Bicycle mirrors and bicycle trailers

[Sir Ridesalot]

I've tried bar end mirrors on my road bikes with drop bars but didn't like the mirrors because my arm blocks the view of them especially if wearing a jacket or bulky clothing. I put a Mirrcycle MTB mirror in my drop bar as a contingency mirror until I could get the proper brake lever mounted one. This Long Weekend (Victoria Day Weekend here in Canada) I discovered that a Mirrcycle mirror located in the end of a dropbar allows one to see the trailer one is pulling. This is great as you not only can see where the trailer is but what's going on on it if you're pulling a pet or children.

The advantage of the Mirrcycle mirror in the drop bar end is that the Mirrcycle mirror has an arm/extension that locatess the mirror quite a bit left of where a left hand drop bar mirror is located. This means your arm isn't obscuring the mirror. The mirror can easily be swung inboard to protect it from breakage when the bicycle is parked.

Cheers

[Joerg]

Have you ever seen such a mirror made out of polished stainless steel or
some other unbreakable material? Just about every mirror I saw on bikes
on trails was busted.

Most people just want to know whether there is a car or other biker
coming up from behind and the image quality doesn't have to be great for
that.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

[avag...@gmail.com]

absolute plastic mirrors should be near unbustable if not unscracthabl

Ibin lobbying for eyeglass projector TV 180 degree equipment...notice Herr Holtman's electronic gearshifters...

not much Gizmode on that...and Google whatever is a commercial phantom

[Joerg]

On 2015-05-18 4:19 PM, avag...@gmail.com wrote:
> absolute plastic mirrors should be near unbustable if not
> unscracthabl
>

Yeah, but is there a commercial bar end mirror like that?

> Ibin lobbying for eyeglass projector TV 180 degree equipment...notice
> Herr Holtman's electronic gearshifters...
>

"Honey, I'll be an hour or two late for dinner because the battery in my
shifter controller went out".

> not much Gizmode on that...and Google whatever is a commercial
> phantom
>

I don't want much in electronics on the bikes, except for lighting where
it is needed. If we want camera - monitor setups then we might as well
go all out and have a rear facing camera under the seat or somewhere on
the rear of the bike, then transmit the video to a smart phone on the
handlebar. Bluetooth or whatever should work. Of course, that could
become iffy when riding in a large group where many people have that
system. It could also double as a traffic cam to catch naughty drivers.

[avag...@gmail.com]

https://goo.gl/lmXS7j

https://www.google.com/search?site=imghp&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1265&bih=721&q=plastic+mirors&oq=plastic+mirors&gs_l=img.12..0i10i24.2418.7330.0.11514.14.14.0.0.0.0.206.1935.0j12j1.13.0.msedr...0...1ac.1.64.img..1.13.1923.u-Lkp92Vx6E#tbm=isch&q=plastic+bar+end+bicycle+mirors

carry a spare battery

how's the golf coming ? I read briefly course owners are whining abt economic necessity.

seeing the long deep blue strip on the Sierra last week was AAA

[Sir Ridesalot]

Oh bother!

Another hijacked thread?

Note my post was about mirrors and trailers and nowhere was trails mentioned. I've ridden many trails with my drop handle bar touring bike, Shimano 600 EX brake levers with the Original mirrcycle mirror mounted on them. I have a mirror on each lever as the right mirror shows me what's behind me when I'm on a right hand curve whilst the left mirror shows a nice view of the left side forest or fields. I bought those mirrors in the 1080s and haven't broken one yet. As I said in my original post the mirror can pivot out of the way in a spill.

The biggest advantage of the Mirrcycle mirrors is that they don't require a lot of arm movement before you can see them.

And Joerg, we know from your other posts and threads that nothing bicycle related meets your extremely high criteria.

Cheers

[James]

Wow! You're older than I thought ;-) (I know. I know. The '9' and '0'
are next to each other...)

> said in my original post the mirror can pivot out of the way in a
> spill.
>
> The biggest advantage of the Mirrcycle mirrors is that they don't
> require a lot of arm movement before you can see them.
>
> And Joerg, we know from your other posts and threads that nothing
> bicycle related meets your extremely high criteria.
>

Ha ha ha.

I had another idea from left field, that Jeff would be able to run
with... What about a rear facing camera with a display on the
handlebars? Like a reversing camera for a car. You could power it from
a 12V dynamo hub, for example. Use a toggle button on the handlebars to
turn it on and off.

--
JS

[Andre Jute]

The inexpensive Kodak Zx1 sports camera recommended to me by Phil Lee has an output that could be cabled to a little LCD screen on the handlebars. I mention this camera in particular because it is a) only about fifty bucks, so you can leave it on the bike, and b) has the advantage of an available accessory case that would protect a car tyre and c) the aftermarket protective case, being thick rubber, works as a partial solution to road vibration. I use mine, often not running, mounted to my rack as a deterrent to poor drivers.

Andre Jute

[Andre Jute]

I wear Bell Metro and Citi helmets, which have a visor with provision for a custom helmet arm that folds out and gives you a rear view mirror that moves with your head. It's actually quite adequate, but I don't use it often because squinting at it gives me a migraine; people with eyes less bashed around by an adventurous youth than mine do however love it.

***

The mirror I can't recommend enough is the Cateye 300G race mirror. This is a cheap and v ery lightweight barend-plug mirror that you can use in a variety of positions. I need my mirror on the right where I also have the Rohloff's rotary shifter, and space is generally tight on my handlebars because the North Road curves take away a lot of the apparent length, so my hand often disturbs the mirror if it points up. I use it hanging down and that is, like your installation, very convenient because it gives a field of view uninterrupted by my jacket, and I'm not going into contortions to see past my sleeve. It's a big round mirror but easily moved out of the way.

Because of my history of smashing expensive Zefal Dooback mirrors (there's a footbridge I cross almost daily at the bottom of a hill where my terminal velocity is over 40kph and there is only an inch of spare space on each side between the two entry pillars, with predictable results...), I bought half a dozen of these Cateye 300G, but I'm only on my second one in seven years, and have given the others to pedal pals.

****

I had a polished stainless steel mirror, domed, which is the only kind I could find, and it was a piece of crap that distorted the view from behind and made cars right on my heels seem grotesquely far back. Dangerous perspective, that. But the fellow I gave it to, who never had a mirror before, loved it so much that one day when he lost it, despite me offering to give him a better mirror, retraced a hard ride to go find his one and only fave mirror. Can't account for tastes. But I do think you're wrong, Joerg: image quality, and fidelity especially in perspective, counts for quite a lot in a bike mirror, to me anyway.

Andre Jute

[John B.]

On Tue, 19 May 2015 13:30:55 +1000, James <james.e...@gmail.com>
wrote:

Or, maybe, just look back over your shoulder :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

[avag...@gmail.com]

TRY CAMCORDERS AND SECURITY....cost equals effectivenss...lens realtiies vary from real to guess

screen gotta go on eyewear.

looking down or to the side reduces the concept back to static mirroring

[Sir Ridesalot]

Do any of your mirrors allow you to see what's going on INSIDE a trailer being towed behind your bicycle (the topic of this thread)? I've used excellent helmet mounted mirrors that gave fantastic views of overtaking traffic but they could not be adjusted to allow me to see what was going on inside my bicycle trailer behind my bicycle.

Cheers

[Rolf Mantel]

Am 19.05.2015 um 14:27 schrieb Sir Ridesalot:
> Do any of your mirrors allow you to see what's going on INSIDE a
> trailer being towed behind your bicycle (the topic of this thread)?
> I've used excellent helmet mounted mirrors that gave fantastic views
> of overtaking traffic but they could not be adjusted to allow me to
> see what was going on inside my bicycle trailer behind my bicycle.

On my recumbent, I was able to see in the Take-a-Look whether the child
in the trailer was awake or asleep but not much more.

[avag...@gmail.com]

well WTH is in the VB^^i023 trailer ? rabid wallabe ?

you need optics ! mount mirror on top helmet for watching rabid wallaby, one mirror directly ahead and above eyelevel for watching your rabid wallaby watching mirror....

[avag...@gmail.com]

kid zones on CO ?

