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Catrike Rider
Jul 2, 2023, 4:49:00 PM7/2/23
to
I've now catalogued 41 individual and matched pairs of items on my
bicycles and can see how old and how many miles each item has
registered. The system automatically updates the age and mileage and
indicates how far toward being worn out each item is based on the
item's estimated useful life span. The estimated life spans, of course
will be updated as the actual recorded life spans becomes available.
I'm also able to observe, judge, and compare my performance over my 13
years of recorded history of (now) 879 rides.
Software is another kind of tech. Yeah, I know it's not essential for
simply riding a bicycle, but I've enjoyed doing it and it's way more
enjoyable than arguing about helmets, guns, and electric cars.
Roger Meriman
Jul 2, 2023, 6:53:34 PM7/2/23
to
barely 500 miles but is getting there! Where as disk pads are fairly
consistent even with wet weather at least with my probably fairly gentle
use!
Though my Gravel and commute bikes are fairly consistent with drive chains
ie around 3k give or take.
Though the MTB is ridden in filthy conditions which probably does vary it
more!
Roger Merriman
Catrike Rider
Jul 2, 2023, 7:45:05 PM7/2/23
to
On Sun, 02 Jul 2023 22:53:31 GMT, Roger Meriman <ro...@sarlet.com>
wrote:
I've been getting 5/6K miles. Almost all my riding is on very clean
asphalt, and my chain is roughly three times longer that yours. That
means that the chain interacts with the sprockets only 1/3 as much for
the same mileage. I'm also a lower cadence pedeler which means I use
higher gear ratios and get more miles with each chain rotation.
wrote:
asphalt, and my chain is roughly three times longer that yours. That
means that the chain interacts with the sprockets only 1/3 as much for
the same mileage. I'm also a lower cadence pedeler which means I use
higher gear ratios and get more miles with each chain rotation.
Roger Meriman
Jul 3, 2023, 5:14:32 AM7/3/23
to
the variables in terms of wear on the MTB chain/cassette which are 75%
there already at 500 miles last time it lasted 1.5k so a fair drop but
probably due to usage! I have used it a fair bit in winter which is a wet
grinding time!
Roger Merriman
Tom Kunich
Jul 3, 2023, 12:57:28 PM7/3/23
to
James
Jul 3, 2023, 8:46:55 PM7/3/23
to
On 3/7/23 08:53, Roger Meriman wrote:
>
> Though my Gravel and commute bikes are fairly consistent with drive chains
> ie around 3k give or take.
My gravel bike has done 4640km since Christmas, and I measured the chain
>
> Though my Gravel and commute bikes are fairly consistent with drive chains
> ie around 3k give or take.
on Sunday. I didn't notice much elongation over 12 inches. Maybe
1/32". I.e. < 1mm.
I try to ride as much gravel road as I can, but it's still probably
under 50%. I used it for a few wet road rides, but mostly dry when on
the gravel.
11 speed Campagnolo, except the cranks that are Sh1tmano GRX, & the BB.
I lube with a hot wax and oil bath.
--
JS
Roger Meriman
Jul 4, 2023, 9:47:13 AM7/4/23
to
fairly high mileage out of your chain! Uk tends to lot wetter conditions
even around London, and uk gravel is famously more technical ie much less
unpaved road so often more MTB lite!
Roger Merriman
James
Jul 4, 2023, 9:55:42 PM7/4/23
to
with a lump of moly grease added for good measure. Highly scientific
blend. I concocted it myself.
For where I live, according to one website, "There is rainfall during
all months of the year. The average annual temperature is 24° degrees
and there is about 1362 mm of rain in a year. It is dry for 117 days a
year with an average humidity of 78% and an UV-index of 5."
According to Encyclopedia Britannica on London's annual rainfall, "In an
average year one can expect 200 dry days out of 365 and a precipitation
total of about 23 inches (585 mm) evenly distributed across the 12 months."
London appears to be dryer than where I live, and while I try to avoid
riding in wet weather, I'm not always successful.
About the roughness of gravel roads here, while I don't go out of my way
to ride the rougher roads, there are plenty that I do ride that get
rough. I recently changed from 40mm to 45mm tyres, and 50mm or more
would be better on some of the "roads".
--
JS
Andre Jute
Jul 5, 2023, 1:55:01 AM7/5/23
to
>
About bigger tyres: It's a false economy in your comfort, if you have the fork width, to ride on anything less than 60mm tyres. 50mm sound like it is almost there, but it isn't. On a 622mm rim, 60mm tyre width contains double the volume of air. Schwalbe knows this; that's why they make tyres in 45, 47, 50, 55 and 60mm, in order to give everyone a chance to achieve the maximum air volume of tyres on their bikes.
>
Andre Jute
The Toes Knows -- Stephen J Cannell, for his television series Wiseguy
>
Roger Meriman
Jul 5, 2023, 4:57:42 AM7/5/23
to
weather riding. Also I am back in wales a lot which is many times wetter
getting more so the further west you go.
It’s seems to be much more of a roadie thing to do possibly due to that
reason ie will need to reapply after wet rides?
>
>
> About the roughness of gravel roads here, while I don't go out of my way
> to ride the rougher roads, there are plenty that I do ride that get
> rough. I recently changed from 40mm to 45mm tyres, and 50mm or more
> would be better on some of the "roads".
>
As ever it’s perspectives I generally try to keep the Gravel bike to milder
>
> About the roughness of gravel roads here, while I don't go out of my way
> to ride the rougher roads, there are plenty that I do ride that get
> rough. I recently changed from 40mm to 45mm tyres, and 50mm or more
> would be better on some of the "roads".
>
stuff as I’ve ripped tires before now. But that doesn’t change that America
which is the birthplace of Gravel bikes seems to have more unpaved fire
type roads which does exist in the uk but much less so.
Are old droving roads but these are often on the rocky side of things, so
can be on the edge of MTB or Gravel terrain. And differ depending on
season.
Roger Merriman
Tom Kunich
Jul 5, 2023, 12:41:03 PM7/5/23
to
James
Jul 10, 2023, 11:48:49 PM7/10/23
to
On 5/7/23 18:57, Roger Meriman wrote:
>
> It’s more Wax isn’t generally thought of as particularly good for wet
> weather riding. Also I am back in wales a lot which is many times wetter
> getting more so the further west you go.
>
> It’s seems to be much more of a roadie thing to do possibly due to that
> reason ie will need to reapply after wet rides?
As I wrote, my concoction has 50% gear oil. I can usually get at least
>
> It’s more Wax isn’t generally thought of as particularly good for wet
> weather riding. Also I am back in wales a lot which is many times wetter
> getting more so the further west you go.
>
> It’s seems to be much more of a roadie thing to do possibly due to that
> reason ie will need to reapply after wet rides?
a couple of wet rides in before I reapply the lubricant. In fact, I
rode from Canberra to Melbourne with a group over the Snowy Mountains,
some years ago, and the first 4 days we got wet, on and off. By the end
of the week my road bike chain didn't sound dry, and in fact I kept
riding it for a couple of weeks after I got back before the next hot
lube bath.
> As ever it’s perspectives I generally try to keep the Gravel bike to milder
> stuff as I’ve ripped tires before now. But that doesn’t change that America
> which is the birthplace of Gravel bikes seems to have more unpaved fire
> type roads which does exist in the uk but much less so.
>
> Are old droving roads but these are often on the rocky side of things, so
> can be on the edge of MTB or Gravel terrain. And differ depending on
> season.
there are places in Australia where the rocks are sharper, I rarely
damage the casings where I ride, but the rocks can easily be big enough
and lumpy enough to give pinch flats.
There are plenty of unpaved roads where I live. The surface varies from
smooth hard packed dirt and gravel, which can be smoother than coarse
chip sealed roads, and then there are roads that are covered by 50mm rocks.
--
JS
Roger Meriman
Jul 11, 2023, 8:17:29 AM7/11/23
to
James <james.e...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 5/7/23 18:57, Roger Meriman wrote:
>>
>> It’s more Wax isn’t generally thought of as particularly good for wet
>> weather riding. Also I am back in wales a lot which is many times wetter
>> getting more so the further west you go.
>>
>> It’s seems to be much more of a roadie thing to do possibly due to that
>> reason ie will need to reapply after wet rides?
>
> As I wrote, my concoction has 50% gear oil. I can usually get at least
> a couple of wet rides in before I reapply the lubricant. In fact, I
> rode from Canberra to Melbourne with a group over the Snowy Mountains,
> some years ago, and the first 4 days we got wet, on and off. By the end
> of the week my road bike chain didn't sound dry, and in fact I kept
> riding it for a couple of weeks after I got back before the next hot
> lube bath.
Sounds less hassle than some systems I personally don’t remove from the
> On 5/7/23 18:57, Roger Meriman wrote:
>>
>> It’s more Wax isn’t generally thought of as particularly good for wet
>> weather riding. Also I am back in wales a lot which is many times wetter
>> getting more so the further west you go.
>>
>> It’s seems to be much more of a roadie thing to do possibly due to that
>> reason ie will need to reapply after wet rides?
>
> As I wrote, my concoction has 50% gear oil. I can usually get at least
> a couple of wet rides in before I reapply the lubricant. In fact, I
> rode from Canberra to Melbourne with a group over the Snowy Mountains,
> some years ago, and the first 4 days we got wet, on and off. By the end
> of the week my road bike chain didn't sound dry, and in fact I kept
> riding it for a couple of weeks after I got back before the next hot
> lube bath.
bike, I clean on bike and re lube at least in winter in summer or at least
when it’s dry and dusty it’s not needed bar occasionally.
>
>> As ever it’s perspectives I generally try to keep the Gravel bike to milder
>> stuff as I’ve ripped tires before now. But that doesn’t change that America
>> which is the birthplace of Gravel bikes seems to have more unpaved fire
>> type roads which does exist in the uk but much less so.
>>
>> Are old droving roads but these are often on the rocky side of things, so
>> can be on the edge of MTB or Gravel terrain. And differ depending on
>> season.
>
> I've never ridden in the USA. I live in Australia. Though I'm sure
> there are places in Australia where the rocks are sharper, I rarely
> damage the casings where I ride, but the rocks can easily be big enough
> and lumpy enough to give pinch flats.
Have you experimented with tubless? Which largely though not wholly removes
>> As ever it’s perspectives I generally try to keep the Gravel bike to milder
>> stuff as I’ve ripped tires before now. But that doesn’t change that America
>> which is the birthplace of Gravel bikes seems to have more unpaved fire
>> type roads which does exist in the uk but much less so.
