Any harm in retorqueing screws
Andre Jute
None of my torque wrenches went that low but on Friday I bought a bike
specific BBB Torque Fix kit of 2-24Nm wrench and set of bits.
Though I took good care to use only appropriate-sized levers and
force, some bolts on the bike were possibly tightened a spot too much
in the interrim. Only one actually broke and that was a tiny seatpost
clamp in the hands of the LBS during the first warranty inspection. I
replaced it with its double-bolted big brother.
****However, the question does arise: What harm can be done by
releasing all the threads that were handled and retorqueing them
correctly?****
Andre Jute
A little inaccuracy sometimes saves tons of explanation. --H.H.Munro
("Saki")(1870-1916)
Visit Jute on Amps at http://members.lycos.co.uk/fiultra/
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someone
> My Utopia Kranich has much lower torque ratings than my other bikes.
> None of my torque wrenches went that low but on Friday I bought a bike
> specific BBB Torque Fix kit of 2-24Nm wrench and set of bits.
>
> Though I took good care to use only appropriate-sized levers and
> force, some bolts on the bike were possibly tightened a spot too much
> in the interrim. Only one actually broke and that was a tiny seatpost
> clamp in the hands of the LBS during the first warranty inspection. I
> replaced it with its double-bolted big brother.
>
> ****However, the question does arise: What harm can be done by
> releasing all the threads that were handled and retorqueing them
> correctly?****
>
If the bolts have been overtensioned they may already be damaged.
Simply attempting to unscrew a damaged bolt may snap it. Retorquing
may also snap it.
RonSonic
All actually true, but there's only one way to find out, loosen, inspect and
retorque. And for myself the "inspect" phase begins with and _may_ end with how
the bolt/nut/fixture feels and reacts while loosening and retightening it.
If I feel/see a bolt loosen appropriately and everything connected to it relaxes
in proportion to the number of turns and the threads are smooth under the hand,
I probably won't look further. Then on retightening, do the threads turn freely
until slack is taken up - once everything is mated does the torque reading /
tension on the wrench build in a smooth linear feeling way. I'd leave it at
that.
That's all subjective, but it worked for over a hundred years for a lot of
people with more or less mechanical deftness.
--
Oh damn. There's that annoying blog. Again. http://dumbbikeblog.blogspot.com
landotter
With normal and not heroically light bike parts, you're right on. I
rarely forget to put a little dab of grease on all threads as well.
Nate Nagel
I think that the only thing that I bothered to torque with a torque
wrench on my bike was the crank arm bolts, but then again, I *did* just
have to helicoil a rack mount... (I don't think that the two facts are
connected, but still.)
I probably would use a torque wrench on anything related to handlebars
though...
nate
--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel
someone
Crank arms for me as well. After torquing correctly for a second
time, I used to susequently mark the bolt position and record the
number of turns to remove the bolt on it, red for right, blue for
left. The crank position on the spindle was also marked. I leave
them on now and oil the bearings from the centre of the axle. Because
of the grease I placed in the bracket, (a calcium based) when it
starts dryingout, there is an appreciable 'free' resistance on the
cranks so I oil them then. A listen with a mechanics stethescope
confirms the bearing is not contaminated, I like to keep them that
way so they stay assembled now. Any dirt build up around the spindle
is either left or cut away with a knife making sure the dirt is
dragged away from the bearing and none pushed in.
Andre Jute
Thanks for a method.
Let me rephrase the question: Should I leave well enough alone, or
should I investigate and retorque now? -- AJ
PS I worked on my old steel MTB for a dozen years without ever laying
a torque wrench on it, and my LBS doesn't even own a torque wrench; is
it possible we're getting altogether too tender about our bikes?
Tom Kunich
news:e8abd986-2f80-4827...@v15g2000prn.googlegroups.com...
>
> PS I worked on my old steel MTB for a dozen years without ever laying
> a torque wrench on it, and my LBS doesn't even own a torque wrench; is
> it possible we're getting altogether too tender about our bikes?
Of course. But remember that Americans no longer work with their hands and
consequently don't have a feel for how much torque tightens and how much
breaks. Hence they tend to greatly under-tighten or over-tighten.
Andre Jute
Ha! On a new bike, of course the components one rebolted before the
suitable torque wrench arrived (in this case eight months later) were
connected with the steering: the preload on the headset, the stem to
steerer bolts, the handlebar to stem bolts. Not to forget the nuts
that replace the quick releases, perhaps even more dangerous if one
were to twist off a hollow sliver of steel.
As I just wrote to Ron, I worked a dozen years on my old steel MTB
without ever laying a torque wrench on it -- and now I have three
torque wrenches to cover various ranges required by my bikes, none of
them actually carbon. I think we're going over the top a bit...
Mind you, in my impatient youth, for lack of a particular tool, I once
bolloxed not one but three Allison aero-engines I had in my Gordon's
500 boat. Fortunately I had spare engines (back then you could get
Allisons new on the pallet free for taking them away if you knew where
to ask) and didn't miss a single heat.
