Kerflackin’ cantilever brakes

[Ralph Barone]

I had managed to get the Tektro Oryx brakes on my Surly Long Haul Trucker
adjusted to the point where I got adequate braking and no howling, but I
saw a set of Tektro CR-720 wide profile cantis for sale locally, so I
picked them up to see if they could give me a bit better braking. I did a
test fit on the front to see how they looked and immediately noticed that
they will interfere with the front panniers. I MIGHT be able to drop the
rack a half inch or so to get some clearance back, but it’s going to be an
issue regardless. If you have a bike which doesn’t have fenders, racks or
lights, I would agree that you probably have enough adjustment room to make
cantis work, but if you have all three (and a frame which has lots of space
for wider tires), you start getting painted into corners.

[Sir Ridesalot]

Sounds like that might be one of the major reasons why some bicycling tourists want disc brakes on their bikes?

Cheers

[Roger Merriman]

Certainly solves the will the brake clear the tire question!

I never found canti worked well on the CX bike though okay on the MTB for
values of okay!

Ie used on road with slicks my old MTB with canti brakes felt fairly good
actually, less so off road where they always lacked power.

Roger Merriman.

[Ralph Barone]

Well, disks do have their own rack interference issues. It’s certainly a
reason why low profile cantilever brakes exist, but then low profile cantis
have their own setup issues. The moral of the story to me is that if I
decide that I want a certain combination of features, I’ll discover that
nobody makes it (or at least, not for a reasonable price).

[Frank Krygowski]

On 8/8/2022 10:15 AM, Ralph Barone wrote:
> Sir Ridesalot <i_am_cyc...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>> On Monday, August 8, 2022 at 1:23:47 a.m. UTC-4, Ralph Barone wrote:
>>> I had managed to get the Tektro Oryx brakes on my Surly Long Haul Trucker
>>> adjusted to the point where I got adequate braking and no howling, but I
>>> saw a set of Tektro CR-720 wide profile cantis for sale locally, so I
>>> picked them up to see if they could give me a bit better braking. I did a
>>> test fit on the front to see how they looked and immediately noticed that
>>> they will interfere with the front panniers.

That's why I switched to low profile cantis. Only my mountain bike still
has L-shaped cantis.

>>> I MIGHT be able to drop the
>>> rack a half inch or so to get some clearance back, but it’s going to be an
>>> issue regardless. If you have a bike which doesn’t have fenders, racks or
>>> lights, I would agree that you probably have enough adjustment room to make
>>> cantis work, but if you have all three (and a frame which has lots of space
>>> for wider tires), you start getting painted into corners.

It depends. My mountain bike does have fenders and wide tires. It does
have a rear rack, but I've never put panniers on it.

>> Sounds like that might be one of the major reasons why some bicycling
>> tourists want disc brakes on their bikes?
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>
> Well, disks do have their own rack interference issues.

Indeed! Plenty of ingenuity has been spent to fit racks around disc brakes.

> It’s certainly a
> reason why low profile cantilever brakes exist, but then low profile cantis
> have their own setup issues. The moral of the story to me is that if I
> decide that I want a certain combination of features, I’ll discover that
> nobody makes it (or at least, not for a reasonable price).

Those Shimano Altus cantilevers are still available at Nashbar for about
$11 per set. That sounds like a _very_ reasonable price to me. I can see
supporting a LBS instead of Nashbar, but not when a problem gets this
complicated.

--
- Frank Krygowski

[Roger Merriman]

Frank Krygowski <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> On 8/8/2022 10:15 AM, Ralph Barone wrote:
>> Sir Ridesalot <i_am_cyc...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>>> On Monday, August 8, 2022 at 1:23:47 a.m. UTC-4, Ralph Barone wrote:
>>>> I had managed to get the Tektro Oryx brakes on my Surly Long Haul Trucker
>>>> adjusted to the point where I got adequate braking and no howling, but I
>>>> saw a set of Tektro CR-720 wide profile cantis for sale locally, so I
>>>> picked them up to see if they could give me a bit better braking. I did a
>>>> test fit on the front to see how they looked and immediately noticed that
>>>> they will interfere with the front panniers.
>
> That's why I switched to low profile cantis. Only my mountain bike still
> has L-shaped cantis.
>
>
>>>> I MIGHT be able to drop the
>>>> rack a half inch or so to get some clearance back, but it’s going to be an
>>>> issue regardless. If you have a bike which doesn’t have fenders, racks or
>>>> lights, I would agree that you probably have enough adjustment room to make
>>>> cantis work, but if you have all three (and a frame which has lots of space
>>>> for wider tires), you start getting painted into corners.
>
> It depends. My mountain bike does have fenders and wide tires. It does
> have a rear rack, but I've never put panniers on it.
>
>>> Sounds like that might be one of the major reasons why some bicycling
>>> tourists want disc brakes on their bikes?
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>>
>>
>> Well, disks do have their own rack interference issues.

