Please let the Supergo stories, remembrances, vignettes and anecdotes begin

[retrog...@gmail.com]

Today I pulled my old original and correct Supergo Access MTB from 1987 out of the back room. Biopace chainrings! I'll tell the world!

https://www.dropbox.com/s/m69mvkutsoafd7b/Supergo%20Access.jpg?dl=0

[Joerg]

On 2015-12-30 17:00, retrog...@gmail.com wrote:
> Today I pulled my old original and correct Supergo Access MTB from 1987 out of the back room. Biopace chainrings! I'll tell the world!
>
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/m69mvkutsoafd7b/Supergo%20Access.jpg?dl=0
>

Cool. That pump would probably get you stopped a lot by the authorities
these days. Looks like some mean weapon.

Why on earth did they place the rear brake behind the BB? WRT mud, dirt,
dung, water and all that this is one of the worst places to have a rim
brake caliper.

I still have my old Rockpoint MTB from the late 90's. Glad to have left
the era of rim brakes behind me but I kept it for biz trips and such. Or
when the main MTB is in the sick bay. But I do miss the old 7-speed
system. Cheap yet much more robust that the highfalutin 10-speed Deore
XT on the new MTB. Even after a smattering of decomposed granite
scrunched through there it always works.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

[Doug Landau]

On Wednesday, December 30, 2015 at 5:00:39 PM UTC-8, retrog...@gmail.com wrote:
> Today I pulled my old original and correct Supergo Access MTB from 1987 out of the back room. Biopace chainrings! I'll tell the world!
>
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/m69mvkutsoafd7b/Supergo%20Access.jpg?dl=0

I broke my amp b3 on a jump landing. twice. those things sucked.

[retrog...@gmail.com]

Joerg wrote: Why on earth did they place the rear brake behind the BB? WRT mud, dirt, dung, water and all that this is one of the worst places to have a rim brake caliper.

Supergo did advance some reason as to why that was supposedly a really good place to mount the rear brake caliper, Joerg, but I can't remember what the hell the reason was.

Maybe Andrew will remember that.

[jbeattie]

On Wednesday, December 30, 2015 at 5:18:20 PM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
> On 2015-12-30 17:00, retrog...@gmail.com wrote:
> > Today I pulled my old original and correct Supergo Access MTB from 1987 out of the back room. Biopace chainrings! I'll tell the world!
> >
> > https://www.dropbox.com/s/m69mvkutsoafd7b/Supergo%20Access.jpg?dl=0
> >
>
> Cool. That pump would probably get you stopped a lot by the authorities
> these days. Looks like some mean weapon.
>
> Why on earth did they place the rear brake behind the BB? WRT mud, dirt,
> dung, water and all that this is one of the worst places to have a rim
> brake caliper.

That rear U-brake placement was popular on the cheap mountain bikes that year. Bridgestone did the same thing, and in fact, the Supergo (fka Bikecology) Access looks just like a re-branded MB4. http://www.sheldonbrown.com/bridgestone/1988/pages/bridgestone-1988-08.htm

And you're right -- it was a mud and leaf collector and a bad design.

-- Jay Beattie.

[Sir Ridesalot]

Roller cam brakes under the chainstays were even worse than U-brakes because you needed the brass rollers to turn to get the best braking.

I remember early Cannondal MTBs with the 26" front wheel, 24" rear wheel and U-brakes or roller cam brakes under the chainstays.

My single speed (niot a fixed gear) mtb has one along with a 12" long handlebar. It's great for getting through tight spaces!

Cheers

[avag...@gmail.com]

On Wednesday, December 30, 2015 at 8:00:39 PM UTC-5, retrog...@gmail.com wrote:
> Today I pulled my old original and correct Supergo Access MTB from 1987 out of the back room. Biopace chainrings! I'll tell the world!
>
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/m69mvkutsoafd7b/Supergo%20Access.jpg?dl=0

tires ?

[retrog...@gmail.com]

Clean Gene inquired: "tires"?

