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Crochet vs hook-bead rims
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Mark J.
Jan 14, 2020, 12:10:48 PM1/14/20
to
So I learned (?) something new (?) today reading Lennard Zinn's column
at Velonews:
https://www.velonews.com/2020/01/technical-faq/technical-faq-specialized-turbo-2bliss-tire-blowoff_503717
What I learned was the term "crochet-type rim".
Looking it up, some sources say this is just another name for hook-bead,
BUT:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_5775#Rims says:
Both crochet (C) and hooked-bead (HB) rims have inner profiles
that curve inwards near the outside diameter of the rim to
provide a hook that helps retain the tire bead under high
pressure. On modern bikes crochet rims are most common and
hooked bead rims are rare. The distinction is primarily that
hooked-bead rims lack the defined bead seat of straight side and
hooked bead rims. The tire is held in position radially by the
hook without a bead seat playing a role. Without a bead seat,
the primary designation of the diameter in terms of the bead
seat is not applicable, and the governing diameter is the OD.
Sentence #3 pretty clearly has a typo, but I can't figure out the
correction, and I cannot find any images on google that directly compare
hooked-bead and crocheted (also sometimes mis-named "crotched").
I suspect the "HB" in the quoted passage above is really referring to an
obsolete design, and that the quoted writer would even call the 70's
Mavic Mod E "crocheted" rather than "hooked-bead," even though we all
called them hooked-bead.
Can anyone clear this up with an authoritative source?
Mark J.
at Velonews:
https://www.velonews.com/2020/01/technical-faq/technical-faq-specialized-turbo-2bliss-tire-blowoff_503717
What I learned was the term "crochet-type rim".
Looking it up, some sources say this is just another name for hook-bead,
BUT:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_5775#Rims says:
Both crochet (C) and hooked-bead (HB) rims have inner profiles
that curve inwards near the outside diameter of the rim to
provide a hook that helps retain the tire bead under high
pressure. On modern bikes crochet rims are most common and
hooked bead rims are rare. The distinction is primarily that
hooked-bead rims lack the defined bead seat of straight side and
hooked bead rims. The tire is held in position radially by the
hook without a bead seat playing a role. Without a bead seat,
the primary designation of the diameter in terms of the bead
seat is not applicable, and the governing diameter is the OD.
Sentence #3 pretty clearly has a typo, but I can't figure out the
correction, and I cannot find any images on google that directly compare
hooked-bead and crocheted (also sometimes mis-named "crotched").
I suspect the "HB" in the quoted passage above is really referring to an
obsolete design, and that the quoted writer would even call the 70's
Mavic Mod E "crocheted" rather than "hooked-bead," even though we all
called them hooked-bead.
Can anyone clear this up with an authoritative source?
Mark J.
jbeattie
Jan 14, 2020, 12:51:05 PM1/14/20
to
-- Jay Beattie.
-- Jay Beattie.
AMuzi
Jan 14, 2020, 1:35:00 PM1/14/20
to
Rims with a lip and also a bead seat, such as items #571 and
#A125 here:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfromthepast/WEINRIMS.JPG
are the modern standard design.
--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
Mark J.
Jan 14, 2020, 6:58:27 PM1/14/20
to
author intended to say:
>>> The distinction is primarily that
>>> hooked-bead rims lack the defined bead seat of straight side and
Somehow, I think I'm just gonna keep calling them "hooked-bead." It's
worked for me for forty years.
Mark J.
jbeattie
Jan 14, 2020, 7:54:45 PM1/14/20
to
-- Jay Beattie.
AMuzi
Jan 14, 2020, 8:08:19 PM1/14/20
to
On 1/14/2020 6:54 PM, jbeattie wrote:
> On Tuesday, January 14, 2020 at 3:58:27 PM UTC-8, Mark J. wrote:
>> On 1/14/2020 10:34 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>>> On 1/14/2020 11:51 AM, jbeattie wrote:
>>>> On Tuesday, January 14, 2020 at 9:10:48 AM UTC-8, Mark J. wrote:
>>>>> So I learned (?) something new (?) today reading Lennard Zinn's column
>>>>> at Velonews:
>>>>> https://www.velonews.com/2020/01/technical-faq/technical-faq-specialized-turbo-2bliss-tire-blowoff_503717
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> What I learned was the term "crochet-type rim".
