manual shifters. Since we cannot post photos here I cannot show you. What would make you believe that I would put Di2 on a bike that wasn't set up for it in a bike of that grade?

There is NO way to cut those ports and add the threaded covers. The openings are not large enough for a manual shift cable outer. There is virtually no difference in the Emonda from its inception until the SMALL changes for 2021 - the T47 bottom bracket and the so-called aero stem assembly designed specifically to use that bar end charge controller and route the cables through the head tube instead of the side of the down tube. Of course the 2021 "wireless" Di2 makes that route unnecessary and the controller is built into the battery now.

What I'm thinking is that there were Di2 models for ALL of the Emonda's regardless of what SL6, 7 or 8 is supposed to mean.

I have built "external" Di2 bikes but only bikes that were specialized. The Redline CX bike and my Lemond Zurich which was built long before the idea of Di2. And I intend to remove and sell the Dura Ace Di2 off of the Lemond and return to Campy 10. Having to continuously shift everything is really mentally tiring and my ride on my Eddy yesterday was a revelation. Really, I would return to 9 speed if I could. But the parts are killer expensive.

Tom Kunich

nepřečteno,

9. 4. 2021 12:10:2409.04.21

komu:

I noticed that some mind dead idiot said that I deleted my Emonda Posting off of Craigslist SF Bay Area because they are too stupid to use Craigslist so I added pictures of the OE Di2 ports so that Jay can tell me how they were never designed to be used with Di2. https://post.craigslist.org/manage/7302075072?action=display&go=display

sms

nepřečteno,

9. 4. 2021 12:51:5209.04.21

komu:

On 4/8/2021 6:01 PM, jbeattie wrote:

<snip>

> Nope, Tom's bike is just an SL6 with UDi2 instead of the OE Ultegra cable. It was not built for Di2.

Okay, I see the SL6 in the photos. But even though it wasn't build for
Di2 since they use the same frame on the Di2 and non-Di2 models changing
to Di2 would not be difficult.

> It does have nice Ultegra brakes rather than the OE Bontrager brakes. It has a bunch of sketchy Chi-carbon stuff.

Yeah, but that doesn't show up in the listing!

> The closest current bike would be an SL7, but that bike is made for electronic and has discs and other things going for it. The carbon has also changed, IIRC. Tom's bike is $600 -1,000 overpriced -- plus I thought he had sold it. No?

Well obviously it hasn't sold on eBay or craigslist at the current
price, and the offers he received were not acceptable to him. He could
re-list it on eBay as an auction item with a reserve amount set to the
minimum he would accept. He could probably get $2200-2500 for it, but
he'll have to find this out for himself.

The best option to sell high-end bicycles is to someone you know or
someone in your bike club. They are willing to pay more since they can
inspect the item prior to purchase.

jbeattie

nepřečteno,

9. 4. 2021 12:52:5509.04.21

komu:

On Friday, April 9, 2021 at 8:27:30 AM UTC-7, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Friday, April 9, 2021 at 7:49:55 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
> > On Thursday, April 8, 2021 at 7:22:35 PM UTC-7, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Thursday, April 8, 2021 at 6:01:11 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
> > > > On Thursday, April 8, 2021 at 3:51:47 PM UTC-7, sms wrote:
> > > > > On 4/8/2021 3:11 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > <snip>
> > > > > > It was a difficult 5 minute search, but I think I found it. Is it
> > > > > > this one?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "Trek Emonda 60 cm Ultegra Di2"
> > > > > > <https://www.ebay.com/itm/Trek-Emonda-60-cm-Ultegra-Di2/294106726321>
> > > > > > $3,500 + $150 shipping.
> > > > > There were several different Emonda variants in 2018. At $3500 for a
> > > > > used one with no warranty presumably it's the Émonda SLR ($6500 new),
> > > > > but the listing doesn't say.
> > > > Nope, Tom's bike is just an SL6 with UDi2 instead of the OE Ultegra cable. It was not built for Di2. It does have nice Ultegra brakes rather than the OE Bontrager brakes. It has a bunch of sketchy Chi-carbon stuff. The closest current bike would be an SL7, but that bike is made for electronic and has discs and other things going for it. The carbon has also changed, IIRC. Tom's bike is $600 -1,000 overpriced -- plus I thought he had sold it. No?
> > > >
> > > > -- Jay Beattie.
> > > If this bike wasn't made for Di2, why does it have all of the ports for Di2 and none of the cable mounts for manual shifting?
> > The 2018 SL6 was not spec'd with Di2. You have a covers over a cable port. This was the Di2 bike of 2018: https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/bikes/road-bikes/performance-road-bikes/%C3%A9monda/%C3%A9monda-sl/%C3%A9monda-sl-7/p/22092/ You can fit Di2 on the SL6, but it was not sold as a Di2 bike.
> >
> > -- Jay Beattie.
> Jay, I have no idea what you believe. There are exactly the same Di2 covers on both sides of the SL6. Only the right side is used to route the Di2. There is NO WAY to use that other port to route manual shifters. Since we cannot post photos here I cannot show you. What would make you believe that I would put Di2 on a bike that wasn't set up for it in a bike of that grade?

Uh, yes, you can post links to a photo sharing site, like Google Photo. I do it all the time, although you never look at links. That bike was built with cable ports. E.g. https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/equipment/cycling-components/bike-frame-parts/trek-internal-frame-cable-management/p/32066/?gclid=CjwKCAjw9r-DBhBxEiwA9qYUpfH64UfH73cxLqXFN55OxOG0LNlWO5Vg-312pg-ijClNNfb1Zs3tYBoCwtwQAvD_BwE

The bike is labeled as a SL6. There is no question about that. This is the bike. https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/bikes/road-bikes/performance-road-bikes/%C3%A9monda/%C3%A9monda-sl/%C3%A9monda-sl-6/p/21796/ Not location of cable port. Someone put a cover over it on the left side. https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/equipment/cycling-components/bike-frame-parts/trek-control-freak-downtube-blank-plug/p/13864/?colorCode=black -- that assumes the hole has a blank in it. It's hard to tell from the photo.

Watch this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ugvd58YbkzA&ab_channel=HeWhoRides

> There is NO way to cut those ports and add the threaded covers. The openings are not large enough for a manual shift cable outer. There is virtually no difference in the Emonda from its inception until the SMALL changes for 2021 - the T47 bottom bracket and the so-called aero stem assembly designed specifically to use that bar end charge controller and route the cables through the head tube instead of the side of the down tube. Of course the 2021 "wireless" Di2 makes that route unnecessary and the controller is built into the battery now.
>
> What I'm thinking is that there were Di2 models for ALL of the Emonda's regardless of what SL6, 7 or 8 is supposed to mean.