You got me on that one, Gene! I forgot, the Bontrager knobbies aren't original, are they?

[AMuzi]

In my role as historian here, it's always true that 'nothing
changes fashion faster than fashion'.

Popular mid-1980s MTB designs with rear cantilevers suffered
from seat stay flex so the under-chainstays U-brake was
developed by Charlie Cunningham. Later popularized by
Shimano, Campagnolo and DiaCompe-Suntour with various small
permutations. Besides being mounted on the more substantial
chainstay, the brazed mounts are larger diameter as well.

and then - wait for it - yes! fashion changed and they all
but disappeared from offroad bikes in a few short years.

That brake design remains current on 20" freestyle bikes.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[AMuzi]

And not just "cheap mountain bikes".

Panasonic Team, Italian built Columbus tube Bianchis and
actually filleted by Tom Himself Ritcheys had the same brake
mounts.

[jbeattie]

Fascinating. I wondered what the design rationale was. The direct mount, chainstay brakes came back in spades a year or so ago (Trek, Felt, Orbea, Scott, Look) . . . and then disappeared again. I always thought it was an aero thing and never considered the increased braking power/reduced stay flex benefit. When I saw a Madone a year or so ago with those brakes, I just groaned and figured it was another way of differentiating the Trek product in a crowded market. I think road discs are that way now -- at least on bikes that can't take fenders and won't be used in the rain (much). I think there is actually an aero penalty with road discs, too. In wet and crappy conditions, though, discs are great.

I had a Bridgestone MB4, and the brakes were always packed full of crap. I got that bike as a snow commuter and my first (and only) mountain bike. I hated it for a number of reasons (weighed a ton and no more trail worthy than my later purchased CX bike) and ultimately gave it away to the Community Cycling Center. I would like to get a real mountain bike one day.


-- Jay Beattie.

[Frank Krygowski]

On 12/31/2015 9:10 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>
> In my role as historian here, it's always true that 'nothing changes
> fashion faster than fashion'.
>
> Popular mid-1980s MTB designs with rear cantilevers suffered from seat
> stay flex so the under-chainstays U-brake was developed by Charlie
> Cunningham. Later popularized by Shimano, Campagnolo and
> DiaCompe-Suntour with various small permutations. Besides being mounted
> on the more substantial chainstay, the brazed mounts are larger diameter
> as well.
>
> and then - wait for it - yes! fashion changed and they all but
> disappeared from offroad bikes in a few short years.
>
> That brake design remains current on 20" freestyle bikes.
>

An old college friend brought his (1990?) Trek mountain bike over last
week, for help changing a shift cable. The bike had the under-chainstay
U-brake.

I noticed one of the rear brake shoes was dragging. Turned out the
kickstand he installed was smashing in on the brake's transverse cable.

So, another disadvantage for kickstand lovers.

--
- Frank Krygowski

[Sir Ridesalot]

On Thursday, December 31, 2015 at 10:28:42 AM UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote:
Snipped

> An old college friend brought his (1990?) Trek mountain bike over last
> week, for help changing a shift cable. The bike had the under-chainstay
> U-brake.
>
> I noticed one of the rear brake shoes was dragging. Turned out the
> kickstand he installed was smashing in on the brake's transverse cable.
>
> So, another disadvantage for kickstand lovers.
>
> --
> - Frank Krygowski

You have very interesting friends. He couldn't figure out that a shifter cable was being snagged by a kickstand? Or he never realized a brake shoe was dragging thus slowing him down?

Cheers

[AMuzi]

Kickstands can also impede the new rear gear wires which go
under the chainstay. I know because I did that once.

D'oh!

[AMuzi]

Most of Frank's 'idiot consumer with bicycle' stories ring
true for those of us who deal with that sort of thing every day.

for example, let's assume a stolen bike with a front flat.
Some geniuses would simply steal a rear wheel and jam that
in the fork:

http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfromthepast/frontrea.jpg

On a more mundane note, that QR is, typically, not locked.
Your average guy screws it down sorta without using the cam.
I could go on.

