Short reach brakes on frame designed for long reach brakes
russell...@yahoo.com
them as having a 42-52 mm range. I am considering purchasing a new
sport touring frame and have the option of getting one built for short
reach calipers or long reach calipers. Since I already own the Centaur
calipers I would prefer to use them on the new frame. But I also want
to run 25mm or 28mm tires AND fenders on the rear of the bike. Gilles
Berthoud or Honjo fenders. I can't keep fenders on the front wheel due
to my method of hauling the bike in the trunk of the car with the rear
seat folded down and the bars turned 90 degrees. I would have to put
the front fender on at the start of a multi-day ride. Front tire would
be 23mm or 25mm most likely, with or without fenders.
1. How well will dual pivot short reach brake calipers work on a frame
designed for long reach calipers?
2. What is the largest tire a short reach dual pivot caliper (Centaur)
will fit with a fender?
Note I am defining short reach as what is currently sold in brake
calipers, current Record, Chorus, Dura Ace, etc. Short reach being
approximately 40-50mm range. And defining long reach as the newly
marketed calipers designed for larger tires and fenders. Examples
being Shimano BR-R600 and Nashbar/Tektro Long Reach calipers.
joseph.sa...@gmail.com
I don't know specifics, but having a look at my bike
http://arbitrary.org/centaur.jpg
it seems like things would be pretty tight. Depends upon the bridge
height (notice my pad position), but even with a higher bridge, I think
the width near the center at the pivot might be too tight for fenders
and 25mm tires with room for mud and gunk. The tires in the pic are
23mm Veloflex Pave.
Joseph
andre...@aol.com
Not sure of how well short reach brakes will work with fat tires and
fenders. However, you can get a pair of nice, functional long reach
calipers at nashbar for very little. Here is the link:
http://www.nashbar.com/results.cfm?category=69&subcategory=1014&storetype=&estoreid=&init=y&pagename=
You can then sell you short reach calipers at ebay or the marketplace.
Andres
buckyllama
russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
<snip>
>
> 1. How well will dual pivot short reach brake calipers work on a frame
> designed for long reach calipers?
Not well. short reach are generally 42-52mm range, standard reach are
in the 47-57mm range. If the frame is properly built to take advantage
of the standard reach calipers (set at the bottom of the slot at 57mm),
the short reach calipers will require a drop bolt to reach.
> 2. What is the largest tire a short reach dual pivot caliper (Centaur)
> will fit with a fender?
Again, depends on the frame. My road frame is set up for short reach
calipers (older shimano 105 dual pivots in my case), but set so the
pads are at the bottom of the slot. I can fit a 25mm avocet fasgrip
under a slightly modified fender. But it's very tight. And I had to
notch the sides of the fender to clear the brake arms. Campy brakes
look like they have even less clearance than the shimanos.
If I were you, I'd sell the campy brakes on ebay and use the money to
buy a pair of proper standard reach tektros. If you are even thinking
about touring and fenders, it's worth it.
-Tim
Hank Wirtz
<russell...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1155134249.8...@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
If you really want to use these brakes, get the frame spec'ed for short
reach. You won't gain any clearance if you use these brakes with drop bolts,
which you'd need to do to get the pads to reach the rims.
If you want to preserve the Italian pedigree of the gruppo, Ambrosio sells
some really nice long-reach brakes. For all I know, they may be rebadged
Taiwanese (I don't think they're Tektros, though), but they have an Italian
name on them. I've got a set on my Peugeot, and I like them a whole bunch.
I've run them with 28mm tires and SKS fenders, and 32mm cyclocross tires w/o
fenders.
I don't know of any US dealers, but I got mine from
http://cyclingbargains.com - a UK-based seller. They list for 28 quid, but
minus VAT and plus shipping, I'd guess they're about $65 to get the US. They
come in silver and "carbon finish," which is just painted to look like
carbon, AFAICT.
Definitely not as pretty as your Centaur calipers, but a helluva lot more
useful for the setup you're describing.
russell...@yahoo.com
> russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> <snip>
> >
> > 1. How well will dual pivot short reach brake calipers work on a frame
> > designed for long reach calipers?
>
> Not well. short reach are generally 42-52mm range, standard reach are
> in the 47-57mm range. If the frame is properly built to take advantage
> of the standard reach calipers (set at the bottom of the slot at 57mm),
> the short reach calipers will require a drop bolt to reach.
