Google Groups no longer supports new Usenet posts or subscriptions. Historical content remains viewable.
Dismiss
Wheel friction when wheel is on the bicycle
109 views
Skip to first unread message
Dstamat Ymail
Sep 23, 2022, 4:30:01 AM9/23/22
to
Dear All,
I would appreciate your advice on the following:
The rear wheel of my everyday bicycle has a Shimano Nexus Inter-8 hub and rollerbrake. I recently found that the hub was a little loose so I removed it from the bicycle, removed the roller brake and adjusted the hub. I tested it holding the wheel from both ends of the axle and spinning it. There was no play and the wheel spun freely without any movement from the sprocket or the cassette joint. However after I reinstalled the rollerbrake and put the wheel back on the bicycle, adjusted the chain so that it is not too tight, and tightened the lock nuts, there seems to be a lot (I mean a lot!) of friction and the pedals rotate with the wheel. I did this a few times trying to slightly change the adjustment of the hub to make sure that there was no problem there but the result was the same.
At first I thought that the rollerbrake could be too tight and brake the wheel, however this would not cause the pedals to turn, would it? Do you know what else may have gone wrong here?
Many thanks in advance
Dimitris
I would appreciate your advice on the following:
The rear wheel of my everyday bicycle has a Shimano Nexus Inter-8 hub and rollerbrake. I recently found that the hub was a little loose so I removed it from the bicycle, removed the roller brake and adjusted the hub. I tested it holding the wheel from both ends of the axle and spinning it. There was no play and the wheel spun freely without any movement from the sprocket or the cassette joint. However after I reinstalled the rollerbrake and put the wheel back on the bicycle, adjusted the chain so that it is not too tight, and tightened the lock nuts, there seems to be a lot (I mean a lot!) of friction and the pedals rotate with the wheel. I did this a few times trying to slightly change the adjustment of the hub to make sure that there was no problem there but the result was the same.
At first I thought that the rollerbrake could be too tight and brake the wheel, however this would not cause the pedals to turn, would it? Do you know what else may have gone wrong here?
Many thanks in advance
Dimitris
funkma...@hotmail.com
Sep 23, 2022, 5:27:54 AM9/23/22
to
https://sheldonbrown.com/nexus8/index.htm
It gives a pictorial guidance for rebuilding nexus hubs. It might give some insight as to what may be causing the issue.
AMuzi
Sep 23, 2022, 9:03:27 AM9/23/22
to
On 9/23/2022 2:52 AM, Dstamat Ymail wrote:
> Dear All,
>
> Your advice please on the following. The rear wheel of my everyday bicycle has a Shimano Nexus Inter-8 hub and rollerbrake. I recently found that the hub was a little loose so I removed it from the bicycle, removed the roller brake and adjusted it. I tested it holding it from both ends of the axle and spinning it and there was no play and the wheel spun freely without any movement from the sprocket or the cassette joint. However after I reinstalled the rollerbrake and put the wheel back on the bicycle and tightened the lock nuts there seems to be a lot (I mean a lot!) of friction and the pedals rotate with the wheel. I did this a few times trying to slightly change the adjustment of the hub to make sure that there was no problem there but the result was the same.
> Dear All,
>
>
> At first I thought that there would be a problem with the rollerbrake however this would not cause the pedals to turn, would it? Do you know what else may have went wrong here?
>
> Many thanks in advance
>
> Dimitris
>
It could be overly tight but it could also be dried
> Many thanks in advance
>
> Dimitris
>
lubricant or dirt inside or some combination of those.
Less likely, you may also have chain tension too high which
is hell on bearings.
http://www.yellowjersey.org/chainchk.jpg
--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
AMuzi
Sep 23, 2022, 9:08:10 AM9/23/22
to
funkma...@hotmail.com
Sep 23, 2022, 10:39:39 AM9/23/22
to
AMuzi
Sep 23, 2022, 1:13:31 PM9/23/22
to
reason. They are helpful here on RBT but moreso in my
general email correspondence, "a thousand words" worth actually.
Message has been deleted
Dstamat Ymail
Sep 25, 2022, 5:46:10 AM9/25/22
to
Thanks to all for your responses and the great pictures from Andy. I believe the hub is adjusted properly because after I tighten the locknut there is no play and the wheel seems to spin fine when I hold it. If there were an issue with the bearings or the grease wouldn't it manifest itself there? For example, I would notice the friction and see the sprocket turn as well. And for sure the chain is not too tight. Any other ideas? Would allowing a little looser adjustment improve the situation?
