Rain?

[Mark Cleary]

Today out for an attempted 4 mile run and it went ok. Then jump on bike for 25 more miles. I was misting and a little light rain. No thunder or lighting I am terrified of that stuff almost a phobia. Well I was already sweating so why not just ride in the rain? I did and it never got bad stopped and no real downpours.

What amazes me is those I know the cycle who do not ride in the rain. They get on the trainer. Now I can see that if it is pouring and windy but today was calm and just light drizzle. Frankly I will take that over a sunny windy day anytime. I don't get it these guys are serious cyclist. Why not go out.
Deacon mark

[AMuzi]

+1
It's misting and light rain here as well but hey humans are
drip-dry!

Somewhere between you and me there are heavy storms and
flooding which will go on for several hours yet.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[Frank Krygowski]

On Sunday, September 11, 2022 at 3:55:49 PM UTC-4, deaco...@gmail.com wrote:
> Today out for an attempted 4 mile run and it went ok. Then jump on bike for 25 more miles. I was misting and a little light rain. No thunder or lighting I am terrified of that stuff almost a phobia. Well I was already sweating so why not just ride in the rain? I did and it never got bad stopped and no real downpours.
>
> What amazes me is those I know the cycle who do not ride in the rain. They get on the trainer. Now I can see that if it is pouring and windy but today was calm and just light drizzle. Frankly I will take that over a sunny windy day anytime. I don't get it these guys are serious cyclist. Why not go out.
>

My normal policy for recreational rides is to skip it if it's actually raining. In my commuting days, it depended
on circumstances, but there were plenty of days I said "Well, it's not raining _now_" and headed in by bike.
On some of those days, it was raining well within three miles of leaving.

Of course, if I had to ride home from work, or if I were traveling by bike, I rode in the rain. That's one of
the reasons my bikes all have fenders.

I agree, very light rain is not much of a problem, although I don't appreciate the road spray by passing cars.

I remain a bit surprised that rain bothers us so much. After all, we evolved (or were created, your choice)
to live on a planet where rain happens pretty frequently. Why does it bother us so?

My guess at the moment is because it increases chances for hypothermia. But comments are welcome.
Hypothermia isn't much of a problem for cyclists moving above 10 mph. I was always moist with
perspiration when I arrived at work.

- Frank Krygowski

[Catrike Rider]

Sometimes, here in Florida on a bike ride, I wish for rain.

[Lou Holtman]

After weeks of dry a warm weather I enjoyed the windy and rainy conditions last Friday and the fog this morning. I hate 30 + C temperatures and high humidity even more. I like the spring and autumn better than the summer.

Lou

[Tom Kunich]

For half the day it looked like it was going to rain but never got thick enough clouds. I did a 62 km ride with 566 meters of climbing. I have to admit that I stopped several times to let my heart rate come down to acceptable but by the end of the ride I was going good. On the way up Palomares Canyon, there was a dribble of water along the cliffside but the creek was totally dry. Going down the other side.

I thought that I was being careful but this steel bike gives me so much confidence that the Garmin tells me I hit 140 kph

[Roger Merriman]

Frank Krygowski <frkr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sunday, September 11, 2022 at 3:55:49 PM UTC-4, deaco...@gmail.com wrote:
>> Today out for an attempted 4 mile run and it went ok. Then jump on bike
>> for 25 more miles. I was misting and a little light rain. No thunder or
>> lighting I am terrified of that stuff almost a phobia. Well I was
>> already sweating so why not just ride in the rain? I did and it never
>> got bad stopped and no real downpours.
>>
>> What amazes me is those I know the cycle who do not ride in the rain.
>> They get on the trainer. Now I can see that if it is pouring and windy
>> but today was calm and just light drizzle. Frankly I will take that over
>> a sunny windy day anytime. I don't get it these guys are serious cyclist. Why not go out.
>>
>
> My normal policy for recreational rides is to skip it if it's actually
> raining. In my commuting days, it depended
> on circumstances, but there were plenty of days I said "Well, it's not
> raining _now_" and headed in by bike.
> On some of those days, it was raining well within three miles of leaving.
>
> Of course, if I had to ride home from work, or if I were traveling by
> bike, I rode in the rain. That's one of
> the reasons my bikes all have fenders.

