Chicago woman with concealed-carry license foils attempted carjacking by shooting man in head

[Catrike Rider]

A 23-year-old woman with a concealed-carry permit defended herself
against four armed men who attempted to carjack her last week on the
South Side of Chicago.

The woman, who remains unidentified, was sitting in her car in the
Calumet Heights neighborhood just after 2 a.m. on Wednesday near 89th
Street and Kenwood Avenue when four men spilled out of a black sedan,
according to a local CBS affiliate.

When one of the men attempted to open her car door while holding a
gun, the woman shot the would-be carjacker in the head before running
away from the car.

One of the other men reportedly shot her in the left arm, and she was
later taken to Advocate Trinity Hospital in fair condition.

The man who she shot in the head was reportedly taken to University of
Chicago Medical Center in critical condition, though the woman's other
three attackers escaped from the scene.

The Chicago Police Department did not immediately respond to Fox News
Digital's request for comment.

Crime has spiked in the Windy City in the last year, with homicides
reaching an all-time high in a quarter-century in 2021.

Robbery reports have surged 15% in 2022, according to Chicago police
records. Holdups have gone up 11% since 2020 and 2019, though they
decreased 10% compared to 2018.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/chicago-woman-concealed-carry-license-foils-attempted-carjacking-shooting-man-head?dicbo=v2-2b87b696f0f7165cc98997d0b967326d

[John B.]

Perhaps not sitting in cars at 2 AM is the answer :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

[AMuzi]

Maybe. Maybe not. We don't know her circumstance.

Plenty of people are just leaving or going to work at 2am.
Also, delivery drivers are quite busy 1~3am.

https://www.bringg.com/blog/delivery/late-night-deliveries-booming/

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[John B.]

Well :-) O.K. But if you are planning on sitting in cars at 2 AM then
be sure you've got your gun :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Catrike Rider]

On Tue, 29 Nov 2022 08:08:58 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>
wrote:

Some people have to go on with their lives even in high crime areas
like the south side of Chicago.

[Catrike Rider]

On Mon, 28 Nov 2022 19:54:34 -0600, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

The USA has become a 24/7 kind of place.

[Catrike Rider]

On Tue, 29 Nov 2022 09:02:53 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>

+1

[AMuzi]

That works. Or just use the criminal's weapon to beat him in
the head:
https://cwbchicago.com/2022/11/carjacking-victim-disarms-offender-beats-him-with-his-own-gun-prosecutors-say.html

A technique known as 'pain compliance'.

[Tom Kunich]

The scum leftist here would deny her and anyone else the right to self protection. Frank is not going to be able to hold himself back from talking about this in front of what he considers to be his "friends" and will discover that suddenly he has no friends.

[Lou Holtman]

I see only losers after this incident. The woman was lucky.

Lou

[Tom Kunich]

In matters of self defense, the victim is always lucky because they are forced to react secondarily to the acts of an attacker. She was lucky to get the first shot off causing sufficient confusion to get away.

[Lou Holtman]

For my understanders, they wanted tosteal her car, no?

Lou

[Tom Kunich]

Carjacking is synonymous with stealing her car yes. Seems like journalists in America now have to invent new terms for the most common of everyday events.

[AMuzi]

Yes, that's right.
https://data.cityofchicago.org/Public-Safety/Chicago-carjackings-by-year/fbqm-xvt4

Note 'attempted carjacking' are not included in those numbers.

[Lou Holtman]

So people in the US are willing to kill someone to steal a car or willing to kill someone to prevent it? Geezzz.

Lou

[Catrike Rider]

Here in Florida it is not legal to shoot someone who is trying to
steal your car unless you are in the car at the time, or otherwise
believe yourself or another person is in danger from the theif(s).
IOW, it's not the theft, but the potential attack on the person, so I
suspect it would also be legal to shoot someone who is trying to steal
your bicycle while you're on it..

[Lou Holtman]

Legal and willing are two different things.

Lou

[Catrike Rider]

On Thu, 1 Dec 2022 04:53:27 -0800 (PST), Lou Holtman

Perhaps so, but I'd be perfectly willing to respond with lethal force
if I percieved lethal force directed at me or another person. Someone
trying to force open my vehicle door qualifies, as well as someone
trying to pull me off my bike. Had I had a gun when I was attacked, I
would simply have presented it when I first felt endangered, which,
I'm pretty sure would have backed him off. Had he not, there would
have been blood.

[AMuzi]

We're suffering dissolution of civil order in many ways and
in many areas.

https://nypost.com/2022/01/23/nypd-reported-more-subway-assaults-in-2021-than-any-year/

Not only over autos but more visiously over telephones and
small change.

[AMuzi]

Right. Lethal force is reasonable defense in a robbery but
not a theft.

[AMuzi]

Have you ever stared at the wrong end of a loaded pistol?
It's a significantly traumatizing experience and I sincerely
hope you never do.

[Lou Holtman]

No I haven't and I'm sure it is traumatizing. If someone would point a pistol at me and asked me to hand over my bike or my car I think I would do that and not trying to shoot him first. YMMV.

Lou

[Tom Kunich]

Most of the violence in the USA is due to the tribalization of the population. This was normally avoided with the normal immigration procedures in place. But once Obama got in, everything changed and Mexico emptied their prisons out by bussing their worst offenders out to the borders and telling them to go north or face guns. With Biden's open borders, even worse offender have become part of the American landscape.

If you don't think that the one world government crowd do not mean this for Holland as well just wait and see. Middle easterners flowing across the European borders will soon enough reach the levels of open warfare in Holland and you will be busy asking each other how this could possibly occur in friendly peaceful Holland. And you will be seeking some method to legally arm yourself.

[Catrike Rider]

On Thu, 1 Dec 2022 07:40:50 -0800 (PST), Lou Holtman

Depends on the situation. Having the gun handy is the reason I moved
my gun from behind me in the trunkbag to in front of me between my
knees. A gun has negative value if it's not loaded and where you can
get your hands on it quickly.

