Latest test tires TOUR magazine

763 views
Skip to first unread message

Lou Holtman

unread,
Aug 27, 2021, 12:29:06 PMAug 27
to
Just read the latest tire test in TOUR magazine. They tested 28 mm tires at 35 km/hr and total weight of 85 kg. They asked a number of tire manufactures to send in their high end tire and a medium end tire. The medium end tire cost on average half to two third the cost of their high end tire. I found the differences remarkable. Everyone that uses a power meter knows that increasing average power with 10-15 watts is more than significant. Again the Continental GP5000 is a no brainer.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/RNAuxNK8XZu4wmNQA

Lou, life is too short to ride shitty tires.

jbeattie

unread,
Aug 27, 2021, 12:58:12 PMAug 27
to
Didn't they test any Michelin? That's weird.

-- Jay Beattie.



Lou Holtman

unread,
Aug 27, 2021, 1:04:16 PMAug 27
to
It is what it is. Maybe because Michelins are not very popular over here. I don't know.

Lou

Frank Krygowski

unread,
Aug 27, 2021, 1:13:39 PMAug 27
to
AFAIK our cycling magazines seldom have such data. I'm a bit jealous.

Was the rolling resistance test a standard rotating drum test?

--
- Frank Krygowski

sms

unread,
Aug 27, 2021, 1:14:07 PMAug 27
to
I've moved to all Schwalbe, good to see how well the Pro One did.

Lou Holtman

unread,
Aug 27, 2021, 1:23:23 PMAug 27
to
You would like that magazine. In every issue also nice travel stories.

Lou

Lou Holtman

unread,
Aug 27, 2021, 1:24:33 PMAug 27
to
Also a popular tire here. They also make very good gravel tires.

Lou

Roger Merriman

unread,
Aug 27, 2021, 2:10:41 PMAug 27
to
How are they measuring? I agree 10/15 watts is fairly huge.

Roger Merriman.

sms

unread,
Aug 27, 2021, 2:19:11 PMAug 27
to
I don't know about Continental, but Schwalbe has been struggling to keep
up with demand for tires and tubes, with popular products being out of
stock for months, then briefly becoming available before going out of
stock again.

Lou Holtman

unread,
Aug 27, 2021, 3:10:43 PMAug 27
to

Axel Reichert

unread,
Aug 27, 2021, 4:27:20 PMAug 27
to
sms <scharf...@geemail.com> writes:

> I've moved to all Schwalbe, good to see how well the Pro One did.

Runner-up after the Conti 5000, IIRC.

Axel

jbeattie

unread,
Aug 27, 2021, 7:33:12 PMAug 27
to
BTW, this is the test: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgOUsjzkT5I&ab_channel=TOURRennrad-Magazin

Actually the Specialized Turbo cotton had lower RR than the Conti GP5000 on rough pavement and apparently a watt or so less on smooth pavement, but the winner over-all is the Schwalbe Pro One -- if you want a tire with good grip (which I do). But which Pro One? There are three of them -- tube, tubeless and TT. https://www.schwalbetires.com/bike_tires/racing_tires They're all wickedly expensive in the US.

My German is rudimentary at best. Were these all tubed tires? And I assume that all tests were run with the same tubes?

-- Jay Beattie.



James

unread,
Aug 28, 2021, 12:09:41 AMAug 28
to
All those brands and a more here.

https://www.bicyclerollingresistance.com/road-bike-reviews

--
JS

Lou Holtman

unread,
Aug 28, 2021, 2:55:16 AMAug 28
to
Well they also judged the tires on 'Pannensicherheit', 'Trockenhaftung' und 'Gewicht'. (flat resistance, grip (dry) and weight. According to their rules the Continental GP5000 was the 'Testsieger' (winner). The Schwalbe Pro One was the close runner up. All the tests were performed with 137 gr Butyl tube (heavy), 5.5 bar, 35 km/hr and 85 kg weight.
Here are all results. The lower the number, the better the tire:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/28KExMfx8jo6HdmJ6

