Shimano AX brakes?

[Sir Ridesalot]

Qheb Shimano came out with their AX aero groupsets there were many interesting things tried with it.Dyna-drive pedals, deraillers that didn't need external cable housing. One of the other interesting items was the design of the AX brake caliper.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Delta-Brakes-From-Shimano-600-AX-Front-Rear-Shimano-AX600-AERODINAMIC-Design-/111287651174

They were a nice compact centre-pull design and I recall that they worked very well.

How do those calipers compare with modern rim brakes?

Any ideas as to why such a compact brake caliper design died out?

Cheers

[Frank Krygowski]

I've got no personal experience with them. (I think few people do.) But
there's this:

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rec.bicycles.tech/Xip9ukMbNYE/OC4-daB0s-oJ

- Frank Krygowski

[jbeattie]

They've made a minor come back for TT bikes. They are just a species of center-pull and have the same pad wear/angle issues and are not the last word in stopping power, particularly with the stubby pads. This is based on reports from owners in the '80s. I would think that modern dual pivots have a lighter feel, are easier to adjust and have more stopping power.

-- Jay Beattie.

[davet]

On Tuesday, March 4, 2014 2:46:46 AM UTC-8, Sir Ridesalot wrote:

I had an AX group on my 3Rensho a number of years ago. The AX aero brakes, while good looking, were only moderately good stoppers on a road bike. They were fine for Tri bikes where strong stopping power generally wasn't an issue.

[James]

I remember them. I played with them for a while. I think they had a
roller or similar in each arm that the sides of the wedge would ride
against, so that as the cable pulled the wedge up, the arms would be
forced apart at the top and the pads together against the rim.

They were ok when new, but the rollers and groove that the wedge slid in
would fill with crap and not allow smooth movement, such that the wedge
would not pull evenly, and you get one pad touching before the other,
and with increased pull effort as well.

Regular side pull brakes have simple pivots only, that keep most of the
crap from spoiling the movement.

--
JS

[AMuzi]

There were other similar designs, Weinmann Aero, Modolo
Kronos even Record Delta. They tend toward heavy and complex
where light and simple cost no more. Oh, and just try to
find brake pads for a BR-7300!

http://www.yellowjersey.org/sh83.html

OTOH we actually have these:
http://www.tektro-usa.com/category.php?productid=1174&catid=205&subcat=0

because cyclists have a wide range of taste.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[Sir Ridesalot]

Thanks Andrew.

I saw the Shimano New 600 on that page too. I have that group on one of my bikes but didn't realize it was introduced in 1983 - 1984. Shimano hyped a lot of their stuff saying it was so advanced and great. Another thing I wonder about is the Shimano W cut chainring teeth. Did they abandon that idea too?

Thanks again and cheers.

[AMuzi]

On 3/5/2014 5:58 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
> On Wednesday, March 5, 2014 4:27:13 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 3/4/2014 4:46 AM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
>>
>>> Qheb Shimano came out with their AX aero groupsets there were many interesting things tried with it.Dyna-drive pedals, deraillers that didn't need external cable housing. One of the other interesting items was the design of the AX brake caliper.
>>
>>>
>>
>>> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Delta-Brakes-From-Shimano-600-AX-Front-Rear-Shimano-AX600-AERODINAMIC-Design-/111287651174
>>
>>>
>>
>>> They were a nice compact centre-pull design and I recall that they worked very well.
>>
>>>
>>
>>> How do those calipers compare with modern rim brakes?
>>
>>>
>>
>>> Any ideas as to why such a compact brake caliper design died out?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> There were other similar designs, Weinmann Aero, Modolo
>>
>> Kronos even Record Delta. They tend toward heavy and complex
>>
>> where light and simple cost no more. Oh, and just try to
>>
>> find brake pads for a BR-7300!
>>
>>
>>
>> http://www.yellowjersey.org/sh83.html
>>
>>
>>
>> OTOH we actually have these:
>>
>> http://www.tektro-usa.com/category.php?productid=1174&catid=205&subcat=0
>>
>>
>>
>> because cyclists have a wide range of taste.

