Replacements for Avocet Fasgrips

[Greg Berchin]

Looking for new tires for my vintage Paramount. Last set was Avocet Fasgrip;
700x25 front and 700x28 rear (bike plus rider exceeds 250 lbs). Can't find
Avocet tires anywhere any more, not even the more recent Carbon series.

I really like the feel of the Avocets. What modern tire comes close, at a
reasonable cost?

Thanks.

[Peter Cole]

I like Paselas, particularly because they're cheaper than the Avocets.

[bfd]

On Sunday, April 29, 2012 12:54:21 PM UTC-7, Greg Berchin wrote:
> Looking for new tires for my vintage Paramount. Last set was Avocet Fasgrip;
> 700x25 front and 700x28 rear (bike plus rider exceeds 250 lbs). Can't find
> Avocet tires anywhere any more, not even the more recent Carbon series.

Avocet tires are no more. The factory that made the last "carbon series," was in Korea and burned down. T

>
> I really like the feel of the Avocets. What modern tire comes close, at a
> reasonable cost?
>

I've been using Michelin. In the US, they're not cheap. If you don't mind mail order, check out some of the UK dealers like Ribble, Chain Reaction Bicycles, Wiggle, Probikekit and others as they usually sell tires at about the same costs as most US wholesalers! Good Luck!
> Thanks.

[Frank Krygowski]

I'm using Paselas, too, and like them pretty well. I think I'd like
them better if they were treadless like the Avocets.

But after today's flat, following a flat two weeks ago, I'm wondering
whether they're flat-prone, or whether it's just coincidence. (It seems
to me flat resistance must be very difficult to measure.)

Both flats were caused by almost microscopic bits of either glass or
very hard stone.

--
- Frank Krygowski

[datakoll]

https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&hl=en&source=hp&biw=1440&bih=794&q=avocet&gbv=2&oq=avocet&aq=f&aqi=g10&aql=&gs_nf=1&gs_l=img.12..0l10.4539.16067.0.19713.10.10.2.0.0.0.649.1986.2-6j5-1.8.0.dJEVsg3aW2Y

[raamman]

> > Thanks.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I'll vouch for the Michelins, they are all Ive ever used for nearly 2
decades. My current set the rear has worn to the belt in a number of
places around the circumference of the tire- I still have not had a
puncture, and even yesterday I did 150k with long unpaved road
sections.

[thirty-six]

On Apr 30, 3:57 am, Frank Krygowski <frkrygowREM...@gEEmail.com>
wrote:

> Peter Cole wrote:
> > On 4/29/2012 3:54 PM, Greg Berchin wrote:
> >> Looking for new tires for my vintage Paramount. Last set was Avocet
> >> Fasgrip;
> >> 700x25 front and 700x28 rear (bike plus rider exceeds 250 lbs). Can't
> >> find
> >> Avocet tires anywhere any more, not even the more recent Carbon series.
>
> >> I really like the feel of the Avocets. What modern tire comes close, at a
> >> reasonable cost?
>
> >> Thanks.
>
> > I like Paselas, particularly because they're cheaper than the Avocets.
>
> I'm using Paselas, too, and like them pretty well.  I think I'd like
> them better if they were treadless like the Avocets.

Use a hot iron before peeling off the tread. ;-)

>
> But after today's flat, following a flat two weeks ago, I'm wondering
> whether they're flat-prone, or whether it's just coincidence.  (It seems
> to me flat resistance must be very difficult to measure.)

Resistance is useless. ;-)

[thirty-six]

On Apr 30, 11:58 am, thirty-six <thirty-...@live.co.uk> wrote:
> On Apr 30, 3:57 am, Frank Krygowski <frkrygowREM...@gEEmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Peter Cole wrote:
> > > On 4/29/2012 3:54 PM, Greg Berchin wrote:
> > >> Looking for new tires for my vintage Paramount. Last set was Avocet
> > >> Fasgrip;
> > >> 700x25 front and 700x28 rear (bike plus rider exceeds 250 lbs). Can't
> > >> find
> > >> Avocet tires anywhere any more, not even the more recent Carbon series.
>
> > >> I really like the feel of the Avocets. What modern tire comes close, at a
> > >> reasonable cost?
>
> > >> Thanks.
>
> > > I like Paselas, particularly because they're cheaper than the Avocets.
>
> > I'm using Paselas, too, and like them pretty well.  I think I'd like
> > them better if they were treadless like the Avocets.
>
> Use a hot iron before peeling off the tread.   ;-)
>
>
>
> > But after today's flat, following a flat two weeks ago, I'm wondering
> > whether they're flat-prone, or whether it's just coincidence.  (It seems
> > to me flat resistance must be very difficult to measure.)
>
> Resistance is useless.  ;-)

