Help: Replace 68,133 botom Bracket
Vulcan Drifter
I'm hoping that someone can offer some advice on this: I need to
replace the bottom bracket on my 90's era mountain bike. The original
(68/133 square taper) has lasted me well over all these years but
commuting to work in Vancouver's never ending rain has taken its toll.
The crank spindle is an, apparently odd, 133mm long and I’m having a
very difficult time finding a replacement. I'd like to go with some
kind of cartridge replacement with sealed bearings (just to make
replacement easier), and I don’t mind paying for better quality, but I
can't find a replacement, sealed or otherwise, anywhere! I checked a
whack of local bike shops with no success. When I do an online
search, I come up with a few hits but nothing that seems to be
‘current’. I tried the usual online retailers but none seem to carry
133mm spindle length. I might get away with a slightly shorter
spindle but I doubt it; the chain rings are a bare mm away from the
chain stays (and the cranks are centred.) – I had to add a plate under
the chain stays to prevent chain suck from grinding away my frame so I
don’t think that going with a shorter spindle will work.
Anyone know of an online source where I can get a 68/133? Thanks for
any adivice
John Henderson
> Hi:
>
> I'm hoping that someone can offer some advice on this: I need
> to replace the bottom bracket on my 90's era mountain bike.
> The original (68/133 square taper) has lasted me well over all
> these years but commuting to work in Vancouver's never ending
> rain has taken its toll.
>
> The crank spindle is an, apparently odd, 133mm long and I'm
> having a very difficult time finding a replacement. I'd like
> to go with some kind of cartridge replacement with sealed
> bearings (just to make replacement easier), and Idon't mind
> paying for better quality, but I can't find a replacement,
> sealed or otherwise, anywhere! I checked a whack of local
> bike shops with no success. When I do an online search, I
> come up with a few hits but nothing that seems to be
> 'current'. I tried the usual online retailers but none seem
> to carry 133mm spindle length. I might get away with a
> slightly shorter spindle but I doubt it; the chain rings are a
> bare mm away from the chain stays (and the cranks are
> centred.) – I had to add a plate under the chain stays to
> prevent chain suck from grinding away my frame so Idon't
> think that going with a shorter spindle will work.
>
> Anyone know of an online source where I can get a 68/133?
> Thanks for any adivice
I believe sealed cartridge bottom brackets are symmetrical, but
the older style with separate crank axle and cups are often
asymmetrical (have more crank axle length protruding on one
side than on the other). See
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/bbsize.html
This is something to check when correctly identifying a
replacement. It's obviously the chainwheel side which is
length-critical.
http://www.sjscycles.co.uk has a good range of bottom brackets,
including this unit which goes up to 131 mm:
http://tinyurl.com/9thkto
John
M-gineering
Kinex make a 131mm cartridge, FAG do a 132mm one, which you could use
with a small spacer
--
/Marten
info(apestaartje)m-gineering(punt)nl
Qui si parla Campagnolo
shimano UN series BBs at 127mm are pretty easy to find and cheap. Cart
bearings.
Vulcan Drifter
wrote:
Thanks but 127 is 6 mm too short - my chainrings would be grinding
through
my chainstays.
jim beam
are you sure it's 133, not 113? 20mm wider than standard is hella big.
besides, if you measure a bunch of shimano cartridge bb's, you'll find the
drive side spacing is all the same, so the extra spindle length is only
affecting the left crank frame distance from the stay. suggest you double-
check the bb, then measure the left side clearance, and determine whether
you can use a more standard [and obtainable] bb. posting the kind of
frame you have might help also.
jim beam
check again - shimano "un" bb spacing is all the same on the drive side.
Michael Press
<b794237d-00f3-4a27...@i18g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
Vulcan Drifter <Vulcan...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi:
>
> I'm hoping that someone can offer some advice on this: I need to
> replace the bottom bracket on my 90's era mountain bike. The original
> (68/133 square taper) has lasted me well over all these years but
> commuting to work in Vancouver's never ending rain has taken its toll.
>
> The crank spindle is an, apparently odd, 133mm long and I¹m having a
> very difficult time finding a replacement. I'd like to go with some
> kind of cartridge replacement with sealed bearings (just to make
> replacement easier), and I don¹t mind paying for better quality, but I
> can't find a replacement, sealed or otherwise, anywhere! I checked a
> whack of local bike shops with no success. When I do an online
> search, I come up with a few hits but nothing that seems to be
> Œcurrent¹. I tried the usual online retailers but none seem to carry
> 133mm spindle length. I might get away with a slightly shorter
> spindle but I doubt it; the chain rings are a bare mm away from the
> chain stays (and the cranks are centred.) I had to add a plate under
> the chain stays to prevent chain suck from grinding away my frame so I
> don¹t think that going with a shorter spindle will work.