Lou

Frank Krygowski

unread,
Aug 28, 2021, 11:14:06 AMAug 28
to
On 8/28/2021 2:55 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:
> On Saturday, August 28, 2021 at 1:33:12 AM UTC+2, jbeattie wrote:
>> On Friday, August 27, 2021 at 1:27:20 PM UTC-7, Axel Reichert wrote:
>>> sms <scharf...@geemail.com> writes:
>>>
>>>> I've moved to all Schwalbe, good to see how well the Pro One did.
>>> Runner-up after the Conti 5000, IIRC.
>>>
>>> Axel
>> BTW, this is the test: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgOUsjzkT5I&ab_channel=TOURRennrad-Magazin ...

Interesting. But ...

> ... All the tests were performed with 137 gr Butyl tube (heavy), 5.5 bar, 35 km/hr and 85 kg weight.
> Here are all results. The lower the number, the better the tire:
>
> https://photos.app.goo.gl/28KExMfx8jo6HdmJ6

The 35 km/hr tells me it was a rotating drum test.


--
- Frank Krygowski

Tom Kunich

unread,
Aug 28, 2021, 11:14:33 AMAug 28
to
I don't know where it is now but the tests I read showed a rather startling advantage to the Vittoria Corsa G+. Almost half of what a Continental GP5000 was.

Frank Krygowski

unread,
Aug 28, 2021, 11:17:50 AMAug 28
to
Ah, I think I see. They measure the _force_ of rolling resistance using
the pendulum rig, then multiply that force (probably assuming it's
constant) with the assumed 35 km/hr velocity to get the power lost in
Watts at that speed.

--
- Frank Krygowski

Frank Krygowski

unread,
Aug 28, 2021, 11:43:24 AMAug 28
to
This blog is interesting and relevant:
https://blog.silca.cc/part-4b-rolling-resistance-and-impedance


--
- Frank Krygowski

Ralph Barone

unread,
Aug 28, 2021, 2:40:56 PMAug 28
to
As an electrical engineer, I don’t like their use of the term impedance.
Impedance implies a combination of lossy (resistive) and lossless
(reactive) elements, while this is just describing two different lossy
elements which combine to produce a non-linear loss.

Joerg

unread,
Aug 28, 2021, 5:37:11 PMAug 28
to
No, no, Impedance is a rock band:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=492iAQU9aJY

And another in Russia but less rock:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMyKUZTDwjo

--
Regards, Joerg (also an EE)

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

Joerg

unread,
Aug 28, 2021, 5:45:10 PMAug 28
to
On 8/28/21 8:14 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Friday, August 27, 2021 at 4:33:12 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
>> On Friday, August 27, 2021 at 1:27:20 PM UTC-7, Axel Reichert wrote:
>>> sms <scharf...@geemail.com> writes:
>>>
>>>> I've moved to all Schwalbe, good to see how well the Pro One did.
>>> Runner-up after the Conti 5000, IIRC.
>>>
>>> Axel
>> BTW, this is the test: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgOUsjzkT5I&ab_channel=TOURRennrad-Magazin
>>
>> Actually the Specialized Turbo cotton had lower RR than the Conti GP5000 on rough pavement and apparently a watt or so less on smooth pavement, but the winner over-all is the Schwalbe Pro One -- if you want a tire with good grip (which I do). But which Pro One? There are three of them -- tube, tubeless and TT. https://www.schwalbetires.com/bike_tires/racing_tires They're all wickedly expensive in the US.


Bicycle tires in general are outlandishly pricey when compared to motor
vehicle tires on a dollar per mile basis.


>>
>> My German is rudimentary at best. Were these all tubed tires? And I assume that all tests were run with the same tubes?
>
> I don't know where it is now but the tests I read showed a rather startling advantage to the Vittoria Corsa G+. Almost half of what a Continental GP5000 was.
>

To me the most important factor is dollars per mile. I get 1200mi out of
a Vittoria Zaffiro. Always waiting for a sale, I usually buy them under
$20. So about $0.016/mile. That's for the rear tire, the front last much
longer, about 4x.