[Frank Krygowski]

Lou does not live in a country dominated by pro-gun propaganda and NRA
political control.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/08/30/dutch-soldier-indianapolis-gun-violence/

"The United States’ “intentional homicide” rate was seven times that of
the Netherlands in 2020, the last year for which the United Nations has
statistics on both countries. The death rate from gun violence was
nearly 18 times higher in the United States than in the Netherlands in
2019, according to the University of Washington School of Medicine’s
Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation."

More generally:
https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/Netherlands/United-States/Crime

--
- Frank Krygowski

[AMuzi]

On 12/1/2022 11:07 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 12/1/2022 9:16 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 12/1/2022 6:53 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Legal and willing are two different things.
>>>
>>> Lou
>>>
>>
>> Have you ever stared at the wrong end of a loaded pistol?
>> It's a significantly traumatizing experience and I
>> sincerely hope you never do.
>
> Lou does not live in a country dominated by pro-gun
> propaganda and NRA political control.
>
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/08/30/dutch-soldier-indianapolis-gun-violence/
>
>

> "The United States’ “intentional homicide†rate was

> seven times that of the Netherlands in 2020, the last year
> for which the United Nations has statistics on both
> countries. The death rate from gun violence was nearly 18
> times higher in the United States than in the Netherlands in
> 2019, according to the University of Washington School of

> Medicine’s Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation."
>
> More generally:
> https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/Netherlands/United-States/Crime
>
>

And yet we also excel at mayhem with knives/machetes, arson,
beatings, motor vehicles, poison (fentanyl etc).

Firearms are not the whole of it.

[Tom Kunich]

And don't forget Paul Pelosi's mayhem by Hammer. Any country that believes that they can maintain peace without control of their borders is headed for deep doo-doo.

[Frank Krygowski]

That may be true. But they firearms intended for killing other people
are the most blatant part of it.

--
- Frank Krygowski

[Catrike Rider]

On Thu, 1 Dec 2022 16:58:49 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>On 12/1/2022 2:10 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 12/1/2022 11:07 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>> On 12/1/2022 9:16 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>> On 12/1/2022 6:53 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Legal and willing are two different things.
>>>>>
>>>>> Lou
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Have you ever stared at the wrong end of a loaded pistol?
>>>> It's a significantly traumatizing experience and I
>>>> sincerely hope you never do.
>>>
>>> Lou does not live in a country dominated by pro-gun
>>> propaganda and NRA political control.
>>>
>>> https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/08/30/dutch-soldier-indianapolis-gun-violence/
>>>
>>>

>>> "The United States’ “intentional homicide�€? rate was

>>> seven times that of the Netherlands in 2020, the last year
>>> for which the United Nations has statistics on both
>>> countries. The death rate from gun violence was nearly 18
>>> times higher in the United States than in the Netherlands in
>>> 2019, according to the University of Washington School of

>>> Medicine’s Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation."

>>>
>>> More generally:
>>> https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/Netherlands/United-States/Crime
>>>
>>>
>>
>> And yet we also excel at mayhem with knives/machetes, arson, beatings,
>> motor vehicles, poison (fentanyl etc).
>>
>> Firearms are not the whole of it.
>
>That may be true. But they firearms intended for killing other people
>are the most blatant part of it.

Sometimes firearms keep someone from killing other people, at least if
they're held by those of us who are not afraid of guns.

[Tom Kunich]

Frank much prefers a hammer.

[John B.]

I was once. Three guys forced their way into the house. One grabbed my
wife, one the kid and the third held a S&W .38 loaded with jacketed
bullets. I know because I could see them in the cylinder.

I can assure you that it concentrates his mind wonderfully .

--
Cheers,

John B.

[Catrike Rider]

On Fri, 02 Dec 2022 05:41:52 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>
wrote:

Hollowpoints are more effective. That's what I use. I only use FMJs
for target practice.

[John B.]

On Thu, 01 Dec 2022 13:10:29 -0600, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 12/1/2022 11:07 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On 12/1/2022 9:16 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>>> On 12/1/2022 6:53 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Legal and willing are two different things.
>>>>
>>>> Lou
>>>>
>>>
>>> Have you ever stared at the wrong end of a loaded pistol?
>>> It's a significantly traumatizing experience and I
>>> sincerely hope you never do.
>>
>> Lou does not live in a country dominated by pro-gun
>> propaganda and NRA political control.
>>
>> https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/08/30/dutch-soldier-indianapolis-gun-violence/
>>
>>

>> "The United States’ “intentional homicide�€? rate was

>> seven times that of the Netherlands in 2020, the last year
>> for which the United Nations has statistics on both
>> countries. The death rate from gun violence was nearly 18
>> times higher in the United States than in the Netherlands in
>> 2019, according to the University of Washington School of

>> Medicine’s Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation."

>>
>> More generally:
>> https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/Netherlands/United-States/Crime
>>
>>
>
>And yet we also excel at mayhem with knives/machetes, arson,
>beatings, motor vehicles, poison (fentanyl etc).
>
>Firearms are not the whole of it.

In face compared with many other "civilized" countries the U.S. is a
violate country
https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/violent-crime-rates-by-country
U.S. Canada Germany
Homicide 4.96 1.76 0.95
Assault 246.84 150,8 164.5
Robbery 86.24 61,9 44.2

--
Cheers,

John B.

[John B.]

Well yes hollow points are usually more effective. But when a bloke is
pointing a gun at you from about 3 feet with the hammer back the
conversation is rather limited. He says "give me your money" and you
hand it over :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Catrike Rider]

On Fri, 02 Dec 2022 07:19:58 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>

Agreed. I just wondered why you made a point of the "jacketed
bullets?"

[AMuzi]

+1
And just not pooping your pants is a special little victory.

[John B.]

On Thu, 01 Dec 2022 19:32:29 -0500, Catrike Rider

Well, because that was what I could see. That along with the reference
to the S&W revolver was an indication just how close the bloke was.

I was shot at, or at least I think I was shot at, in Vietnam, and if
that is any indication I wasn't scared when I saw someone pointing a
gun at me from, maybe, 100 yards, but when it is from 3 feet it does
seem to be a bit more significant :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

[AMuzi]

+1

I do not recommend it.

