To continue reading RBT use Eternal September instead of Google

[Andre Jute]

When Google kicks the bucket on Usenet, nothing much changes. Google doesn't own Usenet; nobody does. But you will need a new connection to continue reading rec.bicycles.tech on Usenet. Years ago I used Eternal September, and it still seems the best option; Mr Muzi also recommends it. Here's the registration link, a painless procedure:
https://www.eternal-september.org
>
Andre Jute
A public service performed.
>

[NFN Smith]

I also participate from eternal-september, and am quite happy with it.
I use Mozilla Seamonkey as my reader

However, I have seen reports in other newsgroups that indicate that some
have had difficulties getting connections working, usually with Mozilla
Firefox.

I haven't dug into detail of anybody's specific issues, but I suspect
that problems might either be in making sure that connection encryption
is turned off or in not correctly saving password for the user ID that
e-s requires for access.

Smith

[Tom Kunich]

Apparently I registered there years ago.

[Tom Kunich]

On Tuesday, January 2, 2024 at 4:57:28 AM UTC-8, Andre Jute wrote:

I'm registered and have a password but I can't see any way to sign in,.

[AMuzi]

There are several pages like this, easily found in a search
for 'How to access Usenet'

https://www.tomsguide.com/best-picks/the-best-usenet-providers
--
Andrew Muzi
a...@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[zen cycle]

shocker....

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Tue, 2 Jan 2024 07:45:44 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
<cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:

I wrote a long reply explaining how it works. However, just as I was
almost ready to post it, I deleted the message. Much as I like being
helpful, I couldn't resist the opportunity to enjoy an RBT without Tom
and his amazing facts. Yes, I know that I'm mean, rotten, evil,
sadistic, cruel, wicked, sinful, etc. It's just that I can't resist
the opportunity.

So Tom... Sorry that I couldn't help and good luck getting your
unspecified hardware and software configured. It shouldn't be
difficult because it's been done successfully many times by many
people.

For those who RTFM, no help is needed.
For those who do not RTFM, no help is possible.

--
Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

[zen cycle]

On 1/2/2024 5:04 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Tue, 2 Jan 2024 07:45:44 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Tuesday, January 2, 2024 at 4:57:28?AM UTC-8, Andre Jute wrote:
>>> When Google kicks the bucket on Usenet, nothing much changes. Google doesn't own Usenet; nobody does. But you will need a new connection to continue reading rec.bicycles.tech on Usenet. Years ago I used Eternal September, and it still seems the best option; Mr Muzi also recommends it. Here's the registration link, a painless procedure:
>>> https://www.eternal-september.org
>>>>
>>> Andre Jute
>>> A public service performed.
>
>> I'm registered and have a password but I can't see any way to sign in,.
>
> I wrote a long reply explaining how it works. However, just as I was
> almost ready to post it, I deleted the message. Much as I like being
> helpful, I couldn't resist the opportunity to enjoy an RBT without Tom
> and his amazing facts. Yes, I know that I'm mean, rotten, evil,
> sadistic, cruel, wicked, sinful, etc. It's just that I can't resist
> the opportunity.
>
> So Tom... Sorry that I couldn't help and good luck getting your
> unspecified hardware and software configured. It shouldn't be
> difficult because it's been done successfully many times by many
> people.
>
> For those who RTFM, no help is needed.
> For those who do not RTFM, no help is possible.
>

Imagine his surprise once he figures out what it actually takes to read
news groups from ES

[Andre Jute]

I decided that Google bugging out of the Usenet is a good time for me to bugger off too, so I didn't look any further than finding the link to Eternal September. But basically the answer is that you need a newsgroup reader which links you to Eternal September, the better ones automatically using your password to sign you in. You may have to pay for the readers in Andrew's link, or look further for a free reader. IIRC, Mozilla, which yonks ago was my browser, had a free reader the last time I used Eternal September, but I don't remember it being called "Mozilla Seamonkey" as in Smith's post above.
>
Andre Jute
Thanks for all the fish. -- Douglas Adams
>

[AMuzi]

I pay nothing extra to read usenet through
eternal-september.org in my email reader, Mozilla
Thunderbird. I do pay for fiber online & telephone network
access into our building.

[Zen Cycle]

Don't you mean "Light Line"?

& telephone
> network access into our building.

--

Add xx to reply

[AMuzi]

I am not an expert but the fiber optic cable splits at a box
into telephone service and internet service, each with their
own separate wiring inside this building.

[Tom Kunich]

It must really be hell to be as stupid as you and try and make fun of that ignorance by pretending that a term you've never heard before isn't real. Do you do the same thing with "Ma" instead of "Mother"?

[Zen Cycle]

It must be hell to keep stupidly claiming The term "light line" exists
as a description for fiber optic cables when you've never been able
prove it. If you think otherwise, post a link from a reputable source
that demonstrates it's usage as common vernacular. No one here is going
to take your word for it, any more than we did that PWM is used to test
cables, until you prove otherwise from a source other than your own ass.

> Do you do the same thing with "Ma" instead of "Mother"?

Have you figured out how to log into Eternal September yet? lol....

[Tom Kunich]

https://www.fiberopticstech.com/products/light-lines/ I could have sworn you said that fiber optics are never called light lines. Any moron qouls knoq rhat a connon use for fiber optics is actually lighting things.n Light lines re for digital communications. It is simply too bad thqt never working as a reaol engineer all you can do is argue like some petty little cunt.

