CF Bike Shatters Top Tube and Down Tube after hitting a Road Divot
Kenny
"Hi,
As I'm not active on these forums I'm not sure exactly what has been
written on this issue but all comments and help for me would be most
grateful.
I ride a SCOTT CR1 team, which I have now had for over a month. I'm a
keen road cyclist for fun/exercise but am not competetive. I should
add that I have had the bike from new and it has never been subject to
any crash, nor impact.
Yesterday whilst riding (on the flat, in a mid gear), I struck a small
stone with the front wheel which sent me slightly toward the curb. The
front wheel presumably dipped into a divot/small hole on the road and
the bike literally crumbled beneath me. The frame of the bike split
into 3 pieces instantly, so fast that I had no time at all to react.
Needless to say I sustained injuries of a reasonable severity.
I had to attend my local hospital where I received 11 stitches to my
face. I also required an Xray which showed there was no fracture to my
jaw. I sustained further grazes/lacerations to both knees, both
shoulder, both elbows and hands. I have also shattered 2 of my teeth,
for which I'm seeing a dentist today.
Whilst I accept that road cycling involves a degree of (controlled)
risk, this is absolutely not something I anticipated.
As a doctor, I of course have an interest in health and safety issues
and thought I would raise this on here. I'm actually glad I'm alive,
because a 12inch portion of the downtube shattered off entirely. This
could easily have embededded itself into me.
I have pictures on my phone that I can include if you feel that this
would be useful.
My question is really.....is this to be expected? I am strongly of the
opinion that I will raise this issue with Scott, but would value all
your opinions greatly.
Thanks in advance,
Steve
P.S. Pictures have been added here: http://s190.photobucket.com/albums/z284/Steebler/
P.P.S. I am 9 1/2 stone and 5'8 tall, so hardly a heavyweight. "
jim beam
cf almost always gives warning signs before failure. the matrix and the
fibers both make cracking noises as a fracture progresses. and the
probability of a fracture progressing from zero to fail without a period
within the audible warning zone is slim to zero.
bottom line, your frame should not have failed - probably a
manufacturing defect - but at the same time, you absolutely /have/ to
heed any pre-failure warning noises.
jim beam
in fact, you posted "Stem Handlebar Interface Creak Noise" on 7/5 didn't
you?
A Muzi
> P.P.S. I am 9 1/2 stone and 5'8 tall, so hardly a heavyweight. "
An horrible story and my deepest sympathy.
But, as we say here often, don't let attorneys work on your bike and
don't take legal advice from bicycle mechanics. That goes for the bulk
of r.b.t. denizens as well (practicing attorneys in this area excepted).
You need competent legal advice and promptly. Stop talking about the
incident and let your counsel find the appropriate experts to analyze
the bike, the situation and the ramifications. Then write back to tell
us later. If you are in USA (your writing style implies not) there are
several people who specialize in this area, write me. Otherwise call
your local bar association for a referral. You need an expert as the
'facts' are always voluminous and complicated and the way they are
discerned has huge import to you.
cheap shots about 'carbon' and 'scott' are unhelpful here.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
Kenny
doesn't jive. Like how does striking a road "divot" cause such
catastrophic damage? I find this hard to believe, don't you?
Kenny
A Muzi
Yes. There is likely a lot more going on here which is why I suggested
he consult an attorney expert in the area. That person will have the
resources to sort out what really happened. We don't.
amakyonin
It looks like the entire flared section of the downtube detached
cleanly from the headtube. I suspect a bad bond here is the culprit.
The top tube then snapped and the downtube must have hit something
(curb?) to cause the third break.
It would be interesting to know how much this rider weighs. If he's
Chalo sized he should have had more sense to buy a sturdier bike.
Crescentius Vespasianus
So at first it's a creak, creak noise.
Then CREAK, then a giant zipping noise
like when they zip up a body bag, and
then you're on the ground.
Even a large diameter branch, on a tree,
first gives a creak, then a ripping
noise before it crashes to the ground.
Had some storms around here lately, it's
amazing how wind can break a 4 inch
diameter branch, like it's a toothpick.
I did see in the pics that the Scott
runs the cables inside the tubes, might
that have something to do this this.
Like some rubbing cable, cuts through
the tube.