>>>>>
>>>>> Looking it up, some sources say this is just another name for hook-bead,
>>>>> BUT:
>>>>>
>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_5775#Rims   says:
> On Tuesday, January 14, 2020 at 3:58:27 PM UTC-8, Mark J. wrote:
>> On 1/14/2020 10:34 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>>> On 1/14/2020 11:51 AM, jbeattie wrote:
>>>> On Tuesday, January 14, 2020 at 9:10:48 AM UTC-8, Mark J. wrote:
>>>>> So I learned (?) something new (?) today reading Lennard Zinn's column
>>>>> at Velonews:
>>>>> https://www.velonews.com/2020/01/technical-faq/technical-faq-specialized-turbo-2bliss-tire-blowoff_503717
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> What I learned was the term "crochet-type rim".
>>>>>
>>>>> Looking it up, some sources say this is just another name for hook-bead,
>>>>> BUT:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Â Â Â Â Both crochet (C) and hooked-bead (HB) rims have inner profiles
>>>>> Â Â Â Â that curve inwards near the outside diameter of the rim to
>>>>> Â Â Â Â provide a hook that helps retain the tire bead under high
>>>>> Â Â Â Â pressure. On modern bikes crochet rims are most common and
>>>>> Â Â Â Â hooked bead rims are rare. The distinction is primarily that
>>>>> Â Â Â Â hooked-bead rims lack the defined bead seat of straight side and
>>>>> Â Â Â Â hooked bead rims. The tire is held in position radially by the
>>>>> Â Â Â Â hook without a bead seat playing a role. Without a bead seat,
>>>>> Â Â Â Â the primary designation of the diameter in terms of the bead
>>>>> Â Â Â Â seat is not applicable, and the governing diameter is the OD.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sentence #3 pretty clearly has a typo, but I can't figure out the
>>>>> correction, and I cannot find any images on google that directly compare
>>>>> hooked-bead and crocheted (also sometimes mis-named "crotched").
>>>>>
>>>>> I suspect the "HB" in the quoted passage above is really referring to an
>>>>> obsolete design, and that the quoted writer would even call the 70's
>>>>> Mavic Mod E "crocheted" rather than "hooked-bead," even though we all
>>>>> called them hooked-bead.
>>>>>
>>>>> Can anyone clear this up with an authoritative source?
>>>>>
>>>>> Mark J.
>>>>
>>>> I'm sure there must be an ISO drawing somewhere.
>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_5775Â My sense is that we've been
>>>>> Sentence #3 pretty clearly has a typo, but I can't figure out the
>>>>> correction, and I cannot find any images on google that directly compare
>>>>> hooked-bead and crocheted (also sometimes mis-named "crotched").
>>>>>
>>>>> I suspect the "HB" in the quoted passage above is really referring to an
>>>>> obsolete design, and that the quoted writer would even call the 70's
>>>>> Mavic Mod E "crocheted" rather than "hooked-bead," even though we all
>>>>> called them hooked-bead.
>>>>>
>>>>> Can anyone clear this up with an authoritative source?
>>>>>
>>>>> Mark J.
>>>>
>>>> I'm sure there must be an ISO drawing somewhere.
>>>> calling ISO "crochet" rims "hook bead" rims but that a true "hook
>>>> bead" looks like an open hook ala the old steel rim design.
>>>> http://www.asia.ru/images/target/photo/51559581/Steel_Rim.jpg
>>>
>>>
>>> Yes, that's correct.
>>> Rims with a lip and also a bead seat, such as items #571 and #A125 here:
>>> http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfromthepast/WEINRIMS.JPG
>>>
>>> are the modern standard design.
>>>
>>
>> Thanks, Jay & Andrew. SO I gather that in the quotation above the
>> author intended to say:
>>
>> >>> The distinction is primarily that
>> >>> hooked-bead rims lack the defined bead seat of straight side and
>> >>> /crochet/ rims.
>>
>> Somehow, I think I'm just gonna keep calling them "hooked-bead." It's
>> worked for me for forty years.
>>
>> Mark J.