The 2nd important parameter is side wall quality. While I did milk
2500mi out of a Conti Gatorskin (alas, at $45 a pop) three out of four
prematurely dropped out with side wall failure. One had less than 1000mi
on it. That's when I gave up on them.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

Lou Holtman

unread,
Aug 28, 2021, 6:19:42 PMAug 28
to
To me the least important part is price per km. The most important part is riding quality, after that flat resistance and durability. Replaced a 32 mm GP5000 after 5000 km and no flats on my gravel bike (road use). They cost here €40 for a 32 mm version. That is €0.008/km. Not that it matters but for that kind of money I am not going to ride shitty tires.

Lou

Roger Merriman

unread,
Aug 28, 2021, 7:09:59 PMAug 28
to
I’m far from convinced that for the end user that drum tests are useful in
any way.

Even with all the variables seeing how they perform on the road, either
with or without power meter. Is a more useful metric I have the added
handling being a gravel bike ie how much grip etc.

Roger Merriman

Frank Krygowski

unread,
Aug 28, 2021, 10:22:38 PMAug 28
to
I can't imagine worrying about the per-mile expense of bike equipment.

--
- Frank Krygowski

John B.

unread,
Aug 28, 2021, 10:36:16 PMAug 28
to
I can only imagine that after whacking out the $12,000 for the new
Mercedes bicycle one might be a bit short, thus the necessary
economizing on tires (:-)

--
Cheers,

John B.

Lou Holtman

unread,
Aug 29, 2021, 7:47:22 AMAug 29
to
Gee, that bike made quite an impression on you. I'm sure Joerg doesn't own one.

Lou

Roger Merriman

unread,
Aug 29, 2021, 9:23:48 AMAug 29
to
Joerg <ne...@analogconsultants.com> wrote:
> On 8/28/21 8:14 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> On Friday, August 27, 2021 at 4:33:12 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
>>> On Friday, August 27, 2021 at 1:27:20 PM UTC-7, Axel Reichert wrote:
>>>> sms <scharf...@geemail.com> writes:
>>>>
>>>>> I've moved to all Schwalbe, good to see how well the Pro One did.
>>>> Runner-up after the Conti 5000, IIRC.
>>>>
>>>> Axel
>>> BTW, this is the test:
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgOUsjzkT5I&ab_channel=TOURRennrad-Magazin
>>>
>>> Actually the Specialized Turbo cotton had lower RR than the Conti
>>> GP5000 on rough pavement and apparently a watt or so less on smooth
>>> pavement, but the winner over-all is the Schwalbe Pro One -- if you
>>> want a tire with good grip (which I do). But which Pro One? There are
>>> three of them -- tube, tubeless and TT.
>>> https://www.schwalbetires.com/bike_tires/racing_tires They're all
>>> wickedly expensive in the US.
>
>
> Bicycle tires in general are outlandishly pricey when compared to motor
> vehicle tires on a dollar per mile basis.
>
Your not comparing like for like. Car etc tires are generally equivalent to
commute types, road/MTB etc are performance focused, you can buy
performance focused car tires but these will empty ones wallet, and wear at
a terrifying rate!
>>>
>>> My German is rudimentary at best. Were these all tubed tires? And I
>>> assume that all tests were run with the same tubes?
>>
>> I don't know where it is now but the tests I read showed a rather
>> startling advantage to the Vittoria Corsa G+. Almost half of what a
>> Continental GP5000 was.
>>
>
> To me the most important factor is dollars per mile. I get 1200mi out of
> a Vittoria Zaffiro. Always waiting for a sale, I usually buy them under
> $20. So about $0.016/mile. That's for the rear tire, the front last much
> longer, about 4x.
>
> The 2nd important parameter is side wall quality. While I did milk
> 2500mi out of a Conti Gatorskin (alas, at $45 a pop) three out of four
> prematurely dropped out with side wall failure. One had less than 1000mi
> on it. That's when I gave up on them.
>
Roger Merriman


AMuzi

unread,
Aug 29, 2021, 10:44:51 AMAug 29
to
Great argument for 12 speed chain!