You're thinking wrong. The Di2 bike was a SL7. SL6 had cables. You must have bought port covers. Did you actually do the work on that bike?

This is not brain surgery. A SL6 is a specific bike. UDi2 would be an after-market upgrade. That' s not a bad thing, but it is an add-on.

-- Jay Beattie.

sms

nepřečteno,

9. 4. 2021 13:01:2109.04.21

komu:

On 4/8/2021 5:34 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

<snip>

> Hide what from whom? Every buyer does comparison shopping with
> similarly priced bicycles, but lower and higher. I only provide YOUR
> asking price. How would including 11 other listings and prices made
> any difference? Were you expecting 11 other higher prices to make
> your bicycle look like a bargain? No prospective buyer with that kind
> of money to spend is going to be that stupid.

He only needs one clueless buyer and if he's patient he might find one.

The problem with listing something at a very high price, and then
accepting offers below the asking price, is that many prospcctive buyers
will not bother to make an offer at all, assuming that the seller has
unrealistic expectations of the item's value. It's why many real estate
agents prefer to list homes at below the market value and have a bidding
war rather than pricing it above market value and have buyers ignore the
listing completely.

Tom might be better off listing the bicycle as an auction item with a
reserve set to his minimum acceptable price which should be somewhere
around $2200-2500.

jbeattie

nepřečteno,

9. 4. 2021 13:03:5709.04.21

komu:

On Friday, April 9, 2021 at 9:51:52 AM UTC-7, sms wrote:
> On 4/8/2021 6:01 PM, jbeattie wrote:
> <snip>
> > Nope, Tom's bike is just an SL6 with UDi2 instead of the OE Ultegra cable. It was not built for Di2.
> Okay, I see the SL6 in the photos. But even though it wasn't build for
> Di2 since they use the same frame on the Di2 and non-Di2 models changing
> to Di2 would not be difficult.

Yes, although the wire port was different on the SL7. Having cable compatibility is a good thing, and I actually prefer frames that can go either way. But other buyers are different and don't want plugs or blanks in the holes. I think it is a perfectly fine bike and like the Ultegra brakes which are much easier to work on than the OE Bontrager (which do stop nicely). I just think the bike is over-priced.

I own the SLR 6 Project One Race Shop bike that I got employee pricing from Trek. It has cable shifting, but the frame price is way higher. It's a great bike, but I got it new for way less than Tom's used bike. My son got an Emonda SL6 like Tom's without Di2 shop priced (he worked at a Trek dealer) for like $1600. For a used bike, employee or pro-deal pricing for the new bike is a good benchmark, IMO. I think top price for that bike is in the $2500 range -- maybe higher if someone is needy. We should place bets.

-- Jay Beattie.

Tom Kunich

nepřečteno,

9. 4. 2021 14:04:5309.04.21

komu:

Is there something wrong with you? the cables go through that port exactly like the SL7. Are you telling me that if you buy that port cover and install it on your bike that it is somehow preventing manual operation? There ARE NO cable stops on the underside of that bike. You could run inner cables but there is no protection on the underside for the cable runs for manual cable on that bike I haven't looked at an SL7 since those photos purposely do not show it, but I am sure that underside break in he tube is there. WHY would they make a new mold just to prevent people from using manual shifting on that bike? If you do not want to buy my bike that is perfectly OK with me but stop trying to use any possible argument that it isn't worth what I'm asking for it. That just makes you look stupid after the entire list I've shown of similar bikes asking at least as much as I am and in one case $1,000 for shipping. Remember when I said that FedEx was asking $1020 to ship my Madone to DC?

sms

nepřečteno,

9. 4. 2021 14:45:2109.04.21

komu:

On 4/9/2021 10:03 AM, jbeattie wrote:

<snip>

> I own the SLR 6 Project One Race Shop bike that I got employee pricing from Trek. It has cable shifting, but the frame price is way higher. It's a great bike, but I got it new for way less than Tom's used bike. My son got an Emonda SL6 like Tom's without Di2 shop priced (he worked at a Trek dealer) for like $1600. For a used bike, employee or pro-deal pricing for the new bike is a good benchmark, IMO. I think top price for that bike is in the $2500 range -- maybe higher if someone is needy. We should place bets.

Perhaps betting would be interesting, but based on his posting history
you'd be unlikely to get an honest answer as to how much it actually
sold for.

But you point out another problem, everyone seems to "know a guy" that
can get them special pricing on stuff. They may know a bike shop
employee. They may know someone at the corporate office. Or they wait
for a sale at a shop that is closing out last year's models at a
significant discount.

I've only bought one Trek bicycle in my life, in 1992 or 1993. The MSRP
was $1800. I paid $1100 at an end-of-the year sale. My local dealer
(Chain Reaction) had it for $1000 but was out of stock of my size and
couldn't get any more since it was being closed out. This bicycle still
sells used for around $500, 28 years later.

An individual selling a used bike, and basing their pricing on the
original MSRP of the bike, is competing against a shop that would rather
sell you last year's model at a significant discount, complete with a
lifetime frame warranty, and a limited warranty on the rest of the bike.
You might not care about a lifetime frame warranty on a steel or
aluminum framed bicycle (except Jay who seems to break a lot of frames),
but you'd care very much on a carbon framed bicycle.

Tom Kunich

nepřečteno,

9. 4. 2021 15:18:3309.04.21

komu:

So you bought a Trek 30 years ago and are now the world's greatest expert on Trek's. Leave it to you to demonstrate your IQ. I am saving your posts in case you EVER try to run for ANY sort of office.

Tom Kunich

nepřečteno,

9. 4. 2021 15:27:2209.04.21

komu:

Look Jay. Perhaps that bike originally had a manual group on it but IF it did there would be wear on the gel coat where the derailleur wires ran and there isn't. This means that either it was originally a Di2 or this is a brand new old stock frame. Pretending that putting a normal over-the-counter fitting in the cover proves something it pretty silly don't you think? The thing weighed so light when I pulled it out of the stand to look at it closely, I weighed it and it was 17.44 lbs. with a bottle mount on it. The BB90 pressed in perfectly and I could tell that because there was no resistance to pushing in the crank and it turned freely meaning there was no misalignment. I can tell the difference between Dura Ace shifting and the Ultegra but on other groups people say that they are the same thing, meaning they can't tell the difference. The only thing that the shop did was buy and install the proper length wires since I didn't know how to do that at that time.

Tom Kunich

nepřečteno,

9. 4. 2021 15:36:0509.04.21

komu:

After going to a Trek site I also discover that although mine bike is marked SL6 that it is an SLR. That means "rim brake" and it is designed to use Direct Mount brakes so there isn't any mistake. So why is at least part of that number wrong?