[zen cycle]

On 1/3/2024 5:38 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Wednesday, January 3, 2024 at 10:55:00 AM UTC-8, Zen Cycle wrote:
>> On Wednesday, January 3, 2024 at 11:02:00 AM UTC-5, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, January 3, 2024 at 6:21:44 AM UTC-8, Zen Cycle wrote:
>>>> On 1/3/2024 9:15 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I pay nothing extra to read usenet through eternal-september.org
>> in my
>>>>> email reader, Mozilla Thunderbird. I do pay for fiber online
>>>> Don't you mean "Light Line"?
>>>> & telephone
>>>>> network access into our building.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Add xx to reply
>>>
>>> It must really be hell to be as stupid as you and try and make fun of
>> that ignorance by pretending that a term you've never heard before isn't
>> real.
>> It must be hell to keep stupidly claiming The term "light line" exists
>> as a description for fiber optic cables when you've never been able
>> prove it. If you think otherwise, post a link from a reputable source
>> that demonstrates it's usage as common vernacular. No one here is going
>> to take your word for it, any more than we did that PWM is used to test
>> cables, until you prove otherwise from a source other than your own ass.
>>> Do you do the same thing with "Ma" instead of "Mother"?
>> Have you figured out how to log into Eternal September yet? lol....

Again, try to grasp the use of a spellchecker, you're typing gibberish
again.

> https://www.fiberopticstech.com/products/light-lines/ I could have sworn you said that fiber optics are never called light lines. Any moron qouls knoq rhat a connon use for fiber optics is actually lighting things.n

Congratulations! You found one application of where fiber optics are
used as a source of illumination called by a manufacturer as a "light
line". If you recall, Both Jeff and I noted that fiber optics are in
fact used for lighting in some applications. I don't think it's too much
of a stretch to find out some obscure company making fiber optic
lighting uses the term "light line" for it's line of fiber optic
lighting products.

Let's remind you what you wrote tommy:

https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/_1eEehgsDD0/m/cgRIn7ofDQAJ
"Do you think that you're impressing people using the term "fiber
optics" when the common term is light lines and even AT&T is using it? "

I also very specifically responded in that thread that I was referring
to fiber optic data communication:
https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/_1eEehgsDD0/m/w3ZiBEkjDQAJ
"No one uses the term "light lines" to describe fiber optic telecom, let
alone AT&T"

AT&T isn't using it, because Fiber optic cables used for data
communication are _not_ commonly referred to "light lines".

> Light lines re for digital communications.

No, they aren't. Your webpage is _exclusively_ dedicated to
illumination, not data communication. Did you actually read the link you
provided tommy?

"In machine vision lighting, an inexpensive projector bulb can
illuminate the entire width of a document or web. Light lines are also
used frequently to “pick-up” scattered or reflecting light from a laser
and rotating mirror combinations."

IOW, not used for data communications.

If you had read further, you'd also note this company manufactures fiber
optic patch cords: https://www.fiberopticstech.com/products/pof-patch-cords/

Take a look at that page tommy, can you take a wild guess what's
missing? I'll help you out, it's the term "light lines". Why is that?
because "light lines" is not a term used for fiber optic communications.

> It is simply too bad thqt never working as a reaol engineer all you can do is argue like some petty little cunt.

lol...did I tweak poor wittle tommy? But I have to congratulate you, you
actually did some research for a change. Too bad it doesn't prove your
claim "the common term is light lines and even AT&T is using it? "

now, how about trying for something proving PWM is a common method for
testing cables.

[sms]

On 1/3/2024 5:51 PM, zen cycle wrote:

> Congratulations! You found one application of where fiber optics are
> used as a source of illumination called by a manufacturer as a "light
> line". If you recall, Both Jeff and I noted that fiber optics are in
> fact used for lighting in some applications. I don't think it's too much
> of a stretch to find out some obscure company making fiber optic
> lighting uses the term "light line" for it's line of fiber optic
> lighting products.

This is totally different than communications over fiber-optic lines.

This is using plastic fibers as an illumination source. You see this
pretty often in consumer products.

--
“If you are not an expert on a subject, then your opinions about it
really do matter less than the opinions of experts. It's not
indoctrination nor elitism. It's just that you don't know as much as
they do about the subject.”—Tin Foil Awards

[Andre Jute]

Aw, sheet, Scharfie. From that secretarial assistant the Flunkymonkey we expect only lies and more barefaced lies and weaselling when his stupid lies are exposed, but from you, a fellow who spent his working life presumably with real electronics engineers? This is politically inspired crap of sub-manure quality. You're the idiot giving hostages to fortune with your tag-line, “If you are not an expert on a subject, then your opinions about it really do matter less than the opinions of experts," so don't blame me for pointing out your meretricious motives.
>
Personally, since I know about frequencies and waves and symbols, I have bets out on what you Klowns will screech next if I say that sending Morse Code with an Aldis lamp is also a form of communication and control by light lines, an impeccable position in physics, if you and the Flunkymonkey even know that much physics, or any of the rest of your twee mob of screeching monkeys.
>
Andre Jute
Zero tolerance for fools rabbiting-on on the net five decades after they were too shortarsed to be school bullies.
>

[Zen Cycle]

On 1/4/2024 6:54 AM, shitstain excreted more tainted and ignorant opinion:

> On Thursday, January 4, 2024 at 3:17:07 AM UTC, sms wrote:
>> On 1/3/2024 5:51 PM, zen cycle wrote:
>>
>>> Congratulations! You found one application of where fiber optics are
>>> used as a source of illumination called by a manufacturer as a "light
>>> line". If you recall, Both Jeff and I noted that fiber optics are in
>>> fact used for lighting in some applications. I don't think it's too much
>>> of a stretch to find out some obscure company making fiber optic
>>> lighting uses the term "light line" for it's line of fiber optic
>>> lighting products.
>>
>> This is totally different than communications over fiber-optic lines.
>>
>> This is using plastic fibers as an illumination source. You see this
>> pretty often in consumer products.
>>
>> --
>> “If you are not an expert on a subject, then your opinions about it
>> really do matter less than the opinions of experts. It's not
>> indoctrination nor elitism. It's just that you don't know as much as
>> they do about the subject.”—Tin Foil Awards
>>
> Aw, sheet, Scharfie. From that secretarial assistant the Flunkymonkey we expect only lies and more barefaced lies and weaselling when his stupid lies are exposed,

Care to point out the "lie", shitstain?

