Cheap Winter Tires

[Tom Kunich]

For the next several hours BikeTiresDirect.com is selling Gatorskins at 2019 prices. I suppose to clean out the older inventory.

This is a good deal and if you need tires or keep around an extra set like I do jump at it.

[Roger Merriman]

Good deals though I never really got folks interest in Gatorskins due to
their traction or lack of it!

Bar wheelspining the bike on any surface on wet day at wim!

Roger Merriman

[Tom Kunich]

The traction of the gatorskin is only slightly lessb that the GP5000 and is effected more by the ridged carcus more than the rubber compound.

[sms]

On 2/8/2024 3:04 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:

<snip>

> Good deals though I never really got folks interest in Gatorskins due to
> their traction or lack of it!

Exactly. Why would Gatorskins be a good winter tire since they are
notoriously bad in terms of traction on wet roads? They have good
puncture resistance but high rolling resistance.

There are other tires with tread and rubber compound that are good for
wet roads and that also have good puncture resistance (which is
apparently necessary, to one person, due to Joe Biden).

The Continental Grand Prix 4 Season would be a better choice
<https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001EC2LKU>.

--
“If you are not an expert on a subject, then your opinions about it
really do matter less than the opinions of experts. It's not
indoctrination nor elitism. It's just that you don't know as much as
they do about the subject.”—Tin Foil Awards

[Frank Krygowski]

Gatorskins on our tandem have done very well for years. I don't think
I've ever flatted one.

I can't judge the wet weather traction, though. Since I don't want to
scare my wife, I don't push the traction envelope on the tandem; and
we've rarely ridden it in the wet.

--
- Frank Krygowski

[Roger Merriman]

They are notorious for it, remember you live somewhere with a dry
environment, I don’t the gators could be spun up at ease, the 4seasons like
most decent tires only if one really provoked them.

Roger Merriman

[Roger Merriman]

sms <scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:
> On 2/8/2024 3:04 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>> Good deals though I never really got folks interest in Gatorskins due to
>> their traction or lack of it!
>
> Exactly. Why would Gatorskins be a good winter tire since they are
> notoriously bad in terms of traction on wet roads? They have good
> puncture resistance but high rolling resistance.
>
> There are other tires with tread and rubber compound that are good for
> wet roads and that also have good puncture resistance (which is
> apparently necessary, to one person, due to Joe Biden).
>
> The Continental Grand Prix 4 Season would be a better choice
> <https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001EC2LKU>.
>

That was my go to back in the day I’ve not ridden either for a while who
knows maybe they have improved though seems unlikely.

Roger Merriman

[Frank Krygowski]

On 2/8/2024 11:58 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 2/8/2024 6:04 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
>> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> For the next several hours BikeTiresDirect.com is selling Gatorskins at
>>> 2019 prices. I suppose to clean out the older inventory.
>>>
>>> This is a good deal and if you need tires or keep around an extra set
>>> like I do jump at it.
>>>
>>
>> Good deals though I never really got folks interest in Gatorskins due to
>> their traction or lack of it!
>>
>> Bar wheelspining the bike on any surface on wet day at wim!
>
> Gatorskins on our tandem have done very well for years. I don't think
> I've ever flatted one.

Correction! I remember we got a rear tire flat on the very first mile of
the very first tandem ride of 2023! We just jumped on the bike for a
quick ride with a friend on a sudden nice day, and I didn't check the
bike out. Having gotten the flat, I was embarrassed about how worn the
rear tire was. We returned home and continued the ride on singles.

--
- Frank Krygowski

[Roger Merriman]

They do if memory serves last which is why your probably not the first or
last this happened to, the Big Apples I get 5/8k normally replace when they
look too ropy or have punctured and I suspect it’s age than just something
got though!

I have once ripped a side wall as they have lightweight sidewalls and wee
bit of glass/gravel found its mark! Probably due to my enthusiastic
cornering ie banked over!

Roger Merriman

[Tom Kunich]

I ridden Gatorskins in all weather conditions and I certainly never found them as having bad traction on wet roads. The only place I ever lost traction was on glare ice. And they caught traction before leaving the road. The problem with them is that they have a rigid casing and THAT means that they don't have traction around here as well as racing tires which bend around road imperfections better.