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


Frank Krygowski

unread,
Aug 29, 2021, 11:16:45 AMAug 29
to
Pfft. I'm waiting for 15 speeds in a 1x system. You guys bought too early.


--
- Frank Krygowski

Jeff Liebermann

unread,
Aug 29, 2021, 11:42:03 AMAug 29
to
On Sun, 29 Aug 2021 11:16:41 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>Pfft. I'm waiting for 15 speeds in a 1x system. You guys bought too early.

Would you settle for 13 speeds in 1x?
<https://www.ceramicspeed.com/en/cycling/d3>
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjjTDHXby3M>


--
Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Tom Kunich

unread,
Aug 29, 2021, 11:46:35 AMAug 29
to
On Sunday, August 29, 2021 at 8:42:03 AM UTC-7, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Sun, 29 Aug 2021 11:16:41 -0400, Frank Krygowski
> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
> >Pfft. I'm waiting for 15 speeds in a 1x system. You guys bought too early.
> Would you settle for 13 speeds in 1x?
> <https://www.ceramicspeed.com/en/cycling/d3>
> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjjTDHXby3M>

That setup had lower power transfer, faster wear and higher weight.

AMuzi

unread,
Aug 29, 2021, 12:41:45 PMAug 29
to
On 8/29/2021 10:41 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Sun, 29 Aug 2021 11:16:41 -0400, Frank Krygowski
> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>> Pfft. I'm waiting for 15 speeds in a 1x system. You guys bought too early.
>
> Would you settle for 13 speeds in 1x?
> <https://www.ceramicspeed.com/en/cycling/d3>
> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjjTDHXby3M>
>
>


pfffft.
There are actual Italian products:
https://www.campagnolo.com/US/en/Mechanical_Groupsets/ekar/gravel2

Tom Kunich

unread,
Aug 29, 2021, 12:57:52 PMAug 29
to
On Sunday, August 29, 2021 at 9:41:45 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> On 8/29/2021 10:41 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> > On Sun, 29 Aug 2021 11:16:41 -0400, Frank Krygowski
> > <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >
> >> Pfft. I'm waiting for 15 speeds in a 1x system. You guys bought too early.
> >
> > Would you settle for 13 speeds in 1x?
> > <https://www.ceramicspeed.com/en/cycling/d3>
> > <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjjTDHXby3M>
> >
> >
> pfffft.
> There are actual Italian products:
> https://www.campagnolo.com/US/en/Mechanical_Groupsets/ekar/gravel2

https://www.bicyclerollingresistance.com/road-bike-reviews

Frank Krygowski

unread,
Aug 29, 2021, 1:49:48 PMAug 29
to
On 8/29/2021 12:41 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> On 8/29/2021 10:41 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>> On Sun, 29 Aug 2021 11:16:41 -0400, Frank Krygowski
>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Pfft. I'm waiting for 15 speeds in a 1x system. You guys bought too
>>> early.
>>
>> Would you settle for 13 speeds in 1x?
>> <https://www.ceramicspeed.com/en/cycling/d3>
>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjjTDHXby3M>
>>
>>
>
>
> pfffft.
> There are actual Italian products:
> https://www.campagnolo.com/US/en/Mechanical_Groupsets/ekar/gravel2

Still too few cogs.

And what's with the crude tooth count increments?
9-10-11-12-13-14-16-18-20-23-27-31-36
A sudden jump from one tooth difference all the way up to TWO tooth
differences?

When, oh when, will they finally give 1.5 tooth differences between
adjacent cogs?

But I admit the 44-9 combination is tempting. That's like 130+ gear
inches, to gain additional speed during free fall.

--
- Frank Krygowski

AMuzi

unread,
Aug 29, 2021, 2:05:00 PMAug 29
to
Seems intuitively a typical driven gear tooth progression
with a tip of the hat to your half tooth comment. 9-1/2t is
exactly where that would help!

I did not plot it but as you well know linear change of
tooth count gives nonlinear progression for gearing.

