Opinions on Gios frames?
spi...@earthlink.net
Does anyone have any experience with modern Gios frames? I need to
replace my Eddy Merckx which is certainly a very nice frame but has
always lacked a certain zing, at least for me. I think it's time to
head south to Italy!
Many years ago I had the pleasure of owning a Gios Torino, which was
clearly an absolutely spectacular bike until it was crashed beyond
repair. I am wondering if their modern steel frames (e.g., their
"Compact Pro" models) are, relative to what one can get today, as good.
You don't often see people riding them, although I believe they are
still quite available in the U.S.
Mark A
In article <34AD5A...@earthlink.net>
spi...@earthlink.net writes:
"Good" is tough to nail down because everyone's definition is
different. IMO, Italian bikes are "bad" because they're relatively
expensive and the paint is not durable. Why shell out $1K+ for an
Italian frame when you can get well made, custom frame with great paint
from any number of US builders?
CLSum
I agree. If your Mercxx lacks zing then I would concentrate on geometry more
than country of origin. I personally like the 73/73 geometry because it is
stable, but it will always lack zing.
Just my opinion.
fong
Well The Us may not be crazy about Gios but the Japanese are.
Gios is the biggest brand of racing bikes in Japan. I thought that was a
joke until i did the Suzuka RR and witnessed this for myself. They are
everywhere.
Hey for what it's worth when i first got into racing about ten years ago my
dream bike was a Gios pro with full campy super record.
edgar
Mark Summers
To all,
I have a twenty year old Blue Gios Torino Super Record in pristine
condition. It has all Campy Super Record Equipment and I would not trade it
for the world. As far as the new models, I can't help you there.
Mark
spi...@earthlink.net wrote in message <34AD5A...@earthlink.net>...
Pechs1
Masi-built in Italia-painted in the US w/ Imron-start at $699-
ProPeloton
Boulder
Pechs1
JDTPumps
Amen, Mark Summers! My Gios is maybe 1980, don't know exactly. Was a
christmas present from my wife & bothers. Has fat tubeys and campy. It has a
feel that can't be put in words. I'm told its the SLX tubes and the Italian
way of doing things.
If you love bicycles and bicyling you will not be disappointed.
Bill Taylor
PS: Their top tubes run short. my 54c-t has a 53 TT!
nbce...@delphi.com
The latest issue of Bicyclist has a review of the Gios Lite model
which is made with Dedacciai tubing. My recollection is that it got a
favorable review and that the frame was nicely finished.
I have ridden with a guy in NYC who had the Compact Pro and simply
loved it. It certainly was a beautiful bike to look at, especially if
you have always coveted the Gios since the days of Didi Thurau riding in
the Ijsboerke-Gios yellow and blue.
Brian Lafferty
Scribe2b
Gios frames are beautiful but they remind me of the time the Columbians were
training--- all on Gios bikes---in the Santa Monicas, I believe for the Coors
Classic. Hector Monsalve was hel;ping train them, and on a downhill, one Gios
began the kind of shimmy that has been discussed in this group--- the rider, a
famed cliber, suddenly wanted no part of Gois, they were junk, etc, because it
scared him half to death. well, Hector told him this could happen to any bike,
no matter how lovely they looked, and the rider went on and rode the Gios
because it was what the team rode. the shimmy never came back but the rider
was never as fast on a downhill on the bike either.
to...@earthlink.net
Scribe2b wrote:
>
> Gios frames are beautiful but they remind me of the time the Columbians were
> training--- all on Gios bikes---in the Santa Monicas, I believe for the Coors
> began the kind of shimmy that has been discussed in this group--- the rider, a
> famed cliber, suddenly wanted no part of Gois, they were junk, etc, because it
> scared him half to death. well, Hector told him this could happen to any bike,
> no matter how lovely they looked, and the rider went on and rode the Gios
> because it was what the team rode. the shimmy never came back but the rider
> was never as fast on a downhill on the bike either.
I think the shimmy could in fact be related to what's been talked about
here. Gios frames, while stunningly beautiful (I have never seen a
handsomer blue) and by all accounts absolutely rocket-like on climbs,
have top tubes that are even shorter than some of the other Italian
frames. I think you'd be hard-pressed to find a road bike with a
shorter wheelbase for a given frame size. Accordingly, many Gios people
that I've seen use a long 12-14 cm stem. Which is fine in and of itself,
but by the time you add the forward reach of some of the newer anatomic
bars and those long-bodied STI/ergo levers, your weight is really out
there, well in front of the front axle. This puts an awful lot of
pressure on the front wheel which, in my experience, can lead directly
to shimmy, esp. if the bike is even very slightly mis-aligned (please
correct me if I am wrong).