> but from you, a fellow who spent his working life presumably with real electronics engineers? This is politically inspired crap of sub-manure quality.

Stating that a light source transmitted through a fiber optic cable is
completely different application than data communication is "politically
inspired crap"? It's no wonder the Irish Examiner fired you and purged
all your articles.

> You're the idiot giving hostages to fortune with your tag-line, “If you are not an expert on a subject, then your opinions about it really do matter less than the opinions of experts," so don't blame me for pointing out your meretricious motives.
>>
> Personally, since I know about frequencies and waves and symbols,

Sure ya do....Care to elucidate us on the relationship between symbol
error rate and wavelength in multi-mode vs single-mode fiber optic
cables? The only thing you know is pure shit.

> I have bets out on what you Klowns will screech next if I say that sending Morse Code with an Aldis lamp is also a form of communication and control by light lines, an impeccable position in physics,

lol....sure skippy, tell us how a signalling lamp though open air
qualifies as a 'light line'.....HAHA!!! did you win your bet? Good, you
might need it to augment your public assistance

if you and the Flunkymonkey even know that much physics, or any of the
rest of your twee mob of screeching monkeys.
>>

> A̶n̶d̶r̶e̶ J̶u̶t̶e̶ shitstain
> Z̶e̶r̶o̶ t̶o̶l̶e̶r̶a̶n̶c̶e̶ f̶o̶r̶ f̶o̶o̶l̶s̶ r̶a̶b̶b̶i̶t̶i̶n̶g̶-̶o̶n̶ o̶n̶ t̶h̶e̶ n̶e̶t̶ f̶i̶v̶e̶ d̶e̶c̶a̶d̶e̶s̶ a̶f̶t̶e̶r̶ t̶h̶e̶y̶ w̶e̶r̶e̶ t̶o̶o̶ s̶h̶o̶r̶t̶a̶r̶s̶e̶d̶ t̶o̶ b̶e̶ s̶c̶h̶o̶o̶l̶ b̶u̶l̶l̶i̶e̶s̶. a writer of vanity novels and diarrhea-mouthed, long winded poster to the Usenet - where he pretends to be famous.

Oh, you mean like the sum total of your contributions from december?

- Why the Stupid 4 Celebrate Kwanzaa
- Incompetence or conspiracy? Pick any two.
- We're jingle-belling our way to nullity
- No. 113 of the Worthless Flunkymonkey's Ignorance
- No. 113c of the Worthless Flunkymonkey's Ignorance
- Who turned Portland into a hellhole?
- The Known Unknowns
- The Democrat Party
- Texas Attorney-General sues Pfizer over Vaccine

February 22 can't come soon enough for the likes of you.

[Tom Kunich]

But wait a minute. It was your claim that NO ONE used that terminology. So now it is your claim that other people whom you dislike for proving you again wrong are just a glitch in your real world view that doesn't include actually ever being a real engineer.

[Tom Kunich]

It is sort of curious that you were too stupid to bother to read that advert for lite lines since like every other stupif thing from you or Liebermannm it was
DATA and not illumination that product is designed for.

[Zen Cycle]

I read it thoroughly. There's noting on that page that states its used
for data. Every application points to illumination.
Try again sparky.

[Zen Cycle]

On 1/4/2024 9:38 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>
> But wait a minute. It was your claim that NO ONE used that terminology.

As usual, you're wrong, just like you were wrong when you wrote I
claimed one needs to understand HAzLoc to design medical equipment.
Here's the quote:

https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/_1eEehgsDD0/m/w3ZiBEkjDQAJ
"No one uses the term "light lines" to describe fiber optic telecom, let
alone AT&T"

Your link was for an illumintation accessory, not datacom.

> So now it is your claim that other people whom you dislike for proving you again wrong are just a glitch in your real world

You'd have to prove me wrong first

> view that doesn't include actually ever being a real engineer.

You would know that far better than I

[sms]

On 1/4/2024 7:20 AM, Zen Cycle wrote:

<snip>

> I read it thoroughly. There's noting on that page that states its used
> for data. Every application points to illumination.
> Try again sparky.

Yes, I designed one product that used this technology for illumination.
It's actually more expensive, in terms of components, than using an LED
but there is an advantage, in terms of assembly cost, in some cases.

No one calls the fiber optics used for high-speed data communication
"light pipes."

Tom can learn about light pipes here:
<https://www.bivar.com/resources/light-pipe-technology-and-applications/>.

[Zen Cycle]

On 1/4/2024 10:38 AM, sms wrote:
> On 1/4/2024 7:20 AM, Zen Cycle wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>> I read it thoroughly. There's noting on that page that states its used
>> for data. Every application points to illumination.
>> Try again sparky.
>
> Yes, I designed one product that used this technology for illumination.
> It's actually more expensive, in terms of components, than using an LED
> but there is an advantage, in terms of assembly cost, in some cases.
>
> No one calls the fiber optics used for high-speed data communication
> "light pipes."
>
> Tom can learn about light pipes here:
> <https://www.bivar.com/resources/light-pipe-technology-and-applications/>.
>

Tommy wasn't claiming "light pipe", he was claiming "line line".

Light pipes are well-known. I've used them in telecom to transfer
signals between rigidly fixed assemblies, but they were specifically
referred to as a 'light pipe'. Other uses were to bring a lamp from a PC
assembly out to a control panel and an indicator.

An interesting application I used very recently was a U-shaped pipe that
was intended to be immersed in translucent fluids as a fluid detector.
An IR signal sent though the pipe would travel intact through the pipe
when it was dry, but when immersed the refractive index of the pipe
would be 'broken' so the IR energy would dissipate into medium and the
phototransistor wouldn't be activated.