[Andre Jute]

Yes, the cheap Cateye 300G hanging from the barend would let me see inside a trailer. (I don't use a trailer but I can imagine it.)

Helmet mounted mirrors need to be set up to show you one important slice of what's happening behind you; if you arrange a hjelmet mirror to show you the inside of a trailer, it wouldn't show traffic as well.

Andre Jute

[Rolf Mantel]

Am 19.05.2015 um 16:00 schrieb Andre Jute:
> Helmet mounted mirrors need to be set up to show you one important
> slice of what's happening behind you; if you arrange a hjelmet mirror
> to show you the inside of a trailer, it wouldn't show traffic as
> well.

I percieve this in exactly the opposite way: a bicycle-mounted mirror
shows you a fixed view depending on your usual cycling position.
A helmet-mounted mirror or sunglasses-mounted mirror allows you to scan
the area behind you easily with minimal head movements.

In both scenarios, it is a little bit of a challenge to combine the view
straight behind you for traffic with the view 'down-and-behind' into the
trailer.
In the take-a-look, I feel I have a 360° view of my surroundings without
thinking, but the look insid the trailer had to be triggered by my wife
asking "is he/she asleep now?" and needed a few seconds of concentrated
looking.
On the bar-end mirror, I have no chance to look into the trailer because
on the recumbent I cannot change my head position easily.

[sms]

On 5/18/2015 4:32 PM, Joerg wrote:

<snip>

> I don't want much in electronics on the bikes, except for lighting where
> it is needed. If we want camera - monitor setups then we might as well
> go all out and have a rear facing camera under the seat or somewhere on
> the rear of the bike, then transmit the video to a smart phone on the
> handlebar. Bluetooth or whatever should work. Of course, that could
> become iffy when riding in a large group where many people have that
> system. It could also double as a traffic cam to catch naughty drivers.

I visited a large bicycle company in my area last year. To me, it was
rather alarming regarding the electronics that are going into higher end
bicycles. Electronic shifting, torque sensors, tire pressure monitors.
Charging your bicycle once a month for the shifting, and replacing
batteries in the wheels and cranks is not something I would look forward
to. People put up with the hassle of charging their lights because the
drawbacks of dynamo lights are often too great.

As an aside, yesterday I was on Caltrain (SF to San Jose commuter line)
with my bike and about 60 other bikes (the conductor was a nice one and
wasn't bumping cyclists). At least in the bike car I was in, there was
not a single dynamo equipped-bicycle other than mine, and these are
_all_ people commuting, and most have enough money to acquire dynamo
lighting if they wanted it.

[Frank Krygowski]

On 5/19/2015 8:27 AM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
>
>
> Do any of your mirrors allow you to see what's going on INSIDE a trailer being towed behind your bicycle (the topic of this thread)? I've used excellent helmet mounted mirrors that gave fantastic views of overtaking traffic but they could not be adjusted to allow me to see what was going on inside my bicycle trailer behind my bicycle.

I recall, long ago, seeing ads for a rear view mirror that clipped to
the down tube of a bicycle frame. I guess the idea was that your got a
view to the rear down the center line of the bike. I never even
considered trying it; it just didn't seem to make sense, and I really
like my eyeglass mirrors. But perhaps such a thing would work for
monitoring a trailer.

--
- Frank Krygowski

[Frank Krygowski]

I think a helmet- or eyeglass-mounted mirror may work that way for a
recumbent rider. I know my eyeglass mirror shows me my bike trailer
only if I twist and contort in a pretty radical way. If I needed to
frequently monitor a trailer, I'd need something more.

Now, if a person didn't worry about taking a further step into
geekiness, perhaps they could use two eyeglass mirrors. The one on the
left could be focused on traffic, and another on the right could be
focused on the trailer.

--
- Frank Krygowski

[Joerg]

Same here. I could buy a front wheel with a hub dyno but it won't be
able power the front light of my mountain bike. Unless I plumb in a hub
motor used as a generator which is just too much work.

I don't mind the charging, it's an almost automatic thing after each
ride (I ride with daytime lights). As an electrical engineer who designs
electronics for a living this may sound odd but I believe less is better
when it comes to electronics in vehicles. On cars that stuff breaks down
all the time, it's just not as good as aircraft electronics (which I
sometimes design).

[Andre Jute]

There are bound to be different preferences and levels of skill with helmet/spectacle frame-mounted mirrors. Also different styles of usage for roadies, upright utility cyclists, and recumbents. Didn't a wise man once say "YMMV"?

Andre Jute

[Joerg]

Well, in some parts of the country bush riding is part of the game or
you won't be riding a lot. At least not to get from A to B. Also, I saw
lots of busted mirrors on the American River Bike Path which is wide and
paved. On bikes that aren't trail-rated. When I was a kid this happened
a lot in the school bike arking lot, bikes falling over, into each other
and stuff.

[avag...@gmail.com]

https://optoutenmasse.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/img_0649.jpg

[Duane]

Yeah but he's asking about a mirror that lets you see what's in a
trailer you're pulling behind your bike. I don't see many bush riders
pulling a couple of toddlers in a carriage...

[Joerg]

Come out here where you can see them. I don't remember the brand but
some child trailers have single-wheel, just like the MTB bob trailers.
There is even a double-seater but they are behind each other, like on
fighter jets. Weiho or something like that? When li'l Joey gets older
they switch to a more open air sort of tractor-trailer setup where
junior sits on a single-wheel trailer with his own set of pedals. Our
neighbor has one.

I've seen lots of busted mirrors on regular communter bikes as well.
Happened to me many times at high school, trudging down to the bike
racks, only to find that someone had knocked my bike over and the mirror
was busted again.

Tonight I have to make a visit and the only way to get there by bike is
this kind of road:

http://www.analogconsultants.com/ng/bike/CoachLane1.JPG

Folks out here don't have much trouble navigating that with a trailer if
needed.

[avag...@gmail.com]

THEY'LL PULL YOUR DICK BUT NOT YOUR TODDLER

[jbeattie]

I saw another guy riding with a dynamo just the other night. We stopped and hugged -- and showed each other photos (dyno being wired, first birthday, getting a dyno-bath). The dynamo community is very supportive.

Stay strong my brother. Solid! http://tinyurl.com/mamjhqq
(that opening triplet pattern was a killer for high school trumpet players)

-- Jay Beattie.

[Joe Riel]

Point taken; however, a neighbor would pull her toddler to day care in a
trailer on the local multiuse hiking/biking/horse trail that is all dirt
with occasional sand patches and loose rock.

--
Joe Riel

[sms]

On 5/19/2015 10:40 AM, jbeattie wrote:

<snip>

>> As an aside, yesterday I was on Caltrain (SF to San Jose commuter line)
>> with my bike and about 60 other bikes (the conductor was a nice one and
>> wasn't bumping cyclists). At least in the bike car I was in, there was
>> not a single dynamo equipped-bicycle other than mine, and these are
>> _all_ people commuting, and most have enough money to acquire dynamo
>> lighting if they wanted it.
>
> I saw another guy riding with a dynamo just the other night. We stopped and hugged -- and showed each other photos (dyno being wired, first birthday, getting a dyno-bath). The dynamo community is very supportive.

Shame on you. Franks stops and sings Kumbaya whenever he meets another
dynamo users.

[jbeattie]

No offense Joerg, but you live in Cameron Park -- which had roads the last time I visited. http://tinyurl.com/m8jychv I imagine that you can cut some distance by going overland, but that's optional. No? It seems like a pretty civilized area. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nv9_39dTggU

It's quite a bit different from my commute. http://www.examiner.com/images/blog/wysiwyg/image/dangerous_roads.jpg Sometimes I just walk to work to avoid that road at rush hour. http://images.viralnova.com/000/017/760/huashan5.jpg

-- Jay Beattie.

[sms]

On 5/19/2015 9:11 AM, Joerg wrote:

> I don't mind the charging, it's an almost automatic thing after each
> ride (I ride with daytime lights). As an electrical engineer who designs
> electronics for a living this may sound odd but I believe less is better
> when it comes to electronics in vehicles. On cars that stuff breaks down
> all the time, it's just not as good as aircraft electronics (which I
> sometimes design).