Jeff Liebermann

nepřečteno,

9. 4. 2021 15:51:3909.04.21

komu:

On Fri, 9 Apr 2021 09:10:22 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:

>I noticed that some mind dead idiot said that I deleted my Emonda Posting
>off of Craigslist SF Bay Area because they are too stupid to use Craigslist
>so I added pictures of the OE Di2 ports so that Jay can tell me how they
>were never designed to be used with Di2.
>https://post.craigslist.org/manage/7302075072?action=display&go=display

This mind dead idiot tried the link you posted and found that it wants
me to login to Craigslist. Of course your "old" listings would appear
if you logged in first. Try logging out and tell us what you see.
Otherwise, the public link to your Emonda at:
<https://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/bik/d/san-leandro-2018-trek-emonda-sl6-with/7284847343.html>
shows a message that you deleted the listing.

Let us know if you need help learning how Craigslist works and how to
post a photo on any of the major free photo album sites. We recommend
Flickr (free to 1000 photos):
<https://www.flickr.com>

I'll be out of service for a day or two while I recover from yet
another case of food poisoning from my own cooking. Time to destroy
the kitchen and sanitize or replace everything. You can tell us how
to do that after your next topic change.

jbeattie

nepřečteno,

9. 4. 2021 16:45:0209.04.21

komu:

NO, NO, NO. Your bike is not an SRL. SLR is a whole other frame. Different carbon lay-up and different cable arrangement -- lighter and way more expensive. https://www.sefiles.net/images/library/zoom/trek-emonda-slr-6-305211-14.jpg Look at the f***** label on your bike: SL6. This is not brain surgery. Do you not look at any of the links I posted (rhetorical question). Go back to the video I posted. That is your goddamned bike. WAKE UP!

-- Jay Beattie.

sms

nepřečteno,

9. 4. 2021 16:47:5509.04.21

komu:

On 4/9/2021 12:51 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

<snip>

> This mind dead idiot tried the link you posted and found that it wants
> me to login to Craigslist. Of course your "old" listings would appear
> if you logged in first. Try logging out and tell us what you see.
> Otherwise, the public link to your Emonda at:
> <https://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/bik/d/san-leandro-2018-trek-emonda-sl6-with/7284847343.html>
> shows a message that you deleted the listing.

LOL, I don't think he realizes that the links for viewing a craigslist
listing, and managing the listing, are very different.

> Let us know if you need help learning how Craigslist works and how to
> post a photo on any of the major free photo album sites. We recommend
> Flickr (free to 1000 photos):
> <https://www.flickr.com>

You can also create a sub-directory on Google Drive, and upload and
share photos.

> I'll be out of service for a day or two while I recover from yet
> another case of food poisoning from my own cooking. Time to destroy
> the kitchen and sanitize or replace everything. You can tell us how
> to do that after your next topic change.

You should fire that cook if he doesn't know how to safely cook stuff.

You and Jay arguing with posters like Tom reminds me of the alleged Mark
Twain quote, “Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to
their level and beat you with experience.” Why don't you just filter him
out, as most of us have done, and spend the time doing something more
productive.

Tom Kunich

nepřečteno,

9. 4. 2021 16:58:2009.04.21

komu:

On one of the Trek sites it said that SLR meant "rim brakes" Why do you have a different story?

Tom Kunich

nepřečteno,

9. 4. 2021 17:00:4409.04.21

komu:

Perhaps you'd like to inform us when you have ever for one second in your life done anything "productive"?

sms

nepřečteno,

9. 4. 2021 17:23:4809.04.21

komu:

On 4/9/2021 1:45 PM, jbeattie wrote:

<snip>

> NO, NO, NO. Your bike is not an SRL. SLR is a whole other frame. Different carbon lay-up and different cable arrangement -- lighter and way more expensive. https://www.sefiles.net/images/library/zoom/trek-emonda-slr-6-305211-14.jpg Look at the f***** label on your bike: SL6. This is not brain surgery. Do you not look at any of the links I posted (rhetorical question). Go back to the video I posted. That is your goddamned bike. WAKE UP!
>
> -- Jay Beattie.
>

"Never Argue With a Fool, Onlookers May Not Be Able To Tell the
Difference" ― Author unknown

jbeattie

nepřečteno,

9. 4. 2021 17:25:2409.04.21

komu:

It is not a "story" and is not subject to debate. You're wrong . . . again. Feast your eyes on disc SLRs. https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/bikes/road-bikes/performance-road-bikes/%C3%A9monda/%C3%A9monda-slr/%C3%A9monda-slr-7/p/32565/?colorCode=reddark_black It's a different frame with different carbon. EOM.

-- Jay Beattie.

Tom Kunich

nepřečteno,

9. 4. 2021 19:07:5709.04.21

komu:

OK, that other site was incorrect. So what? Can you explain to me what the hell you're trying to do here? Is it simply your life's dream to prove that I'm wrong on one of the world's most unimportant matters? Is this because I didn't believe when you said that the Portland riots were "mostly peaceful"?

John B.

nepřečteno,

9. 4. 2021 19:11:0209.04.21

komu:

Gee Tommy and here I was saving your posts... in case you ever tell
the truth.
--
Cheers,

John B.

John B.

nepřečteno,

9. 4. 2021 19:57:5609.04.21

komu:

On Fri, 9 Apr 2021 16:07:55 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich

Truly, you hit the nail on the head. Truly you are "one of the world's
most unimportant matters".
(although one of the greatest liars)
--
Cheers,

John B.

Jeff Liebermann

nepřečteno,

9. 4. 2021 21:12:3509.04.21

komu:

On Fri, 9 Apr 2021 13:45:00 -0700 (PDT), jbeattie <jbeat...@msn.com>
wrote:

>NO, NO, NO. Your bike is not an SRL. SLR is a whole other frame. Different carbon lay-up and different cable arrangement -- lighter and way more expensive. https://www.sefiles.net/images/library/zoom/trek-emonda-slr-6-305211-14.jpg Look at the f***** label on your bike: SL6. This is not brain surgery. Do you not look at any of the links I posted (rhetorical question). Go back to the video I posted. That is your goddamned bike. WAKE UP!
>-- Jay Beattie.

Photo of the label from Tom's eBay listing:
<https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/cYkAAOSwUH1gbHtt/s-l1600.jpg>
So it is written, so it must be.

jbeattie

nepřečteno,

10. 4. 2021 0:33:3810.04.21

komu:

On Friday, April 9, 2021 at 6:12:35 PM UTC-7, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Fri, 9 Apr 2021 13:45:00 -0700 (PDT), jbeattie <jbeat...@msn.com>
> wrote:
> >NO, NO, NO. Your bike is not an SRL. SLR is a whole other frame. Different carbon lay-up and different cable arrangement -- lighter and way more expensive. https://www.sefiles.net/images/library/zoom/trek-emonda-slr-6-305211-14.jpg Look at the f***** label on your bike: SL6. This is not brain surgery. Do you not look at any of the links I posted (rhetorical question). Go back to the video I posted. That is your goddamned bike. WAKE UP!
> >-- Jay Beattie.
> Photo of the label from Tom's eBay listing:
> <https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/cYkAAOSwUH1gbHtt/s-l1600.jpg>
> So it is written, so it must be.