[Frank Krygowski]

On 12/1/2022 9:05 PM, John B. wrote:
>
>
> I was shot at, or at least I think I was shot at, in Vietnam, and if
> that is any indication I wasn't scared when I saw someone pointing a
> gun at me from, maybe, 100 yards, but when it is from 3 feet it does
> seem to be a bit more significant :-)

And the solution is: More guns!

At least, in the mind of America's gun fetishists.

--
- Frank Krygowski

[Catrike Rider]

No the solution is to put the criminals in prison and keep them there
a good long time.

Carrying a gun while committing a felony, any felony, should be an
additional charge with a heavy penalty.

I don't know if it can be done by the Feds, but if it can, the
Republicans in the house should propose it. I believe most
conservatives would support that, and I'd like to see how many
Democrats would.

[Catrike Rider]

On Fri, 02 Dec 2022 09:05:56 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>

I understand. There are times when it makes sense to comply.

[John B.]

Well, Frank does get carried away :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

[John B.]

Well, Frank does get carried away :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

[AMuzi]

Within arm's reach anything can happen. And often does:

https://nypost.com/2022/11/27/video-twice-stabbed-nyc-straphanger-struggles-with-vicious-robber-on-subway-platform/

Not all firearms owners are vicious. Not all attackers use
firearms.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/251919/number-of-assaults-in-the-us-by-weapon/

We are an especially violent nation. Criminologists have
been documenting for 30 years that the overwhelming bulk of
crimes, of all types, are by a very small number of habitual
criminals. Look to the operator not the object.

[Tom Kunich]

The good thing about hollowpoints is that they tend to stick in the target while metal jackets tend to pass through and can hit things on the other side.

[Tom Kunich]

One solution would be to lock Frank up with these people for the same amount of time. Given his choice he would deny us our Constitutional rights and that is enough of a crime to put him away permanently

[Catrike Rider]

+1

[Catrike Rider]

That's true. Less chance of collateral damage.

[Frank Krygowski]

On 12/2/2022 9:25 AM, AMuzi wrote:
> On 12/1/2022 9:59 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On 12/1/2022 9:05 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> I was shot at, or at least I think I was shot at, in
>>> Vietnam, and if
>>> that is any indication I wasn't scared when I saw someone
>>> pointing a
>>> gun at me from, maybe, 100 yards, but when it is from 3
>>> feet it does
>>> seem to be a bit more significant :-)
>>
>> And the solution is: More guns!
>>
>> At least, in the mind of America's gun fetishists.
>>
>
> Within arm's reach anything can happen. And often does:
>
> https://nypost.com/2022/11/27/video-twice-stabbed-nyc-straphanger-struggles-with-vicious-robber-on-subway-platform/
>
> Not all firearms owners are vicious. Not all attackers use firearms.
>
> https://www.statista.com/statistics/251919/number-of-assaults-in-the-us-by-weapon/

Yes, of course. Because "assault" includes incidents like grabbing
someone's arm without permission, or one guy pushing another guy's
chest, or a woman slapping another woman, etc. The vast majority of
those have little or no lasting consequence.

Let's look at weapon choice for assault with lasting consequances. Here
it is for homicides:
https://www.statista.com/statistics/195325/murder-victims-in-the-us-by-weapon-used/

But again, the gun fetishist's solution is "More guns!"

> We are an especially violent nation.  Criminologists have been
> documenting for 30 years that the overwhelming bulk of crimes, of all
> types, are by a very small number of habitual criminals.  Look to the
> operator not the object.

We are a nation more violent than other similarly prosperous countries.
I have repeatedly asked for proposed solutions. The simplistic answer is
usually "Lock people up."

But the U.S. already locks up a grossly excessive portion of its
population, far more per capita than Canada, Britain, Ireland, France,
Netherlands, Denmark... IOW, that is clearly not working.

And of course, the U.S. already has far more guns per capita in the
hands of its UN-regulated "militia" - AKA gun fetishists - than
comparable countries. That too is clearly not working.

It seems obvious to me that what are naively proposed as solutions are
actually exacerbating factors.

One definition of insanity "doing the same thing over and over and
expecting different results."


--
- Frank Krygowski

[Catrike Rider]

There you go....

>But the U.S. already locks up a grossly excessive portion of its
>population, far more per capita than Canada, Britain, Ireland, France,
>Netherlands, Denmark... IOW, that is clearly not working.

Of course, locking them up does work. People are buying guns for
protection against the criminals who are not locked up.

>And of course, the U.S. already has far more guns per capita in the
>hands of its UN-regulated "militia" - AKA gun fetishists - than
>comparable countries. That too is clearly not working.

The best protection that I have access to against theft, assault, etc
is carrying a gun, but yes, it's clearly not sufficient. It is,
however, fairly cheap, easy to do, and fun to practce. If I'd had the
gun when I was attacked while biking, the attack would not have
happened.

>It seems obvious to me that what are naively proposed as solutions are
>actually exacerbating factors.
>
>One definition of insanity "doing the same thing over and over and
>expecting different results."

Cashless bail is not working. Woke prosecuters is not working. pen
borders is not working.

[pH]

On 2022-12-01, John B <sloc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 01 Dec 2022 13:10:29 -0600, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>
>>On 12/1/2022 11:07 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>> On 12/1/2022 9:16 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>> On 12/1/2022 6:53 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Legal and willing are two different things.
>>>>>
>>>>> Lou
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Have you ever stared at the wrong end of a loaded pistol?
>>>> It's a significantly traumatizing experience and I
>>>> sincerely hope you never do.
>>>
>>> Lou does not live in a country dominated by pro-gun
>>> propaganda and NRA political control.
>>>
>>> https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/08/30/dutch-soldier-indianapolis-gun-violence/
>>>
>>>

>>> "The United States’ “intentional homicide� rate was

>>> seven times that of the Netherlands in 2020, the last year
>>> for which the United Nations has statistics on both
>>> countries. The death rate from gun violence was nearly 18
>>> times higher in the United States than in the Netherlands in
>>> 2019, according to the University of Washington School of

>>> Medicine’s Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation."