Yesterday I was on Caltrain because I had dropped off a vehicle at my
brother-in-law's garage for a timing belt, water pump, and brake job,
before he retires and sells the business next month.

He was showing be a bucket of broken sensors (O2 and MAF) that he's
collected. These cost about $200 each (parts) to replace and the failure
mode is that the resistive heating element fails and is not replaceable.
Labor for the replacement is cheap since they are easily accessible.
Since he does smog checks, and since you can't pass a smog check with a
failed sensor, it's a steady stream of income. The used sensors are sold
to recyclers who want the platinum.

[Joerg]

Realtor videos always look like this is The Hamptons. Yes, I can go from
here to Shingle Springs or Placerville on Durock Road and then Mother
Load Drive. But those roads are dangerous for cyclists. Stretches
without shoulders, let alone bike lanes. People are frequently speeding,
driving while texting, driving home from the saloon, more or less
soused, et cetera. I had one episode on Durock Road where I had to
vacate the paved surface prontissimo. Luckily I was on an MTB, down the
ditch, up the other side. A driver behind me must have noticed me at the
last second, slammed on the brakes, screeeeech ... So no, I won't ride
on that road anymore until they build at least bike lanes.

That leaves Highway 50 where bicycles are not allowed so you'd get a
hefty ticket. One alternative is the route in the above link, followed
by very nice singletrack. The other alternative is this route which I
also use at least once a week:

http://www.analogconsultants.com/ng/bike/Chapparal2.jpg

It used to be the same to Folsom but now one can ride Green Valley Road
fairly safely because there is a wide enough shoulder. Before, there
were numerous acccidents and one cyclist was rear ended at full speed,
died at the scene. So far for the crazy idea of "taking the lane". Most
of the time I now use the old road bike for any Western destination. But
never east, that's always mountain bike turf.

Since I use my barely one year old MTB a lot it's all banged up, dirty
and I am through several tires.

> It's quite a bit different from my commute.
> http://www.examiner.com/images/blog/wysiwyg/image/dangerous_roads.jpg

My kind of road :-)

> Sometimes I just walk to work to avoid that road at rush hour.
> http://images.viralnova.com/000/017/760/huashan5.jpg
>

Probably best to use a fat bike with parachute there.

[avag...@gmail.com]

https://goo.gl/2q8Q1F

[avag...@gmail.com]

itsa living..

https://www.google.com/#q=trans+american+dirt+bike+trail

[avag...@gmail.com]

Point taken; however, a neighbor would pull her toddler to day care in a
trailer on the local multiuse hiking/biking/horse trail that is all dirt

with occasional sand patches in the realms of gold,
And many goodly states and kingdoms seen;
Round many western islands have I been
Which bards in fealty to Apollo hold.
Oft of one wide expanse had I been told
That deep-browed Homer ruled as his demesne;
Yet did I never breathe its pure serene
Till I heard Chapman speak out loud and bold:
Then felt I like some watcher of the skies
When a new planet swims into his ken;
Or like stout Cortez when with eagle eyes
He star'd at the Pacific -- and all his men
Look'd at each other with a wild surmise --
Silent, upon a peak in Darien

[avag...@gmail.com]

Probably best to use a fat bike with parachute there.

old logging roads never die but the bridges wash out......

[AMuzi]

Keats died before bicycles.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[Sir Ridesalot]

On Tuesday, May 19, 2015 at 1:16:57 PM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:

> >>>>> The advantage of the Mirrcycle mirror in the drop bar end is that
> >>>>> the Mirrcycle mirror has an arm/extension that locatess the
> >>>>> mirror quite a bit left of where a left hand drop bar mirror is
> >>>>> located. This means your arm isn't obscuring the mirror. The
> >>>>> mirror can easily be swung inboard to protect it from breakage
> >>>>> when the bicycle is parked.
> >>>>>

/
> >>>
> >>> Oh bother!
> >>>
> >>> Another hijacked thread?
> >>>
> >>> Note my post was about mirrors and trailers and nowhere was trails
> >>> mentioned. I've ridden many trails with my drop handle bar touring
> >>> bike, Shimano 600 EX brake levers with the Original mirrcycle mirror
> >>> mounted on them. I have a mirror on each lever as the right mirror
> >>> shows me what's behind me when I'm on a right hand curve whilst the
> >>> left mirror shows a nice view of the left side forest or fields. I
> >>> bought those mirrors in the 1080s and haven't broken one yet. As I
> >>> said in my original post the mirror can pivot out of the way in a
> >>> spill.
> >>>

>

> I've seen lots of busted mirrors on regular communter bikes as well.
> Happened to me many times at high school, trudging down to the bike
> racks, only to find that someone had knocked my bike over and the mirror
> was busted again.

>

> --
> Regards, Joerg
>
> http://www.analogconsultants.com/

A mrrcycle mirror can be swung inwards past the handlebar to protect the mirror when the bicycle is parked.

Cheers

[Frank Krygowski]

On 5/19/2015 4:21 PM, Phil W Lee wrote:
> Frank Krygowski <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> considered Tue, 19 May 2015

> Having used one of those, yes, it would give an excellent view of the
> trailer, unless you also use a rack bag or saddle bag.
> However, if the trailer is big enough for a child, it's quite likely
> that the trailer is ALL you'll be able to see in it.

Then it would solve Sir's problem. He can use any other mirror he
chooses to monitor traffic.


--
- Frank Krygowski

[Frank Krygowski]

On 5/19/2015 6:38 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>
> Keats died before bicycles.
>

Which was a real shame.


--
- Frank Krygowski

[Sir Ridesalot]

My OP stated that the Mirrcycle mirror mounted in the end of the drop bar allowed me to see into the towed trailer. That mirror was a solution not a problem. With it there I can also see overtaking traffic. The BIG advantage is that the mirror is NOT blocked by my arm as were all the other dedicated bar end mirrors I've tried for drop bars.

Cheers

[Rolf Mantel]

Am 19.05.2015 um 17:05 schrieb Frank Krygowski:
> On 5/19/2015 10:26 AM, Rolf Mantel wrote:
>> Am 19.05.2015 um 16:00 schrieb Andre Jute:
>>> Helmet mounted mirrors need to be set up to show you one important
>>> slice of what's happening behind you; if you arrange a hjelmet mirror
>>> to show you the inside of a trailer, it wouldn't show traffic as
>>> well.
>>
>> I percieve this in exactly the opposite way: a bicycle-mounted mirror
>> shows you a fixed view depending on your usual cycling position.
>> A helmet-mounted mirror or sunglasses-mounted mirror allows you to scan
>> the area behind you easily with minimal head movements.
>>
>> In both scenarios, it is a little bit of a challenge to combine the view
>> straight behind you for traffic with the view 'down-and-behind' into the
>> trailer.
>> In the take-a-look, I feel I have a 360° view of my surroundings without
>> thinking, but the look insid the trailer had to be triggered by my wife
>> asking "is he/she asleep now?" and needed a few seconds of concentrated
>> looking.
>> On the bar-end mirror, I have no chance to look into the trailer because
>> on the recumbent I cannot change my head position easily.
>
> I think a helmet- or eyeglass-mounted mirror may work that way for a
> recumbent rider. I know my eyeglass mirror shows me my bike trailer
> only if I twist and contort in a pretty radical way.

This seems to be extremely different depending on your exact riding
position. On the recumbent it was reasonably easy, on the 'round town'
bike with very upright sitting position it was difficult but doable. I
can well imagine that on the racing bike with drop bars, it might be
near impossible. I can also imagine that on a helmet mirror that is a
bit further away from the eye, everything will be completely different
again.

[Andre Jute]

Exactly my experience of a mirror mounted under North Road bars,

Andre Jute

[Joerg]

So were mine back in high school because I learned that lesson fast.
They still got smashed. Mostly because numerous bikes fell into each
other. Some traffic mirrors (Germany) at tight intersections back then
were polished stainless steel. They even stood their ground when people
threw rocks at them. I'd always grumbled why that wasn't available for
bicycles.