That's my simple point. This is not a matter of guessing or opinion. I don't want people thinking that their rim-brake SLs are SLRs. It's a different frame. Both fine frames, but one is finer.

-- Jay Beattie.

Tom Kunich

nepřečteno,

10. 4. 2021 10:45:3310.04.21

komu:

Jay, they advertise the Trek Emonda SLR as "insanely light at 640 grams" Those weight measurements are usually for the smallest size and THAT weight is 1.4 lbs. My 60 cm frame and seatpost were 2 lbs. Why don't you go out and pay almost $4,000 for that insanely light bike. Much to my surprise I have been unable to tell the difference in a 16 lb. bike and a 20 lb bike. I suppose you could in a 20 mile climb but hard 20 mile climbs aren't that common anywhere.

sms

nepřečteno,

10. 4. 2021 10:56:5010.04.21

komu:

Someone spending that much on a used bike, with no frame warranty, is
certain to know the difference between an SL and an SLR. Nothing wrong
with a used SL at the proper price. As you stated earlier, and everyone
agrees, his asking price is about $800-1000 too high. But he's accepting
offers and he probably could get $2000-2400 for it if he can find the
right buyer.

ritzann...@gmail.com

nepřečteno,

10. 4. 2021 11:37:4610.04.21

komu:

On Thursday, April 8, 2021 at 7:35:29 AM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, April 8, 2021 at 5:14:41 AM UTC-7, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 2:34:03 PM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > To send a bike by ground transportation from Oakland to Washington DC is $400 with packing and shipping. This is WITHOUT insurance.
> > My shipping experience is limited to a very few times at the local UPS office and the US Post Office. And the prices always seem high for small boxes. I'm guessing shipping costs are one reason Craig's List local sales saw growth in the past decade, at the expense of eBay. I have some specialized items I have considered selling. But maybe I am lucky in that they are a name brand item with dedicated sales forums on the internet. Shipping, local delivery may work out differently than with very large bicycle boxes sent across the USA.

> The San Francisco bay area runs from Santa Rosa to Gilroy and from the Peninsula to Livermore This is about a quarter of the costal area of California. I can advertise my stuff for the exact same prices and eventually it will sell and people might drive from Sacramento or Modesto to get it. So it isn't as if I overprice my stuff. Only someone like sms could say such things. And you will notice that the types of bikes he is interested in he says are worth the prices they are asking. This is a pretty clear indication of why he lost his political office.
>
> I listed my Emonda on eBay two days ago and I've already had two offers on it.

Above you state "So it isn't as if I overprice my stuff." And above you also state "I listed my Emonda on eBay two days ago and I've already had two offers on it." Why haven't you sold your bike? We have supply, your bike. We have demand, the two offers. Supply and demand, capitalism. What don't we have? A mutually agreeable price?

ritzann...@gmail.com

nepřečteno,

10. 4. 2021 11:55:2410.04.21

komu:

On Thursday, April 8, 2021 at 5:11:09 PM UTC-5, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thu, 08 Apr 2021 14:59:04 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>
> wrote:

> >On Thu, 8 Apr 2021 05:35:27 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
> ><cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >>I listed my Emonda on eBay two days ago and I've already had two offers on it.
> >

> >I'm disappointed. You post a blow by blow account of your trials and
> >tribulations preparing an unknown quantity of bicycles for sale and
> >you fail to post a photo or eBay page? After a dozen articles
> >discussing the relative merits of different bottom bracket threads and
> >receiving expert advice on exactly how you screwed up, I would have
> >expected a photo and description of the final result. At a minimum,
> >you should be proud to display the results of your skill and efforts.
> >Instead, you require those who had assisted to laboriously dig through
> >the eBay listings to find a photo and description. Aren't you proud
> >of your work? Don't you want others to see your handiwork? If so,
> >why are you don't your best to hide the listing? Or, are we just
> >pawns in your game of chess interested only in maximizing your
> >profits? What are you hiding?

> It was a difficult 5 minute search, but I think I found it. Is it
> this one?
>
> "Trek Emonda 60 cm Ultegra Di2"
> <https://www.ebay.com/itm/Trek-Emonda-60-cm-Ultegra-Di2/294106726321>
> $3,500 + $150 shipping.

> --
> Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
> PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
> Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
> Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

I don't know. The somewhat high price of $3500 for a used bike and complete lack of year of the bike or group does match up really well with Tom. And the San Leandro location of the seller. And his description of the shipping matches his prior post about the real shipping cost being $156 + $174 = $330. I guess $330 equals $400 mentioned in the eBay ad. Personally the math I learned in school never made $330 equal $400, but Tom didn't go to school.

But the really questionable part is the ad has this quote "Di2 shifting is absolutely the best." Now we all know Tom has posted many, many, many times about how awful and terrible and horrible Di2 is. So this would be an outright lie. And we know Tom/Trump does not lie!

ritzann...@gmail.com

nepřečteno,

10. 4. 2021 12:01:4210.04.21

komu:

On Thursday, April 8, 2021 at 6:06:50 PM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> You must have an ego the size of the White House and a mind with similar values.
>

Thank all the deities we managed to get rid of Trump, the prior occupant of the White House who did have an ego the size of the White House. His mind had very low values.

ritzann...@gmail.com

nepřečteno,

10. 4. 2021 12:05:4410.04.21

komu:

On Thursday, April 8, 2021 at 6:16:34 PM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, April 8, 2021 at 3:54:06 PM UTC-7, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Thu, 8 Apr 2021 15:26:41 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich

> > <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > >On Thursday, April 8, 2021 at 3:11:09 PM UTC-7, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
> > >> "Trek Emonda 60 cm Ultegra Di2"
> > >> <https://www.ebay.com/itm/Trek-Emonda-60-cm-Ultegra-Di2/294106726321>
> > >> $3,500 + $150 shipping.
> >

> > >Did you find that Emonda the same size with Ultegra manual shifting parts on it for twice that price? No, I didn't think that you would mention it if you had.
> > Is that the correct listing? We want to know.
> >
> > Sorting the available Emonda bicycles by price:
> > <https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=emonda>
> > We find that there are 24 out of 53 bicycles selling for less than
> > your $3,500 asking price. There are two machines offered for $10,000
> > each. One is also asking $1,000 for shipping:
> > <https://www.ebay.com/itm/164545474696>
> > We suggest you raise your asking price.