>>
>> Are old droving roads but these are often on the rocky side of things, so
>> can be on the edge of MTB or Gravel terrain. And differ depending on
>> season.
>
> I've never ridden in the USA. I live in Australia. Though I'm sure
> there are places in Australia where the rocks are sharper, I rarely
> damage the casings where I ride, but the rocks can easily be big enough
> and lumpy enough to give pinch flats.
pinch flat punctures. Clearly can still ding rims/burp air/damage the
sidewall if one is very brutal!
>
> There are plenty of unpaved roads where I live. The surface varies from
> smooth hard packed dirt and gravel, which can be smoother than coarse
> chip sealed roads, and then there are roads that are covered by 50mm rocks.
>
Locally some areas have lot of flint outcrops which as you’d expect are
> There are plenty of unpaved roads where I live. The surface varies from
> smooth hard packed dirt and gravel, which can be smoother than coarse
> chip sealed roads, and then there are roads that are covered by 50mm rocks.
>
quite capable of slicing open tire’s particularly lightweight stuff like
gravel tires, met some folks last year on the Ridgeway which has a very
flinty section who where patching a tire.
Roger Merriman
Frank Krygowski
Jul 11, 2023, 11:53:04 AM7/11/23
to
On 7/11/2023 8:17 AM, Roger Meriman wrote:
> James <james.e...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 5/7/23 18:57, Roger Meriman wrote:
>>>
>>> It’s more Wax isn’t generally thought of as particularly good for wet
>>> weather riding. Also I am back in wales a lot which is many times wetter
>>> getting more so the further west you go.
>>>
>>> It’s seems to be much more of a roadie thing to do possibly due to that
>>> reason ie will need to reapply after wet rides?
>>
>> As I wrote, my concoction has 50% gear oil. I can usually get at least
>> a couple of wet rides in before I reapply the lubricant. In fact, I
>> rode from Canberra to Melbourne with a group over the Snowy Mountains,
>> some years ago, and the first 4 days we got wet, on and off. By the end
>> of the week my road bike chain didn't sound dry, and in fact I kept
>> riding it for a couple of weeks after I got back before the next hot
>> lube bath.
>
> Sounds less hassle than some systems I personally don’t remove from the
> bike, I clean on bike and re lube at least in winter in summer or at least
> when it’s dry and dusty it’s not needed bar occasionally.
I re-wax with the chain on the bike. I warm the lower strand of chain
> James <james.e...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 5/7/23 18:57, Roger Meriman wrote:
>>>
>>> It’s more Wax isn’t generally thought of as particularly good for wet
>>> weather riding. Also I am back in wales a lot which is many times wetter
>>> getting more so the further west you go.
>>>
>>> It’s seems to be much more of a roadie thing to do possibly due to that
>>> reason ie will need to reapply after wet rides?
>>
>> As I wrote, my concoction has 50% gear oil. I can usually get at least
>> a couple of wet rides in before I reapply the lubricant. In fact, I
>> rode from Canberra to Melbourne with a group over the Snowy Mountains,
>> some years ago, and the first 4 days we got wet, on and off. By the end
>> of the week my road bike chain didn't sound dry, and in fact I kept
>> riding it for a couple of weeks after I got back before the next hot
>> lube bath.
>
> Sounds less hassle than some systems I personally don’t remove from the
> bike, I clean on bike and re lube at least in winter in summer or at least
> when it’s dry and dusty it’s not needed bar occasionally.
with a propane torch, apply the wax-oil cake as a crayon, reheat until
it flows in, then repeat foot by foot until done. I protect the tire and
frame with some sheet metal.
--
- Frank Krygowski
Catrike Rider
Jul 11, 2023, 12:40:45 PM7/11/23
to
On Tue, 11 Jul 2023 12:17:26 GMT, Roger Meriman <ro...@sarlet.com>
wrote:
>James <james.e...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 5/7/23 18:57, Roger Meriman wrote:
>>>
>>> It’s more Wax isn’t generally thought of as particularly good for wet
>>> weather riding. Also I am back in wales a lot which is many times wetter
>>> getting more so the further west you go.
>>>
>>> It’s seems to be much more of a roadie thing to do possibly due to that
>>> reason ie will need to reapply after wet rides?
>>
>> As I wrote, my concoction has 50% gear oil. I can usually get at least
>> a couple of wet rides in before I reapply the lubricant. In fact, I
>> rode from Canberra to Melbourne with a group over the Snowy Mountains,
>> some years ago, and the first 4 days we got wet, on and off. By the end
>> of the week my road bike chain didn't sound dry, and in fact I kept
>> riding it for a couple of weeks after I got back before the next hot
>> lube bath.
>
>Sounds less hassle than some systems I personally don’t remove from the
>bike, I clean on bike and re lube at least in winter in summer or at least
>when it’s dry and dusty it’s not needed bar occasionally.
With thirteen feet of chain, removing the chain and/or waxing is a
really big hassle. I use White Lightning Clean instead. I apply it
every three rides or so, around 150 miles, I wipe it with a shop rag
before and after the application.
<SNIP>
>
>Roger Merriman
>
wrote:
>James <james.e...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 5/7/23 18:57, Roger Meriman wrote:
>>>
>>> It’s more Wax isn’t generally thought of as particularly good for wet
>>> weather riding. Also I am back in wales a lot which is many times wetter
>>> getting more so the further west you go.
>>>
>>> It’s seems to be much more of a roadie thing to do possibly due to that
>>> reason ie will need to reapply after wet rides?
>>
>> As I wrote, my concoction has 50% gear oil. I can usually get at least
>> a couple of wet rides in before I reapply the lubricant. In fact, I
>> rode from Canberra to Melbourne with a group over the Snowy Mountains,
>> some years ago, and the first 4 days we got wet, on and off. By the end
>> of the week my road bike chain didn't sound dry, and in fact I kept
>> riding it for a couple of weeks after I got back before the next hot
>> lube bath.
>
>Sounds less hassle than some systems I personally don’t remove from the
>bike, I clean on bike and re lube at least in winter in summer or at least
>when it’s dry and dusty it’s not needed bar occasionally.
really big hassle. I use White Lightning Clean instead. I apply it
every three rides or so, around 150 miles, I wipe it with a shop rag
before and after the application.
<SNIP>
>
>Roger Merriman
>
Jeff Liebermann
Jul 11, 2023, 1:32:31 PM7/11/23
to
On Tue, 11 Jul 2023 12:40:41 -0400, Catrike Rider
<sol...@drafting.not> wrote:
>With thirteen feet of chain, removing the chain and/or waxing is a
>really big hassle. I use White Lightning Clean instead. I apply it
>every three rides or so, around 150 miles, I wipe it with a shop rag
>before and after the application.
<http://www.whitelightningco.com/products/lubricants/clean-ride>
<sol...@drafting.not> wrote:
>With thirteen feet of chain, removing the chain and/or waxing is a
>really big hassle. I use White Lightning Clean instead. I apply it
>every three rides or so, around 150 miles, I wipe it with a shop rag
>before and after the application.
<http://www.whitelightningco.com/files/Clean%20Ride_US%20SDS_English_30%20May%202014.pdf>
60% to 80% heptane
<1.3% isopropenol
No clue what the other non-hazardous 20-40% might be. My guess is a
little paraffin wax and maybe some water.
--
Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
Catrike Rider
Jul 11, 2023, 1:49:18 PM7/11/23
to
On Tue, 11 Jul 2023 10:32:19 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>
wrote:
>On Tue, 11 Jul 2023 12:40:41 -0400, Catrike Rider
><sol...@drafting.not> wrote:
>
>>With thirteen feet of chain, removing the chain and/or waxing is a
>>really big hassle. I use White Lightning Clean instead. I apply it
>>every three rides or so, around 150 miles, I wipe it with a shop rag
>>before and after the application.
>
><http://www.whitelightningco.com/products/lubricants/clean-ride>
><http://www.whitelightningco.com/files/Clean%20Ride_US%20SDS_English_30%20May%202014.pdf>
>60% to 80% heptane
><1.3% isopropenol
>No clue what the other non-hazardous 20-40% might be. My guess is a
>little paraffin wax and maybe some water.
My understanding is that the alcohol thins it so it can get into tight
places, then evaporates, leaving the wax.
wrote:
>On Tue, 11 Jul 2023 12:40:41 -0400, Catrike Rider
><sol...@drafting.not> wrote:
>
>>With thirteen feet of chain, removing the chain and/or waxing is a
>>really big hassle. I use White Lightning Clean instead. I apply it
>>every three rides or so, around 150 miles, I wipe it with a shop rag
>>before and after the application.
>
><http://www.whitelightningco.com/products/lubricants/clean-ride>
><http://www.whitelightningco.com/files/Clean%20Ride_US%20SDS_English_30%20May%202014.pdf>
>60% to 80% heptane
><1.3% isopropenol
>No clue what the other non-hazardous 20-40% might be. My guess is a
>little paraffin wax and maybe some water.
places, then evaporates, leaving the wax.
Jeff Liebermann
Jul 11, 2023, 2:58:13 PM7/11/23
to
On Tue, 11 Jul 2023 13:49:14 -0400, Catrike Rider
solvents such as water or alcohol. Paraffin wax will dissolve in
non-polar solvents, such as heptane.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heptane>
Incidentally, heptane is the solvent used in rubber cement.
Note that paraffin is my guess(tm) because it's probably the cheapest
wax. There are other waxes that might be a better choice, such as
"lubricating waxes".
<https://www.klueber.com/us/en/products-service/lubricants/lubricating-waxes/>
Heptane evaporates very slowly, which give you plenty of time to
remove the grease off the chain. When it's done evaporating, it
leaves a layer of wax as a residue.
The following is controversial. I don't think it will penetrate to
the wear parts of the chain. To do that would require TWO
applications. The first to remove the grease and crud from the chain.
The 2nd for capillary action to move the wax and solvent mix into the
moving parts. After the solvent evaporates, it would likely leave
voids in the wear areas. Filling these voids with oil is why a wax
and oil mix seems to work better than wax alone. The reason wax works
on bicycle chains is that it seals in the lube oils and seals out any
contaminants from chain parts. It would be much like a sealed
bearing, where instead of a rubber seal, it would be a wax seal.
End of controversial section.