Accordingly, for steep descents on those fabulous, fabulous bikes, some
find it helpful to remember to sit back a little and take some of that
weight off the front wheel.
Ricardo Colon
I have one of the new ones..the Gios Lite. This one does not have
the "compact" dropouts. Instead it has normal horizontal dropouts. This
bike has turned more heads in one year than any other bike I've owned
before.It is just plain gorgeous. It is nice and stiff in the BB.
Geometry is more suited to crits than RR's IMOH. I like the ride very
much as, even thought the geometry is more crit oriented, the frameset
will not beat you up in a long road ride. It does a good job smoothing
up the road.I'm selling my frameset because it does not fit me as well
as my previous bike. (If anyone is looking for a cheap 1 year old 56cm
Gios frameset, drop me
a line at nar...@cae.cig.mot.com).
All in all, they're excellent frames, with gorgeous paint and the price
is right.
--
Ricardo Colon
Q14...@email.mot.com
Drew Eckhardt
In article <34AD5A...@earthlink.net>, <spi...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>You don't often see people riding them, although I believe they are
>still quite available in the U.S.
I considered a Gios frame when building my new road bike, although
I gave up the thought when I realized I couldn't straddle one with a
long enough top tube.
They're _real_ short up top, meaning those of us with an above
average torso to leg length ratio won't fit period. People with
more normal proportions will fit, but may be happier (losing
3cm of seat tube made me feel a _lot_ more in control of the
bike on track stands and when I'm out of the saddle) with the
shorter seat tube possible with a different manufacturer's frame
geometry.
Nice paint job though...
--
"Come to the edge, Life said. They said: We are afraid. Come to the edge,
Life said. They came. Life pushed them...and they flew." -Guillaume Apollinaire
Work: dr...@Qualcomm.COM Play: dr...@PoohSticks.ORG
Home Page: <a href="http://www.poohsticks.org/drew/">Home Page</a>
Sonja Schellenberg
I'm looking for a road bike with a short top tube. It should be
preferably made of aluminium or carbon. Any suggestions?
Sonja
Tom Kunich
In article <34B64549...@lhsystems.com>,
Sonja Schellenberg <Schell...@lhsystems.com> wrote:
>
> I'm looking for a road bike with a short top tube. It should be
> preferably made of aluminium or carbon. Any suggestions?
Aluminum: Cannondale and Klein.
Carbon: Trek 5000 series and Kestrels.
-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet
Matt O'Toole
Tom Kunich wrote in message <884379546...@dejanews.com>...
>In article <34B64549...@lhsystems.com>,
> Sonja Schellenberg <Schell...@lhsystems.com> wrote:
>>
>> I'm looking for a road bike with a short top tube. It should be
>> preferably made of aluminium or carbon. Any suggestions?
>Aluminum: Cannondale and Klein.
Cannondales are short, Kleins are long.
Matt O.
Chris Neary
tku...@diabloresearch.com (Tom Kunich) wrote:
>In article <34B64549...@lhsystems.com>,
> Sonja Schellenberg <Schell...@lhsystems.com> wrote:
>>
>> I'm looking for a road bike with a short top tube. It should be
>> preferably made of aluminium or carbon. Any suggestions?
>Carbon: Trek 5000 series and Kestrels.
Both the Trek and Kestrel don't have particularly short top tubes.
In fact, I don't know of any non-custom carbon frames with short top
tubes. Calfee Designs (aka CarbonFrames) are available in custom sizes,
but are big $$$.
I'd start by looking at the Cannondales.
Also do a DejaNews search. There was a similar thread entitled something
likes "bikes for short women" only a couple of months ago. You'll
probably find some good info there.
Good luck in your search,
Chris Neary
dia...@aimnet.com
"It doesn't get any easier - you just go faster" - Greg Lemond
John Everett
In article <696ao1$h93$1...@news01.deltanet.com>, ma...@deltanet.com says...
>
>> Sonja Schellenberg <Schell...@lhsystems.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> I'm looking for a road bike with a short top tube. It should be
>>> preferably made of aluminium or carbon. Any suggestions?
>
>
>Cannondales are short, Kleins are long.
And the Vitus 992 is even shorter if memory serves me correctly, and a really
nice bike besides.