From 9t to 10t is roughly 11%, 12t to 13t is 8-1/2%, 25t to
26t is 4%, 30t to 31t is 3.33, etc.

(off the top of my head numbers; a gear chart is handy for this)

AMuzi

unread,
Aug 29, 2021, 2:50:58 PMAug 29
to
On 8/29/2021 12:49 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
I dropped that into my spreadsheet for gearing with 700-50C
in meters:

11.073
9.966
9.060
8.305
7.666
7.119
6.229
5.537
4.983
4.333
3.691
3.215
2.768

Classic race bike gearing when Mr Beattie and I were young
and beautiful was about 4 to 8 meters for comparison.
(700-23C with 52-42 and 13~21)

Tom Kunich

unread,
Aug 29, 2021, 3:29:09 PMAug 29
to
Don't you now feel like you're explaining air to a fish?

Frank Krygowski

unread,
Aug 29, 2021, 4:00:38 PMAug 29
to
Mine was 52-47 hchainrings, 14-30 or so freewheel (once I changed it) so
same high, slightly lower low. About 8 meters to 3.4 meters.

The first "ten speed" I ever bought came with those half-step
chainrings, but a freewheel that wasted lots of gears as duplicates.
Once I learned a little bit, I bought freewheels that made perfect use
of the steps, with wide range and no duplicates. That was when Nashbar
would sell any freewheel cogs one wanted.

Back in my Fortran programming days (before spreadsheets) I wrote a
program to print out a gear table and logarithmic plot of gears when
given chainring and cog tooth counts. Fred DeLong got a copy, and was
politely thankful.

--
- Frank Krygowski

jbeattie

unread,
Aug 29, 2021, 4:45:10 PMAug 29
to
Do you mean Bike Warehouse? When was your first ten speed? Nashbar was like '81.

I only knew Bike Warehouse as a mail-order company with stock freewheels, and the custom freewheel thing was something I had to get at PAB or a few other local shops with peg boards filled with Regina cogs. However, by '80, Bike Nashbar was selling single cogs for freehubs, e.g. https://bulgier.net/pics/bike/catalogs/BikeWarehouse-80/BW07.html My first freehub was a 7sp Dura Ace with stack 'em up Uniglide cogs. It was a great system -- but abandoned. That's when I shifted to Ultegra. With current OTC wide-range cassettes, like a 12-30, there really is no need for a custom cassette anymore. Most of the gear range is covered, particularly for someone who doesn't care about jumps. When you only have five cog choices (rather than 11, 12 or 13), you certainly have to be more strategic.

-- Jay Beattie.


John B.

unread,
Aug 29, 2021, 6:27:30 PMAug 29
to
Perhaps the epitome of "conspicuous consumption" :-) But more to the
point, how much riding would one have to do to achieve a $0.016 cost
per mile :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

John B.

unread,
Aug 29, 2021, 6:33:20 PMAug 29
to
On Sun, 29 Aug 2021 11:41:44 -0500, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 8/29/2021 10:41 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>> On Sun, 29 Aug 2021 11:16:41 -0400, Frank Krygowski
>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Pfft. I'm waiting for 15 speeds in a 1x system. You guys bought too early.
>>
>> Would you settle for 13 speeds in 1x?
>> <https://www.ceramicspeed.com/en/cycling/d3>
>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjjTDHXby3M>
>>
>>
>
>
>pfffft.
>There are actual Italian products:
>https://www.campagnolo.com/US/en/Mechanical_Groupsets/ekar/gravel2

Coupled with a triple chain ring that should satisfy most folks for
the next year or so (:-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

John B.