My commute bike has mudguards this said if it’s very wet, some of the few
roads I use/cross do flood so shoes can and do get wet if that happens.

But generally I commute if it’s wet or not, about the only thing I’m
cautious of is snow as the commute bike is so poor in it.

>
> I agree, very light rain is not much of a problem, although I don't
> appreciate the road spray by passing cars.
>

Generally not a issue for myself as well I’m using parks and cycleways for
most part.

A roadie ride into rain isn’t particularly pleasant though off road so MTB
or gravel is generally fine, somewhat harder going and you’d probably want
to give the higher hills a miss say.

> I remain a bit surprised that rain bothers us so much. After all, we
> evolved (or were created, your choice)
> to live on a planet where rain happens pretty frequently. Why does it bother us so?
>
> My guess at the moment is because it increases chances for hypothermia.
> But comments are welcome.
> Hypothermia isn't much of a problem for cyclists moving above 10 mph. I
> was always moist with
> perspiration when I arrived at work.

Even the Welsh hills which aren’t terribly high top out at 3k foot you can
cool quickly particularly with wind, I’ve certainly altered rides, with
friends where we’ve dropped a 1000ft and into less exposure areas as well
temperatures where falling, playing safe etc.
>
> - Frank Krygowski
>
Roger Merriman.

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Sun, 11 Sep 2022 14:23:28 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:

>I thought that I was being careful but this steel bike gives me so much confidence that the Garmin tells me I hit 140 kph

140 km/hr = 87 miles/hr
I don't think so.

--
Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

[AMuzi]

Typo?

147 km is 87 miles.

[Ralph Barone]

Bikecalculator.com says that at 2500W rider output down a 25% grade, speed
is 137 km/ hr. If I try to enter a gradient greater than -25% or power
above 2500 W, the calculator starts doing weird shit.

[Jeff Liebermann]

Max Speed error
<https://forums.garmin.com/apps-software/mobile-apps-web/f/garmin-connect-web/52217/max-speed-error>
"Every once in a while I'll get a top speed from my downloaded data
that is incredibly high. For example: I spent five hours on mountain
trails Friday at an average speed of about 6 miles an hour. Max speed
reported was 82 mph!"

[ritzann...@gmail.com]

2500 watts is 3.35 horsepower. Can human beings even generate that much power?

[pH]

<snip>

>> Bikecalculator.com says that at 2500W rider output down a 25% grade, speed
>> is 137 km/ hr. If I try to enter a gradient greater than -25% or power
>> above 2500 W, the calculator starts doing weird shit.
>
> 2500 watts is 3.35 horsepower. Can human beings even generate that much power?

I've always heard (from Homepower magazine and the like), that a standard
man is capable of about 0.25 horsepower.

0.25 horsepower x 741 watts/horsepower = (about) 185 watts.

There were often letters to the editor in Home Power saying "Why can't I
pedal my bike w/ a generator to recharge my batteries?"

They soon left with a whole new appreciation for the power embodied in a
50W solar panel. (typically 3.4A at 17V--less when it 'locked' to a battery
voltage)

Today's panels are 300watts or more and 30V nominal or more...they attach in
series to controllers that can sell directLY back to the utility or
down-convert to the battery bank...typically 48V nowadays.

I have no idea the effect Lithium batteries have had...my knowledge is 20
years out of date!

pH in Aptos

[AK]

This discussion of rain brings back some memories.

Where I live in Texas we have "Texas Gumbo" for our dirt.

I recall riding any bike as a kid thru wet gumbo that resulted in the bike immediately stopping due to the mud clogging up the tires.
Then the walk home until you got to a garden hose.