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Thu, 4 Jan 2024 07:38:04 -0800, sms <scharf...@geemail.com>
wrote:

>On 1/4/2024 7:20 AM, Zen Cycle wrote:
>
><snip>
>

>> I read it thoroughly. There's nothing on that page that states its used

>> for data. Every application points to illumination.
>> Try again sparky.
>
>Yes, I designed one product that used this technology for illumination.
>It's actually more expensive, in terms of components, than using an LED
>but there is an advantage, in terms of assembly cost, in some cases.

I began tracing the history of "light line" as a trademark or
wordmark. It has quite a long history (which includes a line of
bicycle components).
Start here:
<https://tmsearch.uspto.gov/search/search-information>
and inscribe "light line" (without the quotation marks) into the
search box. Hit the magnifying glass icon.
1,043,060 results for light line
564,050 dead records indicating that the "light line" trademark was
abandoned.

This is important because no company would use "light line" as a
trademark for their product, or even as a description, unless they
could insure that it was free from any potential infringement claims
within a product or service area. With the number of past and present
trademarks, that's impossible. For example, if you go to the above
"results" pages for the search, and inscribe "fiber optic" in the
"refine search" box, you'll see:
40,618 results for light line & fiber optic
for which 479,010 are live and registered. A company like AT&T
wouldn't touch such a trademark without EXCLUSIVE use within their
product area. Skimming the results, I find no trademarks for "live
line" that involve telecommunications, data communications or similar
services. Most of the list of 7,089 companies that own one of the
trademarks are for some form of illumination. Tom was able to find
one of the companies that owns one of the trademarks for "light
lines". There are plenty more, but none that I can find in the
telecom or datacom sectors.

>No one calls the fiber optics used for high-speed data communication
>"light pipes."
>
>Tom can learn about light pipes here:
><https://www.bivar.com/resources/light-pipe-technology-and-applications/>.

Drivel: Cataract surgery update. I survived the first surgery. I'm
alive and so far, all the problems are minor and temporary. My left
eye went from 20/200 to 20/30 which is an impressive improvement. At
this time, my left eye is slightly inflamed, so everything is out of
focus. There are other problems, all of which should disappear
eventually. I'll be wearing dark glass until the eye adjusts to the
increase in light. I get to repeat everything for the right eye on
Jan 17.

[Zen Cycle]

And you _still_ type better than tommy

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Wed, 3 Jan 2024 02:42:59 -0800 (PST), Andre Jute
<fiul...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>I decided that Google bugging out of the Usenet is a good time for me to bugger off too, so I didn't look any further than finding the link to Eternal September.

That seems to be a contradiction. You confirm that Google is leaving
Usenet, which is quite true. Then, you announce that this is a good
time for you to "bugger off" which I presume means that you plan to
also leave Usenet. Lastly, you indicated that your nearsighted vision
led you to Eternal-September to do something unspecified. The
shopping list of available Usenet newsgroups which you'll find on
Eternal September is a sub-set of what you can still find on Google
Groups. Private Google newsgroups and some company forums will likely
disappear on Feb 24. However, the major groups, including RBT and
most of the ALT groups, which are currently found on Google Groups,
will also be found on Eternal-September.

I don't know how far back Eternal-September stores articles. For RBT,
Google was able to produce Tom's articles back to 1992. That's 32
years (or more) of retention. I couldn't find exactly how long
Eternal-September saves old articles, but it's likely to be much less
than 32 years. If I was doing "research" in RBT, Eternal-September
would not be a good solution. Iweeka claims to have the best
retention at 5,600 days (15.3 years),
<https://www.eweka.nl/en>
which doesn't come close to Google's retention. As long as Google
Groups remains online and active, it can still be used for reading old
articles and "research". However, if and when the Google Usenet
archive disappears, all the old articles might disappear with Google.

So, are you really abandoning Usenet?

[sms]

On 1/4/2024 12:53 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

<snip>

> So, are you really abandoning Usenet?

Why are people explaining how to remain on Usenet to the biggest trolls?

[AMuzi]

If I recall, we originally accessed usenet though our ISP
(plural; changed every couple of years for a long while)
until the providers dumped usenet support. That's when we
subscribed through Motzarella.

My log says only '2008'. Motzarella changed to
'eternal-september.org' 9 January 2009.

[AMuzi]

On 1/4/2024 3:03 PM, sms wrote:
> On 1/4/2024 12:53 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>> So, are you really abandoning Usenet?
>
> Why are people explaining how to remain on Usenet to the
> biggest trolls?
>

politeness and civility mostly.

[AMuzi]

I didn't know either.

Two years:
https://www.newsgroupreviews.com/eternal-september.html

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Thu, 4 Jan 2024 15:15:34 -0500, Zen Cycle <funkm...@hotmail.com>
wrote:

> And you _still_ type better than tommy

Not really. My spelling sucks. Worse, my grammar is equally
disgusting. Use the built in spelling checker in Forte Agent:
<https://www.forteinc.com/agent/>
It catches most of the obvious errors. However, it does not catch a
bad choice of word, missing word, a spelling error that happens to be
in the Forte Agent dictionary, and grammar errors. So, I proof read
everything manually, which doesn't work. Somehow, the patchboard
wiring in my brain knows which word I should have used. My brain
provides the correct word, instead of reading the spelling mistake,
and the mistake appears in the posted text.

To prevent this from happening, I wait at least 15 minutes after I
write something to post it. The longer the better. Forte Agent has a
"Send message later" feature which makes this possible. However,
sometimes I'm in a hurry and don't add a delay. Or, I hit "Send now"
without any checking. Those messages look about the same as Tom's.

What's interesting about such error correcting is that it offers some
insight into how Tom thinks. Tom seems to be writing for his own
consumption with little or no consideration for the reader. He knows
he's making mistakes, but doesn't seem concerned. In contrast to Tom,
I evaluate what a typical (or specific) reader might prefer and do my
best to accommodate their preferences and abilities.

