Counsel on new rear derailler: Ultegra or Deore XT?
BCDrums
before I get a replacement for it.
I ride a road bike with 46-38-24 in the front and 14-25 in the back, a
9-speed setup shifted with bar ends. Total tooth difference is 33
teeth. I might switch to a low cog of 28 or 30 at some time in the
future.
Should I just slap on another Ultegra, or consider a Deore XT M772GS?
Or another Shimano "mountain bike" derailler? The bike had a Deore XT
on it originally (now deceased) and it worked perfectly, as has the
Ultegra.
I read that 10 sp. RDs are compatible with 9sp. systems, do you find
this to be true? If they are not, I am forced to buy the XT, as the
Ultegra is a 10 sp. But if the 10 sp. is 9 sp. compatible, I'd also
consider the Deore XT M780GS, a 10 speeder, as future-proofing should
I decide to go 10 sp.
My priorities are excellent performance and set-and-forget. Thanks for
your thoughts!
BC
Dan O
> My Ultegra RD6500GS was damaged and must go. I wanted pick your brains
> before I get a replacement for it.
>
Get ready to hear people say you're a sucker if you spend more than
for LX.
> I ride a road bike with 46-38-24 in the front and 14-25 in the back, a
> 9-speed setup shifted with bar ends. Total tooth difference is 33
> teeth. I might switch to a low cog of 28 or 30 at some time in the
> future.
>
My 9-speed is 48-36-twenty-something and 11-28 - also shifted w/ bar
ends.
> Should I just slap on another Ultegra, or consider a Deore XT M772GS?
> Or another Shimano "mountain bike" derailler? The bike had a Deore XT
> on it originally (now deceased) and it worked perfectly, as has the
> Ultegra.
>
My bike came w/ Deore XT M770 rear derailer. Appears to be a long
cage. Has very nice idler pulleys - ceramic bushing top w/ seals and
sealed roller bearing bottom.
> I read that 10 sp. RDs are compatible with 9sp. systems, do you find
> this to be true? If they are not, I am forced to buy the XT, as the
> Ultegra is a 10 sp. But if the 10 sp. is 9 sp. compatible, I'd also
> consider the Deore XT M780GS, a 10 speeder, as future-proofing should
> I decide to go 10 sp.
>
I know nothing of 10-speed, except that I don't see how a rear
derailer cares how many stops it makes across its range or how far
apart they are.
> My priorities are excellent performance and set-and-forget. Thanks for
> your thoughts!
>
The XT 770 gives excellent performance, though I did have to re-adjust
the hi-limit once (not sure what happened there - maybe I never had it
right in the first place, maybe cable tension changed).
I've never had Ultegra.
N8N
I'm riding w/ Ultegra on an 18 speed right now, I *think* the same
front rings as you (I forget now) and a 12-26 in the rear IIRC and am
happy with it. That said either should do you fine, I'd probably pull
the spec sheets for both of the ders. you are considering and pick the
one with the wider range.
I can't speak to the 9sp. vs. 10sp. issue.
BCDrums
> On Aug 24, 11:34 am, BCDrums <bcdr...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> > My Ultegra RD6500GS was damaged and must go. I wanted pick your brains
> > before I get a replacement for it.
>
> Get ready to hear people say you're a sucker if you spend more than
> for LX.
>
Standing by! I don't know if there is an LX any more.
> > I ride a road bike with 46-38-24 in the front and 14-25 in the back, a
> > 9-speed setup shifted with bar ends. Total tooth difference is 33
> > teeth. I might switch to a low cog of 28 or 30 at some time in the
> > future.
>
> My 9-speed is 48-36-twenty-something and 11-28 - also shifted w/ bar
> ends.
>
> > Should I just slap on another Ultegra, or consider a Deore XT M772GS?
> > Or another Shimano "mountain bike" derailler? The bike had a Deore XT
> > on it originally (now deceased) and it worked perfectly, as has the
> > Ultegra.
>
> My bike came w/ Deore XT M770 rear derailer. Appears to be a long
> cage. Has very nice idler pulleys - ceramic bushing top w/ seals and
> sealed roller bearing bottom.
>
> > I read that 10 sp. RDs are compatible with 9sp. systems, do you find
> > this to be true? If they are not, I am forced to buy the XT, as the
> > Ultegra is a 10 sp. But if the 10 sp. is 9 sp. compatible, I'd also
> > consider the Deore XT M780GS, a 10 speeder, as future-proofing should
> > I decide to go 10 sp.
>
> I know nothing of 10-speed, except that I don't see how a rear
> derailer cares how many stops it makes across its range or how far
> apart they are.
One would think. But I'd prefer to know than assume.
>
> > My priorities are excellent performance and set-and-forget. Thanks for
> > your thoughts!
>
> The XT 770 gives excellent performance, though I did have to re-adjust
> the hi-limit once (not sure what happened there - maybe I never had it
> right in the first place, maybe cable tension changed).
>
> I've never had Ultegra.
