Shimano rear derailleur successs

[Mark cleary]

So I just read an article in the local paper on how bike shops cannot get bikes and are focused on repair. Seems that even in repairs they cannot get parts. I think that is so true yet I was able to score an r8000 rear derailleur for an upgrade on my 6800 at Jenson. I guess it seems to be hit or miss and my needs would be way less than the LBS. I wonder if they simply give up trying to get parts or do what I do, search the internet.

In any case I installed the new derailleur the angles for the pinch bolt and rear cable seem much straighter than the 6800 that came off. I dialed in the shifting and cabling so that on the stand it is a beautiful operation. Will give it the test ride tomorrow as on the stand means nothing in the real world. Do the rest if you also ascribe to this theory?

I did notice that the clearance of rear derailleur is enough for the spokes on the wheel but it is not like it is huge amount either. Seem to check against my 6700 set up on the other bike. Still though things have to be in alignment, no bent hangers for sure.

All in all a success so far the ride will confirm but working on a bike is sort of like taking care of your wife. You have to tread delicately at times and then you never know till the waters are tested. Now I better focus on the homily the deacon has to preach this weekend
Deacon Mark

[jbeattie]

On Tuesday, July 20, 2021 at 4:33:09 PM UTC-7, Mark cleary wrote:
> So I just read an article in the local paper on how bike shops cannot get bikes and are focused on repair. Seems that even in repairs they cannot get parts. I think that is so true yet I was able to score an r8000 rear derailleur for an upgrade on my 6800 at Jenson. I guess it seems to be hit or miss and my needs would be way less than the LBS. I wonder if they simply give up trying to get parts or do what I do, search the internet.
>
> In any case I installed the new derailleur the angles for the pinch bolt and rear cable seem much straighter than the 6800 that came off. I dialed in the shifting and cabling so that on the stand it is a beautiful operation. Will give it the test ride tomorrow as on the stand means nothing in the real world. Do the rest if you also ascribe to this theory?

No, not for RDs -- unless you have unrelated issues that affect shifting under load (worn chainrings, old chain, old cassettes, etc.). Of course, you may get some housing bedding in that will affect your initial adjustment, and on-bike shifting can be more vigorous than on the stand, so low limit may be off -- but personally, the stand gives me a pretty good idea of whether shifting is dialed in.

> I did notice that the clearance of rear derailleur is enough for the spokes on the wheel but it is not like it is huge amount either. Seem to check against my 6700 set up on the other bike. Still though things have to be in alignment, no bent hangers for sure.
>
> All in all a success so far the ride will confirm but working on a bike is sort of like taking care of your wife. You have to tread delicately at times and then you never know till the waters are tested. Now I better focus on the homily the deacon has to preach this weekend

I'd go with Derailleurs 3:16 "And lo he turned the adjustment barrel, and shifting was good, and he said unto the disbeliever, is not shifting good? No Lord, said the disbeliever, I am Tom Kunich." [The Lord gets exhausted and rides away].

-- Jay Beattie.

[jbeattie]

And further to my last, as Andrew pointed out, you can avoid limit issues by checking it mechanically on the stand -- pushing in the derailleur with your hand and making sure there is no potential for over-shift.

-- Jay Beattie.

[AMuzi]

Ensure the changer is tight in the frame end.
Shift firmly with your thumb from 2d to low gear:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfromthepast/gearchek.jpg


--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[Frank Krygowski]

On 7/20/2021 8:00 PM, jbeattie wrote:
> On Tuesday, July 20, 2021 at 4:33:09 PM UTC-7, Mark cleary wrote:
>> So I just read an article in the local paper on how bike shops cannot get bikes and are focused on repair. Seems that even in repairs they cannot get parts. I think that is so true yet I was able to score an r8000 rear derailleur for an upgrade on my 6800 at Jenson. I guess it seems to be hit or miss and my needs would be way less than the LBS. I wonder if they simply give up trying to get parts or do what I do, search the internet.
>>
>> In any case I installed the new derailleur the angles for the pinch bolt and rear cable seem much straighter than the 6800 that came off. I dialed in the shifting and cabling so that on the stand it is a beautiful operation. Will give it the test ride tomorrow as on the stand means nothing in the real world. Do the rest if you also ascribe to this theory?
>
> No, not for RDs -- unless you have unrelated issues that affect shifting under load (worn chainrings, old chain, old cassettes, etc.). Of course, you may get some housing bedding in that will affect your initial adjustment, and on-bike shifting can be more vigorous than on the stand, so low limit may be off -- but personally, the stand gives me a pretty good idea of whether shifting is dialed in.