--
jeve...@wwa.DEFEAT.UCE.BOTS.com (John Everett) http://www.wwa.com/~jeverett
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Things have gotten so bad I feel the need to disguise my email address.
And I don't like this explanation because I just hate long signatures.
Rick Denney
My Trek 5500 is built about square. I consider that a long top tube.
On Fri, 09 Jan 1998 15:02:38 -0600, tku...@diabloresearch.com (Tom
Kunich) wrote:
>In article <34B64549...@lhsystems.com>,
> Sonja Schellenberg <Schell...@lhsystems.com> wrote:
>>
>> I'm looking for a road bike with a short top tube. It should be
>> preferably made of aluminium or carbon. Any suggestions?
>
>Aluminum: Cannondale and Klein.
>
>Carbon: Trek 5000 series and Kestrels.
>
>-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
> http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet
Rick Denney
Take what you want and leave the rest.
Mark Hickey
rde...@mail.viggen.com (Rick Denney) wrote:
>My Trek 5500 is built about square. I consider that a long top tube.
Depends.... A square 50cm bike is VERY short, while a square
64cm bike is VERY long... while a square 56cm bike is "just right".
Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.cynetfl.com/habanero/
Joe Lucchio
Chris Neary wrote:
> tku...@diabloresearch.com (Tom Kunich) wrote:
>
> >In article <34B64549...@lhsystems.com>,
> > Sonja Schellenberg <Schell...@lhsystems.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> I'm looking for a road bike with a short top tube. It should be
> >> preferably made of aluminium or carbon. Any suggestions?
>
> >Carbon: Trek 5000 series and Kestrels.
>
> Both the Trek and Kestrel don't have particularly short top tubes.
Kestrels are longer than Treks on similarly sized bikes. Treks have
lengthened their top tubes over the past couple years, but originally the
OCLV's were shorter and the frames were undersquare. The Treks are also
measured kinda strange as well. Consider the fact the frames are the same
for the Lemond and Trek, but the "frame sizes" are different. Although the
frame sizes are different, the top tube legnths are the same for the 59 cm
Trek and 57cm Lemond. It all depends on how the frames are measured for
seat tube legnth. The only way you can tell is to have someone fit you for
your bike! Hell, fit is the most important thing, not what its made of.
Any poorly fitting bike, whether it is aluminum, carbon or bamboo is a waste
of money.
Rick Denney
Mine's a 58. In reviewing a buying guide a year ago or so, I noted
that it was at the long end of the spectrum in top tube length. My
Eddy Merckx is about a half centimeter shorter, and it's longer than
most famous Italian bikes.
On Mon, 12 Jan 1998 06:34:32 GMT, mhi...@cynetfl.com (Mark Hickey)
wrote:
Joe Lucchio
Rick Denney wrote:
> Mine's a 58. In reviewing a buying guide a year ago or so, I noted
> that it was at the long end of the spectrum in top tube length. My
> Eddy Merckx is about a half centimeter shorter, and it's longer than
> most famous Italian bikes.
Most famous Italian bikes have short top tubes, especially when you get
into larger sizes.
Matt O'Toole
Joe Lucchio wrote in message <34BBD552...@castles.com>...
>Most famous Italian bikes have short top tubes, especially when you get
>into larger sizes.
That seems to be the case. However, it's interesting that most Italian cars
have the steering wheel placed high and far away, while the pedals are
close. Car magazines used to joke that Italians must all be built like
apes, with long arms and torsos, and short legs. However, their bikes are
built just the opposite. Maybe all the long legged Italians become
cyclists, while the short legged ones become race car drivers. Who knows!
Matt O.
Richard Dal Farra
In article <34bbabaf...@news.ncal.verio.com>, dia...@aimnet.com
says...
>
> Both the Trek and Kestrel don't have particularly short top tubes.
>
<delete>
> I'd start by looking at the Cannondales.
>
Why does Cannondale get a reputation for having short top tubes? When
I measure my three year old R500, the figures come out as 53 cm for the
top tube, from centre of headset to centre of seat tube, and about 50
to 50.5 cm for the seat tube, centre of top tube to centre of bottom
bracket. Am I measuring in some non-standard way?
R. Dal Farra
Fred Sunderman
Colnago bikes have short top tubes.
-- Fred
Tom Kunich
Marc Langston
Richard Dal Farra wrote:
> Why does Cannondale get a reputation for having short top tubes?
