Westwood rims -- 559mm
Adam Rush
key word here--it has 584mm rims (Called "Krondäck," 'round here). I
would like to have plenty of options for tyres on this bike, so I
figure that 559mm rims are the way to go. However, it uses Westwood
rims and I'd like to keep it that way.
Is there such a beast as a 559 Westwood rim? Google isn't turning up
much of anything.
Do any of the nearby English sizes (for which Westwoods are made for)
have a good number of tyres available for them?
Also: No, I don't know what I'm talking about when I say "Westwood."
For all I know, it's "Warwick" or "Wally World." They're just these
rims that don't do caliper brakes.
Sheldon Brown
> Okay, I'm in the works for getting an old roadster. "Old" being the
> key word here--it has 584mm rims (Called "Krondäck," 'round here). I
> would like to have plenty of options for tyres on this bike, so I
> figure that 559mm rims are the way to go. However, it uses Westwood
> rims and I'd like to keep it that way.
>
> Is there such a beast as a 559 Westwood rim?
No. 559 rims are hook-edge type, and Westwood rims are straight sided
(straight inside, that is; rounded on the outside.)
The 26 inch Westwood rims were 590 mm, 26 x 1 3/8, a.k.a. 650A.
> Do any of the nearby English sizes (for which Westwoods are made for)
> have a good number of tyres available for them?
590 mm is in better shape than 584 mm (650B), but is still something of
an endangerd species.
I can provide tires in both of these sizes:
http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/tires
Sheldon "http://sheldonbrown.com/english" Brown
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Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
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Adam Rush
> > would like to have plenty of options for tyres on this bike, so I
> > figure that 559mm rims are the way to go. However, it uses Westwood
> > rims and I'd like to keep it that way.
> > Is there such a beast as a 559 Westwood rim?
> No. 559 rims are hook-edge type, and Westwood rims are straight sided
> (straight inside, that is; rounded on the outside.)
Does that mean that the hoop thingie (after shooting myself in the
foot, I'm not taking chances with vocabulary) inside the tyre is
designed differently for each type?
> The 26 inch Westwood rims were 590 mm, 26 x 1 3/8, a.k.a. 650A.
As I had said earlier, I don't know what I'm talking about. The rim I
am thinking of cannot be used with caliper brakes, for want of
vertical braking surface, but *might* be usable for rod brakes. I
have seen it in 584, 635, and possibly 622 (all that sticks in my mind
is "28"). What should i call this?
> > Do any of the nearby English sizes (for which Westwoods are made for)
> > have a good number of tyres available for them?
> 590 mm is in better shape than 584 mm (650B), but is still something of
> an endangerd species.
> I can provide tires in both of these sizes:
I did a bit more checking and saw a post from a while back about the
Sun Phat Albert. Would this be what I'm looking for, or is it way too
wide? It looks like what I*m thinking of, but I don't know if it's
steel (which I'd prefer).
Sheldon Brown
>>>Okay, I'm in the works for getting an old roadster. "Old" being the
>>>key word here--it has 584mm rims (Called "Krond ck," 'round here). I
>>>would like to have plenty of options for tyres on this bike, so I
>>>figure that 559mm rims are the way to go. However, it uses Westwood
>>>rims and I'd like to keep it that way.
>>>Is there such a beast as a 559 Westwood rim?
>>
>>No. 559 rims are hook-edge type, and Westwood rims are straight sided
>>(straight inside, that is; rounded on the outside.)
> Does that mean that the hoop thingie (after shooting myself in the
> foot, I'm not taking chances with vocabulary) inside the tyre is
> designed differently for each type?
The actual wire bead is probably no different, but the rubber moulded
around it is shaped to match a rim with an inward pointing edge. There
is limited interchangeability between hook-edge and straight-side rims
tires of the same bead seat diameter (ISO/E.T.R.T.O.). The only size
that I know of where both styles exists is 630 mm (27 inch.)
>>The 26 inch Westwood rims were 590 mm, 26 x 1 3/8, a.k.a. 650A.
> As I had said earlier, I don't know what I'm talking about.
Yes you do.
> The rim I
> am thinking of cannot be used with caliper brakes, for want of
> vertical braking surface,
Right. Those are Westwood rims.
> but *might* be usable for rod brakes.
No "might" about it, that's what they're designed for.
> I have seen it in 584, 635, and possibly 622 (all that sticks in my mind
> is "28"). What should i call this?
