Torelli Master rims- oversized?
Dan Daniel
that they are 'tight' and that fitting tires on them is a pain. He was
going to send them back to Torelli, who was willing to accept them
(meaning that they know about this problem?). He decided not to and is
selling them for $25 each.
Is this a known problem with Torelli rims? I know that $25 is not a
steal, but it is a decent price for a rim that I have been
considering. Thanks.
Rsborno
rims and they were the hardest rims to mount tires on I have ever used. Unlaced
them and sold em cheap. I tried 3 different tires and none went on without a
MAJOR struggle. Pure garbaggio. YMMV.
Richard
Qui si parla Campagnolo
says
that they are 'tight' and that fitting tires on them is a pain. >><BR><BR>
I have build and sold many of these and I would not describe them hard to get
tires onto, not like Campagnolo or Matrix rims tough.
Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"
Dan Daniel
Campagnolo) wrote:
>ddandan-<< A local bike shop has some Torelli Master rims on sale. The owner
>says
>that they are 'tight' and that fitting tires on them is a pain. >><BR><BR>
>
>I have build and sold many of these and I would not describe them hard to get
>tires onto, not like Campagnolo or Matrix rims tough.
>
>
>
>Peter Chisholm
Any chance of this shop having a bad batch? Rsborno/Richard says that
he had major problems mounting tires on them.
The way the LBS owner talked, it might have been that Torelli knew
that there was an oversized batch that hit stores and was willing to
take them back because of this.
Any danger in trying to mount a tire on an unlaced rim? I could take
one of my tires in to the shop and try mounting it. Would I learn
anything doing this, or does lacing change the rim in ways that would
make this test useless?
Dan Daniel
Thanks. I wonder if Torelli had a bad batch that they still let go to
dealers.
Qui si parla Campagnolo
dealers. >><BR><BR>
I haven't seen any. Just looking at a stack of rims, I doubt Bill could tell
they were a 'bad batch'..They are made by Ambrosio, who have been making rims
for a while.
David Reuteler
: not like Campagnolo or Matrix rims tough.
no shit. may wanna try vittorias on the torellis-- they're the only tires i
can easily mount on my campy atlanta rims.
--
david reuteler
reut...@visi.com
Paul Kopit
<ddandan...@pacbell.net> wrote:
>Would I learn
>anything doing this, or does lacing change the rim in ways that would
>make
The Torelli Master is just a difficult rim to mount and remove tires
from. I rarely use any tools when changing out tires. I built a set
of Torelli Master rims for my tandem. I was using Pasela 700x35 or 32
tires. I had to use 2 levers and one of them was metal. With other
rims, Sun CRT 16 and Wolber 59, these tires went right on and off by
hand.
Rick Warner
Hey, at least you could find the Torelli's. Last month when I wanted to
build a wheel on them, no one had them.
If I had the opportunity at $25 each, I would grab two. Some rims are a bit
bigger than others, and some tires are a bit smaller than others. As Peter
said, Campy rims are big, as are the rims Shimano uses for their paired spoke
wheels. Michelin tires run small, so putting a Michelin on a Campy rim is
a workout. But the Vittoria Corsa CX clinchers glide right on.
- rick
Carl Fogel
Dear Dan,
The dealer thinks that the rims are bad.
The manufacturer thinks that the rims are bad.
Hmmm . . .
If the waiter and the cook both told you
that the fish wasn't fit to serve at their
restaurant, would you eat it if they lowered
the price?
Good luck,
Carl Fogel
A Muzi
> dealers. >><BR><BR>
Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
> I haven't seen any. Just looking at a stack of rims, I doubt Bill could tell
> they were a 'bad batch'..They are made by Ambrosio, who have been making rims
> for a while.
Or if some guy just ran the wrong rim liner in it. They
always mounted tires fine here.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
Dan Daniel
wrote:
So that was the strange smell in the shop, eh? I figured it was the
messenger truing his wheel, but it was a rim gone bad....
I don't know if Torelli (or the distributor?) thought or 'admitted'
that the rims were bad. The shop owner wasn't clear on this. I am not
even sure that the owner thought that the rims were defective versions
of the Masters, that he had experience of other Masters that took the
same tires with ease. It may have been that the owner was having
problems and the distributor was simply willing to take them back.
Good will, or maybe knowing that they would have no problem selling
them elsewhere?
And you are going to tell me you have never glanced at the day-old
sushi section in the store and given it just a little thought?
Carl Fogel
Dear Dan,
Actually, I have to tell you that I've never
looked at sushi. Perhaps if I'm reincarnated
as a sea otter . . .