<http://www.whitelightningco.com/products/lubricants/clean-ride>
The White Lightning "Clean Ride" is advertised as a "Legendary
Self-Cleaning Lubricant". I guess that there is some oil mixed in the
product. Instead of water, the missing 20-40% might be some type of
lube oil, such as mineral oil. For comparison, the WD-40 brand of
chain lube contains:
<https://files.wd40.com/pdf/sds/bike/wd-40-bike-all-conditions-chain-lube-us-ghs-ca.pdf>
Heptane 70-80%
Propane Propellant 10-20%
Petroleum Solvent 5-10%
Mineral Oil 1- 5%
<sol...@drafting.not> wrote:
>On Tue, 11 Jul 2023 10:32:19 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>
>wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 11 Jul 2023 12:40:41 -0400, Catrike Rider
>><sol...@drafting.not> wrote:
>>
>>>With thirteen feet of chain, removing the chain and/or waxing is a
>>>really big hassle. I use White Lightning Clean instead. I apply it
>>>every three rides or so, around 150 miles, I wipe it with a shop rag
>>>before and after the application.
>>
>><http://www.whitelightningco.com/products/lubricants/clean-ride>
>><http://www.whitelightningco.com/files/Clean%20Ride_US%20SDS_English_30%20May%202014.pdf>
>>60% to 80% heptane
>><1.3% isopropenol
>>No clue what the other non-hazardous 20-40% might be. My guess is a
>>little paraffin wax and maybe some water.
>My understanding is that the alcohol thins it so it can get into tight
>places, then evaporates, leaving the wax.
Yes, but not in alcohol. Paraffin wax does NOT dissolve in polar
>On Tue, 11 Jul 2023 10:32:19 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>
>wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 11 Jul 2023 12:40:41 -0400, Catrike Rider
>><sol...@drafting.not> wrote:
>>
>>>With thirteen feet of chain, removing the chain and/or waxing is a
>>>really big hassle. I use White Lightning Clean instead. I apply it
>>>every three rides or so, around 150 miles, I wipe it with a shop rag
>>>before and after the application.
>>
>><http://www.whitelightningco.com/products/lubricants/clean-ride>
>><http://www.whitelightningco.com/files/Clean%20Ride_US%20SDS_English_30%20May%202014.pdf>
>>60% to 80% heptane
>><1.3% isopropenol
>>No clue what the other non-hazardous 20-40% might be. My guess is a
>>little paraffin wax and maybe some water.
>My understanding is that the alcohol thins it so it can get into tight
>places, then evaporates, leaving the wax.
solvents such as water or alcohol. Paraffin wax will dissolve in
non-polar solvents, such as heptane.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heptane>
Incidentally, heptane is the solvent used in rubber cement.
Note that paraffin is my guess(tm) because it's probably the cheapest
wax. There are other waxes that might be a better choice, such as
"lubricating waxes".
<https://www.klueber.com/us/en/products-service/lubricants/lubricating-waxes/>
Heptane evaporates very slowly, which give you plenty of time to
remove the grease off the chain. When it's done evaporating, it
leaves a layer of wax as a residue.
The following is controversial. I don't think it will penetrate to
the wear parts of the chain. To do that would require TWO
applications. The first to remove the grease and crud from the chain.
The 2nd for capillary action to move the wax and solvent mix into the
moving parts. After the solvent evaporates, it would likely leave
voids in the wear areas. Filling these voids with oil is why a wax
and oil mix seems to work better than wax alone. The reason wax works
on bicycle chains is that it seals in the lube oils and seals out any
contaminants from chain parts. It would be much like a sealed
bearing, where instead of a rubber seal, it would be a wax seal.
End of controversial section.
<http://www.whitelightningco.com/products/lubricants/clean-ride>
The White Lightning "Clean Ride" is advertised as a "Legendary
Self-Cleaning Lubricant". I guess that there is some oil mixed in the
product. Instead of water, the missing 20-40% might be some type of
lube oil, such as mineral oil. For comparison, the WD-40 brand of
chain lube contains:
<https://files.wd40.com/pdf/sds/bike/wd-40-bike-all-conditions-chain-lube-us-ghs-ca.pdf>
Heptane 70-80%
Propane Propellant 10-20%
Petroleum Solvent 5-10%
Mineral Oil 1- 5%
Catrike Rider
Jul 11, 2023, 3:31:58 PM7/11/23
to
On Tue, 11 Jul 2023 11:57:57 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>
At any rate, it seems to do the job. The chain is not exactly clean,
but it's cleaner than with wet lube.
but it's cleaner than with wet lube.
Catrike Rider
Jul 11, 2023, 3:44:36 PM7/11/23
to
On Tue, 11 Jul 2023 15:31:55 -0400, Catrike Rider
I used White Lightning years ago, and then I switched over to wet
lube.. Now, looking at the history of my bike chains, I see neither
one works better than the other. The white lightning is less hassle.
lube.. Now, looking at the history of my bike chains, I see neither
one works better than the other. The white lightning is less hassle.
Tom Kunich
Jul 11, 2023, 4:12:44 PM7/11/23
to
Catrike Rider
Jul 11, 2023, 4:55:49 PM7/11/23
to
On Tue, 11 Jul 2023 13:12:42 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
That's just too much hassle with 13 feet of chain that I have to
unkink and thread through two idlers and a plastic chain tube, besides
the two derailleurs. I just recently switched back to White Lighting
Clean. I'm going to keep on using it.
<cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
unkink and thread through two idlers and a plastic chain tube, besides
the two derailleurs. I just recently switched back to White Lighting
Clean. I'm going to keep on using it.
Tom Kunich
Jul 11, 2023, 7:25:55 PM7/11/23
to
John B.
Jul 11, 2023, 7:51:12 PM7/11/23
to
On Tue, 11 Jul 2023 15:44:33 -0400, Catrike Rider
Well :-) look at any "proper" chain installation - carefully aligned
sprockets, proper lubrication - and you'll see that chain life can be
measured in years, but a bicycle chain, run not only unaligned but
deliberately misaligned, running in open air close to the ground, and
chain life is much shorter and even chain life on multi speed bike is
shorter then chain life in singe speed bikes.
So no matter the actual life of a multi speed bike chain it is "pretty
good".
--
Cheers,
John B.
sprockets, proper lubrication - and you'll see that chain life can be
measured in years, but a bicycle chain, run not only unaligned but
deliberately misaligned, running in open air close to the ground, and
chain life is much shorter and even chain life on multi speed bike is
shorter then chain life in singe speed bikes.
So no matter the actual life of a multi speed bike chain it is "pretty
good".
--
Cheers,
John B.
Catrike Rider
Jul 11, 2023, 8:07:32 PM7/11/23
to
On Wed, 12 Jul 2023 06:51:06 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>
I guess it all depends on how many miles one rides in a year. My
current chain is approaching one year old, and giving how much and how
far I've been riding lately, it'll probably last at least another
year. Like I said, I've been getting five or six thousand miles on
chains.
current chain is approaching one year old, and giving how much and how
far I've been riding lately, it'll probably last at least another
year. Like I said, I've been getting five or six thousand miles on
chains.
Frank Krygowski
Jul 11, 2023, 11:00:19 PM7/11/23
to
On 7/11/2023 7:25 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>
> Very few people go through the complicated process of wax chains properly like I do. I don't think that it is any better than good liquid lubes, it's just cleaner.
Wax lubes - at least good ones - are better, and have been shown to be
>
> Very few people go through the complicated process of wax chains properly like I do. I don't think that it is any better than good liquid lubes, it's just cleaner.
better by tests going back to at least 1977. I've posted this data
before, but it was obtained by a rider who diligently recorded his
riding miles then precisely measuring chain elongation with a
micrometer. He did it while testing many types of lubes.
https://flic.kr/p/dkULS1
Yes, it was before the current glory days of dozens of types of
lubricants decanted from 55 gallon drums into expensive little bottles,
but I think the fundamental fact is still true: Wax works best.
Look up Friction Facts. They found the same thing, vs. modern lubes.
That data and the supporting articles have been posted here.
--
- Frank Krygowski
John B.
Jul 12, 2023, 4:25:25 AM7/12/23
to
On Tue, 11 Jul 2023 20:07:29 -0400, Catrike Rider
To be frank, I've never kept track of chain life. after all, they are
a rather cheap (in cost) item - 9 speed chain? About $20... That's
what? Three Big Mac's, with fry's, and a coke?
(And the diet is fattening :-)
--
Cheers,
John B.
a rather cheap (in cost) item - 9 speed chain? About $20... That's
what? Three Big Mac's, with fry's, and a coke?
(And the diet is fattening :-)
--
Cheers,
John B.
Catrike Rider
Jul 12, 2023, 5:01:51 AM7/12/23
to
On Tue, 11 Jul 2023 23:00:11 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>On 7/11/2023 7:25 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>
>> Very few people go through the complicated process of wax chains properly like I do. I don't think that it is any better than good liquid lubes, it's just cleaner.
>
>Wax lubes - at least good ones - are better, and have been shown to be
>better by tests going back to at least 1977. I've posted this data
>before, but it was obtained by a rider who diligently recorded his
>riding miles then precisely measuring chain elongation with a
>micrometer. He did it while testing many types of lubes.
>
>https://flic.kr/p/dkULS1
Too many significant factors not accounted for...
<frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>On 7/11/2023 7:25 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>
>> Very few people go through the complicated process of wax chains properly like I do. I don't think that it is any better than good liquid lubes, it's just cleaner.
>
>Wax lubes - at least good ones - are better, and have been shown to be
>better by tests going back to at least 1977. I've posted this data
>before, but it was obtained by a rider who diligently recorded his
>riding miles then precisely measuring chain elongation with a
>micrometer. He did it while testing many types of lubes.
>
>https://flic.kr/p/dkULS1
Lou Holtman
Jul 12, 2023, 5:40:40 AM7/12/23
to
Lou
Catrike Rider
Jul 12, 2023, 6:55:00 AM7/12/23
to
On Wed, 12 Jul 2023 15:25:17 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>
I'd need three of those, but indeed, not to expensive. I actually buy
it in bulk for a few bucks less than the cost of three standard size
chains, and two additional master links.
Yes, I can certainly live without knowing the mileage on my bicycle's
various parts, and I have for many years. On the other hand, there's
no harm in having my computer inform me when I should start being more
diligent in checking the parts for wear.
it in bulk for a few bucks less than the cost of three standard size
chains, and two additional master links.
Yes, I can certainly live without knowing the mileage on my bicycle's
various parts, and I have for many years. On the other hand, there's
no harm in having my computer inform me when I should start being more
diligent in checking the parts for wear.