>
> Anyone know of an online source where I can get a 68/133? Thanks for
> any adivice
Phil Wood offers 130 and 135 with a few millimeters of adjustment.
--
Michael Press
Vulcan Drifter
Hi Jim:
Thanks for your note. The length is definitely 133 mm. To ensure I
was measuring the right thing, I took the spindle to a bike shop who
confirmed that it's a 133 (and said: 'good luck finding one').
The bottom bracket is off a 1990 Trek 8900 Carbon fibre/aluminums
composite bike with Sugino crank arms. I purchased the bike new with
it’s current crankset, but the specs on this particular bike refer to
a “Cook Bro’s crankset so I assume the dealer removed the Cook Bro’s
set (they were a hot item at the time) and replaced it with the Sugino
stuff (and possibly a different bottom bracket) before I purchased it.
I've reassembled everything (as best I could with the wobbly crank)
and confirmed that the crank arms are centred on the bike. The
chainring side of the spindle sticks out 30.2 mm from the outer side
fixed bearing cup when everything is tightened up (again, as best I
can under the circumstances).
I’m not clear that I understand you’re suggestion: Are you suggesting
that it’s possible that a smaller replacement spindle length could
have the chainring side ‘protruding’ length the same as the one that I
have – so that any shortness will be account for on the non-chainring
side?
Thanks for your help with this.
bicycle...@ozarkbicycleservice.com
Is this, by any chance, a nutted spindle? If so, are you including the
threaded ends in your measurment?
jim beam
yes, correct. because the drive side clearances are the same, as long
as the non-drive side crank arm clears the frame, and you'll be able to
use a shorter crank spindle.
i think you're right about the component change-out. i therefore think
you should consider just going with a more conventional crank like
shimano mtb - the sugino could be a road triple thus needing a crazy
spindle to make it fit.
Vulcan Drifter
No, it's not a nutted spindle.
Vulcan Drifter
Hi Jim:
It's funny that you mention 'road tipple'! The bike originaly came
with Look clipless road pedals. At the time, I thought that was a bit
strange, but I had a new set of shimano clipless so I really didn't
think much about it. As an aside, I sold those Look pedals, which
were still new years later, for a premium on Ebay.
Vulcan Drifter
A Muzi
What is the spindle marking? 3M? 3R? 3U?
You can get cups, retainers, liners and, yes, spindles to some extent
but here aren't current cartridge units that size aside from Phil Wood.
Complicating this, your original is more likely than not asymmetric.
Current units are not only too short but symmetric so if you _could_
acquire such it would need to be something like a 138 to maintain right
side spacing. Again leading to either original parts or Phil Wood.
--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **
Vulcan Drifter
Hi Andrew:
Thanks for your note.
The markings on the spindle are: "CrMo 3RT" on one side and "MTBS102"
or "MT3S102" (hard to tell if it's a "B" or "3" - it looks like it
should be a "B' but it's not clearly stamped but all the other
characters are so maybe it is a "3")
The spindle is asymentrical by approximalty 5mm. I'm not certain but
I think the bottom bracket make is: TANGE which I understand is the
MFR for simano stuff. The model may be a K1 (Stamped on one of the
end cups) although I can't find any reference to that particular model
number anywhere on line - or much on TANGE for that matter.
Vulcan Drifter
James Thomson
> shimano "un" bb spacing is all the same on the drive side.
What makes you think so? I've got a pair of UN72s here - a 107mm and a
122.5mm, both 68mm shell. The 107mm has 17.5mm of axle clear of the flange
face. The 122.5mm has 25mm.
James Thomson
jim beam
well, i messed about with a number of shimano bb's when trying to set up
chain line on a fixie, and was disappointed to find that all the different
axle lengths i used had the same drive side protrusion - it was the non-
drive side that differed.
John Henderson
> The markings on the spindle are: "CrMo 3RT" on one side and
> "MTBS102" or "MT3S102" (hard to tell if it's a "B" or "3" -
> it looks like it should be a "B' but it's not clearly stamped
> but all the other characters are so maybe it is a "3")
>
> The spindle is asymentrical by approximalty 5mm. I'm not
> certain but I think the bottom bracket make is: TANGE which I
> understand is the MFR for simano stuff. The model may be a K1
> (Stamped on one of the end cups) although I can't find any
> reference to that particular model number anywhere on line -
> or much on TANGE for that matter.
That "3RT" above isn't "3TR" is it?
Sheldon Brown lists Japanese 3TR size code as 133 mm in length.