It'd be helpful to use more rubber,

save the world from little Krygos

[landotter]

On Apr 29, 4:37 pm, Peter Cole <peter_c...@verizon.net> wrote:
> On 4/29/2012 3:54 PM, Greg Berchin wrote:
>
> > Looking for new tires for my vintage Paramount. Last set was Avocet Fasgrip;
> > 700x25 front and 700x28 rear (bike plus rider exceeds 250 lbs). Can't find
> > Avocet tires anywhere any more, not even the more recent Carbon series.
>

> > I really like the feel of the Avocets. What modern tre comes close, at a

> > reasonable cost?
>
> > Thanks.
>
> I like Paselas, particularly because they're cheaper than the Avocets.

Paselas are just fine. Available now AFAIK in blackwall. The gf and I
have been impressed with the Gnashbar "Streetwise" tires she got
unmounted as a bonus with a used bike purchase. 35mm claimed, 32mm on
rim, 430g, supple enough, nearly slick, and incredible flat
resistance. It's a shame they don't come in a 28 or 30. Tread life
might be limited if they're still using the same supplier as a few
years ago--but at 100lb wet, she doesn't test that very well...

[BCDrums]

Raamman, which Miuches are you using? What do you recommend for a 28
or 32mm, 700c?

The last Michelin tire I can remember using was the Supercomp HD in a
23mm. It's the only tire I have ridden that seemed supple.

BC

[thirty-six]

I remember various Hi-Lites, supple to an extent, but energy
sappers. I switched to Hutchinsons which always gave good rolling,
cornering grip and reasonably low rolling force for a good price.
\can't really say anything about today's market, I've got old
Hutchinson training tubs fitted (2-ply cold assembly).

[raamman]

> BC- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

I started with their biaxials when they came out ( folding, I usually
rode the 20c spring, summmer and fall- when I had the choice, other
times it would be the 23c)- now Im rolling on the Krylon folding
700x23c since the biaxails seem to have been discontinued- (ages ago).
I tend to stock up when I see a good deal as I used to go through
stuff in no time at all. I've read a number of posts extolling the
virues of larger width tires and lower pressures, but Ive gone as
narrow as I could and higher psi- currently I set at 100 psi as I
found 120 tended to destroy my rims- but seriously I ve found the
michelins to be real gems, I put Michelins on my car too, I figure if
they could produce such quality for a niche market they deserved my
business in the other.

[Jay Beattie]

The Pro3 Race has good wet grip -- better than the Lithion, although
I don't know much about the current iteration of either tire. I can't
keep up with the constant model changes. I get the Pro Races when
they go on sale, but only for use on my light bike -- which currently
has the Lithions because I wore out the Pro3 Races and got the
Lithions off a sale table.

The old SuperComp HD had wet grip comparable or better than the Pro
Race but were less sew-up like at 100psi. IMO, the Pro Race ride as
well as any sew-up I owned, particularly since I never rode silks
because they were too squishy feeling to me. Modern clinchers are as
good as the cotton Vittoria CX/CGs I used to ride back in the day. --
Jay Beattie.

[Greg Berchin]

My thanks to all who answered.

The Pasela looks promising, as does the T-Serv (which appears to be a blackwall
Pasela) and even the RiBMo (which is just a bit heavy, but I like the tread).

[Chalo]

Frank Krygowski wrote:
>
> I'm using Paselas, too, and like them pretty well.  I think I'd like
> them better if they were treadless like the Avocets.
>
> But after today's flat, following a flat two weeks ago, I'm wondering
> whether they're flat-prone, or whether it's just coincidence.  (It seems
> to me flat resistance must be very difficult to measure.)