A Muzi
>> After reading the person's report I looked at his photos. Something
>> doesn't jive. Like how does striking a road "divot" cause such
>> catastrophic damage? I find this hard to believe, don't you?
amakyonin wrote:
> It looks like the entire flared section of the downtube detached
> cleanly from the headtube. I suspect a bad bond here is the culprit.
> The top tube then snapped and the downtube must have hit something
> (curb?) to cause the third break.
> It would be interesting to know how much this rider weighs. If he's
> Chalo sized he should have had more sense to buy a sturdier bike.
Rider says '9.5 stone' which is, what, 133 pounds-ish? 61kg? ?? About
0.4 Standard Chalos? Not usually considered bike-mangling mass.
A Muzi
>>>> http://s190.photobucket.com/albums/z284/Steebler/
>>>> P.P.S. I am 9 1/2 stone and 5'8 tall, so hardly a heavyweight. "
>>> cf almost always gives warning signs before failure. the matrix and
>>> the fibers both make cracking noises as a fracture progresses. and
>>> the probability of a fracture progressing from zero to fail without a
>>> period within the audible warning zone is slim to zero.
>>> bottom line, your frame should not have failed - probably a
>>> manufacturing defect - but at the same time, you absolutely /have/ to
>>> heed any pre-failure warning noises.
> jim beam also wrote:
>> in fact, you posted "Stem Handlebar Interface Creak Noise" on 7/5
>> didn't you?
Crescentius Vespasianus wrote:
> So at first it's a creak, creak noise. Then CREAK, then a giant zipping
> noise like when they zip up a body bag, and then you're on the ground.
> Even a large diameter branch, on a tree, first gives a creak, then a
> ripping noise before it crashes to the ground. Had some storms around
> here lately, it's amazing how wind can break a 4 inch diameter branch,
> like it's a toothpick.
> I did see in the pics that the Scott runs the cables inside the tubes,
> might that have something to do this this. Like some rubbing cable, cuts
> through the tube.
Cables chafed through a tube in just over 30 days?
Kenny
> On Aug 15, 12:31 am, Kenny <Postoas...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> It looks like the entire flared section of the downtube detached
> cleanly from the headtube.
No, what I see from the pictures is the head tube is 180 degrees
turned around and the break points are all jagged.
Mike Jacoubowsky
>>> doesn't jive. Like how does striking a road "divot" cause such
>>> catastrophic damage? I find this hard to believe, don't you?
>
> amakyonin wrote:
>> It looks like the entire flared section of the downtube detached
>> cleanly from the headtube. I suspect a bad bond here is the culprit.
>> The top tube then snapped and the downtube must have hit something
>> (curb?) to cause the third break.
>> It would be interesting to know how much this rider weighs. If he's
>> Chalo sized he should have had more sense to buy a sturdier bike.
>
> Rider says '9.5 stone' which is, what, 133 pounds-ish? 61kg? ?? About 0.4
> Standard Chalos? Not usually considered bike-mangling mass.
Sure, but what do you make of-
"Yesterday whilst riding (on the flat, in a mid gear), I struck a small
stone with the front wheel which sent me slightly toward the curb. "
Specifically, the part about "sent me slightly toward the curb." What
exactly is he saying?
As for bike-mangling mass, anything that brings an object to a sudden stop
is capable of inflicting GREAT damage, regardless of how light the bike &
rider are. This is something we have trouble explaining to customers who
don't feel that hitting a curb should have destroyed their frame. They talk
about how much a mountain bike is supposed to be able to handle because look
at what goes on off-road, and don't understand that, in the off-road
environment, there aren't nearly as many immovable objects as found on the
street, and thus not as many opportunities to destroy things.
--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
RS
civil plaintiff's attornies in your area and go with one. I would also be sure
the bike remains safe and untouched. Take much better pictures to
document and take images of where the accident occured.
That's a horrendous amount of damage and a defect in that frame or the
manufacturing process cannot be ruled out. I would imagine Scott would
want to make this go away.
In article <1187148727....@z24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>,
Posto...@gmail.com says...
Derk
> cf almost always gives warning signs before failure. the matrix and the
> fibers both make cracking noises as a fracture progresses. and the
> probability of a fracture progressing from zero to fail without a period
> within the audible warning zone is slim to zero.
Tell that to all the people who ride a bike with a MP3 player or similar in
their ears. My experience is that they hear nothing else.
Derk
John Forrest Tomlinson
wrote:
[JRA story snipped]
>My question is really.....is this to be expected?
Do you actually think that it's expected that bikes regularly shatter
on tiny impacts?