[Joerg]

Are you sure?

http://www.sonnyradio.com/flintstonebike.htm

:-)

[russell...@yahoo.com]

On Tuesday, May 19, 2015 at 9:46:56 AM UTC-5, sms wrote:
> On 5/18/2015 4:32 PM, Joerg wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
> > I don't want much in electronics on the bikes, except for lighting where
> > it is needed. If we want camera - monitor setups then we might as well
> > go all out and have a rear facing camera under the seat or somewhere on
> > the rear of the bike, then transmit the video to a smart phone on the
> > handlebar. Bluetooth or whatever should work. Of course, that could
> > become iffy when riding in a large group where many people have that
> > system. It could also double as a traffic cam to catch naughty drivers.
>
> I visited a large bicycle company in my area last year. To me, it was
> rather alarming regarding the electronics that are going into higher end
> bicycles. Electronic shifting, torque sensors, tire pressure monitors.
> Charging your bicycle once a month for the shifting, and replacing
> batteries in the wheels and cranks is not something I would look forward
> to. People put up with the hassle of charging their lights because the
> drawbacks of dynamo lights are often too great.
>

> As an aside, yesterday I was on Caltrain (SF to San Jose commuter line)
> with my bike and about 60 other bikes (the conductor was a nice one and
> wasn't bumping cyclists). At least in the bike car I was in, there was
> not a single dynamo equipped-bicycle other than mine, and these are
> _all_ people commuting, and most have enough money to acquire dynamo
> lighting if they wanted it.

> Charging your bicycle once a month for the shifting,

This statement indicates you are completely clueless about electronic shifting on bicycles. Do not spread more lies about things you know nothing about. My older Shimano Di2 electronic shifting system requires charging once a year at most. It could probably run two years between charges but I recharge it each winter to be safe.

[Joerg]

Just curious: What would happen if Di2 would run out of juice in the
middle of some Tibetan trails with no electricity in the villages?
Reports say around 1000 miles, depending on how often you need to shift.
On my MTB it would probably be way less because I am often shifting 5-10
times per minute.

http://www.competitivecyclist.com/shimano-ultegra-di2-sm-btr1-67-battery

I guess it would be ok if one schlepps a USB battery to recharge cameras
and whatnot but that's more weight.

[Andre Jute]

Nah, you wouldn't go there with poor Russell's el cheapo cut-down version of the Di2, which only offers assisted shifting. If you want to go there, you'd get a full-auto bike like my Trek Smover, which has the full katootie: full auto shifting (not just assisted shifting like Russell's poorboy version) and electronically controlled active suspension, all of it controlled by a computer y and driven by stepper motors powered by the same hub dynamo (share the love, Jay!) that powers the automatic lamps, which come on at dusk. See http://coolmainpress.com/BICYCLINGsmover.html for a photo-essay that tells the whole story.

Andre Jute
Let's have a minute of commisseration for poor Russell... He just doesn\t have any bike nous.

[Joerg]

Then one fine day "An irrecoverable error has occured. Please park your
bike and call the administrator".

> Andre Jute Let's have a minute of commisseration for poor Russell...
> He just doesn\t have any bike nous.
>

Yeah but ... yours doesn't have a cup holder. That would be a huge no-no
in America. My MTB does :-)

[James]

If one was to have a bicycle equipped with a dynamo, it could be used to
charge the Di2 battery I should think, with a rectifier and voltage
regulator. I believe the Di2 charger produces 8.4V.

But of course you will scoff at the "complexity" of a dynamo, so why
even entertain the thought of Di2 on a MTB in Tibet?

--
JS

[Andre Jute]

Never happened. Mine arrived with a more mundane problem. The designer had all the cables cut short for a "sporty" profile. When I moved the handlebars up, the cables started disassmebling themselves. Trek, to their credit, enthusiastically helped me reengineer the bike to look, feel and work more like the Dutch stadssportief they were clearly aiming for, and missed by a mile because their company ethos isn't commuting but sporting riding.

> > Andre Jute Let's have a minute of commisseration for poor Russell...
> > He just doesn\t have any bike nous.
>
> Yeah but ... yours doesn't have a cup holder. That would be a huge no-no
> in America. My MTB does :-)

You'll be permitted to ride with Scharfie, the pinnacle of yesterday's trendiness. I don't aspire to such certainties. I prefer to set tomorrow's trend, a much more uncertain business with many petty detractors.

Andre Jute

[Andre Jute]

On Wednesday, May 20, 2015 at 11:17:46 PM UTC+1, James wrote to Joerg:

> But of course you will scoff at the "complexity" of a dynamo

Huh? A dynamo is one of the most reliable components on the modern bike. You very rarely hear of even severely abused hub dynamos giving the slightest trouble. It's like the modern sealed bottom bracket or headset, fit and forget. Even the humble, cheap Shimano hub dynamo has an MTBF of 50,000km.

Andre Jute

[James]

I agree. The roller dynamo I retired after many years of service, still
works, but makes a fair racket now because the plain bearings are very
worn. It hasn't catastrophically fail though. My hub dynamo equipped
wheel has been a permanent fixture on my road bike with a B&M IQ-Tec
Premium headlight. (Ok, I swap wheels if and when I race.) I ride that
bike several times a week. Recently that's about 300km weekly. Neither
unit has been any trouble. The wheel bearings show no signs of wear.

But Joerg's recent reply to SMS, along with other posts of his I seem to
recall indicate that to him, a dynamo is a fragile piece of kit.

"Same here. I could buy a front wheel with a hub dyno but it won't be
able power the front light of my mountain bike. Unless I plumb in a hub
motor used as a generator which is just too much work.

I don't mind the charging, it's an almost automatic thing after each
ride (I ride with daytime lights). As an electrical engineer who designs
electronics for a living this may sound odd but I believe less is better
when it comes to electronics in vehicles. On cars that stuff breaks down
all the time, it's just not as good as aircraft electronics (which I
sometimes design). "

Interestingly, car alternators that are far more complex than a bicycle
dynamo, tend to out live numerous car batteries, in my experience.

--
JS

[Frank Krygowski]

On 5/20/2015 8:41 PM, James wrote:
>
>
> I agree. The roller dynamo I retired after many years of service, still
> works, but makes a fair racket now because the plain bearings are very
> worn. It hasn't catastrophically fail though. My hub dynamo equipped
> wheel has been a permanent fixture on my road bike with a B&M IQ-Tec
> Premium headlight. (Ok, I swap wheels if and when I race.) I ride that
> bike several times a week. Recently that's about 300km weekly. Neither
> unit has been any trouble. The wheel bearings show no signs of wear.
>
> But Joerg's recent reply to SMS, along with other posts of his I seem to
> recall indicate that to him, a dynamo is a fragile piece of kit.

I sometimes imagine Joerg might break a hammer if he used it to break
eggshells.

About "fragile" dynamos: They consist of a rotating permanent magnet on
a shaft; some fixed coils of wire; a couple bearings; a housing to hold
the assembly together; and for some models, brackets to mount them or
rollers to drive them. Not much to go wrong.

The antique Union bottle dynamo on one of my bikes started to rattle.
Turns out some rivets holding the body to the mounting bracket had
loosened. I fixed it with some epoxy, since it was easier than mounting
another one. It's perfectly silent again. I'm not sure, but I think
it's about 30 years old.

--
- Frank Krygowski

[Joerg]

On 2015-05-20 5:41 PM, James wrote:
> On 21/05/15 08:28, Andre Jute wrote:
>> On Wednesday, May 20, 2015 at 11:17:46 PM UTC+1, James wrote to Joerg:
>>
>>> But of course you will scoff at the "complexity" of a dynamo
>>
>> Huh? A dynamo is one of the most reliable components on the modern
>> bike. You very rarely hear of even severely abused hub dynamos giving
>> the slightest trouble. It's like the modern sealed bottom bracket or
>> headset, fit and forget. Even the humble, cheap Shimano hub dynamo has
>> an MTBF of 50,000km.
>>
>
> I agree. The roller dynamo I retired after many years of service, still
> works, but makes a fair racket now because the plain bearings are very
> worn. It hasn't catastrophically fail though. My hub dynamo equipped
> wheel has been a permanent fixture on my road bike with a B&M IQ-Tec
> Premium headlight. (Ok, I swap wheels if and when I race.) I ride that
> bike several times a week. Recently that's about 300km weekly. Neither
> unit has been any trouble. The wheel bearings show no signs of wear.
>
> But Joerg's recent reply to SMS, along with other posts of his I seem to
> recall indicate that to him, a dynamo is a fragile piece of kit.
>

Can't remember having said that.

