brakes for 28mm tires?

[Frank Krygowski]

My friend is still shopping for a bike. One sticking point: Seems like
most low- to mid-range road bikes come with dual pivot brakes (usually
Tektro, some Shimano) that won't open wide enough to clear an inflated
28mm tire. In local shops, I'm not seeing road bikes with V-brakes
(nor, of course, cantilevers). Not interested in discs.

Since she'll be doing a lot of riding on fairly bumpy roads or on
crushed limestone rail-trails, I think 28s are what she needs.

It seems a shame. From what I can tell, just a minor change to the
brake quick-release cam would allow them to open quite a bit farther.
And if there were a way to put two quick release devices in series, it
seems that could give more open clearance. But I don't see that's
possible with these dual-pivot sidepulls.

Any tips or ideas?


--
- Frank Krygowski

[AMuzi]

The modern standard 450 caliper can be positioned to just
clear a 28mm tire with the shoes all the way down. A
designer certainly could do a frame and fork geometry for
that- see Waterford with 27mm tire here:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/WIDE27.JPG

But that would require some sort of reasonable market for
the bike, which probably doesn't exist in any significant
numbers.

Another stumbling point is the prevalence of standardized
road bike forks and no product manager wants to pee away a
pile of money on a special fork for one model with unproven
volume. Heck I'm even sympathetic to the idea yet I would
bet against such a project breaking even.

There are sport bikes with the next size 500 caliper such as
Gunnar Sport and Soma Smoothie ES, inter alia. Maybe look
more in that direction or an actual touring bike such as
Bianchi Volpe or its new relative Bianchi Lupo.


--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[Gary Young]

Couldn't you add an in-line cable adjuster? Shimano even makes a model that has a lever-type quick release built in (SM-CB90), though it seems overpriced to me. If you used a cheaper in-line barrel adjuster, a few turns might give you the clearance you need. I believe there are some that are rated for use with brakes and not just shifters.

[Joerg]

I just took the calipers out to the garage. With the release up my
Shimano 600 brake opens to exactly 28mm, with the pad clearance adjusted
to normal lever reach. My road bike rims are currently 22mm wide on the
outside. That would mean you get 6mm more than the rim when the release
is open.

This was such a popular set in the 80's that it shouldn't be a problem
to obtain one. She should only need that for the front. Brake
performance with Koolstop Cross pads is nice (for rim brakes).

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

[Frank Krygowski]

On 5/10/2016 7:44 PM, Gary Young wrote:
> Couldn't you add an in-line cable adjuster? Shimano even makes a model that has a lever-type quick release built in (SM-CB90), though it seems overpriced to me. If you used a cheaper in-line barrel adjuster, a few turns might give you the clearance you need. I believe there are some that are rated for use with brakes and not just shifters.

That looks like one potential solution I had in mind, but I couldn't
find it. Thanks!

Any feedback on these?


--
- Frank Krygowski

[James]

Become interested in discs? ;-)

Tyre width is irrelevant as far as the brake caliper is concerned.

Wheel removal doesn't require a quick release cam to be operated.

Upon wheel insertion, there is no quick release to forget to reset prior
to riding off and finding the brakes don't work.

Brakes will work well in the wet, and will not produce black Al oxide
slurry.

--
JS

[James]

On 11/05/16 08:49, Frank Krygowski wrote:

FWIW, I use an advertised 25mm Michelin tyre on the rear wheel of my
road bike. It measures 27mm. The brake QR for Campag Ergo levers is on
the lever, not the brake caliper. With the brake QR "open", I can
easily fit the tyre mentioned above while the tyre is fully inflated.

--
JS

[John B.]

It is, perhaps, a bit of a kludge but if you use one of those "in
line" cable adjuster" gizmos you can screw the adjuster out as far as
possible then adjust the brakes at the brake. then if you open the
brakes "quick release you can open the brake spacing even more using
the inline adjuster.

I use them with V-brakes so that the V-brakes are usable with STI
levers.
--
cheers,

John B.

[AMuzi]

Those were a new innovative solution twenty years ago.
http://yellowjersey.org/INLINE.JPG

They are now standard on many road bikes, even at the low
end of prices. Aftermarket set cheap at any LBS.

[Frank Krygowski]

I like the quick release function in the ones Gary linked. For the
problem I'm addressing, that's much more important than just adjustability.

--
- Frank Krygowski

[(PeteCresswell)]

Per Frank Krygowski:

>Since she'll be doing a lot of riding on fairly bumpy roads or on
>crushed limestone rail-trails, I think 28s are what she needs.

>Any tips or ideas?

Get a bike with disc brakes - and one that will take larger tires than
28's. Maybe a 'cross bike.

My bike is built on a Salsa "Fargo" frame. Roadies piss all over me on
the hard and smooth, but I'm running 38mm tires and am older than dirt.
Put 28's and a decent rider on it and I would bet it is close enough to
a road bike to keep up with a pack - yet offer much more versatility.