:-)

Andy

[John B.]

Apparently they can. I read that Usain Bolt produced a maximum of 3.5
hp (2.6 kW) 0.89 seconds into his 9.58 second 100-metre (109.4 yd)
dash world record in 2009.
https://runningmagazine.ca/uncategorized/usain-bolt-power-output/
Max velocity ~45 km/h
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Rolf Mantel]

Finally, the end of the heat wave (Friday was the first day I felt
uncomfortable in the office in t-shirt and shorts)!
The weather forecast is predicting more than an inch of rain all over
Germany during the current week, with the center parts getting 2 inches.

[Ralph Barone]

No. At least not for the amount of time it would take to accelerate to 140
km/hr.

[Frank Krygowski]

On Monday, September 12, 2022 at 10:20:56 AM UTC-4, Ralph Barone wrote:

> russell...@yahoo.com <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > 2500 watts is 3.35 horsepower. Can human beings even generate that much power?
> >
> No. At least not for the amount of time it would take to accelerate to 140
> km/hr.

Right. _Bicycling Science_ has some graphs of power capability vs. time. A strong human
might produce a couple horsepower for a couple seconds, but power potential falls very quickly
with time.

It's good to remember that 1 horsepower was never defined as the peak power output of a horse.
It was instead supposed to represent the long term power output of a draft horse walking in
circles for hours at a time to pump water out of mines. Mine owners wouldn't want to overwork
their horses into premature deaths.

- Frank Krygowski

[Tom Kunich]

In some other place I printed the Garmin readout. This cannot be from a faulty sensor since it is checked against the GPS.

[Tom Kunich]

On the Garmin chart it appears to be a very long, climb and the top which is 12% at the top, dropping slowly away to 6% for a long way at the bottom. But the first half appears to be very sharply downhill. You are very welcome to disbelieve the Garmin reading since you weren't riding the bike. That speed discounting the aerodynamic drag and rolling resistance would be achieved in just three seconds of acceleration due to gravity. This drop is about a minute in total And then a 6% runoff over a mile or more. The old version 1 speed and cadence detectors used to show speed spikes so Garmin designed the version 2 sensors which stopped that.

[Lou Holtman]

You never went 140 km/hr, period.

Lou

[Jeff Liebermann]

[Tom Kunich]

Lou, you can believe anything you wish. I published the Garmin readings and they are measured by GPS time and distance. If you know a way that they can be mistaken then by all means tell us. I have no idea if you've ridden the Dutch Mountains or what sort of descents they have but they are very similar to height of the pass I made that reading on.

[Lou Holtman]

Tom, if you believe that you hit 140 km/hr because the Garmin said so then you don't have much feel for reality. Hitting 100 km/hr is extremely difficult on a descent.
Young colleague of mine said today that a bracket would deflect 0.020 mm when a force of 10 N would be applied because that was the outcome of his simulation. I said 'really?'. Let's do a sanity check. I pushed the same bracket with 10 N with a force gauge (a 10 sec test) and we could SEE it deflecting. Do you think that what you saw was 20 um? He still was not convinced but he promised me he would check his simulation. We will see what he come up with tomorrow. A sanity check has to be part of a computer simulation.

Lou

[Ralph Barone]

One day while riding to work, my Garmin threw in one sample in the middle
of the Pacific Ocean. Brought my average speed up to nearly the speed of
sound. Proud day…

[Tom Kunich]

Well, Is your point that you cannot trust your Garmin? Since ICBM's are targeted via GPS you're no doubt in deep shit since you're so close to Moscow.

[Lou Holtman]

If it would show a spike of 140 km/hr yes I don't trust that reading because I know I am not going 140 km/hr.

> Since ICBM's are targeted via GPS you're no doubt in deep shit since you're so close to Moscow.

??? only GPS? As a coincident I read about the various guiding systems of missiles recently and found out that it is a bit more complicated that just a GPS coordinate.

Lou

[John B.]

Err Frank! And you an engineer.