To return to the raw analogy, if the waiter
says that maybe the fish is bad, the cook
shrugs his shoulders, and everyone else that
you've asked in the restaurant is making faces
or hurrying to the men's room . . .
On the other hand, it's just a potentially
tight rim that you've been warned will be
a beast to mount tires on, and it's only $25,
and . . .
Why not put the $25 (or $50) into rims that
the dealer thinks are good? It's your money
and your time and trouble building the wheels.
Would you bet that much on a proposition like
this in Las Vegas? If you win, congratulations.
If you lose, you can always start a thread about
what to do with a pair of bad rims that the dealer
wouldn't take back.
Carl Fogel
Tim McNamara
>> Dan-<< Thanks. I wonder if Torelli had a bad batch that they still
>> let go to dealers. >><BR><BR>
>
> Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
>
>> I haven't seen any. Just looking at a stack of rims, I doubt Bill
>> could tell they were a 'bad batch'..They are made by Ambrosio, who
>> have been making rims for a while.
>
> Or if some guy just ran the wrong rim liner in it. They always
> mounted tires fine here.
Lots of complaints on the BOB list about these rims being really hard
to mount tires on. Those guys mostly use the traditional fabric rim
tape, I suspect. Perhaps that's just a tad too thick? What rim
strips have you tended to use?
Rick Warner
Whoa there, back the assumption truck back to the loading dock.
Re-read
the original message, which you left quoted in your response. The
dealer
claimed they were oversized. The OP presumed that Torelli thought
they
were 'bad' solely because Torelli was willing to accept them as a
return. Accepting an item as a return does NOT mean that the object
is defective,
it merely means that the vendor wants to keep the dealer happy.
At this point all we know is:
1) dealer is selling rims for discounted price
2) dealer had option of returning to Torelli, but opted to sell
rather
than return.
3) dealer contends they are oversized.
Period. Anything more than that is assumption. *If* (and it is a
very BIG *if*) your assumption is correct, then we can add one more
bit of knowledge:
the dealer is willing to sell 'bad' merchandise.
Let's not get too wildly speculative here. I think it is just as
likely that
the dealer does not want to deal with the hassles of customers with
large rims/small tires, and there are lots of combinations that do not
work.
Dealer probably does not sell Campy rims/wheels either because they
are
'bad'.
- rick
David Reuteler
: Perhaps that's just a tad too thick? What rim
: strips have you tended to use?
the much cursed plastic michelins are easier, at least ime (& that's on
campy atlantas).
--
david reuteler
reut...@visi.com
Joseph Kubera
the Master at some point, making it "taller" -- presumably in response to
reported tire blowoff [?]
The point being only that there really were two different rim heights.
Joe
Carl Fogel
Dear Rick,
I hope that you don't mind if I order a steak
while you're having the fish that the waiter
says are too much trouble to return and is
selling for half-price. He said something about
them being a bit off, so I lost my appetite.
Carl Fogel
Dan Daniel
wrote:
Whoa there, back the reading truck up to the dock.... :)
In a later post, I did ask if there could be a bad batch of these
rims, but not in this exchange. But my original post was asking if
tightness is a known problem on these rims. I didn't know if this
would mean a 'bad' batch or if it was a general issue in the way that
other rims have a reputation for being difficult to mount tires on.
>Accepting an item as a return does NOT mean that the object
>is defective,
>it merely means that the vendor wants to keep the dealer happy.
>
>At this point all we know is:
>
> 1) dealer is selling rims for discounted price
> 2) dealer had option of returning to Torelli, but opted to sell
>rather
> than return.
> 3) dealer contends they are oversized.
>
'Tight' was his word :)
>Period. Anything more than that is assumption. *If* (and it is a
>very BIG *if*) your assumption is correct, then we can add one more
>bit of knowledge:
>the dealer is willing to sell 'bad' merchandise.
>
>Let's not get too wildly speculative here. I think it is just as
>likely that
>the dealer does not want to deal with the hassles of customers with
>large rims/small tires, and there are lots of combinations that do not
>work.
>Dealer probably does not sell Campy rims/wheels either because they
>are
>'bad'.
>
>- rick
All in all, I think that this is what is happening.
The shop owner did not say that the rims were defective. He said that
they were tight. From what I am hearing here, and in one email that
mentioned a change in 2000, I am heading to the impression that recent
Masters may very well be tight, and that the ones in the bike shop
near me are definitely tight. Not unusable, but .....
Thanks to everyone for their comments and experiences on these rims.
Now if I can just stop looking at a rim and smelling bad fish I'll be
able to get the parts to build up the next wheel....