Didn't think about that. On the bike designed for long reach calipers
if Mercian puts the brake bridge in so its high and uses the full
advantage of the long reach brakes to get as big of a tire as possible
and fenders, then short reach calipers will not fit at all. But on a
long reach caliper designed bike if Mercian puts the brake bridge low
to allow use of a short reach caliper at its limits then the size of
tire and fender is reduced for a long reach caliper. This would sort
of defeat the purpose of having a frame designed for long reach
calipers.
>
> > 2. What is the largest tire a short reach dual pivot caliper (Centaur)
> > will fit with a fender?
>
> Again, depends on the frame. My road frame is set up for short reach
> calipers (older shimano 105 dual pivots in my case), but set so the
> pads are at the bottom of the slot. I can fit a 25mm avocet fasgrip
> under a slightly modified fender. But it's very tight. And I had to
> notch the sides of the fender to clear the brake arms. Campy brakes
> look like they have even less clearance than the shimanos.
25mm tires and fenders would probably be OK for 99% of my intended uses
for the bike but I would want the option of running a 28mm tire and
fenders. Never more than 28mm though on this frame. I have a loaded
touring bike with 35mm tires and fenders.
>
> If I were you, I'd sell the campy brakes on ebay and use the money to
> buy a pair of proper standard reach tektros. If you are even thinking
> about touring and fenders, it's worth it.
But I already own the Centaur brakes and they go with all of the other
Centaur components on the bike. Putting on cheap Tektro or Nashbar
long reach brakes for $30 would be unaesthetic. And the Shimano
BR-R600 long reach brakes are $140 a pair! I suspect cheapness would
win and I'd go for the Nashbar long reach brakes.
>
> -Tim
Jay Beattie
See if you can get drop bolts. That seems to be the only option if you
want the frame designed for long reach calipers -- other than the
non-aesthetic option of Tectro or Shimano, etc., cheap-o long reach
brakes. I would go with that frame design, too, if you expect to run
full fenders with real 25mm or 28mm tires.
Also, does Campy make a Centaur-like standard reach brake? That would
be a mone-spending option. -- Jay Beattie.
JeffWills
Hank Wirtz wrote:
>
> I don't know of any US dealers, but I got mine from
> http://cyclingbargains.com - a UK-based seller. They list for 28 quid, but
> minus VAT and plus shipping, I'd guess they're about $65 to get the US. They
> come in silver and "carbon finish," which is just painted to look like
> carbon, AFAICT.
>
These?
http://www.rainbowinternet.net/shops/cyclingbargains/catalogue/category23/p1081
??
I'll bet you a dollar that they're rebadged Tektros. The shape of the
arms and the pad adjustment look like these:
http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?category=69&subcategory=1014&brand=&sku=11499
Jeff
Mark Hickey
> Putting on cheap Tektro or Nashbar
>long reach brakes for $30 would be unaesthetic.
Other than the lack of the proper "gruppo decal", I don't think
there's much to be lost with the Tektro "nice" long-reach calipers
(the R730, or 521AG, both of which have the same reach as the Shimano
R600, but cost 1/2 to 2/3rds as much). They're really quite nice
looking, IMHO. It would no doubt be a simple thing to remove the
Tektro decals if that is an issue.
Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $795 ti frame
Barnard Frederick
> But I already own the Centaur brakes and they go with all of the other
> Centaur components on the bike. Putting on cheap Tektro or Nashbar
> long reach brakes for $30 would be unaesthetic. And the Shimano
> BR-R600 long reach brakes are $140 a pair! I suspect cheapness would
> win and I'd go for the Nashbar long reach brakes.
But some people who buy bikes with the Tektro stock pay to upgrade to
Shimano, claiming much better braking performance.
joseph.sa...@gmail.com
I'm not saying they are not both made by Tektro, but the two photos
show that the two are significantly different.
Joseph
b...@mambo.ucolick.org
There are or were two different styles of Tektro long
reach brake. The regular flavor looks like the Nashbar
picture, and the extra-sprinkles waffle-cone flavor has
cartridge pads and a nicer barrel adjuster with a rubber
ring, like the R536 (used to be 521A?) here:
http://www.tektro.com/02products/08521ag.php
which looks more like the Ambrosio.