Horsepower was invented by James Watt as a measure of the power of a
steam engine and the calculation of 32,572 ft·lbf/min seems to be just
an estimate, or guess, as various numbers, 22,916, 44,000 and 27,500
had been suggested by others.
--
Cheers,

John B.

[AMuzi]

meh. I bet you looked up the numbers.

Mr Krygowski is correct that Mr Watt rated his engine in
terms of average output over a working shift for direct
economic comparison.

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Mon, 12 Sep 2022 19:12:47 -0000 (UTC), Ralph Barone
<ra...@invalid.com> wrote:

>Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com> wrote:

>> Max Speed error
>> <https://forums.garmin.com/apps-software/mobile-apps-web/f/garmin-connect-web/52217/max-speed-error>
>> "Every once in a while I'll get a top speed from my downloaded data
>> that is incredibly high. For example: I spent five hours on mountain
>> trails Friday at an average speed of about 6 miles an hour. Max speed
>> reported was 82 mph!"

>One day while riding to work, my Garmin threw in one sample in the middle
>of the Pacific Ocean. Brought my average speed up to nearly the speed of
>sound. Proud day…

Nice. I have a good guess of what is causing the amazing speeds on
Garmin (and other) bicycle computahs. I would normally unload my
guesswork into RBT except there's a problem. That last time I wrote
long articles on GPS accuracy and on how the GPS system worked, there
didn't seem to be much interest. That was about 3 full days when all
I did was write about GPS and bicycle computers. I don't want to do
that again. For now, I'll call the problem a failure of the Garmin
firmware to run sanity checks on its output or a failure to recover
gracefully from a loss of GPS sync. Such errors should be caught
early in the GPS firmware and not later in any software that uses the
data. I can usually detect such data incongruities by feeding the
NMEA 0183 output to an X-Y plotting program:
<https://www.visualgps.net>
It will produce a scatter plot that looks something like this:
<https://www.visualgps.net/VisualGPSView/images/ssScatter.png>
Look for single data points that are VERY far from the uncertainty
circle. Those are causing the glitch. Details and more guesses on
demand, if anyone wants them.


Drivel: When I was about 17 years old, I received a speeding ticket
for 30 mph on my bicycle. This was on smooth continuous sidewalk and
down a not very steep hill. At the bottom of the hill, I flew off the
curb into an intersection, miraculously avoided getting hit by cars,
slammed into the opposite curb (mangling the front wheel, fork, crank,
etc), went airborne into some shrubbery (which saved my life) and
eventually bounced to a stop on a neighbors doorstep. I was mostly ok
(no helmet), but bleeding from everywhere. When it was conclusively
determined that I survived, the LAPD gave me the speeding ticket. The
police did not have radar but claimed he had paced me down the hill. I
saw the police car, but suspect he guessed as to my speed. I framed
the ticket and proudly hung it on my wall. I then lost it for many
years. When I finally found it, the carbon copy had faded, so I threw
it away. It would have been great for bragging rights when I was in
college.

On the right, from the top of the hill to the street behind me:
<https://goo.gl/maps/zxFLzCyp6oUU13uu5>

[Radey Shouman]

True, but they didn't use draft horses, they didn't have room. Mine
horses were always small.

[Radey Shouman]

Engineering has nothing to do with it. "Horsepower" was marketing genius.

[Frank Krygowski]

Exactly. Mr. Watt had to be able to tell his potential customers "This engine will replace X horses."
(Horses are expensive to keep running.)

- Frank Krygowski

[Frank Krygowski]

On Monday, September 12, 2022 at 8:34:12 PM UTC-4, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> Drivel: When I was about 17 years old, I received a speeding ticket
> for 30 mph on my bicycle. This was on smooth continuous sidewalk and
> down a not very steep hill. At the bottom of the hill, I flew off the
> curb into an intersection, miraculously avoided getting hit by cars,
> slammed into the opposite curb (mangling the front wheel, fork, crank,
> etc), went airborne into some shrubbery (which saved my life) and
> eventually bounced to a stop on a neighbors doorstep. I was mostly ok
> (no helmet), but bleeding from everywhere. When it was conclusively
> determined that I survived, the LAPD gave me the speeding ticket. The
> police did not have radar but claimed he had paced me down the hill. I
> saw the police car, but suspect he guessed as to my speed. I framed

> the ticket and proudly hung it on my wall. ...