>
> Until today, I had never heard the term crochet rim. I always called them hook bead rims as distinguished from straight sided rims -- like the Wolber concaves Andrew linked. I built a set of those 4X 27" (I think). Anyway, they were 310mm spokes, and I still have a bunch of them. Totally useless unless I get a $zillion Phil spoke cutter-threader. I don't even remember what I did with the wheels. They weighed a ton, and I hated them. I think I replaced the rims with Mod 58s -- my standard crochet bead touring rim.
>
> -- Jay Beattie.
>
Yeah Weinmann A124/A129 were real pigs.
>>>> bead" looks like an open hook ala the old steel rim design.
>>>> http://www.asia.ru/images/target/photo/51559581/Steel_Rim.jpg
>>>
>>>
>>> Yes, that's correct.
>>> Rims with a lip and also a bead seat, such as items #571 and #A125 here:
>>> http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfromthepast/WEINRIMS.JPG
>>>
>>> are the modern standard design.
>>>
>>
>> Thanks, Jay & Andrew. SO I gather that in the quotation above the
>> author intended to say:
>>
>> >>> The distinction is primarily that
>> >>> hooked-bead rims lack the defined bead seat of straight side and
>> >>> /crochet/ rims.
>>
>> Somehow, I think I'm just gonna keep calling them "hooked-bead." It's
>> worked for me for forty years.
>>
>> Mark J.
>
> Until today, I had never heard the term crochet rim. I always called them hook bead rims as distinguished from straight sided rims -- like the Wolber concaves Andrew linked. I built a set of those 4X 27" (I think). Anyway, they were 310mm spokes, and I still have a bunch of them. Totally useless unless I get a $zillion Phil spoke cutter-threader. I don't even remember what I did with the wheels. They weighed a ton, and I hated them. I think I replaced the rims with Mod 58s -- my standard crochet bead touring rim.
>
> -- Jay Beattie.
>
But we sold tons of them, used to buy them in case-of-50
700C, 27", 36 and 48 drill. For people who eat rims, those
were nearly indigestible.
Radey Shouman
Jan 14, 2020, 9:02:34 PM1/14/20
to
in French?
AMuzi
Jan 14, 2020, 9:16:31 PM1/14/20
to
On 1/14/2020 8:02 PM, Radey Shouman wrote:
> "Mark J." <MarkU...@comcast.net> writes:
>
>> On 1/14/2020 10:34 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>>> On 1/14/2020 11:51 AM, jbeattie wrote:
>>>> On Tuesday, January 14, 2020 at 9:10:48 AM UTC-8, Mark J. wrote:
>>>>> So I learned (?) something new (?) today reading Lennard Zinn's column
>>>>> at Velonews:
>>>>> https://www.velonews.com/2020/01/technical-faq/technical-faq-specialized-turbo-2bliss-tire-blowoff_503717
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> What I learned was the term "crochet-type rim".
>>>>>
>>>>> Looking it up, some sources say this is just another name for hook-bead,
>>>>> BUT:
>>>>>
> "Mark J." <MarkU...@comcast.net> writes:
>
>> On 1/14/2020 10:34 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>>> On 1/14/2020 11:51 AM, jbeattie wrote:
>>>> On Tuesday, January 14, 2020 at 9:10:48 AM UTC-8, Mark J. wrote:
>>>>> So I learned (?) something new (?) today reading Lennard Zinn's column
>>>>> at Velonews:
>>>>> https://www.velonews.com/2020/01/technical-faq/technical-faq-specialized-turbo-2bliss-tire-blowoff_503717
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> What I learned was the term "crochet-type rim".
>>>>>
>>>>> Looking it up, some sources say this is just another name for hook-bead,
>>>>> BUT:
>>>>>
>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_5775#Rims   says:
>>>>>
>>>>> Â Â Â Â Both crochet (C) and hooked-bead (HB) rims have inner profiles
>>>>>
>>>>> Â Â Â Â that curve inwards near the outside diameter of the rim to
>>>>> Â Â Â Â provide a hook that helps retain the tire bead under high
>>>>> Â Â Â Â pressure. On modern bikes crochet rims are most common and
>>>>> Â Â Â Â hooked bead rims are rare. The distinction is primarily that
>>>>> Â Â Â Â hooked-bead rims lack the defined bead seat of straight side and
>>>>> Â Â Â Â hooked bead rims. The tire is held in position radially by the
>>>>> Â Â Â Â hook without a bead seat playing a role. Without a bead seat,
>>>>> Â Â Â Â the primary designation of the diameter in terms of the bead
>>>>> Â Â Â Â seat is not applicable, and the governing diameter is the OD.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sentence #3 pretty clearly has a typo, but I can't figure out the
>>>>> correction, and I cannot find any images on google that directly compare
>>>>> hooked-bead and crocheted (also sometimes mis-named "crotched").