See http://www.sheldonbrown.com/bbsize.html
He goes on to identify the 130 mm sealed BB as the correct
symmetrical replacement.
John
James Thomson
> well, i messed about with a number of shimano bb's when trying to
> set up chain line on a fixie, and was disappointed to find that all the
> different axle lengths i used had the same drive side protrusion - it
> was the non-drive side that differed.
Seems you must have hit on an unlucky sample.
I've got a 7410 here (103mm axle) with 14mm drive side length. The table in
Barnett's seems a little overcomplicated, but correlating axle length and
"relative chainline" (page 10-16 and table 10-4 from page 10-34) it seems
that 107 and 110 have equal drive side length, as do 113 and 115. The
chainlines of the 103, 107, 113, 118, 122.5 and 127.5mm units are about what
you would expect if the increases in axle length were symmetrically
distributed.
http://www.bbinstitute.com/DX%20Demo%20Chap%2010.pdf
James Thomson
A Muzi
>>> I'm hoping that someone can offer some advice on this: I need to
>>> replace the bottom bracket on my 90's era mountain bike. The original
>>> (68/133 square taper) has lasted me well over all these years but
>>> commuting to work in Vancouver's never ending rain has taken its toll.
>>> The crank spindle is an, apparently odd, 133mm long and I’m having a
>>> very difficult time finding a replacement. I'd like to go with some
>>> kind of cartridge replacement with sealed bearings (just to make
>>> replacement easier), and I don’t mind paying for better quality, but I
>>> can't find a replacement, sealed or otherwise, anywhere! I checked a
>>> whack of local bike shops with no success. When I do an online
>>> search, I come up with a few hits but nothing that seems to be
>>> ‘current’. I tried the usual online retailers but none seem to carry
>>> 133mm spindle length. I might get away with a slightly shorter
>>> spindle but I doubt it; the chain rings are a bare mm away from the
>>> chain stays (and the cranks are centred.) – I had to add a plate under
>>> the chain stays to prevent chain suck from grinding away my frame so I
>>> don’t think that going with a shorter spindle will work.
>>> Anyone know of an online source where I can get a 68/133? Thanks for
>>> any adivice
> A Muzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>> What is the spindle marking? 3M? 3R? 3U?
>> You can get cups, retainers, liners and, yes, spindles to some extent
>> but here aren't current cartridge units that size aside from Phil Wood.
>>
>> Complicating this, your original is more likely than not asymmetric.
>> Current units are not only too short but symmetric so if you _could_
>> acquire such it would need to be something like a 138 to maintain right
>> side spacing. Again leading to either original parts or Phil Wood.
Vulcan Drifter wrote:
> The markings on the spindle are: "CrMo 3RT" on one side and "MTBS102"
> or "MT3S102" (hard to tell if it's a "B" or "3" - it looks like it
> should be a "B' but it's not clearly stamped but all the other
> characters are so maybe it is a "3")
>
> The spindle is asymentrical by approximalty 5mm. I'm not certain but
> I think the bottom bracket make is: TANGE which I understand is the
> MFR for simano stuff. The model may be a K1 (Stamped on one of the
> end cups) although I can't find any reference to that particular model
> number anywhere on line - or much on TANGE for that matter.
It's a "3R" spindle, "K1" is a date code and Tange Seiki is a competitor
of Shimano but I'm sure they subcontract to each other from time to time
(it's a Japanesey business thing...)
http://www.tangeseiki.com/company.htm
In stock, $19.95. Also 3RR (136mm) if needed.
A Muzi
>> shimano "un" bb spacing is all the same on the drive side.
James Thomson wrote:
> What makes you think so? I've got a pair of UN72s here - a 107mm and a
> 122.5mm, both 68mm shell. The 107mm has 17.5mm of axle clear of the flange
> face. The 122.5mm has 25mm.
I had assumed that "All the various sizes are actually the same size"
was some sort of joke which went over my head.
Vulcan Drifter
> Vulcan Drifter wrote:
> > The markings on the spindle are: "CrMo 3RT" on one side and
> > "MTBS102" or "MT3S102" (hard to tell if it's a "B" or "3" -
> > it looks like it should be a "B' but it's not clearly stamped
> > but all the other characters are so maybe it is a "3")
>
> > The spindle is asymentrical by approximalty 5mm. I'm not
> > certain but I think the bottom bracket make is: TANGE which I
> > understand is the MFR for simano stuff. The model may be a K1
> > (Stamped on one of the end cups) although I can't find any
> > reference to that particular model number anywhere on line -
> > or much on TANGE for that matter.
>
> That "3RT" above isn't "3TR" is it?
>
> Sheldon Brown lists Japanese 3TR size code as 133 mm in length.