Nice tale. I have two that are vaguely related. First, our suburban village is listed as a "speed trap" on
various websites, because the police actually (gasp!) enforce the state-mandated speed limits. I'm
fine with that. (My wife and I just got back from a nighttime walk.)

Anyway, heading north, there's a nice downhill to the center of the village where the police station sits.
On a bike, I make it a point to always exceed the 25 mph limit by at least a little, just for fun. Once,
with a nephew on the back seat of the tandem, we beat 40 mph on that hill.

Second tale: I knew a guy who used to bike commute in that same direction, at something like 6 AM
most mornings. He said one day as he was flying down the hill, the blue lights and siren appeared
behind him. He pulled over, and the policeman said "Do you know how fast you were going?" The
cyclists said "No, sir." The cop said "You hit 35. I just thought you might want to know." And he sent him
on his way.

- Frank Krygowski

[Frank Krygowski]

I don't think that's true. The horses Watt was replacing were probably not down in the mine.
After all, AFAIK his steam engines weren't placed inside the mine. They ran the pumping system
from above. I assume the horses did the same.

Small horses or ponies were used in mines, but I think that was for hauling or pulling loads.
I'm open to correction if you have contrary information.

- Frank Krygowski

[ritzann...@gmail.com]

On Monday, September 12, 2022 at 8:13:12 AM UTC-5, Rolf Mantel wrote:
> Am 11.09.2022 um 23:09 schrieb Lou Holtman:
> > On Sunday, September 11, 2022 at 9:55:49 PM UTC+2, deaco...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> Today out for an attempted 4 mile run and it went ok. Then jump on bike for 25 more miles. I was misting and a little light rain. No thunder or lighting I am terrified of that stuff almost a phobia. Well I was already sweating so why not just ride in the rain? I did and it never got bad stopped and no real downpours.
> >>
> >> What amazes me is those I know the cycle who do not ride in the rain. They get on the trainer. Now I can see that if it is pouring and windy but today was calm and just light drizzle. Frankly I will take that over a sunny windy day anytime. I don't get it these guys are serious cyclist. Why not go out.
> >> Deacon mark
> > After weeks of dry a warm weather I enjoyed the windy and rainy conditions last Friday and the fog this morning. I hate 30 + C temperatures and high humidity even more. I like the spring and autumn better than the summer.
> Finally, the end of the heat wave (Friday was the first day I felt
> uncomfortable in the office in t-shirt and shorts)!

????? Different office work attire than I have ever experienced. I started out in suit and tie and dress shoes. Eventually migrated to cotton Docker style pants and collared shirt. No tie. But never ever made it to t-shirt and shorts. Heck, back when I was in school, shorts were not even allowed. You could wear t-shirts though.

[ritzann...@gmail.com]

Lou, let me be the first to tell you, Tommy does not have much feel for reality. I have hit 60 mph, about 100 kmh, on a couple descents. In the mountains of course. With several miles of straightish road. Maybe a few easy curves. And it took some effort to reach that speed. I had to get down on the drops and get as aero as possible. And when 60 mph showed on the bike computer, I said Yeah!!!!! And sat up and slowed down to 55 mph or so. As for Tommy's 87 mph, 140 kmh, about 50% faster than the fastest I ever achieved on a descent, I am a little bit skeptical. Ha Ha.

[ritzann...@gmail.com]

Maybe Garmin put the Hawaii map into your computer.