Really, do you?
--
JT
****************************
Remove "remove" to reply
Visit http://www.jt10000.com
****************************
John Forrest Tomlinson
wrote:
>After reading the person's report I looked at his photos. Something
>doesn't jive. Like how does striking a road "divot" cause such
>catastrophic damage? I find this hard to believe, don't you?
It's hard to believe.
DougC
> On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 20:32:07 -0700, Kenny <Posto...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> [JRA story snipped]
>> My question is really.....is this to be expected?
>
> Do you actually think that it's expected that bikes regularly shatter
> on tiny impacts?
>
> Really, do you?
>
>
What I'm wondering here is.... why no kevlar layer?
Yea I know cyclists are pissy about their ounces, but really.
Wouldn't guarantee you'd always land safely, but it does greatly help
with the effects of a composite component failure.
~
jim beam
isn't it illegal?
but i know what you mean. some doofus swerving in front of you because
he's plugged in and can't hear you announce "on your left", is asking
for a darwin award.
jim beam
if the correct materials are used in the first place, it wouldn't be
adding any safety at all.
regardless, something was seriously wrong here. where are these frames
made btw?
D'ohBoy
> DougC wrote:
> > John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:
> >> wrote:
> >> [JRA story snipped]
> >>> My question is really.....is this to be expected?
>
> >> Do you actually think that it's expected that bikes regularly shatter
> >> on tiny impacts?
> >> Really, do you?
>
> > What I'm wondering here is.... why no kevlar layer?
> > Yea I know cyclists are pissy about their ounces, but really.
>
> > Wouldn't guarantee you'd always land safely, but it does greatly help
> > with the effects of a composite component failure.
> > ~
>
> if the correct materials are used in the first place, it wouldn't be
> adding any safety at all.
>
> regardless, something was seriously wrong here. where are these frames
> made btw?
Germany.
>From cyclingnews.com:
"Denk Engineering GmbH and Scott USA to cease relationship
Denk Engineering GmbH and Scott USA have announced the end of their
working relationship effective the end of October 2007. The German
engineering firm was responsible for many of Scott's frame and
suspension hallmarks over the past twelve years, including the Spark
cross country bike, the Genius trail bike frames, the full-carbon
Ransom all-mountain platform, and their associated proprietary shocks.
Road innovations include the revolutionary CR1, Addict, and Plasma
framesets as well as their CR1 tube-to-tube and IMP carbon
construction processes.
Denk Engineering has stated that it still has three collaborative
projects pending, each of which are to be completed by the end of
October and presented through the 2008 trade shows."
D'ohBoy
D'ohBoy
Although they may not do the actual construction, they are responsible
for the design.
D'ohBoy
Crescentius Vespasianus
>> Wouldn't guarantee you'd always land safely, but it does greatly help
>> with the effects of a composite component failure.
>> ~
Body armor may stop a round fired from
an AK-47, which it has been tested for,
but I seriously doubt they have been
tested for spearing from a sharpened CF
tube. Without testing, how can you be sure?
Tim McNamara
A Muzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> But, as we say here often, don't let attorneys work on your bike and
> don't take legal advice from bicycle mechanics.
Excellent advice.
But to talk about the bike itself seems within our purview. I have seen
a few photos of similar failures of CF bikes, where the front part of
the frame breaks off, but IIRC all those had occurred in professional
racing situations in sprint pile-ups. I can't recall with certainty if
we have had a report similar to this in this newsgroup but I am vaguely
recalling that we have. Does anyone else remember?
Tim McNamara
amakyonin <amakyo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> It would be interesting to know how much this rider weighs. If he's
> Chalo sized he should have had more sense to buy a sturdier bike.
Read the first post again. The rider's height and weight are given at
the end of the post.
DougC
Kevlar doesn't stretch (much) or shatter, it stays tough and flexible.
The difference here being, the frame would have likely stayed in one
piece, and the rider may well not have crashed. Is that important?
From http://www.modelaircraft.org/insider/06_03/04.html -
"...The aramid composites resist shattering upon impact, and the
presence of the fiber inhibits propagation of cracks...."
?:|
A Muzi
>>>> doesn't jive. Like how does striking a road "divot" cause such
>>>> catastrophic damage? I find this hard to believe, don't you?
>> amakyonin wrote:
>>> It looks like the entire flared section of the downtube detached
>>> cleanly from the headtube. I suspect a bad bond here is the culprit.
