3 speed Sturmey-Archer AW no first gear
spirittoo
Hello ... I have one of the huffy sportsman ... the hub is a
sturmey-archer AW made in 67. I only get 2 and 3rd gear. 1st and 2nd
gear is the same. I tried making adjustments, but still won't work.
Anyone have an idea what the problem is an how I can get all three gears
to work properly?
Thank you for your time.
--
spirittoo
Message origin: www.TRAVEL.com
Chalo
>
> Hello ... I have one of the huffy sportsman ... the hub is a
> sturmey-archer AW made in 67. I only get 2 and 3rd gear. 1st and 2nd
> gear is the same. I tried making adjustments, but still won't work.
> Anyone have an idea what the problem is an how I can get all three gears
> to work properly?
Your hub may have internal parts glued in place with old oil residue.
Short of overhauling it, you can try squirting a tablespoon of two of
Marvel Mystery Oil into the hub's oil port, working it in the two
gears you can get, and letting it sit for a day or so. If it does not
shift into all three gears at that point, then overhaul it.
Sutherland's manual has good instructions for this.
The hub should be in low gear when the indicator chain is pulled out
as far as it will go.
Chalo
someone
I'd give it a week with a light oil if necessary, if it has gummed up
hard then acetone is probably the best varnish remover and is used to
ungum piston rings in internal combustion engines. (a gel is used as a
carrier to limit evaportation). Dont use a gelled product in your
hub, use plain acetone should be available as nailvarnish remover.
Celloluse (paint) thinners may be used if available. The time period
for this to work may be anything from twenty minutes to something less
than eight hours. So if you want it done quick and light houshold oil
doesn't do the job, chuck in some acetone and work it over after five
minutes, return after ten and repeat. Use the acetone with or
following the oil, putting it straight in may not refresh the part
other (beers cannot reach). if you get bored, and its still not
functioning add a little more and leave it for later/tomorrow. Add
some light oil to maitain function, switch to a heavier cycle oil for
correct topping up. Almond oil does not gum and may be a good
viscocity for this hub.
Jobst Brandt
> I have one of the huffy sportsman... the hub is a Sturmey-Archer AW
> made in 67. I only get 2 and 3rd gear. 1st and 2nd gear is the
> same. I tried making adjustments, but still won't work. Anyone
> have an idea what the problem is an how I can get all three gears to
> work properly? Thank you for your time.
I should ask, does the hub make the classic click-click-click when
pedaled in top gear. If it does not, it implies that the low gear
ratchet pawls are not working, either because their frail return
springs are broken or are gummed up with old lubricant.
Take it apart and have a look. They are easy to clean and the tiny
springs are easily replaced.
Jobst Brandt
AMuzi
> Hello ... I have one of the huffy sportsman ... the hub is a
> sturmey-archer AW made in 67. I only get 2 and 3rd gear. 1st and 2nd
> gear is the same. I tried making adjustments, but still won't work.
> Anyone have an idea what the problem is an how I can get all three gears
> to work properly?
> Thank you for your time.
Most likely loose cable, such that low gear is not engaged
(or more correctly the high gear pawls are not being
disengaged).
Oil gearbox if it is dry, adjust bearing such that there is
a trace of play at the rim, ensure indicator is not rusted,
twisted or damaged, ensure axle spacing is sufficient so the
indicator can freely move through right side axle nut,
ensure cable is smooth in its action and rust free with no
bends or kinks in the wire, oil shifter then set the
adjustment so indicator is fully slack in high gear and
fully tight in low. (when you pull the wire in low gear, the
indicator should not travel further)
Those things will comprise the bulk of SA AW service
problems but that is not comprehensive of course.
--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
Ozark Bicycle
> anonymous snipes:
>
"Snipes"??? according to:
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sniping
1) to shoot at exposed individuals
2) to aim a carping or snide attack
Now, let's look at what "spirittoo" wrote:
> > I have one of the huffy sportsman... the hub is a Sturmey-Archer AW
> > made in 67. I only get 2 and 3rd gear. 1st and 2nd gear is the
> > same. I tried making adjustments, but still won't work. Anyone
> > have an idea what the problem is an how I can get all three gears to
> > work properly? Thank you for your time.
