campy record confusion;
Michael Hamilton
I see references to Campagnolo "Super Record" in some articles. Is there
a difference between these components and the "Record C" group? Are there
Campy parts made that are not ever sold through "Excel", "Colorado
Cyclist", etc.?
Thank you.
-Michael
---
Michael Trent Hamilton ParcPlace Boulder, Inc.
ha
>
> I see references to Campagnolo "Super Record" in some articles. Is there
> a difference between these components and the "Record C" group? Are there
> Campy parts made that are not ever sold through "Excel", "Colorado
> Cyclist", etc.?
Kinda confusing huh?
In the old days there used to be:
Record
Nuovo Record
Super Record
and then came C Record (which subsequently became just plain Record).
C Record took over as Campy's top of the line grouppo. As far as I know,
(the old) Record, Nuovo Record, and Super Record are no longer made
(hence the comment if you read my recent article about some smart-ass
saying that my Merckx with Super Record should be in a museum!).
Now, of course, there are all sorts of groups around like Chorus,
Record, um... I can't think of any more off the top of my head... Veloce?
There used to be Croce d'Aune (I think this one lasted only about a year
or two).
Later,
-A
--
========================================================================
Anthony Hall "...the whole alphabet soup
aeh...@netcom.com of spookdom." -Marcinko
========================================================================
Thomas H. Kunich
almost always called the top of the line group The Record group.
Early Record -- Cranks recognizeable because the 'small' ring was
limited to a 48 or 49. Still, it was professional quality.
Nuevo Record -- Great improvement and most of this stuff is still
on the road. They changed their crank bolt pattern so that you
could 'wimp' out and use a 42. God, how un-manly.
Super Record -- extremely high quality stuff. It was meant to be even
lighter than the "New Record" and had some titanium bits and pieces. Should
you run across the extremely rare titanium bottom bracket spindle DO NOT
use it, since they broke at a funny glance. This stuff is easily
the best friction shifting group I've ever used. It is so good that I
don't miss indexing at all and now use it for some 75% of my riding.
The shifting is improved with the Simplex/Mavic retrofriction shifters.
These units have a small barrel/wrapup so they are incredably light to the
touch.
Record (usually differentiated from the original Record by calling this
group C-Record). The latest and greatest from Campagnolo. Too bad they
charge too much and don't supply replacement parts like the older
company. If you destroy that which attracts customers you will probably
lose their loyalty and gain only the fad market which is notoriously
fickle.
Campagnolo makes fine equipment. There is no argument about that point.
The quality of the bearings and races in particular are demonstrated by
Record hubs 20 years old that are smoother running than new equipment
from other manufacturers. Their problems lie in not addressing the
market as enthusiasts, but as businessmen. While you have to have good
business sense to survive, when you are at the upper end of the market
you also need the hearts and brand loyalty of your customers.
When you ignore breaking cranks, don't bother to supply spare parts for
rebuildable equipment, and make it difficult for small shops to obtain
any parts at all, you are bound to lose that certain something that
Campagnolo was always known for -- love of the sport.
For all of Shimanos faults, they build excellent equipment and if they
have the same problems as Campi, at least they are charging 2/3rds the
levy.
Geoffrey Hall
>Record (usually differentiated from the original Record by calling this
>group C-Record). The latest and greatest from Campagnolo. Too bad they
I view C-Record as being a new luxury line, for the consumer who will buy
the slickest, most expensive model of a product, whatever it is (now you
know I'm over the hill, to consider C-Record new). I first started
noticing this marketing approach being taken by Campy with the Delta
brakes. I'm not saying that C-Record isn't good, but I think the modern
Chorus group is fairly comparable in quality to the former Nuovo- and
Super Record groups (which really only differed cosmetically, in many
respects).
Geoff (Speaking for myself, not my employer)
Harry Phinney
: Early Record -- Cranks recognizeable because the 'small' ring was
: limited to a 48 or 49. Still, it was professional quality.
The old Record small ring was limited to 44 teeth. The machined lands
for the chainrings stayed the same diameter for Nuovo Record, and just
the bolt holes moved inward to accept rings down to 42 teeth. Campy did
for awhile supply 41 tooth Nuovo Record rings which just barely worked.
The Nuovo Record track (pista) group continued to use the 44 tooth
minimum bolt circle. The track cranks finally started accepting the 42
tooth rings as of the Super Record group.