[Frank Krygowski]

Well, it was his brake's transverse cable that was being pushed in by
the kickstand, not his shift cable. The shift cable had a different
problem. I think he didn't realize his brake was dragging at all. He
probably rides no more than 20 miles per year.

This guy is yet another Electrical Engineer friend of mine, so that
makes three EEs that I know who are easily baffled by bike mechanical
problems. The odd part with this guy is that when we were in college,
we did lots of automobile mechanical work together. (We had nearly
identical cars.) We attended sports car races and the Indy 500
together. I thought of him as a decent mechanic.

I think it's just proof that what's obvious to one person is beyond the
skill set of another. It's not an intelligence thing; it's background
knowledge, interest, and individual differences.

FWIW, I'm sure there are many excellent bike mechanics who could never
earn a degree in electrical engineering.


--
- Frank Krygowski

[Frank Krygowski]

I'm sure we all have our "D'oh!" stories!

--
- Frank Krygowski

[jbeattie]

This is true to a degree. However, some issues are eminently obvious -- like a kickstand interfering with a brake cable. You flip the bike over, and there it is.

I think these people know you are a repair sucker and will do the work. "You know, Frank, my bike has all these problems, and I can't figure them out. Could you help me? And could you clean and wax the bike and have it back to me by noon. Thanks."

-- Jay Beattie.

[Andrew Chaplin]

AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote in news:n63ok4$88c$1...@dont-email.me:

> On 12/31/2015 10:05 AM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
>>
>> You have very interesting friends. He couldn't figure out that a
>> shifter cable was being snagged by a kickstand? Or he never realized a
>> brake shoe was dragging thus slowing him down?
>

> Most of Frank's 'idiot consumer with bicycle' stories ring
> true for those of us who deal with that sort of thing every day.
>
> for example, let's assume a stolen bike with a front flat.
> Some geniuses would simply steal a rear wheel and jam that
> in the fork:
>
> http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfromthepast/frontrea.jpg

Oh. Dear.

> On a more mundane note, that QR is, typically, not locked.
> Your average guy screws it down sorta without using the cam.
> I could go on.

Yes, I did see that and I cringed.
--
Andrew Chaplin
SIT MIHI GLADIUS SICUT SANCTO MARTINO
(If you're going to e-mail me, you'll have to get "yourfinger." out.)

[retrog...@gmail.com]

I forgot to mention that back in '87 Bikecology billed the Access as the first affordable high-quality MTB; indeed, a veritable Model T of a bike. That's why I bought one. Like the original buyers of the Model T, I couldn't afford a more expensive MTB at the time.

[AMuzi]

On 12/31/2015 1:03 PM, retrog...@gmail.com wrote:
> I forgot to mention that back in '87 Bikecology billed the Access as the first affordable high-quality MTB; indeed, a veritable Model T of a bike. That's why I bought one. Like the original buyers of the Model T, I couldn't afford a more expensive MTB at the time.
>

Maybe. Or possibly a Diamond Back Axis with Supergo graphics:

http://www.mtb-news.de/forum/attachments/diamond-back-axis1-1-von-1-jpg.412460/

or a rebadged Diamond Back Apex:
http://fcdn.mtbr.com/attachments/vintage-retro-classic/631822d1312775170-1987-diamondback-arrival-gedc1027.jpg

or any of a few dozen similar machines.

[avag...@gmail.com]

Franko is an M.E. Is like an MD ceptin' M.E.'s doah get to practice.

https://www.google.com/#tbm=nws&q=florida+woman+3+YEAR+OLD

own kids own a bicycle own an airplane .....

yeah, gotta watch the drag coefficient on MTB frames ...wudnah wanna get caught with a boat anchor.

I wuz wondering what tires and what treads came with ante diluvium MTB ...
at 6'4" real MTB, actually an cyclocrosser here set for long chain stays , visavee real road framing, only arrives o the gravel or dirt where my mind unconsciously reminds me that otherwise I'd be down.