>>>
>>> More generally:
>>> https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/Netherlands/United-States/Crime
>>>
>>>
>>
>>And yet we also excel at mayhem with knives/machetes, arson,
>>beatings, motor vehicles, poison (fentanyl etc).
>>
>>Firearms are not the whole of it.
>
> In face compared with many other "civilized" countries the U.S. is a
> violate country
> https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/violent-crime-rates-by-country
> U.S. Canada Germany
> Homicide 4.96 1.76 0.95
> Assault 246.84 150,8 164.5
> Robbery 86.24 61,9 44.2
>

I think we also lead the world in incarcerated citizens per capita, being
the land of the free, home of the brave and all.

EXCEPT when that crime that would cause one to be jailed involves injuring,
killing, maiming, etectera, a cyclist (to stay on topic).

In *that* case, the District Attorney resists his overpowering urge to give
the motorist a medal and grudingly imposes a week or two of probation if
really forced to by the circumstances.

Bitter? Cynical? Not me. Just what I've obeserved over the decades.

It seems to be taken much more seriously in countries like Holand and
Germany--something to do with the American psyche equating bicycles with
toys and/or or infrastructure not really being designed to accomodate
everyobdy as over there.

My opinion, of course.

pH in Aptos

[Tom Kunich]

Still more displays of Krygowski's psychosis. He want you to believe that the numbers are incorrect because people report someone grabbing them by the arm. Or someone pushing someone else. The creeping dementia has him in its hands. Pretty quick he will act more and more like Biden.

[Frank Krygowski]

On 12/2/2022 12:24 PM, Catrike Rider wrote:
> If I'd had the
> gun when I was attacked while biking, the attack would not have
> happened.

If you'd have had pepper spray when you were attacked while biking the

attack would not have happened.

As it was, you said the attack did nothing but scare you, just as riding
on a road with <gasp!> cars scares you. You scare easily.

And because you scare so easily, you have equipped yourself to kill
another human being.

Nobody else here needs a gun to ride. You're our most outstanding coward.

--
- Frank Krygowski

[Tom Kunich]

As long as criminals are being the heroes and honest citizens the enemy of civilization none of this is going to change and criminals will continue to multiply and grow more and more brazen with their crimes.

[Catrike Rider]

If some stranger grabs at my arm, pushes at my chest, or slaps me,
they are guilty of assault and I am justified in drawing my gun and
backing them off. In fact, That's also true if some BLM freak gets in
my face and demands that I say something. In many cases, carrying a
gun means I don't have to back down.

[Catrike Rider]

On Fri, 2 Dec 2022 12:49:54 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>On 12/2/2022 12:24 PM, Catrike Rider wrote:
>> If I'd had the
>> gun when I was attacked while biking, the attack would not have
>> happened.
>
>If you'd have had pepper spray when you were attacked while biking the
>attack would not have happened.

I doubt that. I'd have drawn and displayed the gun when I first saw
him and I'm pretty sure he'd have backed pretty far off the trail. A
gun is far more imposing than a little tube of pepper spray. I think
I'll stick to the gun.

>As it was, you said the attack did nothing but scare you, just as riding
>on a road with <gasp!> cars scares you. You scare easily.

Actually, I had some nasty bruises and scrape marks on my neck from
when he grabbed my shirt. Like I said, had I been on a two wheeler
he'd have pulled me onto the ground.

>And because you scare so easily, you have equipped yourself to kill
>another human being.

I take defensive measures just like you do when you fear vehicles
might come to close to you on far right of the road. My gun causes
less hinderance to innocent people than your taking the lane. The fact
that it upsets you is of no consequence to anyone but yourself.

Well, actually, I do enjoy your knee jerk, leftist, anti-gun nonsense.

>Nobody else here needs a gun to ride.

As far as you know. Of course nobody else here sits four inches off
the ground and can't simply jump of the bike, throw it down, and run
away.

>You're our most outstanding coward.

You seem to think I care about your opinions of me, other than how it
makes me grin. You're an insignificant nobody, Frank, and you hate it
that you can't boss people around like you used to do in the
classroom.

[Lou Holtman]

On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 6:44:52 PM UTC+1, pH wrote:
decades.
>
> It seems to be taken much more seriously in countries like Holand and
> Germany--something to do with the American psyche equating bicycles with
> toys and/or or infrastructure not really being designed to accomodate
> everyobdy as over there.

My brother was hit by a car riding his bike a couple of weeks ago; damaged bike, wrecked dog trailer and a sore shoulder (checked in hospital). Although my brother had to give way to the car, the car insurance had to pay all the damage to my brothers bike and trailer, no questions asked. Don't know about the medical costs, but everyone here has health assurance. The car did not exceed the speed limit but given the bad visibility she should have driven slower. That is how it is here in The Netherlands. You better drive careful around town.

Lou

[AMuzi]

On 12/2/2022 11:44 AM, pH wrote:
> On 2022-12-01, John B <sloc...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Thu, 01 Dec 2022 13:10:29 -0600, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>
>>> On 12/1/2022 11:07 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>> On 12/1/2022 9:16 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>> On 12/1/2022 6:53 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Legal and willing are two different things.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Lou
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Have you ever stared at the wrong end of a loaded pistol?
>>>>> It's a significantly traumatizing experience and I
>>>>> sincerely hope you never do.
>>>>
>>>> Lou does not live in a country dominated by pro-gun
>>>> propaganda and NRA political control.
>>>>
>>>> https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/08/30/dutch-soldier-indianapolis-gun-violence/
>>>>
>>>>

>>>> "The United States’ “intentional homicideâ€? rate was

>>>> seven times that of the Netherlands in 2020, the last year
>>>> for which the United Nations has statistics on both
>>>> countries. The death rate from gun violence was nearly 18
>>>> times higher in the United States than in the Netherlands in
>>>> 2019, according to the University of Washington School of

>>>> Medicine’s Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation."

+1

Prosecution is extremely selective. Not only regarding
cyclist deaths[1]. I have previously linked here the running
list[2] at CWB Chicago of this year's murderers out on a
signature from the last few murders.

Oh, by the way 'felon in possession' and 'stolen/defaced
firearm in possession' are almost never charged, despite (or
because) the statute requires a mandatory minimum on conviction.