> "Same here. I could buy a front wheel with a hub dyno but it won't be
> able power the front light of my mountain bike. Unless I plumb in a hub
> motor used as a generator which is just too much work.
>

That is what I am saying. Typical bicycle dynamos are not able to keep a
serious 10W front light plus a 1-2W back light lit, certainly not at
places where one must occasionally navigate treacherous terrain at lower
speed. This requires adequate lighting. Out here that is a normal mode
of operation especially in winter. The alternatives would be to walk
your bike or use the car.

> I don't mind the charging, it's an almost automatic thing after each
> ride (I ride with daytime lights). As an electrical engineer who designs
> electronics for a living this may sound odd but I believe less is better
> when it comes to electronics in vehicles. On cars that stuff breaks down
> all the time, it's just not as good as aircraft electronics (which I
> sometimes design). "
>
> Interestingly, car alternators that are far more complex than a bicycle
> dynamo, tend to out live numerous car batteries, in my experience.
>

It depends. I have had cars where that clearly was not the case.
Alternators with good bearings can live a decade or more though but like
bike dynamos their technology is a bit stone age. They require gearing
and thus a lossy belt-pulley system.

A huge difference is that cars including very cheap ones come complete
with a nicely working alternator-battery system. It keeps everything
important running at full brunt even while the alternator doesn't
produce enough power or no power at all. The front lights won't fall
back to candle power or what some call "stand light". You don't need to
pay extra or buy aftermarket parts, it's all included in the base price.
The bicycle industry hasn't figured that out yet, at least not in
affordable fashion.

[jbeattie]

On Wednesday, May 20, 2015 at 10:13:08 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 5/20/2015 8:41 PM, James wrote:
> >
> >
> > I agree. The roller dynamo I retired after many years of service, still
> > works, but makes a fair racket now because the plain bearings are very
> > worn. It hasn't catastrophically fail though. My hub dynamo equipped
> > wheel has been a permanent fixture on my road bike with a B&M IQ-Tec
> > Premium headlight. (Ok, I swap wheels if and when I race.) I ride that
> > bike several times a week. Recently that's about 300km weekly. Neither
> > unit has been any trouble. The wheel bearings show no signs of wear.
> >
> > But Joerg's recent reply to SMS, along with other posts of his I seem to
> > recall indicate that to him, a dynamo is a fragile piece of kit.
>
> I sometimes imagine Joerg might break a hammer if he used it to break
> eggshells.
>
> About "fragile" dynamos: They consist of a rotating permanent magnet on
> a shaft; some fixed coils of wire; a couple bearings; a housing to hold
> the assembly together; and for some models, brackets to mount them or
> rollers to drive them. Not much to go wrong.

But far more to go wrong than a standard front mountain bike hub. I'm not saying they are fragile, but MTBs take a lot of abuse depending on the terrain and thus OS axles and bearings, more complicated seals, etc. I see mountain bikers break stuff all the time -- things that I've never broken on a road bike, and I've broken lots of things on road bikes.

-- Jay Beattie.

[avag...@gmail.com]

MR MORRELL LIVES !

[avag...@gmail.com]

Then it would solve Sir's problem. He can use any other mirror he
chooses to monitor traffic.

nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn



http://www.champnews.com/picture_library/pics/39/01057739.jpg

[AMuzi]

In season this week in Wisconsin:
http://www.morelmushroomhunting.com/switz20031.jpg

[Joerg]

My bike dealers in the various places I lived often greeted me with "So
what broke this time?"

A hub dynamo is in a protected location and should be one of the last
things to break except maybe for the connector. It's just that the ones
for disc brake bikes are expensive yet still have paltry output power.
IOW there isn't enough bang for the buck when compared to a Li-Ion
battery pack. For people who need mor serious lighting the only upside a
dynamo provide is that the battery gets partially recharged during the
ride so you can live with a somewhat smaller battery. That sort of
advantage isn't much to write home about.

[Frank Krygowski]

I've sometimes suspected that mountain biking was invented in order to
sell repair parts.

Honestly, I wouldn't necessarily use a hub dynamo on a mountain bike if
I were still doing gonzo mountain biking. (And even when I was
challenging myself on a mountain bike, I didn't do very much of that at
night.) There are several reasons I think I'd prefer battery lights for
that application.

--
- Frank Krygowski

[Frank Krygowski]

On 5/21/2015 1:13 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>
> In season this week in Wisconsin:
> http://www.morelmushroomhunting.com/switz20031.jpg

We once had precisely ONE morel pop up in our yard. It gave me great
hope, but it's never returned.

Our yard regularly produces puffballs, but they're not very flavorful.


--
- Frank Krygowski

[Joerg]

Several dealers around here said there were two things that kept their
businesses alive:

a. Mountain bikers. They break stuff all the time and they eat tires as
if they were popcorn (I learned about tire wear rather quickly).

b. Fairly clueless buyers of department store bicycles, needing repairs,
adjustments and ... <gasp> ... flat fixes (!).

Back when I was young they'd take away people's man card if they'd let
the shop fix a flat. It was simply unheard of.

After bike paths were being built the steady demise of bike shops
stopped and new shops opened. Except one of the Placerville stores which
didn't make it :-(

But yeah, I have the impression some parts are designed to wear out. I
mean, how can a shock bushing be starting to rattle after only 1000mi
and everyone says that's "normal"?

> Honestly, I wouldn't necessarily use a hub dynamo on a mountain bike if
> I were still doing gonzo mountain biking. (And even when I was
> challenging myself on a mountain bike, I didn't do very much of that at
> night.) There are several reasons I think I'd prefer battery lights for
> that application.
>

I guess you live in the city. Out here you either have an MTB and are
willing to use it also at night or you won't safely reach certain
destinations other than by motor vehicle.

[Joerg]

On 2015-05-19 4:08 AM, Andre Jute wrote:
> On Monday, May 18, 2015 at 11:56:01 PM UTC+1, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
>> I've tried bar end mirrors on my road bikes with drop bars but
>> didn't like the mirrors because my arm blocks the view of them
>> especially if wearing a jacket or bulky clothing. I put a Mirrcycle
>> MTB mirror in my drop bar as a contingency mirror until I could get
>> the proper brake lever mounted one. This Long Weekend (Victoria Day
>> Weekend here in Canada) I discovered that a Mirrcycle mirror
>> located in the end of a dropbar allows one to see the trailer one
>> is pulling. This is great as you not only can see where the trailer
>> is but what's going on on it if you're pulling a pet or children.

>>
>> The advantage of the Mirrcycle mirror in the drop bar end is that
>> the Mirrcycle mirror has an arm/extension that locatess the mirror
>> quite a bit left of where a left hand drop bar mirror is located.
>> This means your arm isn't obscuring the mirror. The mirror can
>> easily be swung inboard to protect it from breakage when the
>> bicycle is parked.
>>

>> Cheers
>
> I wear Bell Metro and Citi helmets, which have a visor with provision
> for a custom helmet arm that folds out and gives you a rear view
> mirror that moves with your head. It's actually quite adequate, but I
> don't use it often because squinting at it gives me a migraine;
> people with eyes less bashed around by an adventurous youth than mine
> do however love it.
>

In more forested areas that kind of stuff flies away, gets torn off.
Often on roads because bushes overhang the shoulders and sometimes bike
lanes.


> ***
>
> The mirror I can't recommend enough is the Cateye 300G race mirror.
> This is a cheap and v ery lightweight barend-plug mirror that you can
> use in a variety of positions. I need my mirror on the right where I
> also have the Rohloff's rotary shifter, and space is generally tight
> on my handlebars because the North Road curves take away a lot of the
> apparent length, so my hand often disturbs the mirror if it points
> up. I use it hanging down and that is, like your installation, very
> convenient because it gives a field of view uninterrupted by my
> jacket, and I'm not going into contortions to see past my sleeve.
> It's a big round mirror but easily moved out of the way.
>
> Because of my history of smashing expensive Zefal Dooback mirrors
> (there's a footbridge I cross almost daily at the bottom of a hill
> where my terminal velocity is over 40kph and there is only an inch of
> spare space on each side between the two entry pillars, with
> predictable results...), I bought half a dozen of these Cateye 300G,
> but I'm only on my second one in seven years, and have given the
> others to pedal pals.
>

Yikes! What would it cost you to slow down before those? Arriving five
seconds late? But ok, who am I to say, doing similar stuff on my MTB.
Except there it's trees and stuff.