unread,
Aug 29, 2021, 7:03:38 PMAug 29
to
On Sun, 29 Aug 2021 13:49:43 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>On 8/29/2021 12:41 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 8/29/2021 10:41 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>>> On Sun, 29 Aug 2021 11:16:41 -0400, Frank Krygowski
>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Pfft. I'm waiting for 15 speeds in a 1x system. You guys bought too
>>>> early.
>>>
>>> Would you settle for 13 speeds in 1x?
>>> <https://www.ceramicspeed.com/en/cycling/d3>
>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjjTDHXby3M>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> pfffft.
>> There are actual Italian products:
>> https://www.campagnolo.com/US/en/Mechanical_Groupsets/ekar/gravel2
>
>Still too few cogs.
>
>And what's with the crude tooth count increments?
>9-10-11-12-13-14-16-18-20-23-27-31-36
>A sudden jump from one tooth difference all the way up to TWO tooth
>differences?
>
>When, oh when, will they finally give 1.5 tooth differences between
>adjacent cogs?
>
>But I admit the 44-9 combination is tempting. That's like 130+ gear
>inches, to gain additional speed during free fall.

At these tremendous speeds shouldn't one begin to worry about
coefficient of friction? After all, down hill, 100 rpm, 130+ gearing
and 19mm tires... and someone backs out of their driveway?
--
Cheers,

John B.

Frank Krygowski

unread,
Aug 29, 2021, 9:29:34 PMAug 29
to
Yes, it was Bike Warehouse back then. My first "ten speed" was 1972.

> Nashbar was like '81.

Yes, about then. Arni Nashbar explained to me and my friends why the
name change was needed. He said he was reluctant, but his lawyers told
him Bike Warehouse was too generic to be defensible as a trademark.

> I only knew Bike Warehouse as a mail-order company with stock freewheels, and the custom freewheel thing was something I had to get at PAB or a few other local shops with peg boards filled with Regina cogs.

I was still living down south, so this was before 1980. I remember being
on the phone with a BW catalog sales person specifying something very
unusual for my wife - four close spaced cogs, plus a big bail out cog.
He kept asking "Are you _sure_ that's what you want?" I was, and it
worked well for her.

> When you only have five cog choices (rather than 11, 12 or 13), you certainly have to be more strategic.

Agreed. I doubt very many people do logarithmic gear plots these days.

- Frank Krygowski

Frank Krygowski

unread,
Aug 29, 2021, 9:30:22 PMAug 29
to
... unless fashions change again!


--
- Frank Krygowski

Jeff Liebermann

unread,
Aug 29, 2021, 10:16:33 PMAug 29
to
Linear plots.
<https://www.bikecad.ca/gearing_data>

Linear or semi-log plots.
<https://mike-sherman.github.io/shift/>
Click on the "all in one" tab.
<https://mike-sherman.github.io/shift/shift_credits.html>

Let us do some plotting comrades.

pH

unread,
Aug 29, 2021, 10:45:00 PMAug 29
to
On 2021-08-27, Lou Holtman <lou.h...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Just read the latest tire test in TOUR magazine. They tested 28 mm tires
at 35 km/hr and total weight of 85 kg. They asked a number of tire
manufactures to send in their high end tire and a medium end tire. The
medium end tire cost on average half to two third the cost of their high
end tire. I found the differences remarkable. Everyone that uses a power
meter knows that increasing average power with 10-15 watts is more than
significant. Again the Continental GP5000 is a no brainer.
> https://photos.app.goo.gl/RNAuxNK8XZu4wmNQA
>
> Lou, life is too short to ride shitty tires.

Yes, but the selection seems to grow smaller by the year.

We can only hope and pray that this foolish 700C fad dies away and we return
to the 27" standard that God intended.

Satan's hand is never still, it seems.

Wish I could find some nice Avocet's.....Hi, Jobst!....

pH in Aptos

jbeattie

unread,
Aug 29, 2021, 11:54:19 PMAug 29
to
Buy some 700C rims, and the world will by your tire oyster. I still have some Campy drop bolt(s) sitting around that I will sell you for a very reasonable price. There current production tires that are much nicer than the Avocets, although they were good tires for the time. I thought the contemporary Michelin SuperComp HDs were much better, and those tires are miles behind the best current tires -- except maybe for wet-weather grip in the lowest RR tires.

-- Jay Beattie.