I have one of the 521A extra-sprinkle brakes, used to adapt
an old Cannondale touring frame from 27" to 700c. It
works quite well. However, the original pads were made of
cheese, and I replaced them with Koolstop shimano
cartridges (the cartridge holders are Shimano compatible).
Art Harris
> See if you can get drop bolts. That seems to be the only option if you
> want the frame designed for long reach calipers -- other than the
> non-aesthetic option of Tectro or Shimano, etc., cheap-o long reach
> brakes.
What's cheapo or non-aesthetic about the Shimano R-600 brakes? These
are Ultegra level.
http://www.awcycles.co.uk/products.php?plid=m5b0s100p1338&z=441
Art Harris
Qui si parla Campagnolo
russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> I have 2005 Campagnolo Centaur dual pivot calipers. The catalog lists
> them as having a 42-52 mm range. I am considering purchasing a new
> sport touring frame and have the option of getting one built for short
> reach calipers or long reach calipers. Since I already own the Centaur
> calipers I would prefer to use them on the new frame. But I also want
> to run 25mm or 28mm tires AND fenders on the rear of the bike. Gilles
> Berthoud or Honjo fenders. I can't keep fenders on the front wheel due
> to my method of hauling the bike in the trunk of the car with the rear
> seat folded down and the bars turned 90 degrees. I would have to put
> the front fender on at the start of a multi-day ride. Front tire would
> be 23mm or 25mm most likely, with or without fenders.
>
> 1. How well will dual pivot short reach brake calipers work on a frame
> designed for long reach calipers?
Not well at all, if you want the brake blocks to reach the rims.
> 2. What is the largest tire a short reach dual pivot caliper (Centaur)
> will fit with a fender?
If at all....long reach are for fenders...just step up and buy new
brakes. Long reach Tektros work well and are not expensive.
Mark Hickey
>russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>> Putting on cheap Tektro or Nashbar
>>long reach brakes for $30 would be unaesthetic.
>
>Other than the lack of the proper "gruppo decal", I don't think
>there's much to be lost with the Tektro "nice" long-reach calipers
>(the R730, or 521AG, both of which have the same reach as the Shimano
>R600, but cost 1/2 to 2/3rds as much). They're really quite nice
>looking, IMHO. It would no doubt be a simple thing to remove the
>Tektro decals if that is an issue.
Yes, I'm following up on my own post, but only because I realized I
was comparing single caliper pricing for the R600 brakes to set
pricing for Tektro... which means the cost for the Tektro brakes is
actually 25-30% that of the Shimano R600.
Mark Hickey
And others will pay to "upgrade" to all kinds of other things that
don't actually improve anything (often, just the opposite). I've
certainly never had a negative report on the few bikes that I've sold
with Tektro brakes (normally for those who need long-reach calipers,
but don't want to pay R600 pricing).
I'd actually be quite surprised if there was a "real difference"...
it's all about mechanical advantage and pads, and the brakes look
almost identical in terms of geometry and reach.. Even if the pads
weren't the best (don't know that they're not fine), replace them with
Kool-stop (or other quality brake pad) and there's no reason to
believe the braking performance wouldn't be at least as good as the
more expensive R600 (since they come with pads that aren't generally
as well-liked as the Kool-stop).
Booker C. Bense
In article <MPG.1f446ebe1...@newsgroups.comcast.net>,
In my experience there is no difference between top end Tektro
and shimano, that can't be fixed by new pads[1] and better
cable routing. Tektro brakes work well enough that I don't
feel the need to upgrade. Of course if you spend 4x to get
new brakes they are going to be "better".
_ Booker C. Bense
[1]- The stock pads are terrible, you need to factor in the price
of new pads when comparing brakes.
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russell...@yahoo.com
I looked up the Tektro brakes and the upper levels don't look too bad.
Good enough to go with a wonderful silver Centaur grouppo on a lovely
lugged Mercian.
Nashbar long reach caliper is the Tektro 521A with standard pads.
http://harriscyclery.net/page.cfm?PageID=49&action=details&sku=BR7304
$40 pair.
http://www.nashbar.com/profile_moreimages.cfm?category=69&subcategory=1014&sku=11499&brand=
$30 pair.
Tektro 521AG with cartridge holders is nicer looking with the silver
cartridge holders adn the silver cam quick release.
http://harriscyclery.net/page.cfm?PageID=49&action=details&sku=BR7301
$50 pair.