I've fine-tuned adjustments a bit during test rides after workstand
adjustments. Nothing major, but I've done some minor tweaking to get
things exactly right.

--
- Frank Krygowski

[Mark cleary]

Well did a 60 mile ride today in 3:16 the bike shifted fine as I expect. I must say though the possibly is shifts a bit quieter but really not any different. I do think the angle that the cable comes out and attaches to the pinch bolt is still much better. It is a much straighter pull than the 6800. I used the same housing and cable all I did was swap derailleur. The derailleur comes with a special piece of housing and ferrules for the rear loop but I just save it till I need to replace it. That really is the only place my shifters get much wear. The rear loop is always the first to take the beating. It seems the special housing shimano supplies is supposed to be more flexible.

Well so much for upgrades but maybe having a spare derailleur around is a good thing. I tend to try and keep spare parts around. I have even thought a getting a spare headset I use a Ritchey WCS external cup and they don't have them on there website in stock. I found another place that does, I always wonder if they will stop making the external cup headsets since most bikes don't use them these days. My headset is fine but I did have to replace it a about 20,000 miles the bottom cup got corroded and bearing went bad. I keep spare cables and housing I buy in bulk but right now I don't have another set of tires. I use conti pg5000s. I have ties on other wheelsets but not a new pair on the shelf.


Deacon Mark

[funkma...@hotmail.com]

Things rarely work as well on the road/trail as they do on the workstand.

[Ted Heise]

On Tue, 20 Jul 2021 19:10:07 -0500,
AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> On 7/20/2021 6:33 PM, Mark cleary wrote:

> > In any case I installed the new derailleur the angles for the
> > pinch bolt and rear cable seem much straighter than the 6800
> > that came off. I dialed in the shifting and cabling so that on
> > the stand it is a beautiful operation. Will give it the test
> > ride tomorrow as on the stand means nothing in the real world.
> > Do the rest if you also ascribe to this theory?
> >
> > I did notice that the clearance of rear derailleur is enough
> > for the spokes on the wheel but it is not like it is huge
> > amount either. Seem to check against my 6700 set up on the
> > other bike. Still though things have to be in alignment, no
> > bent hangers for sure.

> Ensure the changer is tight in the frame end.
> Shift firmly with your thumb from 2d to low gear:
> http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfromthepast/gearchek.jpg

That's an excellent illustration, thanks!

--
Ted Heise <the...@panix.com> West Lafayette, IN, USA

[Tom Kunich]

I'm not familiar with the older Shimano parts anymore though the Di2 stuff is familiar. I seem to recall that the hinges were mere pins in the body of the derailleur as they are in the Campy. This means that they can wear over time and shift a little inaccurately. My 10 speed stuff has to be played with. It will under or overshift and rattle and you have to be able to tell by the way it shifted whether you have to try to upshift or downshift to get it into the proper gear. The new Ergo Power shifters have none of these problems of the older Ultra shifters. Also the newer shifters shift a great deal easier. I would have liked a set of 10 speed Chorus Ergo Power shifters but I think that they only came in 11's.

In any case, the rear derailleurs in particular do show wear on the hinges and may not adjust perfectly.

[Tom Kunich]

Yesterday I did 37 miles in 4 hours but it included 2770 feet of climbing and much of the climbing was over 8%. The max was slightly over 12%. The only stopping I did was for the lady with the stop sign for the road work crew. She apologized for stopping me but I enjoyed the rest for 20 seconds. I stopped at a steep complex turn to let some truck traffic through first so I didn't hold them up.