[1]
https://nypost.com/2022/12/02/florida-cannibal-killer-austin-harrouff-could-be-free-in-six-months/

Oh, unable to control himself? Maybe we should hand him a
machete and turn him loose in the subway. Prison might hurt
his sensitive feelings.

[2]https://cwbchicago.com/2022/11/51-chicago-drug-dealer-beat-man-vacant-lot-on-bail.html

Note chart on that page. Also note he used a dread 'Assault
Rock" for this one.

[Tom Kunich]

Hope your brother has completely recovered. I was hit while directly in front of a woman who looking to the right saw the car next to her turning right and instead of looking ahead, simply took off as well. There was no question whose fault it was. But I was rather put out that all of the cars containing witnesses left the scene. Nevertheless, the position in which the accident occurred was pretty much entirely self explanatory. In downtown Oakland when my tubeless tire blew off of the rim several cars stopped blocking traffic to render aid. No one complained at the wait as I was helped to my feet.

[John B.]

For years and years people have been saying that "Guns don't kill
people, people kill people".
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Catrike Rider]

On Sat, 03 Dec 2022 05:47:23 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>

I'd have nothing to do with gun that went around killing people,
unless it had a good reason, that is.

[Frank Krygowski]

On 12/2/2022 4:05 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>
> [2]https://cwbchicago.com/2022/11/51-chicago-drug-dealer-beat-man-vacant-lot-on-bail.html
>
> Note chart on that page. Also note he used a dread 'Assault Rock" for
> this one.

Would you rather have someone come at you with an assault rock or with
an AR-15?

--
- Frank Krygowski

[AMuzi]

I'll take 'none of the above' please.

In fairness it was more or less justified. Who pays their
regular dope dealer with bad paper? Sheesh.

[Frank Krygowski]

On 12/2/2022 5:47 PM, John B. wrote:
>
>
> For years and years people have been saying that "Guns don't kill
> people, people kill people".

Bombs don't kill people. People kill people.

Hand grenades don't kill people. People kill people.

Land mines don't kill people. People kill people.

Are all those legal where you live? If not, why not?

And do you own an AR-style rifle yet? Why not?

--
- Frank Krygowski

[John B.]

There are, I believe, some 20 million AR type firearms in the hands of
USians
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/08/25/why-even-more-americans-are-arming-up-with-ar-15-guns.html

And yet, according to FBI statistics, in 2019 there were 364 cases of
rifles being used in homicides.... and
1,476 cases of knives used, and
397 cases of blunt objects being used and
600 cases of "human", i.e. fists, feet, etc. used.

So, 364/20 million is...0.0018% of the Assault Rifles in Civilian
hands in the U.S. that were, possible, used to murder people.

Your fantasies regarding these terribly dangerious Assault rifles is
duly noted.
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Frank Krygowski]

Gosh, you somehow missed my questions!

--
- Frank Krygowski

[John B.]

On Fri, 2 Dec 2022 21:33:51 -0500, Frank Krygowski

Nice one. Disregard reality and ask foolish questions.

But to answer your questions -

Are all those legal where you live? If not, why not?

I have no idea as the subject has never arisen.

And do you own an AR-style rifle yet? Why not?

Nope. Why not? Because I don't want one.

Care to invent any more silly question in your efforts to avoid
reality?

--
Cheers,

John B.

[AK]

On Monday, November 28, 2022 at 6:25:33 PM UTC-6, Catrike Rider wrote:
> A 23-year-old woman with a concealed-carry permit defended herself
> against four armed men who attempted to carjack her last week on the
> South Side of Chicago.
>
> The woman, who remains unidentified, was sitting in her car in the
> Calumet Heights neighborhood just after 2 a.m. on Wednesday near 89th
> Street and Kenwood Avenue when four men spilled out of a black sedan,
> according to a local CBS affiliate.
>
> When one of the men attempted to open her car door while holding a
> gun, the woman shot the would-be carjacker in the head before running
> away from the car.
>
> One of the other men reportedly shot her in the left arm, and she was
> later taken to Advocate Trinity Hospital in fair condition.
>
> The man who she shot in the head was reportedly taken to University of
> Chicago Medical Center in critical condition, though the woman's other
> three attackers escaped from the scene.
>
> The Chicago Police Department did not immediately respond to Fox News
> Digital's request for comment.
>
> Crime has spiked in the Windy City in the last year, with homicides
> reaching an all-time high in a quarter-century in 2021.
>
> Robbery reports have surged 15% in 2022, according to Chicago police
> records. Holdups have gone up 11% since 2020 and 2019, though they
> decreased 10% compared to 2018.
>
> https://www.foxnews.com/us/chicago-woman-concealed-carry-license-foils-attempted-carjacking-shooting-man-head?dicbo=v2-2b87b696f0f7165cc98997d0b967326d

This is a bicycle group.

If you are going to be off topic, could you least post something positive.?

Andy

[Catrike Rider]

On Sat, 03 Dec 2022 09:17:22 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>
wrote:

Frank cannot justify his fear of ARs. The only reason he is afraid of
them is because his fear-mongering, group thinking "leaders" tell him
to be afraid. TRuth is, Gibberish Joe can't even explain his obsession
with them.

[Catrike Rider]

On Fri, 2 Dec 2022 20:45:27 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

I don't, and probably never will own one. I have no use for any kind
of long gun, but I know people who have them and use them for varmints
and even for deer. I know people who sail offshore and have them. If
I was still sailing offshore I'd probably have one. If I was running
a brick and morter business I'd probably have one.

Like any other long guns, ARs and AKs have limited value for personal
protection. They're too big to carry around and too awkward to use in
close-in and multi-directional situations.

IMHO, they also have limited value for a person intent on mass
shooting. If somebody carried one into a store, it would likely be
spotted, and many, including myself, would probably make a quick exit,
however, a person carrying a concealed handgun would probably not even
be noticed. I would consider anyone walking around with a long gun to
be some sort of a freak and I would go the other way.

[Catrike Rider]

On Fri, 2 Dec 2022 21:33:51 -0500, Frank Krygowski

<LOL> FRank demands answers...