Hmmm...looks like a politely worded technical question. Where's the
"sniping", Brandt???
[...]
Jobst Brandt
>> anonymous snipes:
>>> I have one of the huffy sportsman... the hub is a Sturmey-Archer
>>> AW made in 67. I only get 2 and 3rd gear. 1st and 2nd gear is
>>> the same. I tried making adjustments, but still won't work.
>>> Anyone have an idea what the problem is an how I can get all three
>>> gears to work properly? Thank you for your time.
>> I should ask, does the hub make the classic click-click-click when
>> pedaled in top gear. If it does not, it implies that the low gear
>> ratchet pawls are not working, either because their frail return
>> springs are broken or are gummed up with old lubricant.
>> Take it apart and have a look. They are easy to clean and the tiny
>> springs are easily replaced.
> "Snipes"??? according to:
> http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sniping
> 1) to shoot at exposed individuals
> 2) to aim a carping or snide attack
> Now, let's look at what "spirittoo" wrote:
> Hmmm... looks like a politely worded technical question. Where's the
> "sniping", Brandt???
You missed the definition of shooting from cover, as the principle
characteristic of sniping.
What was it in the technical explanation that didn't fit your form?
You might offer any suggestion for the cause of the failure to work in
low gear, or are you just another sniper?
Jobst Brandt
Ozark Bicycle
> Ozark wrote:
> >> anonymous snipes:
> >>> I have one of the huffy sportsman... the hub is a Sturmey-Archer
> >>> AW made in 67. I only get 2 and 3rd gear. 1st and 2nd gear is
> >>> the same. I tried making adjustments, but still won't work.
> >>> Anyone have an idea what the problem is an how I can get all three
> >>> gears to work properly? Thank you for your time.
> >> I should ask, does the hub make the classic click-click-click when
> >> pedaled in top gear. If it does not, it implies that the low gear
> >> ratchet pawls are not working, either because their frail return
> >> springs are broken or are gummed up with old lubricant.
> >> Take it apart and have a look. They are easy to clean and the tiny
> >> springs are easily replaced.
> > "Snipes"??? according to:
> >http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sniping
> > 1) to shoot at exposed individuals
> > 2) to aim a carping or snide attack
> > Now, let's look at what "spirittoo" wrote:
(note that the OP's query was snipped by Brandt, probably to avoid
embarrassment to Brandt - it was, after all, a perfectly legitimate
and politely worede technical question - not "sniping" by any
reasonable definition)
> > Hmmm... looks like a politely worded technical question. Where's the
> > "sniping", Brandt???
>
> You missed the definition of shooting from cover, as the principle
> characteristic of sniping.
>
Shall we put you on record as saying that a politely worded technical
question, as exemplified by the OP's query, constitutes "shooting from
cover", aka, "sniping"?
Sandy
"snipe".
It is a word indicating active and aggressive conduct.
You would do well to treat an unidentified writer as "a stranger" and
the act of inquiry as "asked" and, given the polite terminal salutation,
"politely".
Thus, put in your armory of insipid retorts: "A stranger asked politely."
Was it not you who suggested that anonymity breeds incivility?
Your example is exactly the opposite - the arrogance of posting your
name in a condescending remark leads to the lack of hospitality.
--
Sandy
Verneuil-sur-Seine FR
"Manners are of more importance than laws.
Upon them, in a great measure, the laws depend.
Manners are what vex or soothe,
corrupt or purify, exalt or debase,
barbarize or refine us, by a constant,
steady, uniform, insensible operation,
like that of the air we breathe in."