"Westwood." I never saw one in 622, but I have seen 635, 590, 540 and 451.
>>>Do any of the nearby English sizes (for which Westwoods are made for)
>>>have a good number of tyres available for them?
>>590 mm is in better shape than 584 mm (650B), but is still something of
>>an endangerd species.
>>I can provide tires in both of these sizes:
> I did a bit more checking and saw a post from a while back about the
> Sun Phat Albert. Would this be what I'm looking for, or is it way too
> wide? It looks like what I*m thinking of, but I don't know if it's
> steel (which I'd prefer).
I'm not finding anything on "Phat Albert" though I do recall hearing the
name.
The Sun Double Wide is a similar profile, see:
http://harriscyclery.net/site/page.cfm?PageID=49&SKU=RM8553
Like all decent quality rims, it's aluminum. Although the shape is
Westwoodesque, it is not intended for use with rim brakes, and long-term
durability of the rim surface under braking loads cannot be guaranteed.
Note that going from 584 mm to 559 will lower the bottom bracket by 12.5
mm (1/2") which could lead to pedal clearance issues. It will also look
a bit funny with rims made for the larger tires, though using a wider
559 mm tire may ameliorate this.
Another issue is whether the brake rod linkages will have sufficient
adjustment room to reach the smaller rims.
You're probably better off sticking with the stock tires.
See: http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/tires/584.html
Sheldon "ISO/E.T.R.T.O." Brown
+--------------------------------------------------+
| For every complex problem, there is a solution |
| that is simple, neat, and wrong. |
| --H. L. Mencken |
+--------------------------------------------------+
Carl Fogel
[snip]
> I'm not finding anything on "Phat Albert"
> though I do recall hearing the name.
[snip]
Dear Sheldon,
If you Google within Google Groups
for "rim" and "Phat Albert," there
are about a dozen increasingly
elderly references in rec.bicycle.*
groups.
(I couldn't resist the name.)
Carl Fogel
A Muzi
Yes, IIRC 'Westrick' is a stirrup-brake rim section.
Raleigh's cross section was 'Westwood".
You'll find more rims of that style in 590 than anything
else nearby and a good selection of tires in that size at
$10~15. ( we even have all-white 590, besides the usual
black, gumwall and knobby)
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
Sheldon Brown
>> Also: No, I don't know what I'm talking about when I say "Westwood."
>> For all I know, it's "Warwick" or "Wally World." They're just these
>> rims that don't do caliper brakes.
Andy Muzi wrote:
> Yes, IIRC 'Westrick' is a stirrup-brake rim section. Raleigh's cross
> section was 'Westwood".
> You'll find more rims of that style in 590 than anything else nearby and
> a good selection of tires in that size at $10~15. ( we even have
> all-white 590, besides the usual black, gumwall and knobby)
Not quite. The rims made exclusively for rod brakes were "Westwood."
They had round sides, unsuitable for rim brakes.
The more conventional steel rims, with slightly angled sides, used on
Robin Hood, Phillips, Dunelt and all of the other second-line and lower
Raleigh products were "Endrick."
The top-of-the line Raleigh models (Raleigh, Rudge & Humber) came with
the "Raleigh Pattern" rims in 590 mm (26") and smaller sizes. These
were wider than Endricks, and as close to indestructible as any metal
bicycle rims ever. Schwinn made a 597 mm knockoff for their three speed
lightweights.
The Raleigh Pattern rim had a raised center section, like the Westwood,
but also had flat (parallel) sides so it could be used with either rod
brakes or caliper brakes.
Because these rims combine aspects of the Westwood and Endrick styles,
they're sometimes colloquially referred to as "Westrick" rims.
Sheldon "Olde English" Brown
+------------------------------------------+
| Some are born with a silver spoon, |
| And some are born without a clue; |
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| |
| When those fatcats drop the big one, |
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+------------------------------------------+
A Muzi
>>> Also: No, I don't know what I'm talking about when I say "Westwood."
>>> For all I know, it's "Warwick" or "Wally World." They're just these
>>> rims that don't do caliper brakes.
> Andy Muzi wrote:
>> Yes, IIRC 'Westrick' is a stirrup-brake rim section. Raleigh's cross
>> section was 'Westwood".