Andre Jute
Refusing to pull the blanket over my head
Andre Jute
> "Andre Jute" <fiult...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
"Torque wrenches are never needed for bicycle work, although they can
be a useful training aid for inexperienced mechanics who haven't
learned the feel of a properly-tightened fastener." -- Sheldon Brown
someone
> "Andre Jute" <fiult...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
I've given my description before for bike fasteners, you must use a
light lubricant on the threads, not grease. Use the appropriate
specific hand tool for the part and tourque up until you can fell the
some sticking. Tightening so there is a change in elastic response is
frought (sp?) with danger for the unwary. No grease works best.
RonSonic
>Thanks for a method.
>
>Let me rephrase the question: Should I leave well enough alone, or
>should I investigate and retorque now? -- AJ
Next time it's on the lift, or you feel like it.
>PS I worked on my old steel MTB for a dozen years without ever laying
>a torque wrench on it, and my LBS doesn't even own a torque wrench; is
>it possible we're getting altogether too tender about our bikes?
There used to not be torque specs for bikes. They simply weren't published and
people asking for them were told to develop a touch. Stems and bars were
expected to be just tight enough to creak under the hardest sprint and give way
in a crash. Cranks and related were tightened until nothing creaked or moved.
Campagnolo made wrenches with a radius that cut into a mechanic's hand just so
when it was tightened sufficiently.
There's stuff I break out the torque wrench for and stuff I don't. Things I
haven't used before almost always get it, when I got my first ISIS bottom
bracket and my introduction to threadless headsets for example.
It is nice to not have to wonder.
Ben C
Fraught. I think grease on the threads works well. Often things stick
before you're really tightening them properly, which will confuse a
torque wrench as much as it does your feel for how tight something is.
Andre Jute
> On 2009-09-07, someone <thirty-...@live.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 7 Sep, 03:42, "Tom Kunich" <tkun...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> >> "Andre Jute" <fiult...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> >>news:e8abd986-2f80-4827...@v15g2000prn.googlegroups.com...
>
> >> > PS I worked on my old steel MTB for a dozen years without ever laying
> >> > a torque wrench on it, and my LBS doesn't even own a torque wrench; is
> >> > it possible we're getting altogether too tender about our bikes?
>
> >> Of course. But remember that Americans no longer work with their hands and
> >> consequently don't have a feel for how much torque tightens and how much
> >> breaks. Hence they tend to greatly under-tighten or over-tighten.
>
> > I've given my description before for bike fasteners, you must use a
> > light lubricant on the threads, not grease. Use the appropriate
> > specific hand tool for the part and tourque up until you can fell the
> > some sticking. Tightening so there is a change in elastic response is
> > frought (sp?) with danger for the unwary. No grease works best.
> Fraught. I think grease on the threads works well.
I don't open the posts of this Trevor Jefferies aka "someone". He lies
on bicycle matters to satisfy his personal animosities; even besides
that he is useless and confused.
> Often things stick
> before you're really tightening them properly, which will confuse a
> torque wrench as much as it does your feel for how tight something is.
Torque ratings are really only rough indicators. There is a
deleterious modern tendency to max out everything to the highest
permissible spec. But a torque rating, unless given as a range, is a
*maximum*. The wrench-wielder is supposed to watch the mating surfaces
and to stop wrenching when the mating and tension is good, which is
generally (with modern machined surfaces) at the *lowest* permissible
rating.
Andre Jute
Mmm. Now that's the sort of thing that you don't read in a book, which
is what the Usenet when it works is good for.
>Cranks and related were tightened until nothing creaked or moved.
> Campagnolo made wrenches with a radius that cut into a mechanic's hand just so
> when it was tightened sufficiently.
Now that's clever ergonomics!
> There's stuff I break out the torque wrench for and stuff I don't. Things I
> haven't used before almost always get it, when I got my first ISIS bottom
> bracket and my introduction to threadless headsets for example.
>
> It is nice to not have to wonder.
>
> --
>
> Oh damn. There's that annoying blog. Again. http://dumbbikeblog.blogspot.com
This was a good read, besides being helpful. Thanks, Ron.
Andre Jute
Get a bicycle. You will not regret it. If you live -- Mark Twain
someone
> I don't open the posts of this Trevor Jefferies aka "someone". He lies
> on bicycle matters to satisfy his personal animosities; even besides
> that he is useless and confused.
>
I bear no grudges. I have assisted you on numerous occasions and you
have failed to repay the debt despite specific requests by me. No
doubt you have treated others in the same manner and it shows in the
minimal response that you do get. Your attitude stinks. You can't
help being a fool but I cannot continue with this charade. Either
show some courage and apologise or remain the paltry fool you have so
far presented yourself as.
datakoll
>
> "Torque wrenches are never needed for bicycle work, although they can
> be a useful training aid for inexperienced mechanics who haven't
> learned the feel of a properly-tightened fastener." -- Sheldon Brown
the drill is take a used bedframe, drill and mount bolts/nuts washers
- torque
loctite anti-seize linseed SHELLAC ! to see what.
commenst are welcomed...
I assume outside XMAS all LBS bikes are carefully tuned before
delivery.
That is, Shimano hubs are not overtight like MO hubs are but retorqued
On the other hand my observation is many LBS people are mean spritied,
under payed and some cases not up to speed.
But anyone can make a mistake while taking a brake to suck some good
weed or whatever then bolt BC maybe left original and incorrect...
maybe leaving ya'll with a face fulla gravel.