> ****
>
> I had a polished stainless steel mirror, domed, which is the only
> kind I could find, and it was a piece of crap that distorted the view
> from behind and made cars right on my heels seem grotesquely far
> back. Dangerous perspective, that. But the fellow I gave it to, who
> never had a mirror before, loved it so much that one day when he lost
> it, despite me offering to give him a better mirror, retraced a hard
> ride to go find his one and only fave mirror. Can't account for
> tastes. But I do think you're wrong, Joerg: image quality, and
> fidelity especially in perspective, counts for quite a lot in a bike
> mirror, to me anyway.
>

One gets used to such distortion. In America one of the outside mirrors
on cars in distorted and consequently has a lawyer repellant label on it
"Objects in mirror are closer than they appear". The advantage of such
mirrors is that you not only see what's behind you but also when some
knucklehead shoots towards you out of a merging lane. Happened to me a
few times. Mostly on my bikes and yesterday in a car. They don't even
use the turn signals.

What brand is that mirror? Does it have a product name that one could
search for?

[Andre Jute]

On Thursday, May 21, 2015 at 9:42:08 PM UTC+1, Joerg wrote:

> What brand is that mirror? Does it have a product name that one could
> search for?

If you mean the stainless mirror, I don't remember. But when the chap I gave it to next comes to cycle with me, I'll inspect it and get the maker's name and model designation for you. Might be a while though.

Andre Jute

[Joerg]

Thanks, Andre. No rush. 80-90% of my cycling is on trails, bike paths
and bike lanes where a mirror isn't too crucial. If a mountain lion gave
chase from behind it would be too late anyhow.

[Andre Jute]

I don't know anything about mountain lions, but the real kind, with a big mane and a bigger roar, is too lazy to go up a mountain, or to chase you. He'll just guide you to where the fast member of the family waits: the female. That Raleigh advertisement with the male lion chasing the cyclist was always fraudulent.

Andre Jute

[Joerg]

Males are lazy, they supposedly sleep around 20h out of the 24h of a
day. With mountain lions it's also the females that are the problem.
We've had a few incidences where it wasn't an attack to protect the cubs
(every MTB rider is aware to look out for such situations) but where
they wer predatory. IOW the people were taken down for food and then
partially eaten.

One of the trails I regularly use has mountain lions. Sometimes their
paw prints are in the mud. Like this one:

http://www.inedc.com/sites/default/files/slider-image/mt-lion.jpg

[avag...@gmail.com]

the image is Walter chasing Marlowe or the Privy Council chasing Walter or the Queen chasing Walter or...?

[Andre Jute]

Nice kitty! Here, have my energy bars!

Andre Jute

[jbeattie]

I'm going to take up a collection to fly Frank to Cameron Park to observe the night riding conditions and report back. I'm sure he could control those roads, and in fact, bitch slap those people scaring you off. Really, though, a lot of your roads have at least some shoulder, long site lines, dry conditions and no tree canopy -- which even in pitch dark conditions (probably common in that area) makes a good rear light very visible from a long distance, particularly with no light clutter from nearby point sources (houses, buildings, etc.). You should get out there with a good L&M rear light (or even two) and your current, bright headlamp and have a friend drive up behind to judge your conspicuity. Twisty roads might present more problems, and I would have to see the road to pass judgment. My twisty roads riding home from work are so narrow and broken that nobody can go all that fast, plus there is some ambient light and an occasional street lamp. James seems to manage on his twisty rural roads in Australia with a dyno, but those Australian drivers might be less blood-thirsty.

I think Larry Cameron would be so disappointed to hear that his community has become the killing fields -- at least at night.

You should get sharrows. You can put them on shitty roads and call them bike routes. This is one on my way to work. http://tinyurl.com/lfxctdk To get there, you go up a short 15-20% climb with a sharrow, which is kind of funny. I keep waiting to see some old Dutch lady grinding up the hill on a 'fiet. The descent down that road is so rough I worry about losing fillings. Another way to turn any road into a bike route is one of those tail lights that project your own, personal bike lane. Try one of those.

-- Jay Beattie.

[Joerg]

A significant risk is accidentally colliding with one, or with another
animal.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGiWHJwhn9k
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3OVw2fjAIc

A friend of one of our neighbors had a full speed head on collision with
a deer on his mountain bike and he didn't survive. I've had a few close
calls, usually with large deer sleeping under bushes, getting startled
by me and then bolting across the trail. I am thankful that modern
bicycles have hydraulic disc brakes and can almost stop on a dime. That
saved the day more than once.

[Sir Ridesalot]

If it's so darn dangerous where you ride then why do you bother riding as it can't be enjoyable if you're thinking you might die any second along the way?
e
As far as animals go; it's a very simple matter to put some kind of nois maker on the bike. Jeeze, even a piece of stiff yet flexible nylon on the fork and hitting the spokes will make enough noise for most animals to be aware of your approach long before you get close to them.

Maybe what you need is to mount a couple of LAWs* on the front of your bike?

*Light Anti-tank Weapon

Cheers

[avag...@gmail.com]

-- Jay Beattie.

.......


COMMENTS ON RIDING/DROUGHT ?

[Andre Jute]

I can easily believe a downhiller can kill himself by collding with an animal, and it needn't even be very large.

In the Orange Free State -- long straight roads -- in the middle of the night, driving flat out, I hit a black horse at around 120mph. The impact ripped the top off the XK150 Jag and deposited the horse's gut in our laps. A policeman who came to visit me in hospital told me opinion in the station was that the horse's gut worked like a cushioning effect, otherwise my passenger and I would both have been dead.

Andre Jute

[Joerg]

On 2015-05-22 10:45 AM, jbeattie wrote:
> On Thursday, May 21, 2015 at 12:42:29 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
>> On 2015-05-21 12:12 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>> On 5/21/2015 10:35 AM, jbeattie wrote:
>>>> On Wednesday, May 20, 2015 at 10:13:08 PM UTC-7, Frank
>>>> Krygowski wrote:
>>>>> On 5/20/2015 8:41 PM, James wrote:
>>>>>>

[...]

>>> Honestly, I wouldn't necessarily use a hub dynamo on a mountain
>>> bike if I were still doing gonzo mountain biking. (And even when
>>> I was challenging myself on a mountain bike, I didn't do very
>>> much of that at night.) There are several reasons I think I'd
>>> prefer battery lights for that application.
>>>
>>
>> I guess you live in the city. Out here you either have an MTB and
>> are willing to use it also at night or you won't safely reach
>> certain destinations other than by motor vehicle.
>
> I'm going to take up a collection to fly Frank to Cameron Park to
> observe the night riding conditions and report back. I'm sure he
> could control those roads, and in fact, bitch slap those people

> scaring you off. ...


It's kind of tough to bitch-slap the soused redneck in the old pickup
truck from inside a coroner's van. Because that's where "taking a
prominent lane position" can end out here, and has for some people.


> ... Really, though, a lot of your roads have at least
> some shoulder, ...


That's the problem, part of Durock Road and a lot of Mother Lode Drive
do not. Those would be the roads to Placerville where bicycles are
allowed. On Highway 50 they are not allowed. Mother Lode Drive on a
bicycle late in the evening would amount to a suicide mission so people
don't do that. Towards West it has improved, Green Valley Road has a
more or less acceptable shoulder from here to Folsom. That's actually
why I began bicycling after a more than 15 year hiatus (before it just
wasn't safe).


