Noisy Campy drive train
AlanL
Centaur 10 Triple gruppo, except for one thing: When I'm using the
middle chainring, the drive train is slightly noisy if I'm in any of
the four smallest cogs. It's wonderfully quiet in the larger cogs. I
can't seem to adjust it away (using the cable barrel adjusters). Not
sure if I'd get the same noise using the other chainrings (I don't use
them very often).
The bike shifts fine, and when it makes that noise, it doesn't seem to
be threatening to shift out of the gear. It just doesn't seem to be as
quiet as it should be.
Any suggestions?
Alan
Joel
chain ring.
AlanL
issue; I know how to properly trim it as I shift through the rear
cogs.
The noise is definitely coming from the cogs.
Other ideas?
App
>Other ideas?
Two things:
1. Has the chain alignment been set to be perfect on the sixth cog?
The proper method (or that prescribed by Campy) is to shift to the
sixth cog in the rear and set the chain alignment. This will optimize
the der position over the cogset. Compared to a Shimano 10 drivetrain,
my Campy is silent (could be my chain cleaning regimen - see below).
2. New chain, I presume? Thoroughly clean the chain in a strong
solvent to remove the factory lube and re-lube with Prolink. I clean
my chain on the bike with Prolink per their instructions every ~150
miles and my chains go forever (3,000 miles on one of them and NO
detectable stretch). And they are quiet.
Good luck.
App
Pete Biggs
Is it noisier after using the thumb button and shifting to a smaller cog
(noiser than how it is after changing to a larger cog)? If so, it's due
to some play in the Ergo that lets it release a little too much cable,
which is only taken back up next time the finger lever is used.
Tightening the cable should stop this particular problem but then indexing
and shifting will be affected in other ways.
Hanger alignment can also be a factor.
~PB
AlanL
Don't know. I'll have a look. By sixth, I presume you mean five cogs
over from the SMALLEST cog, right?
>>2. New chain, I presume? Thoroughly clean the chain in a strong
solvent to remove the factory lube and re-lube with Prolink. >>
Yes, it is a new chain. I've lubed it, but did not clean it first. I'll
try that. (For several years, I've quite happily used a "home brew"
lube that seems to be very similar to Prolink (three parts of odorless
mineral spirits, one part Mobil 1 synthetic oil. It's always worked
well on my Shimano bikes -- quiet, clean and chains are long-lived).
AlanL
(noiser than how it is after changing to a larger cog)? If so, it's
due
to some play in the Ergo that lets it release a little too much cable,
which is only taken back up next time the finger lever is used. >>
I haven't really noticed, but I'll pay attention to that on my next
ride. Now, if it'll only stop raining...
App
>By sixth, I presume you mean five cogs
>over from the SMALLEST cog, right?
Actually, no (twice). Campy meant the sixth cog counting the largest
as #1.
Sorry 'bout the lack of clarity on my part.
Again, best o' luck.
App
Donald Gillies
more noisy than others. It may manifest itself when the chain is
changing directions more, perhaps, in the small rear gears.
2. If you don't user other chainrings very often, then perhaps its
just that your derailleur isn't wrapping the chain very well. To
confirm this, try the big chainring - should be no noise in any
gears - then try the small chainring - should be noise in more
gears than ever.
good luck,
- Don Gillies
San Diego, CA
AlanL
It's Campy Record, so I wouldn't think that would be an issue.
>>If you don't user other chainrings very often, then perhaps its just that your derailleur isn't wrapping the chain very well. To confirm this, try the big chainring - should be no noise in any gears - then try the small chainring - should be noise in more gears than ever.
>>
I'll add that to my list of things to try. This is a triple, with the
long cage RD. Could the use of the long cage derailleur have any
impact on whether the chain is under sufficient tension when it's on a
small cog? Could the chain be too long, too?
AlanL
OK, after 25 miles, I can report:
It doesn't matter whether I downshift or upshift into those smaller
cogs. And being in the large chain ring does not eliminate the
noise,either. I also could not eliminate the chatter by playing with
the barrel adjuster on the RD cable.
I still haven't checked on two other suggestions made here: Checking
the chainline or cleaning and relubing the chain. Maybe I'll get a
chance this weekend.
Someone told me that if the cassette lockring is too tight it can
scrunch together the smaller cogs slightly, causing some misalignment.
Anyone ever heard of that?
AlanL
App
>
> Someone told me that if the cassette lockring is too tight it can
> scrunch together the smaller cogs slightly, causing some misalignment.
> Anyone ever heard of that?
Oh, man, who told you that? As Peter C. would say, that's pure
bugleoil.
App, who could be wrong but...
O-V R:nen
> Could the chain be too long, too?
That's certainly one possibility. Check that the position of the
pulleys looks acceptable throughout the full range of gear
combinations. In particular, the chain should NOT wrap around
the non-pulley parts of the derailleur cage when using the smaller
sprockets+chainrings. (Been there, done that...)
Donald Gillies
30-42-53 on the front ?? Is it a centaur front crankset ??
What's on the rear ?? Is it a campagnolo cassette ??
Donald Gillies
>OK, after 25 miles, I can report:
>It doesn't matter whether I downshift or upshift into those smaller
>cogs. And being in the large chain ring does not eliminate the
>noise,either. I also could not eliminate the chatter by playing with
>the barrel adjuster on the RD cable.
All gear trains can sound noisy with just a small amount of rear
jockey wheel misalignment in relation to cassette cog - even with
less than 1/2 of a gear change of misalignment, the chain as it goes
from jockey onto the rear cog can make a lot of noise. This is worse
on campy derailleurs, i think, because they don't have floating upper
wheels so they need better alignment.