Paselas don't put up much resistance to punctures. That's just
corollary to their method of achieving such a nice ride at reasonable
cost-- thin flexible casing, relatively thin tread, no sub-tread
belt. For what it's worth, they seem to hold off punctures much
better when new or nearly new than after they have a lot of use, even
when the tread still looks fine. I never replace Paselas because the
tread is worn out-- only because they have a rash of punctures in a
short period. And then I usually replace them with something tougher
for a change.

My neighborhood is a pretty drinky place with lots of bars and beer
stores, so glass is always a factor, and I have been choosing
generally hardier tires as a result. My first choice now for a fast,
sweet-riding tire that isn't plagued by flats is the Panaracer RiBMo.
It doesn't feel the same as a Pasela (mostly due to a non-round cross-
section I think), but it beats any other tire I've tried that has
effective puncture protection. The RiBMo costs almost twice what the
Pasela does, but so far that looks likely to be cheaper on a per-mile
basis.

Chalo

[Chalo]

The Pasela, Pasela TG, and T-Serv are all very similar looking tires,
but with quite different construction. The TG version features an
armor belt that in my opinion takes away the sweet ride quality of the
Pasela. T-Serv is better armored yet, and though I have not spent a
lot of miles on it, the protection seems to come without noticeable
ride or resistance penalty versus the Pasela TG (but with increased
cost).

I prefer the RiBMo for its ride, handling characteristics, and
apparently low rolling resistance along with excellent puncture
protection, but one of my co-mechanics swears by the T-Serv for the
same reasons.

Chalo

[Lou Holtman]

Op 1-5-2012 16:40, Jay Beattie schreef:

Does no one in the US run Continental GP4000S? By far the best all
round tire I ever used. Beats Michelin Pro3Race on every aspect.

Lou

[Jay Beattie]

Yes, but those are out of my price range, even at Nashbar.
http://www.nashbar.com/bikes/Product_10053_10052_139387_-1_202642_10000_202354

On regular sale, I can get Pro3 Race for about half the price.
http://www.nashbar.com/bikes/Product_10053_10052_525771_-1___ I find
it hard to believe that the Conti would be twice as good.

My brother had the GP 4000 on his bike and got a big sidewall cut on
his first ride. $70 down the drain, although he did get some service
out of the tire after booting it.
-- Jay Beattie.

[Dave Lehnen]

Lou Holtman wrote:
<snip>

> Does no one in the US run Continental GP4000S? By far the best all round
> tire I ever used. Beats Michelin Pro3Race on every aspect.
>
> Lou

Yes, much more puncture and cut-resistant and longer-wearing in my
experience, and supposedly less rolling resistance and better wet grip,
according to tests by Tour magazine. They're my favorite race clinchers
so far. Usually the Michelins are cheaper, especially the Pro3 which is
in closeout, replaced by the supposedly superior Pro4.

Dave Lehnen

[bfd]

I'm currently using 700x25 Lithions on my bike and initially didn't like the feel because of the center ridge. However, once that started wearing down, I find the tire to be actually pretty decent, especially for commuting where there is lots of glass and other crap (can you say that on this forum?) on the street. In fact, its alot more durable than the Avocet "carbon" tire I have on my other wheelset.

I do have a pair of ProRace3 in my stash, but have heard its not so durable. Maybe I'll put them on my "light" wheelset and use them for long rides.

>
> The old SuperComp HD had wet grip comparable or better than the Pro
> Race but were less sew-up like at 100psi. IMO, the Pro Race ride as
> well as any sew-up I owned, particularly since I never rode silks
> because they were too squishy feeling to me. Modern clinchers are as
> good as the cotton Vittoria CX/CGs I used to ride back in the day. --
> Jay Beattie.

Yeah, I too like those old SuperComp HD, to bad they're gone! As for tubulars, there's still one guy in our group, who's the retro grouch, and won't ever give them up even on his lightest bike with current parts. Bottom line - If he *thinks* it gives him an "advantage" and that gets him out and riding, then I'm all for it! Good Luck!