[Catrike Rider]

On Fri, 2 Dec 2022 20:35:53 -0800 (PST), AK <scienti...@gmail.com>
wrote:

Shooting car jackers is positive.

[Tom Kunich]

Andy, I post constantly about bicycle topics and these are very often pushed into political discussions that have nothing at all to do with bicycles. I have given up to the point that I will post anything that comes to mind as well. Most of these people don't even ride bicycles. Flunky claims to race but the bicycles he claims to own ae entirely inappropriate for racing. Frank has said that he no longer rides because he is getting too old. That is a perfectly valid excuse if he didn't decide that he should criticize my buying framesets and building them into complete bikes. I have never bought a complete bicycle.

But though I post about technical subjects the only one that ever comments on them is Andrew when I need advice (such as buying a specialized tool for removing a particular type of bottom bracket) The people posting the most do not ride bicycles. Why would Krygowski use this as his anti-gun forum with his belief that the 2nd Amendment doesn't exist?

Flunky spouting his stupid belief in climate change despite all evidence showing contrary? Liebermann's claim of millions of deaths from covid-19 when the CDC page "Excess deaths from covid-19" states that only 9,954 people died from it and almost entirely in late March and early April of 2020 with deaths from unclassified respiratory diseases (covid-19) since then BELOW NORMAL? Isn't that positive? Why any discussion at all about masks working when every study honestly done since 1918 shows that they don't do a thing?

So if you want bicycle content, please feel free to add some yourself. There are still those here who actually ride bicycles that would comment.

[Frank Krygowski]

You mean there are no rabid Bomb Rights organizations where you live? No
one advocating Open Carry of hand grenades?

That must be a very repressive society with no freedom!

> And do you own an AR-style rifle yet? Why not?
> Nope. Why not? Because I don't want one.

But... but... but how will you protect your family if the bad guys start
breaking down your door? I thought everybody needed one for home
defense! That's why so many shooting ranges here use human silhouette
targets.

Are you telling me ARs are not needed??

--
- Frank Krygowski

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Sat, 3 Dec 2022 08:01:42 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
<cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Liebermann's claim of millions of deaths from covid-19...

You can't count, provide a source, or provide quote where I allegedly
said that.

"WHO Coronavirus (COVID-19) Dashboard"
<https://covid19.who.int/>
The tables and charts on the CDC page show 6,618,579 deaths.

09/16/2022
<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/H5UQas_9HLA/m/P59q4Da4BQAJ>
"When you're talking about 150 Billion vaccinations, even very small
probabilities occur."

The world population is only 8 Billion.



--
Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

[Frank Krygowski]

On 12/3/2022 11:01 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 8:35:55 PM UTC-8, AK wrote:
>>
>> This is a bicycle group.
>>
>> If you are going to be off topic, could you least post something positive.?
>
> Andy, I post constantly about bicycle topics and these are very often pushed into political discussions that have nothing at all to do with bicycles.

That is the worst bullshit Tom has posted in weeks, and that's a high
bar. He is by FAR the worst offender at deflecting discussions into his
political craziness. Nobody else comes close.

--
- Frank Krygowski

[funkma...@hotmail.com]

Tommy is the biggest offender when it comes to the first political/personal attack in a thread.

> Most of these people don't even ride bicycles. Flunky claims to race but the bicycles he claims to own ae entirely inappropriate for racing.

Sure sparky, my Scott CR1 is inappropriate, as was my Cube Aerium, my Giant Team TCR, and my Devinci Road.....dumbass.

> Frank has said that he no longer rides because he is getting too old. That is a perfectly valid excuse if he didn't decide that he should criticize my buying framesets and building them into complete bikes. I have never bought a complete bicycle.
>
> But though I post about technical subjects the only one that ever comments on them is Andrew when I need advice (such as buying a specialized tool for removing a particular type of bottom bracket) The people posting the most do not ride bicycles. Why would Krygowski use this as his anti-gun forum with his belief that the 2nd Amendment doesn't exist?

Frank has never started a conversation about guns, you have, and he's fully aware of the 2nd amendment. Unlike you, he actually understands it.

> Flunky spouting his stupid belief in climate change despite all evidence showing contrary?

Good luck with that one!

> Liebermann's claim of millions of deaths from covid-19 when the CDC page "Excess deaths from covid-19" states that only 9,954 people died from it and almost entirely in late March and early April of 2020 with deaths from unclassified respiratory diseases (covid-19) since then BELOW NORMAL? Isn't that positive? Why any discussion at all about masks working when every study honestly done since 1918 shows that they don't do a thing?
>

No matter how many times you tell that lie, it won't get any more true.

> So if you want bicycle content, please feel free to add some yourself. There are still those here who actually ride bicycles that would comment.

Any day now tommy will post his latest mechanical problem that no one else has had a problem with.

[Catrike Rider]

On Sat, 3 Dec 2022 10:06:13 -0800 (PST), "funkma...@hotmail.com"
<funkma...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>Frank has never started a conversation about guns, you have, and he's fully=

> aware of the 2nd amendment. Unlike you, he actually understands it.

It's pretty easy to understand. It says the government cannot infringe
on people's right to keep and bear arms.

[Tom Kunich]

Flunky prefers ignorance to knowledge.

[Catrike Rider]

I think the Supreme Court put the diagreements about the meaning of
2nd amendment to bed. The militia clause does not modify the RKBA
clause and anyone that understands grade school grammar already knew
that.

[Ralph Barone]

Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 3 Dec 2022 08:01:42 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Liebermann's claim of millions of deaths from covid-19...
>
> You can't count, provide a source, or provide quote where I allegedly
> said that.
>
> "WHO Coronavirus (COVID-19) Dashboard"
> <https://covid19.who.int/>
> The tables and charts on the CDC page show 6,618,579 deaths.
>
> 09/16/2022
> <https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/H5UQas_9HLA/m/P59q4Da4BQAJ>
> "When you're talking about 150 Billion vaccinations, even very small
> probabilities occur."
>
> The world population is only 8 Billion.
>

Yeah, but I’m getting my 21st booster shot on Monday :-). <—— Note the
sarcasm indicator.