I don't think the XT 770 is available anymore, but I am sure the
current stuff is as good.
Thanks for the comments.
BC
landotter
You're overthinking it. Get a modern Shimano long cage derailleur.
There's no functional reason to get anything more expensive than a
Deore.
landotter
> On Aug 24, 11:34 am, BCDrums <bcdr...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> > My Ultegra RD6500GS was damaged and must go. I wanted pick your brains
> > before I get a replacement for it.
>
> Get ready to hear people say you're a sucker if you spend more than
> for LX.
If this was my rig and I regularly rode with a group, you bet your ass
I'd put Alivio/Altus on it. A good quite fuck you for the guys that
have a compulsion to rank your kit. Otherwise, Deore+, just for the
slightly less crude finish.
AMuzi
Ditto to Mr Otterman.
My service department is currently enamored of Deore M591,
in some large quantities. Tough, cheap, works well for a
good long while, no complaints.
--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
AMuzi
Which is why my titanium road bike has a 1963 steel Svelto:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfromthepast/amsvelto.jpg
landotter
You must have saved several grams by smoothing out the teeth on the
idler on your grinder!
landotter
I missed it the first time, but that derailleur is famous for being
vertically compliant!
Dan O
> On Aug 24, 2:31 pm, Dan O <danover...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Aug 24, 11:34 am, BCDrums <bcdr...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> > > My Ultegra RD6500GS was damaged and must go. I wanted pick your brains
> > > before I get a replacement for it.
>
> > Get ready to hear people say you're a sucker if you spend more than
> > for LX.
>
> If this was my rig and I regularly rode with a group, you bet your ass
> I'd put Alivio/Altus on it. A good quite fuck you for the guys that
> have a compulsion to rank your kit.
Never intended offense, and I *do* desire to not let compulsion get
the best of me, but I am still too hung up on high end to run very low
end if I can help it (mid-range I can live with, if it compromises
mostly bling instead of function / reliability).
I bought LX for my last bike. The XT came stock on my Surly LHT
complete bike. I do like the sealed bushing and bearing idlers (not
sure what all derailers have these nowadays). When idlers get dry or
cruddy inside, shifting can be slugglish, and these can go a long way
with just wiping the crud off the outside occasionally.
> Otherwise, Deore+, just for the
> slightly less crude finish.
Good finish usually (though not always) says to me careful
manufacturing to close tolerances and pride in workmanship.
AMuzi
Factory adjustable loose ball rollers.
That was the fashion of the era, no difference from toothed
models except looks.
p.s. Steel, not nylon, rollers and the whole thing is as
light as a modern changer.
BCDrums
Do you know which Ultegra you're using? ^500? 6600? 6700?
Thanks.
BC
landotter
> On Aug 24, 3:26 pm, landotter <landot...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Otherwise, Deore+, just for the
> > slightly less crude finish.
>
> Good finish usually (though not always) says to me careful
> manufacturing to close tolerances and pride in workmanship.
Close tolerances are close tolerances. Finish is finish. Deore and XT
are commodity parts. Pivot slop is the same. Ball bearings in takeup
wheels aren't necessarily better. Bushings are dead simple and
reliable.
If you want craftsmanship, you're not gonna find it in good cheap
derailleurs--but enjoy a domestically machined stem or hub or two.
David Scheidt
:Good finish usually (though not always) says to me careful
:manufacturing to close tolerances and pride in workmanship.
With modern parts that's a misplaced judgement. None of what you look
at matters for performance, and it's all built to a price point.
Finish makes no difference to performance, so it's the first thing to
go when the price point drops. And even dura ace stuff looks like
utter crap compared to bottom end sun tour stuff from 1977, but works
some what better, so it's really misplaced.
--
sig 44
Dan O
N8N
I want to say it's a 6600 but don't hold me to that. If I remember
I'll look tonight. It was a $30 NIB buy off eBay; I was just
searching for a decent long cage der for my build. I *didn't* use a
Deore one because all the ones I saw were black and I wanted a shiny
finish. Yeah, I know, I know, vanity etc.
It's been working more or less splendidly since the cables and
housings settled in; I'm using it with Dura-Ace downtube shifters
FWIW.
nate
N8N
And I seriously brain farted in my original post, the bike of course
has 3x9 = 27 speeds.
BCDrums
I get your point, but a little thought and consideration may not be
overthinking, If I I am lucky I won't be dealing with the rear der
again for a decade. Spending an hour or two on it now seems
reasonable.
BC
BCDrums
I'm not sure that an archaic derailler really has much FU value on a
titanium bike. It's the Ti that makes your statement.
Is that your Ti bike in the picture? Looks like a 6 speed.
BC
landotter
Sure. But when it comes to function, from a fairly low price point on
up, you're getting similar bushings and springs. After that, it's time
to talk about aesthetics. On a road bike, shiny's nice. Tiagra long
cages are the Deore of the road world. You could strip the clear coat
and take one to a buffing wheel for that shiny debadged look.