> > --
> > Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
> > PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
> > Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
> > Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

ritzann...@gmail.com

nepřečteno,

10. 4. 2021 12:12:5210.04.21

komu:

On Thursday, April 8, 2021 at 6:30:56 PM UTC-5, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thu, 8 Apr 2021 15:51:37 -0700, sms <scharf...@geemail.com>
> wrote:

> >On 4/8/2021 3:11 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> >
> ><snip>
> >

> >> It was a difficult 5 minute search, but I think I found it. Is it
> >> this one?
> >>

> >> "Trek Emonda 60 cm Ultegra Di2"
> >> <https://www.ebay.com/itm/Trek-Emonda-60-cm-Ultegra-Di2/294106726321>
> >> $3,500 + $150 shipping.
> >

> >There were several different Emonda variants in 2018. At $3500 for a
> >used one with no warranty presumably it's the Émonda SLR ($6500 new),
> >but the listing doesn't say.

> "New 2018 Trek Emonda SLR & SL - Ten Things to Know"
> <https://www.bikeexchange.com/blog/trek-emonda-2018-ten-things-to-know>
> Item #10 is a chart of various 2018 Emonda models and associated MSRP.
>
> Model US MSRP
> Émonda SLR 9 $11,000
> Émonda SLR 8 Disc $7,000
> Émonda SLR 8 $6,500
> Émonda SLR 6 Disc $5,500
> Émonda SLR 6 $5,000
> Émonda SL 7 $4,500
> Émonda SL 6 Disc $2,999
> Émonda SL 6 Pro TBD
> Émonda SL 6 $2,500
> Émonda SL 5 $2,000
> Émonda SL 5 Women's $2,000
>
> I can't tell if it's a 5, 6, 7, 8, or 9 model.
> >A rule of thumb for used bicycles in person to person sales is that it's
> >worth 60% of the new MSRP at the time (if the used bike is in pristine
> >condition) and upgrades do not improve the value. So $6500 * 0.60 =
> >$3900, so $3650 is not unreasonable considering the cosmetic damage that
> >is noted. But if it's a lower-end model then the price is high.
> I would think that the Di2 shifters would add quite a bit to the
> value.
> --
> Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com

I suspect the 60% valuation sms used applies to Di2 as well as the frame, wheels, parts, etc. Di2 depreciates equally with all the other parts. I don't think of Di2 as an upgrade. They are a completely different shifting system. You pay more up front, but you get more on resale too. 60% of new according to sms valuation.

sms

nepřečteno,

10. 4. 2021 12:15:0010.04.21

komu:

On 4/10/2021 8:37 AM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:

<snip>

> Above you state "So it isn't as if I overprice my stuff." And above you also state "I listed my Emonda on eBay two days ago and I've already had two offers on it." Why haven't you sold your bike? We have supply, your bike. We have demand, the two offers. Supply and demand, capitalism. What don't we have? A mutually agreeable price?

Nothing anyone says here will convince him that he is asking too much.

Eventually it will sell, if he really wants to get rid of it and is
willing to accept an appropriate offer. And it only takes one person
that is willing to overpay for him to sell it.

You see this all the time on craigslist, Nextdoor, and eBay. Many people
base their price on what they paid for something, or on the MSRP, not
understanding how most used stuff loses a big percentage of its value.
Then they get extremely defensive if anyone points out that the reason
something isn't selling is that they priced it way too high.

It's common to see used bicycles priced very high. I saw a 1980's Fuji
Sundance mountain bike, a model I once owned, advertised for $500 on
Nextdoor. It was $425, new, 35 years ago. It had those U brakes, with
the rear brake down by the bottom bracket. I donated mine to a
non-profit that takes under-privileged kids mountain biking "Trips for
Kids."

With used bicycles the other issue is that someone trying to save money
on a high-end bicycle could just go to a bicycle shop at the end of the
model year when they have big sales and get 25-35% off the remaining
stock. I know it would drive Trek and Specialized dealers crazy when the
manufacturer began clearing out inventory and offering shops really low
wholesale prices because the dealers were often stuck with inventory
that they paid much higher prices for and had to sell that inventory at
lower prices too.

You can Google the closeout sales for the Emonda SL6 for 2019. The first
result I got the shop was selling the 2019 Emonda SL6 Pro for $3199.99.
You would get the full warranty. But no added Di2. When you're pricing a
used item you can't just go by the MSRP of the item when it was
introduced, you have to look at the street price of item that shops were
actually selling it for.

ritzann...@gmail.com

nepřečteno,

10. 4. 2021 12:26:4510.04.21

komu:

On Thursday, April 8, 2021 at 9:31:04 PM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> Looks to me like you're trying to talk me down on my price. Too bad that I've already had two offers and turned them down. That was in the first day. Maybe you can explain why you think that my stuff is worthless, but 11 other cited bikes that are like mine or less, are priced as high or higher than mine?

You had two offers in the first day BUT did not sell the bike. Maybe because the bike is overpriced? I've heard tell in California in the Bay area that houses are listed and they receive dozens of offers on the first day and the actual selling price is 20% higher than asking price. Not in your case though.

As for why we don't comment on the 11 other bikes for sale priced higher? Those people aren't participating in this forum. My city has a newspaper with want ads. I am not commenting on everything being sold in my city. My city has houses for sale. The only ones I am interested in are ones priced similarly to mine AND are in similar locations and size and age and condition. Million dollar mansions in country clubs don't merit any attention from me.

sms

nepřečteno,

10. 4. 2021 12:27:4110.04.21

komu:

On 4/10/2021 8:55 AM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:

<snip>

> I don't know. The somewhat high price of $3500 for a used bike and complete lack of year of the bike or group does match up really well with Tom. And the San Leandro location of the seller. And his description of the shipping matches his prior post about the real shipping cost being $156 + $174 = $330. I guess $330 equals $400 mentioned in the eBay ad. Personally the math I learned in school never made $330 equal $400, but Tom didn't go to school.

Not sure who he's using for shipping. The last time I shipped a bike,
from California to Minnesota, I checked online for shipping costs for
the size and weight of the box. FedEx Ground was much less expensive
than UPS Ground and I just took it to the FedEx office a half mile from
my house. If he's paying that much for shipping I suspect that he's
using UPS. My experience was years ago and perhaps the price difference
has narrowed.

>
> But the really questionable part is the ad has this quote "Di2 shifting is absolutely the best." Now we all know Tom has posted many, many, many times about how awful and terrible and horrible Di2 is. So this would be an outright lie. And we know Tom/Trump does not lie!