A Muzi
they still
>>>let go to dealers. >><BR><BR>
>>Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
>>>I haven't seen any. Just looking at a stack of rims, I doubt Bill
>>>could tell they were a 'bad batch'..They are made by Ambrosio, who
>>>have been making rims for a while.
> A Muzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> writes:
>>Or if some guy just ran the wrong rim liner in it. They always
>>mounted tires fine here.
Tim McNamara wrote:
> Lots of complaints on the BOB list about these rims being really hard
> to mount tires on. Those guys mostly use the traditional fabric rim
> tape, I suspect. Perhaps that's just a tad too thick? What rim
> strips have you tended to use?
We haven't sold a lot of these (started with them last
spring because Montreals are off) but in 40 wheels we didn't
have any issues with mounting. Usually Michelin and some Velox.
Or maybe there really was a run of them slightly oversized.
That wouldn't mean they always and ever are too big, just
that it's conceivable at the end or beginning of a
production run (a mis-set or a worn tool?) Just speculating.
A Muzi
> rickw...@earthlink.net (Rick Warner) wrote in message
news:<bc2b2f85.0402...@posting.google.com>...
-snip->>At this point all we know is:
>> 1) dealer is selling rims for discounted price
>> 2) dealer had option of returning to Torelli, but opted
to sell
>>rather
>> than return.
>> 3) dealer contends they are oversized.
>>Period. Anything more than that is assumption.
-snip-
Carl Fogel wrote:
> I hope that you don't mind if I order a steak
> while you're having the fish that the waiter
> says are too much trouble to return and is
> selling for half-price. He said something about
> them being a bit off, so I lost my appetite.
Cute though your sub-theme may be, why don't other dealers
find that to be the case?
I'm with Rick on this
Rick Onanian
<ddandan...@pacbell.net> wrote:
>Now if I can just stop looking at a rim and smelling bad fish I'll be
That sounds like one hell of a difficult rimjob...
--
Rick Onanian
Carl Fogel
Dear Andrew,
As you said earlier in this thread, it may be a bad
batch.
You mentioned that you had no problems with 40 of
these rims, Peter Chisholm has sold "many" without
problems.
Rsborno, Tim McNamara, Dave Reuteler, and Paul Kopit
have commented that they've found it terribly hard to
mount tires on these rims.
Joe Kubera wrote that there may have been a re-design
that means that there are two different rim heights.
So the score to a casual reader like me looks like
one dealer and four posters say that this particular
batch of rims are a huge pain if you want to put tires
on them, while two dealers say that their batches have
been okay.
If for some reason I longed for a Torelli rim (the only
feature mentioned so far does not inspire desire), I'd
buy it at normal price from you or Peter, not from a
dealer who thinks that he's got such a bad batch
that he's saying so and cutting the price dramatically
to back up his opinion.
Someone has to buy the lemons, but I'd like to avoid
them. How much would you offer this dealer for his whole
batch of Torelli rims? Remember, you don't get to test
them or return them.
Carl Fogel
Qui si parla Campagnolo
these rims, Peter Chisholm has sold "many" without
Just built a pair yesterday..rims are finally available and I put a Conti GP on
one just to see...not the smallest rim I have ever seen but the tire went on
w/o problems or tools.
A Muzi
-snip-
> So the score to a casual reader like me looks like
> one dealer and four posters say that this particular
> batch of rims are a huge pain if you want to put tires
> on them, while two dealers say that their batches have
> been okay.
> Someone has to buy the lemons, but I'd like to avoid
> them. How much would you offer this dealer for his whole
> batch of Torelli rims? Remember, you don't get to test
> them or return them.
As it happens I am fascinated by the concept of secondary
markets, in theory, and I do buy seconds and closeouts
occasionally. But in rims we're pretty conservative as the
transfer cost is huge. Rims are much more costly than other
parts to ship and to return and we invest labor before we
find out of they are OK or not. $25 isn't cheap enough for me.
But, yes, someone buys lemons and there's a price at which
every trade will clear.
(When people die, their children give their clothing to
charity stores. I'm wearing some right now. Nice Italian
wool sport jacket $10 - cheaper to replace than to dry clean
these! And nice leather shoes for $5)
A Muzi
> these rims, Peter Chisholm has sold "many" without
> problems.
Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
> Just built a pair yesterday..rims are finally available and I put a Conti GP on
> one just to see...not the smallest rim I have ever seen but the tire went on
> w/o problems or tools.
Our new shipment of these should arrive here in a day or
two. We'll report then.
Paul Kopit
wrote:
>Our new shipment of these should arrive here in a day or
>two. We'll report then.
Tires will go on ok. Getting them off, in my case, was much more
difficult than normal.