> Thanks Andrew.
>
> I saw the Shimano New 600 on that page too. I have that group on one of my bikes but didn't realize it was introduced in 1983 - 1984. Shimano hyped a lot of their stuff saying it was so advanced and great. Another thing I wonder about is the Shimano W cut chainring teeth. Did they abandon that idea too?
>
> Thanks again and cheers.

'W Cut' is not substantially different from any modern
chainring which is to say the idea was a keeper. We now have
ramps and pins besides a few truncated teeth.

Shimano started that with a few missing teeth on freewheel
low gear sprockets ten years before W Cut.

http://www.jims59.com/vintageschwinns/images/1973_World_Voyageur/voyageur_rt_rear.jpg

That was effective too, especially with rear changers of the
era.

[Sir Ridesalot]

On Wednesday, March 5, 2014 4:27:13 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:

Hey there Andrew.

On March 7, 2014 I bought a pair of Dura Ace AX brake calipers for my single speed project. Today I really lucked out in that i found a whole bunch of NOS Dura Ace AX brake rubbers at $1.25 each. I got all the shop had. Also bought a pair of NOS Shimano BL_R400 Aero Brake Levers complete with cables and housing for only $25.00 I don't know what group they belong to but the feel comfortable and look good. Any idea where they fall in the Shimano lineup?

Thanks and cheers

[DATAKOLL MARINE RESEARCH]

On Wednesday, March 5, 2014 4:27:13 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:

CCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCC

interesting print transition..


firecrackers to Cal's Porsche Design.

[DATAKOLL MARINE RESEARCH]

no teeth ?

no shaft

no bar length

no foam

nice boat

[Sir Ridesalot]

What the hell are you going on about? And what does it have to do with the topic? Geeze!

Cheers

[AMuzi]

I think that's still a current item:

http://www.paul-lange.de/support/shimano/explosionszeichnungen_archiv/BL//BLR400.PDF

[DATAKOLL MARINE RESEARCH]

On Thursday, SR complained SR lost control of SR's topic.

?

What's the 'corporate' word for this ?

Used tube, disc brakeless US auto 'enthusiasts' blamed GM (Cyclops) accountants.

Opposite of improving product for inceased market share, company would par the product's material costs down while raising the price...

no teeth !

CUGNOT !

[AMuzi]

Oracles don't communicate like we lessers.

Take the Pythoness of Delphi for example, as told by Herodotus:

"They found the city forsaken; a few people only remained in
the temple, either keepers of the treasures, or men of the
poorer sort. These persons having fortified the citadel with
planks and boards, held out against the enemy. It was in
some measure their poverty which had prevented them from
seeking shelter in Salamis; but there was likewise another
reason which in part induced them to remain. They imagined
themselves to have discovered the true meaning of the oracle
uttered by the Pythoness, which promised that "the wooden
wall" should never be taken- the wooden wall, they thought,
did not mean the ships, but the place where they had taken
refuge. "

They were of course obliterated. Athens was actually saved
by a magnificent naval victory in wooden ships at Salamis.

[Sir Ridesalot]

Thanks again Andrew. Too bad that others can't reply with pertinent information when one asks a simple question about bicycle components.

Do you know where in quality this component falls? is it below Sora, similar too or higher? feels like a very nice lever and looks pretty good quality wise.

Thanks again and cheers

[DATAKOLL MARINE RESEARCH]

sssssssssssssssssssssssssss

Read thru n get back here for a quiz


https://www.google.com/search?q=aluminum+alloy+&hl=en&authuser=0#authuser=0&hl=en&q=history+of+aluminum+alloys

https://www.google.com/#q=developments+in+aluminum+alloy+1970-2010
Here, old parts went to th smelter.

[DATAKOLL MARINE RESEARCH]

SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS


MORE POST ADULLTERATION

http://goo.gl/OpgByQ

http://gearpatrol.com/2014/01/15/2015-ford-f-150-ford-goes-aluminum-diet/

[Sir Ridesalot]

On Thursday, May 1, 2014 4:35:55 PM UTC-4, Sir Ridesalot wrote:

Once again going to a moderated bike forum gets an on-topic reply. The levers are Tiagra.