: Super Record -- extremely high quality stuff. It was meant to be even
: lighter than the "New Record" and had some titanium bits and pieces. Should
: you run across the extremely rare titanium bottom bracket spindle DO NOT
: use it, since they broke at a funny glance.
Super Record only included the Ti stuff for the first few years, during
which time it was also available in the "Pro" variant which deleted the
Ti bits. The original Super Record pedal spindles were also Ti and
tended to break. The Ti hub axles generally worked OK, and were
non-fatal when they failed. The Super Record rear derailleur originally
came with Ti fixing and pivot bolts, but these were later changed to
(lighter) Al versions.
Harry Phinney ha...@cv.hp.com
Campy
Christopher Martin Ashley
few years (I didn't want to copy and edit at 2400 baud )
Heres what Croce D'Aune was : The only components that it had unique to
itself were the crankset, the hubset, bottom bracket, and the Croce
version of the delta brakes, and the rear derailleur.
The headset, seatpost, and front derailleur were taken from the Chorus
line of components.
With the introduction of the 8spd components, the Croce/Chorus hubset
became one, and the rear derailleur for Croce was the Chorus model.
When Croce was dropped, I believe that the Croce crankset became the
Chorus crank with the built in extractor. The brakeset was dropped (praise
the lord)
I had this group for 2 years and it worked great in the time I had it.
Basically Croce D'Aune was 'Fake C-Record' or so it was called here :)
The rear derailleur on Croce was actually supposed to work better than the
C-Record..
Oh well just a quick analysis on what was Campagnolos 2nd line group.
o/
___o ___o ___o ___o |
_'\ <_ _'\ <_ _'\ <_ _'\ <_ _'\ _
(_)/ (_) (_)/ (_) (_)/ (_) (_)/ (_) (_)/ (_)
The only thing better than Campagnolo is Campagnolo.
Chris Ashley, Team Sports Experts
umas...@ccu.umanitoba.ca
Richard Engelbrecht-Wiggans
ha...@cv.hp.com (Harry Phinney) writes:
>Thomas H. Kunich (to...@netcom.com) wrote:
>: Early Record -- Cranks recognizeable because the 'small' ring was
>: limited to a 48 or 49. Still, it was professional quality.
>
>The old Record small ring was limited to 44 teeth. The machined lands
>for the chainrings stayed the same diameter for Nuovo Record, and just
>the bolt holes moved inward to accept rings down to 42 teeth. Campy did
>for awhile supply 41 tooth Nuovo Record rings which just barely worked.
work at least as well as the 41 teeth rings if you are
carefull to put the holes in the right place wrt to the
teeth; since 40 is divisible by five--unlike 41--each
hole could be located similarly wrt to the teeth and the
chain ends up nesting nicely on top of the mounting bolts.
..Richard E+17
Harry Wolfson
confusion when trying to identify the different models.
Why doesn't Campanola mark their components with the model name? When I
look at Campy equiped bikes at my local shop, I can't tell whether the
parts are Athena or Record. Is there some subtle (or secret) identifying
mark that I haven't noticed, or does one have to _know_ the different
models in order to identify them from each other.
Harry Wolfson
wol...@ll.mit.edu
Tad A Martin
: I've got a general (maybe naive) question about Campy parts and my
: Harry Wolfson
: wol...@ll.mit.edu
If you haven't found a difference between Athena and Record, you
haven't looked hard enough, at least as far as the crank goes. The Record
crank has a "hidden" spider arm obscured by the crank arm when looked at
from the side. The Chorus and Athena are a different story unless you
take the time to disassemble the BB, I believe the Athena spindle is black
as opposed to the Chorus' silver polished one. As for the derailleurs,
the chorus has a cut out pulley cage as opposed to the Athena's solid one
(I believe the Chorus is also machined from lighter alloy?) I don't know
about the front derailleur, I still have a super record one, and those are
very distinctive. Hope I helped!
J. Lee
>In article <CJJH5...@boulder.parcplace.com> m...@boulder.parcplace.com (Michael Hamilton) writes:
>>
>> I see references to Campagnolo "Super Record" in some articles. Is there
>> a difference between these components and the "Record C" group? Are there
>> Campy parts made that are not ever sold through "Excel", "Colorado
>> Cyclist", etc.?
The only current (1994) components using the "Super Record"
designation are rear hubs that use alloy cassette bodies
(available in the Bora/Shamal wheels, as well as the hub
unlaced).