[Lou Holtman]

Op dinsdag 1 mei 2012 22:56:43 UTC+2 schreef Jay Beattie het volgende:

> On May 1, 11:40 am, Lou Holtman <lou.holt...@usenet.nl> wrote:
> > Op 1-5-2012 16:40, Jay Beattie schreef:

> >

> > Does no one in the US run Continental GP4000S?  By far the best all
> > round tire I ever used. Beats Michelin Pro3Race on every aspect.
>
> Yes, but those are out of my price range, even at Nashbar.
> http://www.nashbar.com/bikes/Product_10053_10052_139387_-1_202642_10000_202354
>
> On regular sale, I can get Pro3 Race for about half the price.
> http://www.nashbar.com/bikes/Product_10053_10052_525771_-1___ I find
> it hard to believe that the Conti would be twice as good.
>
> My brother had the GP 4000 on his bike and got a big sidewall cut on
> his first ride. $70 down the drain, although he did get some service
> out of the tire after booting it.
> -- Jay Beattie.

Ah, that explains it then. Again you are on the wrong side of the pond. They are, at the moment, 53,50 euro for two of them. I bought a stash when they were on sale last year for 49.95 euro for two of them.

<http://www.bike-components.de/products/info/p16016_Grand-Prix-4000-S-2er-Set-Faltreifen-.html>

Lou

[AMuzi]

RiBMo is a tougher hypertex casing with a thicker harder
tread than a Pasela. If 'tough' is your #1 criterion, good
choice. Pasela, with less weight and more lively 'feel'
outsells RiBMo about 20:1 here.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[James]

Sidewall cuts can happen to any tyre.

I had a run of Conti tyres getting all bulged and snake like. Never had
that problem with Michelins. I use Krylion and just take it a bit easy
in the wet.

These days there's probably little in it between the GP4000 and ProRace,
except price.

http://www.conti-online.com/generator/www/de/en/continental/bicycle/general/downloads/download/tourtest_gp4000s_en.pdf

< 2 Watts?

--
JS.

[Chalo]

AMuzi wrote:

>
> Greg Berchin wrote:
> >
> > The Pasela looks promising, as does the T-Serv (which appears to be a blackwall
> > Pasela) and even the RiBMo (which is just a bit heavy, but I like the tread).
>
> RiBMo is a tougher hypertex casing with a thicker harder
> tread than a Pasela. If 'tough' is your #1 criterion, good
> choice. Pasela, with less weight and more lively 'feel'
> outsells RiBMo about 20:1 here.

My ratio (and my wife's) of punctures per mileage with the Pasela
versus the RiBMo is higher than that. So far, the RiBMos are a big
win in terms of elapsed time.

If "tough" is the #1 criterion without regard for other factors, I'd
go for Schwalbe Marathon Plus, Conti Contact Security, Michelin Pilot
City, or CST Salvo over the Panaracer RiBMo.

RiBMo seems to me like an alternative to the Continental Gatorskin
series, with comparable ride qualities but much more effective
protection.

Chalo

[raamman]

> Yes, but those are out of my price range, even at Nashbar.http://www.nashbar.com/bikes/Product_10053_10052_139387_-1_202642_100...
>
> On regular sale, I can get Pro3 Race for about half the price.http://www.nashbar.com/bikes/Product_10053_10052_525771_-1___ I find

> it hard to believe that the Conti would be twice as good.
>
> My brother had the GP 4000 on his bike and got a big sidewall cut on
> his first ride. $70 down the drain, although he did get some service
> out of the tire after booting it.

> -- Jay Beattie.- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

yup sidewall cut; same here, I remember because I was so pissed, new
tires cut on gravel shoulder rolling off road for a stop, 1st and only
time I used conti (before I discovered michelin).

[Nate Nagel]

In this case you probably made a good choice - I have no experience with
Michelin bicycle tires but they've consistently made good auto and truck
tires for years - but I've heard people make positive comments about
Continental bicycle tires, and the last Conti car tires I had were so
bad that I replaced them before they were worn out and haven't
considered them since. Granted, this was a decade ago, but why take the
chance when Michelins are readily available?

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

[Jay Beattie]

I'm not ragging Contis for sidewall cuts, although I have heard that
criticism. I commute regularly on Supersports, and they're holding up
fine. A true disappointment, though, was the Pasella (28mm). I sliced
up two tires before the tread was half-worn. I liked the more
aggressive tread pattern for fall riding riding, though. -- Jay
Beattie.

[Lou Holtman]

Op 2-5-2012 14:04, raamman schreef:

I rode Michelin Pro(2)Race for years and for the last 2 years
Continental GP4000S exclusively on all my road bikes. I can say that my
experience is:

- Michelins Pro(2)Race are much more prone to cuts,
- Michelins Pro(2)Race are much more prone to flats,
- Michelins Pro(2)Race wear faster,
- for the lesser RR of the Continental GP4000S I have to rely on the
figures TOUR magazine has measured year after year.