>>> The top tube then snapped and the downtube must have hit something
>>> (curb?) to cause the third break.
>>> It would be interesting to know how much this rider weighs. If he's
>>> Chalo sized he should have had more sense to buy a sturdier bike.
>> Rider says '9.5 stone' which is, what, 133 pounds-ish? 61kg? ?? About 0.4
>> Standard Chalos? Not usually considered bike-mangling mass.
Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
> Sure, but what do you make of-
> "Yesterday whilst riding (on the flat, in a mid gear), I struck a small
> stone with the front wheel which sent me slightly toward the curb. "
> Specifically, the part about "sent me slightly toward the curb." What
> exactly is he saying?
> As for bike-mangling mass, anything that brings an object to a sudden stop
> is capable of inflicting GREAT damage, regardless of how light the bike &
> rider are. This is something we have trouble explaining to customers who
> don't feel that hitting a curb should have destroyed their frame. They talk
> about how much a mountain bike is supposed to be able to handle because look
> at what goes on off-road, and don't understand that, in the off-road
> environment, there aren't nearly as many immovable objects as found on the
> street, and thus not as many opportunities to destroy things.
Mike's got a good point. Those of us who see many mangled bikes suspect
there's more to this story.
Dan...@gmail.com
>
> - Show quoted text -
Is it really all that common for people to be destroying MTB frames on
curbs? I'm honestly surprised to hear this from people who work in
shops. I'd expect that type of failure from the BST's, but not from a
real mountain bike. My hardtail has been being thrashed & crashed
since the mid 90's, and my FS since '01 or '02. Stuff breaks, but the
frames have held up nicely (knock on wood).
Are we talking super-lightweight bikes, super-heavy riders or am I
just under a misimpression that (real) MTB frames are made to
withstand some abuse? I run into plenty of solid stuff both on and
off road, rock ledges and concrete stairs or ledges being toward the
top of the list. Not that long ago I slammed a wooden bridge approach
out in the woods, and the only thing that gave was me.
A Muzi
>>> cf almost always gives warning signs before failure. the matrix and the
>>> fibers both make cracking noises as a fracture progresses. and the
>>> probability of a fracture progressing from zero to fail without a period
>>> within the audible warning zone is slim to zero.
> Derk wrote:
>> Tell that to all the people who ride a bike with a MP3 player or
>> similar in
>> their ears. My experience is that they hear nothing else.
jim beam wrote:
> isn't it illegal?
> but i know what you mean. some doofus swerving in front of you because
> he's plugged in and can't hear you announce "on your left", is asking
> for a darwin award.
I'm more concerned with the SUV pilots. Damned space cadets are
gesticulating and yelling into the phone more often now. Their lane
drift and left turn trajectories are an adrenalin buzz!
--
Andrew Muzi
A Muzi
> A Muzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>> Mike's got a good point. Those of us who see many mangled bikes suspect
>> there's more to this story.
Dan...@gmail.com wrote:
> Is it really all that common for people to be destroying MTB frames on
> curbs? I'm honestly surprised to hear this from people who work in
> shops. I'd expect that type of failure from the BST's, but not from a
> real mountain bike. My hardtail has been being thrashed & crashed
> since the mid 90's, and my FS since '01 or '02. Stuff breaks, but the
> frames have held up nicely (knock on wood).
> Are we talking super-lightweight bikes, super-heavy riders or am I
> just under a misimpression that (real) MTB frames are made to
> withstand some abuse? I run into plenty of solid stuff both on and
> off road, rock ledges and concrete stairs or ledges being toward the
> top of the list. Not that long ago I slammed a wooden bridge approach
> out in the woods, and the only thing that gave was me.
I surely have no idea. Nor have I speculated.
My _first_ suggestion was to consult attorneys practiced in the area for
consultation. You'll get counsel and expertise from their established
network.
I still think that's a good idea.
--
Andrew Muzi
Jay Beattie
> > Is it really all that common for people to be destroying MTB frames on
> > curbs? I'm honestly surprised to hear this from people who work in
> > shops. I'd expect that type of failure from the BST's, but not from a
> > real mountain bike. My hardtail has been being thrashed & crashed
> > since the mid 90's, and my FS since '01 or '02. Stuff breaks, but the
> > frames have held up nicely (knock on wood).