[Tom Kunich]

The media is reporting the number of vaccine shots as the percentage of the population vaccinated. According to them, over 70% of the worlds population has been vaccinated.

I don't like this sort of misrepresentation. People like Tim are completely taken in and frightened into following the mob because he doesn't know that wearing a mask constantly is a source of respiratory diseases like pneumonia. Or that the side effects of the mRNA vaccines have killed more people than covid-19. Why wasn't it front page news that Fauci and other heads of the NIH and FDA were GIVEN $100 million from the vaccine companies?

[Frank Krygowski]

On 12/3/2022 3:57 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>
> The media is reporting the number of vaccine shots as the percentage of the population vaccinated. According to them, over 70% of the worlds population has been vaccinated.

Well, fewer Republicans have gotten vaccinated.

Oddly enough, more Republicans have died. Who would have guessed? ;-)

https://insights.som.yale.edu/insights/once-covid-vaccines-were-introduced-more-republicans-died-than-democrats

--
- Frank Krygowski

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Sat, 3 Dec 2022 20:37:02 -0000 (UTC), Ralph Barone
<ra...@invalid.com> wrote:

>Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com> wrote:
>> On Sat, 3 Dec 2022 08:01:42 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
>> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Liebermann's claim of millions of deaths from covid-19...
>>
>> You can't count, provide a source, or provide quote where I allegedly
>> said that.
>>
>> "WHO Coronavirus (COVID-19) Dashboard"
>> <https://covid19.who.int/>
>> The tables and charts on the CDC page show 6,618,579 deaths.
>>
>> 09/16/2022
>> <https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/H5UQas_9HLA/m/P59q4Da4BQAJ>
>> "When you're talking about 150 Billion vaccinations, even very small
>> probabilities occur."
>>
>> The world population is only 8 Billion.

>Yeah, but I知 getting my 21st booster shot on Monday :-). <覧 Note the
>sarcasm indicator.

Sarcasm noted. However, your sarcastic booster nightmare might come
true. It seems that with the new emerging viruses, vaccines,
boosters, and PCR/antigen testing may soon become part of our lives.
Covid-19 was a good start, but now we have new Covid-19 variants,
MPXV, RSV, and influenza A to worry about. I may have had RSV for
most of November. I don't know for sure because I wasn't tested.
Despite the rather vocal noises made by the Anti-Vax movement, there
is a demand for vaccines, boosters and testing that is unlikely to
disappear. Perhaps we're all turning into hypochondriacs?

Rapidly increasing amounts of RSV genomic RNA found in our local
wastewater (Santa Cruz County, California)
<http://publichealth.verily.com/#Santa%20Cruz%20County,%20CA:RSV>

[Catrike Rider]

You're free to wear a mask for as long as you're afraid, Frank.

[John B.]

On Sat, 3 Dec 2022 12:36:38 -0500, Frank Krygowski

You are beginning to slid right down the slippery slope with Tommy -
ranting and raving over imaginary problems.

I post actual statistics and you post fantasies. Rather like the
argument in the book 1984... that 2 plus 2 is actually 5.... because
Big Brother says it is.
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Sat, 3 Dec 2022 16:16:25 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>On 12/3/2022 3:57 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>
>> The media is reporting the number of vaccine shots as the percentage of the population vaccinated. According to them, over 70% of the worlds population has been vaccinated.

The numbers seem to be reported in several ways. Those that have
received at least one vaccination, partly vaccinated, with and without
boosters, and fully vaccinated:
<https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations>
Check the "Relative to Population" box.
In the "Interval box" select "cumulative".
The "Metric box offers various choices:
For example "Fully Vaccinated" shows 5.02 billion. For a world
population of 8.0 billion, that would be 63%. Lots of other
interesting numbers in the left sidebar menu.

>Well, fewer Republicans have gotten vaccinated.
>Oddly enough, more Republicans have died. Who would have guessed? ;-)
>https://insights.som.yale.edu/insights/once-covid-vaccines-were-introduced-more-republicans-died-than-democrats

There must be a conspiracy here. Obviously, the vaccines were
formulated to kill Republicans and spare Democrats. There is probably
a DNA sequence that predisposes people to register as Republicans.

[Tom Kunich]

You're always seeing comments like this coming from Krygowski. The CDC ADMITTED THAT THE VACCINES DID NOT PREVENT INFECTION OR DEATH and didn't even protect against transmission of the virus.

So I wonder if that moronic idiot Krygowski could explain why less vaccinations would lead to more deaths? Why do you suppose that lying sack of shit didn't mention that it occurred in only TWO states and those with the oldest populations - Ohio and Florida? Is it any surprise that older people tend to be more conservative and hence Republicans?

https://www.reddit.com/r/CanadaNoVax/comments/z9fqmh/cdc_quietly_confirms_at_least_118k_children_and/

[John B.]

On Sat, 3 Dec 2022 20:37:02 -0000 (UTC), Ralph Barone
<ra...@invalid.com> wrote:

>Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com> wrote:
>> On Sat, 3 Dec 2022 08:01:42 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
>> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Liebermann's claim of millions of deaths from covid-19...
>>
>> You can't count, provide a source, or provide quote where I allegedly
>> said that.
>>
>> "WHO Coronavirus (COVID-19) Dashboard"
>> <https://covid19.who.int/>
>> The tables and charts on the CDC page show 6,618,579 deaths.
>>
>> 09/16/2022
>> <https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/H5UQas_9HLA/m/P59q4Da4BQAJ>
>> "When you're talking about 150 Billion vaccinations, even very small
>> probabilities occur."
>>
>> The world population is only 8 Billion.
>>

>Yeah, but I知 getting my 21st booster shot on Monday :-). <覧 Note the
>sarcasm indicator.

Reality beckons:

The world population is some 7,947,630,700, a couple of minutes ago -
https://tinyurl.com/ypenu9su
and
some 13.01 billion doses have been administered, and that 68.5 of the
world's population has received at least one dose.
https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations

--
Cheers,

John B.

[Frank Krygowski]

> You are beginning to slid [suc] right down the slippery slope with Tommy -

> ranting and raving over imaginary problems.