Can’t say I’ve noticed! I went into bike shop asked for a rack for the MTB
they sold me one, end of story it’s been there since 2014 done 20k miles
give or take. Is showing some wear marks where the panniers have rubbed,
most tedious has been getting a mudguards at least for the rear.

>
> Indeed! Plenty of ingenuity has been spent to fit racks around disc brakes.
>
>> It’s certainly a
>> reason why low profile cantilever brakes exist, but then low profile cantis
>> have their own setup issues. The moral of the story to me is that if I
>> decide that I want a certain combination of features, I’ll discover that
>> nobody makes it (or at least, not for a reasonable price).
>
> Those Shimano Altus cantilevers are still available at Nashbar for about
> $11 per set. That sounds like a _very_ reasonable price to me. I can see
> supporting a LBS instead of Nashbar, but not when a problem gets this
> complicated.
>

Roger Merriman

[ritzann...@gmail.com]

Avid Shorty 6 cantilever brakes are what I use on my loaded touring bike with racks and fenders. No problem with panniers clearance.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/165409735434?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D1110006%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.SIM%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20200818143230%26meid%3D64ac9dfab864443ab9aade21f32733e4%26pid%3D101224%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D5%26sd%3D165595379269%26itm%3D165409735434%26pmt%3D0%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2047675%26algv%3DDefaultOrganicWeb%26brand%3DAvid&_trksid=p2047675.c101224.m-1

They don't seem to be made anymore. Not surprising I guess. If something works good, discontinue it.

[Ralph Barone]

Checked out two local stores and they had no stock, so Nashbar it is.
Cantis are officially extinct as far as I can tell. It’s just V-brakes and
disks on the shelves now. I may as well be looking for cottered cranks or
chromed rims.

[Frank Krygowski]

Interesting. Today we went shopping for a kid/teen bike. Direct pull
cantis seem to be the default. Discs are on only a very few in the size
range we need.


--
- Frank Krygowski

[Frank Krygowski]

Ya gotta stay in fashion!

--
- Frank Krygowski

[Ralph Barone]

“Direct pull cantilevers” = “V-brakes”

But due to different pull ratios, even though they mount on the same same
studs, they’re essentially incompatible with each other unless you use
short arm V-brakes or a Travel Agent.

[ritzann...@gmail.com]

I put my new Avid cantilevers on about 15-16-17 or so years ago. And loaded touring bikes have never ever been exactly fashionable. So I'm not too worried about keeping up with fashion with that particular bike. It does have a 10 speed cassette. Big improvement from the awful horrible under cogged 7 speed it used to have!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And STI now too!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Of course it still has 1991 crankset arms. Over 30 years old!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And equally old hubs with manually made and laced 3 cross spoke pattern. I am somewhat surprised the wheels even go around in circles anymore.

[Tom Kunich]

There are MTB V-brakes and cyclocross V-brakes. On CX bikes, there is a different position of lever and pad. Using the proper brake for the proper use doesn't require anything like travel agents or such.

[ritzann...@gmail.com]

Poor dumb Tommy. He does not know what he is talking about. And tries to correct someone who does. Tommy, V brakes with the long arms are called V brakes. They are used, or were used, on mountain bikes. The shorter armed V brakes are called Mini V brakes. Note the Mini designation. Or short arm as Ralph Barone says. So on a cyclocross bike, use the long regular normal V brakes with the Travel Agent pulley. Or use cantilever brakes.

Tommy, V brakes, and Mini V brakes are not the same thing. You cannot just say V brakes and refer to both types. They are not the same brakes.

Here is an article by Lennard Zinn about the different brakes and the pull ratio.
https://www.velonews.com/gear/mountain-gear/tech-faq-to-v-or-canti-thats-the-question/