Frank Krygowski
Jul 12, 2023, 1:09:30 PM7/12/23
to
On 7/12/2023 5:40 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:
> Dirt on the outside stays on the outside and as a bonus it can be wiped off very easy. That is the big advantage of wax based lubes. Wax is not better in reducing the friction than clean oil on a clean chain. Colleague of mine, a chemist and cyclist, started experimenting with wax based lube long before it became popular. His first tries were terrible: after a half hour in wet conditions the chain started squeaking, but he managed to get is right eventually.
I first read of wax lubrication just before our first overseas bike trip
> Dirt on the outside stays on the outside and as a bonus it can be wiped off very easy. That is the big advantage of wax based lubes. Wax is not better in reducing the friction than clean oil on a clean chain. Colleague of mine, a chemist and cyclist, started experimenting with wax based lube long before it became popular. His first tries were terrible: after a half hour in wet conditions the chain started squeaking, but he managed to get is right eventually.
in 1976. The touted benefit was cleanliness, and I thought it would be
valuable since we expected to be taking bikes onto and off of trains,
into B&Bs, etc.
The pure paraffin wax did squeak after it rained. I finished the 3 week
trip using spare application of motor oil I'd brought in a tiny
eyedropper bottle.
But years later I heard of blending a small amount of oil into the wax.
It works perfectly for me. I think I blended in gear lube, not motor
oil, but I'm not sure. I'm still working my way though a large batch
I've blended.
It does all I ask, and the on-the-bike method using a low flame torch is
quick and easy.
--
- Frank Krygowski
Tom Kunich
Jul 12, 2023, 1:29:19 PM7/12/23
to
Frank, you are supposed to be a mechanical engineer and hence you are supposed to see the large errors in your thinking.
How often was the lubrication renewed? There is absolutely no way that you could maintain wax for an estimated (your calculation) 28,500 miles. Plus, renewing wax is such a pain in the ass that no one does it while dripping a modern slippery and penetrating oil onto the chain takes seconds. I really do have to wonder what goes on inside of your head.
Tom Kunich
Jul 12, 2023, 1:38:58 PM7/12/23
to
Tom Kunich
Jul 12, 2023, 1:56:44 PM7/12/23
to
Frank Krygowski
Jul 12, 2023, 1:58:58 PM7/12/23
to
stove. I just poured a bit into the molten wax. Maybe 10%?
--
- Frank Krygowski
Tom Kunich
Jul 12, 2023, 2:33:51 PM7/12/23
to
Catrike Rider
Jul 12, 2023, 2:48:07 PM7/12/23
to
On Wed, 12 Jul 2023 02:40:38 -0700 (PDT), Lou Holtman
<lou.h...@gmail.com> wrote:
37000 miles on my Catrike with my and ears much closer to the chain
and rear derailleurs than on a diamond frame bike, and I've never
heard a chain squeaking. All that and over the years, I've used all
sorts of different commercially available chain lube.
<lou.h...@gmail.com> wrote:
and rear derailleurs than on a diamond frame bike, and I've never
heard a chain squeaking. All that and over the years, I've used all
sorts of different commercially available chain lube.
John B.
Jul 12, 2023, 8:53:47 PM7/12/23
to
On Wed, 12 Jul 2023 10:29:17 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
Well Tommy, I'm proud to be in your kill file... After all you kill
file those that tell the truth about your lies and fantasies.
So, you have awarded me the Tommy Acclaim Certificate for being an
honest man.
--
Cheers,
John B.
<cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
file those that tell the truth about your lies and fantasies.
So, you have awarded me the Tommy Acclaim Certificate for being an
honest man.
--
Cheers,
John B.
John B.
Jul 12, 2023, 9:34:27 PM7/12/23
to
On Wed, 12 Jul 2023 06:54:57 -0400, Catrike Rider
I, riding a bicycle, cleaned and lubed, and checked the length, from
time to time and thus never bothered worrying abut time or distance
ridden.
It might be different if I had a half a mile of chain to mess with :-)
--
Cheers,
John B.
time to time and thus never bothered worrying abut time or distance
ridden.
It might be different if I had a half a mile of chain to mess with :-)
--
Cheers,
John B.
Frank Krygowski
Jul 12, 2023, 10:36:46 PM7/12/23
to
On 7/12/2023 9:34 PM, John B. wrote:
>
> I, riding a bicycle, cleaned and lubed, and checked the length, from
> time to time and thus never bothered worrying abut time or distance
> ridden.
>
> It might be different if I had a half a mile of chain to mess with :-)
Other things being equal, a longer chain obviously wears more slowly.
>
> I, riding a bicycle, cleaned and lubed, and checked the length, from
> time to time and thus never bothered worrying abut time or distance
> ridden.
>
> It might be different if I had a half a mile of chain to mess with :-)
--
- Frank Krygowski
Roger Meriman
Jul 13, 2023, 4:54:59 AM7/13/23
to
for the various bike parts across the bikes I have.
It’s absolute use is probably limited but I like it.
Roger Merriman
Catrike Rider
Jul 13, 2023, 6:19:41 AM7/13/23
to
On Thu, 13 Jul 2023 08:54:55 GMT, Roger Meriman <ro...@sarlet.com>
wrote:
I initially began the Excel database project as a way to monitor my
performance, and it gradually morphed into parts management. I started
keeping a bicycle log back in 2014, as I had previously done on my
boat. The database project was a great improvement, and I've enjoyed
the challenge of building it.
wrote:
performance, and it gradually morphed into parts management. I started
keeping a bicycle log back in 2014, as I had previously done on my
boat. The database project was a great improvement, and I've enjoyed
the challenge of building it.
funkma...@hotmail.com
Jul 13, 2023, 8:59:44 AM7/13/23
to
https://moltenspeedwax.com/pages/velo-lube-test-2
Generally the paraffin/teflon/molybdenum disulfide formulation as first developed by Friction Facts founder Jason Smith was found to be the "fastest" formulation. Molten Speed Wax bases their formula on Smiths.
Smith developed the formula, then published the findings as well as his formula
https://www.bikeradar.com/news/friction-facts-publishes-ultrafast-chain-lube-formula/
Interestingly, your concoction seems to have performed exceptionally well also. There is a commercial version call Squirt that came in a close second to Molten Speed Wax. Reviewers from Velo and Bike Rumor like it best because it performs ostensibly as well, it stays clean, and it's easier that the waxing process, although it needs frequent reapplication (read the velo article linked above).
Jeff Liebermann
Jul 13, 2023, 1:54:54 PM7/13/23
to
On Wed, 12 Jul 2023 15:25:17 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>
wrote:
>To be frank,
You want to be like Frank? Are you sure?
>I've never kept track of chain life. after all, they are
>a rather cheap (in cost) item - 9 speed chain? About $20... That's
>what? Three Big Mac's, with fry's, and a coke?
>(And the diet is fattening :-)
More like 2 Big Mac Combo Meals:
Big Macs in California are $5.11.
<https://www.zippia.com/advice/how-much-big-mac-costs-states/>
The Combo Meal with fries and a drink, about $10.
--
Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
wrote:
>To be frank,
You want to be like Frank? Are you sure?
>I've never kept track of chain life. after all, they are
>a rather cheap (in cost) item - 9 speed chain? About $20... That's
>what? Three Big Mac's, with fry's, and a coke?
>(And the diet is fattening :-)
Big Macs in California are $5.11.
<https://www.zippia.com/advice/how-much-big-mac-costs-states/>
The Combo Meal with fries and a drink, about $10.
--
Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
Jeff Liebermann
Jul 13, 2023, 2:09:18 PM7/13/23
to
longer chains, that's not what causes wear to the pin.
<https://cdn-0.sheldonbrown.com/images/chain_wornpin.gif>
The wear is caused by rotating the link around the freewheel gear and
chainwheel. The points on the gears where pin wear occurs is quite
small, being only where the chain line CHANGES from straight to curved
(around the gear). Since the tension on both axles axles is the same
for any length of chain, the wear should also be the same for any
length of chain.
All the above assumes that the cog and chainwheel is the same for all
comparisons. No change in gears or gear ratios.
Catrike Rider
Jul 13, 2023, 2:20:36 PM7/13/23
to
On Thu, 13 Jul 2023 11:09:05 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>
wrote:
>On Wed, 12 Jul 2023 22:36:42 -0400, Frank Krygowski
><frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>>On 7/12/2023 9:34 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>
>>> I, riding a bicycle, cleaned and lubed, and checked the length, from
>>> time to time and thus never bothered worrying abut time or distance
>>> ridden.
>>>
>>> It might be different if I had a half a mile of chain to mess with :-)
>
>>Other things being equal, a longer chain obviously wears more slowly.
>
>I beg to differ. While the chain tension per chain link decreases in
>longer chains, that's not what causes wear to the pin.
><https://cdn-0.sheldonbrown.com/images/chain_wornpin.gif>
>The wear is caused by rotating the link around the freewheel gear and
>chainwheel.
But you see, Jeff, the chain links on my 13 foot chain rotates around
the sprockets less often for the same distance traveled as a regular
length chain.
wrote:
>On Wed, 12 Jul 2023 22:36:42 -0400, Frank Krygowski
><frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>>On 7/12/2023 9:34 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>
>>> I, riding a bicycle, cleaned and lubed, and checked the length, from
>>> time to time and thus never bothered worrying abut time or distance
>>> ridden.
>>>
>>> It might be different if I had a half a mile of chain to mess with :-)
>
>>Other things being equal, a longer chain obviously wears more slowly.
>
>I beg to differ. While the chain tension per chain link decreases in
>longer chains, that's not what causes wear to the pin.
><https://cdn-0.sheldonbrown.com/images/chain_wornpin.gif>
>The wear is caused by rotating the link around the freewheel gear and
>chainwheel.
the sprockets less often for the same distance traveled as a regular
length chain.
sms
Jul 13, 2023, 2:23:42 PM7/13/23
to
On 7/5/2023 1:57 AM, Roger Meriman wrote:
<snip>
> It’s more Wax isn’t generally thought of as particularly good for wet
> weather riding. Also I am back in wales a lot which is many times wetter
> getting more so the further west you go.
As long as there's a hefty percentage of some sort of lubricant, like
gear oil, SAE 30 oil, or chain lube, having some wax in there should not
cause a lot of problems though it doesn't do anything useful either. The
stated advantage of wax was that it is cleaner than using oil but once
you mix in oil that advantage goes away.
What the Experts say About Chain Waxing:
"When wax was popular, we'd get customers coming in all the time
complaining about shifting problems on their bikes. Removed the wax and
lubed with conventional stuff and voila, shifting back to normal." Mike
Jacoubowsky, co-owner of Chain Reaction Bicycles.
"Wax is not mobile and cannot return to a location from which it has
been removed by rotation of one part on another." Jobst Brandt, author
of The Bicycle Wheel
"If you use dry lube or wax, follow product directions and use it often.