> ... long site lines, dry conditions and no tree canopy --

> which even in pitch dark conditions (probably common in that area)
> makes a good rear light very visible from a long distance,
> particularly with no light clutter from nearby point sources (houses,
> buildings, etc.). You should get out there with a good L&M rear light
> (or even two) and your current, bright headlamp and have a friend
> drive up behind to judge your conspicuity. Twisty roads might present
> more problems, and I would have to see the road to pass judgment. My
> twisty roads riding home from work are so narrow and broken that
> nobody can go all that fast, plus there is some ambient light and an
> occasional street lamp. James seems to manage on his twisty rural
> roads in Australia with a dyno, but those Australian drivers might be
> less blood-thirsty.
>

Both of my ships are well lit. Doesn't make a difference when an
inattentive or soused driver approaches from behind. Example:

http://www.news10.net/story/news/2014/01/27/4954487/

> I think Larry Cameron would be so disappointed to hear that his
> community has become the killing fields -- at least at night.
>

He would be mighty disappointed about the people in office here. IMHO
they are not doing a good job for the community. Cameron Park is not a
bike friendly village. When inquiring about a traffic light that won't
ever turn green on a bicycle until a car is behind you they didn't even
bother to answer.

Bike lanes? Forget it. Only if they have to and then only the stretch
where they have to. Therefore, very few people ride bicycles out here.
Very different in Folsom which has an excellent network of bike paths
and lanes. Consequently, lots of cyclists there.

> You should get sharrows. You can put them on shitty roads and call
> them bike routes. This is one on my way to work.
> http://tinyurl.com/lfxctdk To get there, you go up a short 15-20%
> climb with a sharrow, which is kind of funny. I keep waiting to see
> some old Dutch lady grinding up the hill on a 'fiet. The descent down
> that road is so rough I worry about losing fillings. Another way to
> turn any road into a bike route is one of those tail lights that
> project your own, personal bike lane. Try one of those.
>

Nah, I just use the trail. That's why I bought a full suspension
mountain bike which allows me to ride at a decent speed even on rough
turf. I never use my road bike going east. But I do to the west, just
came back from a 43 mile ride.

[John B.]

On Fri, 22 May 2015 23:57:30 +0100, Phil W Lee <ph...@lee-family.me.uk>
wrote:

>James <james.e...@gmail.com> considered Thu, 21 May 2015 10:41:40

>+1000 the perfect time to write:
>
>>On 21/05/15 08:28, Andre Jute wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, May 20, 2015 at 11:17:46 PM UTC+1, James wrote to Joerg:
>>>
>>>> But of course you will scoff at the "complexity" of a dynamo
>>>
>>> Huh? A dynamo is one of the most reliable components on the modern bike. You very rarely hear of even severely abused hub dynamos giving the slightest trouble. It's like the modern sealed bottom bracket or headset, fit and forget. Even the humble, cheap Shimano hub dynamo has an MTBF of 50,000km.
>>>
>>

>>I agree. The roller dynamo I retired after many years of service, still
>>works, but makes a fair racket now because the plain bearings are very
>>worn. It hasn't catastrophically fail though. My hub dynamo equipped
>>wheel has been a permanent fixture on my road bike with a B&M IQ-Tec
>>Premium headlight. (Ok, I swap wheels if and when I race.) I ride that
>>bike several times a week. Recently that's about 300km weekly. Neither
>>unit has been any trouble. The wheel bearings show no signs of wear.
>>
>>But Joerg's recent reply to SMS, along with other posts of his I seem to
>>recall indicate that to him, a dynamo is a fragile piece of kit.
>>

>>"Same here. I could buy a front wheel with a hub dyno but it won't be
>>able power the front light of my mountain bike. Unless I plumb in a hub
>>motor used as a generator which is just too much work.
>>

>>I don't mind the charging, it's an almost automatic thing after each
>>ride (I ride with daytime lights). As an electrical engineer who designs
>>electronics for a living this may sound odd but I believe less is better
>>when it comes to electronics in vehicles. On cars that stuff breaks down
>>all the time, it's just not as good as aircraft electronics (which I
>>sometimes design). "
>>
>>Interestingly, car alternators that are far more complex than a bicycle
>>dynamo, tend to out live numerous car batteries, in my experience.
>

>Heck, it's not all that uncommon for them to outlast the engines!
>They recycle perfectly good ones for the materials at car breakers,
>because the demand is never as high as the supply.
>And hub dynamos on bikes don't really wear out much - they do get
>damaged, either by collisions or (more often) ham-fisted home
>"mechanics", or die of disuse.

In Singapore there is a company that sells "repaired", or perhaps the
term is "remanufactured", alternators for about half the price of a
new one; with a one year guarantee.

I once asked what, in general, did they do to "re-manufacture" the
alternators and the technician said that they cleaned and inspected
them and frequently changed the "brushes" and occasionally the
regulator or the diodes. No mention of bearings or windings although I
suspect that they must have inspect them with the one year guarantee
and all.

Too bad the rest of the car couldn't be built to last as well :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

[David Scheidt]

John B. <johnbs...@gmail.com> wrote:
:On Fri, 22 May 2015 23:57:30 +0100, Phil W Lee <ph...@lee-family.me.uk>

The remanufactured alternators I used to install (I've installed
hundreds of them) were sandblasted case, new brushes, new regulators,
new diodes, new bearings, inspected stator windings, inspected rotors,
new fastening hardware, and often new conectors and pulleys.

They typicaly cost about 1/3 the cost of a new unit, but cheaper
alternators were coser to 1/2. Most of the alternators I replaced
could have been repaired with new diodes or brushes, but if you're
paying a shop to do it, it's not economical, and the reman part is
likely to last the life of the vehicle.

--
sig 106

[Frank Krygowski]

On 5/22/2015 8:29 PM, Joerg wrote:
> On 2015-05-22 10:45 AM, jbeattie wrote:
>>
>> I'm going to take up a collection to fly Frank to Cameron Park to
>> observe the night riding conditions and report back. I'm sure he
>> could control those roads, and in fact, bitch slap those people
>> scaring you off. ...
>
>
> It's kind of tough to bitch-slap the soused redneck in the old pickup
> truck from inside a coroner's van. Because that's where "taking a
> prominent lane position" can end out here, and has for some people.

Golly, another "It sure is dangerous where _I_ ride!" post.

Look, it may be dangerous. I've ridden on some very nasty roads in
various cities and states. But really - "can end in a coroner's van" is
pretty meaningless. Over 30,000 motorists are killed each year, vs.
about 730 bicyclists. What value of "can" are you talking about?

Speaking of dangerous places: Over the years, on this and other
discussion groups, I've frequently read about how horrible Boston is for
cycling. Well, my wife and I just hosted a couple of touring cyclists
who had lived in Boston. They said Boston was great for cycling, but
that of course, you had to control the lane. The nice part, they said,
was that the city streets were so narrow that it was obvious to any
motorist why you were controlling the lane.

So as is often the case, we have some people quaking in fear, and we
have other people experiencing no great problem; and the ones
experiencing no great problem are the ones who ride their bikes as
legitimate vehicle operators. The fearful ones are dreaming about bike
lanes and worse.

--
- Frank Krygowski

[Frank Krygowski]

On 5/22/2015 10:26 PM, John B. wrote:
>
> In Singapore there is a company that sells "repaired", or perhaps the
> term is "remanufactured", alternators for about half the price of a
> new one; with a one year guarantee.
>
> I once asked what, in general, did they do to "re-manufacture" the
> alternators and the technician said that they cleaned and inspected
> them and frequently changed the "brushes" and occasionally the
> regulator or the diodes. No mention of bearings or windings although I
> suspect that they must have inspect them with the one year guarantee
> and all.

Thoroughly off-topic, but as long as we're talking electricity, rotating
machinery, windings and such:

My Craftsman radial arm saw's 220V single phase motor recently bit the
dust. It wasn't the starting capacitor or centrifugal switch, i.e. the
easy things.

Thing was: Instead of starting smoothly, it buzzed like crazy as it
started, then if it started at all, usually (19 times out of 20) ran
roughly and _backwards_.

I couldn't figure it out, and neither could about five motor repair guys
I talked to. And I couldn't find a rewind shop near me.

Ultimately, I just found a used saw on Craigslist for less than half the
cost of a replacement motor. I traded motors and I'm back sawing. But
I'm still curious. Any clues on what would cause such a motor to run in
reverse?

--
- Frank Krygowski

[Frank Krygowski]

On 5/22/2015 11:23 PM, David Scheidt wrote:
> Most of the alternators I replaced
> could have been repaired with new diodes or brushes, but if you're
> paying a shop to do it, it's not economical, and the reman part is
> likely to last the life of the vehicle.