Tektro R730 are the nicest looking of all, except for the ugly black
cam quick release on an otherwise all silver brake.
http://harriscyclery.net/page.cfm?PageID=49&action=details&sku=BR7308
$64 pair.
And of course the Shimano BR-R600 calipers at $140 pair.
http://www.excelsports.com/new.asp?page=8&description=R600+Brake+Calipers+Long+Reach&vendorCode=SHIM&major=1&minor=7
I suppose the upper level Tektros will look good enough. And at a good
enough price. And I suppose I can maybe replace the ugly black cam
quick release lever on the R730 with the silver one from some Sora
capilers I have sitting around.
Jay Beattie
I have no problem with them. The OP did. They were not "aesthetic."
See above. -- Jay Beattie.
Art Harris
No, he was complaining that the Tektro/Nashbar brakes were
un-aesthetic. He said the R-600 were too expensive.
Actually, I bought a rear R-600 caliper on sale from Nashbar at pretty
good price about a year ago (forget exactly what it was, maybe $30).
Art Harris
landotter
Yup, those are great braking calipers, and even the included brake
shoes are marvelous. Finish sucks, but throw a polishing disk on your
bench grinder and shine them up if that bugs you.
After you flog the Campy stuff on Ebay or Craigslist, you'll end up
with money in your pocket, and a non-kludgy brake setup.
dvt
> I've
> certainly never had a negative report on the few bikes that I've sold
> with Tektro brakes (normally for those who need long-reach calipers,
> but don't want to pay R600 pricing).
What bike(s) do you sell that use long reach calipers? Custom only?
--
Dave
dvt at psu dot edu
Everyone confesses that exertion which brings out all the powers of body
and mind is the best thing for us; but most people do all they can to
get rid of it, and as a general rule nobody does much more than
circumstances drive them to do. -Harriet Beecher Stowe, abolitionist and
novelist (1811-1896)
landotter
b...@mambo.ucolick.org wrote:
[snip]
> I have one of the 521A extra-sprinkle brakes, used to adapt
> an old Cannondale touring frame from 27" to 700c. It
> works quite well. However, the original pads were made of
> cheese, and I replaced them with Koolstop shimano
> cartridges (the cartridge holders are Shimano compatible).
It's funny, like I mentioned in a previous post, I've got the cake-cone
vanilla version that comes with the utilitarian looking molded shoes,
and I like them better than Kool-Stops. I like them so much, that I'm
worried that I won't be able to find replacements when they wear out. I
rode them in the rain for 15 miles yesterday, and was just astonished
at the stopping power.
Jay Beattie
You're right. I was thinking this was just a Campy or nothing kind of
deal (Campy = aesthetic). Lickbike has the R-600 for $130 which seems
like a lot. I would just be unaesthetic and get the Tektro if I wanted
to keep fender clearance. If not, I would get some drop bolts. -- Jay
Beattie.
yoj...@gmail.com
http://www.rivbike.com/webalog/brakes/15094.html
Harris Cyclery has the nicer Tektro 521AG brakes for $50/pair:
and the Shimano R600 Long-reach Dual-Pivot Calipers for $89.95 each
and the Shimano A-550 (RX-100) 47-57 mm Long-reach Dual-Pivot Calipers
$39.95 each
http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/brakes.html#calipers
I have a set of the RX-100 long-reach calipers on one of my bikes,
upgraded with Koolstop salmon pads, and they work very well.
If you want the maximum clearance for caliper brakes, have your bike
designed for the new, ultra-long-reach (55-73mm) Tektro R556 brake:
http://www.tektro.com/02products/08521ag.php
-Jim G
Donald Gillies
traditional-pivot brakes. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think your
only source for these bolts is ebay or a local swap meet.
I don't know why Koolstop doesn't make drop-pads, that would be SO
much simpler ..
- Don Gillies
San Diego, CA
Jay Beattie
Donald Gillies wrote:
> Drop bolts are out of production, both for dual-pivot and
> traditional-pivot brakes. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think your
> only source for these bolts is ebay or a local swap meet.
That's too bad. Maybe I will put my old Campy drop bolts on eBay for a
billion dollars! Except those are for old single pivot brakes. O.K., a
half-billion! -- Jay Beattie.