For people that put in miles on bad pavement and possible flats from road debris you can't beat them. Their weaknesses are goat's head thorns on the late warm season and that disappears with the first rains. And lately people without money running their tires down to the casings and shedding steel belt materials.

As an almost indestructible training tire they are very hard to beat. And picking up a pair for $39.99 each made them even better.

[Tom Kunich]

I rarely go wild banking the bike over now that I'm so slow. But that isn't to say that I don't descend fast with a stop light at the bottom.

[Roger Merriman]

You live in a dry climate note your surprise at gear cables not lasting as
others on the group as water gets in.

In your conditions yes gators make more sense in that they are hard wearing
and puncture resistant, personally the lack of traction always put me off
them.

Roger Merriman

[Frank Krygowski]

On 2/9/2024 4:15 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
>
> In your conditions yes gators make more sense in that they are hard wearing
> and puncture resistant, personally the lack of traction always put me off
> them.

I'm curious how riders sense that lack of traction with certain tires.
ISTM the only common way of sensing it would be to corner right at the
limit of traction and detect the beginnings of a slide - something I
would almost never attempt. Are people here frequently cornering so fast
that their bikes begin to slide?

A couple decades ago a male friend of mine rode the rear of our tandem
with me. Together we climbed one of our area's steepest hills. As we
crossed a wet spot, we spun the rear tire briefly; but that was a unique
experience for me. I'd never do that often enough to compare one tire
brand with another.

--
- Frank Krygowski

[Roger Merriman]

This was extremely easy any damp day the rear could be spun with ease ie
rear tyre with this low bar set, wasn’t going to put it on the front!

Other tires even cheap stuff would only spin if you rode on wet metalwork
or pulled away smartly from the lights on a wet day where might get a brief
spin under torque, but the Gatorskins could be even just rolling along on
in the park paths/roads flat good quality tarmac.

My commute/utility bike is now an old MTB and was surprised by how much the
grip levels increased, even with stuff like BigApples or Marathons + ie
hard compound tires, the MTB tires clearly with soft rubber and so on that
could cope with wet off camber roots wasn’t going to be bothered by manhole
covers and the like.

but I did assume the hard compound wouldn’t be as secure as they are. Ie
don’t step out etc on wet cobbles and so on, loads of grip even in fairly
miserable conditions. That you’d be more cautious with a 25mm tire due to
its smaller footprint.

I have changed the MTB front tire from a more rounded and all rounder tire
to a squarer tire which is more soft conditions focused, and though the
grip levels are as they where on road with low pressures/soft compounds ie
glued to the tarmac feeling, it has slight wandering feeling if banked
over, ie the big side knobs deforming. Which was first time a bit
disconcerting/change in ride quality.

Off road even on harder surfaces it does what it’s supposed to.

Roger Merriman

[Frank Krygowski]

On 2/9/2024 4:55 PM, Roger Merriman wrote:
> Frank Krygowski <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>> On 2/9/2024 4:15 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>
>>> In your conditions yes gators make more sense in that they are hard wearing
>>> and puncture resistant, personally the lack of traction always put me off
>>> them.
>>
>> I'm curious how riders sense that lack of traction with certain tires.
>> ISTM the only common way of sensing it would be to corner right at the
>> limit of traction and detect the beginnings of a slide - something I
>> would almost never attempt. Are people here frequently cornering so fast
>> that their bikes begin to slide?
>>
>> A couple decades ago a male friend of mine rode the rear of our tandem
>> with me. Together we climbed one of our area's steepest hills. As we
>> crossed a wet spot, we spun the rear tire briefly; but that was a unique
>> experience for me. I'd never do that often enough to compare one tire
>> brand with another.
>>
> This was extremely easy any damp day the rear could be spun with ease ie
> rear tyre with this low bar set, wasn’t going to put it on the front!

You could easily spin the rear wheel with a Gatorskin mounted on any wet
day??

That astounds me.

--
- Frank Krygowski

[Roger Merriman]

Why? Road bikes tires in general are narrow so small footprint plus even
the soft summer tires are comparatively hard compounds at least compared to
MTB or even Gravel tires.