Frank Krygowski
> landotter wrote:
>> On Aug 24, 5:43 pm, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>> landotter wrote:
>>>> On Aug 24, 2:31 pm, Dan O <danover...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> On Aug 24, 11:34 am, BCDrums <bcdr...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>>> My Ultegra RD6500GS was damaged and must go. I wanted pick your
>>>>>> brains
>>>>>> before I get a replacement for it.
>>>>> Get ready to hear people say you're a sucker if you spend more than
>>>>> for LX.
>>>> If this was my rig and I regularly rode with a group, you bet your ass
>>>> I'd put Alivio/Altus on it. A good quite fuck you for the guys that
>>>> have a compulsion to rank your kit. Otherwise, Deore+, just for the
>>>> slightly less crude finish.
>>> Which is why my titanium road bike has a 1963 steel Svelto:
>>>
>>> http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfromthepast/amsvelto.jpg
>>>
>>
>> You must have saved several grams by smoothing out the teeth on the
>> idler on your grinder!
>
> Factory adjustable loose ball rollers.
>
> That was the fashion of the era, no difference from toothed models
> except looks.
>
> p.s. Steel, not nylon, rollers and the whole thing is as light as a
> modern changer.
And the aluminum version (was it the Jubilee?) was amazingly light.
Back then, I had a marathoner friend who decided to take up bicycling.
He bought a top of the line Raleigh that came with the Jubilee. So pretty!
I don't often get jealous about other's toys, but I was jealous of the
derailleur as well as the rest of the bike.
--
- Frank Krygowski
landotter
wrote:
was building a retro road bike, a modern ramped 6 speed freewheel with
a Jubilee and retrofriction shifters would be pretty much perfect.
David Scheidt
Modern shimano mountain deraileurs (I'd have to go look to know for
sure, but I think it's an altus rear and deore front.), an acera
triple, and some 8 speed cassette, friction shifted by a pair of
mis-matched bar cons. Works great. (well, the front shifter is worn
out, and won't hold cable tension, so it needs to be trimmed rather
too often, but that's not the fault of the deraileur.)
That replaced Sun-Tour stuff, excpt for freewheel and FD, which worked
fine-ish. A modern freewheel improved the shifting nearly to what I've
got now, at least in back.
--
sig 96
Lou Holtman
Tiagra is 27 euro (model 2012), a Ultegra is 60 euro (model 2012). A 33
euro difference over a lifespan of at least 5 years. ot worth this
discussion. I always say get the nicest one that you can afford.
Simple! F*ck what other people think or say.
I would get the Ultegra if you are running 14-25 in the back. It looks
nicer too and is easier to clean than the modern XT models.
Lou
russell...@yahoo.com
Alivio or whatever the bottom end is, will work perfectly with 9 or 10
or 8 or 7 speed shifters. My touring bike has 10 speed SRAM 11-32
cassette, old 7 speed DX crank arms, TA 9 speed rings, 44-33-20 rings,
10 speed Shimano 105 chain, few years old Deore 9 speed I assume rear
derailleur, 9 speed Tiagra front derailleur. Shifts perfectly.
On Aug 24, 1:34 pm, BCDrums <bcdr...@comcast.net> wrote:
Barry
> Alivio or whatever the bottom end is, will work perfectly with 9 or 10
> or 8 or 7 speed shifters.
I've read that the new 10-speed MTB components ("Dyna-Sys") use a different
cable pull and so the derailleurs will not index properly with other shifters.
Does anyone have first-hand experience with this?
AMuzi
A greybeard antique. Observed daily on my Cinelli #5 saddle.
What's on yours?
Nate Nagel
Well, I surprised myself by remembering this discussion when actually
near said bicycle and a flashlight... but I can't for the life of me
seem to answer your question. The der. just is marked "Shimano Ultegra"
and I can't seem to see any model number in it anywhere, and I haven't a
clue where the box is, if I even still have it.
nate
--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel
AMuzi
Number is on the back side of the body, RD-6XXX
Dan O
Deore XT-M770, M730, and an "Exage Country". These all just happened
to be already installed on complete bikes.
The only derailer that I ever bought separately is a Deore LX-M560 - a
highly satisfactory replacement for an early basic "SIS" from entry-
level 6-speed bike.
BCDrums
We have a winner!
I saw the Ultegra on sale at a good price and grabbed it. I put it on
today, but it's raining and I will wait until it is clear.
The 6700 is gray with a black cage where the 6500 was shiny with a
dull gray cage. Looks good on the bike. Shifts the same as the one it
replaced. Probably shifts the same as the cheapest Shimano derailer.
I wanted to adjust the b-tension, and spent quite a while at it. It's
not that obvious (to me, anyway) when the guide pulley is touching the
largest cog. The chain is between the guide pulley and the cog. But I
put a finger on the end of the cage and I could feel that it was
bumping. I backed off until the bumping went away.
Thanks for the discussion. I hope I don't need another rear der for
ten years.
BC