[ritzann...@gmail.com]

Tommy, I know you are uneducated. But let me be the first to tell you, the US military does not use Garmin to target its missiles. The missile targeters and Garmin may both use GPS because it is just a static point or location. But the computers and satellites figuring out exactly where that point is on earth are not the same. I am pretty sure the military uses a little bit better computers and guidance systems. Maybe.

[Rolf Mantel]

I cycle to work in what is appropriate as cycling attire. I usually
change the (sweaty) cycling top to a t-shirt once in the office but
sometimes I forget to bring a change of clothes.

In the past, I had a pair of Jeans stored in the office in the summer
when cycling in Jeans was inconvenient. The fact that since Covid the
office is almost empty has let my standards slip here, so I was wearing
the cycling shorts all day. With everybody being orders back into the
office for at least one day a week, I might go back to ensuring I'm not
wearing shorts in the offfice next year, who knows.

[AMuzi]

That was my understanding as well. Watt's engine was sold as
power for mine pumps which were otherwise driven by horses
above ground.

[Tom Kunich]

What would give you the idea that a strategic ballistic missile is a complicated thing? During the boost phase it checks its trajectory via GPS and after that cannot be jammed. It is no more complicated than an artillery shell.

[Lou Holtman]

I didn't invent that. There are just many guidance systems apart from simple GPS tracking. I am not going to discuss this with you. Bottom line is you didn't go 147 km/hr.

Lou

[Frank Krygowski]

On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 9:54:37 AM UTC-4, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> What would give you the idea that a strategic ballistic missile is a complicated thing?

:-) Wow! That sentence of Tom's is a keeper!

- Frank Krygowski

[Frank Krygowski]

On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 11:07:07 AM UTC-4, lou.h...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> Bottom line is you didn't go 147 km/hr.

Absolutely agreed. And I'll note that since Tom believes he did coast at that speed, he must have
very, very little experience descending at high speeds. He doesn't know what he doesn't know.

- Frank Krygowski

[funkma...@hotmail.com]

On Sunday, September 11, 2022 at 11:06:16 PM UTC-4, pH wrote:
> <snip>

> >> Bikecalculator.com says that at 2500W rider output down a 25% grade, speed
> >> is 137 km/ hr. If I try to enter a gradient greater than -25% or power
> >> above 2500 W, the calculator starts doing weird shit.
> >

> > 2500 watts is 3.35 horsepower. Can human beings even generate that much power?

> I've always heard (from Homepower magazine and the like), that a standard
> man is capable of about 0.25 horsepower.
>
> 0.25 horsepower x 741 watts/horsepower = (about) 185 watts.
>
> There were often letters to the editor in Home Power saying "Why can't I
> pedal my bike w/ a generator to recharge my batteries?"
>
> They soon left with a whole new appreciation for the power embodied in a
> 50W solar panel. (typically 3.4A at 17V--less when it 'locked' to a battery
> voltage)
>
> Today's panels are 300watts or more and 30V nominal or more...they attach in
> series to controllers that can sell directLY back to the utility or
> down-convert to the battery bank...typically 48V nowadays.
>
> I have no idea the effect Lithium batteries have had...my knowledge is 20
> years out of date!
>
> pH in Aptos

There's a curve involved. 185 watts is something a reasonably normal healthy adult can sustain for about an hour on a bicycle. Peak output - a sprint - most adults without specific training can probably muster in the 500 watt range for a few seconds. Absolute power will also vary with size, it's for this reason a far more relevant metric is power to weight ratio (in cycling, generally measured as W/Kg). A 150 pound rider sustaining 300 watts will be going much faster that a 250 lb rider putting out the same wattage. That said, world-class sprinters will generate well over 1.5KW, and the most elite of sprinters will push that well past 2KW. "At 1m85 and 92kg, the now-retired Sir Chris Hoy would blast out 2500 watts as he raced round the velodrome at 80km/h" (https://www.uci.org/article/track-sprinting-a-question-of-watts/6jKNDZjuB1oWJB57g8U0H8).