I've wondered about this too. I have a '96 2.8 and an '82 Peugeot Super
Comp. The Peugeot's tt is a centimeter shorter for a frame with them
same stand-over height as the Cannondale's. I've read, too, about
"classic euro geometry" in magazines which suggest longer tt's, but
after recently sizing a Pinarello SLX, I found the exact same
measurements as my old Peugeot -- shorter tt than my Cannondale.
Dbear
Tom Kunich wrote:
>
> Uh, Colnagos have medium to long top tubes.
>
short. -Dbear-
David Balfoort
Tom Kunich wrote:
>
> In article <fwsund-ya02408000...@news.iamerica.net>,
> fws...@iamerica.net (Fred Sunderman) wrote:
> >
> > Colnago bikes have short top tubes.
>
>
Tom,
David
Chris Neary
mea...@astral.magic.ca (Richard Dal Farra) wrote:
>
> Why does Cannondale get a reputation for having short top tubes? When
>I measure my three year old R500, the figures come out as 53 cm for the
>top tube, from centre of headset to centre of seat tube, and about 50
>to 50.5 cm for the seat tube, centre of top tube to centre of bottom
>bracket. Am I measuring in some non-standard way?
My wife's six year old R600 is the only 48 cm bike she can ride, due to
the unusually short top tube.
Unfortunately newer C-dales have longer tubes than this.
Sonja Schellenberg
Dbear wrote:
> Tom Kunich wrote:
> >
> > Uh, Colnagos have medium to long top tubes.
> >
> Tom, I disagree. A 57cm(c-t) Colnago has a 55.3cm top tube. I call this
> short. -Dbear-
Couldn't it be the case that the different frames that are
available from Colnago have different geometries?
In a German bicycle magazine there was recently a review
of a few Italian road race bikes that are made from other
material than the traditional steel.
Their opinion was that they are not really bad, but that
there are better ones for the same price.
The Italians seem to have not yet gained enough experience
with the material.
So I'm having a closer look at American or northern Europe manufacturers.
I just have trouble finding geometry figures somewhere.
From the looks, data, reviews etc. I'm especially interested in
Principia, Muesing, Storck, Trek, Look, Kestrel.
I have the strange feeling, that the ones I like all have longer top
tubes.
Never ridden any of them.
Are the Kestrels still around? Haven't seen one for a while.
Thanks for all your informative answers!
Sonja
tabula
Sonja Schellenberg (Schell...@lhsystems.com) wrote:
: Dbear wrote:
:
: > Tom Kunich wrote:
: > >
: > > Uh, Colnagos have medium to long top tubes.
: > >
: > Tom, I disagree. A 57cm(c-t) Colnago has a 55.3cm top tube. I call this
: > short. -Dbear-
:
: Couldn't it be the case that the different frames that are
: available from Colnago have different geometries?
I have a hunch that the geometries that Tom and Dbear cite are from
Colnagos of different vintages. If I remember correctly, the late-70's
and early-80's frames had top tubes that were much longer than the ones
of more recent vintage.
-Ray
tab...@speakeasy.org
http://www.speakeasy.org/~tabula
Marc Langston
Sonja Schellenberg wrote:
> I just have trouble finding geometry figures somewhere.
Kestrel is still around. You can find their web site (which includes
frame dimenstions) and others, at:
Seems to me that you're looking at carbon fiber frames. You could also
consider Aegis and Calfee Design. Both have good reputations, have web
sites, and offer custom sizing. How you'd get one of these frames in
Germany could be a problem, though. Perhaps this is a good excuse for a
vacation in the States ;)
Marc
Rinards
In article <34BDFDC5...@lhsystems.com>, Sonja Schellenberg
<Schell...@lhsystems.com> writes:
>Are the Kestrels still around? Haven't seen one for a while.
Try http://www.kestrel-usa.com/
or link there from my home page.
Damon Rinard
Damon Rinard's Home Page:
http://members.aol.com/rinards/
Jeff Bernhard
Marc Langston (mlan...@oavax.csuchico.edu) wrote:
Kestrel, which requires expensive molds. Custom seems unlikely if so.
--
Jeffrey Bernhard at Concurrent Computer Corp. (expressing his opinion only!)
Jeff.B...@mail.ccur.com Voice: (954) 973-5496 Fax: (954) 977-5580
PHILMIX
Italian cars have the 'Gorrilla" driving position (wheel far away) because, in
Italy, drivers grip the steering wheel at the bottom. Try it and see.
Phil Brown