Both tires are performance tires and if you hit a big rock with their
sidewall it could be seriously damaged. I have sidewall cuts on both
tires occasionally. All this is based on the experience of not only one
tire for both. The Michelins are no bad tires, but the Continental
GP4000S are better and that for the same price. I find 26 euro's a
killer deal for a GP4000S. I ride these tires all year round now even
for training/bad weather. 8000 km a year on my road bikes. That is 2
GP4000S tires/yr. Best spent 52 euro of my annual cycling budget. No
cheap/crap tires for me anymore. If they are on sale again, I buy
another dozen.

YMMV though,

Lou

[raamman]

yeah, it's kinda wierd how some have great experiences with one brand
of tire and others quite the opposite. regardless, whatever works,
keeping on the roll is the main thing

[Jay Beattie]

> >> On regular sale, I can get Pro3 Race for about half the price.http://www.nashbar.com/bikes/Product_10053_10052_525771_-1___I find

I wonder why the huge price difference in the US versus Europe.
Shipping is an issue, but it should not double the price. Your price
converted to dollars is about $34. That's a hell of a deal.

BTW, I've had good luck with the Pro3 Race in terms of durability
although not longevity, but none of my lightweight racing tires last
that long -- except the tires with hard rubber compounds that have
poor wet traction and that I regret purchasing, like some of those
sale table Performance Vredesteins.

-- Jay Beattie.

[raamman]

I just found competive cyclist got Michelins for $30


I'm curious Jay, you sound like you regularly carve the corners in the
wet- do you ? although I used to go out in the worst weather, I just
don t have the time to clean and maintain things properly after
anymore-so I try to avoid it; still, I never had reason to risk things
by going wild in a wet corner or a curve. I admit I did find wet
cornering to be dicey sometimes as I found the speed you hit the
pavement at is the speed you continue to slide across at too. wet
traction properties not a deciding factor in my tire choice or
advocacy.

[James]

At least when you slide across the road in the wet, the same lubricity
that got you sliding, tends to reduce the crocodile bite from the road
on your skin.

But I'm with you. I try to avoid wet weather. I don't think Jay can
afford that luxury in his neck of the woods, otherwise he'd not ride a
bike much.

--
JS.

[Jay Beattie]

> advocacy.- Hide quoted text -


I carve the corners in the wet only on my skis (except you stick to
spring snow instead of slip, which is a problem this time of the
year).

Oddly enough, where I test traction is climbing and usually not
descending. Testing wet traction (comparing traction) on a twisting
down hill is hard because of road camber and reproducing the effective
lean angle . . . and not wanting to crash. OTOH, I ride up the same
hills over and over again when I commute, and I can get a pretty good
sense of traction based on how my rear wheel slips-out when climbing
in and out of the saddle. It's not subtle. Some tires just don't
grip, and you slip every other pedal stroke.

By the way, I ride in the rain a lot, but mostly on my CX bike with
28mm Supersports and 35 fatties during winter. I ride in the rain on
my racing bike only when I make a wrong prediction and get stuck in a
downpour. But, I still ride my racing bike on a lot of wet roads,
because up in the hills, the roads stay wet for a long time. I take it
pretty easy on the twisting descents. I save my craziness (such as it
is at my age) for dry pavement.

-- Jay Beattie.

[Lou Holtman]

Op donderdag 3 mei 2012 03:14:44 UTC+2 schreef Jay Beattie het volgende:

>
> By the way, I ride in the rain a lot, but mostly on my CX bike with
> 28mm Supersports and 35 fatties during winter. I ride in the rain on
> my racing bike only when I make a wrong prediction and get stuck in a
> downpour. But, I still ride my racing bike on a lot of wet roads,
> because up in the hills, the roads stay wet for a long time. I take it
> pretty easy on the twisting descents. I save my craziness (such as it
> is at my age) for dry pavement.
>
> -- Jay Beattie.