Current training regimens though focus on Functional Threshold Power (FTP), as determined by a "ramp test" (https://www.trainingpeaks.com/blog/the-physiology-of-ftp-and-new-testing-protocols/).

[funkma...@hotmail.com]

Yup, according to tommy rocket science isn't very complicated but the speed algorithm on a bike computer is.

[John B.]

I believe the technical term is/was "Pit Pony" Shetland was a common
breed.
--
Cheers,

John B.

[AMuzi]

Pit ponies hauled inside the mine ( at that time often for
their whole lives). Full size horses pumped water from up top.

[Radey Shouman]

I think you are most likely correct, eg:

https://riseofcoalinbritain.wordpress.com/the-17th-century-1603-to-1712/

I was thinking of the horses or ponies used for drawing loads.

[ritzann...@gmail.com]

Alright. When I cycled to work I kept my dress/work shoes permaently at the office. I never forgot to carry suitable clothes to work.

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Tue, 13 Sep 2022 06:54:35 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:

>What would give you the idea that a strategic ballistic missile is a complicated thing? During the boost phase it checks its trajectory via GPS and after that cannot be jammed.

That might be true if the missile carried only a single warhead. These
days, MIRV missiles carry multiple warheads. Each is targeted
individually. In some models the warheads can be rapidly retargetted.
None of this would work without continuous GPS guidance:

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiple_independently_targetable_reentry_vehicle>
"In a MIRV, the main rocket motor (or booster) pushes a "bus" (see
illustration) into a free-flight suborbital ballistic flight path.
After the boost phase the bus manoeuvres using small on-board rocket
motors and a computerised inertial guidance system. It takes up a
ballistic trajectory that will deliver a re-entry vehicle containing a
warhead to a target and then releases a warhead on that trajectory. It
then manoeuvres to a different trajectory, releasing another warhead,
and repeats the process for all warheads."

"Accuracy is crucial because doubling the accuracy decreases the
needed warhead energy by a factor of four for radiation damage and by
a factor of eight for blast damage."

One does not get any kind of accuracy by turning off GPS guidance
control "during the boost phase" solely to discourage jamming. Jamming
of what? Missiles are not flown by pilots on the ground with
joysticks.

>It is no more complicated than an artillery shell.

Artillery shells now have GPS guidance.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M982_Excalibur>
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fcz3wlMtatM> (4:44)
Expensive, but that's what works if you want one shot, one hit.

Recent M-code military receivers are very resistant to jamming and
spoofing:
<https://novatel.com/solutions/anti-jamming>
More:
<https://www.google.com/search?q=jamming+resistance+gps>

[ritzann...@gmail.com]

On Wednesday, September 14, 2022 at 12:39:44 AM UTC-5, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Tue, 13 Sep 2022 06:54:35 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >What would give you the idea that a strategic ballistic missile is a complicated thing? During the boost phase it checks its trajectory via GPS and after that cannot be jammed.
> That might be true if the missile carried only a single warhead. These
> days, MIRV missiles carry multiple warheads. Each is targeted
> individually. In some models the warheads can be rapidly retargetted.
> None of this would work without continuous GPS guidance:
>
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiple_independently_targetable_reentry_vehicle>
> "In a MIRV, the main rocket motor (or booster) pushes a "bus" (see
> illustration) into a free-flight suborbital ballistic flight path.
> After the boost phase the bus manoeuvres using small on-board rocket
> motors and a computerised inertial guidance system. It takes up a
> ballistic trajectory that will deliver a re-entry vehicle containing a
> warhead to a target and then releases a warhead on that trajectory. It
> then manoeuvres to a different trajectory, releasing another warhead,
> and repeats the process for all warheads."

I don't understand Jeff. Tommy said "What would give you the idea that a strategic ballistic missile is a complicated thing?" What you wrote sounds about as simple as installing a seatpost. Oh wait. Tommy had problems with that task.