LOL, the real question is does Tom/Trump ever tell the truth! But
actually, Di2, factory installed, does shift really well. A kludged Di2
setup maybe not so well.

ritzann...@gmail.com

nepřečteno,

10. 4. 2021 12:42:5410.04.21

komu:

On Friday, April 9, 2021 at 3:47:55 PM UTC-5, sms wrote:
> You and Jay arguing with posters like Tom reminds me of the alleged Mark
> Twain quote, “Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to
> their level and beat you with experience.” Why don't you just filter him
> out, as most of us have done, and spend the time doing something more
> productive.

Because its fun and entertaining! Me, Jeff, Jay know we are not going to convince Tom he is wrong. But its still fun to argue.

ritzann...@gmail.com

nepřečteno,

10. 4. 2021 13:00:2110.04.21

komu:

I own a 7970 Di2 equipped bike. Set up and installed by Me, Myself, and I. And it shifts perfectly times ten.

Jeff Liebermann

nepřečteno,

10. 4. 2021 13:18:4210.04.21

komu:

On Sat, 10 Apr 2021 09:14:58 -0700, sms <scharf...@geemail.com>
wrote:

>You can Google the closeout sales for the Emonda SL6 for 2019. The first
>result I got the shop was selling the 2019 Emonda SL6 Pro for $3199.99.

Searching the sold items on eBay that match "trek emonda 2019 sl6"
might yield a better asking price estimate:
<https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=trek+emonda+2019+sl6&_sacat=0&rt=nc&LH_Sold=1&LH_Complete=1>
Unfortunately, eBay does not list the actual selling price when the
seller accepts a lower offer.

$100 to $150 shipping seems to be the typical shipping charges,
although Tom's 60cm frame:
<https://www.ebay.com/itm/Trek-Emonda-60-cm-Ultegra-Di2/294106726321>
allegedly requires paying an oversize surcharge. I could not find
another 60 cm Emonda that sold on eBay. However, a slightly smaller
58cm Emonda SL6 was shipped for $100:
<https://www.ebay.com/itm/2020-Trek-Emonda-SL-6-Disc-Pro-Size-58-cm/114657192614>
It might be worthwhile sending email to the seller and asking him what
service he used for shipping.

Incidentally, among Tom's eBay seller feedback at:
<https://www.ebay.com/fdbk/feedback_profile/tomk37?filter=feedback_page:RECEIVED_AS_SELLER>
he sold a "Colnago Dream HP 58 cm c-c" for something less than the
$1,100 asking price to what seems to be a rather satisfied buyer:
"Great seller! Knows his cycling gear and all was as
described and very helpful."

On the topic of large frames, I bought this Specialized Stumpjumper
for about $40 at a local thrift shop. I forgot the frame size. It
was far too large for me, but I thought I could salvage the
components. I then spent few years trying to decide what to do with
it. One day, a friend arrived with her new 6 ft something tall
boyfriend in tow. He begged me to sell him the bicycle as he was
having no luck finding a cheap large frame bicycle in his size. Just
one problem. He was flat broke and deep in debt. So, I gave it to
him (after catching up on the deferred maintenance). I later
regretted that decision when I discovered that there is a small but
well paying market for very large size bicycles. Oh well.

jbeattie

nepřečteno,

10. 4. 2021 13:27:3810.04.21

komu:

Like I've said, I own a SLR 6 Project One Race Shop frame, but I got employee pricing from Trek. I would never pay list for a bike of that caliber -- or any bike. I love it, but my son's SL6 was also a fine bike. The Emonda is a great bike. I can tell the difference between the Trek and my heavier Synapse, which is actually a stiffer bike -- which is odd for an "endurance" bike. Both kick the snot out of my commuter -- which is a soul-sucking pig. My last purchase was my wife's Specialized Vado, which I got courtesy of my son. My wife kicks my ass on that bike. I was doing a full sprint to hang on her up the last hill to our house and just let her go on the steep stuff. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-eQ2nzURIQ&ab_channel=SpecializedBicycles

-- Jay Beattie.

jbeattie

nepřečteno,

10. 4. 2021 13:39:1510.04.21

komu:

I don't know if fun is the right word, and Sir is certainly correct that we shouldn't -- but I do have an need to make sure the record is correct on technical issues relating to bikes so it is is not misleading to someone Googling with a similar problem. As for politics, it is just argument, but again, the facts should be correct -- although facts seem malleable when it comes to politics. That's not true when it comes to bike parts. An Italian BB will not fit an ISO BB, even with a big hammer.

-- Jay Beattie.

sms

nepřečteno,

10. 4. 2021 14:06:2810.04.21

komu:

Yes, properly installed after-market stuff is fine when you're not
kludging together incompatible parts. I installed disc brakes on my
mountain bike and they work fine since the wheels and frame were setup
for discs already (it's an old Marin Bear Valley).

But remember, Tom is not an engineer and he doesn't have the same
mindset when it comes to mechanical or electrical devices.

sms

nepřečteno,

10. 4. 2021 14:19:2710.04.21

komu:

On 4/10/2021 10:18 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

<snip>

> On the topic of large frames, I bought this Specialized Stumpjumper
> for about $40 at a local thrift shop. I forgot the frame size. It
> was far too large for me, but I thought I could salvage the
> components. I then spent few years trying to decide what to do with
> it. One day, a friend arrived with her new 6 ft something tall
> boyfriend in tow. He begged me to sell him the bicycle as he was
> having no luck finding a cheap large frame bicycle in his size. Just
> one problem. He was flat broke and deep in debt. So, I gave it to
> him (after catching up on the deferred maintenance). I later
> regretted that decision when I discovered that there is a small but
> well paying market for very large size bicycles. Oh well.

You were a mensch. Don't feel bad!

sms

nepřečteno,

10. 4. 2021 14:25:3210.04.21

komu:

On 4/10/2021 10:39 AM, jbeattie wrote:

<snip>

> ...I do have an need to make sure the record is correct on technical issues relating to bikes so it is is not misleading to someone Googling with a similar problem.

<snip>

I found a cartoon of you online:
<https://drive.google.com/file/d/1G8jGWro58YIrmgmJE7i0nPS5jYlGPTVC/>

Jeff Liebermann

nepřečteno,

10. 4. 2021 14:38:4610.04.21

komu:

On Fri, 9 Apr 2021 13:47:54 -0700, sms <scharf...@geemail.com>
wrote:

>On 4/9/2021 12:51 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>
><snip>
>

>> This mind dead idiot tried the link you posted and found that it wants
>> me to login to Craigslist. Of course your "old" listings would appear
>> if you logged in first. Try logging out and tell us what you see.
>> Otherwise, the public link to your Emonda at:
>> <https://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/bik/d/san-leandro-2018-trek-emonda-sl6-with/7284847343.html>
>> shows a message that you deleted the listing.
>
>LOL, I don't think he realizes that the links for viewing a craigslist
>listing, and managing the listing, are very different.