>> You'll find more rims of that style in 590 than anything else nearby
>> and a good selection of tires in that size at $10~15. ( we even have
>> all-white 590, besides the usual black, gumwall and knobby)
Sheldon Brown wrote:
> Not quite. The rims made exclusively for rod brakes were "Westwood."
> They had round sides, unsuitable for rim brakes.
>
> The more conventional steel rims, with slightly angled sides, used on
> Robin Hood, Phillips, Dunelt and all of the other second-line and lower
> Raleigh products were "Endrick."
>
> The top-of-the line Raleigh models (Raleigh, Rudge & Humber) came with
> the "Raleigh Pattern" rims in 590 mm (26") and smaller sizes. These
> were wider than Endricks, and as close to indestructible as any metal
> bicycle rims ever. Schwinn made a 597 mm knockoff for their three speed
> lightweights.
>
> The Raleigh Pattern rim had a raised center section, like the Westwood,
> but also had flat (parallel) sides so it could be used with either rod
> brakes or caliper brakes.
>
> Because these rims combine aspects of the Westwood and Endrick styles,
> they're sometimes colloquially referred to as "Westrick" rims.
Thanks, I had an association between Westrick and stirrup
brakes somwehere in memory but my oldest Raleigh parts books
show only Westwood rims for the DL-1.
Adam Rush
> elderly references in rec.bicycle.*
> groups.
http://groups.google.ca/groups?selm=35206EA9.6A2F3D47%40sheldonbrown.com&output=gplain
My metal shop teacher always told me:
"Mature," not "old."
Adam Rush
> > foot, I'm not taking chances with vocabulary) inside the tyre is
> > designed differently for each type?
> The actual wire bead is probably no different, but the rubber moulded
> around it is shaped to match a rim with an inward pointing edge. There
> is limited interchangeability between hook-edge and straight-side rims
> tires of the same bead seat diameter (ISO/E.T.R.T.O.). The only size
> that I know of where both styles exists is 630 mm (27 inch.)
Happen to have a picture of a 27 in westwood around?
> > I have seen it in 584, 635, and possibly 622 (all that sticks in my mind
> > is "28"). What should i call this?
> "Westwood." I never saw one in 622, but I have seen 635, 590, 540 and 451.
Those sizes get more evil as you go on
> Like all decent quality rims, it's aluminum. Although the shape is
> Westwoodesque, it is not intended for use with rim brakes, and long-term
> durability of the rim surface under braking loads cannot be guaranteed.
> Another issue is whether the brake rod linkages will have sufficient
> adjustment room to reach the smaller rims.
That much isn't a concern--this has a moped's front drum brake and a
rear drumful S-A(?) ss hub.
> Note that going from 584 mm to 559 will lower the bottom bracket by 12.5
> mm (1/2") which could lead to pedal clearance issues. It will also look
> a bit funny with rims made for the larger tires, though using a wider
> 559 mm tire may ameliorate this.
I'm not sure how much I'm going to be leaning anyway on a bike which
weighs 26 kilos...
Sheldon Brown
>>>Does that mean that the hoop thingie (after shooting myself in the
>>>foot, I'm not taking chances with vocabulary) inside the tyre is
>>>designed differently for each type?
I wrote:
>>The actual wire bead is probably no different, but the rubber moulded
>>around it is shaped to match a rim with an inward pointing edge. There
>>is limited interchangeability between hook-edge and straight-side rims
>>tires of the same bead seat diameter (ISO/E.T.R.T.O.). The only size
>>that I know of where both styles exists is 630 mm (27 inch.)
A.R.:
> Happen to have a picture of a 27 in westwood around?
Sorry if I didn't make myself clear, I was referring to the fact that
some 630 rims have hooked edges, and some don't. There have never been
Westwood rims in that size.
>>Note that going from 584 mm to 559 will lower the bottom bracket by 12.5
>>mm (1/2") which could lead to pedal clearance issues. It will also look
>>a bit funny with rims made for the larger tires, though using a wider
>>559 mm tire may ameliorate this.
>
> I'm not sure how much I'm going to be leaning anyway on a bike which
> weighs 26 kilos...
Heavy bikes (and heavy riders) can get going very fast down hill.
I remember Gary Helfrich once said: "I really have to watch my
weight...If it goes below about 205 I can't go fast down hill any more."
Sheldon "Lightning Descender, Slow Climber" Brown
+--------------------------------------+
| Without deviation from the norm, |
| progress is not possible |
| -- Frank Zappa |
+--------------------------------------+