I could open it up again and try to rebuild the whole thing. However Shimano recommends their special grease for the bearings and I do not have that. Would "regular" grease like Phil Wood waterproof grease do the job?
Many thanks again
Dimitris
I could open it up again and try to rebuild the whole thing. However Shimano recommends their special grease for the bearings and I do not have that. Would "regular" grease like Phil Wood waterproof grease do the job?
Many thanks again
Dimitris
Sepp Ruf
Sep 25, 2022, 6:21:49 AM9/25/22
to
Dstamat Ymail wrote:
> Thanks to all for your responses and the great pictures from Andy. I
> believe the hub is adjusted properly because after I tighten the
> locknut there is no play and the wheel seems to spin fine when I hold
> it. If there were an issue with the bearings or the grease wouldn't
> it manifest itself there? For example, I would notice the friction
> and see the sprocket turn as well. And for sure the chain is not too
> tight. Any other ideas?
After tightening the locknuts, the additional compression is
> Thanks to all for your responses and the great pictures from Andy. I
> believe the hub is adjusted properly because after I tighten the
> locknut there is no play and the wheel seems to spin fine when I hold
> it. If there were an issue with the bearings or the grease wouldn't
> it manifest itself there? For example, I would notice the friction
> and see the sprocket turn as well. And for sure the chain is not too
> tight. Any other ideas?
overtightening the "correctly adjusted" hub?
Were increased interior noises heard/felt this year, compared to the
hub's first? How old is the hub, how much has it been ridden, how much
rain has it breathed, not to mention (road/sea) salt?
> I could open it up again and try to rebuild the whole thing. However
> Shimano recommends their special grease for the bearings and I do not
> job?
Metal ball bearings do not need any specially branded grease. But at
least for the gears inside the brakeless Nexus 8sp IGH I'm aware of, a
Shimano oil bath procedure is recommended with Shimano's boutique-priced
oil.
>>>>>> The rear wheel of my everyday bicycle has a Shimano Nexus
>>>>>> Inter-8 hub and rollerbrake. I recently found that the hub
>>>>>> was a little loose so I removed it from the bicycle,
>>>>>> removed the roller brake and adjusted the hub. I tested it
>>>>>> holding the wheel from both ends of the axle and spinning
>>>>>> it. There was no play and the wheel spun freely without any
>>>>>> movement from the sprocket or the cassette joint. However
>>>>>> after I reinstalled the rollerbrake and put the wheel back
>>>>>> on the bicycle, adjusted the chain so that it is not too
>>>>>> tight, and tightened the lock nuts, there seems to be a lot
>>>>>> (I mean a lot!) of friction and the pedals rotate with the
>>>>>> wheel. I did this a few times trying to slightly change the
>>>>>> adjustment of the hub to make sure that there was no
>>>>>> problem there but the result was the same.
I had read this as if you had then adjusted the hub play, incrementally,
>>>>>> Inter-8 hub and rollerbrake. I recently found that the hub
>>>>>> was a little loose so I removed it from the bicycle,
>>>>>> removed the roller brake and adjusted the hub. I tested it
>>>>>> holding the wheel from both ends of the axle and spinning
>>>>>> it. There was no play and the wheel spun freely without any
>>>>>> movement from the sprocket or the cassette joint. However
>>>>>> after I reinstalled the rollerbrake and put the wheel back
>>>>>> on the bicycle, adjusted the chain so that it is not too
>>>>>> tight, and tightened the lock nuts, there seems to be a lot
>>>>>> (I mean a lot!) of friction and the pedals rotate with the
>>>>>> wheel. I did this a few times trying to slightly change the
>>>>>> adjustment of the hub to make sure that there was no
>>>>>> problem there but the result was the same.
but after installing and tightening the lock nuts, using the prescribed
Newtonmeters, the hub continually displayed the same amount of excessive
friction. Within your readjustment series, did you go as far as to try
deliberate, extra hub play as large as the one you initially had
ventured to repair?
--
<https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FY73xKCXEAIPDfP?format=jpg>
Ralph Barone
Sep 25, 2022, 11:33:34 AM9/25/22
to
turning the axle along with one of the outer nuts, inadvertently tightening
up all the innards of the hub and pretty much locking them up. If you have
a cone wrench, consider loosening one of the outer axle nuts, then loosen
the adjacent inner nut a tiny bit with the cone wrench before retightening
the outer nut.