Mitek Systems
Actually, the components you descriobe are "Super Leggera" (sp?) There
are no current Super Record parts.
shane
j...@miteksys.com
JAMES COPP
: ed...@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (J. Lee) writes:
: shane
: j...@miteksys.com
Actually Super Record is the stuff that Merckx and the boys won everything
but the kitchen sink on. C-Record supplanted and then replaced it as
Campagnolo's flagship line. Superleggera as far as I know was the
alternative to the Super Record quill pedals. The Nuovo Record group was
replaced by Super Record, but not everyone could afford (if they were
Bernard Hinault for example) the dubious reliability of the Super Record
titanium pedal spindles. Thus came Supperleggera, which were the Super
Record bodies with Nuovo Record Spindles - really not much different
from the original Nuovo Record items.
By the way, in my opinion Super Record was the best group
ever made (I'll duck now). I put 25000 miles on one set of
bearings -hubs and all, and much of it through Canadian
winters. Something about those Campy guys knowing how
to heat treat a bearing race back then.
Hope the info helped
Harry Phinney
: Actually Super Record is the stuff that Merckx and the boys won everything
: but the kitchen sink on.
Merckx's pro career and winnings began well before the introduction of
the Super Record group.
: Superleggera as far as I know was the
: alternative to the Super Record quill pedals.
This is not entirely accurate. The Superleggera pedals were introduced
prior to the Super Record group, and were available in both road
("quill") style and track style. They were an alloy-caged version of
the Record pedal (I don't think the pedals were ever termed Nuovo
Record, and the same was true of the hubs as these parts were unchanged
from the original Record group). These pedals continued to be available
in the Super Record group as an alternative to the Ti-spindled version.
Harry Phinney ha...@cv.hp.com
Tim Smith
>Also I once upon a time saw a high-low flanged rear hub from Campy.
>Threaded side was the large flange I think (this was many years ago)
>has anyone else seen such an animal?
Hmm, hang on a minute...(goes down to garage...peers around among
no-longer-used stuff)...
Yes, the threaded side was the large flange. When I bought this
curiosity piece, back in the dark ages (AKA the 1970s), the bike shop
owner who sold it to me told me that they were designed for being able
to change a spoke without removing your freewheel.
Well, perhaps. As long as you use those popular 12-12-12-12-12-12
freewheels.
Seriously, I have no idea what these hubs were designed for. Perhaps
they were a result of some misguided sense of wheel design. I believe
that Jobst here has said that having a large flange on the FW side
makes no difference in wheel strength. Perhaps someone at Campy had a
different opinion?
--Tim (tss...@netcom.com)
Dennis Davis
> By the way, in my opinion Super Record was the best group
> ever made (I'll duck now). I put 25000 miles on one set of
> bearings -hubs and all, and much of it through Canadian
> winters. Something about those Campy guys knowing how
> to heat treat a bearing race back then.
Huh ! Not so much of the past tense, if you don't mind. Us true
believers will be silently sailing to nirvana while the indexed
heathens are still cycling in the wilderness. We'll be on Campagnolo
Record hubs and using classic Super Record gear mechanisms. There
will always be a tail wind, we'll be on smooth roads and we'll have
time to smell the flowers on the way ...
--
Dennis Davis, BUCS, University of Bath, Bath, BA2 7AY, UK
D.H....@bath.ac.uk
William Kellagher
And there will always be a broken axel in your rear hub! ;^)
Bill Kellagher
Boulder Colorado
America's Bicycling Theme Park
******* Speaking for myself, not StorageTek ******
My REAL email address is william_...@stortek.com (at least
that's what the postmaster says)
Home Phone: (303) 530-2586
Work Phone: (303) 673-8902
Snail Mail: 6545 Kalua Rd #302, Boulder CO 80301
James W Gourgoutis
>JAMES COPP writes:
>>Also I once upon a time saw a high-low flanged rear hub from Campy.
>>Threaded side was the large flange I think (this was many years ago)
>>has anyone else seen such an animal?
>
Um, I *think* that this was designed so that you could use the same length
spokes on both sides of the wheel. I could be wrong though.
--
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James Gourgoutis [sko...@pitt.edu] -- _,o "Why am I so late?
Graduate School of Mechanical Engineering -- -\<, I couldn't decide
University of Pittsburgh / Pittsburgh, PA -- ( )/( ) which bike to ride!"