Why Tom tolerates the spelling errors is fairly simple. Tom feels
compelled to inject his opinions into literally every thread and
conversation in RBT. Maintaining such a high output level is
difficult, especially with all of Tom's other activities. Quality
writing takes some added time. I suspect that Tom is trading time
that should be spent "polishing" his writing on maintaining the
quantity of his output. Tom should reduce his output by eliminating
all the ill considered one or two line replies, and use the time to
fix his spelling and grammar.

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Thu, 4 Jan 2024 13:03:28 -0800, sms <scharf...@geemail.com>
wrote:

>On 1/4/2024 12:53 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>
><snip>
>
>> So, are you really abandoning Usenet?
>
>Why are people explaining how to remain on Usenet to the biggest trolls?

Ask Andre, not me. I made my position clear in:
<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/lI1oWhUWESM/m/mIAQMWl0BAAJ>
"Much as I like being helpful, I couldn't resist the opportunity to
enjoy an RBT without Tom and his amazing facts. Yes, I know that I'm
mean, rotten, evil, sadistic, cruel, wicked, sinful, etc"

So far, I haven't posted anything that might helpful to Tom.

[Jeff Liebermann]

Where does it say two year? All I see is:
"Retention is currently 2 years for de.*, 160 days for the Big 8, 130
days for alt.* and 90 days for other hierarchies."

RBT is one of the big 8 newsgroups and if the above is correct,
retention is only 160 days.

[Tom Kunich]

You are correct. When Usenet was dying because people were tired of Jobst, I decided to stick around. But with the Stupid 4+1 the usefulness of "Usenet has finally reached its limit. These people are not bicyclists. They certainly aren't their claims of being engineers. I would be surprised if Krygowski graduated even ONE student that went on to make a living as an engineer. Liebermann thinks of himself as well respected. He should probably sell his resume to a standup commedian. Flunky is doing his best to end a 37 year old company. I cannot even imagine taking money from a company to play on the internet. Slocomb was never anything so why did he ever post here? And Scharf has gone back to his old habit of posting without thinking. If indeed he was working as an EE how would he, like Flunky have all day to post?

I think that now that I figured Eternal-September out and could post through them, the only one with anything worth saying is Andrew and I'm not going to spend my time on Usenet for one man. So long and thanks for all the fish.

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Thu, 4 Jan 2024 13:40:58 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
<cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:

>I think that now that I figured Eternal-September out and could post through them,

You're still posting through Google Groups.

>the only one with anything worth saying is Andrew and I'm not going to spend my
>time on Usenet for one man.

Goodbye. However, if you were a real leader, you would stick around
until Feb 24 and go down with the sinking ship.

>So long and thanks for all the fish.

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/So_Long,_and_Thanks_for_All_the_Fish>

[AMuzi]

On 1/4/2024 3:38 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Thu, 4 Jan 2024 15:09:58 -0600, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>
>> On 1/4/2024 2:53 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>>> " I don't know how far back Eternal-September stores articles."
>>
>> I didn't know either.
>>
>> Two years:
>> https://www.newsgroupreviews.com/eternal-september.html
>
> Where does it say two year? All I see is:
> "Retention is currently 2 years for de.*, 160 days for the Big 8, 130
> days for alt.* and 90 days for other hierarchies."
>
> RBT is one of the big 8 newsgroups and if the above is correct,
> retention is only 160 days.
>

OK 'up to two years'
Frankly I can't recall searching for an old usenet post.

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Thu, 4 Jan 2024 16:24:05 -0600, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 1/4/2024 3:38 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>> On Thu, 4 Jan 2024 15:09:58 -0600, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>
>>> On 1/4/2024 2:53 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>>>> " I don't know how far back Eternal-September stores articles."
>>>
>>> I didn't know either.
>>>
>>> Two years:
>>> https://www.newsgroupreviews.com/eternal-september.html
>>
>> Where does it say two year? All I see is:
>> "Retention is currently 2 years for de.*, 160 days for the Big 8, 130
>> days for alt.* and 90 days for other hierarchies."
>>
>> RBT is one of the big 8 newsgroups and if the above is correct,
>> retention is only 160 days.

>OK 'up to two years'

I read that to be only in the de.* (Germany) domain. However, even at
2 years, it's considerably shorter than what Google currently stores.

>Frankly I can't recall searching for an old usenet post.

In RBT, I dig up old postings mostly to embarrass Tom. In other
groups, I use it to obtain some historical background on some project.
I don't know the frequency of such lookups, but I do know that the
archived files will be missed if Google removes them. Maybe if Google
gives everything to archive.org? What I won't miss is the marginally
useful Google Groups search.
<https://archive.org/details/usenet-rec.bicycles>
<https://archive.org/details/usenet>

[AMuzi]

In the occasional web search I will see comments and
conversation from Mr Brandt or Mr Brown (or myself) on RBT
mirrored to other sites. Not usually helpful (as I have
already read or written the RBT content) but most specific
tech questions seem retrievable.

The other purpose doesn't interest me. YMMV

[zen cycle]

On 1/4/2024 4:40 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>
> You are correct. When Usenet was dying because people were tired of Jobst,

So millions of users of the some 120,000 newsgroups on usenet were all
leaving because of Jobst Brandt......sure.

> I decided to stick around. But with the Stupid 4+1 the usefulness of "Usenet has finally reached its limit. These people are not bicyclists.

Of course not. You, Andrew, and maybe Lou and the Reverend Cleary are
the only real bike riders in this forum, the rest of us can't even stay
up on two wheels....

> They certainly aren't their claims of being engineers.

Tommy can't stand the fact that every time he posts non-cycling
nonsense, he gets called out on it.

> I would be surprised if Krygowski graduated even ONE student that went on to make a living as an engineer.

oh, c'mon...At least two or three...