Message has been deleted
Message has been deleted
Dstamat Ymail
Sep 28, 2022, 3:09:24 AM9/28/22
to
On Sunday, September 25, 2022 at 5:33:34 PM UTC+2, Ralph Barone wrote:
Hello again,
The hub is 11 years old and and has around 15,000 miles. It has been ridden through mixed conditions, has seen a lot of rain and sand (I do not ride on the beach but around here we have it everywhere) and carried extra loads up to 130 lb on the rear rack. I have never serviced it. About a month ago I removed the wheel to change sprocket and chain (I do it every 6-9 months) and it seemed fine. However a couple of weeks later it started making some noise which a few days later I then identified as coming from the loose hub.
I considered the idea of adjusting it with some play hoping that the extra compression from the wheel lock nuts would remove it, but is this the right way? Doesn't the lock nut of the hub protect it from the extra tightening?
Readjusting the hub after the wheel is on the bike is not possible because the hub cone and lock nut are hidden by the rollerbrake so there is no access to them.
Regards
Dimitris
The hub is 11 years old and and has around 15,000 miles. It has been ridden through mixed conditions, has seen a lot of rain and sand (I do not ride on the beach but around here we have it everywhere) and carried extra loads up to 130 lb on the rear rack. I have never serviced it. About a month ago I removed the wheel to change sprocket and chain (I do it every 6-9 months) and it seemed fine. However a couple of weeks later it started making some noise which a few days later I then identified as coming from the loose hub.
I considered the idea of adjusting it with some play hoping that the extra compression from the wheel lock nuts would remove it, but is this the right way? Doesn't the lock nut of the hub protect it from the extra tightening?
Readjusting the hub after the wheel is on the bike is not possible because the hub cone and lock nut are hidden by the rollerbrake so there is no access to them.
Regards
Dimitris
John B.
Sep 28, 2022, 3:44:50 AM9/28/22
to
quick release where tightening the quick release would compress the
axle causing the bearings to bind a bit. Thus the uninstalled wheel
required the axle bearing adjustment to be just a bit loose.
The point is that correct wheel bearing adjustment is for correct
bearing clearance with the wheel installed and ready to ride.
--
Cheers,
John B.
AMuzi
Sep 28, 2022, 8:25:40 AM9/28/22
to
On 9/28/2022 2:05 AM, Dstamat Ymail wrote:
> On Sunday, September 25, 2022 at 5:33:34 PM UTC+2, Ralph Barone wrote:
> On Sunday, September 25, 2022 at 5:33:34 PM UTC+2, Ralph Barone wrote:
> Hello again,
>
> The hub is 11 years old and and has around 15,000 miles. It has been ridden through mixed conditions, has seen a lot of rain and sand (I do not ride on the beach but around here we have it everywhere) and carried extra loads up to 130 lb on the rear rack. I have never serviced it. About a month ago I removed the wheel to change sprocket and chain (I do it every 6-9 months) and it seemed fine. However a couple of weeks later it started making some noise which a few days later I then identified as coming from the loose hub.
>
> I considered the idea of adjusting it with some play hoping that the extra compression from the wheel lock nuts would remove it, but is this the right way? Doesn't the lock nut of the hub protect it from the extra tightening?
>
> Readjusting the hub after the wheel is not the bike is not possible because the hub cone and lock nut are hidden by the rollerbrake so there is not access to them.
>
> The hub is 11 years old and and has around 15,000 miles. It has been ridden through mixed conditions, has seen a lot of rain and sand (I do not ride on the beach but around here we have it everywhere) and carried extra loads up to 130 lb on the rear rack. I have never serviced it. About a month ago I removed the wheel to change sprocket and chain (I do it every 6-9 months) and it seemed fine. However a couple of weeks later it started making some noise which a few days later I then identified as coming from the loose hub.
>
> I considered the idea of adjusting it with some play hoping that the extra compression from the wheel lock nuts would remove it, but is this the right way? Doesn't the lock nut of the hub protect it from the extra tightening?
>
>
> Regards
>
> Dimitris
>
You are correct in that solid axle locknuts preclude any
bearing change when the outer axle nuts are tightened.
Axles can flex if the frame ends are misaligned but that's
usually observable when tightening the axle nuts and
unlikely here- you would have noticed it in the past 15000
miles. That's high mileage with no internal service, by the
way. You ought to plan for a cleaning and rebuild.
Frank Krygowski
Sep 28, 2022, 12:10:59 PM9/28/22
to
mechanism puts the entire axle between the cones into compression.
But it's not true for nutted axles. Only the portion within the dropout
is placed in tension. The remainder is not affected - especially the
portion between the cones.
>
> The point is that correct wheel bearing adjustment is for correct
> bearing clearance with the wheel installed and ready to ride.
--
- Frank Krygowski
0 new messages