Burke, E.
spirittoo
Thanks for posting. I will try using the oil ... all I have is WD40 I
hope that will do. If I do have to take it apart will all I have to do
is clean the hub's internal parts or will I have to find parts that need
to be replaced ... and how do I know if a part need to be replaced?
I wanted to change the shifter cable, but I could not find instructions
on how to do it with the shifter I have which is attached to the grip
handle. I'm not sure how to get inside it. I bought a kit that had the
brake and shift cables, but the shift cable that I bought is one
diameter and the one on the 3 speed is 2 different sizes in diameter
.... the part attached to the grip is the same size as the universal
shift cable, but the part going through the pulley to the back of the
wheel is smaller in diameter. I'm not sure about some of the terms you
use such as the "gear pawls" the bearing? Is that the part that goes
into the screw that holds the back wheel on?
When I shift the cable appears to be smooth in it's actions.
What is the difference between high and low gear ... is high 1st gear?
and so on?
I will oil the hub first and get back to you guys. Thanks again for
posting.
spirittoo
Ozark Bicycle
mx.forums.travel.com> politely posted:
> Thanks for posting. I will try using the oil ... all I have is WD40 I
> hope that will do. If I do have to take it apart will all I have to do
> is clean the hub's internal parts or will I have to find parts that need
> to be replaced ... and how do I know if a part need to be replaced?
Here is a link to a source of S-A info:
IME, S-A hubs are actually pretty easy to work on, but some of those
tiny springs can be a bit of a challenge.
Good luck!
someone
wrote:
> Thanks for posting. I will try using the oil ... all I have is WD40 I
> hope that will do.
That's not oil. It may help it to work for a few days by breaking up
any varnish or gunge. It will just show you that real oil will help
if you want it working next week. JB mentioned the ticking in high
gear, that's what you get when the hub is lubed correctly, it
dissapears as the oil thickens. It's a good indicator to the correct
viscocity of oil you are using, too thin and the tick is loud, too
thick and it dissapears completely, A gentle tick is sweet music to
the AW rider. It should be barely perceptible when riding in a quiet
environment.
> If I do have to take it apart will all I have to do
> is clean the hub's internal parts or will I have to find parts that need
> to be replaced ... and how do I know if a part need to be replaced?
Just flush the hub with WD first and see what happens. Work it in
using all the gears. If you find changes in the selction ability,
then you know that proper oil will likely cure your problems.
> I wanted to change the shifter cable, but I could not find instructions
> on how to do it with the shifter I have which is attached to the grip
> handle. I'm not sure how to get inside it. I bought a kit that had the
> brake and shift cables, but the shift cable that I bought is one
> diameter and the one on the 3 speed is 2 different sizes in diameter
> .... the part attached to the grip is the same size as the universal
> shift cable, but the part going through the pulley to the back of the
> wheel is smaller in diameter. I'm not sure about some of the terms you
> use such as the "gear pawls" the bearing? Is that the part that goes
> into the screw that holds the back wheel on?
> When I shift the cable appears to be smooth in it's actions.
> What is the difference between high and low gear ... is high 1st gear?
> and so on?
High means you go further with each pedal rotation, for tailwinds and
downhills. Normal for flat work and no wind. Low for uphill or
headwinds. Walk if you have an uphill and headwind.
> I will oil the hub first and get back to you guys. Thanks again for
> posting.
WD is not oil, it may work for a short time only, you need to get a
medium weight oil.
RonSonic
One cleaning oil option nobody's mentioned that has worked very well for me in
other situations is automatic transmission fluid. It's a light oil with some
very serious detergents and anti-corrosion agents. Does a great job on varnished
old oils and such.
I wouldn't want to use WD40 inside anything I wasn't going to open and clean
out. It has a bad tendency to form ugly gunky emulsions with other products.
That's fine if you're going to wipe it off, but not inside a hub or bottom
bracket.
--
Oh damn. There's that annoying blog. Again. http://dumbbikeblog.blogspot.com
Chalo
>
> someone wrote:
> >
> > WD is not oil, it may work for a short time only, you need to get a
> > medium weight oil.