> Liebermann thinks of himself as well respected. He should probably sell his resume to a standup commedian.

If he isn't well-respected, can you imagine how little respect we have
for you?

> Flunky is doing his best to end a 37 year old company.

Well, it's 87 years, but who's counting....And if I was doing my best to
destroy my company, I certainly wouldn't have time to post in RBT

> I cannot even imagine taking money from a company to play on the internet.

yup, that's what I do at "work"...I play on the internet aaalllll
daaaaay looooong.

> Slocomb was never anything so why did he ever post here?

Same reason as you, I guess

> And Scharf has gone back to his old habit of posting without thinking. If indeed he was working as an EE how would he, like Flunky have all day to post?

a few posts a day is "all day to post"? Hint, look up "multi-tasking"

> I think that now that I figured Eternal-September out and could post through them

um...no, you can't. There's an important piece to that equation you're
missing.

> the only one with anything worth saying is Andrew

Damn! Andre just got SLAPPED!!!

> and I'm not going to spend my time on Usenet for one man.

Geeze, I guess there's no love lost for Mr. Muzi either. Are you gonna
be OK Andrew?

> So long and thanks for all the fish.

It's extremely poor form to quote without attribution (some call it
plagiarism), even more poor form when you have absolutely no idea what
it means.

[Frank Krygowski]

On 1/4/2024 3:08 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>

> Drivel: Cataract surgery update. I survived the first surgery. I'm
> alive and so far, all the problems are minor and temporary. My left
> eye went from 20/200 to 20/30 which is an impressive improvement. At
> this time, my left eye is slightly inflamed, so everything is out of
> focus. There are other problems, all of which should disappear
> eventually. I'll be wearing dark glass until the eye adjusts to the
> increase in light. I get to repeat everything for the right eye on
> Jan 17.

Congratulations on the successful operation. Hope the right eye goes
well too.

--
- Frank Krygowski

[Frank Krygowski]

On 1/4/2024 4:40 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:

> I would be surprised if Krygowski graduated even ONE student that went on to make a living as an engineer.

Then you should feel very, very surprised. Our placement rate was
excellent, as verified by the national accreditation agency.

(Yes, I know some members of the Peanut Gallery will demand names. They
know where they can stuff their demands.)

--
- Frank Krygowski

[Catrike Ryder]

On Thu, 04 Jan 2024 12:08:42 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>
wrote:

It took me a year before I could stand to be out in the sunlight
without sun glasses. Good luck with the other eye.

[sms]

On 1/4/2024 2:50 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

<snip>

> In RBT, I dig up old postings mostly to embarrass Tom. In other
> groups, I use it to obtain some historical background on some project.
> I don't know the frequency of such lookups, but I do know that the
> archived files will be missed if Google removes them. Maybe if Google
> gives everything to archive.org? What I won't miss is the marginally
> useful Google Groups search.

It is sometimes useful to find old posts. Not sure what your upside is
is in embarrassing Tom, it's like shooting fish in a barrel.

[Mark Cleary]

On Wednesday, January 3, 2024 at 8:15:31 AM UTC-6, AMuzi wrote:
> On 1/3/2024 4:42 AM, Andre Jute wrote:
> > On Tuesday, January 2, 2024 at 3:45:47 PM UTC, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >> On Tuesday, January 2, 2024 at 4:57:28 AM UTC-8, Andre Jute wrote:
> >>> When Google kicks the bucket on Usenet, nothing much changes. Google doesn't own Usenet; nobody does. But you will need a new connection to continue reading rec.bicycles.tech on Usenet. Years ago I used Eternal September, and it still seems the best option; Mr Muzi also recommends it. Here's the registration link, a painless procedure:
> >>> https://www.eternal-september.org
> >>>>
> >>> Andre Jute
> >>> A public service performed.
> >>>>
> >> I'm registered and have a password but I can't see any way to sign in,.
> >>
> > I decided that Google bugging out of the Usenet is a good time for me to bugger off too, so I didn't look any further than finding the link to Eternal September. But basically the answer is that you need a newsgroup reader which links you to Eternal September, the better ones automatically using your password to sign you in. You may have to pay for the readers in Andrew's link, or look further for a free reader. IIRC, Mozilla, which yonks ago was my browser, had a free reader the last time I used Eternal September, but I don't remember it being called "Mozilla Seamonkey" as in Smith's post above.
> >>
> > Andre Jute
> > Thanks for all the fish. -- Douglas Adams
> >>
> I pay nothing extra to read usenet through
> eternal-september.org in my email reader, Mozilla
> Thunderbird. I do pay for fiber online & telephone network
> access into our building.

> --
> Andrew Muzi
> a...@yellowjersey.org
> Open every day since 1 April, 1971

I do same thing Andrew and is works well. Also, hopefully like us a bit south winter has been ok.
Deacon Mark

[sms]

On 1/4/2024 3:10 PM, zen cycle wrote:
> On 1/4/2024 4:40 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>
>> You are correct. When Usenet was dying because people were tired of
>> Jobst,
>
> So millions of users of the some 120,000 newsgroups on usenet were all
> leaving because of Jobst Brandt......sure.

LOL, I know that Jobst constantly pointed out Tom's mistakes, but no one
left because of Jobst embarrassing Tom.

[John B.]

An interesting question is how would tommy, living in a cruddy part of
a small California town (pop - 19,000) discover what a bloke in the
N.E. corner of Massachusetts is doing?

Does he, in the dark of the moon, creep up on the roof of his garage,
flap - his wings a fly away off to the East coast? Or perhaps he is
jet powered? After a supper of beans and beer, up on the roof, pants
down, bend over and Bbbraaaaappppp, he blasts off, leaving a brown
streak all the way to Massachusetts.