> > Are we talking super-lightweight bikes, super-heavy riders or am I
> > just under a misimpression that (real) MTB frames are made to
> > withstand some abuse? I run into plenty of solid stuff both on and
> > off road, rock ledges and concrete stairs or ledges being toward the
> > top of the list. Not that long ago I slammed a wooden bridge approach
> > out in the woods, and the only thing that gave was me.
>
> I surely have no idea. Nor have I speculated.
> My _first_ suggestion was to consult attorneys practiced in the area for
> consultation. You'll get counsel and expertise from their established
> network.
> I still think that's a good idea.
>
case like this a few years ago, although the bond failure was very
apparent. If you have a clean separation, that's the kiss of death
for the manufacturer. Somebody got sleepy after lunch and forgot to
smear on enough crazy glue. If the thing exploded when the rider hit a
hole or a wall or the side of a truck, that's another matter. In
those cases, frames aren't expected to be indestructible, and the
rider goes OTB regardless of whether the frame breaks since there are
no passenger restraints on bikes (yet).
The OP should tell the selling LBS and call the risk manager at
Scott. This is an easily settleable case. -- Jay Beattie.
Dan...@gmail.com
> > Is it really all that common for people to be destroying MTB frames on
> > curbs? I'm honestly surprised to hear this from people who work in
> > shops. I'd expect that type of failure from the BST's, but not from a
> > real mountain bike. My hardtail has been being thrashed & crashed
> > since the mid 90's, and my FS since '01 or '02. Stuff breaks, but the
> > frames have held up nicely (knock on wood).
> > Are we talking super-lightweight bikes, super-heavy riders or am I
> > just under a misimpression that (real) MTB frames are made to
> > withstand some abuse? I run into plenty of solid stuff both on and
> > off road, rock ledges and concrete stairs or ledges being toward the
> > top of the list. Not that long ago I slammed a wooden bridge approach
> > out in the woods, and the only thing that gave was me.
>
> I surely have no idea. Nor have I speculated.
> My _first_ suggestion was to consult attorneys practiced in the area for
> consultation. You'll get counsel and expertise from their established
> network.
> I still think that's a good idea.
> --
> Andrew Muziwww.yellowjersey.org
>
> - Show quoted text -
I think something slipped between the lines here. I have no reason to
contact anyone, all my bikes are reasonably intact. I am an
uninvolved third party responding to the statement Mike made that you
seemed to agree with, regarding mountain bike frames being destroyed
by customers hitting curbs. I find this surprising, so I asked how
often you & Mike, being in the biz, see such a thing takes place
(regarding mountain bikes and curbs) and if it was mostly extra-light
bikes or extra-heavy riders.
BTW, I agree with your suggestion for the OP to contact an attorney.
To the OP, be careful which attorney you see. I was rear-ended on my
motorcycle a couple years back, and the attorney I went with was worse
than useless. In retrospect I should have contacted a motorcycle
advocacy group or something of the like for help finding the right
attorney for my case.
andre...@aol.com
> Kenny wrote:
> > After reading the person's report I looked at his photos. Something
> > doesn't jive. Like how does striking a road "divot" cause such
> > catastrophic damage? I find this hard to believe, don't you?
>
> he consult an attorney expert in the area. That person will have the
> resources to sort out what really happened. We don't.
I agree with Andrew. Most of us have been riding alone and in groups
for many years. We have ridden over nasty roads, and have seen
accidents. In fact we probably have seen pretty serious accidents with
damage to bikes and components of all kinds. However, in my years
riding with people that ride everything from light to heavy and from
hydrogen to plutonium frames. I have never seen a bike suddenly
snapping in half as in the pictures. So, Kenny should get a lawyer to
help him sort this out, as Andrew suggested.
Andres
A Muzi
> A Muzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>> I surely have no idea. Nor have I speculated.
>> My _first_ suggestion was to consult attorneys practiced in the area for
>> consultation. You'll get counsel and expertise from their established
>> network.
>> I still think that's a good idea.
Jay Beattie wrote:
> He has no case! (remember, I do defense). I paid good money on a
> case like this a few years ago, although the bond failure was very
> apparent. If you have a clean separation, that's the kiss of death
> for the manufacturer. Somebody got sleepy after lunch and forgot to
> smear on enough crazy glue. If the thing exploded when the rider hit a
> hole or a wall or the side of a truck, that's another matter. In
> those cases, frames aren't expected to be indestructible, and the
> rider goes OTB regardless of whether the frame breaks since there are
> no passenger restraints on bikes (yet).