I save my craziness to that German lunatik:

<http://tv.tour-magazin.de/video/Reifentest-Nasshaftung/c8edbb9acd8b8e70524f60e8ebc01fb5>

Lou

[Jay Beattie]

On May 3, 1:39 am, Lou Holtman <lou.holt...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Op donderdag 3 mei 2012 03:14:44 UTC+2 schreef Jay Beattie het volgende:
>
>
>
> > By the way, I ride in the rain a lot, but mostly on my CX bike with
> > 28mm Supersports and 35 fatties during winter.  I ride in the rain on
> > my racing bike only when I make a wrong prediction and get stuck in a
> > downpour.  But, I still ride my racing bike on a lot of wet roads,
> > because up in the hills, the roads stay wet for a long time. I take it
> > pretty easy on the twisting descents.  I save my craziness (such as it
> > is at my age) for dry pavement.
>
> > -- Jay Beattie.
>
> I save my craziness to that German lunatik:
>

Or this one: http://sheldonbrown.com/brandt/

This is the "dry day" wet descending that I was thinking about down
one of the popular West Hills routes -- popular with guys on
motorcycles, too. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NPqQptjbF0

[Art Harris]

Greg Berchin wrote:
> Looking for new tires for my vintage Paramount. Last set was Avocet Fasgrip;
> 700x25 front and 700x28 rear (bike plus rider exceeds 250 lbs). Can't find
> Avocet tires anywhere any more, not even the more recent Carbon series.
>

> I really like the feel of the Avocets. What modern tire comes close, at a
> reasonable cost?
>

Avocets were made by IRC (Inoue [sp?] Rubber Company) in Japan. I have
a stash of IRC Road Winners that have I've been very pleased with in
terms of flat protection and mileage. Unfortunately, they aren't
available anymore either. The last of them were made in Korea, and
weren't up to previous standards.

I've tried the Pasela and they seem ok.

Art Harris

[Tom $herman (-_-)]

Clean wet pavement can provide about 80% of the traction of dry
pavement. However, new asphalt that is "bleeding" oil, or where there
has been a coolant or Diesel spill can be more slippery than ice.

--
Tºm Shermªn - 42.435731°N, 83.985007°W
Post Free or Die!

[Tom $herman (-_-)]

On 5/1/2012 3:00 PM, bfd wrote:
> I'm currently using 700x25 Lithions on my bike and initially didn't like the feel because of the center ridge. However, once that started wearing down, I find the tire to be actually pretty decent, especially for commuting where there is lots of glass and other crap (can you say that on this forum?)

> [...]

Hell no, you cannot say shit like "crap" on this newsgroup.

[Tom $herman (-_-)]

On 5/2/2012 9:32 AM, Nate Nagel wrote:
> In this case you probably made a good choice - I have no experience with
> Michelin bicycle tires but they've consistently made good auto and truck
> tires for years - but I've heard people make positive comments about
> Continental bicycle tires, and the last Conti car tires I had were so
> bad that I replaced them before they were worn out and haven't
> considered them since. Granted, this was a decade ago, but why take the
> chance when Michelins are readily available?

These Michelin tires are excellent:
<https://fbcdn-photos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/305113_2463600360853_1577568887_2469580_1664346701_a.jpg>.

At least the older Conti GP tires had fragile sidewalls that lacked
durability.

[Tom $herman (-_-)]

On 5/1/2012 5:22 PM, Çhâlõ Çólîñã wrote:
> [...]

> If "tough" is the #1 criterion without regard for other factors, I'd
> go for Schwalbe Marathon Plus, Conti Contact Security, Michelin Pilot

> City, or CST Salvo over the Panaracer RiBMo.[...]

If you want tough tires, get a bicycle that can use Maxxis Hookworms.

[Chalo]

┬ʘ₥ ₴ⱨ℮ṝᶬᶏᾗ wrote:
>
> Çhâlõ Çólîñã wrote:
> > [...]
> > If "tough" is the #1 criterion without regard for other factors, I'd
> > go for Schwalbe Marathon Plus, Conti Contact Security, Michelin Pilot
> > City, or CST Salvo over the Panaracer RiBMo.[...]
>
> If you want tough tires, get a bicycle that can use Maxxis Hookworms.

There are single-ply and two-ply Hookworms, the former being
equivalent to the much less expensive CST Cyclops made by the same
manufacturer. (26 x 2.4" CST Cyclops tires are probably the single
most popular tire fitted to Austin's 200 or so pedicab trikes.) None
of the above is equipped with an anti-puncture belt. They are all as
simple in their construction as unbelted Paselas, only made of thicker
and coarser materials.