Thanks to on-topic posters.

Cheers

[DATAKOLL MARINE RESEARCH]

AB N FITCH at NEWPORT

http://gearpatrol.com/2013/09/26/mountain-biking-essentials-fools-gold-100/2/

[DATAKOLL MARINE RESEARCH]

On Thursday, May 1, 2014 7:01:35 PM UTC-4, DATAKOLL MARINE RESEARCH wrote:
> AB N FITCH at NEWPORT
>
>
>
> http://gearpatrol.com/2013/09/26/mountain-biking-essentials-fools-gold-100/2/

................

posters complaining of hijacking often ignore the fact their post generate other ideas an information.

[Duane]

So you create a new thread.
--
duane

[Dan O]

On Thursday, May 1, 2014 3:59:04 PM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot wrote:

> > > >>> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Delta-Brakes-From-Shimano-600-AX-Front-Rear-Shimano-AX600-AERODINAMIC-Design-/111287651174
>

Looks like they'd be prone to jamming up with crud, and want
oil (which I wouldn't want to put so close and just above the
pads).

(Of course, brakes are not my thing ;-)

[Dan O]

What "W cut chainring teeth" has to do with "Shimano AX brakes?"

Message-ID: <1e3cc4db-2d25-4b54-9229-1569d7c74ac7...
Subject: Shimano AX brakes?
From: Sir Ridesalot <i_am...

[AMuzi]

On 5/1/2014 3:35 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
-snip snip-

> Do you know where in quality this component falls? is it below Sora, similar too or higher? feels like a very nice lever and looks pretty good quality wise.

Shimano is easy 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 in both MTB and
Road equipment. 400 is mid range. Part number/model ranking
may reflect appearance more than durability in some cases.

[AMuzi]

On 5/1/2014 6:01 PM, DATAKOLL MARINE RESEARCH wrote:
> AB N FITCH at NEWPORT
>
> http://gearpatrol.com/2013/09/26/mountain-biking-essentials-fools-gold-100/2/
>

the link is actually:
http://www.corvaircorsa.com/fitch2.html

[DATAKOLL MARINE RESEARCH]

duane -

94% internet discussion bifurcate.

[Duane]

DATAKOLL MARINE RESEARCH <avag...@gmail.com> wrote:

> duane -
>
> 94% internet discussion bifurcate.

More like 99 33/44% here.

--
duane

[Andre Jute]

On Friday, May 2, 2014 12:26:49 PM UTC+1, x wrote:
> On Thursday, May 1, 2014 7:01:35 PM UTC-4, DATAKOLL MARINE RESEARCH wrote:

> posters complaining of hijacking often ignore the fact their post generate other ideas an information.

You don't offer any ideas or information, Daniels, you just hijack other people's threads because no one reads the worthless threads you start.

Skipping your worthless threads and zero-content posts is tiresome but at least less painful than reading your illiterate English.

And no, I didn't this self-justifying crap you sent the first time round; I saw it only because Duane quoted you in his reply.

Andre Jute

[DATAKOLL MARINE RESEARCH]

http://www.hcn.org/issues/304/15735

[Sir Ridesalot]

Well at least something about W-cut chainring teeth is bicycle related. Actually, the AX groupset was designed to be aerodynamic. Shimano came out with W-cut chainring teeth to make shifting better. This change was iirc introduced in the AX groupsets. Thus the question was related to AX brakes - sort of.

So many threads here morph into things com0pletely unrelated to bicycles let alone the topic.

Cheers

[DATAKOLL MARINE RESEARCH]

we try tube well rounded individuals...

Schwine's lack of teeth is aerodynamic ?

Suntour rear derays used here failed with crystalline weakness fractures but derays were in use.

I doahno how Shimano's metallurgy timeline displays or if there is a failure rate ?

comment ?

BTWOT, there's an Armstrong lookalike in the crowd at the landslide.

[dm202...@gmail.com]

Just picked up a 600AX caliper set. Still have those NOS rubbers?