>>>>>
>>>>> I suspect the "HB" in the quoted passage above is really referring to an
>>>>> obsolete design, and that the quoted writer would even call the 70's
>>>>> Mavic Mod E "crocheted" rather than "hooked-bead," even though we all
>>>>> called them hooked-bead.
>>>>>
>>>>> Can anyone clear this up with an authoritative source?
>>>>>
>>>>> Mark J.
>>>>
>>>> I'm sure there must be an ISO drawing
>>>> somewhere. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_5775Â My sense is that
>>>>> Sentence #3 pretty clearly has a typo, but I can't figure out the
>>>>> correction, and I cannot find any images on google that directly compare
>>>>> hooked-bead and crocheted (also sometimes mis-named "crotched").
>>>>>
>>>>> I suspect the "HB" in the quoted passage above is really referring to an
>>>>> obsolete design, and that the quoted writer would even call the 70's
>>>>> Mavic Mod E "crocheted" rather than "hooked-bead," even though we all
>>>>> called them hooked-bead.
>>>>>
>>>>> Can anyone clear this up with an authoritative source?
>>>>>
>>>>> Mark J.
>>>>
>>>> I'm sure there must be an ISO drawing
>>>> we've been calling ISO "crochet" rims "hook bead" rims but that a
>>>> true "hook bead" looks like an open hook ala the old steel rim
>>>> design. http://www.asia.ru/images/target/photo/51559581/Steel_Rim.jpg
>>>
>>>
>>> Yes, that's correct.
>>> Rims with a lip and also a bead seat, such as items #571 and #A125 here:
>>> http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfromthepast/WEINRIMS.JPG
>>>
>>> are the modern standard design.
>>>
>>
>> Thanks, Jay & Andrew. SO I gather that in the quotation above the
>> author intended to say:
>>
>>>>> The distinction is primarily that
>>>>> hooked-bead rims lack the defined bead seat of straight side and
>>>>> /crochet/ rims.
>>
>> Somehow, I think I'm just gonna keep calling them "hooked-bead." It's
>> worked for me for forty years.
>
> Not that it makes a difference, but doesn't "crochet" just mean "hook"
> in French?
>
Mais oui!
>>>> true "hook bead" looks like an open hook ala the old steel rim
>>>> design. http://www.asia.ru/images/target/photo/51559581/Steel_Rim.jpg
>>>
>>>
>>> Yes, that's correct.
>>> Rims with a lip and also a bead seat, such as items #571 and #A125 here:
>>> http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfromthepast/WEINRIMS.JPG
>>>
>>> are the modern standard design.
>>>
>>
>> Thanks, Jay & Andrew. SO I gather that in the quotation above the
>> author intended to say:
>>
>>>>> The distinction is primarily that
>>>>> hooked-bead rims lack the defined bead seat of straight side and
>>>>> /crochet/ rims.
>>
>> Somehow, I think I'm just gonna keep calling them "hooked-bead." It's
>> worked for me for forty years.
>
> Not that it makes a difference, but doesn't "crochet" just mean "hook"
> in French?
>
From 'crochet' rims to christening -584 tires as '27.5' to
calling a semi an 'assault weapon' to every statement ever
released by the Federal Reserve, an avoidance of clear
language (or actual obfuscation) is itself a telling point
about the message. And the messenger.
Frank Krygowski
Jan 14, 2020, 10:17:39 PM1/14/20
to
Clincher? (What does it clinch?)
Gears? (Aren't they really sprockets?)
Mountain bike? (Hardly ever used on actual mountains.)
Road bike? (When almost all bikes are almost always ridden on roads?)
--
- Frank Krygowski
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