I have another 37 mile ride that has 3300 feet of climbing but the grades are all more like 7%. And a 50 mile ride that I used to do weekly but it only had 1200 feet of climbing.

[AMuzi]

Not my work.
It's from miketechinfo.com, up by Canada dere, eh?

[AMuzi]

IME you'll eventually see top pivots develop slop but body
pins rarely if ever.

[jbeattie]

For derailleurs, I think there is a pretty high correlation between functioning on the stand and functioning on the road, assuming limits are set correctly -- and assuming a good install and ferrules and housing are settled in. IME, the big disparity between stand and road is with load-related problems, typically with wear items -- like putting on a new chain, and it works great on the stand and skips all over the place on the old cassette when you go for a ride. I can rarely recreate clicks and pops on the stand because the usual sources (rear dropout/axle face or even BB) are unloaded.

So if derailleurs do work well on the stand and don't work well on the road, I look for the worn/impending failure things like fraying cables in the lever, shot rings or cogs -- or sometimes just BB cable stick amplified by a flexing BB. I'm sure there are other suspects. You can wear out derailleurs, but that is pretty rare, and you can detect the slop on the stand usually. I'm no expert on derailleur wear and have probably worn out one or two Shimano RDs in the last 45 years. I have gone through my share of pulleys, but not recently.

-- Jay Beattie.

[Mark cleary]

Where do you cycle what part of country? Do you do the Strava thing?
Deacon Mark

[Tom Kunich]

Well, following that procedure of pressing the rear derailleur back and forth you can feel some freeplay though it is slight. If I have everything set perfectly, it will shift well but that seldom lasts for more than a week or so. But the Ergo Power shifter is so easy and accurate that I was going to buy other sets until I realized that people were bidding the cost of these things above the cost of a new Chorus 12 speed. That makes it senseless to remain with the 10 speeds. While I hate the multiple speeds and all of the time spent shifting, I hate more being screwed on the cost of used items.

[Tom Kunich]

I'm in the San Francisco bay area and we have the hills that separate us from the central valley. You should come on something like the Berkeley bike club Century which starts with a mile long climb with a 9% kink in it and then there is some serious climbing later. One spot after a rest stop is so steep that at least 10% of the people push their bikes up it.

[Lou Holtman]

On Wednesday, July 21, 2021 at 3:33:27 PM UTC+2, Mark cleary wrote:
I keep spare cables and housing I buy in bulk but right now I don't have another set of tires. I use conti pg5000s. I have ties on other wheelsets but not a new pair on the shelf.

Hmm, I have a whole 'tubes and tires' shelf:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/YLqjFTn3ZCcZhkfF9
https://photos.app.goo.gl/kKSubD8WxNtkXcAbA

GP5000 in sizes 25, 28 and 32 mm. You have to have some choice ;-)

Lou, 90 km in just under 3 hr today. Flat off course.

[Frank Krygowski]

On 7/21/2021 10:56 AM, jbeattie wrote:
> You can wear out derailleurs, but that is pretty rare, and you can detect the slop on the stand usually. I'm no expert on derailleur wear and have probably worn out one or two Shimano RDs in the last 45 years.

I've got a 40+ year old derailleur on my utility bike. It's got lots of
slack in its linkage joints, but it shifts fine. Five cog friction
shifting is amazingly tolerant.

--
- Frank Krygowski

[Tom Kunich]

My experience was that although GP5000's had very good traction, I would wear them out rapidly. And at the moment, I can't afford to blow through tires. It is getting to be difficult to buy Michelin Pro4's which was my second choice and lasted longer.

On a century I was on a slight descent and there was a flagman on a corner up ahead. I could see enough of the corner to see it wasn't a bad turn but he had this panic stricken look on his face as if he was about to see a large high speed crash. Those GP5000's went around that turn like it was straight road.

[Mark cleary]

I get 6000 miles on a set to Conti GP5000 possible could get more but I then figure go ahead and put a new tire on. They ride great I use 25mm
Deacon Mark