I was in a near fatal Florida type accident yesterday between Walmart and Home Depot on Airport Pulling road lets see ....

I'm behind the silver car on the left but first in line after coasting up to a
yellow light.

I was aware of the danger but figured having coasted up to the yellow then I was safe. Missing the Ford's approach, assembling this from a subliminal memory before impact.
NOT !
https://goo.gl/XjzQCO

TO THE RIGHT OF THE X....a tool loaded very late model Ford pickup ran the light in the turn lane slamming into a RED BMW Mini Estate Wagon driven by a blondy older model type.

Early celebrant

https://goo.gl/E0rLcn

WHAM parts debris showered across us pickup curving off across our bow abt 25' away making his intended turn..wuhwuhwuh....with both airborne at the impact...Mini coming to rest in the median outside my door.

And if the Mini was a bicycle....forgetaboutit.

Pickup, minus a wheel or two stopped on the grass over on the berm to our right.

EYEYYEHAHHAHHAHHAH ! but officer I was only going 135......

Pickup driver did a nice job of not killing us sitting in the opposite bound lane. Thanks. Have a Goodyear....

This is my second yellow light collision first in Utah in the zone before the newburbs start. Yellow light, woman drove thru yellow , I stopped looked around everyone kinda leaning over the wheel counting 1-2-3 when a woman driving a coupe appeared at 35 over on the far side, a comin up the turn lane Ricardo slamming into the yellow ight woman part flying cars spinning.

Happened to me in Palm Beach. Woman turned right on red, I tried to get away she followed me n ran into me.

[Sir Ridesalot]

On Thursday, December 31, 2015 at 12:31:15 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
Snipped

> for example, let's assume a stolen bike with a front flat.
> Some geniuses would simply steal a rear wheel and jam that
> in the fork:
>
> http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfromthepast/frontrea.jpg

Don't some if the uiditabike racers use a rear wheel up fronin case their cassette or freewheel on the regular rear wheel dies? i'm sure i've seen images of such a setup.

Cheers

[AMuzi]

Sure. And wheels with Cinelli Bivalent hubs can go front or
back too.

This is not that

[avag...@gmail.com]

https://goo.gl/xmWtHF

why ?

say, have ohot description of bikes with all this stuff....ring collapsible ect ect on one frame...as a thing to do...

extreme mechanical idiosychrosy

[John B.]

An innovation perhaps? Replace the handle bars with a set of pedals
and one could have an "all wheel drive" bike. A "two by" :-)
--
cheers,

John B.

[retrog...@gmail.com]

Andrew the Historian wrote: "Maybe. Or possibly a Diamond Back Axis with Supergo graphics:

>
> http://www.mtb-news.de/forum/attachments/diamond-back-axis1-1-von-1-jpg.412460/
>
> or a rebadged Diamond Back Apex:
> http://fcdn.mtbr.com/attachments/vintage-retro-classic/631822d1312775170-1987-diamondback-arrival-gedc1027.jpg
>
> or any of a few dozen similar machines.

Wow, they really do look just like the Access, Andrew. So who do you think actually made the frame?

[retrog...@gmail.com]

As you can see, the Access's frame is of welded lugless construction and the tubing used was Columbus CroMor.

[Frank Krygowski]

On 12/31/2015 1:40 PM, jbeattie wrote:
> On Thursday, December 31, 2015 at 9:56:54 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>
>>
>> I think it's just proof that what's obvious to one person is beyond the
>> skill set of another. It's not an intelligence thing; it's background
>> knowledge, interest, and individual differences.
>
> This is true to a degree. However, some issues are eminently obvious -- like a
kickstand interfering with a brake cable. You flip the bike over, and
there it is.

True. If it occurs to you to flip the bike over. In his case, he
didn't realize a brake was dragging, so he didn't even think to look. I
had the experience to realize that a quiet scraping or squeaking sound
when rolling a bike is abnormal.