Mass shootings may be an imaginary problem where you live. In the U.S.
they are far from imaginary.

> I post actual statistics and you post fantasies.

This isn't fantasy:
https://www.newsweek.com/ar15-rifles-killed-this-many-people-mass-shootings-2022-1760963

What you _haven't_ posted are incidents where citizens used the
capabilities of AR-style rifles for real life, practical and legitimate
purposes like home defense.

In fact, despite repeated requests, you've never posted an advantage of
widespread AR ownership that balances the disadvantages, such as mass
shootings, greater risks and defense expenses for police, etc.

You certainly demonstrate that they are far from necessary by your
choice to not own one.

--
- Frank Krygowski

[Catrike Rider]

On Sat, 3 Dec 2022 19:49:57 -0500, Frank Krygowski

From your cite:

Handguns have been used in about 75 percent of mass shootings since
1982, research by Statista shows.

[John B.]

On Sat, 3 Dec 2022 19:49:57 -0500, Frank Krygowski

More foolishness posted by Frank -
His reference states that "AR-15 Rifles Have Killed at Least 36 People
in Mass Shootings This Year"... a really terrifying figure.

BUT... FBI statistics for 2021 (sorry 2022 isn't over yet) state that
" Handguns are by far the most common murder weapon used in the United
States, accounting for 6,012 homicides in 2021"
https://www.statista.com/statistics/195325/murder-victims-in-the-us-by-weapon-used/

So AR type were used in some 36 homicides while handguns, i.e.,
pistols were used in some 167 times as many homicides so, logically,
we should do something about these deadly and horrifying AR guns.

As I have mentioned in the past, I deal with reality while Frank deals
in fantasy.
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Frank Krygowski]

In my view, a handgun fetish is foolish; and noting the number of
handgun murders is a pretty lousy attempt at handgun promotion.

But AR-style weapons are an even more blatant example of insanity than
handguns. The fact that you consistently try to change the subject away
from AR weapons is evidence of that fact.

It's easy to list incidents in which perpetrators used AR-style guns for
mass murder. Can you name a few instances where a citizen legitimately
and legally used an AR-15 or similar rifle to protect himself or others?

Advantages and disadvantages, John. And don't try to change the subject.
If you deflect from the ARs, it's proof you have no legitimate way of
defending them.

--
- Frank Krygowski

[Catrike Rider]

On Sun, 4 Dec 2022 12:43:37 -0500, Frank Krygowski

Krygowski's is saying that ARs are bad, and he challenges others to
prove him wrong. Fact is that they are neither good nor bad, they
just are... Just like bicycles.

[AMuzi]

>"...legitimately and legally used an AR-15 ...?"

too easy. here's one:
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/home-invader-fatally-shot-florida-pregnant-woman-ar-15-n1076026

but then again in close quarters there's a lot to be said
for a riot gun:
https://www.insider.com/california-senior-shoots-intruder-armed-ar-15-has-heart-attack-2022-8

Since this is going nowhere, how about let's just move on.



--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[Frank Krygowski]

That's one. I asked for a few, because obviously I have far, far more
than a few murders using ARs that I could cite.

Also, I'll notice that she shot once. She could have done that with a
shotgun or hunting rifle. She didn't need the design features of an AR.

And if it were not for the proliferation of guns in the U.S., she might
not have needed to shoot at all. Guns give twerps confidence to attempt
robbery.

> but then again in close quarters there's a lot to be said for a riot gun:
> https://www.insider.com/california-senior-shoots-intruder-armed-ar-15-has-heart-attack-2022-8

Right! A shotgun is more effective than an AR in a real defense
situation. It might be more effective than an AR at repelling an attack
even if it were loaded with bird shot.

--
- Frank Krygowski

[AK]

I frequently post bicycle messages here and at https://bicycles.stackexchange.com/.

Andy

[Catrike Rider]

On Sun, 4 Dec 2022 14:44:20 -0500, Frank Krygowski

...and far, far, far, far, far, more murders with handguns...

>Also, I'll notice that she shot once. She could have done that with a
>shotgun or hunting rifle. She didn't need the design features of an AR.

What makes you think that the pistol grip didn't make the gun easier
to wield and fire? That's why the military uses pistol grip guns.

>And if it were not for the proliferation of guns in the U.S., she might
>not have needed to shoot at all. Guns give twerps confidence to attempt
>robbery.
>
>> but then again in close quarters there's a lot to be said for a riot gun:
>> https://www.insider.com/california-senior-shoots-intruder-armed-ar-15-has-heart-attack-2022-8
>
>Right! A shotgun is more effective than an AR in a real defense
>situation. It might be more effective than an AR at repelling an attack
>even if it were loaded with bird shot.

Sometimes, but not for conceal carry.

https://gunprime.com/products/lkci-vezir-b100-desert-tan-semi-auto-bullpup-12-ga-18-barrel-b100-desert
https://tinyurl.com/2ouh36qs

Perhaps for defending your home or business, but collateral damage can
be a problem, which is one of several reasons I won't go that route.

[Tom Kunich]

I was sent and advertisement about lever action rifles and as part of the advertisement they had a guy empty the entire magazine into the bullseye of the target at 100 yards faster than I can shoot a semiautomatic. Just another demonstration that Frank knows nothing at all about guns and they being "assault weapons" and somehow being more dangerous than other multishot weapons.

I used to go down to a shooting range in Concord that had the rifle and pistol ranges right next to each other. There was a guy there that could empty an entire M1 magazine into the black so fast that it almost sounded like one explosion. To hit anything I have always had to aim each shot. If Krygowski had seen that he would be claiming that no one should EVER need a semiautomatic weapon. There is something wrong with him and he thinks he is front of a classroom and that everyone should hang on every word that comes from him as if they are going to have to know it in a test. The dementia of his continues to grow.

[John B.]

Yes, as someone or another said, a long time ago, "guns don't kill
people, people kill people"

But what is also rather amazing is that someone who, apparently, is
employed to teach children in the U.S. is so divorced from reality.
Perhaps 2 plus 2 really is 5.
--
Cheers,

John B.