In some cases, dry lube should be used for every ride. It wears off very
quickly and no new lube can flow to the critical wear areas." Craig
Metalcraft, manufacturer of Super Link III.
"Downsides of the wax approach include the fact that it is a great deal
of trouble, and that wax is probably not as good a lubricant as oil or
grease." Sheldon Brown
<snip>
> It’s more Wax isn’t generally thought of as particularly good for wet
> weather riding. Also I am back in wales a lot which is many times wetter
> getting more so the further west you go.
As long as there's a hefty percentage of some sort of lubricant, like
gear oil, SAE 30 oil, or chain lube, having some wax in there should not
cause a lot of problems though it doesn't do anything useful either. The
stated advantage of wax was that it is cleaner than using oil but once
you mix in oil that advantage goes away.
What the Experts say About Chain Waxing:
"When wax was popular, we'd get customers coming in all the time
complaining about shifting problems on their bikes. Removed the wax and
lubed with conventional stuff and voila, shifting back to normal." Mike
Jacoubowsky, co-owner of Chain Reaction Bicycles.
"Wax is not mobile and cannot return to a location from which it has
been removed by rotation of one part on another." Jobst Brandt, author
of The Bicycle Wheel
"If you use dry lube or wax, follow product directions and use it often.
In some cases, dry lube should be used for every ride. It wears off very
quickly and no new lube can flow to the critical wear areas." Craig
Metalcraft, manufacturer of Super Link III.
"Downsides of the wax approach include the fact that it is a great deal
of trouble, and that wax is probably not as good a lubricant as oil or
grease." Sheldon Brown
Jeff Liebermann
Jul 13, 2023, 2:26:25 PM7/13/23
to
On Thu, 13 Jul 2023 14:20:32 -0400, Catrike Rider
<sol...@drafting.not> wrote:
>On Thu, 13 Jul 2023 11:09:05 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>
>wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 12 Jul 2023 22:36:42 -0400, Frank Krygowski
>><frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>
>>>On 7/12/2023 9:34 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I, riding a bicycle, cleaned and lubed, and checked the length, from
>>>> time to time and thus never bothered worrying abut time or distance
>>>> ridden.
>>>>
>>>> It might be different if I had a half a mile of chain to mess with :-)
>>
>>>Other things being equal, a longer chain obviously wears more slowly.
>>
>>I beg to differ. While the chain tension per chain link decreases in
>>longer chains, that's not what causes wear to the pin.
>><https://cdn-0.sheldonbrown.com/images/chain_wornpin.gif>
>>The wear is caused by rotating the link around the freewheel gear and
>>chainwheel.
>
>But you see, Jeff, the chain links on my 13 foot chain rotates around
>the sprockets less often for the same distance traveled as a regular
>length chain.
Oops. You're correct. I didn't think about that. Thanks.
<sol...@drafting.not> wrote:
>On Thu, 13 Jul 2023 11:09:05 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>
>wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 12 Jul 2023 22:36:42 -0400, Frank Krygowski
>><frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>
>>>On 7/12/2023 9:34 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I, riding a bicycle, cleaned and lubed, and checked the length, from
>>>> time to time and thus never bothered worrying abut time or distance
>>>> ridden.
>>>>
>>>> It might be different if I had a half a mile of chain to mess with :-)
>>
>>>Other things being equal, a longer chain obviously wears more slowly.
>>
>>I beg to differ. While the chain tension per chain link decreases in
>>longer chains, that's not what causes wear to the pin.
>><https://cdn-0.sheldonbrown.com/images/chain_wornpin.gif>
>>The wear is caused by rotating the link around the freewheel gear and
>>chainwheel.
>
>But you see, Jeff, the chain links on my 13 foot chain rotates around
>the sprockets less often for the same distance traveled as a regular
>length chain.
(I just hate it when that happens).
> The points on the gears where pin wear occurs is quite
>>small, being only where the chain line CHANGES from straight to curved
>>(around the gear). Since the tension on both axles axles is the same
>>for any length of chain, the wear should also be the same for any
>>length of chain.
>>
>>All the above assumes that the cog and chainwheel is the same for all
>>comparisons. No change in gears or gear ratios.
Catrike Rider
Jul 13, 2023, 2:29:25 PM7/13/23
to
On Thu, 13 Jul 2023 11:26:11 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>
wrote:
>On Thu, 13 Jul 2023 14:20:32 -0400, Catrike Rider
><sol...@drafting.not> wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 13 Jul 2023 11:09:05 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On Wed, 12 Jul 2023 22:36:42 -0400, Frank Krygowski
>>><frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On 7/12/2023 9:34 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I, riding a bicycle, cleaned and lubed, and checked the length, from
>>>>> time to time and thus never bothered worrying abut time or distance
>>>>> ridden.
>>>>>
>>>>> It might be different if I had a half a mile of chain to mess with :-)
>>>
>>>>Other things being equal, a longer chain obviously wears more slowly.
>>>
>>>I beg to differ. While the chain tension per chain link decreases in
>>>longer chains, that's not what causes wear to the pin.
>>><https://cdn-0.sheldonbrown.com/images/chain_wornpin.gif>
>>>The wear is caused by rotating the link around the freewheel gear and
>>>chainwheel.
>>
>>But you see, Jeff, the chain links on my 13 foot chain rotates around
>>the sprockets less often for the same distance traveled as a regular
>>length chain.
>
>Oops. You're correct. I didn't think about that. Thanks.
>(I just hate it when that happens).
De nada... you've corrected me several times....
>On Thu, 13 Jul 2023 14:20:32 -0400, Catrike Rider
><sol...@drafting.not> wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 13 Jul 2023 11:09:05 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On Wed, 12 Jul 2023 22:36:42 -0400, Frank Krygowski
>>><frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On 7/12/2023 9:34 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I, riding a bicycle, cleaned and lubed, and checked the length, from
>>>>> time to time and thus never bothered worrying abut time or distance
>>>>> ridden.
>>>>>
>>>>> It might be different if I had a half a mile of chain to mess with :-)
>>>
>>>>Other things being equal, a longer chain obviously wears more slowly.
>>>
>>>I beg to differ. While the chain tension per chain link decreases in
>>>longer chains, that's not what causes wear to the pin.
>>><https://cdn-0.sheldonbrown.com/images/chain_wornpin.gif>
>>>The wear is caused by rotating the link around the freewheel gear and
>>>chainwheel.
>>
>>But you see, Jeff, the chain links on my 13 foot chain rotates around
>>the sprockets less often for the same distance traveled as a regular
>>length chain.
>
>Oops. You're correct. I didn't think about that. Thanks.
>(I just hate it when that happens).
AMuzi
Jul 13, 2023, 3:09:09 PM7/13/23
to
On 7/13/2023 1:09 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Wed, 12 Jul 2023 22:36:42 -0400, Frank Krygowski
> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>> On 7/12/2023 9:34 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>
>>> I, riding a bicycle, cleaned and lubed, and checked the length, from
>>> time to time and thus never bothered worrying abut time or distance
>>> ridden.
>>>
>>> It might be different if I had a half a mile of chain to mess with :-)
>
>> Other things being equal, a longer chain obviously wears more slowly.
>
> I beg to differ. While the chain tension per chain link decreases in
> longer chains, that's not what causes wear to the pin.
> <https://cdn-0.sheldonbrown.com/images/chain_wornpin.gif>
> The wear is caused by rotating the link around the freewheel gear and
> chainwheel. The points on the gears where pin wear occurs is quite
> small, being only where the chain line CHANGES from straight to curved
> (around the gear). Since the tension on both axles axles is the same
> for any length of chain, the wear should also be the same for any
> length of chain.
>
> All the above assumes that the cog and chainwheel is the same for all
> comparisons. No change in gears or gear ratios.
>
I had to think abut that for a minute yesterday. Mr Tricycle
> On Wed, 12 Jul 2023 22:36:42 -0400, Frank Krygowski
> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>> On 7/12/2023 9:34 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>
>>> I, riding a bicycle, cleaned and lubed, and checked the length, from
>>> time to time and thus never bothered worrying abut time or distance
>>> ridden.
>>>
>>> It might be different if I had a half a mile of chain to mess with :-)
>
>> Other things being equal, a longer chain obviously wears more slowly.
>
> I beg to differ. While the chain tension per chain link decreases in
> longer chains, that's not what causes wear to the pin.
> <https://cdn-0.sheldonbrown.com/images/chain_wornpin.gif>
> The wear is caused by rotating the link around the freewheel gear and
> chainwheel. The points on the gears where pin wear occurs is quite
> small, being only where the chain line CHANGES from straight to curved
> (around the gear). Since the tension on both axles axles is the same
> for any length of chain, the wear should also be the same for any
> length of chain.
>
> All the above assumes that the cog and chainwheel is the same for all
> comparisons. No change in gears or gear ratios.
>
is right
The wear increment per chain rotation is, as you note, the
same. But each link completes the cycle fewer times with a
longer chain, AEBE.
--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
Frank Krygowski
Jul 13, 2023, 5:02:57 PM7/13/23
to
On 7/13/2023 2:26 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Thu, 13 Jul 2023 14:20:32 -0400, Catrike Rider
> <sol...@drafting.not> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 13 Jul 2023 11:09:05 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, 12 Jul 2023 22:36:42 -0400, Frank Krygowski
>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 7/12/2023 9:34 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I, riding a bicycle, cleaned and lubed, and checked the length, from
>>>>> time to time and thus never bothered worrying abut time or distance
>>>>> ridden.
>>>>>
>>>>> It might be different if I had a half a mile of chain to mess with :-)
>>>
>>>> Other things being equal, a longer chain obviously wears more slowly.
>>>
>>> I beg to differ. While the chain tension per chain link decreases in
>>> longer chains, that's not what causes wear to the pin.
>>> <https://cdn-0.sheldonbrown.com/images/chain_wornpin.gif>
>>> The wear is caused by rotating the link around the freewheel gear and
>>> chainwheel.
>>
>> But you see, Jeff, the chain links on my 13 foot chain rotates around
>> the sprockets less often for the same distance traveled as a regular
>> length chain.
>
> Oops. You're correct. I didn't think about that. Thanks.
> (I just hate it when that happens).
Yep. I thought it was obvious. But "obvious" varies.