>
> He goes on to identify the 130 mm sealed BB as the correct
> symmetrical replacement.
>
> John
Hi John:
Thanks for your note. Yes, it could be "3TR". I've reassembled for
now with new bearings so I can't confirm but it wouldn't be the first
time that I suffered from a little dyslexia! Thanks for the tip.
Dyslexics Untie!
Vulcan Drifter
Hi Andrew:
Thanks for the link.
I took a look at the specs on the site and the only thing listed are
cartridge bearing BB which would be great but they don’t have one long
enough listed – the longest is 127mm. Was I looking in the wrong
place? Let me know.
Thanks again for your help with this.
PS: Do you have a website?
Vulcan Drifter
Hi Andrew:
Thanks for the link.
A Muzi
Sorry I was unclear.
Tange Seiki currently makes symmetric cartridge sets, just like everyone
else. None of which are long enough, all of which are symmetric.
We have your vintage original spindle new if you so desire, $19.95.
Phil Wood makes that and more, virtually any format you can imagine in
any thread (including Chater Lea !).
Here is our web address which may or may not have appeared below my
signature. Twice.
http://www.yellowjersey.org/
Here are some similar spindles for a visual comparison:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/bbopt.html
Tange cups sets are shown there as well, for aesthetic purposes.
Merely buying a new current model crank would allow you to use a new
current model cartridge BB set if that's where you want to go:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/cranx2.html
As always, many options.
John Henderson
> Thanks for your note. Yes, it could be "3TR". I've
> reassembled for now with new bearings so I can't confirm but
> it wouldn't be the first time that I suffered from a little
> dyslexia! Thanks for the tip.
>
> Dyslexics Untie!
Indeed. But it may have been Sheldon (or one of Sheldon's
little helpers) who confused their 3TRs with their 3RTs.
John
krems81
> cartridge bearing BB which would be great but they don’t have one long
> enough listed – the longest is 127mm. Was I looking in the wrong
> place? Let me know.
You need the Phil Wood BRS30, on this page: http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/bottombrackets.html.
Its pricey, you could perhaps find a better price somewhere. Phil is
supposed to have lifetime warranty, and I hear good things. I noticed
you said you were willing to spend more for a quality unit, so here it
is!
krems81
Then again, you could by a new spindle from Mr. Muzi. I overlooked
that post. That or the Phil Wood seem to be the options.
krems81
ahem, and with Phil, the bb285 or 286 mounting rings
krems81
ahem, and with Phil, the bb285 or 286 mounting rings
John Henderson
> You need the Phil Wood BRS30, on this page:
> http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/bottombrackets.html.
> Its pricey, you could perhaps find a better price somewhere.
> Phil is supposed to have lifetime warranty, and I hear good
> things. I noticed you said you were willing to spend more for
> a quality unit, so here it is!
Ah, the infamous "lifetime warranty" - literally guaranteed for
as long as it lasts.
That's not to say it isn't a good BB though.
John
John Henderson
> You need the Phil Wood BRS30, on this page:
> http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/bottombrackets.html.
I make it the correct replacement the BRS30S. If Sheldon's
right on http://www.sheldonbrown.com/bbsize.html the BRS30
would significantly alter the chainline.
John
krems81
> krems81 wrote:
> > You need the Phil Wood BRS30, on this page:
> >http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/bottombrackets.html.
>
> I make it the correct replacement the BRS30S. If Sheldon's
> would significantly alter the chainline.
>
> John
If he's replacing a 133mm asymetric with a 130, I would assume that it
should be asymetric as well, especially considering the shorter
overall length, it just makes sense. But I see that entry on the
chart. Almost every other size has an equal or greater symertical
equivalent. Anybody have an explanation for this topsy turvy
phenomenon?
John Henderson
> If he's replacing a 133mm asymetric with a 130, I would assume
> that it should be asymetric as well, especially considering
> the shorter overall length, it just makes sense. But I see
> that entry on the chart. Almost every other size has an equal
> or greater symertical equivalent. Anybody have an explanation
> for this topsy turvy phenomenon?
It's the RH (drive) side protrusion that's important both for
chainline and for chainring clearance.
This is dimension "C" on http://www.sheldonbrown.com/bbsize.html
The other two dimensions are "A" (LH side protrusion), and "B"
(centre section length, bearing to bearing).
The original 3TR (or 3RT) had A = 42mm and C = 39mm. B is
invariant at 52mm.
A symmetrical BB of 130mm overall length has 39mm for both A and
B ((130 - 52) / 2).
So everything stays the same on the all-important RH side, but
the LH crank moves in by 3mm. This is on no consequence.
John