My suggestion is to do whatever it takes to ensure rear derailleur
alignment with small rear cogs when you're in the middle ring on the
front. Have you tried oiling the parallelogram pivots when the mech
is on the small gears (e.g. to eliminate any stickiness when trying to
get out to those small gears) ??). Oil the parallelogram and work the
parallelogram cage back and forth to make sure it's not just a little
bit sticky moving among the smaller cogs.
Once you're sure the parallelogram moves freely, tune the gear system
in the noisy gears to eliminate the noise. You could do this right
away with the limit bolts and one single gear to see if the noise
disappears. On a bike stand you or even upside down (on grass of
course), check that the chain feeds straight from the upper jockey
wheel to the rear cog. there _must_ be no noise in this case if you
are to solve the problem.
If the chain feeds straight and it's still noisy, then it's time to
consider problems like (a) somehow the upper pulley is too close to
the freewheel, possibly but very unlikely, (b) there is some sort of
mismatch in your gear train, between chain type / jockey wheel /
cassette type or cassette tooth type.
Regina freewheels were always very noisy but the sound is like the hum
of a ferrari engine to a retro racer ... you can hear the masi gear
train when "Dave" races against the russian team in "Breaking Away"...
- don gillies
san diego, ca
AlanL
The rear is a 12-25 Campy cassette. I believe it's a Chorus. Chain is
Record. Balance of the drive train is Centaur; RD is the long cage
version.
Pete Biggs
> All gear trains can sound noisy with just a small amount of rear
> jockey wheel misalignment in relation to cassette cog - even with
> less than 1/2 of a gear change of misalignment, the chain as it goes
> from jockey onto the rear cog can make a lot of noise. This is worse
> on campy derailleurs, i think, because they don't have floating upper
> wheels so they need better alignment.
They do have floating upper jockey wheels.
~PB
Kovie
news:1120145214....@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Can you describe what kind of noise you hear? E.g. whiney, squeeky, rubbing,
grinding, scraping, etc. Different noises generally indicate different
problems.
I have a Campy Centaur triple setup (30-42-53, 12-25 10 cog cassette,
long-reach cage rd), and it's never made any unusual noises that I can
remember. It's not completely silent, mind you, which is of course
unachievable, but the sounds it makes are what I would expect a modern,
high-quality, clean, well-lubed drivetrain to make (i.e. a smooth whooshing
or whirring sound).
--
Kovie
ko...@earthlink.netizen
Donald Gillies
I checked my 2003 chorus derailleur. The upper jockey wheel does not
float in/out. Since the 2003 chorus derailleur became the 2004
centaur derailleur, I think that you are mistaken about this fact.
AlanL
just that your derailleur isn't wrapping the chain very well. To
confirm this, try the big chainring - should be no noise in any
gears - then try the small chainring - should be noise in more
gears than ever. >>
OK. More data. Cleaned and lubed the chain, lubed all the derailleur
pivot points. Took another 25 mile ride. This time, it DOES seem like
riding in the large chainring minimizes the "chattering" noise I hear.
So, what would I do to help the derailleur more effectively wrap the
chain?
(Just to review, we're talking new Campy Centaur long cage rear
derailleur, triple chainrings (53-42-30), 12-25 cassette.)
Thanks to all for the suggestions. I think we're getting close to a
solution here!
Pete Biggs
I've owned five modern Campagnolo rear derailleurs* and they all had
floating upper jockey wheels. Perhaps you mean something different by
"float" or perhaps yours is gummed up or you're not pushing hard enough?
I mean they are free to move sideways. From what I can remember of an old
Shimano XT derailleur I had, the upper jockey wheel was much the same as
Campag's.
* Avanti 8sp long cage, Xenon 2001 9sp medium, Xenon 2003 9sp long, Racing
T 2001 9sp, Chorus 2003 10sp long
~PB
Pete Biggs
>
>> They do have floating upper jockey wheels.
>
> I checked my 2003 chorus derailleur. The upper jockey wheel does not
> float in/out.
Please check again. You should find that the upper jockey wheel is free
to move sideways somewhat, whereas the lower one is not.
BTW, see http://yarchive.net/bike/derailleurs.html for an alternative
explanation of what float was designed for.
~PB
Donald Gillies
mechanics states that a poor chainline could cause the chain to rub on
the adjoining rear cog when it is on the "A" (small) cog :
http://www.bbinstitute.com/BM5%20chap%2032.pdf
AlanL
Took the bike (repeatedly) to my LBS. They adjusted the derailleur,
adjusted the hanger, re-routed the cables, checked the torque of the
lockring. No improvement.
Finally, they decided that my nearly new Campy Record 10-speed chain
was defective. (I didn't quite get the description of what the problem
was -- something about the spacing...) They threw on the only 10-speed
chain they had in the shop -- a Mavic (which I believe is identical to
the Wipperman 10-speed chain.)
Bingo! The drive train is so quiet that it sounds like there's no chain
at all! Oh yeah!
Thanks to all for your suggestions.
Alan
AlanL
Wayne Pein
Thanks for posting this resolution.
Wayne
Jasper Janssen
>Alan reported:
>>
>> Someone told me that if the cassette lockring is too tight it can
>> scrunch together the smaller cogs slightly, causing some misalignment.
>> Anyone ever heard of that?
>
>Oh, man, who told you that? As Peter C. would say, that's pure
>bugleoil.
If anyone had shifted to carbon or, better yet, plastic spacers to cheaply
save some weight, maybe.
Jasper
russell...@yahoo.com
The official, genuine, from the factory, come in the gray/silver
Campagnolo box with the Campagnolo cassette are plastic. Or some kind
of phenolic I suppose. At least all of the 9 speed spacers that have
come with my Campagnolo cassettes are plastic. An orange tinted
plastic spacer. There is no "shifted" to it. I think bugleoil or
muffler bearings would apply to the tightening the lockring too much
theory.