Well, he does now. It's a common problem. I like to use two
computers when I make changes to my web pile or online photo albums.
On one machine, I login to my site and do the necessary additions and
editing. On the other machine, I do NOT login and look at the results
as seen by the rest of the world. It's especially useful for Google
Photos (or whatever it's called this week), where I frequently screw
up the permissions for individual users and groups.

>> Let us know if you need help learning how Craigslist works and how to
>> post a photo on any of the major free photo album sites. We recommend
>> Flickr (free to 1000 photos):
>> <https://www.flickr.com>
>
>You can also create a sub-directory on Google Drive, and upload and
>share photos.

Yes, that's also a good alternative. I rather like Flickr because I
can post large high resolution photos, and let the viewer decide the
size to view.

>> I'll be out of service for a day or two while I recover from yet
>> another case of food poisoning from my own cooking. Time to destroy
>> the kitchen and sanitize or replace everything. You can tell us how
>> to do that after your next topic change.

>You should fire that cook if he doesn't know how to safely cook stuff.

That's what everyone says. The only reason I'm still alive was that
before the pandemic, I was often eating at restaurants and diners. I'm
a lousy cook hate doing dishes. However, the pandemic has closed the
restaurants, take-out seems a little risky, and delivery is boring,
overpriced and of radically variable quality. Also, I live
sufficiently far away from civilization that the usual delivery
services decline to deliver. So, I'm forced to eat my own cooking
which is mostly nicrowaved and packaged in a can, bag, or box.
Diagnosing my own problem, my remaining possible culprits are an
allergy to something in pepperoni pizza, a gall bladder problem, a
refrigeration failure, or a kitchen sanitation (i.e. cutting board)
problem.

"When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however
improbable, must be the truth." Sir Arthur Conan Doyle.

Incidentally, I somehow lost 6 lbs in 2 days. Food poisoning is a
rather nasty and painful way to lose weight, but it does seem to work.
However, I wouldn't go so far as to recommend it.

>You and Jay arguing with posters like Tom reminds me of the alleged Mark
>Twain quote, “Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to
>their level and beat you with experience.” Why don't you just filter him
>out, as most of us have done, and spend the time doing something more
>productive.

If I had to justify my actions based on how useful or productive they
might be, I would never accomplish anything. I waste time and money
doing something I find entertaining quite often. Trying to convert
Tom into a reasonable person is what I do for entertainment. The
alternative would be Netflix or Disney, which I believe are less
entertaining. Also, if you've ever run a small business, arguing with
idiot employees, customers, and service providers, is a mandatory
skill. I assume politics is much the same. Arguing at his level is
not a problem for me. I consider it a major personal accomplishment
to be able to debate at all levels.

What makes arguing with Tom a suitable challenge is that unlike most
people, Tom is completely impervious to logic and oblivious to facts.
I've never had the honor of debating with somewhat like that and find
the challenge rather entertaining. It's much like target practice. I
take a shot at the target, and Tom moves the target. Shooting at a
fixed target is boring. A moving target is more fun.

I actually took Sir Ridesalot's advice and tried to ignore Tom. I
lasted about a week before I couldn't stand it any longer and felt
obligated to correct at least some of Tom's accumulated errors. I
might try ignoring him again later, but for now, the entertainment
value is too high to resist.

Tom Kunich

nepřečteno,

11. 4. 2021 12:25:5111.04.21

komu:

Can you suggest why you're trying to Jew me down? Is this a bike you want to buy at a bargain basement price?

Tom Kunich

nepřečteno,

11. 4. 2021 13:07:1711.04.21

komu:

Why don't you tell us what qualifications you have for anything. Barely one term in office shows us clearly your political qualifications.

Tom Kunich

nepřečteno,

11. 4. 2021 13:12:5011.04.21

komu:

Food poisoning is very difficult to get in this day and age. It is very unlikely it has anything to do wiyh you own cooking.

Frank Krygowski

nepřečteno,

11. 4. 2021 14:58:5211.04.21

komu:

On 4/11/2021 12:25 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>
> Can you suggest why you're trying to Jew me down? Is this a bike you want to buy at a bargain basement price?

I don't think I'm hyper-sensitive to ethnic or racist comments. But I
find the phrase "Jew me down" to be offensive.

--
- Frank Krygowski

Tom Kunich

nepřečteno,

11. 4. 2021 15:06:2211.04.21

komu:

Since my mother's father was an Austrian Jew I couldn't care less what your stupid pretend offenses are. For my first several years I spoke Yiddish almost as well as English. Perhaps you should get your ignorant head out of your ignorant left wing ass.

News 2021

nepřečteno,

11. 4. 2021 21:19:4711.04.21

komu:

On Sun, 11 Apr 2021 10:07:15 -0700, Tom Kunich scribed:

> Why don't you tell us what qualifications you have for anything. Barely
> one term in office shows us clearly your political qualifications.

Err, at your age you should well and truly know that you don't need
qualfications to run for a political position. just someone to fill in
the appropriate paper work, similar to what Trump did every time he went
to vote.

ritzann...@gmail.com

nepřečteno,

12. 4. 2021 16:24:3312.04.21

komu:

On Saturday, April 10, 2021 at 12:18:42 PM UTC-5, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
> it. One day, a friend arrived with her new 6 ft something tall
> boyfriend in tow. He begged me to sell him the bicycle as he was
> having no luck finding a cheap large frame bicycle in his size. Just
> one problem. He was flat broke and deep in debt. So, I gave it to
> him (after catching up on the deferred maintenance). I later
> regretted that decision when I discovered that there is a small but
> well paying market for very large size bicycles. Oh well.
> --
> Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com

It was a friend. Or the boyfriend of a friend. So take some solace in that act of generosity.

ritzann...@gmail.com

nepřečteno,

12. 4. 2021 16:35:3312.04.21

komu:

On Sunday, April 11, 2021 at 11:25:51 AM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> Can you suggest why you're trying to Jew me down? Is this a bike you want to buy at a bargain basement price?

Just to add some political correctness into the conversation. When I was a kid, 40 years ago!!!!!!! It was very common to hear the term "Jew me down" or something similar with the name Jew in it. I am aware of the stereotypes that originated this phrase. But until Tom wrote the above line, I had not heard the term "Jew me down" for decades probably. Everything changes over time.

sms

nepřečteno,

12. 4. 2021 19:19:5012.04.21

komu:

Or nothing changes over time for those that worshiped our previous
presoident.