> On Thu, 13 Jul 2023 14:20:32 -0400, Catrike Rider
> <sol...@drafting.not> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 13 Jul 2023 11:09:05 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, 12 Jul 2023 22:36:42 -0400, Frank Krygowski
>>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 7/12/2023 9:34 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I, riding a bicycle, cleaned and lubed, and checked the length, from
>>>>> time to time and thus never bothered worrying abut time or distance
>>>>> ridden.
>>>>>
>>>>> It might be different if I had a half a mile of chain to mess with :-)
>>>
>>>> Other things being equal, a longer chain obviously wears more slowly.
>>>
>>> I beg to differ. While the chain tension per chain link decreases in
>>> longer chains, that's not what causes wear to the pin.
>>> <https://cdn-0.sheldonbrown.com/images/chain_wornpin.gif>
>>> The wear is caused by rotating the link around the freewheel gear and
>>> chainwheel.
>>
>> But you see, Jeff, the chain links on my 13 foot chain rotates around
>> the sprockets less often for the same distance traveled as a regular
>> length chain.
>
> Oops. You're correct. I didn't think about that. Thanks.
> (I just hate it when that happens).
--
- Frank Krygowski
Frank Krygowski
Jul 13, 2023, 5:09:30 PM7/13/23
to
by "argument from [ancient] authority" even if it means ignoring
carefully gathered data, and ignoring current best practices done under
the consultation of more modern authorities.
Stephen M. Scharf (AKA "sms") spent decades mocking my arguments on the
benefits of bike dynamos. He's finally given that up, and admitted that
his family bikes now have dynamos. To bolster his sagging self image, he
still pops in from time to time to pretend wax chain lube doesn't work.
That's despite the growing number of people here who use it with
success. Not to mention high level competitors, etc.
--
- Frank Krygowski
Roger Meriman
Jul 13, 2023, 5:52:28 PM7/13/23
to
particularly the commute bike which I’m not going to clean every ride.
And I’m generally impressed by it, but as is the case note that waxing is
much more of road than MTB use.
Ie it doesn’t cope well in wet conditions, gets washed away.
As far as I can tell that’s one of the reasons doesn’t seem to be a thing
for MTBer as wet lubes in winter at least are better bet as will remain
working and not wash off during the ride.
Roger Merriman
Message has been deleted
Tom Kunich
Jul 13, 2023, 6:46:27 PM7/13/23
to
John B.
Jul 13, 2023, 7:01:57 PM7/13/23
to
On Thu, 13 Jul 2023 10:54:39 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>
wrote:
>On Wed, 12 Jul 2023 15:25:17 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>
>wrote:
>>To be frank,
>
>You want to be like Frank? Are you sure?
>
>>I've never kept track of chain life. after all, they are
>>a rather cheap (in cost) item - 9 speed chain? About $20... That's
>>what? Three Big Mac's, with fry's, and a coke?
>>(And the diet is fattening :-)
>
>More like 2 Big Mac Combo Meals:
>
>Big Macs in California are $5.11.
><https://www.zippia.com/advice/how-much-big-mac-costs-states/>
>The Combo Meal with fries and a drink, about $10.
Well :-) I can only plead that I've been gone a long time and live in
a cheap country. A Big Mac Meal, here, is $6.10 :-)
--
Cheers,
John B.
wrote:
>On Wed, 12 Jul 2023 15:25:17 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>
>wrote:
>>To be frank,
>
>You want to be like Frank? Are you sure?
>
>>I've never kept track of chain life. after all, they are
>>a rather cheap (in cost) item - 9 speed chain? About $20... That's
>>what? Three Big Mac's, with fry's, and a coke?
>>(And the diet is fattening :-)
>
>More like 2 Big Mac Combo Meals:
>
>Big Macs in California are $5.11.
><https://www.zippia.com/advice/how-much-big-mac-costs-states/>
>The Combo Meal with fries and a drink, about $10.
a cheap country. A Big Mac Meal, here, is $6.10 :-)
--
Cheers,
John B.
John B.
Jul 13, 2023, 8:43:01 PM7/13/23
to
On Thu, 13 Jul 2023 11:09:05 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>
wrote:
>On Wed, 12 Jul 2023 22:36:42 -0400, Frank Krygowski
><frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>>On 7/12/2023 9:34 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>
>>> I, riding a bicycle, cleaned and lubed, and checked the length, from
>>> time to time and thus never bothered worrying abut time or distance
>>> ridden.
>>>
>>> It might be different if I had a half a mile of chain to mess with :-)
>
>>Other things being equal, a longer chain obviously wears more slowly.
>
>I beg to differ. While the chain tension per chain link decreases in
>longer chains, that's not what causes wear to the pin.
><https://cdn-0.sheldonbrown.com/images/chain_wornpin.gif>
>The wear is caused by rotating the link around the freewheel gear and
>chainwheel. The points on the gears where pin wear occurs is quite
>small, being only where the chain line CHANGES from straight to curved
>(around the gear). Since the tension on both axles axles is the same
>for any length of chain, the wear should also be the same for any
>length of chain.
>
>All the above assumes that the cog and chainwheel is the same for all
>comparisons. No change in gears or gear ratios.
I "think" that the pin wear on a bicycle chain may well be, at least
in part, due the chain being twisted sideways" which would cause a
higher load on one side of the pin then on the other side. If that is
the case then regardless of the length of chain wear will be largely
determined by the gear that one habitually rides in.
From memory (always a doubtful reference) back when every kid had a
one speed Schwin bike I don't remember anyone ever complaining about a
worn chain. And now, in the multi speed days, it is a common
complaint.
Do bikes with a multi speed geared rear hub wear the chain as quickly
as bikes with a derailour shift system?
--
Cheers,
John B.
wrote:
>On Wed, 12 Jul 2023 22:36:42 -0400, Frank Krygowski
><frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>>On 7/12/2023 9:34 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>
>>> I, riding a bicycle, cleaned and lubed, and checked the length, from
>>> time to time and thus never bothered worrying abut time or distance
>>> ridden.
>>>
>>> It might be different if I had a half a mile of chain to mess with :-)
>
>>Other things being equal, a longer chain obviously wears more slowly.
>
>I beg to differ. While the chain tension per chain link decreases in
>longer chains, that's not what causes wear to the pin.
><https://cdn-0.sheldonbrown.com/images/chain_wornpin.gif>
>The wear is caused by rotating the link around the freewheel gear and
>chainwheel. The points on the gears where pin wear occurs is quite
>small, being only where the chain line CHANGES from straight to curved
>(around the gear). Since the tension on both axles axles is the same
>for any length of chain, the wear should also be the same for any
>length of chain.
>
>All the above assumes that the cog and chainwheel is the same for all
>comparisons. No change in gears or gear ratios.
in part, due the chain being twisted sideways" which would cause a
higher load on one side of the pin then on the other side. If that is
the case then regardless of the length of chain wear will be largely
determined by the gear that one habitually rides in.
From memory (always a doubtful reference) back when every kid had a
one speed Schwin bike I don't remember anyone ever complaining about a
worn chain. And now, in the multi speed days, it is a common
complaint.
Do bikes with a multi speed geared rear hub wear the chain as quickly
as bikes with a derailour shift system?
--
Cheers,
John B.
AMuzi
Jul 13, 2023, 9:01:45 PM7/13/23
to
get press coverage!
https://nypost.com/2023/07/12/burger-king-thailand-shocks-fans-with-new-cheeseburger-revolting/
sms
Jul 13, 2023, 9:16:19 PM7/13/23
to
On 7/13/2023 4:01 PM, John B. wrote:
<snip>
> Well :-) I can only plead that I've been gone a long time and live in
> a cheap country. A Big Mac Meal, here, is $6.10 :-)
I don't think that I've eaten a Big Mac in 50+ years, back when I was 16
and had a job at McDonald's. I occasionally go to McDonald's for the Egg
McMuffin and for the Filet 'O Fish, but the latter has become
ridiculously expensive. Fast food in general has become ridiculously
priced in the U.S..
--
“If you are not an expert on a subject, then your opinions about it
really do matter less than the opinions of experts. It's not
indoctrination nor elitism. It's just that you don't know as much as
they do about the subject.”—Tin Foil Awards
<snip>
> Well :-) I can only plead that I've been gone a long time and live in
> a cheap country. A Big Mac Meal, here, is $6.10 :-)
and had a job at McDonald's. I occasionally go to McDonald's for the Egg
McMuffin and for the Filet 'O Fish, but the latter has become
ridiculously expensive. Fast food in general has become ridiculously
priced in the U.S..
--
“If you are not an expert on a subject, then your opinions about it
really do matter less than the opinions of experts. It's not
indoctrination nor elitism. It's just that you don't know as much as
they do about the subject.”—Tin Foil Awards
sms
Jul 13, 2023, 9:27:59 PM7/13/23
to
On 7/13/2023 2:52 PM, Roger Meriman wrote:
<snip>
> As far as I can tell that’s one of the reasons doesn’t seem to be a thing
> for MTBer as wet lubes in winter at least are better bet as will remain
> working and not wash off during the ride.
Like many riders, I did the paraffin thing for a short time and found
that it didn't work well and took a lot of time, as the people I quoted
in the previous post explained.
But back then I was not mixing in oil which appears to be the way to
mitigate the issues with wax. I did wax because it was clean.
I don't see the upside of wax once you realize that you really need to
mix it with oil. I believe what Mike J., Jobst, and Sheldon stated, but
I think that they were talking about wax without adding some sort of oil.
I've become old-school. I clean the chain with a hydrocarbon based
solvent (not water-based) and lubricate it with some sort of oil that
penetrates into the links. IMVAIO there is no upside to spending a lot
of money or time on fancy solvents and lubricants sold in tiny bottles,
or melting paraffin and mixing it with some kind of oil.
<snip>
> As far as I can tell that’s one of the reasons doesn’t seem to be a thing
> for MTBer as wet lubes in winter at least are better bet as will remain
> working and not wash off during the ride.
that it didn't work well and took a lot of time, as the people I quoted
in the previous post explained.
But back then I was not mixing in oil which appears to be the way to
mitigate the issues with wax. I did wax because it was clean.
I don't see the upside of wax once you realize that you really need to
mix it with oil. I believe what Mike J., Jobst, and Sheldon stated, but
I think that they were talking about wax without adding some sort of oil.
I've become old-school. I clean the chain with a hydrocarbon based
solvent (not water-based) and lubricate it with some sort of oil that
penetrates into the links. IMVAIO there is no upside to spending a lot
of money or time on fancy solvents and lubricants sold in tiny bottles,
or melting paraffin and mixing it with some kind of oil.
AMuzi
Jul 13, 2023, 9:52:49 PM7/13/23
to
It's unrelated to side twisting (which is negligible).