Thus I'd trust the sidewall of a two-ply Hookworm over just about any
other bicycle tire, but for resistance to normal punctures I'd go for
something with an effective armor belt.

Chalo

[raamman]

It makes a big difference in relating how you qualified your opinion.
Thank you for that. The absolute best wet cornering tires I ve used
were a grey compound tire made by specialized way way back when.I
think umma gumma it was called. The tire did get a bad rep- for some
reason- I acknowledge they wore fast- BUTT- I did race then and I
literally carved corners at speed in the wet; I loved hearing the
ripping sound they made. I can tell the michelins I use could not
match that- but priorities change and reliability is pretty much the
only criteria for me nowadays.

[Lou Holtman]

Op vrijdag 4 mei 2012 14:16:00 UTC+2 schreef raamman het volgende:

> but priorities change and reliability is pretty much the
> only criteria for me nowadays.

I can't believe that if you are not riding solid tires.


Lou

[thirty-six]

Use a wider section with supple carcass for a greater available slip-
angle. Less than 23mm just can't corner hard with nomal tread
compounds, even in the dry and when you lean a narrow HP over in the
dry it easily get to riding the rim resulting in banging the road on a
bumpy corner and the possibility of a slide on the slightest bit of
dust.

[Jay Beattie]

The first generation Umma Gumma were death traps! IIRC, they had a
clay based pigment, no carbon black and no silica. I was descending a
twisting, wet road, passed a car and promptly crashed right in front
of it. Luckily, I did not get squashed, although my wife sure let me
have it. We were both racing back then and training together, and she
was about fifty yards behind me riding sensibly.

The 7-11 Team used them and quit because they were having so many
crashes. I think Specialized changed the compound and put in a silica
filler, but I'm not sure. I quit using them and went back to the
Michelin SupercompHDs. Michelin also had a tire back then (the name
escapes me) with a clay based pigmented filler. It was similarly
scary. The pre-silica colored tires were terrible in wet weather. It
has taken manufactures a while to get the right mix of silica and soft
rubber compounds to produce a tire that rolls well and has good grip,
but I think we're at least to the point of being back to ground zero
-- that is, where we were with plain old carbon black tires like the
SupercompHD or the Avocet tires. But thank god for colors. What would
we do without fuchsia colored tires?

-- Jay Beattie.

[Tom $herman (-_-)]

If you want a really tough tire, build a custom bike and wheels that
will fit a 120/70-17 Bridgestone Battlax BT-020. I hit what looked to
be a 2"x2"x1" steel spacer block at ~70 mph with no tire damage.

The sound of the block impacting the front of the SUV tail-gating me was
pretty cool. :)

[raamman]

On May 4, 10:24 am, Jay Beattie <jbeat...@lindsayhart.com> wrote:

>
> The first generation Umma Gumma were death traps!  IIRC, they had a
> clay based pigment, no carbon black and no silica.  I was descending a
> twisting, wet road, passed a car and promptly crashed right in front
> of it.  Luckily, I did not get squashed, although my wife sure let me
> have it.  We were both racing back then and training together, and she
> was about fifty yards behind me riding sensibly.
>
> The 7-11 Team used them and quit because they were having so many
> crashes. I think Specialized changed the compound and put in a silica
> filler, but I'm not sure.  I quit using them and went back to the
> Michelin SupercompHDs.  Michelin also had a tire back then (the name
> escapes me) with a clay based pigmented filler.  It was similarly
> scary.  The pre-silica colored tires were terrible in wet weather.  It
> has taken manufactures a while to get the right mix of silica and soft
> rubber compounds to produce a tire that rolls well and has good grip,
> but I think we're at least to the point of being back to ground zero
> -- that is, where we were with plain old carbon black tires like the
> SupercompHD or the Avocet tires. But thank god for colors.  What would
> we do without fuchsia colored tires?
>
> -- Jay Beattie.

that's actually the wierd thing; my own experience was quite the
opposite of yours (and others) - thus I was inclined to make my post.
what I observed with my umma gummas is that they tended to pick up a
lot of grit from the road and developed a sandpaper like surface- they
were crap on wet steel or in frozen conditions- but everytime I leaned
as hard into a wet corner with any other tire I wiped out- what else
can I say ?