Tom Kunich

nepřečteno,

12. 4. 2021 19:22:5412.04.21

komu:

And nothing ever changes with you Woke crowd that honestly believe that communist is the only way to go.

sms

nepřečteno,

12. 4. 2021 19:28:1812.04.21

komu:

On 4/12/2021 1:35 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:

I think that the funny/sad part of all this is that he's now adopted the
narrative that the reason everyone is telling him that his bike isn't
selling at the price he wants is that we're all trying to buy his bike
at a low price when there's not as single person on r.b.t. that has the
least interest in buying it.

John B.

nepřečteno,

12. 4. 2021 21:51:2512.04.21

komu:

Do you actually know anything about life under communism? Or are you
just using a word that you don't understand ?
--
Cheers,

John B.

ritzann...@gmail.com

nepřečteno,

13. 4. 2021 1:11:1013.04.21

komu:

WHO believes communism is the only way to go? Answer, no one. Even China, which I consider the most communist country around, knows communism does not work on the economic side. Its great for the government side. For those in government anyway. But China actively encourages and promotes economic capitalism for the masses. And for the capitalist USA, we are more socialist than the USSR ever dreamed of being. Medicare, social security, medicaid, farm subsidies, crop insurance, unemployment insurance, food stamps, etc. are right out of the socialist handbook.

John B.

nepřečteno,

13. 4. 2021 2:17:2713.04.21

komu:

So call it "socialism" as in Finland, France, Germany, Greenland,
Iceland, Italy. Luxembourg, Moldova, Netherlands all of which have a
socialistic economy?

Re the U.S. and Russia, I don't think so. I have a good friend - not
retired to Hungary - that grew up under the communistic system there,
and I assume that the Russian system was similar. Here is what he has
to say:

There was no jobless, there was no homeless. Everybody must go to
school. Education was free all the way through university.
The entry to university was based on points. That way the better
students could get the education.
Dormitory was free too. There were technical schools if one did not
had enough point to go to university.

One week free vacation in one of the union vacation resorts for every
family.

Sport was also free. Like I was in a glider flight club (free)
because I liked flying.

The reason he left? He had a degree in Chemical Engineering and wanted
to work in the oil industry and they assigned him to a food processing
establishment so he walked out.
--
Cheers,

John B.

sms

nepřečteno,

13. 4. 2021 10:06:0313.04.21

komu:

On 4/12/2021 10:11 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:

<snip>

> WHO believes communism is the only way to go? Answer, no one. Even China, which I consider the most communist country around, knows communism does not work on the economic side.

LOL, have you been to China lately? You'd be very hard-pressed to find a
communist, despite the name of the ruling party. They're more
capitalistic than the U.S..

Its great for the government side. For those in government anyway.
But China actively encourages and promotes economic capitalism for the
masses. And for the capitalist USA, we are more socialist than the USSR
ever dreamed of being. Medicare, social security, medicaid, farm
subsidies, crop insurance, unemployment insurance, food stamps, etc. are
right out of the socialist handbook.

You left out corporate welfare.

Frank Krygowski

nepřečteno,

13. 4. 2021 10:21:0713.04.21

komu:

On 4/13/2021 1:11 AM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Monday, April 12, 2021 at 6:22:54 PM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Monday, April 12, 2021 at 4:19:50 PM UTC-7, sms wrote:
>>> On 4/12/2021 1:35 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>>> On Sunday, April 11, 2021 at 11:25:51 AM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>> Can you suggest why you're trying to Jew me down? Is this a bike you want to buy at a bargain basement price?
>>>>
>>>> Just to add some political correctness into the conversation. When I was a kid, 40 years ago!!!!!!! It was very common to hear the term "Jew me down" or something similar with the name Jew in it. I am aware of the stereotypes that originated this phrase. But until Tom wrote the above line, I had not heard the term "Jew me down" for decades probably. Everything changes over time.
>>> Or nothing changes over time for those that worshiped our previous
>>> presoident.
>> And nothing ever changes with you Woke crowd that honestly believe that communist is the only way to go.
>
> WHO believes communism is the only way to go? Answer, no one. Even China, which I consider the most communist country around, knows communism does not work on the economic side. Its great for the government side. For those in government anyway.

I've read that monasteries and convents were and perhaps are a rare
example of "communism" success. They thrived during the middle ages even
when communities around them did poorly, and some continue to do well
today. But that success seems to require a passionate dedication to
something beyond individual prosperity.

In the early 1800s, IIRC, there were many utopian separatist communities
in the U.S. that were essentially communistic - Zoar, Old Economy, New
Harmony, Amana and others, some of which I've biked to. I don't think
many if any survive. Some were celibate, which would seem to quite
effectively drive the population to zero.

And at the other end of the spectrum, the "communes" that were a trendy
idea in the early 1970s were reputedly anti-celibate and communistic.
But I haven't heard of any that still exist. Again, I think successful
communism requires total devotion to something other than either
material gain or "flower power." There's no way it's going to work for
any but small and very unusual groups.

--
- Frank Krygowski

Tom Kunich

nepřečteno,

13. 4. 2021 11:32:2813.04.21

komu:

I think that the sad part is that I've just gotten an offer for my price minus the shipping costs. Seems like morons like you simply think that you who have never owned a decent bike in your life believe that you can offer advice where none is required or wanted. Now I simply will wait until I get my price.

Tom Kunich

nepřečteno,

13. 4. 2021 11:37:2313.04.21

komu:

Russell, of course China encourages what they call "capitalism" and in places that is what it is. But one third of China are in forced labor camps and large American company contracts use these forced labor and the money goes straight to the CCP government. There are videos still circulating on the Internet that show the workers on the Apple Iphone assembly line being whipped to work more rapidly. This is the world you seem to think is working. People do not voluntarily give up their work and all socialisms revert to fascist states to TAKE it from them.

John B.

nepřečteno,

13. 4. 2021 19:03:2713.04.21

komu:

On Tue, 13 Apr 2021 08:37:20 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich

"But one third of China are in forced labor camps"???

Really? Truly? That would be about 481,234,331 people. Which is about
151,030,899 more then the entire population of the U.S.

Are you really sure about that Tommy?
--
Cheers,

John B.

ritzann...@gmail.com

nepřečteno,

13. 4. 2021 20:11:2713.04.21

komu:

I do not know the ratio of prison, forced labor camp guards to inmates, but lets pretend it is 1 to 10. One guard with a gun monitoring 10 prisoners ratio. So that means China has about 48 million guards for the 481 million prisoners. 48 is 14.5% of 330. So China is using 14.5% of the entire USA population just to guard all of their forced labor camp workers. And that is excluding the actual criminals in China who are locked up in the real prisons with guards. I'm assuming China has a few regular prisons for criminals. The USA labor force reached a high of 164 million workers in Feb 2020. Given the Covid crisis and all the lost jobs and people leaving the labor force since then, we might have 150 million workers today. So China employs almost one third as many guards for their labor camps as total employees in the USA. Wow.