In our youth, chains were all full roller chain, which wears
at a lower rate than modern chain. After 1978 with the
innovative Sedisport, chains moved to an interrupted
sideplate with no roller. They move sideways better which is
great for derailleur systems but wear faster which is a
strong advantage to manufacturers along with lower cost.
https://www.velo-pages.com/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=6237&g2_serialNumber=2
Mr Brandt noted that the separation between the two
sideplates around the rivet introduces grit and increases wear.
As chains became significantly narrower, the wearing surface
area diminished and here we are at 2000 mi chains rather
than 6000 mi chain.
Frank Krygowski
Jul 13, 2023, 9:58:15 PM7/13/23
to
On 7/13/2023 6:46 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> I have a difficult time believing that Pro's would use wax.
https://silca.cc/blogs/silca/chain-wax-podiums Apparently it works for
> I have a difficult time believing that Pro's would use wax.
some racers.
> My use of wax is ONLY because oil dirties up expensive cassettes that are difficult to clean since they are all on carriers rather than free cogs.
https://www.bikeradar.com/advice/workshop/how-to-wax-a-chain/
https://www.theproscloset.com/blogs/news/waxing-my-bike-chain-was-a-game-changer
--
- Frank Krygowski
Frank Krygowski
Jul 13, 2023, 10:05:07 PM7/13/23
to
On 7/13/2023 8:42 PM, John B. wrote:
>
> From memory (always a doubtful reference) back when every kid had a
> one speed Schwin bike I don't remember anyone ever complaining about a
> worn chain. And now, in the multi speed days, it is a common
> complaint.
>
> Do bikes with a multi speed geared rear hub wear the chain as quickly
> as bikes with a derailour shift system?
First, back in those days, I doubt many kids rode thousands of miles per
>
> From memory (always a doubtful reference) back when every kid had a
> one speed Schwin bike I don't remember anyone ever complaining about a
> worn chain. And now, in the multi speed days, it is a common
> complaint.
>
> Do bikes with a multi speed geared rear hub wear the chain as quickly
> as bikes with a derailour shift system?
year. I had a large paper route and rode about five miles almost every
day while delivering, plus other minor riding to get around. I'm sure I
was an outlier.
Second, I think single speeds or hub gears need much more extreme wear
before problems are evident. Skipping on power application is much less
likely because there isn't sufficient slack in the system. Front and
rear sprockets are at fixed distances and there's no sprung idler as
with a derailleur. That allows the chain to climb over a worn tooth.
I think the effects of out-of-alignment cogs (for different gears) are
not as important as the above factors.
--
- Frank Krygowski
John B.
Jul 14, 2023, 1:23:39 AM7/14/23
to
not commonly a part of the Thai diet.
--
Cheers,
John B.
Catrike Rider
Jul 14, 2023, 3:28:28 AM7/14/23
to
On Thu, 13 Jul 2023 18:16:14 -0700, sms <scharf...@geemail.com>
wrote:
>On 7/13/2023 4:01 PM, John B. wrote:
>
><snip>
>
>> Well :-) I can only plead that I've been gone a long time and live in
>> a cheap country. A Big Mac Meal, here, is $6.10 :-)
>
>I don't think that I've eaten a Big Mac in 50+ years, back when I was 16
>and had a job at McDonald's. I occasionally go to McDonald's for the Egg
>McMuffin and for the Filet 'O Fish, but the latter has become
>ridiculously expensive. Fast food in general has become ridiculously
>priced in the U.S..
One can get fairly good coffee at McDonald's and their restrooms are
generally pretty clean, but I wouldn't eat any of their crap.
wrote:
>On 7/13/2023 4:01 PM, John B. wrote:
>
><snip>
>
>> Well :-) I can only plead that I've been gone a long time and live in
>> a cheap country. A Big Mac Meal, here, is $6.10 :-)
>
>I don't think that I've eaten a Big Mac in 50+ years, back when I was 16
>and had a job at McDonald's. I occasionally go to McDonald's for the Egg
>McMuffin and for the Filet 'O Fish, but the latter has become
>ridiculously expensive. Fast food in general has become ridiculously
>priced in the U.S..
generally pretty clean, but I wouldn't eat any of their crap.
Roger Meriman
Jul 14, 2023, 3:41:11 AM7/14/23
to
sms <scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:
> On 7/13/2023 2:52 PM, Roger Meriman wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>> As far as I can tell that’s one of the reasons doesn’t seem to be a thing
>> for MTBer as wet lubes in winter at least are better bet as will remain
>> working and not wash off during the ride.
>
> Like many riders, I did the paraffin thing for a short time and found
> that it didn't work well and took a lot of time, as the people I quoted
> in the previous post explained.
>
> But back then I was not mixing in oil which appears to be the way to
> mitigate the issues with wax. I did wax because it was clean.
>
> I don't see the upside of wax once you realize that you really need to
> mix it with oil. I believe what Mike J., Jobst, and Sheldon stated, but
> I think that they were talking about wax without adding some sort of oil.
>
> I've become old-school. I clean the chain with a hydrocarbon based
> solvent (not water-based) and lubricate it with some sort of oil that
> penetrates into the links. IMVAIO there is no upside to spending a lot
> of money or time on fancy solvents and lubricants sold in tiny bottles,
> or melting paraffin and mixing it with some kind of oil.
>
The advantage is less cleaning, and maintenance particularly the commute
> On 7/13/2023 2:52 PM, Roger Meriman wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>> As far as I can tell that’s one of the reasons doesn’t seem to be a thing
>> for MTBer as wet lubes in winter at least are better bet as will remain
>> working and not wash off during the ride.
>
> Like many riders, I did the paraffin thing for a short time and found
> that it didn't work well and took a lot of time, as the people I quoted
> in the previous post explained.
>
> But back then I was not mixing in oil which appears to be the way to
> mitigate the issues with wax. I did wax because it was clean.
>
> I don't see the upside of wax once you realize that you really need to
> mix it with oil. I believe what Mike J., Jobst, and Sheldon stated, but
> I think that they were talking about wax without adding some sort of oil.
>
> I've become old-school. I clean the chain with a hydrocarbon based
> solvent (not water-based) and lubricate it with some sort of oil that
> penetrates into the links. IMVAIO there is no upside to spending a lot
> of money or time on fancy solvents and lubricants sold in tiny bottles,
> or melting paraffin and mixing it with some kind of oil.
>
bike and to a extent the Gravel bike, even in winter it lasts long enough
and for the commute doesn’t need cleaning though reapplying. The Gravel
will generally require washing and reapplying, the MTB in winter is beyond
it as the conditions are just too wet!
Roger Merriman
John B.
Jul 14, 2023, 4:19:56 AM7/14/23
to
pizza once in a while :-)
--
Cheers,
John B.
AMuzi
Jul 14, 2023, 9:49:20 AM7/14/23
to
I didn't mention culinary arts as this is marketing.
sms
Jul 14, 2023, 4:52:11 PM7/14/23
to
On 7/14/2023 12:41 AM, Roger Meriman wrote:
<snip>
<snip>
> The advantage is less cleaning, and maintenance particularly the commute
> bike and to a extent the Gravel bike, even in winter it lasts long enough
> and for the commute doesn’t need cleaning though reapplying. The Gravel
> will generally require washing and reapplying, the MTB in winter is beyond
> it as the conditions are just too wet!
I can clean the chain, on the bike, in five minutes or so (with multiple
> bike and to a extent the Gravel bike, even in winter it lasts long enough
> and for the commute doesn’t need cleaning though reapplying. The Gravel
> will generally require washing and reapplying, the MTB in winter is beyond
> it as the conditions are just too wet!
solvent changes in the chain cleaning contraption until it runs clean).
For lubrication I use a foaming chain lube for non-O ring chains. i.e.
<https://pj1.com/product/pj1-heavy-duty-black-label-chain-lube/>, which
takes only a minute to apply.
When I used to do wax, it took a lot longer, was more trouble, and the
results were not as good. But again, that was back when people did pure
wax, without oil mixed in.
Roger Meriman
Jul 14, 2023, 5:50:46 PM7/14/23
to
sms <scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:
> On 7/14/2023 12:41 AM, Roger Meriman wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>> The advantage is less cleaning, and maintenance particularly the commute
>> bike and to a extent the Gravel bike, even in winter it lasts long enough
>> and for the commute doesn’t need cleaning though reapplying. The Gravel
>> will generally require washing and reapplying, the MTB in winter is beyond
>> it as the conditions are just too wet!
>
> I can clean the chain, on the bike, in five minutes or so (with multiple
> solvent changes in the chain cleaning contraption until it runs clean).
>
In summer at least or rather dry weather with the Gravel bike I don’t need
> On 7/14/2023 12:41 AM, Roger Meriman wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>> The advantage is less cleaning, and maintenance particularly the commute
>> bike and to a extent the Gravel bike, even in winter it lasts long enough
>> and for the commute doesn’t need cleaning though reapplying. The Gravel
>> will generally require washing and reapplying, the MTB in winter is beyond
>> it as the conditions are just too wet!
>
> I can clean the chain, on the bike, in five minutes or so (with multiple
> solvent changes in the chain cleaning contraption until it runs clean).
>
to clean the bike as it’s just dusty, the commute bike is rarely cleaned.
> For lubrication I use a foaming chain lube for non-O ring chains. i.e.
> <https://pj1.com/product/pj1-heavy-duty-black-label-chain-lube/>, which
> takes only a minute to apply.
>
> When I used to do wax, it took a lot longer, was more trouble, and the
> results were not as good. But again, that was back when people did pure
> wax, without oil mixed in.
>
I find that wet or even dry lubes gum up fairly quickly which for winter
> <https://pj1.com/product/pj1-heavy-duty-black-label-chain-lube/>, which
> takes only a minute to apply.
>
> When I used to do wax, it took a lot longer, was more trouble, and the
> results were not as good. But again, that was back when people did pure
> wax, without oil mixed in.
>
wet lubes on the MTB is fine as I wash every ride anyway but for the gravel
even it’s making more work, and for the commute bike it would mean that I
need to clean it! Which I generally only do if it needs to see the bike
shop!
Roger Merriman
John B.
Jul 14, 2023, 9:04:19 PM7/14/23
to
was a very short term effort in advertising and, from what I read,
universally trashed by local pundits. One guy wrote, "I lasted two
bites before giving up".
--
Cheers,
John B.