John B.

unread,
Aug 30, 2021, 1:23:12 AMAug 30
to
On Sun, 29 Aug 2021 21:30:18 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>On 8/29/2021 6:33 PM, John B. wrote:
>> On Sun, 29 Aug 2021 11:41:44 -0500, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>
>>> On 8/29/2021 10:41 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 29 Aug 2021 11:16:41 -0400, Frank Krygowski
>>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Pfft. I'm waiting for 15 speeds in a 1x system. You guys bought too early.
>>>>
>>>> Would you settle for 13 speeds in 1x?
>>>> <https://www.ceramicspeed.com/en/cycling/d3>
>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjjTDHXby3M>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> pfffft.
>>> There are actual Italian products:
>>> https://www.campagnolo.com/US/en/Mechanical_Groupsets/ekar/gravel2
>>
>> Coupled with a triple chain ring that should satisfy most folks for
>> the next year or so (:-)
>
>... unless fashions change again!

Well, then you go for broke - A Shimano 11 speed rear wheel coupled
with a triple crank chain wheels.

"Oh, I see you've got one of those new 12 speed bikes. Have a look at
my 33 speed" (:-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

sms

unread,
Aug 30, 2021, 11:16:43 AMAug 30
to
God wanted us to measure in cubits. 1 cubit = 444.25 mm = 17.49 inches.

Tom Kunich

unread,
Aug 30, 2021, 11:45:11 AMAug 30
to
After Vittoria moved their operations to Asia I would only buy Veloflex which were the Italian workers who originally composes Vittoria but they simply couldn't keep up with the original company in tire technology. The Corsa G series do not get flats except under exceptional circumstances and they wear very oddly - the surface tread does not wear away - the rubber under them do so you have to be careful that these tires do not wear out because there isn't any visible clues.

But then I started using Michelin and I am completely sold on the Pro series which is Pro4 presently. I mostly use the Power series since the Pro's are sold out all of the time. The Power doesn't have the traction of the Pro's but wear better and are probably more flat resistant. And the rolling resistance isn't so much higher than the Vittoria Corsa G that you notice it.

Ralph Barone

unread,
Aug 30, 2021, 3:27:07 PMAug 30
to
The problem is that every manufacturer’s cubit is a different length, and
it changes depending on who’s working on the QC bench that day.

AMuzi

unread,
Aug 30, 2021, 4:08:53 PMAug 30
to
Those sold well 6~8 years a go but 3x11 systems just dropped
off the earth since.

Joerg

unread,
Aug 30, 2021, 6:43:04 PMAug 30
to
On 8/29/21 6:23 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
> Joerg <ne...@analogconsultants.com> wrote:
>> On 8/28/21 8:14 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>> On Friday, August 27, 2021 at 4:33:12 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
>>>> On Friday, August 27, 2021 at 1:27:20 PM UTC-7, Axel Reichert wrote:
>>>>> sms <scharf...@geemail.com> writes:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I've moved to all Schwalbe, good to see how well the Pro One did.
>>>>> Runner-up after the Conti 5000, IIRC.
>>>>>
>>>>> Axel
>>>> BTW, this is the test:
>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgOUsjzkT5I&ab_channel=TOURRennrad-Magazin
>>>>
>>>> Actually the Specialized Turbo cotton had lower RR than the Conti
>>>> GP5000 on rough pavement and apparently a watt or so less on smooth
>>>> pavement, but the winner over-all is the Schwalbe Pro One -- if you
>>>> want a tire with good grip (which I do). But which Pro One? There are
>>>> three of them -- tube, tubeless and TT.
>>>> https://www.schwalbetires.com/bike_tires/racing_tires They're all
>>>> wickedly expensive in the US.
>>
>>
>> Bicycle tires in general are outlandishly pricey when compared to motor
>> vehicle tires on a dollar per mile basis.
>>
> Your not comparing like for like. Car etc tires are generally equivalent to
> commute types, road/MTB etc are performance focused, you can buy
> performance focused car tires but these will empty ones wallet, and wear at
> a terrifying rate!


That may be but why then is hardly any cycling publication more geared
towards the utility rider? Many of us simply want to get from A to B. On
time, not late and with dirty hands from fixing another flat.