Ridiculous? Certainly. Just as are tommy's posts.
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Zen Cycle]

On 1/4/2024 7:13 PM, sms wrote:
> On 1/4/2024 2:50 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>> In RBT, I dig up old postings mostly to embarrass Tom.  In other
>> groups, I use it to obtain some historical background on some project.
>> I don't know the frequency of such lookups, but I do know that the
>> archived files will be missed if Google removes them.  Maybe if Google
>> gives everything to archive.org?  What I won't miss is the marginally
>> useful Google Groups search.
>
> It is sometimes useful to find old posts. Not sure what your upside is
> is in embarrassing Tom, it's like shooting fish in a barrel.
>

From my perspective it's to counter tom and shitstains claims of what
they thought/wished I wrote versus what I actually did write, as well as
what they claimed they wrote, versus what they actually did write.

[Zen Cycle]

It's actually not that hard. I've listed my hometown many many times
(even though he claims I haven't). I've listed race results and strava
activities (even though he claims I don't actually ride), and I've
listed what industry I work in. From there, it shouldn't be hard for
anyone with a little motivation, basic internet skills, and moderate
intellect to essentially figure out my identity and what company I work
for. However, tom's acumen in all three aspect are rather dreadful. This
is how we know with a high level of certainty that he won't be able to
figure out how to participate in usenet after the 22nd of february - he
simply won't be able to figure it out - unless of course someone sets it
up for him.

>
> Does he, in the dark of the moon, creep up on the roof of his garage,
> flap - his wings a fly away off to the East coast? Or perhaps he is
> jet powered? After a supper of beans and beer, up on the roof, pants
> down, bend over and Bbbraaaaappppp, he blasts off, leaving a brown
> streak all the way to Massachusetts.

[Zen Cycle]

On 1/4/2024 8:00 PM, John B. wrote:
>

> An interesting question is how would tommy, living in a cruddy part of
> a small California town (pop - 19,000) discover what a bloke in the
> N.E. corner of Massachusetts is doing?
>
> Does he, in the dark of the moon, creep up on the roof of his garage,
> flap - his wings a fly away off to the East coast? Or perhaps he is
> jet powered? After a supper of beans and beer, up on the roof, pants
> down, bend over and Bbbraaaaappppp, he blasts off, leaving a brown
> streak all the way to Massachusetts.

_Now_ you're singing my tune!

Why, is Tommy our very own Studebaker Hoch?!?!

https://youtu.be/4XsuYMtnCKY?si=56q8hStAxvo8ggJP

@ 10:50

Now, some folks say he looked like ZUBIN MEHTA
Still others say bullshit honey, He's just another greasy guy who
happened to be born next to the Frozen Beef Pies at BONEY'S MARKET.
Still others say piss on you, Jack! He's just a crazy Italian who drove
a red car.
You see, Nobody ever really knew for sure, Because STUDEBAKER was so
mysterious...
He was so (He was so, he was so!)
Mysterious!
He was so (He was so, he was so!)
Mysterious!

'Cuz when a person gets to be such a hero, folks, And marvelous beyond
compute,
You can never really tell about a guy like that
Whether he's really a nice person Or if he just smiles a lot
Or if he has a son named "PINOCCHIO", or what?

Some men say he could fly
Some men say he could swim
Others say he could sing like NEIL SEDAKA,
And all the girls in FLUSHING would be amazed of him

@ 15:35

So many rumors have spread about STUDEBAKER HOCH! Consider this rumor
which was published about three weeks ago in ROLLING STONE ("Oh, it's
gotta be true!"): STUDEBAKER HOCH can write the Lord's Prayer on the
head of a pin!

@ 17:00

Boldly springing into action, he phoned his wife (who ran a modeling
school), whereupon he ran around the back of the Broadway at Hollywood
Boulevard and Vine to see if he could find himself some big large,
un-used cardboard boxes; after which, he hit up the RALPH'S on Sunset
for some 'AUNT JEMIMA SYRUP', some 'KAISER BROILER FOIL', and a pair of
blunt scissors! Yes! Yes, and in the parking lot of RALPH'S, (where "no
prices are lower prices than RALPH'S") in between a pair of customized
trucks where nobody was looking, he cut out some really, really, really
nice wings, and he covered them thoroughly with foil! Then he took those
wings and wedged one under each of his powerful arms and sneaked into a
telephone booth. Then he pulled down his blue denim policeman type
trouser pants, and he spread even amounts of AUNT JEMIMA maple syrup all
over the inside of his legs! Soon the booth was filling with flies!
("Help me, help me, help me!") He held open the legs of his boxer shorts
so they could all get in, and when each and every one of those little
cocksuckin' flies had gone into his pants, and they were lapping up all
that maple syrup, he bent over and he put his head between his legs and
he said in a very clear, impressive, RON HUBBARD-type voice: "NEW YORK!"
And the booth and everything lifted up, out of the parking lot, and into
the sky!

(Libretto courtesy of Zappa Wiki
(https://wiki.killuglyradio.com/wiki/Billy_The_Mountain))

> Ridiculous? Certainly. Just as are tommy's posts.

Which are certainly more ridiculous than a Frank Zappa Musical vignette.

[Andre Jute]

Don't give up your day job to become a comedian. I'd say you're tenth rate, but that would be an insult to the merely tenth-rate.
>
Unsigned out of contempt/
>

[Zen Cycle]

On 1/5/2024 10:32 AM, shitstain embarrassed itself once again:

> On Friday, January 5, 2024 at 1:09:59 PM UTC, Zen Cycle wrote:
>>
>> Why, is Tommy our very own Studebaker Hoch?!?!
>>
>> https://youtu.be/4XsuYMtnCKY?si=56q8hStAxvo8ggJP
>>

<snip>

>>
>> (Libretto courtesy of Zappa Wiki
>> (https://wiki.killuglyradio.com/wiki/Billy_The_Mountain))
>>> Ridiculous? Certainly. Just as are tommy's posts.
>> Which are certainly more ridiculous than a Frank Zappa Musical vignette.
>>
> Don't give up your day job to become a comedian. I'd say you're tenth rate, but that would be an insult to the merely tenth-rate.

read the snipped version above, shitstain. I didn't compose any of that,
and gave appropriate links and attribution. It was considerably more
entertaining and provocative than anything you've ever 'contributed'
anywhere.