Years ago, when money was really tight, the starter on my Honda Civic
began to fail to crank. Nothing happened beyond a solenoid click.

Couldn't replace just the solenoid. They wanted to sell me a complete
motor.

I took the starter off and inspected. A heavy copper contact was worn,
and barely contacting. I procured some heavy copper sheet for something
like fifteen cents, fabricated a new contact, and drove the car for many
more years.

But no shop mechanic would ever undertake such a project, I'm sure.


--
- Frank Krygowski

[Frank Krygowski]

On 5/22/2015 7:21 PM, Andre Jute wrote:
> On Friday, May 22, 2015 at 6:57:33 PM UTC+1, Joerg wrote:
>>
> In the Orange Free State -- long straight roads -- in the middle of the night, driving flat out, I hit a black horse at around 120mph. The impact ripped the top off the XK150 Jag and deposited the horse's gut in our laps. A policeman who came to visit me in hospital told me opinion in the station was that the horse's gut worked like a cushioning effect, otherwise my passenger and I would both have been dead.

Incredible!


--
- Frank Krygowski

[Sir Ridesalot]

On Friday, May 22, 2015 at 11:43:00 PM UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 5/22/2015 10:26 PM, John B. wrote:
> >
> > In Singapore there is a company that sells "repaired", or perhaps the
> > term is "remanufactured", alternators for about half the price of a
> > new one; with a one year guarantee.
> >
> > I once asked what, in general, did they do to "re-manufacture" the
> > alternators and the technician said that they cleaned and inspected
> > them and frequently changed the "brushes" and occasionally the
> > regulator or the diodes. No mention of bearings or windings although I
> > suspect that they must have inspect them with the one year guarantee
> > and all.
>
> Thoroughly off-topic,
>

> --
> - Frank Krygowski

This thread went thoroughly off-topic a long time ago. VBG LOL ;<)

[Ralph Barone]

If the start cap and centrifugal switch were OK, then the start winding
must have opened up. Without the start winding, there is no rotating
magnetic field from the stator, and so there is no torque (nasty buzz
because the motor is essentially stalled) until the motor starts to rotate.
The motor can eventually start turning either way, at which point it should
slowly (because of less torque from no start winding) and hopefully spin up
to normal speed.

[David Scheidt]

Ralph Barone <addre...@invalid.invalid> wrote:

I wouldn't do it with a saw (!!), but you can give the motor a nudge,
and it'll start. This is a pretty common failure, I think. Cap and
switch faiures are more common, but still, something a repair guy
should know. (Even if the answer for him is 'replace whole motor'.)

--
sig 17

[Andy K]

>
> My bike dealers in the various places I lived often greeted me with "So
> what broke this time?"

You need to find a new bike dealer.

No need to put up with pis* poor attitude.

Andy

[John B.]

Over here labor is still cheap enough that things get repaired. I took
my old Isuzu pickup down to Isuzu. I says "the alternator don't charge
all the time". the Mechanic says , "Ayup, you want us to fix it now"?
I did and he did. Because of the way the alternator is fitted I
suspect that he spent more time getting it out and back than replacing
the brushes. Cost was, if I remember, about $10.00 with free coffee
and television and an air conditioned waiting room :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

[John B.]

Perhaps no shop mechanic, but I've certainly done it. In fact you can
usually take the heavy copper "washer" off the solenoid shaft and just
flip it over and use the back sides. I've done it because I was cheap
and like you didn't want to buy a complete solenoid and I also did it
once, out in the jungles of Iran Jaya in order to get a bulldozer back
out of the swamp before the water rose. (Many browney points for that
little job :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

[John B.]

I don't know for sure but I would guess that you had a shorted
winding.

But do you still have rewind shops in America? In about 1970 - 71 I
took a 1/2 H.P. single phase motor to a rewind shop in Riverside
California and the guy says, "what you want me to do with this". I
says, "fix it." He says, "Buy a new one". Further discussion showed
that I could buy a brand spanking new 1/2 H.P. motor from Sears
cheaper then repairing the old one. and that was 40 years ago.

(The guy did check the motor and told me to change the starting
capacitor and gave me a new one ).
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Frank Krygowski]

I did try several times to start the motor (with blade removed) by
winding a cord around the arbor and pulling it, as one would start a
lawn mower. Oddly, it still reversed. This electricity stuff is black
magic!

I never did take the thing to a rewind shop, mostly because I couldn't
find one; then I found the used saw, so its motor solved my problem.

A good friend of mine lives about an hour away. He's a small-scale
building contractor and a Model A Ford freak. He's had Ford starters
rewound, and he's expressing interest in the remains of the Craigslist
saw. I imagine that he'll get it sorted out.


--
- Frank Krygowski

[Frank Krygowski]

On 5/23/2015 9:31 AM, John B. wrote:
>
> Over here labor is still cheap enough that things get repaired. I took
> my old Isuzu pickup down to Isuzu. I says "the alternator don't charge
> all the time". the Mechanic says , "Ayup, you want us to fix it now"?
> I did and he did. Because of the way the alternator is fitted I
> suspect that he spent more time getting it out and back than replacing
> the brushes. Cost was, if I remember, about $10.00 with free coffee
> and television and an air conditioned waiting room :-)

Sometimes that happens even in America.

Just a few years ago, my wife and I were driving back from a long
vacation in Utah. As we pulled into a campground outside a tiny
Nebraska town, the exhaust pipe on our Pontiac Vibe broke in two at its
end clamp. We still had hundreds of miles to drive.

Next morning, I phoned the local car dealer. Yes, they could get the
pipe, but it would take two days and cost $400.

It looked to me like only the welded joint between the clamp and pipe
had failed. If I were home, I'd have welded it myself. So I asked "Is
there a welder anywhere in town?" The dealer's parts person transferred
me to the repair shop, and the repair foreman said "bring it in."

What followed was a series of frustrations. They had recently added on
to the repair shop, but the building wiring wasn't up to snuff. The MIG
welder was acting up even when it wasn't blowing breakers. They were
trying to weld the parts without dropping the entire exhaust system off
the car, but having trouble keeping the parts aligned. The breakers
tripped again and again, eventually taking down the company's computer
system. The foreman himself had to take over the welding, since he knew
the MIG unit's quirks. Astonishingly, they let me stand with them under
my car, to help hold pieces in alignment. Altogether, it probably took
over an hour and a half to get the thing fixed.

They charged me $35, and threw in a free car wash.

I returned 20 minutes after I left, with donuts for the entire crew.
Seemed like the least I could do. And BTW, they were still trying to
reboot their computer network.

Oh, and once back home, our next door neighbors (who are from that
state) said "Oh yes. Nebraska people are like that."

--
- Frank Krygowski

[David Scheidt]

John B. <johnbs...@gmail.com> wrote:
:On Fri, 22 May 2015 23:42:57 -0400, Frank Krygowski

There are motor rebuilding shops. There is a definate market for repairing
motors that are either large or old and non-standard. Anything else
is not worth fixing, because a good quality replacement is cheaper.


--
sig 25

[Joerg]

Hey, they were kidding. One has to keep a sense of humor. And they knew
I am hard on equipment, going offroad a lot.

[Joerg]

Same thing happened on my wife's Toyota Corolla. There you could buy
just the contacts. I had to let the shop do it because Toyota hid the
starter in a place where my arms were too thick to reach. I'd have to
lose a lot of muscle mass for that. Beats me why they do such things, on
older models it was located towards the front and easily reachable.

[Andre Jute]

I live in a really small town but, significantly, it is a country town, with lots of working farms around. There's been a rewinder in town here since before I arrived, 35 years ago. The shop is always very busy with rewinds for farm machinery and local industry; in addition there's a specialist auto electrician who'll rewind iron when he isn't turning kids' cars into mobile boomboxes. When I wanted someone to order me some specialist capacitors for thermionic tube amp, the rewinder introduced me to a component rep who came around, and the rep told me that every little country town still has a rewinder. I dunno why Franki-boy couldn't find one. Maybe he's incompetent with the Yellow Pages.

Andre Jute