--
- Frank Krygowski

[sms]

On 12/30/2015 5:18 PM, Joerg wrote:
> On 2015-12-30 17:00, retrog...@gmail.com wrote:
>> Today I pulled my old original and correct Supergo Access MTB from
>> 1987 out of the back room. Biopace chainrings! I'll tell the world!
>>
>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/m69mvkutsoafd7b/Supergo%20Access.jpg?dl=0
>>
>
> Cool. That pump would probably get you stopped a lot by the authorities
> these days. Looks like some mean weapon.

<snip>

I had a Fuji Sundance mountain bike with U brakes. A real PITA. They
were very touchy to get exactly adjusted.

Gave it away to "Trips for Kids"
<http://tripsforkids.org/marin/donatebikes.htm> when I stopped mountain
biking when my kids were small. Now I have a newer Marin mountain bike
and just got the spousal unit a mountain bike. Lots of riding around
where we live now.

[Joerg]

For freestylers it's probably a good idea. The brake is out of the way
and thus offers less chance to get hurt if a stunt goes wrong. But MTB?
This is the location that gets the most dirty on my MTB. Often to the
point where there is a pound or two of mud-gravel dough packed up so
tight that the rear wheel won't turn anymore. The miles before that
point would ruin the rim thoroughly with such a brake.

Luckily good MTB nowadays have disc brakes. Yesterday those came in
handy. A buddy and I rode fat bikes on snow, ice, slush and dirt for the
first time. We had a blast. Some of the downhill sections were white
knuckle rides with rear-brake controlled deliberate slides into snow
banks that I wouldn't have dared with rim brakes.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

[sms]

On 1/1/2016 8:01 AM, Joerg wrote:

> Luckily good MTB nowadays have disc brakes. Yesterday those came in
> handy. A buddy and I rode fat bikes on snow, ice, slush and dirt for the
> first time. We had a blast. Some of the downhill sections were white
> knuckle rides with rear-brake controlled deliberate slides into snow
> banks that I wouldn't have dared with rim brakes.

Disc brakes have worked their way down to all but the crappiest
department store mountain bikes. Most any mountain bike with a street
price of $250 or more will have disc brakes, though between street
prices of $250-$400 they will likely be mechanical, not hydraulic.

I.e., you can buy an entry level 29er mountain bike from Nashbar, with
mechanical discs, for $225. Is it "good?" Probably not for you, but for
the way most people ride mountain bikes it's adequate.

[Joerg]

Got to try it out first. When I rode the Mongoose Deception a friend had
bought from Walmart the mechanical disc brakes were lousy. No adequate
stopping power. Even after lots of hard stop-and-go cycles nothing at
all improved.

Although I prefer hydraulics I have seen some adequate mechanical disc
brakes that were ok. But rim brakes, no way. They are just no good on an
MTB that is used for all-weather riding. Whenever my road bike gives up,
if it ever does before my earthly body does, I'd replace it with a
cyclocross titanium bike with disc brakes.

Of course, since my ride yesterday I also want a fat bike :-)

[avag...@gmail.com]

a quiet scraping or squeaking sound when rolling a bike is abnormal.

...not to pile on but the low investment costs of off the wall ideas brings out the wurst in people.

[avag...@gmail.com]

ah yes that's a MONGOOSE DECEPTION

had me fooled for a moment .....


http://forums.roadbikereview.com/general-cycling-discussion/coolest-bicycle-names-worst-23249.html

[AMuzi]

They missed the best tire brand name ever; Dae Yung

[avag...@gmail.com]

Ken Da 3 rib

[Joerg]

On 2015-12-31 12:04, AMuzi wrote:
> On 12/31/2015 1:03 PM, retrog...@gmail.com wrote:
>> I forgot to mention that back in '87 Bikecology billed the Access as
>> the first affordable high-quality MTB; indeed, a veritable Model T of
>> a bike. That's why I bought one. Like the original buyers of the Model
>> T, I couldn't afford a more expensive MTB at the time.
>>
>
> Maybe. Or possibly a Diamond Back Axis with Supergo graphics:
>
> http://www.mtb-news.de/forum/attachments/diamond-back-axis1-1-von-1-jpg.412460/
>
>
> or a rebadged Diamond Back Apex:
> http://fcdn.mtbr.com/attachments/vintage-retro-classic/631822d1312775170-1987-diamondback-arrival-gedc1027.jpg
>
>
> or any of a few dozen similar machines.
>