Tom Kunich
Jul 14, 2023, 9:29:10 PM7/14/23
to
Jeff Liebermann
Jul 14, 2023, 10:43:16 PM7/14/23
to
On Sat, 15 Jul 2023 08:04:15 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>
wrote:
>It was interesting so I did a bit of research and the all cheese thing
>was a very short term effort in advertising and, from what I read,
>universally trashed by local pundits. One guy wrote, "I lasted two
>bites before giving up".
That's what happens when someone tries to eat the entire cheese stack
in one bite. Perhaps giving the pundit some culinary utensils to
dissect the stack into smaller and more manageable pieces will help.
One can also create a giant stack of hamburgers:
<https://www.google.com/search?q=ultimate+burger+stack&tbm=isch>
Drivel: 8 weeks ago, I had hiatal hernia surgery. After about four
weeks, my gastroenterologist reluctantly agreed that it was ok for me
to try eating some normal food. I interpreted that to mean I could
now eat anything. I decided to try some of the foods that had
previously caused me stomach distress. I was able to successfully eat
almost everything that I tried except a McDonald's 1/4 lb bacon cheese
burger, which gave me a minor two hour stomach ache. I tried it twice
just to be sure.
Lesson learned is that it was the burger, not me, that was the
problem.
wrote:
>It was interesting so I did a bit of research and the all cheese thing
>was a very short term effort in advertising and, from what I read,
>universally trashed by local pundits. One guy wrote, "I lasted two
>bites before giving up".
in one bite. Perhaps giving the pundit some culinary utensils to
dissect the stack into smaller and more manageable pieces will help.
One can also create a giant stack of hamburgers:
<https://www.google.com/search?q=ultimate+burger+stack&tbm=isch>
Drivel: 8 weeks ago, I had hiatal hernia surgery. After about four
weeks, my gastroenterologist reluctantly agreed that it was ok for me
to try eating some normal food. I interpreted that to mean I could
now eat anything. I decided to try some of the foods that had
previously caused me stomach distress. I was able to successfully eat
almost everything that I tried except a McDonald's 1/4 lb bacon cheese
burger, which gave me a minor two hour stomach ache. I tried it twice
just to be sure.
Lesson learned is that it was the burger, not me, that was the
problem.
James
Jul 17, 2023, 10:27:25 PM7/17/23
to
On 11/7/23 22:17, Roger Meriman wrote:
>
> Sounds less hassle than some systems I personally don’t remove from the
> bike, I clean on bike and re lube at least in winter in summer or at least
> when it’s dry and dusty it’s not needed bar occasionally.
Using a quick link, chain removal for maintenance is a non-issue.
>
> Have you experimented with tubless? Which largely though not wholly removes
> pinch flat punctures. Clearly can still ding rims/burp air/damage the
> sidewall if one is very brutal!
No tubeless for me, yet. I'm aware of the reduced pinch flat risk, and
consequences for the rims and tyres from running lower pressure. I tend
to sacrifice a bit of grip and comfort with higher pressure, for less
damaged tyres and rims, and fewer pinch flats.
--
JS
>
> Sounds less hassle than some systems I personally don’t remove from the
> bike, I clean on bike and re lube at least in winter in summer or at least
> when it’s dry and dusty it’s not needed bar occasionally.
Using a quick link, chain removal for maintenance is a non-issue.
>
> Have you experimented with tubless? Which largely though not wholly removes
> pinch flat punctures. Clearly can still ding rims/burp air/damage the
> sidewall if one is very brutal!
No tubeless for me, yet. I'm aware of the reduced pinch flat risk, and
consequences for the rims and tyres from running lower pressure. I tend
to sacrifice a bit of grip and comfort with higher pressure, for less
damaged tyres and rims, and fewer pinch flats.
--
JS
James
Jul 17, 2023, 10:41:18 PM7/17/23
to
On 13/7/23 03:56, Tom Kunich wrote:
>
> Next time I make up a new batch of chain wax I will try the gear lube. Do you have an estimated ratio?
I use about 50/50 ratio wax to gear oil, and then added a lump of moly
grease, just because.
I think if you keep adding oil, then at room temperature the solution
may become less solid and more sticky, which is probably best to avoid.
Maybe you could experiment with a smaller amount of wax, and report back
how much gear oil you could add before the room temperature consistency
changes to be too oily?
--
JS
>
> Next time I make up a new batch of chain wax I will try the gear lube. Do you have an estimated ratio?
I use about 50/50 ratio wax to gear oil, and then added a lump of moly
grease, just because.
I think if you keep adding oil, then at room temperature the solution
may become less solid and more sticky, which is probably best to avoid.
Maybe you could experiment with a smaller amount of wax, and report back
how much gear oil you could add before the room temperature consistency
changes to be too oily?
--
JS
Roger Meriman
Jul 18, 2023, 3:08:47 AM7/18/23
to
tubeless has solved in that I’m not aware of of any!
As a side benefit does ride better even with only a 5psi reduction and lack
of tube, the thermoplastic tubes had similar properties in terms of feel.
Roger Merriman
Tom Kunich
Jul 18, 2023, 5:26:34 PM7/18/23
to
Catrike Rider
Jul 18, 2023, 6:09:35 PM7/18/23
to
On Tue, 18 Jul 2023 14:26:32 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
Getting back to my bicycle database:
My latest innovation is the ability to select any one of my current
list of 48 bike parts and display a separate list of all that item's
updates, including the date of it's installation, the date of it's
retirement, and the number of miles it's been used, even as it's been
transferred from one bike to another. The items' lists also have the
name and ID number of each updated part, and where I bought it.
Yeah, I know it's all unnessecary, but it keeps me out of the pool
halls. Challenging my body and mind is essential for this soon to be
79 year old because what I fear most is turning into a vegatable like
Joe biden.
<cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
My latest innovation is the ability to select any one of my current
list of 48 bike parts and display a separate list of all that item's
updates, including the date of it's installation, the date of it's
retirement, and the number of miles it's been used, even as it's been
transferred from one bike to another. The items' lists also have the
name and ID number of each updated part, and where I bought it.
Yeah, I know it's all unnessecary, but it keeps me out of the pool
halls. Challenging my body and mind is essential for this soon to be
79 year old because what I fear most is turning into a vegatable like
Joe biden.
Tom Kunich
Jul 19, 2023, 3:06:14 PM7/19/23
to
Catrike Rider
Jul 19, 2023, 3:58:21 PM7/19/23
to
On Wed, 19 Jul 2023 12:06:11 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
Well. then don't. I do computer stuff to keep challenging my brain,
and I keep riding the bike to keep challenging my body. I did 50 miles
today, average speed 14.1.
<cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
and I keep riding the bike to keep challenging my body. I did 50 miles
today, average speed 14.1.
Roger Meriman
Jul 19, 2023, 4:03:12 PM7/19/23
to
that the Big Apples tires will last many thousands of miles, 5/8k before
they take too many damage, essentially death by a thousand cuts!
Where as the MTB/Gravel tires maybe 2k
Which is independent from occasionally giving stuff a check.
Roger Merriman
Catrike Rider
Jul 19, 2023, 5:57:32 PM7/19/23
to
On Wed, 19 Jul 2023 20:03:09 GMT, Roger Meriman <ro...@sarlet.com>
wrote:
>Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
I thinkn there's some value in knowing how many miles a bike part has
on it, and it looks like Strava agrees. Of course, nobody has to do
it.
wrote:
>Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
on it, and it looks like Strava agrees. Of course, nobody has to do
it.
John B.
Jul 19, 2023, 8:09:43 PM7/19/23
to
fuselage and the engine, look at it after X hours of flight and
replace it after Y hours, so logically one could after a few years
develop the same sort of inspection on a bicycle. "Lets see now, the
tires wear out after 3,000 miles so I need to be looking at a new set
next month".
--
Cheers,
John B.
Catrike Rider
Jul 20, 2023, 4:50:49 AM7/20/23
to
On Thu, 20 Jul 2023 07:09:32 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>
I still check all the parts myself, but it's nice to know when I
should start doing a more thorough check. It's also nice to be able to
keep a record of which brands wear longer than others.
should start doing a more thorough check. It's also nice to be able to
keep a record of which brands wear longer than others.
Roger Meriman
Jul 20, 2023, 6:57:32 AM7/20/23
to
comparable, get short life with new disk pad/rotors ie when everything is
brand new but once rotor is bedded in etc, seems to settle down.
Also can see that the newer finned pads do last longer at least on the
MTB/Gravel bike. Where they are used fairly strongly.
I suspect on the commute or even on the road wouldn’t be any difference or
marginal at best.
Roger Merriman
Catrike Rider
Jul 20, 2023, 8:03:20 AM7/20/23
to
On Thu, 20 Jul 2023 10:57:28 GMT, Roger Meriman <ro...@sarlet.com>
One thing I hope my record keeping will faciitate is the alignment
issue on my Catrike. It seems that small things serve to mess up the
alignment and as long as I don't notice a degradation in my speed
along with degradation of tire wear, I can be fairly confident that
the alignment has not gone bad.
wrote:
>Catrike Rider <sol...@drafting.not> wrote:
>> On Thu, 20 Jul 2023 07:09:32 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, 19 Jul 2023 17:57:27 -0400, Catrike Rider
>>> <sol...@drafting.not> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Wed, 19 Jul 2023 20:03:09 GMT, Roger Meriman <ro...@sarlet.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On Tuesday, July 18, 2023 at 3:09:35?PM UTC-7, Catrike Rider wrote:
>>>>>>> On Tue, 18 Jul 2023 14:26:32 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
>>>>>>> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Monday, July 17, 2023 at 7:27:25?PM UTC-7, James wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 11/7/23 22:17, Roger Meriman wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Sounds less hassle than some systems I personally don?t remove from the
>Catrike Rider <sol...@drafting.not> wrote:
>> On Thu, 20 Jul 2023 07:09:32 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, 19 Jul 2023 17:57:27 -0400, Catrike Rider
>>> <sol...@drafting.not> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Wed, 19 Jul 2023 20:03:09 GMT, Roger Meriman <ro...@sarlet.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On Tuesday, July 18, 2023 at 3:09:35?PM UTC-7, Catrike Rider wrote:
>>>>>>> On Tue, 18 Jul 2023 14:26:32 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
>>>>>>> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Monday, July 17, 2023 at 7:27:25?PM UTC-7, James wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 11/7/23 22:17, Roger Meriman wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> bike, I clean on bike and re lube at least in winter in summer or at least
>>>>>>>>>> when it?s dry and dusty it?s not needed bar occasionally.
issue on my Catrike. It seems that small things serve to mess up the
alignment and as long as I don't notice a degradation in my speed
along with degradation of tire wear, I can be fairly confident that
the alignment has not gone bad.
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