>
> One cleaning oil option nobody's mentioned that has worked very well for me in
> other situations is automatic transmission fluid. It's a light oil with some
> very serious detergents and anti-corrosion agents. Does a great job on varnished
> old oils and such.
That's a good idea. It shares the same properties that make Marvel
Mystery Oil good for loosening gunked-up mechanisms. ATF is cheap and
easy to find, too.
In either case, it would probably be a good idea to let the thin oil/
sludge mixture drip out after a while, and replace it with 30W after
normal function is restored. Light oils are useful even for things
like gears and bearings, but can run away from the places you'd like
them to linger. Trevor is on the right track in this regard-- but
something with better solvent qualities than "medium weight oil" will
break op sticky accumulations more quickly.
Using almond oil or other food oil as Trevor suggests is far likelier
to cause tenacious gumming of the mechanism in the long term than it
is to free it up in the short term. A shot of biodiesel into the hub,
however, would have a strong cleansing effect.
Chalo
spirittoo
What kind of oil do you recommend and where in the states can I get it?
I used the WD and I'm going to take it for a spin to see how it is. I
will let you know when I get back how it went.
Jobst Brandt
> it? I used the WD and I'm going to take it for a spin to see how it
> is. I will let you know when I get back how it went.
Either 10W motor oil or Sturmey-Archer oil, that is essentially the
same as the quart can of Teletype oil that I still have standing
around for SA hubs. I suppose the ATF oil is as good. WD is mostly
kerosene solvent.
Jobst Brandt
spirittoo
Okay ... I'm back from a six mile ride ... I should clarify about the
gears ... there is no difference between first and second gear ... it's
the same petal torque. That is the problem I'm having ... when I shift
the hand grip the shift chain moves in each gear no problem ... it's
just that the "low" and "normal" gear is the same. I put in the oil and
there is no difference. What could be causing this? Do I have to take
the hub apart? Will I have to have parts?
Jobst Brandt
> Okay... I'm back from a six mile ride... I should clarify about the
> gears... there is no difference between first and second
> gear... it's the same petal torque. That is the problem I'm
> having... when I shift the hand grip the shift chain moves in each
> gear no problem... it's just that the "low" and "normal" gear is the
> same. I put in the oil and there is no difference. What could be
> causing this? Do I have to take the hub apart? Will I have to have
> parts?
How to disassemble the hub is to remove the axle by unscrewing the jam
nut and cone from the right end. Then use a broad tipped screwdriver
to engage one of the two slots and unscrew the right hand threaded cup
by hammering on the screwdriver until it begins to loosen from the
hub. The rest can be done by hand.
I think you'll find that the ratchet pawls on the right end (low gear)
are not articulating for one reason or another. Check for "gum" and
for bent or missing pawl springs. These springs are weak. Most such
hubs do not need to have their left cap removed for maintenance,
especially the steel hubs.
Your problem seems to be that the low gear pawls are not engaging, or
at least not articulating or you would hear them make an over-running
click when riding in high gear.
Jobst Brandt
Frank Krygowski
Let's review.
First, you haven't said much about how you tried to adjust the shift
cable. IMO, that adjustment might still be the problem. I've taken
SA hubs that have sat unused for fifteen years and had them work
perfectly, once their cables were properly adjusted.
If you've followed directions (perhaps found online) to do that
adjustment perfectly, only then should you need to fuss with some
solvent/oil. In that case, the transmission fluid sounds like a good
thing to try. But don't let it sit for just a couple hours. Let it
soak for a few days. Then re-adjust the cable, just to be sure.
If those tricks don't fix it, then you'll disassemble. You probably
won't need parts, just cleaning, reassembling, re-oiling and
readjusting. Here's a site that gives detailed instructions:
http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~hadland/samaintind.htm
As an alternative, I know I found instructions for overhauling SA hubs
in my local library.