Back then most of them had these loud colors. Here is my old MTB from
the late 90's:

http://www.analogconsultants.com/ng/bike/Oldmtb2.JPG

Still have it, to take along on biz trips or on rides where bike theft
is a concern. Those Maxxis 1040N tires are better than most of the
newfangled 29" tires, much more sturdy and way better sidewalls. But the
rim brakes are horrid.

The new MTB is white. Beats me why they chose that color. It always
looks dirty. Then again maybe MTBs are supposed to look mud-splattered.

[AMuzi]

I think that purple bike is newer, after U-Brakes, about
1992~94 yes?

[Joerg]

I bought it either in 1997 or 1998 but it is possible that they were
sold for several years before that. Good old steel frame. To me the only
rim brakes worth a dime are those where the cable comes in sideways and
then crosses above to the other side, usually with some bellows
protecting it from mud splatters in the middle. Not sure what they are
called. But nothing beats hydraulic disc brakes.

This is my current ride in its average state of cleanliness:

http://www.analogconsultants.com/ng/bike/Muddy3.JPG

Sometimes the brake calipers are so caked in mud that they can't even be
seen yet they do their job as if that was nothing.

[avag...@gmail.com]

mud ! does brown know of this ?

[Frank Krygowski]

On 1/1/2016 11:01 AM, Joerg wrote:
>
> Luckily good MTB nowadays have disc brakes. Yesterday those came in
> handy. A buddy and I rode fat bikes on snow, ice, slush and dirt for the
> first time. We had a blast. Some of the downhill sections were white
> knuckle rides with rear-brake controlled deliberate slides into snow
> banks that I wouldn't have dared with rim brakes.

Ah, we're now back to the good old "Joerg the superhero, you can't
believe how risky it is where I ride!!!" Nice to be on familiar
territory again.


--
- Frank Krygowski

[Benz Ouyang]

On Thursday, December 31, 2015 at 9:31:15 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
>
> for example, let's assume a stolen bike with a front flat.
> Some geniuses would simply steal a rear wheel and jam that
> in the fork:
>
> http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfromthepast/frontrea.jpg

No, no, no. That was merely the prototype for the Surly Pugsley.

[Joy Beeson]

On Fri, 1 Jan 2016 10:20:45 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

> I
> had the experience to realize that a quiet scraping or squeaking sound
> when rolling a bike is abnormal.

I don't know how many times I've stopped along the road thinking
"what's that sound?". I'm likely to get back on the bike as baffled
as I was when I got off, and when I find the noise it's usually
something like two metal objects in my pocket, but there have been a
few times that I was *very* glad that I investigated.

Seems to me that this is something we can *tell* beginners, but I
suppose it won't sink in until a quiet tink tink tink has been
followed by a loud crunch.

--
joy beeson at comcast dot net
http://wlweather.net/PAGEJOY/
The above message is a Usenet post.
I don't recall having given anyone permission to use it on a Web site.

[avag...@gmail.com]

JUST FINE NOT IN Ohio DURING JANUARY .....

[Joerg]

What would be so heroic about that ride? Other than maybe the fact that
at least two dozen parties were doing target practice with rifles left
and right into the forest. It sounded like a war movie. Kapow, poof,
pop-pop-pop-pop, bam, the whole time. Most city folks would likely have
freaked.

[Doug Landau]

http://www.bendbulletin.com/localstate/3861872-151/california-ranch-takes-gov-jerry-brown-off-the#

[Joerg]

Quote "The outhouse is a 200-foot walk from the cabin ...". That's not
so cool in case of a sudden onset of diarrhea :-)