>
> The OP should tell the selling LBS and call the risk manager at
> Scott. This is an easily settleable case.
Well, that _is_ expert counsel in my book.
He can always get a second opinion form an attorney experienced in the
area but there's no point in the others of us speculating or pontificating.
raa...@gmail.com
>
> - Show quoted text -
no case ? you buy a car and it falls apart on the highway and there is
no case ? where would that be ? why all these massive car recalls for
possible faulty problems on a small part ? a consumer has a right to
expect a reasonable amount of use from a product- where the product
fails during normal use the consumer has a right to redress and
further pursue damages caused by the failure. No ?
Tim McNamara
raa...@gmail.com wrote:
> He has no case! (remember, I do defense). I paid good money on a
> > case like this a few years ago, although the bond failure was very
> > apparent. If you have a clean separation, that's the kiss of death
> > for the manufacturer. Somebody got sleepy after lunch and forgot
> > to smear on enough crazy glue. If the thing exploded when the rider
> > hit a hole or a wall or the side of a truck, that's another matter.
> > In those cases, frames aren't expected to be indestructible, and
> > the rider goes OTB regardless of whether the frame breaks since
> > there are no passenger restraints on bikes (yet).
> >
> > The OP should tell the selling LBS and call the risk manager at
> > Scott. This is an easily settleable case. -- Jay Beattie.- Hide
> > quoted text -
> >
> > - Show quoted text -
<OT rant>Good grief I wish people would just get a darned newsreader and
stop using that Google crap. </OT rant>
> no case ? you buy a car and it falls apart on the highway and there
> is no case ? where would that be ? why all these massive car recalls
> for possible faulty problems on a small part ? a consumer has a right
> to expect a reasonable amount of use from a product- where the
> product fails during normal use the consumer has a right to redress
> and further pursue damages caused by the failure. No ?
We don't know if the bike failed in "normal" use. The OP said he hit
something which shunted him towards the curb and then he hit a "road
divot," whatever the heck that is. Then his bike exploded. We just
don't have enough information and it seems like there is more to the
story. Jay and Andrew and Mike and Peter et al are right in their
caution about assuming that the bike failed because we just don't have
enough information.
This is a JRA story, as in "I was Just Riding Along, minding my own
business, when..." Once it's dug into, there is always more than JRA.
Tim McNamara
A Muzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> >> jim beam wrote:
> >>> cf almost always gives warning signs before failure. the matrix
> >>> and the fibers both make cracking noises as a fracture
> >>> progresses. and the probability of a fracture progressing from
> >>> zero to fail without a period within the audible warning zone is
> >>> slim to zero.
>
> > Derk wrote:
> >> Tell that to all the people who ride a bike with a MP3 player or
> >> similar in their ears. My experience is that they hear nothing
> >> else.
>
> jim beam wrote:
> > isn't it illegal?
A quick Google suggests that most states if not all prohibit the use of
earphones in both ears while driving a motor vehicle or riding a bike.
Which means that I see a *lot* of bicyclists violating that particular
law.
> > but i know what you mean. some doofus swerving in front of you
> > because he's plugged in and can't hear you announce "on your left",
> > is asking for a darwin award.
>
> I'm more concerned with the SUV pilots. Damned space cadets are
> gesticulating and yelling into the phone more often now. Their lane
> drift and left turn trajectories are an adrenalin buzz!
Unfortunately there are doofii everywhere, operating all kinds of
vehicles.
A Muzi
>>> case like this a few years ago, although the bond failure was very
>>> apparent. If you have a clean separation, that's the kiss of death
>>> for the manufacturer. Somebody got sleepy after lunch and forgot
>>> to smear on enough crazy glue. If the thing exploded when the rider
>>> hit a hole or a wall or the side of a truck, that's another matter.
>>> In those cases, frames aren't expected to be indestructible, and
>>> the rider goes OTB regardless of whether the frame breaks since
>>> there are no passenger restraints on bikes (yet).
>>> The OP should tell the selling LBS and call the risk manager at
>>> Scott. This is an easily settleable case.
> raa...@gmail.com wrote:
>> no case ? you buy a car and it falls apart on the highway and there
>> is no case ? where would that be ? why all these massive car recalls
>> for possible faulty problems on a small part ? a consumer has a right
>> to expect a reasonable amount of use from a product- where the
>> product fails during normal use the consumer has a right to redress
>> and further pursue damages caused by the failure. No ?