Disassembly isn't hard, _if_ you're reasonably good with tools. Some
people would find it to be a challenge, though. Assess your own
mechanical abilities before deciding whether you should do it, or
whether you should take it to a bike shop.
- Frank Krygowski
someone
My suggestion to break up varnish and gum is to use acetone, it needs
a carrier oil so as to reduce evaporation and allow it to work. I had
not considered almond oil for this, I dont know if it will break up
varnish. Almond oil does not gum, it is used as watch oil. A diesel
fuel is definitely one I would recommend for flushing a gear hub if
the malodour is acceptable.
Tim McNamara
spirittoo <spiritto...@no-mx.forums.travel.com> wrote:
The first step is to make sure that the gear adjuster cable is adjusted
properly.
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/sturmey-archer/adj.html
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/sturmey-archer.html
If you need to take it apart:
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/sturmey-archer/aw.html
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/sturmey-archer/reassembly.html
General information:
http://www.hadland.me.uk/samaintind.htm
Sturmey Arche rparts list and technical information:
jay
Isn’t the cable for an SA AW adjusted in 2nd gear w/ the shoulder of
the rod even w/ the end of axel? At least that’s how I remember it
over 50 yrs ago. I certainly don ‘t remember using 1st or 3rd gear to
adjust the center rod or whatever it was called. Has the AW design
changed, or are my 50yr ago memories less sharp that I think?
AMuzi
> the rod even w/ the end of axel? At least that�s how I remember it
> over 50 yrs ago. I certainly don �t remember using 1st or 3rd gear to
> adjust the center rod or whatever it was called. Has the AW design
> changed, or are my 50yr ago memories less sharp that I think?
Yes that was Sturmey's spec then.
Since you have no idea whether the axle or the indicator are
stock and matched length, I'd just ensure the wire is slack
in high and also fully tight in low. The range which
satisfies both is small, check both ends of the shifter
travel. And the other things I noted yesterday.
someone
Yes, select normal and adjust to line up the shoulder.
spirittoo
What kind of oil would you recommend?
someone
wrote:
As long as you've got your cable adjustment correct and the hub is not
making any ticking in high gear, then load it with Diesel oil fuel
until it does start ticking, then use a straight oil (without VI
improvers) of medium viscosity. In other words, not engine oil, and
dont run a hub on auto box oil neither. Any branded 'cycle oil'
should be appropriate for initial running, at least of an AW hub.
Whether you wish to further investigate for the most appropriate oil
is up to you. But if the 'cycle oil' you choose, and I cant be
specific, gives the correct hub response, namely a quieter tick when
running in high gear, then the oil is almost certainly the one you
should continue with. If you do use high grade synthetic oil in your
motor (without the need for any viscocity improvers) then some of this
would be worth a try. It's expensive stuff and I wouldn't be wanting
to buy a litre to see if it worked in a bike hub gear. Scrounging a
little from a neighbour is OK.
Robert Parkins
Tom Kunich
Tom Kunich
AMuzi
For a Sturmey AW or similar gearbox, disconnect the control
cable from the indicator chain. With one hand, pull gently
on that chain while applying intermittent pressure to the
pedal with the other. You should find a point between high
gear and direct where the pedals can spin freely. Then
direct gear, and finally pulling it all the way out, low
gear after you feel the high gear pawls disengage.
Your problem is most probably that the chain is damaged or
too long. Hang it in midair. Do all the links fall in a nice
line and flex easily? They are commonly twisted or smashed
and won't go around the corner of your axle nut. Replace it.
A long indicator rod will not have enough links to bend
through the axle nut. If that's your trouble, a quick fix
is to add a spacer between axle nut and frame. (classic
Sturmey manuals will have you hunting for a different
indicator which is a tough search today)
I assume you already ensured the cable is free to move and
not kinked or damaged. A kinked cable will not shift in any
index system, AW or STi. Finally double check that the
shifter itself can go to the low position without hitting
the grip or anything else. Oil your shifter and indicator BTW.