[pH]

On 2022-09-12, Rolf Mantel <ne...@hartig-mantel.de> wrote:
> Am 11.09.2022 um 23:09 schrieb Lou Holtman:
>> On Sunday, September 11, 2022 at 9:55:49 PM UTC+2, deaco...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> Today out for an attempted 4 mile run and it went ok. Then jump on bike for 25 more miles. I was misting and a little light rain. No thunder or lighting I am terrified of that stuff almost a phobia. Well I was already sweating so why not just ride in the rain? I did and it never got bad stopped and no real downpours.
>>>
>>> What amazes me is those I know the cycle who do not ride in the rain. They get on the trainer. Now I can see that if it is pouring and windy but today was calm and just light drizzle. Frankly I will take that over a sunny windy day anytime. I don't get it these guys are serious cyclist. Why not go out.
>>> Deacon mark
>> After weeks of dry a warm weather I enjoyed the windy and rainy conditions last Friday and the fog this morning. I hate 30 + C temperatures and high humidity even more. I like the spring and autumn better than the summer.
>
> Finally, the end of the heat wave (Friday was the first day I felt
> uncomfortable in the office in t-shirt and shorts)!

> The weather forecast is predicting more than an inch of rain all over
> Germany during the current week, with the center parts getting 2 inches.
>
>

I've always wondered why we call Deutschland "Germany" in English...and
why do the Deutschland'ers go along with this instead of correcting us?

pH

[John B.]

On Sun, 18 Sep 2022 04:24:55 -0000 (UTC), pH <wNOS...@gmail.org>
wrote:

The term "Germanus" or "Germani" was used as far back as the Roman
Empire. Julius Caesar used Germani to designate a group of tribes in
northeastern Gaul. The term Deutschland seems to date from about the
8th century.
--
Cheers,

John B.

[AMuzi]

Right but it referred to 'the German speaking peoples' as
Germany was not a nation until Bismark (despite earlier
attempts). Similar to Italy which was a collection of
principalities, kingdoms and occupied areas until Garibaldi.

[pH]

On 2022-09-18, John B <sloc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 18 Sep 2022 04:24:55 -0000 (UTC), pH <wNOS...@gmail.org>
> wrote:
>
>>On 2022-09-12, Rolf Mantel <ne...@hartig-mantel.de> wrote:

<snip>

>>
>>I've always wondered why we call Deutschland "Germany" in English...and
>>why do the Deutschland'ers go along with this instead of correcting us?
>>
>
>>pH
>
> The term "Germanus" or "Germani" was used as far back as the Roman
> Empire. Julius Caesar used Germani to designate a group of tribes in
> northeastern Gaul. The term Deutschland seems to date from about the
> 8th century.

Thanks, John.
If I'd paid attention in school (I was there back when they were decent) I
should have already known this...and I could have looked before I blathered
away on the keyboard...

Thank-you for taking the time to answer me, though.

pH in Aptos

[Eric Pozharski]

with <tg66im$d2nn$2...@dont-email.me> pH wrote:
> On 2022-09-12, Rolf Mantel <ne...@hartig-mantel.de> wrote:
>> Am 11.09.2022 um 23:09 schrieb Lou Holtman:
>>> On Sunday, September 11, 2022 at 9:55:49 PM UTC+2, deaco...@gmail.com wrote:

*SKIP*

>> Finally, the end of the heat wave (Friday was the first day I felt
>> uncomfortable in the office in t-shirt and shorts)! The weather
>> forecast is predicting more than an inch of rain all over Germany
>> during the current week, with the center parts getting 2 inches.
> I've always wondered why we call Deutschland "Germany" in
> English...and why do the Deutschland'ers go along with this instead of
> correcting us?

Recalling languages I've been exposed to so far neither one is even
close to "Deutschland". Anyone interested to dig deeper is welcome to
inspect all non-english wikis and find language that is closest. I
abstain from further speculations.

--
Torvalds' goal for Linux is very simple: World Domination
Stallman's goal for GNU is even simpler: Freedom