Tim McNamara wrote:
> We don't know if the bike failed in "normal" use. The OP said he hit
> something which shunted him towards the curb and then he hit a "road
> divot," whatever the heck that is. Then his bike exploded. We just
> don't have enough information and it seems like there is more to the
> story. Jay and Andrew and Mike and Peter et al are right in their
> caution about assuming that the bike failed because we just don't have
> enough information.
>
> This is a JRA story, as in "I was Just Riding Along, minding my own
> business, when..." Once it's dug into, there is always more than JRA.
bing bing bing! Gold Star for Tim.
John Forrest Tomlinson
Why would the doofus time a swerve to when you are going by?
The whole "on your left" thing is dopey anyway.
John Forrest Tomlinson
wrote:
I don't see many mangled bikes and also suspect there is more to this
story. The very fact that I see few mangled bikes makes me think
there is more to this story.
It's either an exceptionally badly built bike or one that was damaged
earlier or the story of the failure is not true.
raa...@gmail.com
> In article <1187214071.014172.286...@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com>,
>
> - Show quoted text -
That is correct; however it certainly does not go so far to say he has
no case. Talking to a good lawyer will do far more than anyone here
ever could. As I indicated a consumer has a right to a reasonable
expectation...everyone here could agree to that I think. Something
like that could happen to you or me or our kids and it is important
that the manufacturer be held accountable where they are at fault for
all our sakes.
Bill Sornson
CA supposedly has a new cell phone use while driving law, but I swear I see
MORE people with 'em now than ever. Closest calls I've had while riding
have virtually all been due to distracted, yakking drivers.
Bill "ticket 'em!!!" S.
Jay Beattie
> In article <1187214071.014172.286...@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com>,
>
>
>
>
>
>
The important point for raam is that my "no case" quip was a joke. I
am a defense guy -- I am pathologically predisposed to saying there is
no case. But like you say, it all depends on the failure. In the true
JRA failure, the manufacturer settles -- 'cause bikes are not supposed
to fall apart. I have defended those kinds of cases, although they
are rare, and like I say, they usually result from someone in
production getting sleepy after lunch . . . or they involve a Chinese
OEM dabbling in cutting edge componentry (hey, topical and
inflammatory -- but true, sorry). Most of my other failure cases (and
I have done a lot of them) involve: (1) people beating the sh** out of
their bikes, or (2) new designs that fail to account for some weird
stress -- like when shock forks were first introduced and they were
ripping the front-ends off Al frames (thus, gussets). Notwithstanding
all the complaining in this group about the lack of engineering in the
bike field, I have worked with in-house engineers at some big
manufacuters who were well credentialed, one of whom was in the nuke-
bomb industry before moving to the bike business. -- Jay Beattie.
Artoi
> On Aug 15, 12:31 am, Kenny <Postoas...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > After reading the person's report I looked at his photos. Something
> > doesn't jive. Like how does striking a road "divot" cause such
> > catastrophic damage? I find this hard to believe, don't you?
>
> It looks like the entire flared section of the downtube detached
> cleanly from the headtube. I suspect a bad bond here is the culprit.
> The top tube then snapped and the downtube must have hit something
> (curb?) to cause the third break.
Nope, the headtube has been turned 180 degrees in the photo. The break
is in the top tube and down tube themselves.
--
raa...@gmail.com
>
> - Show quoted text -
Thank you for the clarification.
Paul Myron Hobson
>>>> Tell that to all the people who ride a bike with a MP3 player or
>>>> similar in their ears. My experience is that they hear nothing
>>>> else.
>> jim beam wrote:
>>> isn't it illegal?
Tim McNamara wrote:
> A quick Google suggests that most states if not all prohibit the use of
> earphones in both ears while driving a motor vehicle or riding a bike.
> Which means that I see a *lot* of bicyclists violating that particular
> law.
While it IS dangerous and not something I advocate, that's a pretty
meaningless law, eh? I can't have headphones at any volume, but dude
can through a 2 kW amp and some subwoofers in his trunk, play loud
enough to rattle his trunk lose and that's kosher?
oh well.
\\paul
Tom "Johnny Sunset" Sherman
Around here the school bus companies hire cretins. The drivers (and I
use that term loosely) change lanes without signaling and/or using their
mirrors.
--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
--
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