Anyhow, I found that lower cost tires can be quite reliable. In my case
the ones made in Thailand. Yeah, I might lose 20-30 Microseconds through
a curve versus the guy runing $100 tire, but so what.

BTW, the tires on a friend's Porsche 911 were quite high-end but cheaper
per mile than bicycle tires.

https://www.porscheofgreenville.com/porsche-911-tires.htm

[...]

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

Frank Krygowski

unread,
Aug 31, 2021, 10:42:20 AMAug 31
to
Why?


--
- Frank Krygowski

Frank Krygowski

unread,
Aug 31, 2021, 10:48:37 AMAug 31
to
On 8/30/2021 6:42 PM, Joerg wrote:
> On 8/29/21 6:23 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
>> Joerg <ne...@analogconsultants.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Bicycle tires in general are outlandishly pricey when compared to motor
>>> vehicle tires on a dollar per mile basis.
>>>
>> Your not comparing like for like. Car etc tires are generally
>> equivalent to
>> commute types, road/MTB etc are performance focused, you can buy
>> performance focused car tires but these will empty ones wallet, and
>> wear at
>> a terrifying rate!
>
> That may be but why then is hardly any cycling publication more geared
> towards the utility rider?

That's hardly surprising. There are hardly any consumer publications
devoted to other utility items. I've never seen "Refrigerator Weekly" or
"Washing Machines Illustrated." I doubt there's a magazine even in the
Netherlands devoted to upright Dutch utility bikes.

> Many of us simply want to get from A to B. On
> time, not late and with dirty hands from fixing another flat.

Those bikes exist and are for sale. You simply choose not to ride them.


--
- Frank Krygowski

jbeattie

unread,
Aug 31, 2021, 11:11:39 AMAug 31
to
Probably due to the ascendance of compact cranks. For most people riding on the road without a load, a compact gives them all the gears they need. If 34/32 is not low enough for the road, its time for a motor.

For loaded touring requiring a super low-low, 9sp is a more robust transmission.
https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/bikes/bikepacking-touring-bikes/520/520/p/24000/
https://tinyurl.com/2n2dh3t4
https://www.marinbikes.com/bikes/2021-four-corners
The de facto domestic standard is 9sp on a Sora/Alvio triple with cable discs. Steel frames are popular.



-- Jay Beattie.

Frank Krygowski

unread,
Aug 31, 2021, 11:40:56 AMAug 31
to
And so: Why the switch to "compact cranks"? And why change away from a
more robust transmission?


--
- Frank Krygowski

AMuzi

unread,
Aug 31, 2021, 11:41:38 AMAug 31
to
2x12 compact sells better; simpler to use with great gear range.

jbeattie

unread,
Aug 31, 2021, 12:45:13 PMAug 31
to
Well, maybe I should have said "cheaper" rather than more robust. https://cyclingtips.com/2019/12/the-best-bicycle-chain-durability-and-efficiency-tested/ It appears that 11 and 12sp chains are outlasting classic 9sp chains. It may also be the case that 9sp chains are more common or that cassettes are more common. I don't know, but it could be the transmission equivalent of the 27" wheel being spec'd on touring bikes long after the 700C tires had become common under the assumption that if the bike breaks down in Toadsuck, you're more likely to find a 27" tire at the local Coast to Coast.

-- Jay Beattie.





Tom Kunich

unread,
Aug 31, 2021, 3:47:02 PMAug 31
to
On Tuesday, August 31, 2021 at 7:42:20 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
Frank! You above all people should know that they are half over-lapping ratios.

Tom Kunich

unread,
Aug 31, 2021, 3:54:08 PMAug 31
to
Well, a triple isn't a compact gearing and you end up with ratios FAR lower (faster?) than you need. I think that my latest Campy Compact Centaur 11 speed has more than enough ratios. And if you shift from the 50 to the 34 you have almost the same ratios by dropping two cogs. Not so near the slowest gears but over the widest range.

Tom Kunich

unread,
Aug 31, 2021, 3:57:40 PMAug 31
to