I've got a set of 28's and they do give 1-1.5 mph more cruising speed
than larger tires... but when I balance that against the fact that they
beat me up more on the bumps I wind up favoring larger/softer tires.
--
Pete Cresswell

[Steve Patriquen]

Cane Creek has levers with QR releases on the levers (as do some Campy levers)

http://www.canecreek.com/resources/products/brakes-levers/manuals/SCR_Brake_Lever_Instructions.pdf

[Frank Krygowski]

On 5/11/2016 10:57 AM, Steve Patriquen wrote:
> Cane Creek has levers with QR releases on the levers (as do some Campy levers)
>
> http://www.canecreek.com/resources/products/brakes-levers/manuals/SCR_Brake_Lever_Instructions.pdf

I prefer brake QR at the levers. But given the market, she'll probably
end up with STI shifters. But I'll add that to the list of tips I'm
accumulating for her. Thanks.


--
- Frank Krygowski

[AMuzi]

In other words, a Campagnolo Ergo system. Good choice.

[jbeattie]

Sometimes just shifting to a thinner brake pad will do the trick -- along with all the other suggestions (in-line adjusters, etc.) Another benefit of discs is that you can use big tires and fenders and not just one or the other.

-- Jay Beattie.

[Lou Holtman]

You could use the thingies Rohloff uses to make the Rohloff hubbed wheel
removable

https://www.bike-components.de/de/Rohloff/Bayonettverschluss-fuer-Bowdenzuege-p18571/

It will look ugle but aesthetics isn't your strongest point anyway :-)
--

Lou

[Frank Krygowski]

I give up. How does that work?

>
> It will look ugle but aesthetics isn't your strongest point anyway :-)

Oh, I disagree! I think my aesthetic taste is excellent! (I know it's
a common attitude, but in my case, it's correct!)


--
- Frank Krygowski

[Lou Holtman]

You cut the cable put one half at one end and the other half on the other
end of the cable. You click them together and twist to open.

--
Lou

[Lou Holtman]

This is the other end


https://www.bike-components.de/de/Rohloff/Bayonettverschluss-fuer-Nabenzuege-p18570/


--
Lou

[Joerg]

Not sure if I'd trust those for the full force exerted when hitting the
brakes hard. These are meant for shifter cables.

Regular caliper brakes with release levers usually open wide enough for
28mm tires unless set to a super-tight rim clearance or unless the rim
is a bit narrow.

[Lou Holtman]

I think you are right.

> Regular caliper brakes with release levers usually open wide enough for
> 28mm tires unless set to a super-tight rim clearance or unless the rim
> is a bit narrow.

I run 28 mm without problems also. Don't see the problem either.


>



--
Lou

[James]

I don't see how, once the brake is adjusted to the same clearance from
the rim for normal brake performance.

--
JS

[jbeattie]

You pop the QR and twirl the barrel adjuster in on a Shimano brake. It's the equivalent of the in-line adjuster fix. More process, but you can get the tire out. If your brake blocks are too fat, though, the back of the block hits the forks or stays, and there still isn't enough room to get the tire out.

-- Jay Beattie.

[jbeattie]

Here is the S&S option -- http://www.sandsmachine.com/ac_cable.htm I agree that it should be simpler than splitting a cable.

-- Jay Beattie.

[Frank Krygowski]

Ah. That makes more sense now.


--
- Frank Krygowski

[Ned Mantei]

Besides all the other things suggested, after fixing a flat maybe just
pump up the tire only after the wheel is back in the frame?

Ned

[Frank Krygowski]

That works for flats, but it doesn't work nearly as well for taking the
front wheel off to transport the bike in a car.

But as I said before, it was one bike shop owner who claimed the brakes
on the bike he was trying to sell would not open far enough to clear a
28mm tire. Perhaps he was mistaken. When we're finally in a bike shop
together, I suppose my friend and I can check by just trading wheels
between bikes.

--
- Frank Krygowski

[Ned Mantei]

On 12-05-16 15:23, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 5/12/2016 7:01 AM, Ned Mantei wrote:
>> On 11-05-16 00:49, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>> My friend is still shopping for a bike. One sticking point: Seems like
>>> most low- to mid-range road bikes come with dual pivot brakes (usually
>>> Tektro, some Shimano) that won't open wide enough to clear an inflated
>>> 28mm tire. In local shops, I'm not seeing road bikes with V-brakes
>>> (nor, of course, cantilevers). Not interested in discs.
>>>
>>> Since she'll be doing a lot of riding on fairly bumpy roads or on
>>> crushed limestone rail-trails, I think 28s are what she needs.
>>>
>>> It seems a shame. From what I can tell, just a minor change to the
>>> brake quick-release cam would allow them to open quite a bit farther.
>>> And if there were a way to put two quick release devices in series, it
>>> seems that could give more open clearance. But I don't see that's
>>> possible with these dual-pivot sidepulls.
>>>
>>> Any tips or ideas?
>>>
>>>
>> Besides all the other things suggested, after fixing a flat maybe just
>> pump up the tire only after the wheel is back in the frame?
>
> That works for flats, but it doesn't work nearly as well for taking the
> front wheel off to transport the bike in a car.

Now I get it--I hadn't thought of that aspect. Here in Switzerland I
always take my bike with me on the train for tours not starting at home.

Ned
(not a car owner, but do have one-year rail passes for me and for my bike)