>>
> Unsigned out of contempt/

More likely out of embarrassment to admit you made such a stupid
mistake. Not to worry, we're use to stupid mistakes and lies from you on
a regular basis.

[Roger Merriman]

Mine is 15 years apparently, can’t say I’ve ever looked for a post that
old! But it doesn’t have off days or missing posts like Eternal September
which is why I use it.

https://www.newsgroupreviews.com/easynews-review.html

Roger Merriman

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Thu, 04 Jan 2024 18:48:53 -0500, Catrike Ryder
<Sol...@old.bikers.org> wrote:

>It took me a year before I could stand to be out in the sunlight
>without sun glasses. Good luck with the other eye.

Ouch. That doesn't sound like much fun. 3 days after surgery, it no
longer hurts when I look at bright house lights. However, I haven't
tried full sunlight yet. I live in the deep dark forest which helps.
Double vision and my ability to focus properly are changing (for the
better) which is good. Everything that was giving me problems prior
to surgery is slowly returning to normal. I haven't tried driving or
full sunlight yet. I'll know more in a few days.

"10 Cataract Surgery Side Effects, and How to Cope"
<https://www.aao.org/eye-health/tips-prevention/side-effects-cataract-surgery-complications-cope>
"Light sensitivity after cataract surgery.
Sometimes, you may need to wear sunglasses for a few months until
iritis goes away. Most often it is caused by a "rebound" as you taper
off your anti-inflammatory drops."

Months? Argh.
We'll soon see if my luck holds. Thanks for the warning.

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Thu, 4 Jan 2024 16:13:01 -0800, sms <scharf...@geemail.com>
wrote:

>On 1/4/2024 2:50 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
><snip>
>> In RBT, I dig up old postings mostly to embarrass Tom. In other
>> groups, I use it to obtain some historical background on some project.
>> I don't know the frequency of such lookups, but I do know that the
>> archived files will be missed if Google removes them. Maybe if Google
>> gives everything to archive.org? What I won't miss is the marginally
>> useful Google Groups search.

>It is sometimes useful to find old posts. Not sure what your upside is
>is in embarrassing Tom, it's like shooting fish in a barrel.

Upside? Well, I do derive some sadistic pleasure in denouncing Tom's
lies using evidence extracted from his own RBT postings from the past.
I also derive some educational benefits from the online research
required to demonstrate that Tom is wrong, lying, or both. I've
learned quite a bit about an amazing variety of topics not found in
cycling from this research. Occasionally, I post something about
Tom's motivations, character, integrity, reputation, abilities,
knowledge, history, etc. Mostly, they're psychological studies
comparing the image Tom attempts to project, with the image found in
his past RBT history, and with reality. Much of that was dredged out
of Tom's history on RBT dating back to at least 1992. For example,
Tom claimed to have posted his DOWNHILL speeds on Palomares Road. He
did mention some rides on this road, but they were all UPHILL rides. I
would not have been able to perform this feat of debunkery without
access to the RBT archives.

I don't know why you think this is "like shooting fish in a barrel".
It's not easy finding such information, especially using Google Groups
broken search. I've had to create a collection of quotes and links so
that I could find articles that might be used in the future for
embarrassing Tom. Try finding one of your own postings using Google
Groups search and see if you still think it's easy.

One think nice about reading Tom's amazing claims is that it's
excellent training for chatting with an AI. An AI is not smart or
intelligent. All it does is group words that might be associated with
a few terms found in a question. It doesn't "know" if its answer is
right, wrong, hilarious or stupid. It's like asking an
auto-completion feature in a word processor for an answer when all it
can provide is what typically comes next. Well, that's Tom. I didn't
notice this until now because I was overly concerned whether Tom was
right or wrong. I hadn't considered the possibility that Tom
literally did not care or even notice that he was wrong. It didn't
matter to Tom, so he just continued on like nothing had happened. The
best I could expect was that Tom would abandon or change the topic,
only to have him recycle his mistakes in their original form a week
later. Welcome to CHAT-RBT.

What did I do Friday evenings before I discovered the internet?

[Catrike Ryder]

On Fri, 05 Jan 2024 19:52:46 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>
wrote:

>On Thu, 04 Jan 2024 18:48:53 -0500, Catrike Ryder
><Sol...@old.bikers.org> wrote:
>
>>It took me a year before I could stand to be out in the sunlight
>>without sun glasses. Good luck with the other eye.
>
>Ouch. That doesn't sound like much fun. 3 days after surgery, it no
>longer hurts when I look at bright house lights. However, I haven't
>tried full sunlight yet. I live in the deep dark forest which helps.
>Double vision and my ability to focus properly are changing (for the
>better) which is good. Everything that was giving me problems prior
>to surgery is slowly returning to normal. I haven't tried driving or
>full sunlight yet. I'll know more in a few days.
>
>"10 Cataract Surgery Side Effects, and How to Cope"
><https://www.aao.org/eye-health/tips-prevention/side-effects-cataract-surgery-complications-cope>
>"Light sensitivity after cataract surgery.
>Sometimes, you may need to wear sunglasses for a few months until
>iritis goes away. Most often it is caused by a "rebound" as you taper
>off your anti-inflammatory drops."
>
>Months? Argh.
>We'll soon see if my luck holds. Thanks for the warning.

A year and a half after my cataract surgery I can tolerate direct
sunlight without sunglasses, but I still prefer sunglasses outdoors,
or when driving. I'm lucky in that I don't need corrective lenses so
drugstore sunglasses are fine for most occasions, although I have
wraparounds for biking.