Mark Hickey
>Mark Hickey wrote:
>> I've
>> certainly never had a negative report on the few bikes that I've sold
>> with Tektro brakes (normally for those who need long-reach calipers,
>> but don't want to pay R600 pricing).
>
>What bike(s) do you sell that use long reach calipers? Custom only?
Yep.
Hank Wirtz
news:1155165110.8...@n13g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
>
> Hank Wirtz wrote:
>>
>> I don't know of any US dealers, but I got mine from
>> http://cyclingbargains.com - a UK-based seller. They list for 28
>> quid, but minus VAT and plus shipping, I'd guess they're about $65 to
>> get the US. They come in silver and "carbon finish," which is just
>> painted to look like carbon, AFAICT.
>>
>
> These?
> http://www.rainbowinternet.net/shops/cyclingbargains/catalogue/categor
y
> 23/p1081 ??
>
> I'll bet you a dollar that they're rebadged Tektros. The shape of the
> arms and the pad adjustment look like these:
> http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?category=69&subcategory=1014
&brand=&
> sku=11499
>
>
> Jeff
>
You owe me a dollar.
I put the Nashbars on the Cannondale I built for my sister-in-law, and
Tektro 521AGs on my brother's Peugeot. Both of those are significantly
different from each other, and even more different from the Ambrosios on
my Peugeot. The Ambrosios have the stiffest arms of the three, and the
Nashbars are the spongiest.The Tektros have the strongest springs, and
the Ambrosios have the lightest.
It would not surprise me in the least if they're Taiwanese, but the arm
shapes, spring attachment points and barrel adjusters all lead me to
believe that they're not Tektros.
dvt
> dvt <dvt+u...@psu.edu> wrote:
>> What bike(s) do you sell that use long reach calipers? Custom only?
> Yep.
Too bad. I might lobby my financier for a Hab sport touring bike, but
I'm not willing to pay the price for a custom frame.
Mark Hickey
>Mark Hickey wrote:
>> dvt <dvt+u...@psu.edu> wrote:
>>> What bike(s) do you sell that use long reach calipers? Custom only?
>
>> Yep.
>
>Too bad. I might lobby my financier for a Hab sport touring bike, but
>I'm not willing to pay the price for a custom frame.
I probably should have been more specific (but didn't want it to come
across like an ad). I often do "non-stock" frames with alterations
like raising the brake bridge height (or leaving off the integral seat
post binders, or using 1-1/8" head tubes, for example) without a
custom up-charge. It's just that we don't have these options "in
stock" at any given time.
MykalCrooks
<yoj...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1155243159.9...@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
What is actual difference between Shimano R600 and Shimano A-550 long reach
calipers? I can see the pads are different, but does anybody know of
differences in metallurgy or design of bearings or bushings?
mC
dvt
> dvt <dvt+u...@psu.edu> wrote:
>
>> Mark Hickey wrote:
>>> dvt <dvt+u...@psu.edu> wrote:
>>>> What bike(s) do you sell that use long reach calipers? Custom only?
>>> Yep.
>> Too bad. I might lobby my financier for a Hab sport touring bike, but
>> I'm not willing to pay the price for a custom frame.
> I probably should have been more specific (but didn't want it to come
> across like an ad).
Even if it would have sounded like an ad, I opened the door.
> I often do "non-stock" frames with alterations
> like raising the brake bridge height (or leaving off the integral seat
> post binders, or using 1-1/8" head tubes, for example) without a
> custom up-charge. It's just that we don't have these options "in
> stock" at any given time.
Very interesting! In that case, I suppose it's tough to draw the line
between "stock" and "custom" bikes.
Sheldon Brown
Not such a good idea, I'm afraid. The threaded attachment of the brake
shoe to the caliper arm is plenty strong against the linear force
applied by braking, but if you were to make a "drop-pad" there would be
heavy _torsional_ loading to the bolt.
Applying torsional loads to single-bolt attachments is not a good
thing. The left side in particular would tend to get loosened by the
braking force.
If the pad were to slip, it would pivot upward so that it would rub on
the sidewall of the tire. This would wreck the tire in very short
order, and also possibly cause brake lockup.
Sheldon "Back To The Drawing Board" Brown
+---------------------------------------------------------+
| "Contrariwise," continued Tweedledee, "if it was so, |
| it might be, and if it were so, it would be; |
| but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic!" |
| --Lewis Carroll, "Through the Looking Glass" |
+---------------------------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
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