In general this is fine as roads offer good traction! It’s only when wet
that roads become slippery so tires that are even within the road sector
known to have long hard wearing life span and lack wet weather grip ie hard
compound rubber at fairly high pressures 120 psi ish this would of been 10
years back.

Let alone the fact I’m more Chris Hoy than Froome ie so my take off away
from lights etc is brisk!

Roger Merriman

[Frank Krygowski]

On 2/10/2024 5:37 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
> Frank Krygowski <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>
>> You could easily spin the rear wheel with a Gatorskin mounted on any wet
>> day??
>>
>> That astounds me.
>>
> Why? Road bikes tires in general are narrow so small footprint plus even
> the soft summer tires are comparatively hard compounds at least compared to
> MTB or even Gravel tires.

Let's just say you must have incredibly strong legs.

--
- Frank Krygowski

[Roger Merriman]

Unlikely note while easy to do so I was deliberately doing so, rather than
being surprised by it.

And well London is a dank wet place at least in the winter!

Roger Merriman

[Tom Kunich]

Most of the winter days that I ride up Cull Canyon not only is the road wet but it has soft mud running across the road in several places. I don't know how hard you must accelerate in order to say that Gatorskins don't have traction but it simply isn't true.I've ridden them in everything from very wet roads to pouring rain and while I find Pro4's to have better traction, I would hardly belittle Gatorskins as you've been doing. And I would guess that until 5 to 8 years ago I could accelerate off from a stop faster than you. And the new all black Gatorskin use pretty much the same rubber compound as the All Season's. The traction of the Gatorskins are not limited by the rubber but by the rigid casing.

[Roger Merriman]

Gatorskins even have skaterskins as a name, it doesn’t take much digging to
find others who find them slippery!

They are quite a different beast to the 4 seasons which are just GP5000
with extra protection layer and apparently softer rubber.

That Gatorskins have long life expectancy should indicate that the rubber
is hard, while can add stuff to try to mitigate soft rubber doesn’t last
and hard rubber doesn’t grip still holds.

Roger Merriman

[Tom Kunich]

Around here I've been flatting about 8 out of 10 rides and they are all pinholes so it has to be the steel belted tire wires. In one case the wire was still in the tire and it was curked up on the outside end. This allowed it to be thrown off easiloy because most of the punctures don't have a cause. Most of the flats were these pinholes and only one was a glass shard which I wouldn't think could puncture the Gatorskin.

Because of the very small puntures I am thinking of installing tubeless for the rest of the winter.

[Tom Kunich]

I've been thinking the same thing. Of course my legs are in pretty bad shape now. There is a road that crosses the dam at the mouth of Cull Canyon here and up nere the top it is 13%. I'll be that my heart rate was 160 trying to get up that 25 yard sedction today.

But because Roger is so anti-Gatorskin, I've been trying to cause them to lose traction.I have to cross 7 bridges and one of two of them are smooth concrete with metal plates on both ends and two others are all metal though one of them has anti-skid on it.

For many years when I was pretty fast I used nothing but Gatorskins and didn't have much problems with them. One outstanding problem was picking up a goats head on a fast downhill chicain. The tire deflated instantly and I lost traction and slid up the canted part of the lower turn. Since some guys were chasing, I think that it scared them more than me. Pulled the goats head, replaced the innertube, used a CO2 cartridge and we were on out way with two dozen turns before the bottom and the group going much slower than when I got that flat. I would hardly call that a loss of traction since it was a flat that almost rolled the tire off of the rim.

In any case all I can think of is that Roger starts like I used to. Once in awhile I would literally throw the tire off of the rear rim when starting. Since that was with Michelin's I must have been putting a lot of power into it. I couldn't do that now. I have trouble climbing 200 feet with a 10 or 11% grade.

[Roger Merriman]

Absolutely not huge effort that was the amusement, wasn’t pulling away
smartly from lights etc but on the flat in the parks ie somewhere safe on
day with wet tarmac and very easy to get the rear to step out or
momentarily spin.

Which isn’t that surprising considering they are road tires so fairly
narrow would have been 25mm and Gators have hard wearing compounds that’s
why they are so robust and last so well.

I’m far from the only one to have experienced this hence the nickname of
skaterskins as there traction or lack of it was infamous.

Remember you live in a dry climate I don’t.

Roger Merriman